Organic germanium

[Rolfe]

I was reminded a little while ago of a woo marketing campaign in the 1980s for "organic germanium".

I remember seeing posters in the pharmacy advertising the product, and thinking, this can't mean what I think it does. There was a picture of a yellow flower on the poster I think. I really don't think I'm imagining this.

Then later, I attended a biochemistry meeting which included a session on "science and non-science", which discussed a variety of woo claims. This one was mentioned, and the speaker said it did mean exactly what it said. His version was that the name sounded so cuddly that someone just decided to market it as a health food.

Germanium. In an organic (carbon) matrix.

I think kidney toxicity was the main clinical effect. From what I remember.

This was more than 20 years ago, before even the organic food fad took hold, and I thought it had vanished. The pharmacy promotion was very short-lived, certainly. However, when I googled it this evening, hoping to find an account of the scam and details of the harm that had been caused, I found instead a pile of woo sites promoting the stuff!

Here's a sample (http://www.organicgermanium.net/), a very very strange web site indeed.

The element of germanium was identified in 1886 by the German chemist Clemens Winkler. Throughout the mid 1900's, germanium gained recognition for its semiconductor properties, which made it ideal for use in transistors.

Germanium in its raw form is toxic to the human body, however in 1967 the late Kazuhiko Asai PhD. was successful in developing a water-soluble form of germanium, carboxy ethyl sesquioxide, which later would take on the name "Organic Germanium." (For more information: Miracle Cure by Kazuhiko Asai PhD.)

This new organic germanium proved to be safe when taken orally, with no damaging effects in lab rats with doses up to 10g/kg of body weight. (For more information: Germanium - The Health and Life Enhancer by Sandra Goodman PhD. Chapter 11)

As both orthodox scientific and alternative medicine research was carried out on this substance, both schools of study began to observe very encouraging results involving the healing power of organic germanium. (For more information: What Germanium Does)

Over the years there has been conflict over this substance as agencies in the United States and Japan have inaccurately associated this compound with its toxic inorganic form. This has led to strict import/export laws on both coasts. [...and so on...]
The google search (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22organic+germanium%22&btnG=Search&meta=) is just a slew of woo. Does anyone know anything more about this? I've not come across it since about 1988, and I don't see any debunking anywhere.

Rolfe.

[ZirconBlue]

Man, I was really confused there for a minute. I thought you said "organic geranium".



ETA: Germanium, is obviously a lesser element in the Jackson family.

[Soapy Sam]

I'm worse. I did read it as "geranium", then opened the thread , read the first three lines and felt my head starting to rotate...

[ZirconBlue]

I'm worse. I did read it as "geranium", then opened the thread , read the first three lines and felt my head starting to rotate...


I actually got as far as the quote box before figuring it out!

[Toke]

I have heard of germaniun diodes before, and have only cacti at home.

10g/kg is a huge amount, that much salt would likely kill you.
So it must be completely inactive in the body? Like that clorinated sugar stuff.

Edit, from wiki: Certain compounds of germanium have low toxicity to mammals, but have toxic effects against certain bacteria.[17] This property makes these compounds useful as chemotherapeutic agents.[64]

http://www.germaniumsesquioxide.com/
The reported LD50 for germanium sesquioxide is in excess of 6,300 mg/kg orally for mice, greater than 10,000 mg/kg orally for rats, and greater than 1,000 mg/kg intravenously for rats. Chronic exposure studies are equally impressive at 3,000 mg/kg orally for 6 months on rats with no toxicity, and 500 mg/kg intravenously for 6 months on dogs, also with no toxicity

Looks like the first page you found can´t tell LD50 from no harmfull effects.

[Rolfe]

Antibacterial properties? Never heard of such, I have to say.

The marketing was as a food supplement when I first came across it. The "cancer cure" stuff is entirely new to me.

The history and talk pages of that wiki article are interesting. The apparently kosher reference to anti-cancer properties relates to a paper dated 1983 (http://www.springerlink.com/content/w3u4886013440147/), referring to it as a new drug with potential (also, it seems to be a different formulation). If 1983 is the best reference that can be found, I feel that it can't have been that successful.

The reference to antibacterial properties is to a book not accessible online. This property, whatever it is, seems to be distinct from the possible chemotherapeutic property, despite the wording of the article.

There's evidence of woo promotion in the talk pages.

Rolfe.

[Toke]

I wondered about how antibacterial properties and chemotherapeutic use fit together.

For all I know pencilin is a chemical with therapeutic use, so the words could go together as something generic but normaly restricted to cancer.



"H'pathy Forums" Just checked your sig. "get her off the pill" Understand your dislike.

[Rolfe]

The kosher paper refers to possible anti-cancer properties, and possible anti-malarial properties, of a different form of germanium ("spirogermanium" as opposed to "germanium sesquioxide" or similar). Sometimes the same properties of a compound which kill micro-organisms are also useful to kill cancer cells. Being absolutely pedantic, antibacterials are classed as chemotherapeutic agents, but you're right, the word is usually used for anti-cancer drugs.

The spirogermanium paper is over 25 years old though, so it looks as if it went nowhere.

Rolfe.

[Toke]

Guess the whole thing went nowhere, if it worked for anything we would have seen it by now.

[neutrino_cannon]

I wonder if you could use it as a really sadistic rodenticide.

This sounds like one for the Annnals of Bizarre Woo.