Shouldn´t cryptozoologists be supposed to know at least a bit about zoology?

[Correa Neto]

Check
http://www.bahnhof.se/%7ewizard/GUSTeng03/artiklar_marmarasjon_2.html

Haven´t this guy noticed the radial fins or the scales in his "shark"? Guill count- shark on the pic 6 , the alleged shark pic- 1 (on each side, of course). Wasn´t he supposed to know the differences between bony and cartilagenous fishes?:teacher:

With such basic errors, how can someone complain about "not being heard by scientific community"?

BTW, IMHO its a puffer, not a shark!!!!

[Hand Bent Spoon]

Yes, one would hope that they would start out with strong training in zoology, and layer in the crypto stuff from there, but that makes too much sense.

These people are studying mythology, but calling it a science.

[mummymonkey]

Boxfish (http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fishfacts/fish/rrhinor.htm)

[scribble]

Originally posted by mummymonkey
Boxfish (http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fishfacts/fish/rrhinor.htm)

Oh, that's what they WANT you to believe... these are the exact same pisctures, proving that the Establishment stole the photos from the other website to try to explain something they don't want us to know about. This thing is a real shark!! Don't be fooled by stories of "box fish" (yeah, right!)

[mummymonkey]

Originally posted by scribble
... pisctures ... Pictures of a fish?

[CFLarsen]

I wrote the guy an email about it. Let's see what happens. :)

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by scribble
these are the exact same pisctures, (sic) ....They are, too! That's hysterically funny!

Rolfe.

[Grommitt]

Same picture
Different websites
Different copywrite name
Different copywrite dates
Different locations

It looks as though the exact same fish was caught off Malaysia and then was caught off the Turkish coast. That fish sure gets around!

Someone has a credibility problem here and it ain't the fish.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Grommitt
Someone has a credibility problem here and it ain't the fish.

I dunno, man...did you see the fish?? :)

[Nyarlathotep]

This quote caught my eye....The "Monster" from the Marmara Sea and the Bigeye Tagged-Tooth Shark are similar, I think we agree about this, but why are the likeness not 100% if this rare shark really is the species in Turkey?

The quote is accompanied by photos of the fish in question and a shark. The thing that made it so interesting is that, though maybe it's just me, I see almost NO similarities between the "monster" and the shark, yet the author of the article claims that he thinks we can all agree that they are similar. Further I am no biologist and I know squat about Allometry, but I do know that if the concept is used the way the author of the article uses it, one could prove that almost any animal is actually an example of some other species, i.e. If I had the corpse of a small bear and wanted to "prove" it was actually the corpse of a very large dog, by his logic I could just claim it was allometry that made the large dog look like a small bear. This is clearly illogical.

But then again expecting logic from these people might be expecting too much.

[Psi Baba]

This guys sees no similarity between the Zuiyo Maru carcass and a basking shark skeleton, yet he thinks this boxfish and a shark are nearly the same thing. :rolleyes: Something is definitely rotten in Denmark, and it ain't the fish. (Sorry, Claus. It's not you either :D ).

[SteveGrenard]

This is definitely a boxfish, a member of the tetraodontiforme family of fishes. There are a few similarities between them and sharks but this identification is clearly way off the mark. The only similarities are that the boxfish has a gill slit and no gill covers just like sharks and they have fused scales as well. The swell shark also puffs up. There is also a member of this family, the Oceanic Sun Fish, which looks like some beheaded monster, that reaches an enormous size and weight (up to 4000 pounds).

The boxfish and other members of the group are highly toxic, producing either through algae in its diet or intrinsically (its being debated) one of the most powerful nerve toxins known in nature:
tetrodotoxin which is found in its internal organs (e.g. liver, ovaries) and a dangerous skin toxin as well. Its a good thing this guy stole the picture. If he had the real fish and thought it was a shark he may've killed himself.

[Yahweh]

Shouldn´t cryptozoologists be supposed to know at least a bit about zoology?

Guide to living in this dreadful world Lesson #23:

Dont expect too much out of people, you'll get burned in the end.


Guide to living in this dreadful world Lesson #590:

When seeking to learn new things, dont expect people to give you anything in a way of "satisfactory competence" at all.


Guide to living in this dreadful world Lesson #95:

"Some people dance to the beat of a different drum" is a nice way of saying "I think you're ideas are stupid".

[Chad Noles]

From Death in a Pretty Package: The Blue-Ringed Octopuses

By Dr. Roy Caldwell
University of California at Berkeley

TTX is found not only in blue-rings and many fishes in the family Tetraodontidae (hence the name tetrodotoxin), but also in several other groups of animals including California newts (genus Taricha), central American harlequin frogs (genus Atelopus), as well as a scattering of invertebrates including a South American tunicate (sea squirt), a sea star, several snails, some xanthid crabs, a horseshoe crab, two ribbon worms, some arrow worms, and a flatworm. It was a mystery why such a diversity of unrelated organisms would all evolve the same toxin, until it was recently discovered that bacteria associated with many of these animals actually produce TTX.

and

As an aside, TTX plays interesting roles in various human rituals. Fugu, the Japanese delicacy, is prepared from pufferfish that contain lethal doses of TTX. It is estimated that each year close to a hundred people die from eating fugu that has not been properly prepared. TTX is also claimed to be an active ingredient used by some Haitian voodoo sorcerers to create "zombies". It is known that the toxic powder used is often prepared from, among other things, porcupine and pufferfishes that contain TTX.

instant zombies:just add TTX

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Psi Baba
This guys sees no similarity between the Zuiyo Maru carcass and a basking shark skeleton, yet he thinks this boxfish and a shark are nearly the same thing. :rolleyes: Something is definitely rotten in Denmark, and it ain't the fish. (Sorry, Claus. It's not you either :D ).

He's Swedish.... ;)

[Correa Neto]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
I wrote the guy an email about it. Let's see what happens. :)

Good idea, but I think you will be deemed as just another unbeliver...

I got really mad after seeing the link to the boxfish... The guy is either a naive dellusionary or has bad intentions.

I would like to see his sources, such as from where he took Thor Heierdhal´s (sp?) report of an encounter with a group of "luminescent sea monsters".

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Correa Neto
Good idea, but I think you will be deemed as just another unbeliver...

I got really mad after seeing the link to the boxfish... The guy is either a naive dellusionary or has bad intentions.

The guy replied: "The picture was wrong".

The picture is now changed.

Hmmmm......... :)

Originally posted by Correa Neto
I would like to see his sources, such as from where he took Thor Heierdhal´s (sp?) report of an encounter with a group of "luminescent sea monsters".

Ask him. :)

[mummymonkey]

Sunfish (http://www.geocities.com/sufsak/oceansunfishpic.html)

[Correa Neto]

Originally posted by CFLarsen


The guy replied: "The picture was wrong".

The picture is now changed.

Hmmmm......... :)



Ask him. :)
Roger!;)

Sunfishes are still pretty different from sharks...

[Ed]

In spite of the sloppiness, this guy seems to be rational and not jump on woo-woo theories.

"There is a certain likeness between the Bigeye Ragged-Tooth Shark (to the left) and the "monster" from the Marmara Sea (to the right) and according to science the biological phenomenon of allometry can explain the rest."

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Correa Neto

Roger!;)

Don't call me Roger, Shirley. Victor, Oveur. Do we have clearance, Clarence?

[Martin]

Originally posted by mummymonkey
Boxfish (http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fishfacts/fish/rrhinor.htm) http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fishfacts/images/rrhinora.jpg

Cool. G'Kar fish.

[Darat]

Originally posted by Martin
http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fishfacts/images/rrhinora.jpg

Cool. G'Kar fish.

Nah - one eye should be blue ;)

[SquishyDave]

I found the original picture of the new "shark", but can't translate the text, does anyone know turkish? Is it even Turkish?

http://www.websoldier.net/index.php?id=2&kon=1

I am posting this in Community, to see if anyone can translate it, once I know what it says, I will send an email to our friendly cyrptozooy guy.

[SteveGrenard]

It is Turkish .... here is the same shark with an English page description:
www.bahnhof.se/~wizard/GUSTeng03/artiklar_marmarasjon_2.html

It appears to be a corrected version of the page (posted first above) with the misidentified shark (which is really a boxfish). There are also plenty of entries on this species but all are in Turkish.

edited to add: the similarities between this fish and a shark is the dorsal fin (see sunfish picture link above) as well as the aforementioned (single) gill slit without an opeculum or gill cover and the scaleless skin due to fusion of scales to form an elastic skin. Also may confuse the ocean sun fish with elasmobranchs (sharks) of the ray family due to similarity of behaviors.
Rays are cartilaginous fishes having horizontally flattened bodies and enlarged winglike pectoral fins with gills on the underside; most swim by moving the pectoral fins which is very similar to sunfish behavior.

[WildCat]

The new pic is definitely a mola, or ocean sunfish. Guess he'll have to find another pic.

[SteveGrenard]

yup. The giant ocean sunfish, a type of boxfish. Maybe Claus can write him again in Swedish and point this out to him.

here are some pictures:

http://www.earthwindow.com/mola.html

http://www.oceanlight.com/html/mola_mola.html

http://www.oceansunfish.org/

If he still thinks this is a shark and that the giant ocean sunfish isn't found in Turkish waters, show him the following. If this species is found in the Mediterranean then it can be found in the Aegean and if its can be found in the Aegean, it can find its way past Galliipoli into the Sea of Marmara. Since it is extremely fecund, laying millions of eggs(2.5 to 5 million), even a small% of these that survive to adulthood could serve to establish this species where it may not have been found before.


excerpted from from: Check-list of Marine Fishes of Turkey - Part II (Classis Osteichthyes)

by S. Mater, M.Kaya & M.Bilecenoglu

Ege University, Faculty of Fisheries, Department of Hydrobiology, 35100 Izmir/Turkey



http://bornova.ege.edu.tr/~mbilecen/bony_list.html

ORDER : PLECTOGNATHI

(TETRAODONTIFORMES)

116. Family : BALISTIDAE
116.1. Balistes carolinensis Gmelin, 1789

117. Family : MONACANTHIDAE
117.1. Stephanolepis diaspros Fraser & Brunner, 1940

118. Family : TETRAODONTIDAE
118.1. Lagocephalus lagocephalus (Linnaeus, 1758)
118.2. Lagocephalus spadiceus (Richardson, 1844)
118.3. Sphoeroides pachygaster (Muller & Troschel, 1848)

119. Family : MOLIDAE
119.1. Mola mola (Linnaeus, 1758)
119.2. Ranzania laevis (Pennant, 1776)

------------------------------------------------

Map Order: Tetraodontiformes (puffers and filefishes) Class: Actinopterygii (ray-finned fishes) FishBase name: Ocean sunfish Max. size: 333 cm TL (male/unsexed; Ref. 26340); max. published weight: 2,300.0 kg (Ref. 43760) Environment: pelagic; oceanodromous; marine ; depth range 0 - 300 m Climate: subtropical; 12; 65°N - 43°S Importance: fisheries: minor commercial Resilience: Distribution:
Gazetteer Warm and temperate zones of all oceans. Eastern Pacific: British Columbia, Canada (Ref. 2850) to Peru and Chile (Ref. 5530). Eastern Atlantic: Scandinavia to South Africa (occasionally western Baltic, Mediterranean). Western Atlantic: Newfoundland, Canada (Ref. 7251) to Argentina (Ref. 36453). Diagnosis: Dorsal spines (total): 0-0; Dorsal soft rays (total): 15-18; Anal spines: 0-0; Anal soft rays: 14-17. The scaleless body is covered with extremely thick, elastic skin. The caudal fin is replaced by a rudder-like structure called 'clavus'. Dorsal and anal fins very high with short base; in swimming, these fins are flapped synchronously from side to side and can propel the fish at surprisingly good speed. Pectorals small and rounded, directed upward (Ref. 6885). Mouth very small; teeth fused to form a parrot-like beak. Gills 4, a slit behind the last; gill openings reduced to a small hole at the base of the pectoral fins. Gas bladder absent in adults. Biology: Often drifts at the surface while lying on its side, or swims upright and close to the surface that its dorsal fin projects above the water. Feeds on fishes, mollusks, zooplankton, jellyfish, crustaceans, and brittle stars (Ref. 4925). Recorded as the heaviest bony fish and as the one with the most eggs in the Guinness Book of World Records (Ref. 6472). Generally not eaten, but considered by some as a delicacy (Ref. 30573). Utilized fresh and can be broiled (Ref. 9988). Used in Chinese medicine (Ref. 12166). Molas may contain the same toxin as puffers and porcupine fish (Ref. 13513). Does not adapt well in captivity (Ref. 12382, 37040). Juveniles are preyed upon by California sea lions in Monterey Bay (Ref. 37040) Red List Status: Not in IUCN Red List , (Ref. 36508) Dangerous: poisonous to eat , Parsons, C.. 1986 Coordinator: Main Ref: Tortonese, E.. 1990. (Ref. 6952)
http://www.fishbase.org/search.cfm


Cite FishBase itself as:

Froese, R. and D. Pauly. Editors.
2003.

FishBase.

World Wide Web electronic publication.

www.fishbase.org

version 19 November 2003

[Hand Bent Spoon]

Egads! That boxfish has LIPS!

What is this? Ugly Fish Week?;)