Thoughts on “Revealing the Atheist Stereotype”

[Rodibidably]

Recently Atheist Revolution had a post: Revealing the Atheist Stereotype (http://www.atheistrev.com/2009/03/revealing-atheist-stereotype.html). On the post vjack said something that struck me as odd.
My goal here is not to challenge the accuracy of this stereotype but merely to uncover it so that we all know what each other means when we refer to the atheist stereotype.
While perhaps this is a noble goal, it is important to understand how others view you, I think it should be a goal to change those stereotypes when they are wrong, if not eliminate stereotypes all together.


So in an effort to accomplish this, I tried to post my thoughts on each of the 19 Atheist Stereotypes: Thoughts on “Revealing the Atheist Stereotype” (http://potomac9499.wordpress.com/2009/03/09/thoughts-on-revealing-the-atheist-stereotype/)


This seems like a good place to get feedback on my take on these points, so I'm curious, where am I right, wrong, and completely bat-**** insane in my ideas...

[fls]

I would recommend this book:

Atheists: A Groundbreaking study of America's Nonbelievers (http://www.amazon.com/Atheists-Groundbreaking-Study-Americas-Nonbelievers/dp/1591024137)

if you are going to write about what atheists are like. It's useful to be able to back up what you say with data.

Linda

[Rodibidably]

I would recommend this book:

Atheists: A Groundbreaking study of America's Nonbelievers (http://www.amazon.com/Atheists-Groundbreaking-Study-Americas-Nonbelievers/dp/1591024137)
I'll definitely have to get that book to see what it says about the type of person I am...

if you are going to write about what atheists are like. It's useful to be able to back up what you say with data.
As for my thoughts/comments to these stereotypes, I was primarily going with my personal experience (myself and people I know, etc). My post is not really meant to be the "end all be all" discussion on the topic of these stereotypes, it's more of just "here is why i think these stereotypes are ridiculous, even the ones that apply to me personally".

I think anytime you try to pigeon-hole a group as large as the atheist community you're going to be wrong. People have too many individual life experiences for them to fit any specific mold.

[fls]

I'll definitely have to get that book to see what it says about the type of person I am...

As for my thoughts/comments to these stereotypes, I was primarily going with my personal experience (myself and people I know, etc). My post is not really meant to be the "end all be all" discussion on the topic of these stereotypes, it's more of just "here is why i think these stereotypes are ridiculous, even the ones that apply to me personally".

I think anytime you try to pigeon-hole a group as large as the atheist community you're going to be wrong. People have too many individual life experiences for them to fit any specific mold.

I agree. I think we tend to approach these stereotypes from our personal perspective. And that is fairly easy to counter with the claim that you are not typical - i.e. "you may not be mean, but most atheists are."

Let's take point #18 as an example:

"are determined to convert everyone else to their religion of materialism and negativity (i.e., secular humanism)"

It's kinda nice to be able to say that in a survey of atheists and believers, only a minority of atheists (16%) would try to convert someone who was undecided and none of them want their beliefs taught in public schools, whereas the majority of theists/Christians (73% and 98%) would try to convert someone who was undecided and favour teaching their beliefs in public schools (51% and 84%).

Linda

[Apathia]

OMG! I've failed as an Atheist! :o

[Rodibidably]

I agree. I think we tend to approach these stereotypes from our personal perspective. And that is fairly easy to counter with the claim that you are not typical - i.e. "you may not be mean, but most atheists are."
Valid point, but I hate to speak for all atheists, as they still have not all elected me as their supreme leader (yet).

I'm actually hoping that some theist will challenge my comments by insisting the stereotype is true. If they can come up with evidence to support their claim (other than their own experience) then I'll probably have to look for evidence that refutes their claim (or accept their claim as valid if I can not find counter-evidence).

It's kinda nice to be able to say that in a survey of atheists and believers, only a minority of atheists (16%) would try to convert someone who was undecided and none of them want their beliefs taught in public schools, whereas the majority of theists/Christians (73% and 98%) would try to convert someone who was undecided and favour teaching their beliefs in public schools (51% and 84%).
This is a great point. To be able to include statistics like this would be a huge boon to the point I was trying to make. Perhaps after I order the book you mentioned, I may do a version 2.0 of this article with the statistics to back up my own experience (or the statistics to make the point that the atheists I know are f'd up and different from the "norm".

[HansMustermann]

IMHO it's useful to also have some idea why such stereotypes happen.

The short answer is: Cognitive Dissonance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance).

Long answer: when people have two conflicting pieces of information in their model (e.g., my mental model was that "all grass is green", but you just pointed out to me "this grass here is red") it will have to be resolved somehow, to get a self-consistent mental model again. But for humans one piece of the model may be too important to let go (e.g., "I'll get eternal life" or "I didn't just waste my life with this BS, I'd be stupid if I did.") So something else has to give.

The first implication is that you're dealing with a logic twisting exercise. Someone who already twisted their model because they really want believe X, won't stop it just because you supplied (voluntarily or by sheer virtue of being there or saying the wrong thing within earshot) a piece of information that conflicts with it. You're just creating a new dissonance, and it will probably be resolved to support the existing BS, just like the dissonances before it.

And chances are that if it's going to be solved by BS anyway, it's going to be solved by some BS that's unflattering to you. Just because it's the no-brainer way out. Between "OMG, I was gullible and wrong all this time" and "this guy's a meanie trying to tempt me from the right thing", the latter is the easy way out of the dissonance.

The second thing is that an unresolved cognitive dissonance, especially of the kind where the obvious piece can't go, is actually stressful and uncomfortable as long as it's unresolved. Just telling someone why you're an atheist, can actually create mental distress.

So, well, now you know why they won't be inclined to like you ;)

[Mark6]

I am pretty sure #4 is a projection. A lot of theists NEED higher power to give meaning to their lives (and many are quite open about it). They know that realization that there is no god WOULD drive them into depression, and can not imagine anyone else reacting differently.

You omitted one stereotype I find by far the most offensive: "There are no atheists in foxholes". IOW, atheism is only skin-deep, and everyone turns to god when in great danger. Which I know by personal experience is BS. I had never been in combat, but had been in situations where I could easily have died -- and had absolutely no desire to pray, appeal for "salvation", let alone "felt divine presence". Probably would have died if I wasted attention on such flimflam instead of concentrating on what I was doing!

[Bikewer]

I've always suspected that I'm evil.... As to the sexual promiscuity; perhaps if you count those sins by "thought"....

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

When it comes to this debate I think I answer the questions very differantly. I simply don't care. As I told a friend of mine once if there were only 1,000 atheists in the world and the rest of the 999 were all murdering-rapists and pedophiles I would still be an atheist. So much of the debate between theists and atheists seems centered around the moral superiority of whichever side you fall on. I've taken this to heart and consider now that perhaps the debate on the existence of god has long reached its logical conclusion and the only thing left is to determine who is more moral than other. I, for the life of me, don't know why the debate is going on. I've never met an individual who said he converted to/away from a/theism because of a supposed lack of moral fiber on the other side. But it sells books and puts butts in the seats so I guess it works.

I do have a comment to add concerning moral relativism and atheism. I was dissapointed to see that you didn't mention that atheism doesn't logically end with moral relativism. Simply because a clear majority finds X to be morally sound isn't a good indicator that those people receive that morality from their society, or that everyone agrees for that matter. Many individuals find extramarital affairs to be immoral but there is an entire sub-culture and line of pornography dedicated to that, which is evidence that the moral conclusion they arrived to is differant from that of larger society. While many, probably most, will accept societal morality due to any number of factors there are many who don't. I, for instance, completely reject societal morality and instead believe that morality should be reached based on logic and reason so that we may deduce moral facts. If the morality of society and I happen to agree that's nothing more than a coincidence, IMO.

[Skeptic Ginger]

It depends on whose doing the stereotyping more than what atheists are really like. I suspect atheists run the same gamut as theists. Both groups are diverse.

I found I enjoy the company of skeptics in our local groups but I had less in common with the atheists at their meetups. Too many of them believed in woo.

[Skeptic Ginger]

This should be fun. I agree or disagree with the following, and freely admit we all have stereotyped views to some degree.Atheists:

1. are politically liberal (e.g., support gay rights and abortion) Needs a qualification. I think atheists mostly support gay rights and abortion, but fiscal politics can be liberal or conservative.
2. hate Christianity and/or the Christian god Nonsense. Why would you hate something that doesn't exist. I think most atheists would base their opinion on the specific actions of the Christian in question and most wouldn't care about Christian religion that wasn't in the atheist's face.
3. trample people's rights of free religious expression It's in the eye of the beholder.
4. are always depressed, sad, or grumpylack hope That's absurd.
5. are immoral That's absurd.
6. are moral relativists Relative to evolution and biology, maybe.
7. are uncivil and do not respect others That's absurd.
8. are prideful and lack humility That's absurd.
9. are angry That's absurd.
10. are militant That's absurd.
11. are evil That's absurd.
12. are arrogant That's absurd. And isn't this the same as #8?
13. are mean, stingy, unforgiving, and generally horrible people That's absurd, and redundant.
14. are sexually promiscuous That's absurd. They may or may not be, atheism wouldn't be relative.
15. are more interested in science than the average person Possibly, but not a certainty.
16. are ignorant of scripture That's absurd.
17. have faith in evolution and worship Darwin That's absurd.
18. are determined to convert everyone else to their religion of materialism and negativity (i.e., secular humanism) Varies.
19. worship the devil or are agents of Satan That's an oxymoron. Worshiping Satan would make the person a theist.

Seems like quite a few of these overlap. And this would likely be the stereotype more zealous believers would have about atheists.

[minuscule1]

Who came up with this list? It seems that someone is projecting as to what they think non-atheist think of them. The whole list is absurd. Why label yourselves. Do atheist feel they have to be defined? The whole thread makes me think atheist feel persecuted. It's not a big deal, you don't believe in God/a God, right? A lot of people don't. :eek:

[Tricky]

My observations on the list and how it applies to me.

1. Are politically liberal (e.g., support gay rights and abortion)
I'd say that they lean to liberalism more so than the population as a whole. No surprise. Religious people lean more to conservatism. There are many exceptions. (Just look at the Politics forum here if you doubt this.)

2. Hate Christianity and/or the Christian god.
Mostly wrong. Some hate Christianity, at least the parts that made their lives so difficult. Some hate the way God would be if God were as the Christians (or other religions) describe. As for me, I'm okay with some descriptions of God/Spirit, not so much with vindictive, petty gods. But I don't believe in any of them, so I'm not really mad at them, just the fictional characters they represent.

3.trample people's rights of free religious expression.
Mostly not. Some get overzealous in trying to keep religion out of daily life. Certainly they are less likely to trample rights than religious people, IMO. Look at the London bus advert brou-ha-ha for a clear example of this.

4. Are always depressed, sad, or grumpy, lack hope.
Just the opposite of what I've found. Some tend to be more serious about life because they aren't expecting any do-overs, but the vast majority I've met love a good time better than anybody. And they have no prohibitions about dancing.

5. Are immoral
6. Are moral relativists
Really the same thing. Yes, atheists are immoral by many religious standards because a big part of the religious morality includes worshiping God. But by community standards, they are highly moral, and have a much smaller presence in the criminal community than various God worshipers. But everybody is a moral relativist. Some don't admit it, but religious people are quite prone to condemn the morality of other religions.

7. Are uncivil and do not respect others
Hardly. Most atheists are indistinguishable. It is just the noisy ones that seem uncivil, just like the noisy Christians like Fred Phelps. I know that it is almost impossible for an atheist to keep from being banned on many religious forums, but we have quite a few Christians and other religious types here. As for respect, it is a hard thing to say. Some religious people think that if you don't respect their beliefs that you don't respect them. Oddly, they don't see it the other way when they fail to respect atheism.


8. Are prideful and lack humility.
Humility to God? Yeah, they lack humility toward an entity they don't believe in. Humility about themselves? That's a laugh. Most atheists I know are very aware of what a small a part of the universe they comprise. This is in sharp comparison to people who think the universe was made for them, and that God looks just like them.

9. Are angry.
As much as any group of people that are widely discriminated against are angry, yes, atheists are angry. Sort of like Christians who think their religion is discriminated against. Overall, though, I've found them to be more accepting of the way the universe doesn't favor or oppose them.

10. Are militant.
Pretty few, though more recently than in the past. In the old days, people could only name one militant atheist, Madeline Murray O'Hare. Now they've got a wider selection. Still, their ranks pale beside militant religious figures. In the Real World, I never mention my atheism except around friends who know me well. By contrast, I know a lot of people who think "Praise Jesus" is punctuation.

11. Are evil.
See "immoral" above. Evil is nothing but a type of immorality that has a religious context. Evil is most often defined as working against God. Atheists don't work against imaginary characters.

12. Are arrogant
See "prideful" above. Maybe they're arrogant about knowing what synonyms are.

13. Are mean, stingy, unforgiving, and generally horrible people.
Just the opposite of what I've seen. True, they don't donate as much to religious-based charities, but based on what I've seen here, they are more philanthropic than most, and without strings attached.

14. Are sexually promiscuous.
Meh. Hard to say. Maybe so. They don't have a commandment about this. Also, they tend to be more liberal, so maybe they are overall more promiscuous. Not by a lot though. They're also aware that AIDS is not a punishment from God.


15. Are more interested in science than the average person.
This one is probably true. They tend to be more educated than the general populace, and usually that includes science. Since they don't have mythology to give them answers, they tend to seek them in reality.

16. Are ignorant of scripture
LOL. That's rich. Most atheists in Christian cultures are far more knowledgeable about scripture than the average Christian.

17. Have faith in evolution and worship Darwin.
No and no. Faith is belief without evidence. Atheists tend to be aware of the evidence for evolution, though there are exceptions. They don't worship anybody or any god, though most respect brilliant scientists like Darwin. This particular stereotype is the result of the ongoing battle by creationists to discredit evolution because it interferes with the worship of their myth. So they ascribe their own faith and worship to atheists in the opposite direction. I'm guessing they are simply incapable of understanding a life without faith and worship.

18. Are determined to convert everyone else to their religion of materialism and negativity (i.e., secular humanism)
Many like to debate. They are no more likely to try and "convert" anyone than Christians are with their proselytizing. They don't have missionaries either.
19. Worship the devil or are agents of Satan
No, that would be Satanists, which are an offshoot of Christianity. To Atheists, Satan is just one more supernatural being they don't believe in.a

[Mark6]

19. worship the devil or are agents of Satan That's an oxymoron. Worshiping Satan would make the person a theist
I think the idea is that merely being an unbeliever is somehow worship of Satan, even if the unbeliever is not aware of. Related to the idea (which I had seen) that it is impossible for a human to "reject god" without Satan's prodding. If you are an atheist, it means Satan took control of you, whether you know it or not.

[The Atheist]

Valid point, but I hate to speak for all atheists, as they still have not all elected me as their supreme leader (yet).

Lucky I'm here then!

Arguing the points with religionistas is futile, because all of the stereotypes are true anyway.

Just ask them why they care. Their god has damned me and my family, even unto the fourth generation, so why do theists give a damn about what I think or do in the meantime? Vengeance is mine saith the lord.

If theists are so confident that an omnipotent & omnipresent sky-daddy, made up of love, actually exists, why on earth would you ever worry about what atheists think? This sky-daddy has promised you an eternal life of happiness with all the people you like! Who the **** cares what atheists do?

I am pretty sure #4 is a projection. A lot of theists NEED higher power to give meaning to their lives (and many are quite open about it). They know that realization that there is no god WOULD drive them into depression, and can not imagine anyone else reacting differently.

Absolutely correct.

Theists lie awake in cold sweats at night about what they'd be capable of if they weren't held in check by their love for the sky-daddy.

[INRM]

Well, I personally am reluctant to tell people I'm an atheist because I think it immediately conjures up images of an angry person calling everybody else "stupid, delusional, weak-minded, mentally-deficient/mentally-ill" and so on.

Not to mention that when some people hear Atheist (this is actually less prevalent these days, but still) they think amoral hedonists trying to have as much fun in their life and don't have any rule about breaking rules/laws to do it so long as they can get away with it as this is all they got (which is essentially labeling all atheists as sociopaths) before they drop dead.

I usually either say I'm not religious -- because that is far more acceptable than saying I'm an atheist. Even, oddly, saying I don't believe in God actually goes over better than saying I'm an atheist -- even though they mean exactly the same thing.


INRM

[Correa Neto]

Let's see how I fit within the sterotype...
1. are politically liberal (e.g., support gay rights and abortion)
Check.
2. hate Christianity and/or the Christian god
Nope. But I do have a deep disgust for some of the consequences of some Biblically-inspired doctrines. However, I also enjoy some things which came from them.
3. trample people's rights of free religious expression
Nope. Feel free to express yourself. But please respect the law and my right to express myself.
4. are always depressed, sad, or grumpylack hope
Nope.
5. are immoral
Nope. Unless you consider immoral to not believe in god.
6. are moral relativists
To a certain point, yes.
7. are uncivil and do not respect others
Nope.
8. are prideful and lack humility
Nope.
9. are angry
Nope.
10. are militant
Nope.
11. are evil
Nope.
12. are arrogant
Nope.
13. are mean, stingy, unforgiving, and generally horrible people
I don't think so.
14. are sexually promiscuous
I wish I were, LOL!
15. are more interested in science than the average person
Check.
16. are ignorant of scripture
Nope
17. have faith in evolution and worship Darwin
Its not faith, its being aware of evidence that evolution works. Its not worship, its admiration for Darwin.
18. are determined to convert everyone else to their religion of materialism and negativity (i.e., secular humanism)
Nope. But I may discuss the subject with a theist if he/she wants.
19. worship the devil or are agents of Satan
Nope. Don't believe in supernatural beings, good or bad.

Stereotype FAIL!

[Mark6]

I usually either say I'm not religious -- because that is far more acceptable than saying I'm an atheist. Even, oddly, saying I don't believe in God actually goes over better than saying I'm an atheist -- even though they mean exactly the same thing.
I think (this is not a joke) people are put off by one but not the other because of "-ist" in "atheist". Any "-ism" -- nationalism, communism, socialism, existentialism, you name it, -- is an ideology. Saying "I am a xxxx-ist" means "I subscribe to such and such ideology", while saying "I don't believe in God" means, explicitly, that I do not have an ideology. It's a much less threatening statement.

Of course, atheism is precisely that -- not an ideology but an absence of one. But too many people have hard time grasping it. Especially if the only atheists they hear are the ones like Dawkins, for whom it IS an ideology.

[linusrichard]

Okay, I'll bite:

1. are politically liberal (e.g., support gay rights and abortion)
Yes, especially on the gay rights.
2. hate Christianity and/or the Christian god
I don't hate the Christian God. I wouldn't say I hate Christianity, although I might go so far as to say that I hate certain expressions of Christianity. I try not to hate Fred Phelps, but I sure hate his Christianity. But Christianity as a whole, no.
3. trample people's rights of free religious expression
Ha ha ha ha ha! No. Of course, if this were worded honestly, I might say yes. What they probably mean is that atheists don't want publicly funded displays of religious belief, or that atheists are against gay-bashing. But if you are asking if I am in favor of "trampl people's rights of free religious expression," then, No, I am not.
4. are always depressed, sad, or grumpy, lack hope
Absolutely not.
5. are immoral
No, for the most part. I have done things I consider immoral, and probably will again. But on the whole, I am moral.
6. are moral relativists
I'm not sure if I understand the term correctly. I glanced at the wikipedia article on moral relativism, and it seems muddled. There are some things that describe me and some that do not. So I guess I will answer this yes, to a limited extent.
7. are uncivil and do not respect others
Absolutely not.
8. are prideful and lack humility
Mostly not. I would say that I am more humble/less prideful than your average person. Please don't look to this answer as evidence!
9. are angry
As a general state of being, no. There's that bumper sticker, "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." I listen to the news, I sometimes get angry. I would say that it has nothing to do with my atheism.
10. are militant
With respect to atheism, no. With respect to [i]my atheism, maybe. With respect to a few issues, maybe.
11. are evil
No.
12. are arrogant
No, generally.
13. are mean, stingy, unforgiving, and generally horrible people
No, no, no, and no, respectively. I'm a little stingy in my personal life - i.e. not wanting to spend too much money on myself, but I'm not ungenerous. I'm a good tipper. And as for forgiving - it's a funny thing, but I still carry around a lot of the moral lessons from when I was a Catholic, when I was a kid. So I believe in "love your enemy," and "judge not," and "be thou perfect," and I believe in "forgive not seven times but seventy times seven." So although I can't say I always practice it, I see forgiveness as a high virtue, and I try to. Because of Jesus. Even though I'm an atheist. Think of it this way - let's say I really liked Atticus Finch and wanted to emulate him. Only it's a different fictional character.
14. are sexually promiscuous
I've had a couple of one-night-stands and casual hookups, but I've also been with one person for the past six years, and only three people for the past approximately ten years. So... maybe, but if so, not very.
15. are more interested in science than the average person
Yes.
16. are ignorant of scripture
No. I daresay I know more than the average Christian. But far less than some Christians.
17. have faith in evolution and worship Darwin
I believe in evolution, but it's not faith as I define faith, no. And I don't worship anyone, even Darwin, no.
18. are determined to convert everyone else to their religion of materialism and negativity (i.e., secular humanism)
No. For one, I have no religion. For two, I don't know about "materialism," but I'm not negative, and secular humanism is not negative. The question reflects ignorance of secular humanism. I don't really go around thinking of myself as a secular humanist, although I guess I am one. For three (and to really answer the question), I don't seek converts at all. I rarely discuss my atheism unless it's brought up.
19. worship the devil or are agents of Satan
No.

So what is that, three easy yeses, and two closer calls? I will say this stereotype fits me not very well.

[linusrichard]

Also, just to point out - There are different forms of Satanism, and what is arguably the main one does not worship Satan, or believe that Satan exists as a being or deity, etc. I don't know if this form of Satanism is explicitly atheist, but it is compatible with atheism. Satan is basically used as a metaphor, a personification of a principle.

So although question 19 is stupid (because atheists can't worship Satan), atheists can be Satanists. OT, I guess.

[Beerina]

OMG! I've failed as an Atheist! :o

Me too, brudda. :)





And I had no idea I worshipped both Darwin and Satan!

Isn't that kind of like being in love with two women at the same time, i.e. impossible?


Those line items reveal astounding, world-class ignorance. Actually, they reveal lying...by a Christian, since anyone who bothered to investigate would see that we don't have "faith" in evolution and the like.

[Dr H]

I would recommend this book:

Atheists: A Groundbreaking study of America's Nonbelievers (http://www.amazon.com/Atheists-Groundbreaking-Study-Americas-Nonbelievers/dp/1591024137)

if you are going to write about what atheists are like. It's useful to be able to back up what you say with data.

Linda

There's a fallacy, I think, in treating atheists as a demographic in the same way one would treat, say, Catholics, or Hassidic Jews. While both theists and atheists can come from a wide variety of ethnic and cultural backgrounds, theists of any particular religious sect share a dogmatic belief system; atheists do not.

Among my atheist friends, for example, are to be found ex-Catholics, ex-Methodists, ex-Orthodox Jews, ex-Reform Jews, ex-Mormons, ex-Shia Muslims, ex-Sunni Muslims, Ex-Moonies, and even ex-Unitarian Universalists. There are even a couple of what David Eller would call "natural atheists" -- people who were raised without any particular religious faith, and who continue to be atheists as adults.

One stereotype which I've often heard -- particularly in on-line fora -- is that skeptic = atheist. Quite unsupported by the facts. While skeptics are frequently athiests, atheists are by no means universally skeptical in outlook. Many of the atheists I know, for example, are skeptical only when to comes to religious belief. In other matters they will cheerfully use and promote things like homeopathy, psychic "energy", Reike therapy, astrology, and the purchase of bridges from smiling men in gaudy suits. Were it only true that atheists were "more interested in science than the average person," I -would- be out there trying to convert people to atheism.

Treating atheists as a demographic group is, in my opinion, a little like treating people who believe that OJ Simpson got away with murder as a demographic group. It's an artificial grouping of people who are in fact distirbuted across a wide range of demographic groups.

Not that one can't greate a group of strawmen and then stereotype them, but it's at least as fallacious to argue about what the "real" characteristics of that strawman group are.

[Dr H]

I found I enjoy the company of skeptics in our local groups but I had less in common with the atheists at their meetups. Too many of them believed in woo.

Bingo.

[Dr H]

Who came up with this list? It seems that someone is projecting as to what they think non-atheist think of them. The whole list is absurd.

That's a little how I reacted to it. It doesn't seem to be a particularly well thought-out list, even though it does touch on some common atheist stereotypes. There's too much overlap and ambiguity, and it doesn't even include some very common stereotypes (e.g., all atheists are skeptics), while including others that come up only in certain rarified contexts (atheists "worship Darwin"??).

[Dr H]

I think the idea is that merely being an unbeliever is somehow worship of Satan, even if the unbeliever is not aware of. Related to the idea (which I had seen) that it is impossible for a human to "reject god" without Satan's prodding. If you are an atheist, it means Satan took control of you, whether you know it or not.

Damn.

So that means I'm really a Satanist and I didn't even know it?

Crap, now I have to go out and buy a crucifix, so I can hang it upside down...

[Dr H]

Well hell, I guess I'd better take the Test and see how I stack up:

[All atheists in the universe :]
1. are politically liberal (e.g., support gay rights and abortion)

These are two diffferent questions.
As to the first, No, I am apolitical.
As to the second, Yes; I support human rights. This is a social position
unrelated to my political beliefs other than superficially.

2. hate Christianity and/or the Christian god

No. I don't really hate much of anything; it's hard for me to get that
passionately worked up over 'anities and 'isms. I dislike Christianity to the same
extent that I dislike any religion. Since there is no God, it would be impossible for
me to hate it.

3. trample people's rights of free religious expression

No. In fact, as a social activist I have done all im my power to promote fair
treatment of a -diversity- of social/political/religious opinions and avctivities.

4. are always depressed, sad, or grumpy; lack hope

No. Moi? I'm so far from "depressed" most of the time that it verges on
manic. :)

5. are immoral
6. are moral relativists

Morality itself is relative.
So based on #6, No to #5.
And Yes to #6, with the qualification that everyone is really a moral
relitivist; some just don't like to admit it.

7. are uncivil and do not respect others

No. I'm more respectful than many religious zealots I've met. Though I'll
freely admit that I have little respect to lavish on proven jerks or a**holes,
and cheerfully fling back barbs if they are first flung at me.

8. are prideful and lack humility

Absolutely not. In fact, I am proud of my humility, and
humble about my pride. :)

9. are angry

No. At least, never without cause, and seldom for long. In those rare
situations in which I have been seriously angered, atheism typically has
had little or nothing to do with it. (qv #7, "a**holes)

10. are militant

No. Though I consider changing this from time to time. I consider militancy
in service of a good cause to be a virtue.

11. are evil

In re: #6, No. YMMV. ;)

12. are arrogant

Hell, no! Just because I'm usually more knowledgeble than the hoi poloi, and
consequently always right, people sometimes mistake my candor for arrogance. :D
(with a nod to "Calvin & Hobbes")

13. are mean, stingy, unforgiving, and generally horrible people

No. Just ask those people who haven't mistaken my candor for arrogance.
I've worked as a community volunteer for most of my adult life, and I regularly
forgive religious zealots for the misery they continually attempt to share with me. ;)

14. are sexually promiscuous

No. Not that -- if the opportunity arose, you understand -- I would
necessarily dismiss the concept out of hand, without giving it full
due consideration ...

15. are more interested in science than the average person

Yes, but with the qualifier that my interest in sceince is not motivated by
my atheism. I was highly interested in science before I became an atheist.

16. are ignorant of scripture

No, emphatically. I know scripture better than most of the religious zealots
who preach it at me, and I have read more Bibles (different versions) than any
Christian I know, with the exception of one Theology professor, who even though
he was raised a Roman Catholic really considers himself a Buddhist, and probably
doesn't really count, anyway.

17. have faith in evolution and worship Darwin

No. I accept evolution on the basis of evidence, not faith.
And I worship no one, and no thing.

18. are determined to convert everyone else to their religion of materialism and
negativity (i.e., secular humanism)

No, superficially, but that's really a complex question, and therefor fallacious.
Atheists are not necessarily secular humanists (I am not a secular humanist, for
example); materialism is not a religion; secular humanism is neither a religion, nor is
it about promoting negativity. Do atheists only beat their wives on Sundays?

19. worship the devil or are agents of Satan

Until mere moments ago I would have immediately and unreservedly answered "no" to
this one, but after reading post #15, now I'm not so sure. :degrin: