Million dollar challenge not ending!

[Azrael 5]

I met Randi today at Blackpool magician's convention and during an interview with him he told me the great news the challenge is to continue,he hopes forever.
He changed his mind after hearing psychics were cliaming it as a victory of sorts. :)


Just to add he was a very friendly humourous chap! ;)

[Roadtoad]

Good! Now let's REALLY put the screws to these creeps!

I say, if it's at all possible, we find a way to boost the prize to $5,000,000. Randi can use the money, and the psychics can look even more foolish!

[arthwollipot]

I'll wait for the official announcement. If such a decision has indeed been made, it will undoubtedly be announced on the SWIFT blog.

[sgf8]

I heard Randi say this a few weeks ago. I can't remember where, I think it was on the SGU podcast? And I don't know if it was weeks ago, but not days ago. I do remember him saying it though. But I would not give my first born son, or even one of my stupid cats that are not toilet training correctly.

Susan

[JoeTheJuggler]

Good! Now let's REALLY put the screws to these creeps!

I say, if it's at all possible, we find a way to boost the prize to $5,000,000. Randi can use the money, and the psychics can look even more foolish!

Rather than that, I'd like to see an aggressive media campaign to go after some of the usual suspects. Full page ads in the NY Times (and elsewhere) or even cheap TV ads "calling out" Sylvia Browne, for example.

I'd donate money to that cause!

[Chris H]

I'd be interested to see confirmation of this.

Chris

[Georg]

That would be great news indeed!

[athon]

I'd be curious to know what the real reason would be. Randi knew from the beginning that abandoning the challenge would be construed as such, but felt the money would be better spent elsewhere. At least, that was the reasoning.

I'll also wait to hear more about it before forming any opinions.

Athon

[Azrael 5]

I'd be interested to see confirmation of this.

Chris

What confirmation do you need? James Randi himself told me and I don't lie.;)

[Roadtoad]

Whichever way it goes, one thing has been shown to differentiate Randi from the Woos: Randi will examine the facts and react rationally to them. The Woos will hear the word "fact," and react in immediate opposition to them.

[sgf8]

Rather than that, I'd like to see an aggressive media campaign to go after some of the usual suspects. Full page ads in the NY Times (and elsewhere) or even cheap TV ads "calling out" Sylvia Browne, for example.

I'd donate money to that cause!

The idea of newspaper ads has been out there for awhile, even Randi announced that he wanted to go this way. But I think the problem is those nasty lawyers, they don't think it is a good idea for some reason. If it is done it will be done with all caution possible.

I would love to see it also. I think a picture of Randi thumbing his nose at Browne and friends would be priceless!

Susan

[Chris H]

Seems it's now official.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Chris

[arthwollipot]

You bastard.

[jhunter1163]

First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. Best idea Shakespeare ever had.

(NB: All, that is, except those that are JREF forum posters.)

[Gord_in_Toronto]

First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. Best idea Shakespeare ever had.

(NB: All, that is, except those that are JREF forum posters.)

It was Shakespeare's character Dick the Butcher in who's mouth Shakespeare put those words. Dick, a Bad Guy, was proposing it to do away with the Rule of Law which is defended and supported by the presence of lawyers.

It does not mean what you think it means. :mad:

[JoeTheJuggler]

I don't see how the legal problems would be different in a paid ad compared to the sort of thing Randi has already said in public.

Again, an ad going over the facts with regard to Sylvia Browne should present no legal problems.

She accepted the challenge; she accepted a protocol; the prize money is real; her claims about helping with missing children's cases are demonstrably false; etc.

ETA: It may even be possible to get a well written piece run as an op-ed article.

[MattusMaximus]

Seems it's now official.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Chris

:D

[Sherman Bay]

What confirmation do you need? James Randi himself told me and I don't lie.;)Neither do I, and I saw a flying saucer yesterday.

[Azrael 5]

He took some persuading to tell me,but I think we came to an agreement
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dokkenboots/3323536785/

[Roadtoad]

I'll buy that if Randi shows up at TAM still in them.

[TX50]

He took some persuading to tell me,but I think we came to an agreement
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dokkenboots/3323536785/

I'm surprised he stayed in them long enough for you to take a photo. :D

[Azrael 5]

Just coming back to this thread,since I got the info from horse's mouth(sorry Mr Randi :D) has it been officially confirmed the MDC is continuing?

[Chris H]

Not yet, as far as I'm aware.

[Safe-Keeper]

I wonder how many people the MDC has really convinced. Similar challenges exist to attack things we believe in, and we don't lend them much credence.

For example, there's a $250 000 prize out to anyone who can prove the Theory of Evolution. We don't care, as we know evolution is true, so it's far easier for us to believe that the challenge is a load of bull (which indeed it is). I fear it'd be similarly easy for a believer in the supernatural to shrug off the MDC. "There's no money". "He's never going to pay up". Et cetera, et cetera. Who do you trust the most as a believer in, say, spirit reading - some random "narrow-minded cynic" on the Web who says the prize is real, or your trusted circle of spirit reading friends, as well as the people doing the readings, who say it's hokum?

[Abooga]

Great news! Now I´d love to know what to do to get the MDC to be known in spanish speaking countries... nobody´s ever heard about it over here.

(back to lurking mode)

[MikeSun5]

Good! Now let's REALLY put the screws to these creeps!

I say, if it's at all possible, we find a way to boost the prize to $5,000,000. Randi can use the money, and the psychics can look even more foolish!

Seconding this. Unfortunately in this day and age with the news constantly quoting figures in the billions, $1,000,000 might not be enough to shake the big trees.

Randi wanted to bust the high-profile con artists, but Sylvia Browne and her peers are making way more than the MDC off their lemming-like followers. If I was making hundreds of thousands of dollars every year, would I blow my entire reputation for a $1M? No I would not.

$5 million...? We could talk.

[NiallM]

I don't see how the legal problems would be different in a paid ad compared to the sort of thing Randi has already said in public.

Again, an ad going over the facts with regard to Sylvia Browne should present no legal problems.

She accepted the challenge; she accepted a protocol; the prize money is real; her claims about helping with missing children's cases are demonstrably false; etc.

ETA: It may even be possible to get a well written piece run as an op-ed article.

The difference could be that a published ad drags in lots more people with potential liability - including the newspaper itself.

[The Professor]

So is this true or just dribble?

[Roadtoad]

So is this true or just dribble?

It's probably true.

You just dribble.

[jasonpatterson]

Regarding the 5MDC idea, this seems like a silly use of funds to me. If someone is unwilling to be tested for $1M, they won't allow testing for any amount of money. Anyone who is convinced by the argument that $1M isn't worth the psychic's time would be just as easily convinced by the same argument regarding $5M. In the meantime, the additional $4M would be just as stuck as the $1M is currently. A million dollars is still a lot of money regardless of who is being tested. Maybe if Bill Gates started claiming psychic powers I'd buy the argument that the prize wasn't worth the trouble, but otherwise, no way.

[Roadtoad]

Jason, you DO understand, don't you, that JREF derives some of it's operational budget from interest paid on the million?

[jasonpatterson]

Of course I do, however, the primary reason for ending the MDC was to free up that money for other purposes. Encumbering additional funds to sit as an odd sort of endowment seems to be a fairly radical shift in opinion. Again, the argument that someone would refuse a million dollars because it wasn't worth their time but would jump at five is flawed.

[Denver]

If the money sitting on the sidelines is the issue, perhaps the payout could be restructured: $x amount per year, for n years. That would allow needing less immediately available for distribution, and more for investment and other uses.

[MikeSun5]

Of course I do, however, the primary reason for ending the MDC was to free up that money for other purposes. Encumbering additional funds to sit as an odd sort of endowment seems to be a fairly radical shift in opinion. Again, the argument that someone would refuse a million dollars because it wasn't worth their time but would jump at five is flawed.

How can the argument be flawed when I just said I'd do it? :D

[VisionFromFeeling]

Yay! I still get to do it! ;)

I say, if it's at all possible, we find a way to boost the prize to $5,000,000. Randi can use the money, and the psychics can look even more foolish!Yay! And I get to look even more foolish! :)

[Czarcasm]

So is this true or just dribble?The topic at hand, or your post?

[The Professor]

So none of you know if it's true or not? Even after all of this?

[jasonpatterson]

It would appear that none of us do. I personally have no reason to distrust the OP-er, but then again, you'd think that something like this would have been announced more broadly, or perhaps confirmed or denied by a person in power within JREF, rather than batted about by us. I think mostly we're having fun arguing...

[Roadtoad]

So none of you know if it's true or not? Even after all of this?

Why would it matter to you, Professor? You have yet to write out a rational protocol for your own challenge, you have yet to comply with reasonable requests from JREF for what would or would not qualify as a hit, and when you're called on your ill considered behavior, you spam other boards and slander James Randi. Frankly, I would think this would be a non-starter for you. You aren't willing to act in a manner that suggests you're willing to deal in good faith, and in turn, when you're shown to be doing this, you lie about it.

So, no, we don't as yet know, and a great deal of this is conjecture, but at the same time, the majority of those posting are more interested in what's best, rather than stroking our own egos.

[daSkeptic]

Why would it matter to you, Professor?

Because he's a troll. You're giving him far too much credit if you think his MDC application was genuine. As with Callahan, he makes a post and suddenly everyone's in a frenzy. Hell, people even follow him to the Magic Cafe just to stay involved. THAT is why it matters to him. He knows he has an effect on people and he enjoys it. It's a power-trip.

[Azrael 5]

Because he's a troll. You're giving him far too much credit if you think his MDC application was genuine. As with Callahan, he makes a post and suddenly everyone's in a frenzy.

Bolding mine.Exaggerating much?

Hell, people even follow him to the Magic Cafe just to stay involved. THAT is why it matters to him. He knows he has an effect on people and he enjoys it. It's a power-trip.

Not a good effect though, and people only "follow him" -if they do-to point out his innacuricies and lies. Laughing at him not with him.

[daSkeptic]

Not a good effect though, and people only "follow him" -if they do-to point out his innacuricies and lies. Laughing at him not with him.

It doesn't matter. Any response and he wins. Even just me discussing him right now, he wins. If you want him to lose, ignore him. Just be quiet and eventually he'll get bored and go away.

[Roma]

Apparently Dr.Colin Ross thinks he can still win it.

And he wants the James Randi Educational Foundation to stop picking on him too. :dig:

DPK Public Relations is a PR firm serving clients in the Houston, Dallas and Fort Worth metropolitan areas

14-Apr-09 8:00 AM CST

Dr. Colin Ross Expects to Have the Last Laugh,
Accepts Tongue-in-Cheek “Award” from James Randi Educational Foundation
DALLAS, April 14, 2009 –

Noted psychiatrist and author Colin A. Ross, M.D., whose research into a new science and medicine focused on the human body’s electromagnetic field is described in his new book, Human Energy Fields (ISBN-13: 978-0-9821851-0-0), is proving to have a good sense of humor. He has accepted the “Pigasus Award” *) from the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) (www.randi.org) with a smile.

The Pigasus Award is given each year, “To the scientist or academic who said or did the silliest thing related to the supernatural, paranormal or occult.” Dr. Ross’ 2009 Pigasus Award stems from his ability to focus his own electromagnetic field to send a beam of energy from his eyes and make a tone sound out of a speaker. He has applied to the One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge administered by the JREF.

The JREF has ridiculed Dr. Ross since he filed his challenge application. James Randi wrote on his web page: “You think you’ve seen every sort of claim that could be thrown at the JREF…. Most have been preposterous, silly, irrational, and/or astonishing. Now we have one that is all of those…Dr. Colin A. Ross.”

“I am not the first unconventional thinker who has had to endure the snickering of cynics and skeptics, so I happily accept this recognition,” said Dr. Ross. “Every significant scientific advance faces resistance, but it is time that the JREF stop ridiculing me and tests the protocol.”

Dr. Ross says his claim is a testable scientific hypothesis for which he has solid evidence. He explains on the Colin A. Ross Institute Web site (www.rossinst.com) that the energy emitted through his eyes is electromagnetic (EM) energy in the 0-40 Hz frequency range with amplitude in the 0-50 micro-volts range. These are the same brain waves that emerge through the skull. Dr. Ross captures this energy with an electrode and neurofeedback equipment. The software plays a tone in response to detecting the EM energy emerging through his eyes.

The JREF has accepted Dr. Ross’ challenge as a claim of the paranormal, insisting that no energy is emitted from the eyes.
Other 2009 Pigasus awardees include the producers of Ben Stein’s film, “Expelled,” and actress Jenny McCarthy for promoting her view that vaccines are contributing to the increase in autism in the United States.

*) The awards are announced via telepathy, winners are allowed to predict their victories, and the Flying Pig trophies are sent via psychokinesis by the James Randi Edicational Foundation: "We send; if they don't receive, that's probably due to their lack of paranormal talent".

Links:
Swift article on Dr. Ross : http://www.randi.org/site/swift-blog/211-swift-august-22-2008.html#i4
Dallas Observer Article 1: http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2008/07/does_colin_ross_also_know_wolv.php
Dallas Observer Article 2: http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2008/08/colin_ross_has_an_eyebeam_of_e.php

[JoeTheJuggler]

The difference could be that a published ad drags in lots more people with potential liability - including the newspaper itself.
The newspaper and publisher could easily protect themselves with a simple disclaimer. "Paid advertisement. Views expressed do not necessarily reflect.. ."

If liability worked the way you said, then none of the outlandish claims made in ads, political ads, infomercials and the like would be possible. For example, when the FDA goes after someone for making unsubstantiated claims about a supplement, they don't go after the media used to make those claims.

Further, one local news program here has taken on Sylvia Browne (http://stopsylvia.com/articles/email_kmovtv.shtml). I would think real journalists would at the very least be sympathetic to JREF in something like this.

[The Professor]

Apparently Dr.Colin Ross thinks he can still win it.

And he wants the James Randi Educational Foundation to stop picking on him too. :dig:

DPK Public Relations is a PR firm serving clients in the Houston, Dallas and Fort Worth metropolitan areas

14-Apr-09 8:00 AM CST

Dr. Colin Ross Expects to Have the Last Laugh,
Accepts Tongue-in-Cheek “Award” from James Randi Educational Foundation
DALLAS, April 14, 2009 –

Noted psychiatrist and author Colin A. Ross, M.D., whose research into a new science and medicine focused on the human body’s electromagnetic field is described in his new book, Human Energy Fields (ISBN-13: 978-0-9821851-0-0), is proving to have a good sense of humor. He has accepted the “Pigasus Award” *) from the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) (www.randi.org) with a smile.

The Pigasus Award is given each year, “To the scientist or academic who said or did the silliest thing related to the supernatural, paranormal or occult.” Dr. Ross’ 2009 Pigasus Award stems from his ability to focus his own electromagnetic field to send a beam of energy from his eyes and make a tone sound out of a speaker. He has applied to the One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge administered by the JREF.

The JREF has ridiculed Dr. Ross since he filed his challenge application. James Randi wrote on his web page: “You think you’ve seen every sort of claim that could be thrown at the JREF…. Most have been preposterous, silly, irrational, and/or astonishing. Now we have one that is all of those…Dr. Colin A. Ross.”

“I am not the first unconventional thinker who has had to endure the snickering of cynics and skeptics, so I happily accept this recognition,” said Dr. Ross. “Every significant scientific advance faces resistance, but it is time that the JREF stop ridiculing me and tests the protocol.”

Dr. Ross says his claim is a testable scientific hypothesis for which he has solid evidence. He explains on the Colin A. Ross Institute Web site (www.rossinst.com) that the energy emitted through his eyes is electromagnetic (EM) energy in the 0-40 Hz frequency range with amplitude in the 0-50 micro-volts range. These are the same brain waves that emerge through the skull. Dr. Ross captures this energy with an electrode and neurofeedback equipment. The software plays a tone in response to detecting the EM energy emerging through his eyes.

The JREF has accepted Dr. Ross’ challenge as a claim of the paranormal, insisting that no energy is emitted from the eyes.
Other 2009 Pigasus awardees include the producers of Ben Stein’s film, “Expelled,” and actress Jenny McCarthy for promoting her view that vaccines are contributing to the increase in autism in the United States.

*) The awards are announced via telepathy, winners are allowed to predict their victories, and the Flying Pig trophies are sent via psychokinesis by the James Randi Edicational Foundation: "We send; if they don't receive, that's probably due to their lack of paranormal talent".

Links:
Swift article on Dr. Ross : http://www.randi.org/site/swift-blog/211-swift-august-22-2008.html#i4
Dallas Observer Article 1: http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2008/07/does_colin_ross_also_know_wolv.php
Dallas Observer Article 2: http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2008/08/colin_ross_has_an_eyebeam_of_e.php

So there are others?

[Roadtoad]

So there are others?

'Fraid so. Stupidity and intellectual dishonesty are not the purview of only one person.

[The Professor]

Are there more?

[MattC]

Are there more?

An entire subforum full.

~ Matt

[fromdownunder]

Are there more?

Don't you research anything other than your own posts?

Sorry, silly question.

Norm

[VisionFromFeeling]

Said by and about Dr. Colin Ross,
“I am not the first unconventional thinker who has had to endure the snickering of cynics and skeptics, so I happily accept this recognition,” said Dr. Ross. “Every significant scientific advance faces resistance, but it is time that the JREF stop ridiculing me and tests the protocol.”

Dr. Ross says his claim is a testable scientific hypothesis for which he has solid evidence. For a true and pure scientist coming from their own field of respectable work the JREF would not be the first venue to introduce and make public a breakthrough discovery. Why is not Dr. Ross thoroughly researching his breakthrough together with collegues within the field and publishing, testing and verifying his ideas according to the conventional practices in which this is done. The JREF, although in my opinion representing scientific principles and standards, is not a scientific establishment whose purpose is to investigate scientific claims in the way that conventional researchers are already available to do together with Dr. Ross.

It seems that if his discovery is such a true and breakthrough concept, it would be fully possible to first introduce it to the world as is done with science, and then Dr. Ross could bring to the JREF a claim that is already thoroughly researched and verified and I am sure the JREF would be able to acknowledge true and pure science and none of this conflict would take place. You see, Dr. Ross is coming from the science background, with what he introduces as a scientific idea, yet it seems to be not fully researched, proven or established scientifically, and the JREF is not the place to start for a scientist.

It just seems a bit odd to me, that's all. Good luck to Dr. Ross, though. :)

So there are others?There are others, yes. I'm here too. :)

[Ashles]

Good post:


Originally Posted by The Professor http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=4656125#post4656125)
So there are others?
'Fraid so. Stupidity and intellectual dishonesty are not the purview of only one person.

I am always confused when paranormal claimants somehow think they are the first person ever to make such claims.

[Ron_Tomkins]

Well, all I can say is that this thread has made my day

[Azrael 5]

Well I dont know what's happening on this. I emailed Randi-on another topic-an metioned it but got no answer on that subject.

The interview is published with his quote so hope it's true I don't want suing :D

[Soapy Sam]

There seems to be a tendency for the JREF staff to remain silent on financial speculation on the JREF Forum.
I can understand this up to a point, but sometimes it seems counterproductive. It's understandable that the small number of staff members may not be up to speed with the forum's speculations, but it's hard to see why JR would say one thing in person , then remain silent generally and not confirm in an email when directly asked . He may have changed his mind again. We are, after all, in a period of financial change and uncertainty for much bigger organisations than JREF.

[hokie]

It's really odd that someone makes a claim such as Ross'. Why make a speaker go blip when you might be able to more interesting things such as:
1. assist paralyzed patients
2. be the next generation Wii
3. advance military technology

The range of possibilities is huge and its being wasted on 'beep'? Makes me suspicious.

[The Professor]

I met Randi today at Blackpool magician's convention and during an interview with him he told me the great news the challenge is to continue,he hopes forever.
He changed his mind after hearing psychics were cliaming it as a victory of sorts. :)


Just to add he was a very friendly humourous chap! ;)

So the test is continuing then?

[Roadtoad]

So the test is continuing then?

Perhaps. But what does it matter if you will not provide protocols which meet the very basic standard set by JREF?

[Ferguson]

I wonder how many people the MDC has really convinced. Similar challenges exist to attack things we believe in, and we don't lend them much credence.


This is probably true, that those who engage in reiki healing etc. and "swear by it" will shrug it off no problem. The great thing about the MDC though is it acts as a powerful lightningrod. I didn't buy talking to the dead, ghosts, UFOS, homeopathy, etc, and was an atheist, long before I ever heard of Randi's million dollar challenge. Then about a year or two ago I read about the challenge which led me to the whole wider movement.
Though I had bad astronomy book marked for... probably seven years, I can't remember, but certainly since well before it was a blog. I just loved the movie/tv reviews, but somehow missed hearing of Randi, or the JREF, until the MDC, which then led to woo I'd never encountered like anti-vax, and the extent of creationism's hold (I'd only ever encountered a few creationists in my life, I had no idea the amount of people that believe that nonsense).

So in that sense I think it's very powerful in drawing skeptics and woo proponents together, and every time one follows along with an open mind and an eye for evidence, a new skeptic is born. :)

[The Professor]

I'll wait for the official announcement. If such a decision has indeed been made, it will undoubtedly be announced on the SWIFT blog.

Has it been announced yet?

[Roadtoad]

What difference does it make to you? You still won't comply with the requests made.

[MikeSun5]

Has it been announced yet?

Not officially, but the link (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html) is still up. The MDC is not going anywhere. When that link becomes inactive (or even makes mention of the challenge ending), I'll raise an eyebrow.

[The Professor]

So they are still ending it then?

[remirol]

Maybe.

[NobbyNobbs]

So they are still ending it then?

You keep asking the wrong people. If you have read this thread, then you know as much as we do. If you'd like to know more, contact someone officially connected with JREF, not just the forum.

[Roadtoad]

You keep asking the wrong people. If you have read this thread, then you know as much as we do. If you'd like to know more, contact someone officially connected with JREF, not just the forum.

You're missing the point, Nobby. TP wants to continue his rants and diatribes against JREF, and against the "evil conspiracies" that prevent him from winning the million, because HE WON'T FOLLOW THE RULES AND SUBMIT A RATIONAL PROTOCOL WHICH WILL FULFILL THE REQUIREMENTS!

TP thinks he gets some sort of an exemption. He doesn't. And until he figures it out, it won't matter if the challenge is continuing or not. YOU DON'T WIN IT IF YOU DON'T PLAY BY THE RULES!

[rjh01]

Roadtoad did not go far enough. To get to the preliminary test you need to submit an application that specifies a paranormal thing a person can do. This never happened.

[Azrael 5]

Alternatively stop feeding the member. Unless of course you enjoy his posts?

;)

[The Professor]

So it appears to be a false post made by a member here.
I thought that was what it was!
Thanks for the confirmation!

[remirol]

So it appears to be a false post made by a member here.
I thought that was what it was!
Thanks for the confirmation!

Wrong.

[Czarcasm]

So it appears to be a false post made by a member here.
I thought that was what it was!
Thanks for the confirmation!In case you were planning on submitting this for the MDC, the ability to be wrong almost 100% of the time(as highly unusual as this is for the rest of mankind) will not qualify as a "paranormal event."

[Roadtoad]

No, but the notion of the Professor actually managing to get two brain cells functioning in concert just might.

Please keep in mind the Membership Agreement and do not use personal attacks to argue your point.

[Azrael 5]

So it appears to be a false post made by a member here.
I thought that was what it was!
Thanks for the confirmation!

Is this the same member you informed to Crimestoppers and the Portugal police? LMAO! :D

[The Professor]

So you all must now realize that the initial report is false?

[Czarcasm]

So you all must now realize that the initial report is false?Question for the Moderators: Are ELIZA programs allowed to post in these forums?

[remirol]

So you all must now realize that the initial report is false?

How does report make you feel? Tell me about report.

[Roadtoad]

So you all must now realize that the initial report is false?

Or maybe there's simply not enough information at the present time.

You know, maybe you ought to spend some time in R&P with Kurious Kathy. I'm sure the two of you would have a lot of fun together.

[The Professor]

Lots of squirming to defend a lost argument and a false statement if you ask me.
Real Critical Thinkers would face the truth wouldn't they?
A statement has been made, and I've said "Prove it!" yet none of you can.
I guess I'm a better Skeptic than all the rest of you!!!!

[remirol]

A statement has been made, and I've said "Prove it!" yet none of you can.


Wrong.

[Azrael 5]

I know the truth, I have witnesses, I have recordings of Randi interview, you Prof are just delusional. As your email to Magicseen truly showed.
Wether Randi has changed his mind since February or spoke in error is no concern to anyone but you. Your opinion counts for a big fat zero.

[The Professor]

Wrong.

Prove it then!

I am Skeptical of you ... Prove it!

[remirol]

Prove it then!
I am Skeptical of you ... Prove it!
I know the truth, I have witnesses, I have recordings of Randi interview, you Prof are just delusional. As your email to Magicseen truly showed.
Wether Randi has changed his mind since February or spoke in error is no concern to anyone but you. Your opinion counts for a big fat zero.

Done.

[Roadtoad]

Done.

It won't matter. TP is convinced he's right, even when the evidence remains against him.

[remirol]

It won't matter. TP is convinced he's right, even when the evidence remains against him.

Oh, I'm not trying to convince TP; he'll never listen. Just future readers of the thread. I'm also demonstrating something else for those readers (hopefully) -- if you don't give someone like him anything to grab onto, he has to use his own words, and is forced to actually say something if he wants to continue the attention-grab.

[The Professor]

There has been no announcement by the JREF so you are all LYING!!!!!!

If you aren't LYING, then please show your proof!

Please ... Just ONE STATEMENT from the JREF proves me wrong!

Where is it???????

[Roadtoad]

There has been no announcement by the JREF so you are all LYING!!!!!!

If you aren't LYING, then please show your proof!

Please ... Just ONE STATEMENT from the JREF proves me wrong!

Where is it???????

One more time: We don't KNOW. This does not make anyone a liar. It means we have no information. So far, no change in status has been mentioned by Randi himself, Phil Plait, Jeff Wagg, or anyone else connected with JREF.

[Azrael 5]

Dead NASA employees make more sense.

[arthwollipot]

Yeah, but nobody beats dead NASA employees.

[TSR]

Yeah, but nobody beats dead NASA employees.

.
Seem to me that I read they lost their last football game to the dead ventriloquists' team, 108-105 in a heartbreaker to clinch the season....
.

[gerdbonk]

Phil Plait confirms at TAM 7 the MDC will continue. The process is under review to see if can be streamlined.

[Roadtoad]

Too bad the Professor couldn't keep his mouth shut. He could have read this announcement.

[rjh01]

Actually the professor still visits. Poor guy. Check his public profile. Link below.
http://forums.randi.org/member.php?u=25683

[Chris H]

Actually the professor still visits. Poor guy. Check his public profile. Link below.
http://forums.randi.org/member.php?u=25683

I expect he's been rather bored having been banned from The Magic Cafe for more than a month. For some reason he's been let back in now, which is a shame. I was enjoying the peace and quiet.

Cheers,

Chris

[Chris H]

I expect he's been rather bored having been banned from The Magic Cafe for more than a month. For some reason he's been let back in now, which is a shame. I was enjoying the peace and quiet.

Cheers,

Chris


Since returning to the Cafe, Dave has added the following to his signature:

THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSED TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS

Hilarious!!

[Roadtoad]

Since returning to the Cafe, Dave has added the following to his signature:

THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSED TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS

Hilarious!!

Perhaps. But he needs to be called on it. Strenuously.

[Stacy Head]

Lots of squirming to defend a lost argument and a false statement if you ask me.
Real Critical Thinkers would face the truth wouldn't they?
A statement has been made, and I've said "Prove it!" yet none of you can.
I guess I'm a better Skeptic than all the rest of you!!!!

Did I give you an enema once on the psych ward? If it wasn't you, I hate that i missed the opportunity. :rolleyes:

Here is the truth: we are so much better looking than you :cool:

[arthwollipot]

BTW, if anyone's still interested, Randi confirmed at TAM that the million dollar challenge will be continuing - in some form or another.

[Georg]

I am, and it´s great news!

How was your trip?

[arthwollipot]

Excellent, thank you! In fact I can honestly say that I had the best time of my life.

[Georg]

[ongoing derail]Glad to hear that, arth. With you seeming to have been quite excited beforehand, it´s good to see it was worth the effort. [/ongoing derail]

[Rainman]

Rather than that, I'd like to see an aggressive media campaign to go after some of the usual suspects. Full page ads in the NY Times (and elsewhere) or even cheap TV ads "calling out" Sylvia Browne, for example.

I'd donate money to that cause!

I think this would be a bad idea... Just would cause bad publicity to "call someone out"... It's just not nice imo. Could hurt the forum/community because we are supposed to be known for critical thinking and such, not bullying people.

[Foolmewunz]

I think this would be a bad idea... Just would cause bad publicity to "call someone out"... It's just not nice imo. Could hurt the forum/community because we are supposed to be known for critical thinking and such, not bullying people.

Hey, Welcome Rainman.....

Just to be clear - the JREF and the JREFForums are two distinctly different things. Yes, the JREF owns the forums, but the forums are open to anyone who agrees to abide by the MA(membership agreement) and thus, does not speak for the JREF.

Those who favor a more aggressive approach to the challenge are thinking more in terms of Randi's throwing out the challenge to Sylvia Browne, for instance. Or his ongoing war of words and wits with Uri Geller and his loyal henchmen. In both cases, I don't think Randi harmed his or the JREF's reputation in the least(other than with true believers and camp followers), and he got a good deal of mileage out of the issues and brought a lot of positive attention to the Foundation and its mission.

[Rainman]

Thank you for clearing that up. Makes more sense that way to have it like that.

But yeah I am still quite new, have a lot of reading to do still ^^

[Lisa Simpson]

The rest of the thread, about milosp and his paranormal ability, have been moved here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=154372)

[fromdownunder]

I am beginning to wonder if the decision to keep the challenge going was unwise. It has never attracted the sort of people it was targetted at. All it does is attract the flies swarming around the edge, and from the quantity and quality of claims, in ...say... the last two years, even the flys get swatted without any publicity as a mainstream Media grabbing event, which was my understanding as to why it was started in the first place.

Sure, it is nice to have a bit of fun here on what is basically a backwater BB, but what's the point?

The intratubes attracts the lowest quality claimants, and there is so little mainstream publicity to speak of about the challenge, that it seems to have become irrelevant. Milksop (stet) being an ideal example, as is ABR. Just clowns with an ISP and too much time on their hands. If Randi was going after the big hitters, the Challenge has failed miserably, and perhaps it really is time to put it behind the JREF, and look for better ways to use their resources.

Norm

[Aitch]

I am beginning to wonder if the decision to keep the challenge going was unwise. It has never attracted the sort of people it was targetted at. All it does is attract the flies swarming around the edge, and from the quantity and quality of claims, in ...say... the last two years, even the flys get swatted without any publicity as a mainstream Media grabbing event, which was my understanding as to why it was started in the first place.


OK, so why not get an independent statistician to go through all the applications and produce a report on all the tests (or lack thereof)? Or, if it's a very short report, get a decent PR man in to produce a piece to pass out to all the newspapers/TV stations/whatever?

[Roadtoad]

I think you're missing the point of the challenge.

Back when it was first proposed, the whole idea was simply "You say you have this ability. Fine. Put up or shut up." At one point, an anonymous donor told Randi that ten grand wasn't much money, (which was the award at the time.) Now, it's up to a million. It's more than some of these psychics will ever make with their "gifts," but it's also shut up money; if you won't even attempt the challenge which will make you wealthy beyond your wildest dreams, why should I trust you with $200 of my hard-earned money for a thirty minute reading so I can contact my dead relatives?

(Oddly enough, even with that kind of a challenge set forth, people still pay that kind of money. This reveals them to be idiots.)

By backing out of the challenge, the "psychics" and their ilk can claim a victory. Randi, they will declare, can't prove them wrong, so they must be right. It's false, of course, but there it is, and there's enough stupid people out there that this needs to be challenged.

[Cuddles]

I asked Randi and Phil Plait about the challenge at TAM London. Randi says that the challenge will definitely be continuing, in the same form as currently for now, and that he has made provision in his will to ensure it keeps going after his death. He said that his main reason for this decision was the claims by woos that closing the challenge showed he knew someone was going to win and was stopping it out of fear. It seems that while the main targets of the challenge pretend to ignore it, they're quite happy to claim victory as soon as they think they're safe from it.

Phil said that they're fully aware of the problems the challenge has in mainly only attracting small time nuts (my words, not his). Unfortunately they're not sure exactly how to make the challenge more effective, but it's something actively under discussion and hopefully there will be more news coming by Spring or so next year.

[Chris H]

I asked Randi and Phil Plait about the challenge at TAM London. Randi says that the challenge will definitely be continuing, in the same form as currently for now, and that he has made provision in his will to ensure it keeps going after his death. He said that his main reason for this decision was the claims by woos that closing the challenge showed he knew someone was going to win and was stopping it out of fear. It seems that while the main targets of the challenge pretend to ignore it, they're quite happy to claim victory as soon as they think they're safe from it.

Phil said that they're fully aware of the problems the challenge has in mainly only attracting small time nuts (my words, not his). Unfortunately they're not sure exactly how to make the challenge more effective, but it's something actively under discussion and hopefully there will be more news coming by Spring or so next year.


This is fantastic news. Not only is the challenge continuing, but am I right in presuming that Randi made it to TAM London? Hope he's feeling better.

Cheers,

Chris

[arthwollipot]

This is fantastic news. Not only is the challenge continuing, but am I right in presuming that Randi made it to TAM London? Hope he's feeling better.Far as I know he managed a video link. He did not actually travel.

[steenkh]

This is fantastic news. Not only is the challenge continuing, but am I right in presuming that Randi made it to TAM London? Hope he's feeling better.
He was there, courtesy of Skype!

We could all see and hear him, but I am afraid he could only vaguely hear our roaring applause, because nobody turned the camera and mic around from the MC to show our standing ovation for the great man.

Nevertheless, I think he enjoyed it.