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ectoplasm
22nd February 2009, 10:05 PM
Hilary butler is an anti-vaxer from New Zealand who posts on the mad-as-a-box-of-frogs JABS website. She considers herself to be an expert on smallpox and the history of smallpox vaccination. Recently she posted these questions about smallpox.



Hilary Butler's Smallpox examination.

When did the UK get rid of smallpox and why? (The real reasons please, not the smarmy soundbites for which there is no proof...)

What part did the various counties who refused to obey the vaccine laws, have to play in that?

What was the gist of the opinion from the dissenting judges from the Royal Commission into smallpox in the 19th century?

What were the smallpox vaccine contaminants listed in the BMJ in the year 1950?

Explain why you consider the historic smallpox vaccine acceptable, and whether you would be prepared to receive a dose of smallpox vaccine today, prepared the same way as in 1950, using the same standards and technology.

Explain why you would also be prepared to submit to arm to arm vaccination methods... which was after all, the method used for decades, touted as the most "useful" of methods in the "war" against smallpox.

Why, according to the archives way back before 1900... from BMJ, was the GMC actually formed?

Why did the UK have to junk the smallpox compulsory vaccination laws?
What does that great big thick three inch WHO book on Smallpox actually say, was the real reason smallpox was got rid of?

Name the famous researcher, who proved the UK cancer experts right, and showed how and why smallpox vaccine caused cancer. (which was one of the claims which provoked the royal commission in the first place, a claim the royal commission rejected.)

What was the estimated percentage of the world vaccinated against smallpox, just before the vaccine was junked?

How many side effects did an American medical article list, just after the vaccine was junked, as justification for it's junking?

What was the consistent whine from vaccine defenders for the next 20+ years, as to why it was such a bad thing to get shot of the smallpox vaccine?

Who was the first case of smallpox in the last epidemic in Yugoslavia; what was his vaccination status, and what were the vaccination status of all the following "victims"?

Most important as to the "mind" and excuses of the medical profession... , if you look in the old textbooks, what was the "reason" given as to why smallpox had "changed" to Alastrim.


What are the answers to these questions? Hilary has this to say

know the history of smallpox inside out and back to front.

I do not intend to put the answers up here becasue 28 years of dealing with dogma-dealers has taught me the following:

1) first if I'm lucky, they admit they don't know the answers. Usually they don't, so you've earned one brownie point.

2) When I start providing the answers, their modus operandi is always as follows:

a) Find every excuse as to why the medical articles provided can't possibly be relevant. I.e.; the level of science of the day... ... are you now defending your cherished beliefs with far stronger cognitive dissonance (CD), than that which you accuse the anti-vaccine people of possessing?

b) When I confront them about their CD tactics, and the fact that they wanted discussion, and have turned it into arguments as to who best "understands" the issues... such as "which medical school did you go to?" it goes quiet. The real power struggle in their head is that a contrary view is percieved as a threat, not only to them individually, but to the whole vaccine defender's movement globally. "Truth be damned", appears to be the response.

After all, if it can be proven that most of the propaganda about Smallpox has been artfully and deceitfully contrived, even without GPs like yourself knowing that, what does that say about the powers that be in the medical profession, let alone the collective "you", who naievely believe them?


None of my information will ever become public, in the sense of a board like this. I know how dangerous it is for mere mortals to challenge the wisdom from on high. Anyway, in the present climate, that would just be opening myself up to being forced to justify myself to the enth degree, when its YOU who should be justifying yourself.

I've long since learned that the only time when (I should say if... since pigs might fly) information is considered valid, is when the medical profession discovers it for themselves, but in this case, whenever people start to look at Samllpox and Jenner... even people like Peter Razzell ... they very quickly retreat to an acceptable position where they criticise a little bit, but maintain the myth.

After all it has to be maintained because it's the foundation layer to the "house of cards". If someone were to honestly shatter the myth of smallpox, then the whole rotten foundation upon which parents are "emotionally bribed" about the historical value of vaccines, would crash in a heap. Parents would see eons of lies, and wonder what else was a lie too.

The midden heap of smallpox lies is far greater than anyone could imagine.


. that the conditions of engagement here, are set by us. You have no right to ask any questions until you answer the questions asked of you. And not only do you need to answer the questions posed, but AFTER you have done that, you will be asked questions about the implications of the answers when it comes to vaccines today. Just so as to make sure that you actually get the point, instead on continuing the weasel-like manipscrewlations you specialise in.

Answer the questions, because they are totally relevant to today,....

.... but then... I wouldn't expect you to understand why, since your abuility to indulge in accurate analytical thought was probably nuked the day you subscribed to dinosaur mentality as described here.




What I find strange is this idea of secret knowledge- She and only she has this knowledge that supposedly would pull the rug out from under mass vaccination...but she's not going to tell anybody. It would reduce her power or something.

Weird.

JABS forum is found here:
http://www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3714&whichpage=3

The Atheist
22nd February 2009, 10:09 PM
Hilary butler is an anti-vaxer from New Zealand who posts on the mad-as-a-box-of-frogs JABS website.
.......

What I find strange is this idea of secret knowledge- She and only she has this knowledge that supposedly would pull the rug out from under mass vaccination...but she's not going to tell anybody. It would reduce her power or something.

This applies to most purveyors of pseudoscience. Check out Miracle Mineral Supplement or Fuelstar. In both cases, an unknown from outside of the actual science involved has somehow managed to make discoveries which no actual scientist has ever managed.

Shooting's too good for them.

fuelair
23rd February 2009, 09:51 AM
She is a twit.

Skeptic Guy
23rd February 2009, 10:03 AM
And I would bet, based on your additional information, that even if you answered her questions accurately, she wouldn't accept it.