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Drewbot
26th February 2009, 12:41 PM
BFF Poster JBH, asked me to start a thread at JREF, where he could freely espouse his views on what Bigfoot may actually be.

Here is the BFF link, where he is not within forum rules if he speaks about religion.

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=14824&st=0&start=0

Safe-Keeper
26th February 2009, 12:45 PM
I'm continuously amazed by people who insist on shoehorning everything they know of in the world into their religion. Bigfoot can't just be Bigfoot, no, there must be something Abrahamic to them!

.13.
26th February 2009, 01:02 PM
I guess this makes cryptozoology a legitimate science since it has taken the mystery and awe out of bigfoot and made it too mundane...

From the link in OP
Upon entering, he was amazed to see the Indian feeding the meat to a large, hairy man-like creature. The creature was totally covered with thick hair, except for its palms.

But atleast I learned that the bigfoot didn't masturbate.

mangler
26th February 2009, 02:08 PM
I find it amusing that Tomahawk Paul attributes more weirdness to Biblical Fallen Angels than Gigantopithecus presently living on the outskirts of our cities ("there are more suitable forums for discussing high weirdness in bigfoot", p68uk). Both seem equally screwy to me.


m :bike:

RayG
26th February 2009, 02:23 PM
So how many bigfoot fit on the head of a pin?

RayG

Drewbot
26th February 2009, 02:28 PM
JBH has let me know, that JREF has a 24 hour hold on his account before he can post.

rockinkt
26th February 2009, 02:31 PM
I find it amusing that Tomahawk Paul attributes more weirdness to Biblical Fallen Angels than Gigantopithecus presently living on the outskirts of our cities ("there are more suitable forums for discussing high weirdness in bigfoot", p68uk). Both seem equally screwy to me.


m :bike:



Paul the Liar is also a proponent of the theory that OJ was framed by the police.
There is no telling how far and how deep his weirdness runs.

Ashles
26th February 2009, 02:36 PM
BFF Poster JBH, asked me to start a thread at JREF, where he could freely espouse his views on what Bigfoot may actually be.
You mean there is an opinion, view or theory about Bigfoot that isn't already covered by the five hundred million posts on the subject already? :eek:

William Parcher
26th February 2009, 02:38 PM
Paul the Liar is also a proponent of the theory that OJ was framed by the police.
There is no telling how far and how deep his weirdness runs.


Another glimpse of the Madman Across the Water.

GT/CS
26th February 2009, 02:52 PM
Another glimpse of the Madman Across the Water.

Well, I sure don't know about that. Here is a post where he shows he's a skeptic! (http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=25350&view=findpost&p=519591)

There is simply no reasoning with people like Joe - they see things their way, and have no capacity for skeptical thinking.

JimBenArm
26th February 2009, 04:55 PM
So, these fallen angels. 'Fess up. Which ones of you tripped them?

Correa Neto
26th February 2009, 07:22 PM
Well, it seems Creekfreak said bigfeet helped buildind the pyramids... And a couple of times I saw people connecting bigfoot with angels/humans hybrids, whatever they were called at the bible...

Sheer nonsense.

But the "Enkidu was a gay bigfoot" still wins...

Akhenaten
26th February 2009, 08:21 PM
Bigfoot = Nautical Angels (http://www.bigfoot.com/NauticalAngels/nautical_angels.php)

We can hope that they're fallen; it doesn't actually say.

ParrotPirate
26th February 2009, 09:26 PM
So connecting two things that don't exist somehow makes them real?

kitakaze
26th February 2009, 10:03 PM
I believe there is a direct connection between UFO/"aliens" and the Bigfoot phenomena. I believe "aliens" are not from other planets, but they are the Biblical fallen angels. They are attempting to create offspring in order to circumvent the judgement of God on them. They don't have the power to create from nothing, so through experimentation on cattle, humans, etc, they have spawned various bigfoot creatures. Eyewitness of accounts of Bigfoot and UFOs apparently making contact would simply be the fallen angels checking on their kids.

The reason that no one has found a bigfoot body, or captured a live one, is probably because they are half spritual, and half physical beings. They can leave physical evidence like footprints or broken branches, but they can also "dissapear" into the spiritual dimension.

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=14824&view=findpost&p=520103

I like this guy, Drew. Invite him over here. I think he and I need to talk shop about the true nature of Bigfoot. We'll have a fireside chat about the pros and cons of the genetic manipulants, Infiltrators (Bigfoot), and the fallen angels angle.

Miss_Kitt
27th February 2009, 12:34 AM
So, these fallen angels. 'Fess up. Which ones of you tripped them?

Dollars to donuts it was the Marquis!! He has Special Powers...

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 05:25 AM
Ok. I can finally post on this thing. I see Kitakaze helped me out with posting my theory from the other site. Thanks. I'm going to include it again just for kicks:

I believe there is a direct connection between UFO/"aliens" and the Bigfoot phenomena. I believe "aliens" are not from other planets, but they are the Biblical fallen angels. They are attempting to create offspring in order to circumvent the judgement of God on them. They don't have the power to create from nothing, so through experimentation on cattle, humans, etc, they have spawned various bigfoot creatures. Eyewitness of accounts of Bigfoot and UFOs apparently making contact would simply be the fallen angels checking on their kids.

The reason that no one has found a bigfoot body, or captured a live one, is probably because they are half spritual, and half physical beings. They can leave physical evidence like footprints or broken branches, but they can also "dissapear" into the spiritual dimension.

drapier
27th February 2009, 05:35 AM
Eyewitness of accounts of Bigfoot and UFOs apparently making contact would simply be the fallen angels checking on their kids.

Welcome to the forum.

How similar are the structure and habits of fallen angel families to those found in human families? Why do the angels abandon their kids in the forest?

Thanks.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 05:37 AM
This is my bigfoot story:
On August 9th, 1989, I was the army and stationed at Ft. Bragg, NC. I was training with a small group of soldiers on a small hill on the north side of Sicily Drop Zone on Ft. Bragg. Early on the morning of the 9th, around 2-3am, I woke up to the sound of a huge crash. I couldn’t see anything because of the darkness and the trees and I went back to sleep. (A C-130H had crashed on the dirt runway near us. Google 74-1681 or CN 382-4654.(There is a link to this crash but I can't post it yet. Let me know if you want it)
When I woke up at daybreak, I walked about 100 yds away from the other to relieve myself in a small clearing. The area is mostly pine forest with small clearings and very light underbrush, and the ground is sandy with pine needles. I looked down at the ground and noticed two sets of human-looking tracks in the sand. Even seeing regular sized barefoot prints in a training area on a military base would be unusual so seeing a set of huge prints and the small ones beside it were very strange.
One Set of tracks was twice as long as my size 9 combat boot and just a little bit wider. The other set was about the size of a 3-4 year old human. The spacing of the prints was comparable to the print size. I followed the prints in the direction of travel for about 15’ until I lost them in the pine needles. The forest opens up about 50yds past that onto an old firing range. The range has multiple concrete bunkers that were so overgrown with brush that you could barely make them out from 20’ away. It would make a perfect shelter. I walked to within 10’ or so of one and peered into an opening but thought better about getting closer. The risk of snakes or bees is high in those old bunkers. I then followed them about 10’ the other direction, from where I was originally standing.
This wasn’t the “one bigfoot print” you see people making casts of. This was two sets of full tracks stretching 25 feet. Even if it was some kind of a hoax what would be the motivation and how would they know I would walk out that direction and find them. It would have taken all night, in the pitch black, to do this. Also, the tracks were side by side. When I first realized what I was looking at, I got that creepy feeling like someone was watching me.
I walked back to the group and asked anyone if they had a camera. Of course, no one did. I had one other guy come out and look at them just to shut up the others who were having a laugh about it.
We were supposed to have been taking 1 hour shifts for guard duty that night. The guy on guard fell asleep and we all slept in until sunrise.

drapier
27th February 2009, 05:43 AM
The guy on guard fell asleep and we all slept in until sunrise.

Did any angels visit you in your dreams?

arthwollipot
27th February 2009, 05:43 AM
I'm convinced!

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 05:44 AM
This is my alien abduction story(I believe "aliens" are fallen angels, not beings from other planets):

Here's my story:

I was asleep in my basement bedroom when I woke up suddenly and noticed 3 beings standing at the foot of the bed. I was completely paralyzed and overcome with terror and immediately sensed these beings were evil. It was very dark in the room but I could see that they were wearing hooded robes, gold necklaces, and had reptilian skin and large black eyes. They looked almost exactly like Sleestaks from the old TV show, Land of the Lost.

They floated around to the side of the bed. I sensed that the one in the middle was their leader. The leader reached down and grabbed my arms with his hands on my biceps and lifted me out of bed. I felt almost completely weightless like a helium balloon. When I was in a standing position, but not touching the floor, his mouth opened wide and he breathed a furnace-hot blast of sulfur-smelling air in my face. Then we began to rotate and sink headfirst in the floor.

I thought they were taking me to hell and I said, "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus", and instantly I was back in my bed, my heart was pounding out of my chest and I was soaked with sweat.

For a long time it didn't cross my mind that I had experienced a classic "alien" abduction until I saw some other people's stories that mirrored mine.

arthwollipot
27th February 2009, 05:48 AM
Uh-huh. Sleep paralysis. Google it.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 06:04 AM
Uh-huh. Sleep paralysis. Google it.

I have the googles, arthwollipot. The funny thing is that the first thing that comes up is Wikipedia. The first thing you see on the page is a painting that depicts a demon sitting on a womans chest as she sleeps. Thanks for the back-up.:)

Tumblehome
27th February 2009, 06:08 AM
...I believe "aliens" are not from other planets, but they are the Biblical fallen angels. They are attempting to create offspring in order to circumvent the judgement of God on them...


Is it possible to circumvent the judgment of an omniscient God? You'd think it would be rather difficult to pull one over on He who is everywhere and knows everything, even our thoughts.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 06:15 AM
It's not possible. But, Lucifer's original sin was pride. He really thought he could ascend to the throne of God, and be God.

Drewbot
27th February 2009, 06:17 AM
JBH- do you think the fact that your alien attempted abduction, was similar to endless reports of sleep paralysis, could mean that it was just a sleep paralysis incident?

It's funny that the reptiles looked ' like sleestaks' obviously a memory buried away in your subconscious.

Another Reptile encounter
http://www.illuminati-news.com/reptilian-encounter.htm

fagin
27th February 2009, 06:18 AM
So you have a trail leading into a bunker, but are scared of bees or snakes, so don't check?
Right.
Some soldier.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 06:27 AM
JBH- do you think the fact that your alien attempted abduction, was similar to endless reports of sleep paralysis, could mean that it was just a sleep paralysis incident?

It's funny that the reptiles looked ' like sleestaks' obviously a memory buried away in your subconscious.

I thought it was just a dream for many years. The part that didn't fit was the overwhelming terror and evil I felt. Also, consider the possibility that whoever came up with the Sleestaks, fashioned them after something they had seen before. I don't think I would have been as terrified if they had shapeshifted into 3 pixies. If you've seen the Land of the Lost, the Sleestaks were alien/reptilian beings that lived in the underworld. I'll have to look into that more closely to see who came up with them.

fagin
27th February 2009, 06:29 AM
Maybe look up the difference between 'fiction' and 'non-fiction' at the same time.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 06:32 AM
So you have a trail leading into a bunker, but are scared of bees or snakes, so don't check?
Right.
Some soldier.

It's strange how some fears work isn't it? I had no problem jumping out of planes, but the sight of a snake frightens me. To imply that that makes me less of a soldier is a little harsh. They don't care about medals and guns. They will bite/sting me all the same.

And did I mention that I was following bigfoot tracks that were twice the size of mine?

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 06:38 AM
Maybe look up the difference between 'fiction' and 'non-fiction' at the same time.

You are a Reverend of the Universal Life Church? Here is a statement from their website:

"The Universal Life Church represents freedom, and to have freedom you can not make demands upon individuals."

Do you follow that tenet?

fagin
27th February 2009, 06:45 AM
You also said you asked other soldiers if they had a camera - why not just take a small posse to check.


You did mention that you were following large tracks.

fagin
27th February 2009, 06:58 AM
I'm a pretty undemanding type of person yes.
I am an atheist, and an official reverend. Can marry people etc. How cool is that. Not to mention ridiculous.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 07:05 AM
Our section sargeant was pissed because the guard had fallen asleep. You are supposed to stay up for one hour, then wake up the next guy for his shift. If someone falls asleep, and they deny it to the bitter end, there isn't any way of knowing who's fault it was.

So, he was yelling at all of us and we had to get back down to the drop zone to get a ride back to the barrakcs. If I asked him if I could take a couple of guys to go look for bigfoot he would've had me by the neck.

GT/CS
27th February 2009, 07:07 AM
Our section sargeant was pissed because the guard had fallen asleep. You are supposed to stay up for one hour, then wake up the next guy for his shift. If someone falls asleep, and they deny it to the bitter end, there isn't any way of knowing who's fault it was.

So, he was yelling at all of us and we had to get back down to the drop zone to get a ride back to the barrakcs. If I asked him if I could take a couple of guys to go look for bigfoot he would've had me by the neck.

Are you making this up as you go along?

fagin
27th February 2009, 07:11 AM
But you said one guy came and had a look, while the others stayed behind and laughed at you. So you had time.
Anyway, without even a fuzzy video of a guy in a monkey suit, you are going nowhere.
Better luck with the shapeshifting lizards.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 07:17 AM
Are you making this up as you go along?

Nope. You have to remember this was 20 years ago. This is my best attempt at recalling this story. The important part was that I saw 2 sets of multiple barefoot tracks where there shouldn't have been any. Even if I would have just seen normal sized barefoot tracks it would've been something I remembered.

Drewbot
27th February 2009, 07:17 AM
I thought it was just a dream for many years. The part that didn't fit was the overwhelming terror and evil I felt. Also, consider the possibility that whoever came up with the Sleestaks, fashioned them after something they had seen before. I don't think I would have been as terrified if they had shapeshifted into 3 pixies. If you've seen the Land of the Lost, the Sleestaks were alien/reptilian beings that lived in the underworld. I'll have to look into that more closely to see who came up with them.


Don't you see? You fashioned the beings in your dream after something you had seen before, while watching Land of The Lost.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 07:19 AM
The reason I mentioned the plane crash is that I saw a television show where a guy claimed bigfoot tracks had been found in remote areas when there had been a car crash or plane crash,etc. Has anyone seen that, or heard of that being talked about?

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 07:23 AM
Don't you see? You fashioned the beings in your dream after something you had seen before, while watching Land of The Lost.

It's possible that my mind saw something it couldn't grasp, so it assigned a form to the beings that was already in my subconcious. I've done that before where I catch a glimpse of something in the corner and my mind tells me it's a mouse or something, and I jump back.

But I was never soaked in sweat with my heart pounding out of my chest when I saw a Sleestak on TV.

fagin
27th February 2009, 07:26 AM
I have sometimes woken up with pounding chest, soaked in sweat. Called a nightmare.

Drewbot
27th February 2009, 07:31 AM
But I was never soaked in sweat with my heart pounding out of my chest when I saw a Sleestak on TV.
Many people describe the same symptoms

being pinned by the Hag until I finally actually woke for real (heart pounding, soaked in sweat, actually out of breath) although it took a while for me to realise I was finally awake http://www.wunderkabinett.co.uk/emporium/index.php?topic=390.msg16892

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 07:31 AM
I have sometimes woken up with pounding chest, soaked in sweat. Called a nightmare.

I've had nightmares before but very rarely. This was something far beyond anything I've experienced. Why would I be compelled to call out the name of Jesus? And why would the experience instantly stop at that name?

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 07:36 AM
Oh man. I forgot about the Pakuni on the Land of the Lost. They were humanioid ape-like creatures. That's crazy. Now I have to know who came up with this stuff.

I guess, technically, I'm living in the Land of the Lost.

fagin
27th February 2009, 07:36 AM
I have no idea, and no real desire to know what compells you. Dreams/nightmares have a nasty habit of ending suddenly. Mine end just as I'm about to get lucky with a gorgeous blonde/brunette/redhead or combination thereof.

Correa Neto
27th February 2009, 07:43 AM
Jbh1970jbh, you before any discussion on your bigfoot/fallen angel conection, you must explain why one should consider that particular biblical myth as real.

We ask...

Evidence?

To date, your alleged experiences do not seem to be related with real bigfeet or fallen angels. It seems that sleep paralysis, faulty memories and the similar are more than enough to explain them.

drapier
27th February 2009, 07:45 AM
Oh man. I forgot about the Pakuni on the Land of the Lost. They were humanioid ape-like creatures. That's crazy. Now I have to know who came up with this stuff.

I guess, technically, I'm living in the Land of the Lost.

Yes, perhaps he has some inside information on the sasquatch-reptilian-ufo-angel connections.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 08:02 AM
Jbh1970jbh, you before any discussion on your bigfoot/fallen angel conection, you must explain why one should consider that particular biblical myth as real.

We ask...

Evidence?

To date, your alleged experiences do not seem to be related with real bigfeet or fallen angels. It seems that sleep paralysis, faulty memories and the similar are more than enough to explain them.


I have absolutley no proof or evidence of my theory. I believe this soley based on my own experiences and from what I've read/heard about other people's experiences. Someone can be convicted of a crime based soley on circumstantial evidence. I feel that forming an opinion based on circumstantial evidence isn't out of the ordinary. There is circumstantial evidence based on eyewitness accounts that lead me to believe that there may be a connection between bigfoot and fallen angels(aliens/UFOs).

I would like to say I don't think one has to accept this theory as true to gain salvation. It's just a side issue of my religion that no one has answered yet. I want to know what the Bible is talking about when they mention "Giants in the land.." and, about the sons of God taking the daughters of men.

fagin
27th February 2009, 08:08 AM
And your circumstantial evidence is wet dreams and footprints in the sand. Sound like C&W song titles.

fagin
27th February 2009, 08:09 AM
ps I don't think someone can be convicted based on circumstantial evidence.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 08:09 AM
I'm here to look at other peoples theories, to hear the other side of the story, and to express my own opinions.

Why do some people stomp through threads where people are discussing ideas just so they can drop cute one-liners? It's like I'm sitting on a bench talking with a friend and some stranger walks by and crop-dusts you. If you don't agree with my opinions, then state an alternate point and lets get down to dialogue.

fagin
27th February 2009, 08:16 AM
Why should anyone agree with you opinions. Why don't you agree with mine. Maybe do a thread search, and see how many similar, random thoughts result in thousands of posts.
If you have proof, post it, if you want to post ridiculous theories, accept silly responses.
You are at liberty to ridicule my opinions - this isn't really a serious thread anyway. Is it?

Correa Neto
27th February 2009, 08:19 AM
Yes, perhaps he has some inside information on the sasquatch-reptilian-ufo-angel connections.

Of course they had. Some of the people who worked at Land of the Lost also worked at Star Trek!

The Land of the Lost remake with Will Farrel, of course, is just a cover-up...

fagin
27th February 2009, 08:24 AM
FYI, IMO
There are no gods, no bigfeet, no angels, no shapeshifting lizard creatures etc etc etc.

Correa Neto
27th February 2009, 08:25 AM
I have absolutley no proof or evidence of my theory. I believe this soley based on my own experiences and from what I've read/heard about other people's experiences. Someone can be convicted of a crime based soley on circumstantial evidence. I feel that forming an opinion based on circumstantial evidence isn't out of the ordinary. There is circumstantial evidence based on eyewitness accounts that lead me to believe that there may be a connection between bigfoot and fallen angels(aliens/UFOs).

I would like to say I don't think one has to accept this theory as true to gain salvation. It's just a side issue of my religion that no one has answered yet. I want to know what the Bible is talking about when they mention "Giants in the land.." and, about the sons of God taking the daughters of men.
Sicne you have no evidence, its not exactly a theory, BTW.
There are no reliable evidences of the existence of angels or bigfeet. So, the best option is: angels and bigfeet are just unrelated myths and you are trying to connect them.

Actually there may be connections- sleep paralysis, hypnagogic hallucinations, etc...

Not to mention that why should I take the bible's words for granted? There are no angels at the Popol Vuh, for example...

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 08:29 AM
Why should anyone agree with you opinions. Why don't you agree with mine. Maybe do a thread search, and see how many similar, random thoughts result in thousands of posts.
If you have proof, post it, if you want to post ridiculous theories, accept silly responses.
You are at liberty to ridicule my opinions - this isn't really a serious thread anyway. Is it?

I understand that posting things on the internet will almost always lead to catching flak from total strangers. It's inevitable. On the other hand, there might be someone who reads this and responds with interesting viewpoints or similar theories that may or may not agree with mine. This is what I'm after.

Scepticism is a valuable part of any inquiry. It forces me to at least try and answer the hard questions. I may never be able to answer them but I will gain knowledge in the pursuit of that answer.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 08:33 AM
FYI, IMO
There are no gods, no bigfeet, no angels, no shapeshifting lizard creatures etc etc etc.

Do you have evidence that they don't exist?

fagin
27th February 2009, 08:38 AM
Here we go again. Invisible pink unicorns.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 08:41 AM
No way. Pink unicorns would just be weird.

fagin
27th February 2009, 08:42 AM
Think about it, how would you go about proving something doesn't exist?

William Parcher
27th February 2009, 08:43 AM
Scepticism is a valuable part of any inquiry.

But you are not making an inquiry about whether Bigfoot and fallen angels are related. You are not asking - you are telling.


It forces me to at least try and answer the hard questions. I may never be able to answer them but I will gain knowledge in the pursuit of that answer.

No matter how many hard or impossible questions you face, the BF/FA connection will always be there for you.

Correa Neto
27th February 2009, 08:45 AM
No way. Pink unicorns would just be weird.

But fallen angels which look like the sleestaks would not be?

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 08:47 AM
I'm going to put together a list of comments made in eyewitness accounts of Bigfoot and UFOs/aliens that lead me to believe there may be a connection. I get sucked into the internet wormhole when I research this stuff but I'll try to at least put a small list together over the next few days. There is at least one account of UFOs and bigfoot in the same place at the same time so I'll include that too.

LONGTABBER PE
27th February 2009, 08:50 AM
ps I don't think someone can be convicted based on circumstantial evidence.

Sadly, they can be and are on a daily basis.

Case in point, Scott Peterson. he is on death row and the prosecution presented ZERO evidence that he killed his wife. All they said was he "looked guilty" and they didnt believe anyone else did it.It was pure "circumstantial" that her body was found where he had been trying the boat ( yet no one saw a dead body in an open boat etc)

Bottom line in reference to what you are referring to.

The law allows such loop holes because the end goal in law is to solve a case by OPINION of a jury or a Judge who are NOT experts in anything potentially related to the charge.

Science cannot operate on a "legal standard".

fagin
27th February 2009, 08:50 AM
That will still not prove anything. Except that people make mistakes, are deranged, lie, or a combination of the three.

Correa Neto
27th February 2009, 08:51 AM
Don't forget to add a methodology and the set of criteria you used to select these reports and why you trust them.

Don't forget that the connection may not be the one you wish for...

fagin
27th February 2009, 08:52 AM
Sadly, they can be and are on a daily basis.

Case in point, Scott Peterson. he is on death row and the prosecution presented ZERO evidence that he killed his wife. All they said was he "looked guilty" and they didnt believe anyone else did it.It was pure "circumstantial" that her body was found where he had been trying the boat ( yet no one saw a dead body in an open boat etc)

Bottom line in reference to what you are referring to.

The law allows such loop holes because the end goal in law is to solve a case by OPINION of a jury or a Judge who are NOT experts in anything potentially related to the charge.

Science cannot operate on a "legal standard".

Your point sadly accepted. But you did offer proof. Something our friend here seems to have missed.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 08:55 AM
But you are not making an inquiry about whether Bigfoot and fallen angels are related. You are not asking - you are telling.




No matter how many hard or impossible questions you face, the BF/FA connection will always be there for you.

I'm telling you what I believe. I'm not telling you to believe it. I have changed my opinion on things in the past based on new information and I expect that to keep happening as I go through life. I'm not done learning on this earth until I'm dead.

You are so right about the BF/FA thing. I wish I could find out all the answers to everything but it looks like I may run out of time. I'll ask God when I see him.

fagin
27th February 2009, 08:59 AM
Having dinner with him tonight?

Correa Neto
27th February 2009, 09:05 AM
Jbh1970jbh, this forum is not a place where you tell what you believe and period. Its a place where ideas and especially beliefs are challenged. Present an idea here and people will ask for its bases and check how waterproof are the evidences and reasonings you used to back and/or build it.

learner
27th February 2009, 09:05 AM
I'm going to put together a list of comments made in eyewitness accounts of Bigfoot and UFOs/aliens that lead me to believe there may be a connection. I get sucked into the internet wormhole when I research this stuff but I'll try to at least put a small list together over the next few days. There is at least one account of UFOs and bigfoot in the same place at the same time so I'll include that too.

Including at least one account of bigfooti and UFOs, seen together, will not convince anyone here that it actually happened. It may however, reinforce the view that there are countless deluded fools eager to believe such childish nonsense.

Drewbot
27th February 2009, 09:07 AM
jbh-

Remember, I told you that you would be allowed to express your opinion without fearing being banned here. I did not say you wouldn't be cross-examined thoroughly by the locals.

William Parcher
27th February 2009, 09:12 AM
I'm not telling you to believe it.


Good, because I do not believe that your interpretations of your experiences have any kind of factual basis. Your testimony is based on your audience believing that there actually were huge and small bare footprints at Ft. Bragg.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 09:13 AM
There is a phrase that comes to mind as I read through this thread: Ad Hominem.

quarky
27th February 2009, 09:17 AM
One thing seems obvious:

If bigfoot does exist, then it must be supernatural in some way.

Here's a dream I had once upon a time:

I was being chased by ghouls with bad intent, in an abandoned sub-way system.
It went on and on, until i suddenly stopped, and had the wherewithal to make a bold claim. I said something like "By the powers invested in me by the grand poo-bah, I command you to flee" I also held up some arbitrary symbol, like a wrench and a broom.
They were horrified by my powers and did flee. I woke up chuckling, and decided to remember this dream.

True story.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 09:17 AM
Jbh1970jbh, this forum is not a place where you tell what you believe and period. Its a place where ideas and especially beliefs are challenged. Present an idea here and people will ask for its bases and check how waterproof are the evidences and reasonings you used to back and/or build it.

Surely you jest.

fagin
27th February 2009, 09:22 AM
Well so far there is no actual argument to attack. So we have to get our jollies somehow.

rockinkt
27th February 2009, 09:38 AM
jbh...a couple of questions please.

1) When you made your official report, based on footprint evidence, that there were interlopers on the military base - what was the official response?
Were you questioned? By whom?
Was there a search of the area after your report?
If not - why not?
Rank and position in chain of command of the official responder is important so please include that.

2) Please explain what you think is valid "circumstantial evidence".

drapier
27th February 2009, 09:43 AM
It's like I'm sitting on a bench talking with a friend and some stranger walks by and crop-dusts you.


Is that what you kids are calling it now-a-days?

RoboTimbo
27th February 2009, 09:43 AM
There is a phrase that comes to mind as I read through this thread: Ad Hominem.

Please explain what you think is the definition of ad hom. Please show where that applies here.

drapier
27th February 2009, 10:00 AM
FYI, IMO
There are no gods, no bigfeet, no angels, no shapeshifting lizard creatures etc etc etc.

In my opinion it would be really cool if there were reptilians disguised as bigfoots with angel's wings riding in a space chariot. That would be really cool.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 10:20 AM
Please explain what you think is the definition of ad hom. Please show where that applies here.

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

Post time 6:18, 6:29, 8:08, 8:38, 8:59.

Now can I get back to talking about the subject of this thread? Thanks.

fagin
27th February 2009, 10:27 AM
First you need to provide substance for your argument.

RoboTimbo
27th February 2009, 10:31 AM
An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

Post time 6:18, 6:29, 8:08, 8:38, 8:59.

Now can I get back to talking about the subject of this thread? Thanks.


Not quite. You brought it up. We aren't on the same time zone so those times don't mean much. It would be better if you would use post numbers. I'm guessing that the one you label as 8:38 is post #59 as one example:
Here we go again. Invisible pink unicorns.

Do you think he was calling you an invisible pink unicorn?

Remember, ad hom does not mean that someone disagrees with your or quesitons your opinion or evidence or lack thereof.

Sorry but you have to realize that presenting anecdotal accounts that are indistinguishable from sleep paralysis on a skeptic's forum won't gain much traction. As evidence goes, it's lighter than air.

fagin
27th February 2009, 10:33 AM
Thank you. Fame at last!

aggle-rithm
27th February 2009, 10:36 AM
Thank you. Fame at last!

Mmmm...I'd check with a doctor about these invisible unicorns you think you're experiencing. ;)

Drewbot
27th February 2009, 10:38 AM
JBH- Do you have any photos or sketches of the Footprints? you have already said the aliens in your dream were Sleestaks, Do you think Bigfoot is really a fallen angel, in the guise of a Reptilian Sleestak entering your sleeping quarters? or are the Reptiles the Actual fallen angels, and they are after you because you almost came upon their chillun?

PS- FAGIN, how do you know they're pink?

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 10:51 AM
jbh...a couple of questions please.

1) When you made your official report, based on footprint evidence, that there were interlopers on the military base - what was the official response?
Were you questioned? By whom?
Was there a search of the area after your report?
If not - why not?
Rank and position in chain of command of the official responder is important so please include that.

2) Please explain what you think is valid "circumstantial evidence".

1) There was no official report.Reason: I wouldn't say that bare footprints mean there were interlopers on base. Ft. Bragg was an open base at that time and we were not in a restricted area. Locals couldn't hunt there for obvious reasons, but you could drive right through that area with no checkpoints. Locals would regularly fish the ponds around there.

No one interested in a military career is going to report large barefoot tracks in the sand. If the tracks would've crossed through our immediate area, we definitely would've delayed our departure and looked around. There were stories of locals sneaking around training areas and trying to steal equipment. I followed the tracks myself and looked around and saw nothing. That was that.

2)Multiple eyewitness accounts of Bigfoot and "aliens"/UFOs in the same place at the same time.

fagin
27th February 2009, 10:51 AM
Stupid question. Everyone knows real unicorns are pink. It's just the imaginary ones that are silver with sequins.

Drewbot
27th February 2009, 10:58 AM
Stupid question. Everyone knows real unicorns are pink. It's just the imaginary ones that are silver with sequins.

You said they were invisible, so I asked how you knew they were pink.

It is not a stupid question! RETRACT!! RETRACT!! ;)

RoboTimbo
27th February 2009, 10:59 AM
No one interested in a military career is going to report large barefoot tracks in the sand. If the tracks would've crossed through our immediate area, we definitely would've delayed our departure and looked around. There were stories of locals sneaking around training areas and trying to steal equipment. I followed the tracks myself and looked around and saw nothing. That was that..

I think the part that causes question is that you thought it extraordinary enough that it has impressed you for so long but not extraordinary enough to report. What do you think an officer would have thought of the extra large bare foot prints that you saw? What do you think would have been their reaction?

fagin
27th February 2009, 10:59 AM
1) There was no official report.Reason: I wouldn't say that bare footprints mean there were interlopers on base. Ft. Bragg was an open base at that time and we were not in a restricted area. Locals couldn't hunt there for obvious reasons, but you could drive right through that area with no checkpoints. Locals would regularly fish the ponds around there.

No one interested in a military career is going to report large barefoot tracks in the sand. If the tracks would've crossed through our immediate area, we definitely would've delayed our departure and looked around. There were stories of locals sneaking around training areas and trying to steal equipment. I followed the tracks myself and looked around and saw nothing. That was that.

2)Multiple eyewitness accounts of Bigfoot and "aliens"/UFOs in the same place at the same time.

If the tracks were there, why not report them?

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 11:00 AM
JBH- Do you have any photos or sketches of the Footprints? you have already said the aliens in your dream were Sleestaks, Do you think Bigfoot is really a fallen angel, in the guise of a Reptilian Sleestak entering your sleeping quarters? or are the Reptiles the Actual fallen angels, and they are after you because you almost came upon their chillun?

PS- FAGIN, how do you know they're pink?

I don't have pics. I could sketch what the clearing and footprints looked like if you want.

I don't think bigfoot is a fallen angel. I think bigfoot is a result of genetic engineering of fallen angels trying to create offspring.

I think the 3 beings that appeared to me are fallen angels. I don't know if they really look like Sleestaks, or if they just appeared that way to me. There are other reports of aliens appearing as reptilian, grey, or nordic. I would say Sleestak is definitely reptilian.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 11:03 AM
If the tracks were there, why not report them?

I did report them. I reported them to my section sergeant.

fagin
27th February 2009, 11:07 AM
Our section sargeant was pissed because the guard had fallen asleep. You are supposed to stay up for one hour, then wake up the next guy for his shift. If someone falls asleep, and they deny it to the bitter end, there isn't any way of knowing who's fault it was.

So, he was yelling at all of us and we had to get back down to the drop zone to get a ride back to the barrakcs. If I asked him if I could take a couple of guys to go look for bigfoot he would've had me by the neck.

So when did you report it to him?

fagin
27th February 2009, 11:10 AM
You said they were invisible, so I asked how you knew they were pink.

It is not a stupid question! RETRACT!! RETRACT!! ;)

Ok I retract, it wasn't a stupid question, it was a dumb question.
I know because I am special and can see invisible pink unicorns.

William Parcher
27th February 2009, 11:11 AM
I did report them. I reported them to my section sergeant.

What was his reaction when he saw the huge bare footprints?

fagin
27th February 2009, 11:18 AM
Happy weekend all. Goodnight and Good luck.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 11:32 AM
What was his reaction when he saw the huge bare footprints?

He didn't look at them. I ran back there with another guy as the others were packing up to leave and showed them to him. I don't remember his response. I will try to track him down though and ask him.

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 11:37 AM
I went on google earth to try and figure out my location on the ground but it's harder than I thought. It is a heavily wooded area.

RayG
27th February 2009, 11:39 AM
I don't think bigfoot is a fallen angel. I think bigfoot is a result of genetic engineering of fallen angels trying to create offspring.

What evidence to you base those thoughts upon?

I think the 3 beings that appeared to me are fallen angels.

Why do you think angels are more likely than sleep paralysis?

RayG

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 11:47 AM
I would say my best estimate on the location of the prints is 35 deg 09' 27 & 79 deg 08' 17.

William Parcher
27th February 2009, 11:58 AM
He didn't look at them. I ran back there with another guy as the others were packing up to leave and showed them to him. I don't remember his response. I will try to track him down though and ask him.


What was the time elapsed between when you saw the tracks and when you reported them to your sargeant?

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 12:03 PM
What evidence to you base those thoughts upon?



Why do you think angels are more likely than sleep paralysis?

RayG

I base it on multiple eyewitness accounts. I'm not saying I believe everything I read or am told. But, when otherwise normal people report seeing abnormal things, I give it a measure of credibility. Accepting that they saw "something" doesn't mean I believe it was what they thought it was.

I have experienced sleep paralysis. This wasn't it. The leader breathed sulfur in my face. This is an earmark of demonic contact. Mainly though, they responded immediately to the name of Jesus.

Interesting point also, it is common with bigfoot sightings to smell an overpowering stench. A few of those reports say it was like sulfur, some likea skunk, some a dead body or rotting flesh. The mention of sulfur smell peaks my interst as a possible tie.

Drewbot
27th February 2009, 12:12 PM
Could the sulphur smell you are referring to, be related to the 'bad smell' that bigfoot is often associated with?

Perhaps they are both related to sleep paralysis

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 12:12 PM
What was the time elapsed between when you saw the tracks and when you reported them to your sargeant?

I would estimate between 5-8 minutes. I walked out to the clearing, noticed the tracks as I started my business, followed them in the direction of travel, followed back the other way until I lost them, then ran back to the others and told them what I saw.

desertyeti
27th February 2009, 12:14 PM
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_105064980c4b2a1c77.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=15069)

William Parcher
27th February 2009, 12:15 PM
I would estimate between 5-8 minutes.

What was his explanation to you for not wanting to see some truly huge barefoot tracks?

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 12:40 PM
He had just woke up to find out the guard fell asleep. He wasn't happy. Imagine you are in his position and some newbie private tells you, "I know your upset but I want you to come look at these weird tracks and go make a full report when we get back."

He wasn't into explaining himself to me.

LTC8K6
27th February 2009, 12:52 PM
1) There was no official report.Reason: I wouldn't say that bare footprints mean there were interlopers on base. Ft. Bragg was an open base at that time and we were not in a restricted area. Locals couldn't hunt there for obvious reasons, but you could drive right through that area with no checkpoints. Locals would regularly fish the ponds around there.

In their bare feet, too.

He had just woke up to find out the guard fell asleep. He wasn't happy.

The sergeant would have been at that spot for quite a while and people would have been gathering nearby to see the spectacle of the reaction of a sergeant finding a guard asleep.

Methinks this dressing down would be far more memorable than any barefoot tracks in a place where barefoot people are free to roam.

Having spent a 2 week FX in that area 14 years ago, I find this story interesting...

Correa Neto
27th February 2009, 01:04 PM
Sorry jbh1970jbh, but according to you one footprints set seemed to be of a tree- to four-years old child. Do you think you should not report the possible presence of kids at a millitary training area? How do you think a sargeant should react to the possible presence of kids at such a place?

This is just one of the things wich I think smell bad at your tales, and its not sulfur neither bigfoot's foul smell...

Not to mention that I find the idea of a 2- to 3-m tall ape lingering around an American millitary training site not resulting in reliable evidence (such as imagery) a bit unlikely...

jbh1970jbh
27th February 2009, 01:21 PM
Sorry jbh1970jbh, but according to you one footprints set seemed to be of a tree- to four-years old child. Do you think you should not report the possible presence of kids at a millitary training area? How do you think a sargeant should react to the possible presence of kids at such a place?

This is just one of the things wich I think smell bad at your tales, and its not sulfur neither bigfoot's foul smell...

Not to mention that I find the idea of a 2- to 3-m tall ape lingering around an American millitary training site not resulting in reliable evidence (such as imagery) a bit unlikely...

Please read previous posts. Ft. Bragg was an open post. Anyone could drive through there. The odd part was the size of the print. And no one else had any reason to believe it was an ape because the prints were human looking except for the size of the larger ones.

If this was some barefoot local walking around with a kid to go fish a pond then that was one giant local. The tracks appeared to have been fresh which lead me to believe they had been made sometime the night before or early morning. I lived in Florida for 6 years, two blocks from the water. I know what a human footprint in the sand looks like.

drapier
27th February 2009, 01:28 PM
Here's classic tale (http://www.bigfootencounters.com/) of desert sasquatches, ufos, an airforce base, and a plucky Red-tailed hawk named "Nixon." Unfortunately, no reptilians or angels. (click on "Stories, sighting, encounters" and then on "CA-Edwards AFB."

Through the next three years, Corey and I, and sometimes myself with my faithful Red-tailed Hawk, Nixon, we gathered as much information on desert Sasquatch activity as we could. In many cases, the witnesses told very similar tales of large hair-covered man-like apes observed crossing the highway, or looking in their windows at their homes usually after midnight. Through these witnesses we slowly became aware that the military, just north of Lancaster, California at Edward’s Air Force Base had been witness to these desert man-beasts for several years. We finally made contact with three different military security officers, all of which did not know of the others, who provided us with information relating to what the Air Force knew about these animals. Before I continue with this, I must inform the reader that these three men were willing to discuss this with us only because we promised to never reveal their names or ranks, and if we did, they would deny everything. Because I believe in keeping promises, I will comply with their request, but will refer to them only by rank since I do not believe that their status at the time would indicate or reveal their true identity, thereby keeping my promise. I will also add that I have spoken to five additional ex-military officers who were once stationed at Edward’s AFB and they all claim that what the first three revealed was accurate, and that not much has changed there since the 1970s.

Drewbot
27th February 2009, 01:28 PM
I would think that it is more likely that the large print would have been from a large 7'4" human, than from a Giant Unclassified Hairy apeman with a baby, whose feet were only the size of a 4 year old human. I would also think that a baby Bigfoot would have feet much larger than that of a 4 year old human.

Correa Neto
27th February 2009, 01:29 PM
I read them. All of them.

Do you really think that the possible presence of a three- to four-years old child at an area where a millitary maneauver is being carried out is not a cause of concern?

Z
27th February 2009, 01:37 PM
When I was stationed in Ft. Bragg in '92, I got to talking to some of the long-term residents of the post. A couple of the JKFSWC guys showed me a pair of boots they had modified into 'Bigfoot Boots'. On long, boring field problems, they'd put these on, walk in the mud or along trails, and leave behind plenty of giant tracks. Then, when they got new blood in, they'd bivouac near the sites and play pranks on the fresh meat.

In the four years I spent there, I encountered these giant footprints at least five times.

It was a prank, jbh. You fell for a classic Bragg prank.

Drewbot
27th February 2009, 01:43 PM
When I was stationed in Ft. Bragg in '92, I got to talking to some of the long-term residents of the post. A couple of the JKFSWC guys showed me a pair of boots they had modified into 'Bigfoot Boots'. On long, boring field problems, they'd put these on, walk in the mud or along trails, and leave behind plenty of giant tracks. Then, when they got new blood in, they'd bivouac near the sites and play pranks on the fresh meat.

In the four years I spent there, I encountered these giant footprints at least five times.

It was a prank, jbh. You fell for a classic Bragg prank.

Oh no! This is freaking priceless.

LONGTABBER PE
27th February 2009, 01:46 PM
When I was stationed in Ft. Bragg in '92, I got to talking to some of the long-term residents of the post. A couple of the JKFSWC guys showed me a pair of boots they had modified into 'Bigfoot Boots'. On long, boring field problems, they'd put these on, walk in the mud or along trails, and leave behind plenty of giant tracks. Then, when they got new blood in, they'd bivouac near the sites and play pranks on the fresh meat.

In the four years I spent there, I encountered these giant footprints at least five times.

It was a prank, jbh. You fell for a classic Bragg prank.

Thats not all we used to do. It was considered "good training" to sometimes "infiltrate" units in the field and cause "disruptions".

Z
27th February 2009, 01:58 PM
Thats not all we used to do. It was considered "good training" to sometimes "infiltrate" units in the field and cause "disruptions".

Yeah, I remember a few of those 'disruptions'. A group of blackhats decided to CS our mess tent right before evening chow back in '95. Our colonel was slightly peeved, to say the least - it was salisbury steak night, fer chrissake!

Springfork
27th February 2009, 06:55 PM
First, I find it very unusual that you would walk 100 yds from your camp to relieve yourself.
Second, I can produce nightmares anytime I want. Get an electric blanket, turn the setting up toward high, then fall asleep. You will have nightmares. Give it a try. In my unscientific opinion, nightmares are simply your bodies way of trying to wake you up and let you know you are overheating. This is also why you often wake up from nightmares in a sweat.

LTC8K6
27th February 2009, 08:36 PM
Yep, no shortage of pranksters in the military and they are often in great places in the middle of nowhere to pull them off.

tsig
27th February 2009, 08:53 PM
You said they were invisible, so I asked how you knew they were pink.

It is not a stupid question! RETRACT!! RETRACT!! ;)

Lo Though She is invisible Her essence is indeed pink. If you have sweetly suffered the chaste chastisement of Her Holy Hooves you would know Her Pinkness abd would believe.

Beware Her Angry Horn of Piercing reserved for the unbelievers!!!

makaya325
28th February 2009, 09:56 PM
BFF Poster JBH, asked me to start a thread at JREF, where he could freely espouse his views on what Bigfoot may actually be.

Here is the BFF link, where he is not within forum rules if he speaks about religion.

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=14824&st=0&start=0

Drew, out of the many serious researchers, you cherry pick and focus on an outcast. Sounds like an agenda your trying to approve

Drewbot
28th February 2009, 10:02 PM
Drew, out of the many serious researchers, you cherry pick and focus on an outcast. Sounds like an agenda your trying to approve

Makaya don't flatter yourself, JBH and his fallen angel idea, has as much reliable evidence backing it, as you have backing Bigfoot being a flesh and blood creature.
I saw his dilemma of not being able to discuss religion, and his idea of bigfoot being related to Fallen Angels, by nature, must discuss religion. So I offered him the JREF as an outlet for that.

What possible agenda does it sound like I have? HE ASKED ME TO START THE THREAD.

rockinkt
28th February 2009, 11:57 PM
Mayaka is dissapointed that someone else is getting attention.

learner
1st March 2009, 04:32 AM
Jbh...
Sorry to take you back a bit but was my post #72 On your Adhom list?

Akhenaten
1st March 2009, 07:15 AM
Jbh...
Sorry to take you back a bit but was my post #72 On your Adhom list?


It seemed more ad hominid to me.

quarky
1st March 2009, 08:13 AM
Ad nauseum at some point.

jbh1970jbh
1st March 2009, 11:41 AM
When I was stationed in Ft. Bragg in '92, I got to talking to some of the long-term residents of the post. A couple of the JKFSWC guys showed me a pair of boots they had modified into 'Bigfoot Boots'. On long, boring field problems, they'd put these on, walk in the mud or along trails, and leave behind plenty of giant tracks. Then, when they got new blood in, they'd bivouac near the sites and play pranks on the fresh meat.

In the four years I spent there, I encountered these giant footprints at least five times.

It was a prank, jbh. You fell for a classic Bragg prank.

This is an interesting point. I've thought about this as a possible explanation. There are a few reasons why I ruled this out.

1. I enjoy a good prank as much as any other prankster. You have the setup, which is fun. You have the reaction of the pranked, also fun. Then you have the big payoff where you come out and tell them, "Ha ha ha, I got you sucker!" You may even enjoy the reaction after they realize they have been pranked.

What doesn't make sense to me is why would you go through with a prank with no payoff.

2. How would they know which way I was going to walk to take a leak? If I would have seen them while walking from are AO to our pickup point, the prank explanation would make more sense. They could have put them right along side the truck making sure one of us saw them as we loaded up.

Would they really put them 100yds from us in the hope that we might go that way?

3. Your story of people walking around making fake bigfoot prints is believable and funny. I might even pull that in the future myself. But, it still wouldn't explain the second set of tracks. Did they also make small tracks next to the bigfoot tracks?

jbh1970jbh
1st March 2009, 11:49 AM
Jbh...
Sorry to take you back a bit but was my post #72 On your Adhom list?

I'm not sure. I went back and read #72 though, and if I didn't include you in the list then I must have missed that post. You are hearby included.

jbh1970jbh
1st March 2009, 11:55 AM
Drew, out of the many serious researchers, you cherry pick and focus on an outcast. Sounds like an agenda your trying to approve

I read that as meaning that you don't consider me a serious researcher. I didn't know that you had to approve what was serious and what wasn't.

If by looking into this matter I find that I was correct, would it not be serious research because you don't like the subject or that it is not socially acceptable?

jbh1970jbh
1st March 2009, 12:03 PM
First, I find it very unusual that you would walk 100 yds from your camp to relieve yourself.
Second, I can produce nightmares anytime I want. Get an electric blanket, turn the setting up toward high, then fall asleep. You will have nightmares. Give it a try. In my unscientific opinion, nightmares are simply your bodies way of trying to wake you up and let you know you are overheating. This is also why you often wake up from nightmares in a sweat.

If soldiers take a leak too close to the AO, it can contaminate the dirt/sand/whatever and then when the wind blows it into your face you can suffer respiratory/skin infections. I was trained not to piss where you sleep.

I will take your word for it that you can trigger nightmares with an electric blanket. Just the though of being wrapped in electricity while sleeping makes me uncomfortable. I tried one once and didn't like. I can assure you, it did make me sweat.

Z
1st March 2009, 12:36 PM
This is an interesting point. I've thought about this as a possible explanation. There are a few reasons why I ruled this out.

1. I enjoy a good prank as much as any other prankster. You have the setup, which is fun. You have the reaction of the pranked, also fun. Then you have the big payoff where you come out and tell them, "Ha ha ha, I got you sucker!" You may even enjoy the reaction after they realize they have been pranked.

What doesn't make sense to me is why would you go through with a prank with no payoff.

There's a payoff - they take the unsuspecting newbie in that general area - or send him that way on patrol - and the payoff is, for them, granted.

2. How would they know which way I was going to walk to take a leak? If I would have seen them while walking from are AO to our pickup point, the prank explanation would make more sense. They could have put them right along side the truck making sure one of us saw them as we loaded up.

Would they really put them 100yds from us in the hope that we might go that way?

They weren't meant for you; you just happened to stumble across a set of fairly fresh tracks.

3. Your story of people walking around making fake bigfoot prints is believable and funny. I might even pull that in the future myself. But, it still wouldn't explain the second set of tracks. Did they also make small tracks next to the bigfoot tracks?

The smaller tracks could easily be the tracks of a soldier on patrol who, realizing what they were, chose to follow them for a while; they could have been from kids playing in the woods (remember, I was stationed in Ft. Bragg for four years; I've almost run over kids during summertime who were WAY out of where they should have been), they could have been an artifact of someone trying to STRETCH his footsteps with the help of another person.

The pragmatic explanations are numerous and viable; given that we KNOW soldiers commit this prank on Bragg on a regular basis, the more realistic explanations that fit the prank hypothesis make more sense than trying to shoehorn data into a hypothesis that involves UNKNOWN entities such as angels, space aliens, and Bigfoot.

But you've fallen once more into the trap of thinking that this is all about you - you can't fathom why someone would set a prank FOR YOU and not wait around to laugh at it. It wasn't for you - any more than the hundreds of artillery simulators and flashbang traps we ran across were actually meant for us.

bluforMD
1st March 2009, 12:52 PM
Thats not all we used to do. It was considered "good training" to sometimes "infiltrate" units in the field and cause "disruptions".

I can verify and confirm this.

We've also got the 4th POG (psyops) stationed there.

Skeptical Greg
1st March 2009, 01:20 PM
....

They weren't meant for you; you just happened to stumble across a set of fairly fresh tracks.....

Reminds me of the oft repeated ----

" Why would anyone fake Bigfoot prints in a remote, inaccessible area ? "


Then you have to point out that they were found...

Miss_Kitt
1st March 2009, 05:39 PM
On the subject of the Invisible Pink Unicorn:

She is unseen, but Her works are often found, especially in laundry. The unexplained pinkening of previously white towels, shirts, or underwear; the inexplicable small hole in the otherwise little-worn garment; the missing sock when you know you put the pair in the same load: these are signs of Her presence.

She is invisible by definition; we know She is pink by faith.

The IPU is just as hard (or easy) to disprove as Odin or Yahweh or the Easter Bunny. Those who know in their hearts that She exists recognize Her handiwork in things others claim have mundane causes. But they cannot disprove Her; ergo, we should believe!

Blessed be her delicate hooves, MK

PS She'd skewer a Sleestak so fast it would never know what hit it!!

LONGTABBER PE
1st March 2009, 06:21 PM
I can verify and confirm this.

We've also got the 4th POG (psyops) stationed there.

Kewl, I was with 4th POG and have their coin back in the day for a while.

Behind the green fence

arthwollipot
1st March 2009, 10:43 PM
I have the googles, arthwollipot. The funny thing is that the first thing that comes up is Wikipedia. The first thing you see on the page is a painting that depicts a demon sitting on a womans chest as she sleeps. Thanks for the back-up.:)Yeah. Did you actually read the rest of the article? The bit where it says that the phenomenon has been interpreted in different ways throughout the ages? That in early times when demons were thought to be the source of ills, it was attributed to demons? And that now, when aliens are all the rage, it's attributed to aliens?

Did you even read the bit where it explains what causes sleep paralysis? Or how we know? Did you check any of the references?

Please - if you're going to be lazy with your research, you can expect to come to some shoddy conclusions.

arthwollipot
1st March 2009, 10:48 PM
I've had nightmares before but very rarely. This was something far beyond anything I've experienced. Why would I be compelled to call out the name of Jesus? And why would the experience instantly stop at that name?As to why you would be compelled to yell "Jesus!" I cannot say, but I can say that at the point you shouted out, you were fully awake. Many people experiencing sleep paralysis report similar things. When they are finally able to force themselves to move, or to speak or something, the semi-dream state is broken and the experience ends.

jbh1970jbh
2nd March 2009, 08:23 AM
The prank explanation, being to me the closest thing to a viable explanation, still brings up more questions to me than answers.
Someone could very well have been pulling a prank on some other soldiers, but we came across no other soldiers. I don’t remember exactly how many guys we had with us at the time but I’m estimating 9. We traversed the area around the drop zone for days. There were soldiers on the other side of the drop zone, and drops were being made that night, but if anyone was within a few hundred yards of us we would have seen/heard them at some point.
It would make sense to pull this prank if you were running a JROTC event out there as a cadre, and you could freely walk around without gear, and maybe even in a vehicle, and set it up. The last thing I would do is add to the weight on my back just to get a giggle. A ruck usually weighs 60-80 pounds. I would strip down my MREs if it meant I could eliminate 1 lb. I wouldn’t be carrying around a pair of rubber bigfoot shoes to pull pranks.
If I were to spend the time pulling this I would
1.Make sure I knew exactly where my target audience is located so I could pick a prime spot for the tracks.
2.I Would have help from the inside to know where they would be heading, or have a newbie purposely sent my direction. If I wanted to make sure they were seen, I would have someone in on it to “find” the tracks, assuring that others saw them.
If these were meant for others, then there would’ve been multiple boot prints around the clearing showing where the target unit came across them and I probably wouldn’t have noticed them in the first place.

Drewbot
2nd March 2009, 08:28 AM
JBH-

Are you telling us that the likelihood that it was a fragmented family group of Fallen Angel- Descended Bigfeet, is greater than the likelihood that you ran across a couple of wayward Bigfoot prank-footprints?

jbh1970jbh
2nd March 2009, 08:35 AM
As to why you would be compelled to yell "Jesus!" I cannot say, but I can say that at the point you shouted out, you were fully awake. Many people experiencing sleep paralysis report similar things. When they are finally able to force themselves to move, or to speak or something, the semi-dream state is broken and the experience ends.

I've been reading more into sleep paralysis. One thing that stands out is the relation between these experiences and the acompanying feeling of evil and/or harm. Why do so many cultures and people associate this experience with hags, ghosts, demons, etc.? If it is a purely physiological event, shouldn't the associated feelings and emotions be more evenly distributed between bad, good and everything in between?

I could see waking up paralysed and panicking. If my brain was conscious during the event, it would make more sense if I said, "I can't move, someone help me!" Why would the mind make the leap to thinking reptilian beings where pulling me out of bed.

jbh1970jbh
2nd March 2009, 08:43 AM
JBH-

Are you telling us that the likelihood that it was a fragmented family group of Fallen Angel- Descended Bigfeet, is greater than the likelihood that you ran across a couple of wayward Bigfoot prank-footprints?

I would say that either one is possible, but that I'm leaning more towards the fallen angel idea. After reading through stories on the subject of Bigfoot/UFOs, I can't write all of them off as lies, mistakes, delusions, etc. If even just one of the stories is true, I have to ask myself why UFOs were hanging out with Bigfoot. Since I believe that aliens are really fallen angels, then it at least makes more sense.

William Parcher
2nd March 2009, 08:43 AM
The prank explanation, being to me the closest thing to a viable explanation, still brings up more questions to me than answers.

Bigfoot is in your heart and skepticism stands no chance of giving it the boot.

Drewbot
2nd March 2009, 08:48 AM
JBH-
do you ever fall asleep at inopportune times during the day?, Do you have trouble driving without falling asleep?, have you ever been diagnosed with any sleep disorder?

Please answer honestly

GT/CS
2nd March 2009, 08:52 AM
JBH, after you answer Drew's question will you please explain what exactly a fallen angel is supposed to be? I have this image in my head of an angel that tripped, fell, and can't get up because of the weight of those big wings, but I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean.

Z
2nd March 2009, 08:56 AM
The prank explanation, being to me the closest thing to a viable explanation, still brings up more questions to me than answers.
Someone could very well have been pulling a prank on some other soldiers, but we came across no other soldiers. I don’t remember exactly how many guys we had with us at the time but I’m estimating 9. We traversed the area around the drop zone for days. There were soldiers on the other side of the drop zone, and drops were being made that night, but if anyone was within a few hundred yards of us we would have seen/heard them at some point.
It would make sense to pull this prank if you were running a JROTC event out there as a cadre, and you could freely walk around without gear, and maybe even in a vehicle, and set it up. The last thing I would do is add to the weight on my back just to get a giggle. A ruck usually weighs 60-80 pounds. I would strip down my MREs if it meant I could eliminate 1 lb. I wouldn’t be carrying around a pair of rubber bigfoot shoes to pull pranks.
If I were to spend the time pulling this I would
1.Make sure I knew exactly where my target audience is located so I could pick a prime spot for the tracks.
2.I Would have help from the inside to know where they would be heading, or have a newbie purposely sent my direction. If I wanted to make sure they were seen, I would have someone in on it to “find” the tracks, assuring that others saw them.
If these were meant for others, then there would’ve been multiple boot prints around the clearing showing where the target unit came across them and I probably wouldn’t have noticed them in the first place.

It kills me that you go to such lengths to try to justify away a perfectly pragmatic and logical explanation, but are willing to embrace an 'alien-Angel-Bigfoot' theory.

As to if YOU were to spend the time pulling this, some thoughts:

1) A LOT of Ft. Bragg's regular field soldiers are hard-cases who think 60-80 lbs is chicken feed. As an FDC operator, I had to carry around a radio - and when I first joined, back in '90, the radio I carried brought my total pack weight up to over 120 lbs. When I took part in Robin Sage, 100+ lbs was standard weight; being assigned as ammo guy (assistant gunner) for our M60 gunner, I had a few more pounds than that to carry as well.

Rubber boots might weigh all of 10 lbs, tops. Besides, they could also be stashed in the hummer, brought out only for the purpose of setting up the prank, etc.

2) Orders change, regularly. A prank could have been set up and then not executed because the soldiers received new orders and had to move. Quite a few of the booby-traps we encountered were from just such situations - perimeter defenses rapidly abandoned, ambush sites where the ambushees in question changed routes for some reason, and so forth.

3) Even a prank 'set off' isn't always likely to be trampled in the process. Think for a second - if you had seen the prints, and (using rational thought rather than emotional reaction) dismissed them as a prank, you might have avoided them entirely,and they'd still be there... the next day, the day after, and so forth. I've seen situations where bootprints I had left behind (as distinguished by being the only Ft. Bragg soldier at the time with custom-made jungle-jump hybrid boots from Korea) in a TA were still present a month later (during summer, especially).

Your attempt to justify away the viable solution to the problem still fails, and the viable solution is still infinitely more probable than space aliens, angels, and Bigfoot.

Consider:
We KNOW soldiers exist.
We KNOW soldiers commit this very prank.
We DO NOT KNOW that angels, aliens visiting Earth, or Bigfoot exist.

Based on these facts alone, the practical joke explanation is the clear winner.

jbh1970jbh
2nd March 2009, 09:26 AM
Z:

If you could find a pic of the shoes used to make the bigfoot tracks I could tell if they were similar at all to what I saw. A prank on Ft. Bragg doesn't explain away all and all bigfoot tracks found on Ft. Bragg. Each one should be considered on an individual basis.

I also had jugle boots with black tops, not the usual green, that had an unusual tread and shined up like jump boots. They were made in Korea and everyone would ask me where I got them because the shined up so well. I think I bought them from a surplus store near Ohio State University. I never could find another pair like them.

jbh1970jbh
2nd March 2009, 09:27 AM
JBH-
do you ever fall asleep at inopportune times during the day?, Do you have trouble driving without falling asleep?, have you ever been diagnosed with any sleep disorder?

Please answer honestly

No, to all three questions.

LONGTABBER PE
2nd March 2009, 09:30 AM
Z:

If you could find a pic of the shoes used to make the bigfoot tracks I could tell if they were similar at all to what I saw. A prank on Ft. Bragg doesn't explain away all and all bigfoot tracks found on Ft. Bragg. Each one should be considered on an individual basis.

I also had jugle boots with black tops, not the usual green, that had an unusual tread and shined up like jump boots. They were made in Korea and everyone would ask me where I got them because the shined up so well. I think I bought them from a surplus store near Ohio State University. I never could find another pair like them.

JBH,

Smooth Operators, Men of Green Wool and others with a PMOS starting with 18 arent generally in the habit of revealing the nature of our "equipment".

William Parcher
2nd March 2009, 09:31 AM
I also had jugle boots

Jnugle

jbh1970jbh
2nd March 2009, 09:33 AM
JBH, after you answer Drew's question will you please explain what exactly a fallen angel is supposed to be? I have this image in my head of an angel that tripped, fell, and can't get up because of the weight of those big wings, but I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean.

A fallen angel would be any angel that gave up their place in heaven in order to follow Lucifer in his bid for God's throne. This caused a war in heaven that resulted in Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels being cast down to earth.

Drewbot
2nd March 2009, 09:33 AM
JBH- are you from Florida?

jbh1970jbh
2nd March 2009, 09:45 AM
JBH,

Smooth Operators, Men of Green Wool and others with a PMOS starting with 18 arent generally in the habit of revealing the nature of our "equipment".

I was 11C.

Z
2nd March 2009, 09:46 AM
Z:

If you could find a pic of the shoes used to make the bigfoot tracks I could tell if they were similar at all to what I saw. A prank on Ft. Bragg doesn't explain away all and all bigfoot tracks found on Ft. Bragg. Each one should be considered on an individual basis.

I also had jugle boots with black tops, not the usual green, that had an unusual tread and shined up like jump boots. They were made in Korea and everyone would ask me where I got them because the shined up so well. I think I bought them from a surplus store near Ohio State University. I never could find another pair like them.

LOL! Then you probably know just how awesome those are. I found a single place in Korea that made them. Black jungle sides, jump-boot toe, high-traction tread, and an extra layer of sole for extra comfort. I could manage the road marches in two-and-a-half hours with no blisters or aching! I wore those things until I walked through the sole. They were, hands down, the finest boots I ever wore.

I wish I did have pics of those rubber boots. They were shown to me years ago, and I somehow doubt they've posted pics of them on the 'net. Like Longstabber said, these folks aren't the kind to share their secrets.

But I have another reason for extreme doubt of the existence of Bigfoot on Ft. Bragg - two, actually.

First, although large protions of Bragg appear to be wilderness, the fact is it's all heavily charted, mapped, and extremely well known - especially by certain units stationed there. Every fire break, every damned Woodpecker-infested marked tree, every underground storage bunker, every cave, every long-term fighting position - known. WELL known. And not just Ft. Bragg proper, either; the Robin Sage exercise taught me that large stretches of North Carolina that otherwise appear to be wild and unexplored are actually well-known grounds for many units.

Second, and I've mentioned this in other threads, there are satellite imaging techniques that would have LONG AGO spotted Bigfoot populations in wilderness areas, unless they hide in caves for long stretches of time. I can't really go into much greater detail on that subject, though, as to the best of my knowledge, the military still hasn't revealed, officially, that it has this system active and pointed at the U.S. (for training... wink wink, nudge nudge).

What I've always wondered is, why don't they use this system when children go missing in these areas? My guess is, financial reasons - or the system is already dedicated to 'other missions of national security'.

But what it all boils down to, is there's no place Bigfoot could hide for any length of time on Bragg. The place gets downright crowded at times - especially when they bring the Jarheads in for training - and any hidey-hole worth its weight is already packed with government-issued moles.

jbh1970jbh
2nd March 2009, 09:48 AM
JBH- are you from Florida?

No. I lived in Ft. Lauderdale for 6 months and the Tampa area for 6 years.

Z
2nd March 2009, 09:49 AM
JBH,

Smooth Operators, Men of Green Wool and others with a PMOS starting with 18 arent generally in the habit of revealing the nature of our "equipment".

My PMOS was a 13-series... but my 'equipment' was still pretty sensitive.

I still have to laugh - I was the only soldier at the MLRS unit fully trained on all commo and computer equipment in our battallion, and they failed to get anyone else trained on the stuff before I left for the final time. Their loss...

Actually, not really. They could just send some other sucker to learn how to use that million-dollar satellite radio rig that we NEVER, EVER USED... :D

Z
2nd March 2009, 09:51 AM
Jnugle

Correction Fail!

Try again.

Drewbot
2nd March 2009, 09:58 AM
Correction Fail!

Try again.

Actually that Correction was dead-on. Since a forum fave- Creekfreak's famous 'Jnugle' thread at BFF.

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=17933&hl=jnugle

I Ratant
2nd March 2009, 09:59 AM
jgnule
jenglu
jngule
julgne
jlgune
I'll get it soonly... :)

Z
2nd March 2009, 10:13 AM
Actually that Correction was dead-on. Since a forum fave- Creekfreak's famous 'Jnugle' thread at BFF.

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=17933&hl=jnugle

D'oh!

Well, see, I avoid bigfoot forums entirely. I prefer to visit sane, rational places where every second poster isn't merely trying to bilk you of well-earned greenbacks.

Can I borrow 20 bucks?

William Parcher
2nd March 2009, 10:26 AM
D'oh!

Well, see, I avoid bigfoot forums entirely.


And you've already exceeded your one-minute-per-year quota for thinking about Bigfoot - so you can kiss your personal sanity goodbye.

William Parcher
2nd March 2009, 10:29 AM
After reading through stories on the subject of Bigfoot/UFOs, I can't write all of them off as lies, mistakes, delusions, etc. If even just one of the stories is true, I have to ask myself why UFOs were hanging out with Bigfoot.

There must be millions of people who would say that Bigfoot does not exist. If even just one of them is correct, then....

Z
2nd March 2009, 10:43 AM
And you've already exceeded your one-minute-per-year quota for thinking about Bigfoot - so you can kiss your personal sanity goodbye.

I had any? D'oh!

jbh1970jbh
2nd March 2009, 10:43 AM
There must be millions of people who would say that Bigfoot does not exist. If even just one of them is correct, then....

Neither side has been proven right. Since I have seen tracks, I'm going to lean towards the idea that bigfoot is real until I'm proven wrong. If I never saw them, I may have leaned the other way.

Drewbot
2nd March 2009, 10:50 AM
JBH- the reptiles in your abduction looked like freaking SLEESTAKS. Now I'm not an expert on Reptilian encounters, but I WOULD GUARANFRIKKINGTEE THAT SID AND MARTY KROFT WERE NOT BASING SLEESTAKS ON THEIR ACTUAL EXPERIENCES. So by elimination it must mean that they just nailed the Reptilian look by pure chance.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1970549ac1c70dd5be.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=15474)

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://suspectsatlarge.com/images/sleestaks.jpg&imgrefurl=http://suspectsatlarge.com/&usg=__RN2oLis_J2bJ2UjKUB1a7Ds3ses=&h=231&w=277&sz=14&hl=en&start=11&um=1&tbnid=MsL0P7B14wCUiM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=114&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsleestaks%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D 1W1GDNA_en%26sa%3DN

Correa Neto
2nd March 2009, 10:53 AM
Oh, ignorant being!

They knew the truth! They were very close to it!!!!

Lanzy
2nd March 2009, 10:59 AM
jbh

Could you please elaborate on how you came up with your theory? What set this thought process in motion? It seems a mite complicated to this ole country boy and I can't for the life of me figure out how you sussed it out at all.

Z
2nd March 2009, 11:07 AM
Neither side has been proven right. Since I have seen tracks, I'm going to lean towards the idea that bigfoot is real until I'm proven wrong. If I never saw them, I may have leaned the other way.

That's not a very skeptical way to look at things, friend. Tracks are weak evidence - unless you're an expert on animal tracks. I'm guessing you're not, and there's no such thing as an 'expert' on Bigfoot tracks.

Overwhelming evidence, however, supports the theory that no large humanoid being exists in North America (other than the ones we already know about). The balance of evidence is against Bigfoot.

Parsimony, and all that.

RoboTimbo
2nd March 2009, 11:19 AM
Neither side has been proven right. Since I have seen tracks, I'm going to lean towards the idea that bigfoot is real until I'm proven wrong. If I never saw them, I may have leaned the other way.


What evidence would satisfy you that Bigfoot is NOT real? In other words, what would prove a universal negative to your satisfaction?

learner
2nd March 2009, 11:31 AM
I'm not sure. I went back and read #72 though, and if I didn't include you in the list then I must have missed that post. You are hearby included.

Thank you. I hate to feel left out.

jbh1970jbh
2nd March 2009, 11:47 AM
What evidence would satisfy you that Bigfoot is NOT real? In other words, what would prove a universal negative to your satisfaction?

Every report of bigfoot or bigfoot tracks would have to have a verified explanation or be proven to be false(hoax, lie,etc.).

I don't see this happening so it looks like I'll be going round and round on JREF for awhile. I'm enjoying the mental workout some of you are giving me.

Now, I'm putting together a bigfoot excursion to the site I found. It's going to be $500 per person....not really.:)

RoboTimbo
2nd March 2009, 12:12 PM
Every report of bigfoot or bigfoot tracks would have to have a verified explanation or be proven to be false(hoax, lie,etc.).

I don't see this happening so it looks like I'll be going round and round on JREF for awhile. I'm enjoying the mental workout some of you are giving me.

Now, I'm putting together a bigfoot excursion to the site I found. It's going to be $500 per person....not really.:)


I just wanted to make sure that everyone, including you, understood that there is NOTHING that will ever convince you of the non-existence of Bigfoot. Which means it is a belief system for you. I think everyone, except you, already understood that.

Z
2nd March 2009, 12:13 PM
Every report of bigfoot or bigfoot tracks would have to have a verified explanation or be proven to be false(hoax, lie,etc.).

In other words, there's really no way you'll stop believing in Bigfoot, as long as there's at least one obscure or ancient reported sighting that no one has the ability to disprove, or as long as people still keep claiming to see Bigfoot.

So, like me, you're a pseudo-skeptic.

Now, I'm putting together a bigfoot excursion to the site I found. It's going to be $500 per person....not really.:)

LOL!

tsig
2nd March 2009, 12:30 PM
Every report of bigfoot or bigfoot tracks would have to have a verified explanation or be proven to be false(hoax, lie,etc.).

I don't see this happening so it looks like I'll be going round and round on JREF for awhile. I'm enjoying the mental workout some of you are giving me.

Now, I'm putting together a bigfoot excursion to the site I found. It's going to be $500 per person....not really.:)


Then here's my bigfoot report:

The other day I heard a loud knock on my door I wasn't surprised as I was expecting a delivery but when I opened the door there was a 7 foot 350 pound hairy ape/man. The stink drove the cat under the couch then BF pushed past me ane into the kitchen were it found a can of beans. I tought to gain it's trust by showing it how to use a can opener but i was backhanded into my stereo system ruining my million dollar Hogwart cable system. I got up enraged but was stopped in my tracks by a truely unbelievable sight. BF was trying to open the can with a screwdriver!!!

As I stood frozen in shock BF gave out with a window(and eardrum) shattering shout and ripped out thru the back door and jumped off the deck. As luck would have it a herd of wild boar ran out of the woods and ol' Bf grabbed one of them and threw it 100'. It was a sight many here have envied.

I ask that you read my words with an open mind and not prejudge.

GT/CS
2nd March 2009, 12:30 PM
Every report of bigfoot or bigfoot tracks would have to have a verified explanation or be proven to be false(hoax, lie,etc.).

I don't see this happening so it looks like I'll be going round and round on JREF for awhile. I'm enjoying the mental workout some of you are giving me.

Now, I'm putting together a bigfoot excursion to the site I found. It's going to be $500 per person....not really.:)

Sounds a little like this gem regarding Patty's diaper from someone at the BFF.

"My logic is simply if [B]one view is not a diaper, there is no diaper no matter how odd it looks from the side."

jbh1970jbh
2nd March 2009, 01:04 PM
I just wanted to make sure that everyone, including you, understood that there is NOTHING that will ever convince you of the non-existence of Bigfoot. Which means it is a belief system for you. I think everyone, except you, already understood that.

I just mentioned a few posts ago that verification of every track or sighting as false or explainable would convince me. It's not my fault that it's nearly impossible to do.

Skeptisicm doesn't mean you're always going to prove you were right. I can believe in electricity without being able to explain exdactly how it works.

William Parcher
2nd March 2009, 01:12 PM
Skeptisicm doesn't mean you're always going to prove you were right.

The burden of proof is always on the original claimant. Bigfoot skepticism did not exist prior to the original claims of Bigfoot.

jbh1970jbh
2nd March 2009, 01:14 PM
Then here's my bigfoot report:

The other day I heard a loud knock on my door I wasn't surprised as I was expecting a delivery but when I opened the door there was a 7 foot 350 pound hairy ape/man. The stink drove the cat under the couch then BF pushed past me ane into the kitchen were it found a can of beans. I tought to gain it's trust by showing it how to use a can opener but i was backhanded into my stereo system ruining my million dollar Hogwart cable system. I got up enraged but was stopped in my tracks by a truely unbelievable sight. BF was trying to open the can with a screwdriver!!!

As I stood frozen in shock BF gave out with a window(and eardrum) shattering shout and ripped out thru the back door and jumped off the deck. As luck would have it a herd of wild boar ran out of the woods and ol' Bf grabbed one of them and threw it 100'. It was a sight many here have envied.

I ask that you read my words with an open mind and not prejudge.

If there was only some way for people to look through a door before opening it...

Drewbot
2nd March 2009, 01:22 PM
I just mentioned a few posts ago that verification of every track or sighting as false or explainable would convince me. It's not my fault that it's nearly impossible to do.


It is not impossible, all it takes is for you to accept the possibility that there are more likely explanations, then "BIG HAIRY NA PRIMATE, WITH FIRM KNOCKERS" Once you accept the possibility that your experience in your bedroom was sleep paralysis, then you have to say to yourself, 'which is more likely?' and determine if you think it is more likely that your brain tricked you, or if a trio of Sleestaks was trying to grapple with you in your house.

JimBenArm
2nd March 2009, 01:25 PM
I just mentioned a few posts ago that verification of every track or sighting as false or explainable would convince me. It's not my fault that it's nearly impossible to do.

Skeptisicm doesn't mean you're always going to prove you were right. I can believe in electricity without being able to explain exdactly how it works.
Ah, but your belief in electricity is backed up by more than belief. There is actual theory and proof behind it.

You see, your problem is that you think we need to prove every report false. No, this is exactly backwards. There has to be more proof behind it, proof that stands up to scrutiny. A reasonable theory as to what these animals could be that excludes bears, hoaxers, mistaken identity. Physical proof, such as carcasses, bones, fur that can be DNA tested. The Bigfoot believers have to come up with this, not blurry photos, films of questionable authenticity, fur or hair that can't be tested, or just eye witness testimony. None of the evidence to date fits the bill. None of the the reports are proof of anything. You can continue to believe what you want to, but until there is proof of the nature I outlined, there is no way in hell I'm buying it.

I'm not saying Bigfoot isn't possible. Just that there hasn't been anything even remotely approaching proof of their existence. And until there is, I remain unconvinced.

RoboTimbo
2nd March 2009, 03:03 PM
I just mentioned a few posts ago that verification of every track or sighting as false or explainable would convince me. It's not my fault that it's nearly impossible to do.

Skeptisicm doesn't mean you're always going to prove you were right. I can believe in electricity without being able to explain exdactly how it works.


Skepticism means that the default position would be to suspect the mundane.

The pseudo-skeptical viewpoint is be to suspect the fantastical until someone can prove a universal negative to you.

You are pseudo-skeptical. You are cynical of the mundane explanations offered to you and are willing to believe in an unknown, unfound, unevidenced putative large hairy hominid for which no compelling video, photographic, DNA, hair, stool, footprint, buttprint, skullcap, skeleton, dermal ridge, thermal, or audio evidence exists. Notice the accent is on believe in.

makaya325
2nd March 2009, 03:09 PM
The burden of proof is always on the original claimant. Bigfoot skepticism did not exist prior to the original claims of Bigfoot.

But of a bigfoot skeptic claims a bigfoot is a suit in a certain film, its the skeptics burden to prove it, not the proponents

William Parcher
2nd March 2009, 03:53 PM
But of a bigfoot skeptic claims a bigfoot is a suit in a certain film, its the skeptics burden to prove it, not the proponents


The burden of proof remains with the original claimant... the film shows a Bigfoot (not guy in suit).

makaya325
2nd March 2009, 04:04 PM
The burden of proof remains with the original claimant... the film shows a Bigfoot (not guy in suit).

No, thats not how it works. If someone claims the film shows a suit, the burden of proof is on the person claiming a suit

William Parcher
2nd March 2009, 04:12 PM
No, thats not how it works.


...because the world is your oyster.

kitakaze
2nd March 2009, 04:26 PM
If there was only some way for people to look through a door before opening it...

Wow. I'm sorry I've not yet been caught up in this thread so far, GHB. You've got some very interesting ideas and we need to have a kind of pow wow here. First of all, none of these cheap a simps can really think outside the box. All that matters here is facts and logic and evidence. I mean, c'mon. It's boring right? Besides, how do you get concrete evidence for something that as engineered not to allow any? We're dealing with plans and intelligences and conflicts here that make The Prophecy look like an argument about who left three spoonfuls of non-fat yogurt in the fridge.

You're on the right path in some ways but you need to get the real picture. First of all, the genetic engineering angle is excellent. But the whole fallen angel element is an easy mistake. The Infiltrators (Bigfoot) are genetic manipulants that are bred on Earth by the Grey aliens and given certain stealth capabilities. They are used for off-world interplanetary conflicts on rugged montane worlds that may be gravitically challenging. The Sleestak-type beings you mention, those are the well-reported reptoids which are also genetic manipulants that preceded the Infiltrators (Bigfoot) and may serve some sort of command/officer function.

The angels that you speak may have been some early variant codes leaning towards ship to ship atmospheric combat and land approach comprimised facility assault. BTW, regarding the quaint Judeo-Christian philosophies you allude to, please see the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin as he expounds the true enlightenment of the Lotus Sutra and the Mystic Law. If you like I can perform shakubuku which is to invalidate your mistaken religious beliefs and put you on the path to true wisdom. But that's another story.

Here is a primer for the real information you need to know about Bigfoot.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=128526

Oh yes, and please don't listen to anything that Gaytan character tells you about extraterrestrials. He/she may be sniffing glue.

Word.

kitakaze
2nd March 2009, 04:30 PM
No, thats not how it works. If someone claims the film shows a suit, the burden of proof is on the person claiming a suit

Why not? Please explain in detail why the original claimants putting the PGF forward as evidence of Bigfoot are excused from the burden of proof. You can do this, right?

No. You can't and won't. Post a blurb-fart to dodge instead, my puppet.

makaya325
2nd March 2009, 04:48 PM
Why not? Please explain in detail why the original claimants putting the PGF forward as evidence of Bigfoot are excused from the burden of proof. You can do this, right?

No. You can't and won't. Post a blurb-fart to dodge instead, my puppet.

YOU IGNORE the fact that if someone not thinks, but CLAIMS the pgf is a suit, the BURDEN OF PROOF is on them and only them

kitakaze
2nd March 2009, 05:40 PM
YOU IGNORE the fact that if someone not thinks, but CLAIMS the pgf is a suit, the BURDEN OF PROOF is on them and only them

Thank you, for dancing for me.

You are the one ignoring, little mak. The claim is by Bigfoot enthusiasts. Show me the skeptic here who asserts as fact that the PGF is a man in a suit.

Patty fans assert that there is just no way that Patty can be a man in a suit. That's it's impossible to be a man in a suit. Do not run away. This is the claim. The original claim is that the PGF shows a Bigfoot. Why are those that make the claim excused from the burden of proof? If you are not an intellectual coward, please explain this.

You will not do this because you are ineffectual in your arguments.

kitakaze
2nd March 2009, 05:50 PM
BTW, little mak, please post your blurb-fart dodge post reply in the PGF 3 thread after quoting the above post. This is GHB's thread and you should stick to the topic.

bluforMD
2nd March 2009, 07:13 PM
Kewl, I was with 4th POG and have their coin back in the day for a while.

Behind the green fence

We have more than one thing in common.

makaya325
2nd March 2009, 08:10 PM
Thank you, for dancing for me.

You are the one ignoring, little mak. The claim is by Bigfoot enthusiasts. Show me the skeptic here who asserts as fact that the PGF is a man in a suit.

Patty fans assert that there is just no way that Patty can be a man in a suit. That's it's impossible to be a man in a suit. Do not run away. This is the claim. The original claim is that the PGF shows a Bigfoot. Why are those that make the claim excused from the burden of proof? If you are not an intellectual coward, please explain this.

You will not do this because you are ineffectual in your arguments.

I never claimed it MUST be a sasquatch, but many of skeptics here CLAIM it is a suit, therefore, the burden of proof is on them, not proponents

YOU all along have claimed its a suited man.

Z
2nd March 2009, 08:40 PM
I never claimed it MUST be a sasquatch, but many of skeptics here CLAIM it is a suit, therefore, the burden of proof is on them, not proponents

YOU all along have claimed its a suited man.

The initial claim is that the PGF shows a sasquatch. That's the claim that must be proven first.

To date, it hasn't been.

Subsequent claims by some people should also be proven, but failure to do so does not mean the original claim stands unchallenged.

Without claims, the footage itself is essentially meaningless. It's usually presented out of any viable context, without any additional support material, and with the claim that it's 'proof' of Bigfoot - which it certainly is not.

Therefore, the true burden of proof lies on those who claim that it shows Bigfoot.

arthwollipot
2nd March 2009, 11:18 PM
I've been reading more into sleep paralysis. One thing that stands out is the relation between these experiences and the acompanying feeling of evil and/or harm. Why do so many cultures and people associate this experience with hags, ghosts, demons, etc.? If it is a purely physiological event, shouldn't the associated feelings and emotions be more evenly distributed between bad, good and everything in between?

I could see waking up paralysed and panicking. If my brain was conscious during the event, it would make more sense if I said, "I can't move, someone help me!" Why would the mind make the leap to thinking reptilian beings where pulling me out of bed.The discussion of sleep paralysis is a little off-topic here, but there are plenty of other threads on the forum that you can look at for answers. Here I'll restrict myself to saying that the phenomenon of sleep paralysis is always accompanied by a feeling of dread. It just doesn't happen any other way, so there's no reason to expect any good feelings about it. Back on topic:

YOU IGNORE the fact that if someone not thinks, but CLAIMS the pgf is a suit, the BURDEN OF PROOF is on them and only themWhat is the default assumption? That the film is of a bigfoot, or that the film is of a man in a suit?

I propose that the default assumption should be the latter, and the burden of proof is therefore on the person making the contrary claim. Here's why.

We have had plenty of evidence that people can wear fur suits. From Star Wars to the perennial gorilla suit in your favourite sitcom, we know that human beings can wear fur suits from time to time.

We have not had the same level of evidence for the existence of bigfoot. The "evidence" in this case is all circumstantial (footprints which may or may not be genuine) or of poor quality (PG Film and similar).

The evidence that men in suits exist therefore far outweighs the evidence that bigfoot exists. Therefore it is logical to assume that the PG film is of a man in a suit until demonstrated otherwise.

makaya325
3rd March 2009, 02:06 PM
The discussion of sleep paralysis is a little off-topic here, but there are plenty of other threads on the forum that you can look at for answers. Here I'll restrict myself to saying that the phenomenon of sleep paralysis is always accompanied by a feeling of dread. It just doesn't happen any other way, so there's no reason to expect any good feelings about it. Back on topic:

What is the default assumption? That the film is of a bigfoot, or that the film is of a man in a suit?

I propose that the default assumption should be the latter, and the burden of proof is therefore on the person making the contrary claim. Here's why.

We have had plenty of evidence that people can wear fur suits. From Star Wars to the perennial gorilla suit in your favourite sitcom, we know that human beings can wear fur suits from time to time.

We have not had the same level of evidence for the existence of bigfoot. The "evidence" in this case is all circumstantial (footprints which may or may not be genuine) or of poor quality (PG Film and similar).

The evidence that men in suits exist therefore far outweighs the evidence that bigfoot exists. Therefore it is logical to assume that the PG film is of a man in a suit until demonstrated otherwise.

Thank you for the explanation. If the film is poor quality, why is it ok for skeptics to say that they see seams and water bags, but when proponents say "i see muscle", its considered pareldoia? Hypocrisy?

LONGTABBER PE
3rd March 2009, 02:09 PM
Thank you for the explanation. If the film is poor quality, why is it ok for skeptics to say that they see seams and water bags, but when proponents say "i see muscle", its considered pareldoia? Hypocrisy?

Because I said so

JimBenArm
3rd March 2009, 02:09 PM
If the film is of poor quality, is it okay to point out it's of poor quality?

makaya325
3rd March 2009, 02:38 PM
If the film is of poor quality, is it okay to point out it's of poor quality?

Thats all you can conclude. Its a poor quality film. Skeptics are experiencing parelodia when they see "Keys, seams, water bags, zippers".

JimBenArm
3rd March 2009, 06:17 PM
Thats all you can conclude. Its a poor quality film. Skeptics are experiencing parelodia when they see "Keys, seams, water bags, zippers".
And believers aren't?

kitakaze
3rd March 2009, 07:07 PM
I never claimed it MUST be a sasquatch, but many of skeptics here CLAIM it is a suit, therefore, the burden of proof is on them, not proponents

YOU all along have claimed its a suited man.

Not exactly. Roger filmed a primate that the natives knew existed

Busted.

kitakaze
3rd March 2009, 07:10 PM
Thats all you can conclude. Its a poor quality film. Skeptics are experiencing parelodia when they see "Keys, seams, water bags, zippers".

Where do they do that, little mak?

I've already provided proof that the zipper claim came from footers.

desertgal
3rd March 2009, 07:14 PM
Skeptics are experiencing parelodia when they see "Keys, seams, water bags, zippers".

You can, of course, support that statement by proving, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that skeptics are experiencing paredolia?

Oh, wait. That's right. I forgot who was making the claim. :rolleyes:

drapier
3rd March 2009, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
I never claimed it MUST be a sasquatch, but many of skeptics here CLAIM it is a suit, therefore, the burden of proof is on them, not proponents

YOU all along have claimed its a suited man.
Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Not exactly. Roger filmed a primate that the natives knew existed


Busted.

Well, humans are primates, and the Indians certainly knew about humans, so I guess Mak is unintentionally correct.

Z
3rd March 2009, 07:54 PM
I have to admit, I don't see all that in the film either - except for a leg-seam that seems blatantly obvious.But having never seen an upright primate like that before, and having seen numerous people in ape-suits, I know which one comes to mind first.

GT/CS
3rd March 2009, 08:04 PM
Mak, try to use some common sense with this.

Everyone was cruising along, living their happy lives, then in 1967 some putz and his "Indian guide" present a film of a large bipedal hairy primate that they claim is bigfoot.

Why would the burden of proof not be on the person claiming that such a bigfoot exists?

Using your logic (or serious lack thereof) if I make a film of the Flying Spaghetti Monster the burden of proof would be on you to prove it is a fake.

arthwollipot
3rd March 2009, 11:37 PM
Wait one minute - didn't the guy who wore the suit in the PG film actually confess a couple of years ago? I'm pretty sure I saw something about that on Is It Real? or some similar show.

Belz...
4th March 2009, 05:30 AM
I believe there is a direct connection between UFO/"aliens" and the Bigfoot phenomena. I believe "aliens" are not from other planets, but they are the Biblical fallen angels.

Bigfoot, angels and aliens, oh my !

Now if we can only find a way to fit ghosts, homeopathy and Feng Shui into all this, we'll finally have our theory of everything!!!

Evolved Wookie
4th March 2009, 05:38 AM
Bigfoot, angels and aliens, oh my !

Now if we can only find a way to fit ghosts, homeopathy and Feng Shui into all this, we'll finally have our theory of everything!!!

The bigfoots apply Feng Shui to the forests so that the correct energies flow into the water table, carrying with them the Goodness of the Forests. This eventually reaches the oceans where it is diluted to homeopathic potency before evaporating into clouds. Clouds are, you see, the only things saving us (by application of their homeopathic powers) from a plague spread by evil ghosts of Nazis.

...not sure about the ghost bit, but I was struggling...

jbh1970jbh
4th March 2009, 08:56 AM
Bigfoot, angels and aliens, oh my !

Now if we can only find a way to fit ghosts, homeopathy and Feng Shui into all this, we'll finally have our theory of everything!!!

There are a some other things, including ghosts, that I could fit into this.

I figured starting out with Bigfoot and UFOs/aliens in the same thread would invite more than enough skeptisicm.

desertyeti
4th March 2009, 09:12 AM
Jon Eric Beckjord has apparently been reincarnated.
Oooo...there's another one...reincarnation!

Belz...
4th March 2009, 10:13 AM
There are a some other things, including ghosts, that I could fit into this.

Of course. Woo-woos often try to simplify things in a way that makes the world easier for them to understand.

Here's the catch, though:

The world doesn't care whether or not you understand.

jbh1970jbh
4th March 2009, 10:46 AM
Of course. Woo-woos often try to simplify things in a way that makes the world easier for them to understand.

Here's the catch, though:

The world doesn't care whether or not you understand.

If they didn't care this site wouldn't exist.

Do you really think that because I think bigfoot is a product of fallen angels that this idea somehow simplifies my view of the world?

I don't simplify to gain understanding, I gain understanding to simplify things.

aggle-rithm
4th March 2009, 10:50 AM
If they didn't care this site wouldn't exist.

Do you really think that because I think bigfoot is a product of fallen angels that this idea somehow simplifies my view of the world?

I don't simplify to gain understanding, I gain understanding to simplify things.

By "gain understanding", you don't by any chance mean "make stuff up", do you?

Galaxie
4th March 2009, 12:22 PM
Wait one minute - didn't the guy who wore the suit in the PG film actually confess a couple of years ago? I'm pretty sure I saw something about that on Is It Real? or some similar show.

The guy you're thinking of is Bob Hieronimus.

Unfortunately, bigfooters think the PGF shows an unknown primate, so of course they think Bob H. is a fraud.

William Parcher
4th March 2009, 12:37 PM
The guy you're thinking of is Bob Hieronimus.

Unfortunately, bigfooters think the PGF shows an unknown primate, so of course they think Bob H. is a fraud.

This is of course intrinsically true, but there is more to say. There are BF skeptics who think Patty is a hoax but also that BH is not the guy in the suit. There are even other variations such as BF believers who think Patty is a hoax - with some believing BH and some not.

Belz...
4th March 2009, 01:01 PM
If they didn't care this site wouldn't exist.

By "the world", I meant "the world", jbh, not "the people of the world". The universe cares not for your whims.

Do you really think that because I think bigfoot is a product of fallen angels that this idea somehow simplifies my view of the world?

Yes. Yes I do.

I don't simplify to gain understanding, I gain understanding to simplify things.

That's actually nonsensical.

kitakaze
4th March 2009, 01:04 PM
There are a some other things, including ghosts, that I could fit into this.

I figured starting out with Bigfoot and UFOs/aliens in the same thread would invite more than enough skeptisicm.

Yes, have you reviewed the primer on the Infiltrators (Bigfoot) true nature I linked for you?

jbh1970jbh
4th March 2009, 01:12 PM
By "the world", I meant "the world", jbh, not "the people of the world". The universe cares not for your whims.



Yes. Yes I do.



That's actually nonsensical.

Oops. I left out a word:

"I don't simplify things to gain understanding, I gain understanding to simplify things"

I usually don't like these nonsensical-sounding phrases but I do like that one. I think it makes sense.

jbh1970jbh
4th March 2009, 01:16 PM
Yes, have you reviewed the primer on the Infiltrators (Bigfoot) true nature I linked for you?

I glanced at the post and wasn't sure if you're serious or not. I will take a look at it when I get a chance.

Galaxie
4th March 2009, 01:48 PM
This is of course intrinsically true, but there is more to say. There are BF skeptics who think Patty is a hoax but also that BH is not the guy in the suit. There are even other variations such as BF believers who think Patty is a hoax - with some believing BH and some not.

Thanks for posting that. I actually started to type some stuff mentioning the variations, but I got lazy. :o

kitakaze
4th March 2009, 02:06 PM
I glanced at the post and wasn't sure if you're serious or not. I will take a look at it when I get a chance.

It's pretty major stuff. Though many people around here would scoff at it, I have a few even hardened skeptics that have shown interest. Here's the tip of the iceburg:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_896149235852d5577.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14296)

nq7_5DZ3Ik8

You are seeing what some believe are the first documented examples of particle weapon use against Infiltrators (Bigfoot) in some of their first off-world conflict deployment. Some of the remains of this conflict can also be seen here:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_89614960fb33b9d4b.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14762)

It's massive and can be a bit bewildering at first but I can walk you through the basics.

Belz...
4th March 2009, 06:37 PM
Oops. I left out a word:

"I don't simplify things to gain understanding, I gain understanding to simplify things"

I usually don't like these nonsensical-sounding phrases but I do like that one. I think it makes sense.

If it's nonsensical then it doesn't make sense no matter what you think.

I Ratant
4th March 2009, 07:11 PM
In the late 19th century a meteor was observed to land in the area where the Foot lives.
No one of the numerous searchers for the remnants of the impact mentioned anything about a large hominid.

Belz...
5th March 2009, 05:25 AM
Late 19th ? The meteor was the spaceship in which they crashed!

I Ratant
5th March 2009, 10:19 AM
By George you've nailed it!
That is the ONLY explanation!
And ever since then, they've been avoiding humanity because our backwardness re-spaceflight prevents them from going home, they preferring a life in the wilderness eating roots and berries and worms and living in caves to migrating into suburbia with supermarkets and mass transportation and airconditioning.
It's gotta be hot in those hair suits!

makaya325
5th March 2009, 01:14 PM
Mak, try to use some common sense with this.

Everyone was cruising along, living their happy lives, then in 1967 some putz and his "Indian guide" present a film of a large bipedal hairy primate that they claim is bigfoot.

Why would the burden of proof not be on the person claiming that such a bigfoot exists?

Using your logic (or serious lack thereof) if I make a film of the Flying Spaghetti Monster the burden of proof would be on you to prove it is a fake.

If YOU CLAIMED it was a fake, the BURDEN OF PROOF is on you to demonstrate that. If you are skeptical, thats fine, but unless you have the suit, your posts are opinions

LTC8K6
5th March 2009, 02:38 PM
If YOU CLAIMED it was a fake, the BURDEN OF PROOF is on you to demonstrate that.

No. The unusual claim generally has the burden. A man in a suit is not unusual and is most likely the correct explanation of the PGF. A new large bipedal primate is the unusual claim requiring strong backing.

If it looks like a man in a suit to you, then saying so is enough, since a man in a suit is not out of the ordinary. You would not be making an extraordinary claim.

If it looks like a new large bipedal primate to you, then saying so is not enough, since you are making the extraordinary claim. You need to back up your extraordinary claim with a lot more evidence.

There is nothing in the PGF that rules out the ordinary claim of "man in suit". That ordinary claim fits what is seen. There is no need to accept the extraordinary claim of "new large bipedal primate" without strong evidence to dispute the ordinary claim.

LONGTABBER PE
5th March 2009, 02:39 PM
No. The unusual claim generally has the burden. A man in a suit is not unusual and is most likely the correct explanation of the PGF. A new large bipedal primate is the unusual claim requiring strong backing.

If it looks like a man in a suit to you, then saying so is enough, since a man in a suit is not out of the ordinary. You would not be making an extraordinary claim.

If it looks like a new large bipedal primate to you, then saying so is not enough, since you are making the extraordinary claim. You need to back up your extraordinary claim with a lot more evidence.

There is nothing in the PGF that rules out the ordinary claim of "man in suit". That ordinary claim fits what is seen. There is no need to accept the extraordinary claim of "new large bipedal primate" without strong evidence to dispute the ordinary claim.


Do you really think you got thru?

This is like dealing with another "savvy" troll I know

xblade
5th March 2009, 06:32 PM
If YOU CLAIMED it was a fake, the BURDEN OF PROOF is on you to demonstrate that. If you are skeptical, thats fine, but unless you have the suit, your posts are opinions

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u258/ploppyseed/YouFail_001.jpg

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u258/ploppyseed/YouFail_001.jpg

kitakaze
5th March 2009, 06:34 PM
If WE CLAIMED it was real, the BURDEN OF PROOF is on us to demonstrate that. If we are believers, that's fine, but unless we have the body, our posts are opinions.

Fixed it.;)

Drewbot
6th March 2009, 06:27 AM
I swear we had this exact same conversation with someone(s) in the 411 PGF Thread.
Am I misremembering? or am I correct?

LTC8K6
6th March 2009, 02:28 PM
Do you really think you got thru?

Sure! Even as we type, makaya is in the woods searching...

Simon39759
6th March 2009, 03:46 PM
But of a bigfoot skeptic claims a bigfoot is a suit in a certain film, its the skeptics burden to prove it, not the proponents


I think, burden of proof is the wron way to go, it is not mentioned in the scientific method.

The way I see it, you have a phenomenon (the presence of the hairy hominid on the film) and two explanations for it.
Both explanations work equally well at explaining the phenomenon and -arguably- neither of these explanations have been definitely falsified yet.

Even then... One of the explanation, the 'Man in the suit' one, is very parsimonious, we know that similar suits exist and that people commit pranks and even that Big Foot related pranks are particularly numerous.
The alternative explanation, on the other hand, is much less parsimonious.

So, the default position should be to privilege the man in the suit explanation, at least until you can disprove it or that additional evidence, the proof of Big-Foot's existence, make the second explanation more parsimonious...

Ps- The Mitch Hedberg's quote is funny.

JcR
6th March 2009, 05:16 PM
I swear we had this exact same conversation with someone(s) in the 411 PGF Thread.
Am I misremembering? or am I correct?

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=131&pictureid=746

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=131&pictureid=745

amb
8th March 2009, 03:25 AM
I just happened on this thread through another thread. I cant believe my eyes. Are there really people out there that actually believe this Sasquatch b/s.?
Evidence please, where is your evidence?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. :rolleyes:

arthwollipot
8th March 2009, 10:15 PM
I just happened on this thread through another thread. I cant believe my eyes. Are there really people out there that actually believe this Sasquatch b/s.?
Evidence please, where is your evidence?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. :rolleyes:I think they're quibbling right now about what "extraordinary" means.

dafydd
9th March 2009, 04:28 AM
I would like to say I don't think one has to accept this theory as true to gain salvation. It's just a side issue of my religion that no one has answered yet. I want to know what the Bible is talking about when they mention "Giants in the land.." and, about the sons of God taking the daughters of men.[/

It's talking nonsense,it's not true.

Drewbot
9th March 2009, 04:48 AM
Evidence please, where is your evidence?

Plenty of evidence the footers will tell you. Footprints of unknown feet, sighting reports, Mysterious howls in the night.

Any good, reliable evidence? Ummm. Nope.



Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. :rolleyes:

I'm still trying to convince 'Foot-ry that the claim IS indeed extraordinary.

dafydd
9th March 2009, 04:49 AM
I don't have pics. I could sketch what the clearing and footprints looked like if you want.

I don't think bigfoot is a fallen angel. I think bigfoot is a result of genetic engineering of fallen angels trying to create offspring.

I think the 3 beings that appeared to me are fallen angels. I don't know if they really look like Sleestaks, or if they just appeared that way to me. There are other reports of aliens appearing as reptilian, grey, or nordic. I would say Sleestak is definitely reptilian.

Where is your proof (other than anecdotal) that these 'fallen angels' exist?
If you have no proof,then just say so.

dafydd
9th March 2009, 04:52 AM
This is an interesting point. I've thought about this as a possible explanation. There are a few reasons why I ruled this out.

1. I enjoy a good prank as much as any other prankster. You have the setup, which is fun. You have the reaction of the pranked, also fun. Then you have the big payoff where you come out and tell them, "Ha ha ha, I got you sucker!" You may even enjoy the reaction after they realize they have been pranked.

What doesn't make sense to me is why would you go through with a prank with no payoff.

2. How would they know which way I was going to walk to take a leak? If I would have seen them while walking from are AO to our pickup point, the prank explanation would make more sense. They could have put them right along side the truck making sure one of us saw them as we loaded up.

Would they really put them 100yds from us in the hope that we might go that way?

3. Your story of people walking around making fake bigfoot prints is believable and funny. I might even pull that in the future myself. But, it still wouldn't explain the second set of tracks. Did they also make small tracks next to the bigfoot tracks?

You'll believe anything except the truth.

amb
10th March 2009, 04:17 AM
http://www.bfro.net/avevid/jacobs/2_creature_med.jpg

Is this what the fuss is all about?

amb
10th March 2009, 04:18 AM
Looks like an ordinary primate to me! ;)

Drewbot
30th March 2009, 06:53 AM
I probably should add "A Fallen Angel" to the bottom of my 'Bigfoot is...' Tshirt.

Correa Neto, would that be an acceptable alteration?

http://www.cafepress.com/drews_tshirts.312064407

Rodibidably
30th March 2009, 09:01 AM
jbh1970jbh,
Here is one idea that may help you communicate with the members of this forum a bit easier...

Create (and post) a list of ALL of the assumptions your ideas are based on (for example, one assumption would be the existence of angels).
Create (and post) a list of the best physical evidence you have (or know of) that supports your ideas.
Create (and post) a list of the best non-physical evidence you have (or know of) that supports your ideas.
Create (and post) a detailed description of exactly what your idea is.
Create (and post) a detailed explanation of how your assumptions and evidence lead you to your idea.

wendyinthewind
10th May 2009, 03:32 PM
You said they were invisible, so I asked how you knew they were pink.

It is not a stupid question! RETRACT!! RETRACT!! ;)


it's their aura that is pink, silly!:fg:

mikeyx
10th May 2009, 06:06 PM
Looks like an ordinary primate to me! ;)

except its a bear

makaya325
10th May 2009, 07:27 PM
except its a bear

A very strange looking bear :eek:

arthwollipot
10th May 2009, 11:47 PM
A pink bear?