The latest Rapture Ready antics...

[c4ts]

Today's antics are not knowing what "Christian" means, while being it.
http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117881

[c4ts]

And they kicked me off for posting evidence that Christians were a majority in the United States.

[geni]

Originally posted by c4ts
And they kicked me off for posting evidence that Christians were a majority in the United States.

I can't help wondering how these people would handle living in Europe. Then they really would be living in the country they seem to think they are living in. (yes we know Europe is not a country)

[triadboy]

Originally posted by c4ts
And they kicked me off for posting evidence that Christians were a majority in the United States.

You destroyed their feeling of isolated persecution! You Bastard!

[ebola]

You got the boot? THAT certainly didn't take very long. Who would have guessed?

I've got a joke...

In the distant future, c4ts dies, and much to his surprise, there actually is a heaven. Since c4ts lived a good life, and didn't commit too many egregious acts, St. Peter admits him to paradise. As c4ts walks through the Pearly Gates, he is assigned an angel to give him a tour of the place, so that he can make himself at home. After seeing his permanent beachside mansion, they stroll past the free five star restaurants, the concert halls, and the immense parks only to come to a stop at a giant stone wall. Giant is an understatement; it continues to the left and to the right as far as the eye can see, and has no discernable top. c4ts asks the angel "What's behind the wall?" The angel replies " Oh, that's the Rapure Ready crowd. They like to think they're the only ones up here."

Eric

[Yahweh]

Hey, looks like I've got the boot also...

Note to self: Dont make announcements of my username the next time I visit a Christian messageboard.

Hey, at least I wasnt being an ass, I gave good sound advice (i.e.: I was booted for being an evil atheist).

[Zep]

Originally posted by ebola
I've got a joke...

In the distant future, c4ts dies, and much to his surprise, there actually is a heaven. Since c4ts lived a good life, and didn't commit too many egregious acts, St. Peter admits him to paradise. As c4ts walks through the Pearly Gates, he is assigned an angel to give him a tour of the place, so that he can make himself at home. After seeing his permanent beachside mansion, they stroll past the free five star restaurants, the concert halls, and the immense parks only to come to a stop at a giant stone wall. Giant is an understatement; it continues to the left and to the right as far as the eye can see, and has no discernable top. c4ts asks the angel "What's behind the wall?" The angel replies " Oh, that's the Rapure Ready crowd. They like to think they're the only ones up here."

Eric No, the punch-line should really be: "That's to keep the Rapture Ready crowd apart from their earthly enemies again...if they ever get here."

[CaveatxEmptor]

Yahweh,

This is something a friend of mine pointed out to me when I was trying to appear as a christian to pose some logical questions without being summarily ignored as an meddlesome atheist, that is, all of the points you pose to the Rapture Readies are logical arguments absent of emotional rhetoric or witty sayings that doesn't really prove what they assert.

They can spot a nonbeliever a mile away because they use and respond to logic instead of dogma.

...and I'm not being facetious. That's really how they set you apart. I find that to be tragically humorous.

Yours In Christ,

Ryan.

[T'ai Chi]

Originally posted by Yahweh

Note to self: Dont make announcements of my username the next time I visit a Christian messageboard.


DUH!

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

These people need blainetology!~

[c4ts]

They kicked me out and I didn't break a single rule. It's probably because I presented well documented evidence of the fact, and because they refuse to consider anyone who believes in Christ "Christian" unless it has to do with them. No wonder they feel so isolated. They are too dumb to reach out to their Christian brothers. What's so great about feeling isolated, anyway? I hate feeling isolated. That's why I go out an make friends, that's why I have a life (it isn't much but at least I've got one), that's why I don't waste all my time worrying about a stupid out of date prophecy made by some Ancient Roman on hallucinogenic rye.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Yahweh
Hey, looks like I've got the boot also...

Note to self: Dont make announcements of my username the next time I visit a Christian messageboard.

Hey, at least I wasnt being an ass, I gave good sound advice (i.e.: I was booted for being an evil atheist).

I doubt they bother reading anybody's posts. The only connection they have is Billiefan and he never reads anything.

[bozothedeathmachine]

Originally posted by c4ts
And they kicked me off for posting evidence that Christians were a majority in the United States.

c4, you silly boy. You should know they are against evidence of any type. Ironically, you are evidence of that.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by bozothedeathmachine


c4, you silly boy. You should know they are against evidence of any type. Ironically, you are evidence of that.

They prefer heresay and conjecture, and those are kinds of evidence.

[TruthSeeker]

c4, did I miss it or did the moderator post about your banning?

I found the thread baffling.

"We are a minority"
"No, actually, we (ha ha!) are not."
"Those 76% aren't 'real'. We are a minority.
Now go away"


Hey, Yahweh, where did you get banned? Same thread?

I haven't been activated yet. Oh well...

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Originally posted by !Xx+-Rational-+xX!
These people need blainetology!~

I'm right!

[Candace]

Originally posted by c4ts
And they kicked me off for posting evidence that Christians were a majority in the United States.

Well, you just busted in and gave them statistics that they weren't a little persecuted group. They feel special about that.

Don't take away someone's victimhood without expecting to get your arm ripped off for you.

And, as I read it, if the poster says he (or she) is christian, then that's all it takes. Everybody else, on the other hand, had better have a signed note from YHVH or they're just deluded.

Organized religion ...... isn't.

[TruthSeeker]

I have to give them credit for a couple of interesting threads about Joyce Meyer. She's a televangelist. I've never seen her show. The posters are on to her being a money-hungry fraud. Others who trusted her are expressing a sense of betrayal. It is interesting and honest, I think. It would be like the posters here finding out Randi uses a psychic to plan his life.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Hey, Yahweh, where did you get banned? Same thread?

Well, for starters, I dont think I mentioned anything about myself beyond "I'm looking forward to my time on RaptureReady" (i.e. I never said nor denied I was a Christian, I never gave out personal details about myself - even my gender was obscure -, I never stated I was from JREF).

I did not violate any of the rules on RaptureReady. For reference, here they are (extraneous information truncated):

* No vulgarities or profanity
* No blasphemy

I may have violated this one as I maintained the "Old Earth" adage. I also gave relationship advice that did not revolve around "You're a woman, the bible tells you submit to what your husband craves" (Note: That is a summary of one such post I saw... some of those RR kids make me wretch).

* No cultic material
* No copyright material

I like to use a lot of sources to write my posts, I always give the name of my source (and I dont go overboard with the amount of material I reference).

* No links to immoral sites

Ok, one of my sources was a book called "Human Evolution", another was "TalkOrigins.net", but those cant be considered immoral, can they?

* No spamming
* No slandering the character of a board participant

Some person posted this brilliant argument: "Scientists say Jupiter is 4.5 billion years old, Mars is 4.5 billion years old, and the Sun is 4.5 billion years old... but then they also say the Earth is 5 billion years old, how can the Earth be older than the sun?". I used Mad.sci (http://madsci.wustl.edu/MS_search.html) to reference an article about the age of the earth (4.5 billion years old) and the age of the sun (~5 billion years old). At the end of my post, I wrote "Make sure you have accurate information, otherwise you dont have a strong arguement". Could that possibly be considered slander? And if so (which it's not), does it warrant a banning?

* No selling of products
* No date speculation
* No posting of discussions from other board's threads
* No arguing various end-times positions outside of the Rapture Discussion forum
* No "I'm a Better Christian than You" games

(Source: http://www.rr-bb.com/rules.php?s= )


I dont know where or why I was banned, I'm just assuming the forum administrators were using the Bible to justify prejudice (just a tad of emotional appeal :D )... I was banned for being an evil atheist.

[Lord Emsworth]

Well, on www.rr-bb.com there seems to be some sort of hidden rule that says that you have to be a Christian (one of the persecuted kind :D ) to be able to post anywhere outside of the Apologetics subforum. At least I was told that I, although welcome, "must confine" my posts to and "stay in Apologetics".

And I shall comply...







...the option of blocking these people's siglines is simply too valuable to lose. ;)

[Roadtoad]

I'm not sure whether I should laugh, choke, or vomit. C4ts, you have way more patience than this old beat up trucker. I'd have smoked out the front three pews of these "believers."

What a load of outright crap. "Oh, WE'RE the REAL Christians." Please.

[WildCat]

Well, what did you expect from a board that produces threads like this? (http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?threadid=118101)
:D

[c4ts]

I still don't understand why anyone would need to feel persecuted. It must be some kind of "evidence" for their interpretation of Revelations.

Then again, it all looks like some kind of an "I'm a better Christian than you game," where nobody else is good enough to be called "Christian." Isn't there a forum rule against that?

[Hypocolius]

C4ts, I assume you are heavenlierealm over there? If so, then I think that someone had a look at your sig and realised you were taking the p*ss, actually your username should have given it away! Pretty funny though!

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by c4ts
Then again, it all looks like some kind of an "I'm a better Christian than you game," where nobody else is good enough to be called "Christian." Isn't there a forum rule against that?

Not just that. Cultic material isn't allowed either ("If the leader of your group just happens to be a god, you might be edging into the cultic category. ") But to be a REAL CHRISTIAN, you will have to surrender your life to Jesus, who is , sort of, God.

:D

[triadboy]

Originally posted by c4ts
I still don't understand why anyone would need to feel persecuted.

I would wager the majority of these people are lonely and feel they've been dealt a bad hand in life. This isolation and persecution breeds sympathy in Christianity.

In Xianity - we are all sinners right out of the womb. Life is an ordeal that must be overcome, until you can rest your tired head on the breast of sweet Jesus.

The people on Rapture Ready have smiling avatars, but ultimately they are sad folks who are waiting for a better life in the beyond.

Of course, once they die and cease to exist, it's a moot point. However, the people left behind revel in the thought the deceased are in "heaven" playing hacky-sack with the Lord.

[bignickel]

The One True Scotsman - citizen of every nation on this planet.

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by triadboy


I would wager the majority of these people are lonely and feel they've been dealt a bad hand in life. This isolation and persecution breeds sympathy in Christianity.

In Xianity - we are all sinners right out of the womb. Life is an ordeal that must be overcome, until you can rest your tired head on the breast of sweet Jesus.

The people on Rapture Ready have smiling avatars, but ultimately they are sad folks who are waiting for a better life in the beyond.

Of course, once they die and cease to exist, it's a moot point. However, the people left behind revel in the thought the deceased are in "heaven" playing hacky-sack with the Lord.

You've missed another point in all of this, (no, not your fault): Out of their decision to be miserable, (and that's really what it is), they have been taught that there is some sort of honor, some manner of integrity in being sad and unhappy. It amounts to a brand of "Holiness," and if you're a little more "Holy" than the next guy, you won't be left behind.

It's like the old story about the two hunters who shot a bear, but they didn't kill it. This made the bear a little mad. One pulls off his hiking boots and puts on sneakers. His buddy says, "You can't outrun that bear." "I don't have to. I just have to outrun you." (Oddly enough, I actually heard a pastor use this in a sermon.)

In other words, I just have to be holy enough to get in, just holy enough to cut you off at the gate.

Which, when you think about it, is rather cruel.

[RebeccaBradley]

The delusion of being persecuted is a classic symptom of an apocalyptic cult, which is basically what our friends over at RR constitute. Persecution is regarded both as a sign of the end times, as a source of cohesion, and as a marker of separation between the elect and the hellbound (the rest of us). Notice that non-apocalyptic Xians are more interested in things like ecumenism and social change, and "persecution" is not something that's even on their radar screens.

A good resource re this phenomenon is Millennium, Messiahs, and Mayhem: Contemporary Apocalyptic Movements, edited by Thomas Robbins and Susan J. Palmer (1997, but still current).

[the_ignored]

Man! For those of you who have a Rapture Ready/Rapture Obsessed account, check this out in the members only section: This is a thread in the forum:
Pre-Trib Rapture Oasis (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?threadid=116216) !


Sheesh! And I thought I was a whiner!

(not that I'm NOT a whiner, though. I really am...):hit: :id: :re: :v:

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by the_ignored
Man! For those of you who have a Rapture Ready/Rapture Obsessed account, check this out in the members only section: This is a thread in the forum:
Pre-Trib Rapture Oasis (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?threadid=116216) !


Sheesh! And I thought I was a whiner!

(not that I'm NOT a whiner, though. I really am...):hit: :id: :re: :v:


I found it so very sad. They are obviously living very empty lives or they are unable to appreciate what they do have in life. It is like "the grass is always greener". It is a cruel game which in the end costs them the one life they do have to live. I wish they'd wake up and live their lives.

[Kilted_Canuck]

Grrr, I know I registered a few months ago, and finally got accepted (with a name that could be construed as pro- or anti-christian ;) ), but I totally forget the name and let my hotmail account I used go unactive, so it looks like I'll be registering again. :(

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Hypocolius
C4ts, I assume you are heavenlierealm over there? If so, then I think that someone had a look at your sig and realised you were taking the p*ss, actually your username should have given it away! Pretty funny though!

I was Blessed_Savior, but the mods disabled my account.

[Yahweh]

I almost feel sorry for those kids. With their beliefs, they might as well have the mind of a schizophrenic.

After having read much of the bible, then having it explained by SparkNotes (http://www.sparknotes.com), I have concluded this: A person who actually reads the bible believes less in God than one who never touches the thing.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Yahweh


Well, for starters, I dont think I mentioned anything about myself beyond "I'm looking forward to my time on RaptureReady" (i.e. I never said nor denied I was a Christian, I never gave out personal details about myself - even my gender was obscure -, I never stated I was from JREF).


I am thoroughly an atheist, but I must admit I find your handle "Yahweh" a bit offensive. Not that I'd ever make it an issue out of it, or even mention it if it were not already being discussed.

So I'm offended? So what!? You're "Yahweh" in this forum and I'll ignore my offendedness and address what you say when I'm interested.

By the way, it's spelled "Pascal's wager", not "Pascal's wadger". I know spelling flames are the lowest kind, but it's irritating and you say worthwhile things about it.

Fix that.

[c4ts]

I thought it was a transliteration of how a drawling hick would say it, like "faghter" and "wrassle."

[triadboy]

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred
I am thoroughly an atheist, but I must admit I find your handle "Yahweh" a bit offensive.

Hebrew didn't have vowels, so it's just a guess that "Yahweh" is the right name. The name might be "Yehweh" or "Yohwoh".

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by c4ts


I doubt they bother reading anybody's posts. The only connection they have is Billiefan and he never reads anything.

I am reading your post so that should count for something though.

[geni]

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred


I am thoroughly an atheist, but I must admit I find your handle "Yahweh" a bit offensive. Not that I'd ever make it an issue out of it, or even mention it if it were not already being discussed.


Well I'm not an atheist and I don't find it offensive.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


I am reading your post so that should count for something though.

Ah then it should be corrected to state, billiefan doesn't understand what he reads.

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by Chanileslie


Ah then it should be corrected to state, billiefan doesn't understand what he reads.

Oh, he understands it, even. He simply chooses to ignore what it is he's read. Either that, or he dismisses it with a sanctimonious wave of his hand, declaring that the writer is simply displaying his hatred of the sacred. He's far worse than an ignoramus: Billiefan is the embodiment of prejudice and bigotry.

Think of him as Jedi Knight in Assemblies of God drag.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
I have to give them credit for a couple of interesting threads about Joyce Meyer. She's a televangelist. I've never seen her show. The posters are on to her being a money-hungry fraud. Others who trusted her are expressing a sense of betrayal. It is interesting and honest, I think. It would be like the posters here finding out Randi uses a psychic to plan his life.


I and many others are onto her and others like her,but sadly there arent enough people who know the truth to expose them for what they are doing,but I am hoping Meyer and others get exposed the way frauds like Richard Eby and Robert Tilton and Peter Popoff and Jim Baker and others were busted.



Truthseeker,if you check out:

http://www.levitt.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=005998


it isnt just the RR who is onto the TBN Preachers con games. Some on the ZOLA LEVITT BOARDS are onto Joyce Meyer's scam's as well.



also:

http://www.christian-witness.org/not_in_pubs/drjoyce.html

explains why Joyce Meyer isnt a Doctor as some call her sometimes and is something everyone here should read.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by c4ts
And they kicked me off for posting evidence that Christians were a majority in the United States.


Since when is Christians a Majority in the USA.


Unless you count Lukewarm Christians like the Gay Preachers in the Episcopal and Catholic Churches and those on TBN who commit fraud and bunko in the name of God as Christians than yes,Christians are a Majority in the USA.

[geni]

So catholics are not christians? I that catholics tend to disagree.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by geni
So catholics are not christians? I that catholics tend to disagree.

Catholics who believe Jesus Christ is the Son of GOd are Christians.

You see some Protestants and Catholics dont believe in what John 14:6 says:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


How can you be considered a Christian if you dont believe what John 14:6 says.


Look,I have no beef with Catholics or any Christian Group

I only have a problem with anyone who claims to be Christian,whether they be Baptists or Catholics or Methodists or any other Christian Group that dont believe what John 14:6 says

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by billiefan2000



Since when is Christians a Majority in the USA.


Unless you count Lukewarm Christians like the Gay Preachers in the Episcopal and Catholic Churches and those on TBN who commit fraud and bunko in the name of God as Christians than yes,Christians are a Majority in the USA.

Ah, the old 'No True Scotsman' fallacy.

An oldy but a goody.

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


Ah, the old 'No True Scotsman' fallacy.

An oldy but a goody.

I guess I fit into Billiefan's "Lukewarm" crowd. Or not. (Notice, he never answered what I said earlier. No surprise.)

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Roadtoad


I guess I fit into Billiefan's "Lukewarm" crowd. Or not. (Notice, he never answered what I said earlier. No surprise.)

I think his definition of "Lukewarm Christian" is "anyone who isn't a slack-jawed frothing at the mouth fundie", since you strikeme as neither slack jawed, nor frothing at the mouth, nor a fundie, I would suppose that you are right.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


I think his definition of "Lukewarm Christian" is "anyone who isn't a slack-jawed frothing at the mouth fundie", since you strikeme as neither slack jawed, nor frothing at the mouth, nor a fundie, I would suppose that you are right.

Nyarlathotep,I consider a Lukewarm Christian to be those who dont take their Christian Faith seriously.

It dont mean you have to be a fundie to be a real Christian,you just got to take your faith seriously somewhat.


Most TBN Preachers and Most Liberal Preachers in the Churches I consider to be Lukewarm cause they dont believe what they preach.


If you want 2 examples of Lukewarm Christians:


Joyce Meyer and Benny Hinn

[calladus]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


Nyarlathotep,I consider a Lukewarm Christian to be those who dont take their Christian Faith seriously.

In what ways are you not lukewarm?

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
Since when is Christians a Majority in the USA.

Unless you count Lukewarm Christians like the Gay Preachers in the Episcopal and Catholic Churches and those on TBN who commit fraud and bunko in the name of God as Christians than yes,Christians are a Majority in the USA.

Billiefan, let me explain something to you, and I hope you will understand what I'm trying to say (I'd say this on the Rapture boards, but someone told the forum administrators that new user Vendyokus is bad apples...):

Yes, Billiefan, Christianity is a majority in America. But you kids at RaptureReady are different. You Rapture Kids are the minority, you constantly feel like you are claim to be persecuted for your beliefs (actually, you are being persecuted for your character... it sounds crazy, but people like me dont take kindly to people like you who try to justify prejudice in the name of religion), you kids are no different than any other appocalyptic cult you could find in the world. I'll tell you what Christianity is:

Christianity is a religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
(source: Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=christianity))

That is Christianity, and Christianity is a majority in the United States. There are nearly 1 billion Christians in the world, Christianity is among one of the top 5 Religions in the world.

You dont have any concept of what a real Christian is...

Billiefan, read this post I made fairly recently (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870188823#post1870188823). Its something very important, its specifically for all you and the Rapture Kids can read.

Billiefan, I'm not certain but I've gathered that you happen to live fairly close to my location in the US. I'd like to chat with you in person, I'm afraid you skim over the things that I type.

Believe me, if I wasnt banned from the RaptureReady boards already, I'd still be posting there. I could challenge everybodies beliefs in the Rapture, Jesus, Tribulations, and all sorts of bible mumbo-jumbo.

No, I have nothing against you at all, I would just like to see you make some sense of your backwards beliefs (you can start by asking "How old is the Earth", "If God exists, who made God", "How accurate and complete is the bible", etc. etc. etc.).

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by Yahweh


Billiefan, let me explain something to you, and I hope you will understand what I'm trying to say (I'd say this on the Rapture boards, but someone told the forum administrators that new user Vendyokus is bad apples...):

Yes, Billiefan, Christianity is a majority in America. But you kids at RaptureReady are different. You Rapture Kids are the minority, you constantly feel like you are claim to be persecuted for your beliefs (actually, you are being persecuted for your character... it sounds crazy, but people like me dont take kindly to people like you who try to justify prejudice in the name of religion), you kids are no different than any other appocalyptic cult you could find in the world. I'll tell you what Christianity is:

Christianity is a religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
(source: Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=christianity))

That is Christianity, and Christianity is a majority in the United States. There are nearly 1 billion Christians in the world, Christianity is among one of the top 5 Religions in the world.

You dont have any concept of what a real Christian is...


Hate to do this, but I feel a need to jump in here before I scream my lungs out.

At 43 years of age, I am looking back on my 20+ years in Christianity, and wondering if that time was wasted. Granted, I met my beautiful and gracious wife, Peggy, through the Church, and we raised our kids in the Church, but at the same time, I look back at our beliefs, and what they led us to, and I have got to wonder if I did the right thing.

Not take the kids out trick or treating on Halloween? Maybe not such a hot idea in a day and age when pedophiles are treated as "sick," rather than criminal, but in some of the communities where we've lived, maybe that wouldn't have been such a bad thing. What does it hurt to go around and collect candy, (or pass it out), and then scarf it down until you're comatose? A childhood activity we've all grown up with is an evil? Why?

No Santa Claus? No Tooth Fairy, or Easter Bunny? When we're dealing with little kids, why wouldn't you teach them that there are generous people out there, and they should be one, too. Once they're old enough, why not reveal to the kids that it's a good thing to give?

No booze? No beer? No wine? Why? To excess is frowned upon by everyone, regardless of religious belief? Why is it so evil to have a beer when you're a believer? Maybe I'd have been a gentler man, and a kinder one, if I'd taken the time to have a beer with a friend, instead of telling him what Jesus did for me, and why I can't go around polluting my body.

Why does everything need to have a religious background to it? What's the point? What's truly been gained by my "belief?" Have I won anyone over to a better life? Or have I simply led others into a self-induced delusion, that by playing these games, I can somehow influence God into allowing me into His presence, and maybe permitting me to exist in an eternity which isn't so hostile. (If you ask me, that sounds a lot like witchcraft.)

What have I given my kids? Do they really know how much I love them? Or are they simply accepting me because by accident of birth, I'm their Dad?

Let's face it: Billiefan will not see this. There's no reason to. Right now, things are stylin', and he's got his place reserved on the corner of Hallelujah Square.

Let's see how things look in a few years, when things really matter.

[geni]

Originally posted by Yahweh





That is Christianity, and Christianity is a majority in the United States. There are nearly 1 billion Christians in the world, Christianity is among one of the top 5 Religions in the world.



Last time I checked there were about 900million catholics alone total number of christians was over the 1.5 billion mark.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by geni
Last time I checked there were about 900million catholics alone total number of christians was over the 1.5 billion mark.

Oops, I should have checked my information first.

From Religious Tolerence - Religions of the world: numbers (http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm):

Religion
Christianity

Date Founded
30 CE

Sacred Texts
The Bible

Membership
2,015 million

% of World
33% (dropping)

So there are 2 billion Christians in the world... but I'm sure all but 144,000 of them arent actually true Christians :D.

[Zep]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
You see some Protestants and Catholics dont believe in what John 14:6 says:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

How can you be considered a Christian if you dont believe what John 14:6 says.

I only have a problem with anyone who claims to be Christian,whether they be Baptists or Catholics or Methodists or any other Christian Group that dont believe what John 14:6 says What about all the rest of the same book? Shouldn't they believe in that too?

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
Catholics who believe Jesus Christ is the Son of GOd are Christians.

You see some Protestants and Catholics dont believe in what John 14:6 says:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


How can you be considered a Christian if you dont believe what John 14:6 says.

Have you actually read the bible?

The bible contradicts itself everwhere as to what gets you salvation.

<table style="font-size:10pt;" width="100%"><tr><td width="50%" align="left" valign="top">Salvation by faith alone:
Mk.16:16
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Jn.3:18, 36
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already .... He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

Acts 16:30-31
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."

Rom.1:16-17
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God salvation to every one that believeth .... As it is written, The just shall live by faith."

Rom.3:20
"By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight."

Rom.3:28
"A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

Rom.4:2
"For if Abraham were justified by works he hath whereof to glory?"

Rom.4:13
"For the promise ... was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith."

Rom.5:1
"Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Gal.2:16
"A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ."

Gal.3:11-12
"The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith."

Eph.2:8-9
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast."

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."
</td><td width="50%" align="left" valign="top">Salvation is by works alone
Ps.62:12
"For you render to each one according to his works."

Jer.17:10
"I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings."

Mt.12:37
"For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

Mt.16:27
"For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works."

Mt.19:17
"If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Lk.10:26-28
"He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."

Jn.5:29
"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Rom.2:6, 13
"Who 'will render to each one according to his deeds'. For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified."

2 Cor.5:10
"For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."

2 Cor.11:15
"Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works."

Jas.2:14
"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?"

Jas.2:17
"Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

Jas.2:21-25
"Was not Abraham our father justified by works? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rabab the harlot also justified by works? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

1 Pet.1:17
"The Father, who without pariality judges according to each one's work."
</td></tr></table>

Most people like me suggest taking an allegorical approach to understanding the bible, taking a literal approach will only get you nowhere (and it would put you in prison if you actually did everything God commanded you to do...).

Look,I have no beef with Catholics or any Christian Group

I only have a problem with anyone who claims to be Christian,whether they be Baptists or Catholics or Methodists or any other Christian Group that dont believe what John 14:6 says
What about those who dont believe in the Creation story, a big Flood, a talking Bush, or any of the supernatural aspects of the Bible?

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by Yahweh
(and it would put you in prison if you actually did everything God commanded you to do...).

That's the persecution REAL CHRISTIANS have to face.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Yahweh


Oops, I should have checked my information first.

From Religious Tolerence - Religions of the world: numbers (http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm):


So there are 2 billion Christians in the world... but I'm sure all but 144,000 of them arent actually true Christians :D.

33% is the largest percentage of any one religion in the world. It's even bigger than Islam. After seeing how atheism only at %2.5, I would like to see Christians explain this "atheist crowd" which is apparently some kind of majority that persecutes them.

[The Don]

Because only the little itty bitty sect I'm involved in are true Christians, the rest have all been seduced by satan (which is pretty useful if only 144,000 are going to be saved anyway)

[El Greco]

Maybe 144,000 is just the current capacity of Paradise. You wouldn't want a crowded paradise with fat guys accidentaly stepping on your foot, would you ? And foul smell of sweat all over the place, eh ?

But maybe there are plans to expand the facilities or rent new ones. Renting the Maracana stadium for example would increase Paradise's capacity by 100,000.

Just an idea...

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by c4ts
33% is the largest percentage of any one religion in the world. It's even bigger than Islam. After seeing how atheism only at %2.5, I would like to see Christians explain this "atheist crowd" which is apparently some kind of majority that persecutes them.


How can you be sure all those atheists are even true atheists? Maybe Atheists really are the majority, they just dont want to admit it!



:D

[ceo_esq]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


Ah, the old 'No True Scotsman' fallacy.

An oldy but a goody. I don't think this is actually an example of NTS, which implies an ad hoc change in definition.

BillieFan hasn't shifted the terms here; his definition of "Christian" has always been a narrow one.

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by ceo_esq
I don't think this is actually an example of NTS, which implies an ad hoc change in definition.

BillieFan hasn't shifted the terms here; his definition of "Christian" has always been a narrow one.

But what scares me is that he seems to groove on that narrow definition, and enjoys the thought of other people suffering for eternity in Hell.

That, it would seem to me, would disqualify him for Heaven right off the top. But then, maybe not, considering the "God" he worships.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Yahweh


Oops, I should have checked my information first.

From Religious Tolerence - Religions of the world: numbers (http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm):


So there are 2 billion Christians in the world... but I'm sure all but 144,000 of them arent actually true Christians :D.

Man that site is cool. I loved following the links around to all the christian groups that did studies to try to prove that atheists had no morals. (15 points if you can show which group had more morals in their study (crime rates, divorce rates, etc))

I didn't find one on homosexuality, but I'm willing to bet, that someone who is a homosexual is just as likely to be an atheist or a theist. I in fact work with someone who is a hard core, right winder, christian fundementalist homosexual.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Yahweh



How can you be sure all those atheists are even true atheists? Maybe Atheists really are the majority, they just dont want to admit it!



:D

You might as well resort to a conspiracy theory because there's no evidence for that whatsoever.

[DarkPrimus]

Originally posted by c4ts


You might as well resort to a conspiracy theory because there's no evidence for that whatsoever.

Well, of COURSE there isn't any evidence! Atheists just want to be the persecuted minority!

;)

[the_ignored]

I love how they try to fit anything into their "end times" scenario:

For instance, in a thread about some potential new medical progress here (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1354794#post1354794), someone posted this (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1354967#post1354967)
quote from bernieol:
Also, there is some belief that the Antichrist will recover from a mortal wound.....maybe this a step in allowing that to happen.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh my goodness!
You are SO right! THIS breakthrough in modern medicine could very well be how the AC recovers from a MORTAL head wound!
It may not be such a supernatural miracle after all, it could just be due to MAN'S increased knowledge of medicine and unquenchible quest for longevity.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by DarkPrimus


Well, of COURSE there isn't any evidence! Atheists just want to be the persecuted minority!

;)

Then don't persecute them because you will only be helping them out.

[rdaneel]

Originally posted by the_ignored
I love how they try to fit anything into their "end times" scenario:



Recent Wired (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,61357,00.html) article

Meanwhile, Applied Digital has attracted scorn from some fundamentalist Christians, who believe that VeriChip is the fabled "mark of the beast" of biblical lore. According to the book of Revelation, Satan will someday force people to "receive a mark" on their hands or foreheads in order to buy or sell.

"This is a gigantic step toward the mark of the beast, " said Gary Wohlscheid, whose website, These Last Days Ministries, keeps tabs on what many Christians believe are the signs of a coming religious Armageddon. His site is one of dozens that link VeriChip to the apocalyptic prophecy.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by El Greco
Maybe 144,000 is just the current capacity of Paradise. You wouldn't want a crowded paradise with fat guys accidentaly stepping on your foot, would you ? And foul smell of sweat all over the place, eh ?

But maybe there are plans to expand the facilities or rent new ones. Renting the Maracana stadium for example would increase Paradise's capacity by 100,000.

Just an idea...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 2 witnesses and the 144,000 will be preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ after the Rapture of the Church happens



During the first half of the 7 year Tribulation Period, two men will prophesy for 42 months (3 1/2 years).

They have the power to shut up the sky from sending rain during the time of their prophesying, turn water into blood, and smite the earth with plagues (Rev. 11:6).

At the end of the 42 months, the Antichrist will kill them and they will lie in the streets of Jerusalem for three and a half days.

Then God will resurrect them and they will be caught up into heaven with their enemies beholding them (Rev. 11:7-12).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by billiefan2000

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 2 witnesses and the 144,000 will be preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ after the Rapture of the Church happens



During the first half of the 7 year Tribulation Period, two men will prophesy for 42 months (3 1/2 years).

They have the power to shut up the sky from sending rain during the time of their prophesying, turn water into blood, and smite the earth with plagues (Rev. 11:6).

At the end of the 42 months, the Antichrist will kill them and they will lie in the streets of Jerusalem for three and a half days.

Then God will resurrect them and they will be caught up into heaven with their enemies beholding them (Rev. 11:7-12).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Funny you say the “devil” also knows the Bible well but yet he is the only one who does not know he gets it in the end?

Not too smart he has the game plan, the script right in his hand but does not make the simple changes needed to win.

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by Pahansiri


Funny you say the “devil” also knows the Bible well but yet he is the only one who does not know he gets it in the end?

Not too smart he has the game plan, the script right in his hand but does not make the simple changes needed to win.

You know, that's one of the things I kept running into. I never could figure out why Satan, knowing he's going to get his @$$ whupped, didn't just give up and kick back with a Corona on the beach at Mazatlan. "Hi, I'm Satan, Lord of the Damned. I'm retired. How 'bout you?"

[rdaneel]

I once thought up a gag newscast on that subject.

"In a surprise move, Lucifer Morningstar has announced that he will not be participating in the upcoming Apocalypse. In a statement released today, The Prince of Darkness revealed that he was boycotting Armageddon due to a rigged outcome.
No comment yet from God."

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by billiefan2000

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 2 witnesses and the 144,000 will be preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ after the Rapture of the Church happens



During the first half of the 7 year Tribulation Period, two men will prophesy for 42 months (3 1/2 years).

They have the power to shut up the sky from sending rain during the time of their prophesying, turn water into blood, and smite the earth with plagues (Rev. 11:6).

At the end of the 42 months, the Antichrist will kill them and they will lie in the streets of Jerusalem for three and a half days.

Then God will resurrect them and they will be caught up into heaven with their enemies beholding them (Rev. 11:7-12).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Billiefan, here's a serious question:

Why do you believe the bible?

[Yahweh]

Sparknotes: New Testament - Revelation (http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/newtestament/section9.rhtml):
Introduction

The Book of Revelation is strikingly different from the rest of the New Testament. It is populated by winged and wild creatures, locust plagues, and seven-headed beasts. Revelation is filled with obscure and fantastic symbolism, and it teems with mystical references. However, it lacks any real internal structure. Unlike the other New Testament books, which tend to mix narrative with sermon-style preaching, Revelation is essentially a long, uninterrupted record of a mystical vision, offering little interpretation for its intricate symbols. Revelation has been read for thousands of years as a code that, properly interpreted, can reveal the secrets of history and the end of the world. The numbers and symbols in Revelation have been read into any number of traumatic events in ancient and modern history.

Revelation was a product of this time of early growth and confusion, but also of a long Jewish tradition of apocalyptic literature. The Old Testament books of Ezekiel and Zechariah contain long apocalyptic segments. The most famous Old Testament apocalypse, the Book of Daniel, was written circa 165 b.c.. The apocalyptic genre became more popular after 70 a.d., when the apocryphal apocalypses, 2 Baruch and 4 Ezra, were written in response to the destruction of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem by Roman armies. There is enough apocalyptic literature that it can be classified as a genre of its own, with its own particular characteristics. Some of these common features are revelations made to a human emissary through a supernatural agency, heavy symbolism, numerology with obscure significance, extravagant imagery, and concern about a cataclysmic day of judgment or the end of the world. Apocalyptic literature tends to take a deterministic view of history—that is, apocalypses are generally driven by the belief that history inexorably follows a set path ordained by God. All of these characteristics of the apocalyptic genre are present in Revelation.

Summary

...

Before the breaking of the seventh seal, an angel marks 144,000 people—12,000 from each of the tribes of Israel—with the seal of God to protect them from the coming devastation. Other righteous people, too, are to be saved: a “great multitude . . . [of people] from all the tribes and peoples and languages” have cleansed themselves and they, too, will be protected (7:9). Finally, it is time to open the seventh seal (8:1). But the opening of the seal is anticlimactic; when it is opened, it is revealed that there are seven trumpets that need to be blown. Four of the trumpets blow, each bringing with it disaster and destruction, with fire falling from the sky (8:6–12). With the fifth trumpet, the chimney leading out of the Abyss is unlocked, and bizarre locusts emerge in the smoke, stinging anyone unmarked by God’s seal. The sixth trumpet unleashes a vast troop of cavalry who kill “a third of humankind” (9:18). However, the survivors nevertheless refuse to stop worshipping idols and behaving immorally. An angel descends from heaven, announcing the imminent fulfillment of “the mystery of God” with the blowing of the seventh trumpet (10:7).

...

Analysis

...

Revelation’s heavy use of imagination and provocative symbolism is central to its rhetorical power. Revelation turns to poetics and aesthetics to depict the imperial city of Rome as a beast, stating that “its feet were like a bear’s and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth” (13:2). The beast has ten horns and seven heads and carries on its back “Babylon the great, mother of whores, and of the earth’s abominations” (17:5).

...

John’s potent imagery is not only a “call for the endurance and faith of the saints” (13:10), but it also tries to move the audience to a decision to turn away from the beast “so that you do not take part in her sins” (18:4), and instead to turn toward the God of justice who “will wipe away every tear from their eyes” (21:4). Revelation persuades Christians to stake their lives on that decision. In Babylon, everything is for sale. John does not hedge about the immorality of such disparities between the rich and the poor. When Babylon is destroyed, neither God, Christ, the saints, the apostles, nor the prophets mourn. Those who are upset are “the merchants of the earth” (18:11) and “all whose trade is on the sea” (18:17). In addition, “the kings of the earth, who committed fornication and lived in luxury with her will weep and wail” (18:9).

[BroodingSkill]

You know, that's one of the things I kept running into. I never could figure out why Satan, knowing he's going to get his @$$ whupped, didn't just give up and kick back with a Corona on the beach at Mazatlan. "Hi, I'm Satan, Lord of the Damned. I'm retired. How 'bout you?"

Actually it's Vegas baby, hanging out, making time with the demon chics, wishing Frank and the pack were still around, well what can ya do?

But seriously...



Roadtoads post is certainly one of the best I've read this year. (the one where you were talking about what your belief cost you)When I finally let go of all religous and woo woo belief, I realized that morality and virtue were not the sole property of religion. I choose to make my own way, not relying on some words in a book or what others tell me is the right thing to do, say or think. I will not do whats right just to secure my little corner in paradise, or out of fear of some being I've never seen, I'll do it because I have empathy for my fellow man, or to right an obvious injustice.

We have to live our own lives in the here and now. I have nothing against Billiefan or any other believer for that matter. They have made their choice. I don't go looking to change their ways, I might make a few challenges now and then, or ask a question, but in the end I don't care what they believe.

They have to reach the point of questioning their beliefs on their own, no one can force them to. If they never do than so be it.

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by BroodingSkill


Actually it's Vegas baby, hanging out, making time with the demon chics, wishing Frank and the pack were still around, well what can ya do?

But seriously...



Gotta say, love the avatar, BS. (Coop rocks!)

[c4ts]

Unfortunately, I have uncovered some unusual truths about atheists. Most of them belong to the Illuminata, but don't even realize it. The Illuminata like to select their members by driving men paranoid by irradiating their food, then letting the victims point out who they think are in. So most atheists don't realize they're in the Illuminata, and even fewer athiests realize they are atheists. What look like non-baptist Christian establishments are really secret subliminal message transmission centers to their atheist members. With the help of mind control technology developed by Tesla and grey aliens woo woo woo woo woo cloaking device woo woo woo woo conspiracy woo woo psychics woo woo mediums woo woo woo woo woo... JESUS HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED BY DEVIL WORSHIPPING ALIEN WITCHES LED BY CHARLES DARWIN!!!

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by c4ts
Unfortunately, I have uncovered some unusual truths about atheists. Most of them belong to the Illuminata, but don't even realize it. The Illuminata like to select their members by driving men paranoid by irradiating their food, then letting the victims point out who they think are in. So most atheists don't realize they're in the Illuminata, and even fewer athiests realize they are atheists. What look like non-baptist Christian establishments are really secret subliminal message transmission centers to their atheist members. With the help of mind control technology developed by Tesla and grey aliens woo woo woo woo woo cloaking device woo woo woo woo conspiracy woo woo psychics woo woo mediums woo woo woo woo woo... JESUS HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED BY DEVIL WORSHIPPING ALIEN WITCHES LED BY CHARLES DARWIN!!!

SHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Keep it down! Do you want Billiefan to find out!?!?!

[Some Friggin Guy]

Originally posted by c4ts
Unfortunately, I have uncovered some unusual truths about atheists. Most of them belong to the Illuminata, but don't even realize it. The Illuminata like to select their members by driving men paranoid by irradiating their food, then letting the victims point out who they think are in. So most atheists don't realize they're in the Illuminata, and even fewer athiests realize they are atheists. What look like non-baptist Christian establishments are really secret subliminal message transmission centers to their atheist members. With the help of mind control technology developed by Tesla and grey aliens woo woo woo woo woo cloaking device woo woo woo woo conspiracy woo woo psychics woo woo mediums woo woo woo woo woo... JESUS HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED BY DEVIL WORSHIPPING ALIEN WITCHES LED BY CHARLES DARWIN!!!

I don't believe it! I don't think they would have taken the time away from their covert recruitment by means of Dungeons and Dragons.

[BroodingSkill]

Roadtoad wrote
Gotta say, love the avatar, BS. (Coop rocks!)


It's too bad he's a member of the Church of Satan(you know Anton LeVeys bunch), but I've found his art to be interesting and challenging nevertheless.

Ah, what the heck, I like the way he draws those demon chics!

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by Yahweh


Oops, I should have checked my information first.

From Religious Tolerence - Religions of the world: numbers (http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm):


So there are 2 billion Christians in the world... but I'm sure all but 144,000 of them arent actually true Christians :D.

c4,anyone can call themself a christian,and just because someone calls themself a christian dont make them a christian.

also,the 144,000 mentioned in the book of revelation talk about those from the 12 tribes of Israel who will along with the 2 witnesses will preach the gospel during the tribulation and bring many to a relationship with the lord Jesus Christ

[Kopji]

During the first half of the 7 year Tribulation Period, two men will prophesy for 42 months (3 1/2 years). - billefan2000


Seems a minor correction, but this is not what Revelation 11:3 actually says, this is your interpretation of what it says. The KJV word is actually "witnesses".

There are a few sects that would take exception to changing the word, because to them the word is understood to mean something more abstract, like additional scripture, not a man or person.

Not that I really care, but I have read several times that authors of 'end times' books can not be held responsible for the hatred and distrust they inspire 'because they are just presenting what is written in Scripture'.

'Truth' is not on the solid foundation it seems with fundamentalists, but they adjust it to fit their worldview. (yeah, just like the rest of us).

[c4ts]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


c4,anyone can call themself a christian,and just because someone calls themself a christian dont make them a christian.

also,the 144,000 mentioned in the book of revelation talk about those from the 12 tribes of Israel who will along with the 2 witnesses will preach the gospel during the tribulation and bring many to a relationship with the lord Jesus Christ

The information from the survey I posted was not taken from polled individuals who said they were Christians. I don't know how I can stress that any further. Instead, leaders of religious communities, meaning Imams, Rabbis, Priests, (etc...) were asked for the number of people in their congregations who regularly attended services and participated in church related activities. A Christian is, by definition, one who follows the teachings of Christ. Church activities and services are directed in such a way that Christ cannot be ignored. For example, sermons are constructed as interpretations of Christ's teachings, and food drives hosted by a church are held in order to follow Christ's intentions that men be charitable. Therefore it is highly unlikely that a non-Christian would regularly attend a church's activities and services.