An Ex-Nazis Words of Wisdom

[a_unique_person]

From the book "A Mind in Prison", by Bruno Manz, comes some timely advice.

"My father was a German chauvinist, who soon fell into Hitler's wide open arms. His nationalistic conceit is perhaps exemplified by his favourite saying, 'The German character one day will cure the world'. He spoke of Germany as the nation of poets and philosophers, and implied, as did the Nazis, that Germany was the cradle of culture (the word 'Civilisation', interestingly, was out of favour). I wholeheartedly embraced this hubris because it presented itself so clevely as age-old wisdom in poetic form. Little did I know that collective pride is a narcotic for the mentally homeless".

Hmmmm, I think there's something in that for all of us.

[Tony]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


Hmmmm, I think there's something in that for all of us.


I agree, hubris and blind over-confidence is a danger to every movement/ideology.

[Skeptic]

Obviously, you mean to imply that SOMEBODY is acting "chauvinistically" today, is claiming to be the "cradle of civilization", and that this is bad. But you don't tell us WHO. This insinuation--typical of your methods--is rather annoying.

Do you mean, perchance, the claims by some in the Muslim and/or Arab world to be an "ancient civlization" far superior to the "corrupt" west? Are you trying to criticize Bin Laden's religious chauvinism? Are you warning Mahatir whatshisface (of the recent "Islamic Nations' Council" fame) that his hatered of jews is the recourse of the "mentally homeless"? Or perhaps you mean that Mugabe's claim that Zimbzbewe's return to a "superior and free" civilization of "mother Africa" (no whites allowed) might not be such a hot idea?

There are SO MANY candidates here... it's hard to say which one you mean. Please enlighten us as to who, exactly, is the "nazi" in question.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Skeptic
Obviously, you mean to imply that SOMEBODY is acting "chauvinistically" today, is claiming to be the "cradle of civilization", and that this is bad. But you don't tell us WHO. This insinuation--typical of your methods--is rather annoying.

Do you mean, perchance, the claims by some in the Muslim and/or Arab world to be an "ancient civlization" far superior to the "corrupt" west? Are you trying to criticize Bin Laden's religious chauvinism? Are you warning Mahatir whatshisface (of the recent "Islamic Nations' Council" fame) that his hatered of jews is the recourse of the "mentally homeless"? Or perhaps you mean that Mugabe's claim that Zimbzbewe's return to a "superior and free" civilization of "mother Africa" (no whites allowed) might not be such a hot idea?

There are SO MANY candidates here... it's hard to say which one you mean. Please enlighten us as to who, exactly, is the "nazi" in question.

They all sound like good candidates. If I was to say, as you want me to, that the US should consider these words, then I think it should. However, the Australian Prime Minister is no less guilty of the weaknesses mentioned, and a documentary on the delights of living under the Taliban showed pretty clearly that they have no monopoly on ancient and infallible wisdom. Mahatir is a chauvinist from way back.

Hence my closing line on "all of us". Without that, my whole point is also subject to very weakness that the author is warning against. The US is a notable example of this hubris, but is merely the most visible at present, since it is the largest country falling into this pattern of behaviour.

I merely found that in a few sentences, this author has made some very powerful and eloquent points.

I am glad, however, that you have identified the major points being made.

1) Hubris.
2) Collective pride.
3) Nationalist conceit.
4) Chauvinism.

[geni]

Originally posted by a_unique_person



The US is a notable example of this hubris, but is merely the most visible at present, since it is the largest country falling into this pattern of behaviour.



Surely the largest would be China (if you go by pop size) or Russia

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by geni


Surely the largest would be China (if you go by pop size) or Russia

When was the last time Russia or China invaded another country on the other side of the world under false pretences?

[geni]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


When was the last time Russia or China invaded another country on the other side of the world under false pretences?

Why is the other side of the world so important? China still ocupies Tibet and Russia is fighting in chechneia and ingushetia (yes I know those are spelt wrong).

[ssibal]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


When was the last time Russia or China invaded another country on the other side of the world under false pretences?

So, what were the true pretenses for the last U.S. invasion?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by geni


Why is the other side of the world so important? China still ocupies Tibet and Russia is fighting in chechneia and ingushetia (yes I know those are spelt wrong).

Russia and China have at least some claims to be legitimately involved in these conflicts, as they are regional wars, as is the conflict in Yugslavia, etc, even if I don't support them. That is, they are saying this is their traditional land, even if I don't support them. The legitimacy of all US claims for Iraq is fraudulent. Ditto Australia and Britain riding along.

[ssibal]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
The legitimacy of all US claims for Iraq is fraudulent. Ditto Australia and Britain riding along.

So, Iraq's non-compliance with UN resolutions (including the terms of their cease-fire with the U.S.) was a fraud? Iraq's human rights abuses were a fraud? Saddam's tyrannical rule was a fraud?

[ImpyTimpy]

You mean Saddam did have WMD's? Last time I checked that was the reason given for the invasion.

Originally posted by ssibal


So, Iraq's non-compliance with UN resolutions (including the terms of their cease-fire with the U.S.) was a fraud? Iraq's human rights abuses were a fraud? Saddam's tyrannical rule was a fraud?

[BTox]

Yes, there is no legitimacy to liberating a country from a tryrannical, murderous dictator. :rolleyes:

[ssibal]

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
You mean Saddam did have WMD's? Last time I checked that was the reason given for the invasion.



Last time I checked, there was no ONE reason given. WMD may have been the main reason but it was not the only one.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by BTox
Yes, there is no legitimacy to liberating a country from a tryrannical, murderous dictator. :rolleyes:

1) Hubris.
2) Collective pride.
3) Nationalist conceit.
4) Chauvinism.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by ssibal


Last time I checked, there was no ONE reason given. WMD may have been the main reason but it was not the only one.
You are correct. Every time one reason is proven false, there's another one to back it up.
Do you understand that many supported the action, but don't appreciate being lied to?

[Mike B.]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


They all sound like good candidates. If I was to say, as you want me to, that the US should consider these words, then I think it should. However, the Australian Prime Minister is no less guilty of the weaknesses mentioned, and a documentary on the delights of living under the Taliban showed pretty clearly that they have no monopoly on ancient and infallible wisdom. Mahatir is a chauvinist from way back.

Hence my closing line on "all of us". Without that, my whole point is also subject to very weakness that the author is warning against. The US is a notable example of this hubris, but is merely the most visible at present, since it is the largest country falling into this pattern of behaviour.

I merely found that in a few sentences, this author has made some very powerful and eloquent points.

I am glad, however, that you have identified the major points being made.

1) Hubris.
2) Collective pride.
3) Nationalist conceit.
4) Chauvinism.

Typical to form...

Despite being given many examples of the above...AUP is only concerned about the AMERICAN's having these traits.

Never mind the half a million killed in Rwanda for instance for being in the wrong tribe. It is more important to worry about American hubris.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Mike B.


Typical to form...

Despite being given many examples of the above...AUP is only concerned about the AMERICAN's having these traits.

Never mind the half a million killed in Rwanda for instance for being in the wrong tribe. It is more important to worry about American hubris.

At least they're only killing people in their own country.

[Giz]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


At least they're only killing people in their own country.

Does that matter? Isn't the more enlightened attitude to say/think "we're all human" rather than "Well you guys are Rwandan while I'm British so it's no concern of mine, you just go ahead..."

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Giz


Does that matter? Isn't the more enlightened attitude to say/think "we're all human" rather than "Well you guys are Rwandan while I'm British so it's no concern of mine, you just go ahead..."

Note the use of the phrase 'at least'. It is hardly an ideal situation, but unlike Americans, Rwandans aren't killing people in other countries to forward their political agenda. Something should be done about Rwanda, I'm explaining why America gets more attention that Rwanda.

[Martin]

Originally posted by Mike B.
Despite being given many examples of the above...AUP is only concerned about the AMERICAN's having these traitsWow. You should apply for Randi's million. Being able to tell when someone means the exact opposite of what they actually say, and all.

[Malachi151]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
From the book "A Mind in Prison", by Bruno Manz, comes some timely advice.

"My father was a German chauvinist, who soon fell into Hitler's wide open arms. His nationalistic conceit is perhaps exemplified by his favourite saying, 'The German character one day will cure the world'. He spoke of Germany as the nation of poets and philosophers, and implied, as did the Nazis, that Germany was the cradle of culture (the word 'Civilisation', interestingly, was out of favour). I wholeheartedly embraced this hubris because it presented itself so clevely as age-old wisdom in poetic form. Little did I know that collective pride is a narcotic for the mentally homeless".

Hmmmm, I think there's something in that for all of us.

Well... in truth Germany was the pinnacle of human culture, unfortunately the Nazis ruined that, but the Germans really and truely did have a lot to be proud of, and "German character" will probably some day "cure the world", just not the German culture of the Nazis. German is a tragedy, they really were one of the greatest civilizations in the history of man. A true Icarus though.

[Skeptic]

Does that matter?

Well, to communist suympathizers like "Mr. Manifesto", it does. After all, killing their own citizens is what communist countries do best; if THAT is suddenly a crime, what countries will he have on the "good" side against the "evil" USA?

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
From the book "A Mind in Prison", by Bruno Manz, comes some timely advice.

"My father was a German chauvinist, who soon fell into Hitler's wide open arms. His nationalistic conceit is perhaps exemplified by his favourite saying, 'The German character one day will cure the world'. He spoke of Germany as the nation of poets and philosophers, and implied, as did the Nazis, that Germany was the cradle of culture (the word 'Civilisation', interestingly, was out of favour). I wholeheartedly embraced this hubris because it presented itself so clevely as age-old wisdom in poetic form. Little did I know that collective pride is a narcotic for the mentally homeless".

Hmmmm, I think there's something in that for all of us.


I deliberately avoided to read the rest of the discussion. I stop to the thread title and your opening post.

You were the first to point out in this forum that my English is not so good, of course you are right but I happen to chase precision in expression and semantics ( and thread titles) matter a great deal to me.

So,I have a question. What makes those words wise? The fact that have been spoken by a Nazi or the fact that they are wise words anyway?

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
1) Hubris.

I think America is the greatest nation in the history of Mankind, and I'm proud of it.

2) Collective pride.

It's too bad we don't have more pride. We are lucky if half the people turn out to vote.

3) Nationalist conceit.

I think America is the greatest nation in the history of Mankind, and I'm proud of it.

4) Chauvinism.

I think America is the greatest nation in the history of Mankind, and I'm proud of it.

Geez! I'm slacking off. I forgot to build some gas ovens to fry some folks in. And I forgot to wear my flashy armband this morning.

I sure hope we occupy Iraq FOREVER! I think we should make it the 51st state.

I won't be satisfied until every human on earth has eaten a McFlurry and knows the lyrics to Rock Around the Clock by heart.

But I have to take a nap first.

[CFLarsen]

Luke,

Not to piss on your parade, but... :)

Originally posted by Luke T.
I think America is the greatest nation in the history of Mankind, and I'm proud of it.

There are many nations in the history of Mankind that could easily be described as "greater" than the US. The Roman empire comes to mind.

No, the Romans did not have nuclear ballistic missiles, but then, you are comparing spears to missiles. Not fair at all. You have to look at what a nation did with what they had.

Originally posted by Luke T.
It's too bad we don't have more pride. We are lucky if half the people turn out to vote.

Actually, you guys have plenty of pride. What you need is to realize you need to establish a political system where the voters don't mistrust everything that comes from the "gubmint".

Get a real democracy, guys. The last presidential (s)election was a very good example of a system that doesn't work.

Originally posted by Luke T.
Geez! I'm slacking off. I forgot to build some gas ovens to fry some folks in. And I forgot to wear my flashy armband this morning.

Yeah, you are slacking off. I take it you are referring to the Holocaust? People were gassed in big chambers, and later burnt in ovens and mass pits.

Originally posted by Luke T.
I sure hope we occupy Iraq FOREVER! I think we should make it the 51st state.

Well, it does have a lot more oil than Alaska.... :)

Originally posted by Luke T.
I won't be satisfied until every human on earth has eaten a McFlurry and knows the lyrics to Rock Around the Clock by heart.

I can sympathize with the latter, but WTF is a McFlurry?

Originally posted by Luke T.
But I have to take a nap first.

Better, hiber"nation". Ha! I kill me! :)

[subgenius]

Re: "The Greatest Nation...." concept.
While I agree, I'm amused that people don't get the concept that you can be the best, and yet have a lot of improving to do.
The phrase is usually used to excuse any faults.

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by subgenius
Re: "The Greatest Nation...." concept.
While I agree, I'm amused that people don't get the concept that you can be the best, and yet have a lot of improving to do.
The phrase is usually used to excuse any faults.

I am amused that people don't get the concept that you can be proud of your country and NOT a Nazi at the same time!

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Luke,

Not to piss on your parade, but... :)



There are many nations in the history of Mankind that could easily be described as "greater" than the US. The Roman empire comes to mind.

No, the Romans did not have nuclear ballistic missiles, but then, you are comparing spears to missiles. Not fair at all. You have to look at what a nation did with what they had.

Did they have the ability to detect tongues in cheek, though?

Actually, you guys have plenty of pride. What you need is to realize you need to establish a political system where the voters don't mistrust everything that comes from the "gubmint".

A system where the voters don't mistrust everything that comes from the government....a system where the voters don't mistrust everything that comes from the government.....

Which is it? Are we overzealous about our country, or too lacking in trust in it? You guys are confusing me.

Get a real democracy, guys. The last presidential (s)election was a very good example of a system that doesn't work.

Everything went right down the line according to our Constitution. A lot of countries would have broken out into civil war. We just print a lot of nasty opinions in our newspapers. This is your idea of a system that doesn't work?

Yeah, you are slacking off. I take it you are referring to the Holocaust? People were gassed in big chambers, and later burnt in ovens and mass pits.

I don't see that happening here in America. Kids today! They just can't live up to the Nazi standard and do things right.

Well, it does have a lot more oil than Alaska.... :)
And warmer, too. We should make Cleopatra head of the Tourism Department of Iraq.

I can sympathize with the latter, but WTF is a McFlurry?
A sugary concoction that I think is supposed to be like a frozen ice drink at McDonald's. I've never had one.

Better, hiber"nation". Ha! I kill me! :)

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...... :)

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Luke T.
Did they have the ability to detect tongues in cheek, though?

Partially: They ate them. Lark's tongues! Wren's livers! Chaffinch's brains! Jaguar's earlobes! Wolve's nibble chips! Dromedary pretzel! Tuscany fried bats! Otter's noses! Ozelot spleens!

Originally posted by Luke T.
Which is it? Are we overzealous about our country, or too lacking in trust in it? You guys are confusing me.

I'm sure we are. You see, you can be proud of your country and still have a political system that sucks.

Originally posted by Luke T.
Everything went right down the line according to our Constitution.

Really? Then are you satisfied with the way the election was done?

Originally posted by Luke T.
A lot of countries would have broken out into civil war.

(cough) The Civil War, Luke.

Originally posted by Luke T.
We just print a lot of nasty opinions in our newspapers. This is your idea of a system that doesn't work?

Yes. :)

Originally posted by Luke T.
I don't see that happening here in America. Kids today! They just can't live up to the Nazi standard and do things right.

They never have. A good thing, too.

Originally posted by Luke T.
And warmer, too. We should make Cleopatra head of the Tourism Department of Iraq.

Nah, she should handle the sex industry. I've heard that porn videos are all the craze in Iraq these days... :)

Originally posted by Luke T.
A sugary concoction that I think is supposed to be like a frozen ice drink at McDonald's. I've never had one.

Which means you can't even live up to your own demands that everyone should have one? Whatta hypocrite! ;)

Originally posted by Luke T.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...... :)

Yeah, yeah...I know. Good humor is wasted on Americans. All they can understand is "Roseanne" and "C-SPAN"! :D

[Cleopatra]

Although I am waiting for Unique to clarify why he invited us to read what a Nazi said, I have a comment.

Claus

America is a greater nation than the Roman Empire( although you can't really compare I suspect you compare the impact and the size) because USA is a Democratic state.Also, from what I know USA is the Unique example in History of a Democratic Federation that actually works on the benefit of its citizen.

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by CFLarsen


Partially: They ate them. Lark's tongues! Wren's livers! Chaffinch's brains! Jaguar's earlobes! Wolve's nibble chips! Dromedary pretzel! Tuscany fried bats! Otter's noses! Ozelot spleens!

Maybe those Romans weren't so bad after all. They did invade France (Gaul)...


I'm sure we are. You see, you can be proud of your country and still have a political system that sucks.

Well, I have a perfect form of government that looks great on paper. It just starts to get all fouled up when you add human beings to it.

Really? Then are you satisfied with the way the election was done?

Yes. Gore was a sore loser. It only got messy because of him.

(cough) The Civil War, Luke.

At least our Civil War was over something worthy. And it had a lot to do with why our country is so great today.

Nah, she should handle the sex industry. I've heard that porn videos are all the craze in Iraq these days... :)

I always like the dance of the seven veils myself.

Which means you can't even live up to your own demands that everyone should have one? Whatta hypocrite! ;)

That's what makes me so.....American.

Yeah, yeah...I know. Good humor is wasted on Americans. All they can understand is "Roseanne" and "C-SPAN"! :D

That's because all of our writers and half the viewership are on coke.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Luke T.


I am amused that people don't get the concept that you can be proud of your country and NOT a Nazi at the same time!

Very true. I have noticed that people tend to think patriotism can only be of the "My country can do no wrong type" and they tend to ignore that you can acknowledge that your country has faults and want to work on them precisely because you are patriotic.

I do not think it is wise to do what many of my countrymen would have me do and blindly refuse to acknowledge that my country has faults, nor to do what the Mr. Manifestos of the world seem to want and throw myself off a bridge because I had the misfortune to be born an American. There is a middle ground and as with most things that middle ground seems the way to go.

[CFLarsen]

Cleopatra

You are right, I am comparing impact and size. We could also compare the ability to produce good entertainment, by which the Roman Empire most certainly would also take the cake. Or what about fashion? Romans win, hands down.

I am not certain I agree with you about the democratic federation. How many do we have to compare with? I do question the part about working for the benefit of its citizens. Had you qualified it with "some of its citizens", I would have agreed.

Carry on. :)

Originally posted by Luke T.
Maybe those Romans weren't so bad after all. They did invade France (Gaul)...

(cough) Patton, Luke.

Originally posted by Luke T.
Well, I have a perfect form of government that looks great on paper. It just starts to get all fouled up when you add human beings to it.

No, that's not what you (and every other American). What you mean is: "Government would work, if everyone thought like I do!" :)

Originally posted by Luke T.
Yes. Gore was a sore loser. It only got messy because of him.

No, he lost because of the voting system. It got "messy" because of the voting system.

Originally posted by Luke T.
At least our Civil War was over something worthy. And it had a lot to do with why our country is so great today.

Hey, every civil war is over something that the participants consider "worthy". Ever thought why you never hear this exchange?

A: "Hey, let's have a civil war!"
B: "Yeah!....over what??"
A: "Doesn't matter! Let's just fight!"
B: (thinks)...."OK, I can live with th...(gets shot by A)

Originally posted by Luke T.
I always like the dance of the seven veils myself.

I didn't know you could dance. Are you giving a performance at TAM2? :)

Originally posted by Luke T.
That's what makes me so.....American.

Yes, I know...now that you mention it. :)

Originally posted by Luke T.
That's because all of our writers and half the viewership are on coke.

And the other half is on Pepsi.

SEE?!?!? I knew you wouldn't like it! :D

[Cleopatra]

Claus

I wish to have this discussion more than you can imagine but I deny to make comments about a free country under this thread title ,at least not until I get some explanations.

I want to know why we use a "Nazi's wisdom" when we have thousands of similar quotes that say exactly the same thing.

History has many examples to provide for what Unique wants to say I want to know why he chose a Nazi as an example.

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
Although I am waiting for Unique to clarify why he invited us to read what a Nazi said, I have a comment.


I think he wants to show us that too much patriotism, paired off with too little critical thinking, can lead people to swallow the Nazi party´s BS hook, line and sinker. Or any other nationalists´ party, for that matter.

I suppose he wants to imply a similarity between Germany before Hitler and the USA right now.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
Claus

I wish to have this discussion more than you can imagine but I deny to make comments about a free country under this thread title ,at least not until I get some explanations.

I want to know why we use a "Nazi's wisdom" when we have thousands of similar quotes that say exactly the same thing.

History has many examples to provide for what Unique wants to say I want to know why he chose a Nazi as an example.

Sure, no worries.

[c0rbin]

Don't fold, LukeT. I think the Nazis cycled their way into Denmark at the invite of the Danish king of the time.

So much for pride.

And comparing the US to Rome is mighty wide of you Claus.

One gives the world highways, the other gives the world superhighways.

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by c0rbin
Don't fold, LukeT. I think the Nazis cycled their way into Denmark at the invite of the Danish king of the time.

So much for pride.

And comparing the US to Rome is mighty wide of you Clause.

One gives the world highways, the other gives the world superhighways.

Is this an oblique way of refering to the SS Standarte Norland? What stands out so far from what I've read is hubris, Nazi's, character and Denmark. What next - Victor Borge?
Rome gave us Pizza and we gave McFlurry?
And Ex-Nazi? Isn't that like an Ex-virgin? No wonder Cleo is demanding clarification. ESLs are easy to confuse - especially Australians.
Please try to stay on topic.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Chaos


I suppose he wants to imply a similarity between Germany before Hitler and the USA right now.


This is exactly what I am afraid that Unique is doing but since we have said that it's better to ask for a clarification instead of jumping into a conclusion I thought to ask him to clarify this.

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by CFLarsen

(cough) Patton, Luke.

Should have let him keep on going to Moscow. Edited to add: But I do admit, it was pretty imperialistic of us to allow Patton to invade France. I hope we will one day be forgiven. But it is all part of the plan, see. You buy our McFlurries so we can afford to drink French champagne.


No, that's not what you (and every other American). What you mean is: "Government would work, if everyone thought like I do!" :)

"So would this forum." :D

No, he lost because of the voting system. It got "messy" because of the voting system.

Yes. Bush for Dictator! No more voting! Disband the Supreme Court! Buy more nukalur stuff.

Hey, every civil war is over something that the participants consider "worthy". Ever thought why you never hear this exchange?

A: "Hey, let's have a civil war!"
B: "Yeah!....over what??"
A: "Doesn't matter! Let's just fight!"
B: (thinks)...."OK, I can live with th...(gets shot by A)

We almost had a civil war over a blowjob.

I didn't know you could dance. Are you giving a performance at TAM2? :)

I'm afraid I'm already booked to be performing piggy back rides for my 3 kids, in the living room, all that week.

And the other half is on Pepsi.

All those bubbles induce fuzzy logic.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by c0rbin
Don't fold, LukeT. I think the Nazis cycled their way into Denmark at the invite of the Danish king of the time.

Surely you jest. They came on planes, and in tanks.

Originally posted by c0rbin
So much for pride.

Well, call it "a sense of reality". We couldn't do much anyway.

Originally posted by c0rbin
And comparing the US to Rome is mighty wide of you Claus.

That comes from reading history. You should try it. :)

Originally posted by c0rbin
One gives the world highways, the other gives the world superhighways.

Originally posted by Luke T.
Should have let him keep on going to Moscow.

Why not Tokyo?? Would have made the movie somewhat longer though....

Originally posted by Luke T.
"So would this forum." :D

Yes, yes, be a woowoo and avoid the issue! :)

Originally posted by Luke T.
Yes. Bush for Dictator! No more voting! Disband the Supreme Court! Buy more nukalur stuff.

Hey, you are well on your way....

Originally posted by Luke T.
We almost had a civil war over a blowjob.

Sorry, we need video tapes of that, before we can pass judgment!

Originally posted by Luke T.
I'm afraid I'm already booked to be performing piggy back rides for my 3 kids, in the living room, all that week.

Leave your fantasies outside this forum, you perv! Steve Grenard can use that for his prudish crusades!!

Originally posted by Luke T.
All those bubbles induce fuzzy logic.

Ah, ha, ha....ha. Not funny.

[c0rbin]

The Danes aren't so bad... (http://www.peachtree-online.com/Yellow_Star_no_art/Kids/resistance.htm)

[reprise]

I think, AUP, that domestic criticism of US actions is not necessarily visible to the rest of the world and that we are often left with a distorted picture of of how Americans really feel about their nation and their government. We also have a tendency to forget that the average person in the US is affected largely by the actions of their state government and that there's a huge variation in the political agendas of the 50 states. It's hardly surprising that Americans regard the US as "the best damned country on earth" when they have 50 different political climates to choose from and can - to a large extent - shop around for the state which offers them the best opportunities for fulfilling their personal ambitions.

I - personally - would not like to live in the US. That doesn't mean that it isn't the best place in the world for those who do want to live under that particular political system. Where I come into conflict with Americans is when they express their believe that their system of government is the best for everyone or that other nations should support the US system of government at the expense of their own.

I suspect that the average American just wants to be able to buy a house, put food on the table, have a few luxuries, be able to go to the doctor when they need to, educate their children, and enjoy life. While I have no doubt that the "greedy American" for whom acquiring more net worth their peers is their primary objective in life does exist, I suspect that we have a very distorted perspective about how many Americans fit that stereotype. And that isn't surprising. Almost every American TV show or movie we see perpetuates that "greed is good, me first, might is right" perception we have of Americans.

Our perception is that America is the land of liberty, equality, and fraternity only for the rich and that the middle class and the poor are in a constant battle to either obtain those rights or having obtained them to maintain them. We perceive an irreconcilable conflict between the rhetoric and the reality, one which is magnified many times over because we see so much of American culture as it is presented in the media. We see more of "the American way" of life depicted on our TV screens, movies, and literature than we do of any other nation on earth - including our own. We are often shocked when we encounter online people who do not fit the stereotype of "what we believe about America and Americans", and yet we dismiss those individuals as "the exception" while maintaining our belief in the stereotype.

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Why not Tokyo?? Would have made the movie somewhat longer though....

And give up the chance to nuke the Japs? No way!

Yes, yes, be a woowoo and avoid the issue! :)

What issue? *bats eyelashes*

Hey, you are well on your way....

They said the same thing about Lincoln.

Sorry, we need video tapes of that, before we can pass judgment!

Nixon taped himself. Let's hope Bill Clinton did too....

Leave your fantasies outside this forum, you perv! Steve Grenard can use that for his prudish crusades!!

I missed the reference. Not up on my sgrenard subscription.

Ah, ha, ha....ha. Not funny.

Too much co-, er, Pepsi.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Luke T.
And give up the chance to nuke the Japs? No way!

I didn't know you needed a reason!

Originally posted by Luke T.
What issue? *bats eyelashes*

Pull that trick with the boys in the shower, army-boy.

Originally posted by Luke T.
They said the same thing about Lincoln.

The car???

Originally posted by Luke T.
Nixon taped himself. Let's hope Bill Clinton did too....

That's true! Just another example of how stupid American presidents are...

Originally posted by Luke T.
I missed the reference. Not up on my sgrenard subscription.

Read the upcoming book.

Originally posted by Luke T.
Too much co-, er, Pepsi.

You are dead meat, army-boy.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Mike B.


Typical to form...

Despite being given many examples of the above...AUP is only concerned about the AMERICAN's having these traits.

Never mind the half a million killed in Rwanda for instance for being in the wrong tribe. It is more important to worry about American hubris.

You haven't noted that I also included Britain and Australia on that list. Rwanda was a more mundane war, if still very horrific.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Luke T.


I am amused that people don't get the concept that you can be proud of your country and NOT a Nazi at the same time!

You are confusing the label with the process. He has listed what he believed were the basic faults of the Nazi thought process, not the Nazi ideology itself, or being "Nazi". You can have a different ideology to the Nazis, and still fall to the basic errors he lists.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Cleopatra



I deliberately avoided to read the rest of the discussion. I stop to the thread title and your opening post.

You were the first to point out in this forum that my English is not so good, of course you are right but I happen to chase precision in expression and semantics ( and thread titles) matter a great deal to me.

So,I have a question. What makes those words wise? The fact that have been spoken by a Nazi or the fact that they are wise words anyway?

The fact that they are wise anyway. That he was a Nazi was just how he discovered these ideas, when he realised why Nazism was doomed to failure.

PS, as I have pointed out, your Greek and Hebrew are infinitely better than my English.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
Claus

I wish to have this discussion more than you can imagine but I deny to make comments about a free country under this thread title ,at least not until I get some explanations.

I want to know why we use a "Nazi's wisdom" when we have thousands of similar quotes that say exactly the same thing.

History has many examples to provide for what Unique wants to say I want to know why he chose a Nazi as an example.

Because I happen to be reading the book at this point in time, and I thought he put in one paragraph a good summary of how Germany fell under the spell of Nazism.