Sylvia Brown Breaks Parents' Hearts

[Brown]

The following story was aired last night on KMSP Fox 9 (http://www.kmsp.com/news/local/story.asp?content_id=1609808):A television psychic is saying what no one else has dared to: that a missing Chisolm girl was killed and buried in a shallow grave. But now the question is how much of her vision is TV theatrics, and how much is legitimate information?This is how the story began. And who is the "television psychic?" Well, the station misspells her name, but it is someone with whom we are familiar:Leanna's parents will appear on the Montel Williams show this Wednesday. It was taped back in October and originally they thought it would be a great way to publicize the case. But psychic Sylvia Brown made them regret their decision.

On-air psychic Sylvia Brown had a dreaded prediction. She says Leanna was killed by someone from the Chisolm area. The person is in his early 20's. Brown even claims she can hone in on certain letters of the name and numbers in the license plate.The news footage of the parents on the show (I have the news report recorded) shows them in serious distress as Sylvia gives them the "bad news." Although the web site doesn't say so, Sylvia identified the perpetrator's car as a "yellow Volkswagen" and opined that it shouldn't be too hard to find.The psychic's performance is likely just a television stunt, meant mostly for entertainment. But no one told the Warners and you can tell just by watching, their pain is real. To refer to this demonstration as "entertainment" is an affront to the modern sense of the word.

Carol Watson, of 'Missing Children Minnesota,' had this to say about Browne's business."In all my years, 20 years of dealing with this, I've had only one situation where a psychic actually came up with information that would actually find a child."Personally, I am astonished that Ms. Watson credited even one case to a psychic. At best, she could have said that there was one case in twenty years in which a psychic made a lucky guess.

Why do the parents regret seeking Browne's "help?"Not only do they have this devastating news given to them, but now people who saw the show are going to say 'what's the point?' she's dead. Why keep looking?'If I remember correctly, that last quote was from Ms. Watson, not from the parents. The parents still apparently hold out some hope that Browne actually might help, as the story concludes:The Warners said they hadn't shared Sylvia Brown's information with investigators yet. They want to wait for the episode to air first.Now for some personal comment: If this child is eventually found alive, then Browne and Montel Williams should NEVER hear the end of it. How dare they put these people through the wringer for ratings?
Edited to correct typo in the text. The "typo" in the title was intentional.

[pgwenthold]

What's going to happen to all those folks in Chisholm who drive yellow volkswagons?

I'm torn on this one. You could probably very easily go through all the possibilities )how many yellow VWs are there in Chisholm, anyway?), and trivially rule them out and show her to be wrong. OTOH, it would be a waste of time and no one should ever be considered a suspect because some moronic "psychic" fingers them.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Brown
Now for some personal comment: If this child is eventually found alive, then Browne and Montel Williams should NEVER hear the end of it. How dare they put these people through the wringer for ratings?

Not just that, but if she is found dead, and the details doesn't fit, we should also make it known.

Let's remember this one, shall we?

[KelvinG]

On-air psychic Sylvia Brown had a dreaded prediction. She says Leanna was killed by someone from the Chisolm area. The person is in his early 20's. Brown even claims she can hone in on certain letters of the name and numbers in the license plate.

OK, does this mean she "can" hone in on certain letters of the name and number in the license, or does it mean she actually did. I'm guessing when the cameras were turned off, Browne fled the studio and was never heard from again by these parents.
Perhaps she said she'd get back to them with some names and license numbers. Maybe the parents can start a Sylvia Browne clock of their own counting the number days since Browne promised to provide actual useful information in finding her daughter.

And gimmee a break, she predicts the girl will be found in a shallow grave. Oooh, way to go out on a limb Sylvia. Sadly, most missing children cases like these end up with the child being found dead (or never found) and most times the perpetrator tends to try and hide the body in a body of water or a grave. Sylvia is playing it safe. If the child is found in a shallow grave then she'll go on about how she was right, but if the child is found alive or the details of her death are significantly different from her prediction, then Browne will never comment on it again. And will that spineless loser Montel do a follow up show? Hah, not bloody likely.
But, it plays great on TV. The trailer park trash sitting in Montel's audience were surely blown away.

[Brown]

It doesn't say this on the web site, but Browne said that the shallow grave was in a wooded area.

This rules out shallow graves that might have been dug in crop fields that might be disturbed by plows, and it also rules out the possiblity of the shallow grave being dug the business district, a parking lot, a factory, a shopping mall, or a softball diamond.

[Marc]

Originally posted by CFLarsen


Not just that, but if she is found dead, and the details doesn't fit, we should also make it known.

Let's remember this one, shall we?
It would not matter much, she had already gotten the details wrong in another case. She predicted some old man's body would be found on a hill side and he wasn't near any or something like that. But Montell still goes on to say that Sylvia gets the location right.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Marc
It would not matter much, she had already gotten the details wrong in another case. She predicted some old man's body would be found on a hill side and he wasn't near any or something like that. But Montell still goes on to say that Sylvia gets the location right.

Yes, it matters, because these examples add up. The more we can refer to, the more ridiculous it becomes to defend her.

If the kid is found alive, then we have another reason to call in, when she's on LKL. :)

As a side note, when will we see the first lawsuit against a psychic because of emotional damage (or whatever the legal term is)?

These parents should certainly sue, if their kid is found alive.

[Thanz]

The Warners said they hadn't shared Sylvia Brown's information with investigators yet. They want to wait for the episode to air first.
Is anyone else deeply disturbed by this portion of the report? If they think that SB is real, why wait to share the information with the investigators? If my child wre missing I would want the investigators to have as much information as possible as soon as possible. I see no benefit to the parents in waiting until the episode airs to share the information with investigators. Are the parents being paid to keep it to themselves?

The other possibity, which is much more palatable, is that the parents know that SB is full of BS, and are not "sharing" the "information" with investigators so that they do not waste time on wild goose chases instead of real investigative work. I hope this is the case.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Thanz

Is anyone else deeply disturbed by this portion of the report? If they think that SB is real, why wait to share the information with the investigators? If my child wre missing I would want the investigators to have as much information as possible as soon as possible. I see no benefit to the parents in waiting until the episode airs to share the information with investigators. Are the parents being paid to keep it to themselves?

The other possibity, which is much more palatable, is that the parents know that SB is full of BS, and are not "sharing" the "information" with investigators so that they do not waste time on wild goose chases instead of real investigative work. I hope this is the case.

Yeah, I saw it too.

It made me think that the Warners are plants. What parents with a missing child would not want to do whatever it takes to find their child?

I don't think they believe SB is BS (now, there's an interesting constellation!). Why would they be on the show then? I

Are there any reports in the media about this missing kid?

[hgc]

Brown:

This rules out shallow graves that might have been dug in crop fields that might be disturbed by plows, and it also rules out the possiblity of the shallow grave being dug the business district, a parking lot, a factory, a shopping mall, or a softball diamond.If there's a tree in sight, then it's a wooded area. Hell, even a Ficus visible through an office window will do.Marc:

It would not matter much, she had already gotten the details wrong in another case. She predicted some old man's body would be found on a hill side and he wasn't near any or something like that. But Montell still goes on to say that Sylvia gets the location right.Define hillside. 1% grade will do in my book. Gee, practically the whole world is a hillside.

[boooeee]

Originally Posted by CFLarsen
Yeah, I saw it too.

It made me think that the Warners are plants. What parents with a missing child would not want to do whatever it takes to find their child?

I don't think they believe SB is BS (now, there's an interesting constellation!). Why would they be on the show then? I

Are there any reports in the media about this missing kid?
Here's some additional info on the missing child. The correct spelling of the town is "Chisholm".

Police Partially Drain Lake in Search (http://www.grandrapids-mn.com/placed/index.php?sect_rank=1&story_id=156347)

Girl's Mom Plead Guilty in Auto Attack on Husband (http://www.kstp.com/article/view/123914/)

I can't imagine the stress that these two parents are under (see the above link). It just furthers my disgust at people like Sylvia who use tragedies like this to further their own careers, book sales, etc.

[uneasy]

This is an unusual situation. Usually in cases like this, the psychic predicts something good, so saying you don't believe the psychic is almost like saying you want something bad to happen so they are proved wrong.

In this case, we can actually hope for a good thing and express the view that she's a fraud at the same time.

It seems like a blunder on Browne's part. I think she could predict only good things and believers would never question why everything she predicts is happy.

[hgc]

Originally posted by uneasy
This is an unusual situation. Usually in cases like this, the psychic predicts something good, so saying you don't believe the psychic is almost like saying you want something bad to happen so they are proved wrong.

In this case, we can actually hope for a good thing and express the view that she's a fraud at the same time.

It seems like a blunder on Browne's part. I think she could predict only good things and believers would never question why everything she predicts is happy. She's playing the odds, as it's more likely that the child is dead than alive, based on the statistics around cases like this.

But it probably is a blunder anyway. People who tune in for this stuff are clearly not too concerned about little things like evidence, proof, reality. They are very concerned about good vibrations (and such) and have an unexamined urge to hear good news.

[Thanz]

Originally posted by uneasy
This is an unusual situation. Usually in cases like this, the psychic predicts something good, so saying you don't believe the psychic is almost like saying you want something bad to happen so they are proved wrong.

In this case, we can actually hope for a good thing and express the view that she's a fraud at the same time.

It seems like a blunder on Browne's part. I think she could predict only good things and believers would never question why everything she predicts is happy.

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate but equally important groups. The police who investigate crime and the attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.....

Tonight, on an all-new Law & Order, a case ripped from the headlines. A couple, desperate to locate their their missing child, turn to a psychic for help.... but when the psychic says that there child is dead, they lose hope... but then, the child's body is found just as the psychic said it would.... detectives Briscoe and Green uncover startling evidence that suggests the aging psychic with waning popularity took matters into her own hands to boost her own prediction accuracy....

This story is fictional. Any resemblance to any actual people or events is strictly co-incidental.

[TruthSeeker]

I am very disturbed by Sylvia Browne right now.

She was in Toronto this weekend. We are currently in the middle of a missing child case ~ a lovely 9 year old girl who was abducted from her own bedroom. No clues, no leads, nothing.

Sylvia Browne announced that she knows where the girl is and will be telling the police. They showed the parents hearing this news. You could see the hope grow in their faces.

And yet, over 36 hours after this announcement...there are still no leads, no clues.

I am soooooooo angry at her for doing this to these parents.

[Clancie]

Posted by KelvinG

The trailer park trash sitting in Montel's audience were surely blown away.
KelvinG,

OT, but I just really hate to read someone stereotyping people as "trash" just because of where they can afford to live.

Frankly, I work with a few people whom you might -really- consider "trash"--and they live in million dollar homes inside gated communities....

[Clancie]

As for Sylvia....frankly, it sickens me to read about her, but I agree that she's harmful and should be stopped.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Clancie
As for Sylvia....frankly, it sickens me to read about her, but I agree that she's harmful and should be stopped.

Absolutely. Which makes it a very good question why John Edward chooses to appear with her in Hawaii. Can't he see through her? Would he appear with Ms. Cleo as well?

It could be interesting to know why you think Sylvia is a fake. She has atrocious manners, we can quickly agree on that, but being a boor does not a fake make.

(Edited to remove typo)

[KelvinG]

Originally posted by Clancie

KelvinG,

OT, but I just really hate to read someone stereotyping people as "trash" just because of where they can afford to live.

Frankly, I work with a few people whom you might -really- consider "trash"--and they live in million dollar homes inside gated communities....

I am guilty of stereotyping every now and then. I'm only human!
I retract the trailer park trash portion of my post. Members of this forum will please disregard my mention of this stereotype.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Brown
Although the web site doesn't say so, Sylvia identified the perpetrator's car as a "yellow Volkswagen" and opined that it shouldn't be too hard to find.

Wow, not only does Sylvia deliberately profit from the grief of these people, she opens the door of vigilantism without hardly a second thought... you go girl! [/cynicism]

[Paladin]

Sylvia says whatever she wants, and does not care what people think of it or how it makes others feel. You can do that when you're the head of a religion.

[The Don]

And now all we have to do is to "out" the rest of the psychics and get them all off-air ;)

[shemp]

Originally posted by CFLarsen


Absolutely. Which makes it a very good question why John Edward chooses to appear with her in Hawaii. Can't he see through her? Would he appear with Ms. Cleo as well?

It could be interesting to know why you think Sylvia is a fake. She has atrocious manners, we can quickly agree on that, but being a boor does not a fake make.

(Edited to remove typo)

Why, you would think that John Edward could just contact the dead people and find out where they are buried, and that would prove whether or not Sylvia is a fraud! :D

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by shemp
Why, you would think that John Edward could just contact the dead people and find out where they are buried, and that would prove whether or not Sylvia is a fraud! :D

Well, JE has appeared with James van Praagh and Suzane Northrop as well, also denounced by Clancie as fakes. Which makes it very interesting why she keeps silent on the matter.

Incidentally, JE has claimed to be "working with the police" before, but he claims to have stopped. One can wonder why.

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by KelvinG


I am guilty of stereotyping every now and then. I'm only human!
I retract the trailer park trash portion of my post. Members of this forum will please disregard my mention of this stereotype.

Well, I saw the report on TV, and the parents are ignorant and live in a trailer park. They fit the stereotype. But Sylvia should be ashamed for preying on these people. The mother broke down and was nodding her head in agreement when Sylvia said that the daughter was still with them and they should be hearing sounds and footsteps.

[Clancie]

Sylvia is apparently on Montel every Wednesday now. This family may be on tomorrow.....

(Kelvin...:) )....

[Brown]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer
The mother broke down and was nodding her head in agreement when Sylvia said that the daughter was still with them and they should be hearing sounds and footsteps. Yeah, this remark got my dander up, too. I suppose that sort of remark is supposed to be comforting, but from the parents' reaction, it was actually cruel. The parents wanted to know whether they would find their daughter and be with her again. Browne, calling the mother "Honey," assured her that the daughter was with her now. This caused the mother to sob even more intensely.

When you see something like that, the arguments that "this is just for entertainment purposes" or "everyone knows its fake" ring very hollow.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Brown
When you see something like that, the arguments that "this is just for entertainment purposes" or "everyone knows its fake" ring very hollow.

But the point is, it isn't for "entertainment purposes" for those who believe it. They take it dead(!) seriously, some even build their world around their beliefs.

Walking from medium to medium, until they find one who tells them what they need to hear. Then, they latch on to that medium, and nothing will sway them henceforth. Some even continue this search, almost collecting mediums like philatelists collect stamps.

It is very scary, this power these mediums have over people. Do not underestimate it.

[Brown]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
But the point is, it isn't for "entertainment purposes" for those who believe it. They take it dead(!) seriously, some even build their world around their beliefs.Yes, and in cases like this, people go to charlatans out of desperation. The police haven't found the child, the leads seem to have dried up, and the parents think, "If there is a chance, just a chance, that this psychic might help, shouldn't we take that chance?"

In their state of desperation, the false "certainty" of the psychic is more desirable than the uncertainty of the real world.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Brown
Yes, and in cases like this, people go to charlatans out of desperation. The police haven't found the child, the leads seem to have dried up, and the parents think, "If there is a chance, just a chance, that this psychic might help, shouldn't we take that chance?"

Oh, it doesn't even have to be cases like this. People visits a string of psychics to seek contact with their dead relatives, too. I've seen it happen.

Originally posted by Brown
In their state of desperation, the false "certainty" of the psychic is more desirable than the uncertainty of the real world.

Agreed. Those who claim "what harm does it do" forgets that keeping people in perpetual grief is very harmful. Engaging in ever disappointing forays into mediumship, until they have found the one that finally resembles what they want to hear cannot possibly be considered healthy.

(Edited for typo)

[Loki]

Marc,

It would not matter much, she had already gotten the details wrong in another case. She predicted some old man's body would be found on a hill side and he wasn't near any or something like that. But Montell still goes on to say that Sylvia gets the location right.
I remember another incident from 3 or 4 years ago - a bridge collapsed and 6 workers were killed. Sylvia went on air and announced that one missing body was trapped under thousands of tons of rumble and would never be recovered. The body washed up down stream a week later! Accuracy is not Sylvia's strong point ...

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Loki
Marc,


I remember another incident from 3 or 4 years ago - a bridge collapsed and 6 workers were killed. Sylvia went on air and announced that one missing body was trapped under thousands of tons of rumble and would never be recovered. The body washed up down stream a week later! Accuracy is not Sylvia's strong point ...

Sources?

[zakur]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Sources? Mention of the miss in Randi's April 13, 2001 Commentary (http://www.randi.org/jr/04-13-2001.html). I'll see if I can track down some primary source(s).

[Loki]

zakur,

Thanks for that - I'm sure I read of it somewhere else apart from the commentary. I'll hunt around a little. And yes, my memory doesn't agree exactly with the commentary info - for some reason "6 workers" sticks in my mind. I'll try to find more...

[Zep]

Sylvia and her ilk are either (a) insane, (b) have no moral concience, or (c) all of the above. Regardless, inevitably they are in it for the MONEY ONLY. Therefore any of the abovementioned public exposures and highlighting of her accuracy rates, gross misses and the even more gross manipulation of emotions in her victims is pointless, frankly. As long as the bucks roll in, they are crying all the way to the bank.

So the one and only way to stop Sylvia is to cut off her sources of funds. I imagine she is getting that from: personal readings, TV appearance fees, and the telephone psychic stuff. Book sales too, probably. I have a few ideas on how to stop these (public call for boycots, etc), but I would imagine there are some very imaginative ways the results could be achieved if we workshopped it! Ideas?

[zakur]

A search of Ontario newspapers in Infomart archives (http://financialpost.infomart.ca/) for "sylvia browne" netted just one hit: from The Windsor Star, Feb 22, 2001:Barker's body embedded in riverbed, psychic says
Donald McArthur, Star Staff Reporter

Jamie Barker will likely remain buried forever in a watery grave beneath the Ambassador Bridge, his widow was told by a renowned psychic on the Montel William's Show.However, Barker was not "buried forever" according to this later story from CNN:Painters rescued after bridge scaffold gives way (http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/06/21/bridge.accident/)

[...]

This is the second such incident at the bridge in less than a year. On November 14, scaffolding holding 10 other painters working for Manz Harrison Muir Inc. gave way in 25 mph winds, causing three of the workers to fall into the Detroit River.

Two of the men were pulled safely from the water, but the third worker, James Barker, 27, died in the fall. His body was not found until this spring.

[Stumpy]

Here's another one for Sylvia's crime busting scrap-book:

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/7298328.htm