Freeman on the Land in America/lawful rebellion/sovereign citizens

[zooterkin]

that doesnt make her a freeman on the land, that makes her deluded.


That's an awfully fine hair you're splitting there. ;)

[The Don]

It makes you wonder how he managed to stay in business for 20+ years.

I suspect that he only considered Freeman ideas once the business was in trouble. Before that, he ran the business along conventional lines until it ran into trouble.

[jargon buster]

It makes you wonder how he managed to stay in business for 20+ years.
Thats easy, he was "asleep" all his life, its only when he "woke up" that his problems started.

I always find it funny that CTs always claim to be "awake" and its this state of awareness that brings paranoia and delusion.

[John Albert]

I feel sorry for Aposolous. I'm guessing he was feeling rather desperate. He ran a reasonably successful restaurant chain until the economic problems of the last few years took their toll. After dealing with the gut-wrenching process of bankruptcy for several months, he somehow gets mixed up with this crazy Arizona "super-patriot" guy who pitches him some arcane legal solution to resolve his financial problems. For some reason, Apostolous fails to recognize Home as a foamy, right-wing nut. Maybe he's a Glenn Beck fan. Who knows?

Apparently, this "Home" guy (can that possibly be his real name?!?) is a "multibillionaire activist" who's been running the same type of scam on foreclosure victims in Arizona. This radio interview with Home (http://www.morningliberty.com/2010/11/21/a4v-marshall-home-saves-homes-radio-interview/) is quite revealing. Home says he spent several years in Costa Rica working as a "healer," and claims he has the power to "look inside peoples' bodies" and "reconstruct peoples' bodies" with his hands. So the guy has a history of preying on the disadvantaged. I wouldn't be surprised if he charges fees for his "legal advice."

[16.5]

I feel sorry for Aposolous. I'm guessing he was feeling rather desperate. He ran a reasonably successful restaurant chain until the economic problems of the last few years took their toll. After dealing with the gut-wrenching process of bankruptcy for several months, he somehow gets mixed up with this crazy Arizona "super-patriot" guy who pitches him some arcane legal solution to resolve his financial problems. For some reason, Apostolous fails to recognize Home as a foamy, right-wing nut. Maybe he's a Glenn Beck fan. Who knows?

Apparently, this "Home" guy (can that possibly be his real name?!?) is a "multibillionaire activist" who's been running the same type of scam on foreclosure victims in Arizona. This radio interview with Home (http://www.morningliberty.com/2010/11/21/a4v-marshall-home-saves-homes-radio-interview/) is quite revealing. Home says he spent several years in Costa Rica working as a "healer," and claims he has the power to "look inside peoples' bodies" and "reconstruct peoples' bodies" with his hands. So the guy has a history of preying on the disadvantaged. I wouldn't be surprised if he charges fees for his "legal advice."

Don't feel too bad for Aposolous, he and his family were pulling $2 million a year out of the company, before the bank forced them to cut down to a mere $900k.

Further, he filed a document in the bankruptcy accusing the United States of fraud, and "cancelling the contract with the Court" and therefore terminating the hearing to appoint a trustee that had been set by the Judge.

Several hundred people work for this Company and this clown wants to **** all over them.

[Scoot Meevo]

A guy was trying to tell me over the weekend about some 'freeman' who was getting out of court scot-free for something until he engaged the court by taking a toothpick out of his mouth at the Judge's request, therefore iving 'consent' and leading to his arrest. He also tried to tell me that some Commercial law was the only law that counted since 1933. I hadn't heard of either of these so didn't give him a reply and simply said I'll have to check it out.

Turns out the Commercial Law appears to be the UCC, which is a law for traders and wasn't initially drafted until 1942 and wasn't law until 1952. I could see nothing that suggested it had priority over any other law or even that it was relevant to this country (Scotland).

As for the 'toothpick' story - I was assured if I searched "the toothpick case" I'd be able to read all about it. Well I did, and in amongst hundreds of links to cases for toothpicks, I eventually found two pages that referenced a passage from the Mary Croft book, quoted almost verbatim in both cases, that gave no details of the name of the 'freeman', the nature of the trial or even where it took place. In fact, no details to suggest it was anything more than a paragraph out of a book.


Is it wrong that I'm surprised just how thin the arguments are? Both the guy's points were on the same web-page (also selling the Zeitgeist: Moving Forward movie) and could be easily questioned with 5 minutes of googling.

[Boot2TheHead]

The toothpick thing is them trying to rationalize why they keep losing even when they do the whole magical ritual right. Although, I'm actually really surprised that the "you accidently gave consent by taking your hat off/looking up when the judge said your name/said 'what?' when the judge said 'personsayswhat'" explanation comes up a lot more than the more predictable "the judge is corrupt, and totally should have dismissed the case when you called common law".

I guess it saves them from having to finally answer to whom the judge is answerable when he is in "dishonor" for not recognizing the rules that Freemen made up.

These people are so ardent in their belief (so cocksure in fact, that anybody who disagrees with them MUST be paid to!), it really is frustrating to see how flimsy the arguments that convinced them are. A drowning person will clutch at straw(men). Although I believe that it has less to do with desperation than sheer refusal to take any responsability and accepting any excuse (or again, rationalization) for it.

What amazes me is that they pick a fight against invisible entities that they made up and LOSE.

[The Platypus]

I refuse consent to be governed by your delusional "common law"...

So much for natural, universal acceptance huh...

[jargon buster]

I spent two years on the freeman forums,I have heard every story and anecdote there is.
Not once has the idiocy ever worked yet they still keep trying, well just a very select few do.
David Ickes site used to be full of them there are around 4 torch carriers now most of the others just faded away when they saw the gurus failing in every debate.
World Freeman society has listed over 6000 members,there are only around 20 active members, 4,500 of those "members" are spambots with either zero or one post.
TPUC just talk about chemtrails and satanic worship.

It was just a passing fad due to recessions,Im sure it will do the rounds again at some point.

Menard keeps banging on about his withdrawal of consent and equality,strangely enough both of those theories automatically cancel each other out.
If his withdrawal of consent is lawful then by definition he has an advantage over others and therefore is not their equal.
Equality surely means we must all follow the same rules or all be able to abandon those rules.
So if we all are able to abandon the rules then Menards withdrawal of consent means nothing because we can all ignore him as there are no rules. :cool:

[BStrong]

I've just become familar with this FOTL foolishness, through a business related incident.

Without going into detail ( I can't) an individual claiming FOTL status is threatening legal action against my employer.

Basic gist is that the individual in question is not subject to any rules said individual does not approve of and agree to, but all other individuals and entities that said individual comes into contact with are subject to all of said individual's rules...whether they are aware of said rules or not.

Didn't work well with the arresting officer, and didn't work with us.

[beren]

Basic gist is that the individual in question is not subject to any rules said individual does not approve of and agree to, but all other individuals and entities that said individual comes into contact with are subject to all of said individual's rules...whether they are aware of said rules or not.




What a succinct summary.

[KingMerv00]

Without going into detail ( I can't) an individual claiming FOTL status is threatening legal action against my employer.

Take heart. I have NEVER heard a freeman describe law in an accurate way. Not even close.

Keeping that in mind, I have high hopes for you.

[Scoot Meevo]

I've just become familar with this FOTL foolishness, through a business related incident.

Without going into detail ( I can't) an individual claiming FOTL status is threatening legal action against my employer.

Basic gist is that the individual in question is not subject to any rules said individual does not approve of and agree to, but all other individuals and entities that said individual comes into contact with are subject to all of said individual's rules...whether they are aware of said rules or not.

Didn't work well with the arresting officer, and didn't work with us.

So I guess he isn't interested in consenting to that law which requires payment for his labours? lol

[hgc]

My understanding is that there are no sovereign citizen guru's out there. Watching a 60 minutes episode on it is something like watching howard sterns hollywood hooker squares. Yes you see hookers but have no idea what they do or even if they are real women.

I have serious doubts that a real one would show his face on tv either. I really dont have enough information to know what you saw.

All I know is that if they're wearing undies under there, then they're not the real deal.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_5434e00d2370bf7d.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=23585)

[MNBrant]

All I know is that if they're wearing undies under there, then they're not the real deal.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_5434e00d2370bf7d.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=23585)

Wrong episode. That was the klan episode and I have doubts that was real even though I dont know much about the klan.

[hgc]

Wrong episode. That was the klan episode and I have doubts that was real even though I dont know much about the klan.

I understand what you're saying, except for every single word of it.

[fuelair]

Well it does sound like the government is going to do something about them. Wonder what it is? Does it involve mancatchers and battering rams?Don't much care - they're idiots and they bring on whatever happens to them.

[MNBrant]

I understand what you're saying, except for every single word of it.

I remember watching the howard stern tv show the first year it came out. I thought your were referring to it with the kilt. I have autobiographical memory.

[hgc]

I remember watching the howard stern tv show the first year it came out. I thought your were referring to it with the kilt. I have autobiographical memory.

Ah, I see. Actually I was referring to this -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

As for that TV show, I also have lots of wonderful memories. It was on Saturday nights. My roommate would tape it, and we'd watch it with breakfast in the morning, just before The McLaughlin Report. Underdog Girl. Richard Simmons. The Head Injury Club for Men, with Gary Busey. Mark Harris. Joan Rivers. Hollyweird Squares. Ah, good times.

[MNBrant]

Ah, I see. Actually I was referring to this -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

As for that TV show, I also have lots of wonderful memories. It was on Saturday nights. My roommate would tape it, and we'd watch it with breakfast in the morning, just before The McLaughlin Report. Underdog Girl. Richard Simmons. The Head Injury Club for Men, with Gary Busey. Mark Harris. Joan Rivers. Hollyweird Squares. Ah, good times.

The one I was referring to was a 70 year old klansman in robes when asked if he had anything under his robes spread his legs wide and gave howard a peek. Wasnt all that good. Hollywood hooker squares was funny but sad.

[rustypouch]

I'd be fine with them not paying taxes, as long as the don't have access to any of the things taxes pay for.

Granted, this might be tricky to enforce, but then how long can someone drive around without a license plate before they get pulled over?

[MNBrant]

I'd be fine with them not paying taxes, as long as the don't have access to any of the things taxes pay for.

Granted, this might be tricky to enforce, but then how long can someone drive around without a license plate before they get pulled over?

Are you fine with anybody who doesnt pay taxes not having access to things people pay taxes for? For instance GE didn't pay taxes.

[zooterkin]

I have autobiographical memory.

Is there another kind?

[sadhatter]

I'm actually reading Croft's book now, it's a real hoot.



:D

Why is it even when freemen can write the situation themselves, they come off as ********? Seriously, every scenario they posit makes them come off as a failed Mary Sue, the hero is always doing soemthing sketchy then the writer says " see, that is what being a freeman is. "

The friend in that story is an *******, he should have understood that he couldn't pay his friend back, in any way before hand, and his offer to let his buddy eat there is just silly.

Heck no i don't mind you just shafted me, just as long as i can get my money back in tiny bits as long as your restaurant is successful ( and by the obvious evidence in said story, said friend doesn't have good business sense, so how long this is , is a real coin toss. ) , and you decide to let me.

I mean if your just going to spin a fantasy tale of being awesome, why not actually make yourself come off as awesome instead of a sketchbag who took advantage of his friend and essentially put him into a " Well this is better than nothing" situation.

[timhau]

Basic gist is that the individual in question is not subject to any rules said individual does not approve of and agree to, but all other individuals and entities that said individual comes into contact with are subject to all of said individual's rules...whether they are aware of said rules or not.

In other words, their world view is that of a spoiled 4-year-old.

[Ladewig]

In other words, their world view is that of a spoiled 4-year-old.

Well, that doesn't capture all the flavor of this brand of kookiness. A 4-year old will say "because I said so." A FMOTL will (mis)use Latin phrases and legal jargon to justify the childish behavior.

[ComfySlippers]

A 4-year old will say "because I said so." A FMOTL will (mis)use Latin phrases and legal jargon to justify the childish behavior.

Whilst I disapprove of your spelling of behaviour, (:p), you have pretty much summed up the essence of FOTL-Woo.

(Hi Rob the conman:D :))

[timhau]

Well, that doesn't capture all the flavor of this brand of kookiness. A 4-year old will say "because I said so." A FMOTL will (mis)use Latin phrases and legal jargon to justify the childish behavior.

OK, I stand corrected.

FOTL world view is similar to the world view of a spoiled, retarded 12-year-old who has been severely overexposed to Harry Potter.

[BStrong]

In other words, their world view is that of a spoiled 4-year-old.

That's exactly correct.

The only difference is a 4 year old doesn't have access to the civil legal system on their own. The corporation I'm employed by is now being sued in small claims, and I am as an individual as well.

I haven't spoken w/ the arresting officer yet, but I'd be surprised if he hasn't at the very least been on the recieving end of a civilian complaint.

[TSR]

.
'e ain't spoilt -- 'e's always smelt loik 'at...
.

[abaddon]

That's exactly correct.

The only difference is a 4 year old doesn't have access to the civil legal system on their own. The corporation I'm employed by is now being sued in small claims, and I am as an individual as well.

I haven't spoken w/ the arresting officer yet, but I'd be surprised if he hasn't at the very least been on the recieving end of a civilian complaint.

Would you like to flesh that out? (I am aware that may not be possible, given an ongoing legal process).

[LightinDarkness]

I've just become familar with this FOTL foolishness, through a business related incident.

Without going into detail ( I can't) an individual claiming FOTL status is threatening legal action against my employer.

Basic gist is that the individual in question is not subject to any rules said individual does not approve of and agree to, but all other individuals and entities that said individual comes into contact with are subject to all of said individual's rules...whether they are aware of said rules or not.

Didn't work well with the arresting officer, and didn't work with us.

You know, I've been looking for a "two sentence" version of explaining FOTL lunacy, and I think this just about does it. It just about sums up what people who believe they are Freeman on the Land think they can do.

Unfortunately for them...what they think...and what reality is....are always two different things.

[jargon buster]

I think my sig now fully debunks the withdrawal of consent theory.

[mushy]

Hi guys i just wanted to say. That ive recently confirmed my hypothesis, that all FMOTL were actually molested as children. I've had various FMOTL email me to confirm they too were molested. I will not of course be posting any of their names or details. Just take my word for it.

[Paul]

Hi guys i just wanted to say. That ive recently confirmed my hypothesis, that all FMOTL were actually molested as children. I've had various FMOTL email me to confirm they too were molested. I will not of course be posting any of their names or details. Just take my word for it.That's not true, not clever and certainly not funny, do you have anything to say beyond declaring your own idiocy?

[ComfySlippers]

I think my sig now fully debunks the withdrawal of consent theory.

I think Menard's own current sig at DIF debunks himself:
(Bold is mine)

Let me try and explain the difference to you: Rob is right. The government is a con trick. A few people are making money off the suffering of others. If, to get that message to the gullible, Rob has to violate the rules of the Law Society, I consider that a price worth paying.

ETA: And you really do have to be incredibly gullible to believe Conman: of the Menard Family's message.

[jargon buster]

can a member on Ickes try and persuade this guy to come over here and tell us how he doesnt pay for anything
http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1059993842&postcount=21

Wrong ,Wrong Wrong I have two trusts and a LLC I do not pay for anything.


The biggest misinformation is about the CQV trust, dont waste your time chasing down this dead dog.

Ever since incorporated my own trust , the CQV has been dead and I opperate through my private trust (estate). The CQV is owned and opperated through your government and you get to use it as a privilege not a right.

You have to act as an independent and not part of the public trust.

The whole secret is to be independant. Everybody I know who opperates as an independent does NOT contact or take any benefits from the CQV for anything and I mean anything.



Everything from that trust is a benefit privilege and your screwed before you start.

I know people who have opperated outside of the public trust for 7 years.

Your government is a corporation face it and you are subjected to the company rules just like any other company. Why is this so hard to understand.


People have this underlying need to belong to something. WHY?

I do find his last line rather strange, surely if he doesn't pay for anything then that money is coming from somewhere, isn't that something that he belongs to?

PS it looks like willie1959 and freelove are about to start scamming the gullible over there, both new people and both pushing the same idea, they appear to be creditors in commerce salesmen

[mushy]

That's not true, not clever and certainly not funny, do you have anything to say beyond declaring your own idiocy?

It is true.

[jargon buster]

Its not true in the fact that there is no such thing as a "freeman on the land"

[Sledge]

do you have anything to say beyond declaring your own idiocy?

It is true.
:D

[JoeB]

It is true.

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr56/shake1n1bake/st8759_I20see20you20troll.jpg

[BStrong]

Would you like to flesh that out? (I am aware that may not be possible, given an ongoing legal process).

I will when I'm able to.

Short form: Mongo no like rules. You make Mongo follow rules. Mongo no follow rules. Mongo go bye-bye. Mongo sue.

[ComfySlippers]

Mongo no like rules. You make Mongo follow rules. Mongo no follow rules. Mongo go bye-bye. Mongo sue

I can't stop laughing at this.

[JimBenArm]

I will when I'm able to.

Short form: Mongo no like rules. You make Mongo follow rules. Mongo no follow rules. Mongo go bye-bye. Mongo sue.

Mongo sue? When Mongo doesn't believe in the legal system? When Mongo says it has no authority over him?

Stupidity. It's what's for breakfast.

[jargon buster]

Jim,you need to keep up,he will form his own de jure court to with a jury of freemen.
Its Ok though bstrong,should just put in a letter of conditional acceptance to attend court and a fee schedule of $1 billion dollars to take part in the process.

If mungo is a man of his word and true to the freeman philosophy he will have to agree or the case is quashed. ;)

[JimBenArm]

Jim,you need to keep up,he will form his own de jure court to with a jury of freemen.
Its Ok though bstrong,should just put in a letter of conditional acceptance to attend court and a fee schedule of $1 billion dollars to take part in the process.

If mungo is a man of his word and true to the freeman philosophy he will have to agree or the case is quashed. ;)

I try to keep up, but even light doesn't travel at the speed of stupid!

[therival58]

ok so I am clearing out some FOTL links from my favorites and this piece of info came into my lap.

This is from "the redemption manual", and cites a supreme court case, which believe it or not, actually contains the text which it cites.:p

it goes like this

America hasn't been a sovereign nation with lawful government in more than a century. Some even argue that there never have been lawful governments as "every man is independent of all laws, except those prescribed by nature. He is not bound by any institutions formed by, his fellowman without his consent." [CRUDEN v. NEALE, 2 N.C. 338 (1796) 2 S.E. 70.] And the key phrase there is WITHOUT HIS CONSENT. You must voluntarily give your consent to enter into contracts with these corporations.

Link to the case

http://montgomerymaryland.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/cruden-v-neale-2-n-c-338-1796-full-text.doc

Not saying it proves anything but could be a source where some of this FOTL rhetoric originated from

[Horatius]

Link to the case

http://montgomerymaryland.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/cruden-v-neale-2-n-c-338-1796-full-text.doc

Not saying it proves anything but could be a source where some of this FOTL rhetoric originated from



Quite possibly, and of course, true to form, they'd be ignoring this part which comes just before that:

When a change of government takes place from a monarchical to a republican government, the old form is dissolved.--Those who lived under it, and did not choose to become members of the new, had a right to refuse their allegiance to it, and to retire elsewhere. By being a part of the society subject to the old government, they had not entered into any engagement to become subject to any new form the majority might think proper to adopt. That the majority shall prevail is a rule posterior to the formation of government, and results from it. It is not a rule binding upon mankind in their natural state.

(emphasis mine)Which is, of course, exactly what we've been telling them all along!


Also, note the date: 1796. When they were still sorting out the legal ramifications of the US War of Independence. In fact, the majority of the decision seems to deal with just that sort of issue.


ETA: Oh, god, I just noticed exactly how carefully they quote mined this...

It is not a rule binding upon mankind in their natural state. There every man is independant of all laws, except those prescribed by nature.He is not bound by any institutions formed by his fellow-men without his consent.

Notice how they dropped the word "There", which clearly refers back to "mankind in their natural state"? The entire passage they quote refers only to people in their "natural state", which is expressly not being part of a larger society with recognized government.

[jargon buster]

another "success" for a freeman it appears.
The comment from Herald Holmes says it all
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=174756
A Merritt "freeman" will sit in jail through the Canada Day holiday weekend after he refused to acknowledge to the court his name.

Lance Thatcher was arrested in Merritt Wednesday. He is charged with breach of probation for failing to report to a probation officer as required.

In Kamloops court Thursday, Thatcher refused to acknowledge he was, in fact, Lance Thatcher.

"Are you referring to me?" he said.

"I know who you are, I've dealt with you before," said Judge Chris Cleaveley.

"Are you a mind reader, sir?" Thatcher continued.

"Stop. That's just nonsense," Cleaveley replied.

"What evidence do you have that I have that name?" Thatcher said.

Prosecutor Stephen Lawhead said the Crown opposes Thatcher's release on bail pending a trial of the charges, saying it is likely he will not appear for future court appearances and might commit other criminal offences.

The judge asked if Thatcher should be examined by psychiatric experts.

Lawhead said accused individuals must consent to such examinations. As well, there seems no basis beyond Thatcher's refusal to provide his name to conclude he is not mentally fit.

In the end, the authorities decided to give Thatcher the weekend to consider his position. He will be brought back to court Monday.

Thatcher's behaviour suggests he subscribes to beliefs touted by the Freemen Association of Canada, a group that says Canadians have been enslaved by government. They also purport to be governed by the "common law," not the Criminal Code or other Canadian legislation, which they describe as "admiralty law."

Freemen say they do not consent to be governed by such law, and believe they do not have to pay taxes or engage in many other forms of government bureaucracy, including registering vehicles or obtaining driver licences.

He has a past history with Merritt authorities and has refused to co-operate with law enforcement officials several times
http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/article/20110630/KAMLOOPS0101/110639946/merritt-freeman-to-spend-holiday-weekend-in-jail

herald wrote
http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060008154&postcount=9

This is proof that the man acting as judge is intimidating another, he could have just as easily thought about it at home..

More proof people acting in the legal system are crook's..

[jargon buster]

some more lunacy from Lance Thatcher
http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/article/20100209/KAMLOOPS0101/302099986/assessment-needed-judge-rules
Everyone is entitled to his beliefs, no matter how odd society might find them, a judge said Monday.

Despite that, provincial court Judge Stella Frame ordered Lance Edward Thatcher to be held in custody so his mental health can be assessed to determine if he is fit to stand trial.

The man was arrested last week in Merritt after he failed to attend court as required. He is charged with a series of incidents including ramming a police vehicle with his truck, uttering threats and dumping garbage on a person at the local dump.

When he was last arrested, Thatcher refused to allow officers to take his fingerprints or photograph and refused to identify himself, even though he was well known to police.

Thatcher told the court he is “a free living human being under no dominion but to any other than God.” As such, he cannot be held against his will in this kind of fashion.

He also told the court there is no such person as “Lance Edward Thatcher.”

“It’s my belief and understanding no one can have a true name. In the province of B.C., for anyone to have a name in capital letters, it belongs to a person, a fictional entity.

“I stand before you in flesh and blood, a man created by God. I’m not a fictional entity.

“You need my consent.”

Judge Frame said it is clear Thatcher’s beliefs are outside societal norms, but that is not the reason he is being detained for an assessment.

Frame said the man’s behaviour over the past 18 months raise legitimate concerns about his mental health.

As Thatcher refuses to say much, it is reasonable to order an assessment to determine if his refusals to comply with the state’s lawful requests are simply stubbornness or something more.

Thatcher will be held in custody pending an assessment at the Forensic Psychiatric Centre in the Lower Mainland. The report must be completed within 30 days

This is the reason that this freeman nonsense needs addressing in the courts and some heavy sentences handed out to the gurus who promote it.
It would appear that some serious criminals are now latching onto it and believing it to be their "get out of jail free card" (oh the irony)

Maybe its the reason Menard has gone away to live in the woods, he has twigged (sorry) that it is now getting serious and his tomfoolery is about to be clamped down on.

[BStrong]

a free living human being under no dominion but to any other than God

That is verbatim what my freemanfool told the (soon to be) arresting officer.

[jargon buster]

His God must have forsaken him to allow him to be arrested without due cause.

Lets hope that gets pointed out to him. ;)

[LordXenu]

a free living human being under no dominion but to any other than God


What happens in FMOTL woo when the arresting office (or the judge or whoever else) is an atheist?

[jargon buster]

Exactly the same outcome regardless :D

[Horatius]

some more lunacy from Lance Thatcher
http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/article/20100209/KAMLOOPS0101/302099986/assessment-needed-judge-rules

As Thatcher refuses to say much, it is reasonable to order an assessment to determine if his refusals to comply with the state’s lawful requests are simply stubbornness or something more.





I have to wonder; can the people doing the assessment come back with an official diagnosis of "He's just a dick"?

[Horatius]

What happens in FMOTL woo when the arresting office (or the judge or whoever else) is an atheist?



I've been asking similar questions for months now, and have never gotten an answer.

[ComfySlippers]

I have to wonder; can the people doing the assessment come back with an official diagnosis of "He's just a dick"?

They do... all the time. Unfortunately they have to use that pesky Maritime-Law Court Language :rolleyes:

I equate every FOTL/SOV 'success' story as being equal to the end of any ScoobyDoo episode.

"Darn, if it wasn't for you meddlin' Judges I'd have gotten away with it"

[jargon buster]

What they have always overlooked is that you can avoid a lot of societies costs by just being mentally incompetent.

Here is a quote from the UK government website concerning council tax
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/YourlocalcouncilandCouncilTax/CouncilTax/DG_10037422
Who can get Council Tax discounts?
Council Tax discount
Apply for a discount on Council Tax Apply for a discount on Council Tax Opens new window
A full Council Tax bill is based on at least two adults living in a home. Certain groups of people don't pay Council Tax. So, if you live with any of them, they won’t be counted as an adult for Council Tax purposes.
These people include:
children under 18
people on apprentice schemes
18 and 19-year-olds who are in full-time education
full-time college and university students
young people under 25 who receive funding from the Skills Funding Agency or Young People’s Learning Agency
nurses
foreign language assistants registered with the British Council
people who have a severe mental disability
live-in carers who look after someone who isn't their partner, spouse or child (up to 18 years)
diplomats

Maybe this will surface as the next option for the freemen

[ComfySlippers]

The mentally-challenged one would have to consent to being labelled mentally-challenged and also consent to accepting the notion that the label 'mentally-challenged' applies to them-self and not their fictional strawman.

ScoobyDoooobyDooooo!

[jargon buster]

The mentally-challenged one would have to consent to being labelled mentally-challenged and also consent to accepting the notion that the label 'mentally-challenged' applies to them-self and not their fictional strawman.


No,no no they would not be able to consent due to the fact that they are mentally challenged and it would have to be the "strawman" that was mental and not them as the bills belong to the "strawman" in fact the human would not have to admit to being mental as.......oh hang on , now I'm getting confused?????

[ComfySlippers]

oh hang on , now I'm getting confused?????

Should we call on Girlgye to help with that predicament?
...Always a very concise and top-notch explainer of the hoomun lingwij and matterz ov lor that one.

Her sig on DIF is still asking for donations to "Conman who can cure your Cancer by using your own piss even though all my patients still die from cancer and I'm basically a scam artist but know people will pay me big money for my bs and that gullible prats will believe me".

You couldn't make this cack up even if had a degree in ********tery.

Avast Mi Hearty's!
Let Our Maritime Courts sail thru the Freeman-Triangle, (Offices in Cananda and Bootle)!

[jargon buster]

Girlgye and I have a chequered past :rolleyes:
Im pretty sure she wont help on my behalf :D

[bikerdruid]

i like to 'check in' to these FOTL threads once in a while, just to keep abreast.
so....any cases of success yet, anywhere?

[ComfySlippers]

i like to 'check in' to these FOTL threads once in a while, just to keep abreast.
so....any cases of success yet, anywhere?

There are many successes.

All depends on your interpretation of the word success though.:rolleyes:

http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewforum.php?f=37 is, of course, written by paid shills, but does document court cases where FOTL-Waffle/Sovs get laughed at and banged up.

Being laughed at and banged up is a FOTL-Waffle success though.
It merely demonstrates how corrupt the Courts are, and how afraid they are of this mass group of keyboard-ninja-no-hopers.

[jargon buster]

World freeman society have posted a "great breakthrough"
http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=10283
Thought I would share, even though many would not agree to the Charter issue, but I think it is a great break through.

The Charter for Citizens is in full effect now, and has been given recognition.

Some may feel they do not want to be a citizen, but the bottom line is, many are Citizens, and this court decision is changing the way the people in the system view the Citizens.

Nothing the matter with being a Citizen, if you are treated with respect and allowed to live your life in peace.

http://www.canadiangardening.com/gardens/specialty-gardens/the-politics-of-gardening-bygone-bylaws/a/34885

Peace

PAdre

Its a success jim but not as they know it.

[bikerdruid]

World freeman society have posted a "great breakthrough"
http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=10283


Its a success jim but not as they know it.

really cool article, thanks.
but it has nothing to do with FOTL, as far as i can see.

[jargon buster]

Correct, but unfortunately they will cling to anything that they deem to be a success over "the man".

[jargon buster]

i like to 'check in' to these FOTL threads once in a while, just to keep abreast.
so....any cases of success yet, anywhere?

There will never be a success for freeman on the land unless they scrap Parliamentary Sovereignty, for that very reason alone a court CANNOT allow anyone to claim to be sovereign and be free of statutory legislation.

[bikerdruid]

There will never be a success for freeman on the land unless they scrap Parliamentary Sovereignty, for that very reason alone a court CANNOT allow anyone to claim to be sovereign and be free of statutory legislation.

thankyou.
when i check in and ask this question, i am pretty much sure of the answer.
i do however, always leave open the option of being amazed.:)

[ComfySlippers]

There will never be a success for freeman on the land unless they scrap Parliamentary Sovereignty, for that very reason alone a court CANNOT allow anyone to claim to be sovereign and be free of statutory legislation.

<DELETED>
The WFS needs to ask this:
"Where did our money go to? Stig's Allotment purchase?"

[jargon buster]

When I say "CANNOT" I hope no one confuses it with "will not".
A court simply does not have the authority to make that decision.

[Stacey Grove]

another "success" for a freeman it appears.


http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/article/20110630/KAMLOOPS0101/110639946/merritt-freeman-to-spend-holiday-weekend-in-jail


An update:
Lance of the family Thatcher has returned to court and has continued to refuse to identify himself. In fact he now wishes to be only addressed as "Peaceful" :D

Three more jail days and back to court on Thursday when they hope to have witnesses who can identify Peaceful.

http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/article/20110704/KAMLOOPS0101/110709975/man-gets-more-time-in-jail-for-refusing-to-give-name-in-court

A Merritt man who refuses to tell the court his name will spend three more nights in jail as the Crown brings in witnesses to prove his identity.

For a second time since his arrest on breach of probation charges last week, Lance Thatcher refused to acknowledge he is Lance Thatcher, telling the judge he prefers to be addressed as "Peaceful."

"I believe there has been a mistake. I'm here to help settle the mistake in honour," he told provincial court judge Sheri Donegan. "I trust I will not be led into dishonour."

"Are you Lance Edward Thatcher?" the judge asked the man directly.

"That's a mistake. Somebody feels I own (the name) or have a claim on it," he said. "I am here to help out to settle this matter in honour."

The judge temporarily adjourned the hearing to allow the Crown time to find a way to prove Thatcher's identity.

Prosecutor Stephen Lawhead returned a short while later and said he can call witnesses who know Thatcher, but not until later in the week. Thatcher's probation officer is expected to identify the man.

Thatcher told the court only he can identify himself.

"Nobody can identify me except me," he said.

"Are you prepared to identify yourself?" Donegan asked.

"I am me, yes. This is me. I am me," he answered.

The judge sent him on his way in the company of the courtroom sheriffs.

This is not the first time Thatcher has refused to identify himself to the courts, police officers or other authorities. A term of his most recent probation order requires him to give his proper name to police or probation officers when asked.

It's not known if Thatcher is practicing some form of "freeman" ideology. The Freeman Association of Canada encourages people to believe Canada's laws do not apply to them. May so-called freemen refuse to use their legal names, or alter the spelling of their names with the odd use of punctuation.

A different judge last week suggested Thatcher might be mentally ill, and asked if a psychiatric assessment might be required. The prosecutor said at this stage, there is no grounds to order such an assessment.

Thatcher will be back in court Thursday.

[Horatius]

The judge sent him on his way


VICTORY!!![/FreemanLoon]

[jargon buster]

The man was arrested last week in Merritt after he failed to attend court as required. He is charged with a series of incidents including ramming a police vehicle with his truck, uttering threats and dumping garbage on a person at the local dump.

For a second time since his arrest on breach of probation charges last week, Lance Thatcher refused to acknowledge he is Lance Thatcher, telling the judge he prefers to be addressed as "Peaceful."

:D

[fromdownunder]

An update:
Lance of the family Thatcher has returned to court and has continued to refuse to identify himself. In fact he now wishes to be only addressed as "Peaceful" :D


Sounds like he has been listening to John Lennon too much.

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.

,,,,

I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob g'goo goo g'joob.
Goo goo g'joob g'goo goo g'joob g'goo... (etc.)

All we are saying is give peace a chance

Norm

[BaaBaa]

I discovered an interesting variation of the X of the family Y thing:

" Moving-World DECEPTION!! - The Grandaddy of all False-Science Government Funding* Frauds!

- True-Science website created by: Bernard of the bloodline-heritage Brauer, a spiritual man created by God
and joint-heir with Christ of the Kingdom of God.

(Be careful of using the word Family: A name that comes from the Roman root word: Familae, definition: A household, of SLAVES)"

https://sites.google.com/site/earthdeception/

Kookadookery abounds here....beware, beware!

[Hans]

I discovered an interesting variation of the X of the family Y thing:

" Moving-World DECEPTION!! -

https://sites.google.com/site/earthdeception/

Kookadookery abounds here....beware, beware!

Grand ashpile on the top of the mountain comedic platinum

a favourite:

Pharisee/Kabbalic Big Bang Evolutionary Paradigm's extraterrestrial evolutionism mythology

[BaaBaa]

https://sites.google.com/site/earthdeception/the-name-game

"The ‘Crown’ is the administrative corporation of the Pontiff of Rome owned City of London, the financial, legal and professional standards capitol of/for the Vatican. The City of London is a square-mile area within Greater London, England, and is an independent city-state."

Ow, my head.

[Grassy Knowlington]

https://sites.google.com/site/earthdeception/the-name-game

"The ‘Crown’ is the administrative corporation of the Pontiff of Rome owned City of London, the financial, legal and professional standards capitol of/for the Vatican. The City of London is a square-mile area within Greater London, England, and is an independent city-state."

Ow, my head.

Perhaps that explains the 'congestion charge' that has to be paid for a vehicle entering this approximate zone - the money is going to the Pope!

&, to add insult, I thought our majesty QE2 was in charge!

Was Henry VIII in fact engaged in sacrificial rituals with regard to his 6 wives and not just hankering after some new tottie?

[The Don]

Wait till they find out about the Liberty of the Savoy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precinct_of_the_Savoy)

[jargon buster]

another loon on Ickes
http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060029231&postcount=7
For instance, my wife and I just witnessed the first truly Free Man to be Borne into our family in generations. We did it at a hospital. We filed a Borne plan (if anyone wants to read it, PM me). And guess what? We did not fingerprint/footprint, no DNA, no blood drawn, no genetic testing, no Vitamin K, no eye drops, and NO BIRTH RECORD SIGNATURES. The staff were very divided as to how they felt about it and we became rather famous. But most of the nurses (especially this one from Canada...what is it about Canadians and freedom?) fully supported what we were doing. Our stance was simple: we do not fully comprehend the nature of the relationship that is established with the State, upon completion of a Live Birth Record/SS-5 and as such we cannot enter into such a relationship until we do properly comprehend the terms. The administrator responsible for filing BCs with the State tried very hard to get us to provide some kind of information and signatures for a BC but we held our ground and walked out without doing any of that. In the end all she could do was provide a simple sheet stating that there was a "birth" of "unknown" to my wife, with no signatures (therefore not binding lawfully or legally), and with our refusal to consent noted and on record.

Hopefully social services will be alerted and the child's welfare is taken into consideration.

In my opinion any parent who believes their child belongs to the state if they register its birth is automatically unsuitable to have him/her.

[Horatius]

Wait till they find out about the Liberty of the Savoy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precinct_of_the_Savoy)



As a consequence, someone being pursued for a debt in London could reside in the Savoy without fear of arrest by people acting under the King's authority.


My god, yes, it sounds perfect!


:D

[jargon buster]

News of Liberty of the savoy is leaked to a freeman

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o318/Jagdengel/homeless.jpg

[fromdownunder]

Wait till they find out about the Liberty of the Savoy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precinct_of_the_Savoy)

Sanctuary! Sanctuary!

Norm

[tsig]

we do not fully comprehend the nature of the relationship that is established with the State, upon completion of a Live Birth Record/SS-5 and as such we cannot enter into such a relationship until we do properly comprehend the terms

another loon on Ickes
http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060029231&postcount=7


Hopefully social services will be alerted and the child's welfare is taken into consideration.

In my opinion any parent who believes their child belongs to the state if they register its birth is automatically unsuitable to have him/her.

You rarely see the argument from ignorance so clearly stated.

[solzhenitsyn]

The plot thickens over on Ickes:



Rumplestilkin
Many do walk free, it would look pretty ridiculous if everyone was convicted now wouldn't it, they allow a set quota to go free to keep up the pretence of justice.

Yes of course they do.
Its like all the driving instructors getting together at the start of testing day and deciding who passes and who fails.

Its the luck of the draw

This is amazing stuff! Come on, which one of you is posting as kaisersozey? Please stop. You're killing me.

[JoeB]

Their denial of responsibility is nearly pathological.

[my ill will]

Holy! I can't believe this thread is still going. I just checked an old e-mail account I haven't used in a while and got an update from the thread subscription. I completely forgot about this.

Well... I wrote all of this in high school. Oddly enough I'm studying economics and programming now, and needless to say I've grown up a little bit and realized the absurdity of my old beliefs. Sorry if I came across as a wacko or an ass. To tell you the truth, I believed in this stuff because on the inside of this group, it made sense. But on the outside, the holes and the flaws became apparent. I chose to ignore a larger base of research that proved the very contrary.

Again, sorry if I came across as a wacko.

[jargon buster]

Most people do realise its muppetry after a while and come back down to earth, some occasionally go all the way with it and end up losing their homes and liberty.
Thats just natural selection in action.

Welcome back to reality my ill will.

[my ill will]

Most people do realise its muppetry after a while and come back down to earth, some occasionally go all the way with it and end up losing their homes and liberty.
Thats just natural selection in action.

Welcome back to reality my ill will.

I feel like I just had an intervention. Thanks, buddy.

[Stacey Grove]

Holy! I can't believe this thread is still going. I just checked an old e-mail account I haven't used in a while and got an update from the thread subscription. I completely forgot about this.

Well... I wrote all of this in high school. Oddly enough I'm studying economics and programming now, and needless to say I've grown up a little bit and realized the absurdity of my old beliefs. Sorry if I came across as a wacko or an ass. To tell you the truth, I believed in this stuff because on the inside of this group, it made sense. But on the outside, the holes and the flaws became apparent. I chose to ignore a larger base of research that proved the very contrary.

Again, sorry if I came across as a wacko.

Respect to you for admitting you made a mistake.:)

At last, we now have an actual Freeman Success Story.

[tsig]

Holy! I can't believe this thread is still going. I just checked an old e-mail account I haven't used in a while and got an update from the thread subscription. I completely forgot about this.

Well... I wrote all of this in high school. Oddly enough I'm studying economics and programming now, and needless to say I've grown up a little bit and realized the absurdity of my old beliefs. Sorry if I came across as a wacko or an ass. To tell you the truth, I believed in this stuff because on the inside of this group, it made sense. But on the outside, the holes and the flaws became apparent. I chose to ignore a larger base of research that proved the very contrary.

Again, sorry if I came across as a wacko.

Just read some of your old posts.

Nothing harder than admit you've been wrong, so kudos.

[Scoot Meevo]

Holy! I can't believe this thread is still going. I just checked an old e-mail account I haven't used in a while and got an update from the thread subscription. I completely forgot about this.

Well... I wrote all of this in high school. Oddly enough I'm studying economics and programming now, and needless to say I've grown up a little bit and realized the absurdity of my old beliefs. Sorry if I came across as a wacko or an ass. To tell you the truth, I believed in this stuff because on the inside of this group, it made sense. But on the outside, the holes and the flaws became apparent. I chose to ignore a larger base of research that proved the very contrary.

Again, sorry if I came across as a wacko.

Good bounce-back.

And at least you were at high school, a friend of mine is hitting 30 and he's falling for this guff now.

[my ill will]

Well, I don't want to make excuses. I was ignorant. I'm glad I taught myself to see an issue from all sides before painting a picture of it.

[cocana]

Very well done sir

[Horatius]

Well, I don't want to make excuses. I was ignorant. I'm glad I taught myself to see an issue from all sides before painting a picture of it.



Good on you. Oh, and check this out:


http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=7385792#post7385792

[ComfySlippers]

Well, I don't want to make excuses. I was ignorant. I'm glad I taught myself to see an issue from all sides before painting a picture of it.

Always good to see someone hang up their woo-hat :)

[Tricky]

Holy! I can't believe this thread is still going. I just checked an old e-mail account I haven't used in a while and got an update from the thread subscription. I completely forgot about this.

Well... I wrote all of this in high school. Oddly enough I'm studying economics and programming now, and needless to say I've grown up a little bit and realized the absurdity of my old beliefs. Sorry if I came across as a wacko or an ass. To tell you the truth, I believed in this stuff because on the inside of this group, it made sense. But on the outside, the holes and the flaws became apparent. I chose to ignore a larger base of research that proved the very contrary.

Again, sorry if I came across as a wacko.
Way to go!:clap:

(Man, doncha just love higher education?)

[Boot2TheHead]

Not sure where to post this; the old "failures" thread hasn't been active in months so I didn't want to revive it for this.

Anyway, one more for the pile:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0811/1224302232246.html

[Hans]

The judge turned his attempt at being slippery (...I'm not that man...) back on him:

Having heard repeated denials that he was the man named, the judge said he had no choice but to remand Mr Sludds in custody because there was some confusion about his true identity.

“I can’t accept a bail bond from someone whose signature can’t be verified,” he said, remanding Mr Sludds to Cloverhill prison.



Sweet

[Horatius]

Not sure where to post this; the old "failures" thread hasn't been active in months so I didn't want to revive it for this.

Anyway, one more for the pile:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0811/1224302232246.html



Declaring that he was before the court “under duress”, Bobby Oliver Sludds (29), Ballagh Cove, Enniscorthy, Co Wexford, said Judge David Anderson had no jurisdiction to deal with the case unless he first produced his oath.

“Where did you read that?” asked the judge.

“The Constitution. It says that a judge must offer up his oath when requested and I am asking you, do you have your oath?” said Mr Sludds, before picking up a copy of the Constitution and quoting from it at length.


Hmmm....yet another FoTLer who can't seem to understand what he reads....


Assuming this is the Irish constitution he's referring to....

5.
1° Every person appointed a judge under this Constitution shall make and subscribe the following declaration:

"In the presence of Almighty God I, , do solemnly and sincerely promise and declare that I will duly and faithfully and to the best of my knowledge and power execute the office of Chief Justice (or as the case may be) without fear or favour, affection or ill-will towards any man, and that I will uphold the Constitution and the laws. May God direct and sustain me."

2° This declaration shall be made and subscribed by the Chief Justice in the presence of the President, and by each of the other judges of the Supreme Court, the judges of the High Court and the judges of every other Court in the presence of the Chief Justice or the senior available judge of the Supreme Court in open court.

3° The declaration shall be made and subscribed by every judge before entering upon his duties as such judge, and in any case not later than ten days after the date of his appointment or such later date as may be determined by the President.

4° Any judge who declines or neglects to make such declaration as aforesaid shall be deemed to have vacated his office.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Ireland#External_links


Nothing there about "producing your oath", only that it must be sworn in front of "the Chief Justice or the senior available judge of the Supreme Court in open court." Unless he expects them to have to do that every day, his objection is nonsensical.


And, as an interesting aside, this document doesn't even use the word "oath", it seems to refer exclusively to "declarations". So even that's a fail!

[Paul]

“You can’t do this. This isn’t over. You can expect a bill,” Mr Sludds shouted as he was led away.Says it all really.

[catsmate1]

The judge turned his attempt at being slippery (...I'm not that man...) back on him:

Sweet
That was not a good idea on Freeman Sludds's part; Judge Anderson is not noted for his tolerance of idiocy in his court; he threatened to call the head of the Health Service Executive into his court last year to explain why a teenager in the care of the HSE was involved in criminal activity.

[tsig]

The judge turned his attempt at being slippery (...I'm not that man...) back on him:



Sweet

Now this is denial:

“You can’t do this. This isn’t over. You can expect a bill,” Mr Sludds shouted as he was led away.


Telling them that they can't do it while they are busy doing it is some really first class denial of reality.

[solzhenitsyn]

Now this is denial:

“You can’t do this. This isn’t over. You can expect a bill,” Mr Sludds shouted as he was led away.


Telling them that they can't do it while they are busy doing it is some really first class denial of reality.

That sums up the entire sovereign/freeman/lawful rebellion "movement" with almost haiku efficiency.

[jargon buster]

the freeman "movement" is now at a standstill.
It may take another few months for some more delusional pothead freeloaders to stumble across one of the websites to re-ignite it, but for now its over.
I signed up to freeman rebels (Ray St Clairs site) and was asked for £12 a year subs to access the site (give Ray St Clair my bank details?? Yeh right)
When I questioned the "Donation" I was PMd by someone on the site inviting me to his site, I signed up and have now convinced him its all nonsense and hes closing it down (it only took a day :D)

The freeman movement is self debunking as long as you ask the right questions to the loons.

[100]

That sums up the entire sovereign/freeman/lawful rebellion "movement" with almost haiku efficiency.

You cannot do this
Yourself can expect a bill
This isn't over


Now it is in haiku form (although a bit poorly worded at that).

No one has ever won in one of these, have they?

[timhau]

No one has ever won in one of these, have they?

Yes they have. They occasionally win free lodging at a correctional facility for infractions that, for the rest of the world, result in a caution or at most a fine.

[akama1]

Not sure where to post this; the old "failures" thread hasn't been active in months so I didn't want to revive it for this.

Anyway, one more for the pile:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0811/1224302232246.html
does warm my black black heart to read this. hopefully they cover the finally too.

[tsig]

Yes they have. They occasionally win free lodging at a correctional facility for infractions that, for the rest of the world, result in a caution or at most a fine.

In America it wouldn't necessarily be free, some jurisdictions charge you for jail time.

[patchbunny]

You cannot do this
Yourself can expect a bill
This isn't over


Now it is in haiku form (although a bit poorly worded at that).

No one has ever won in one of these, have they?

The free man you see
Cannot be held by this court.
Hey don't taze me bro.

[tsig]

The free man you see
Cannot be held by this court.
Hey don't taze me bro.

I am innocent

You cannot hang me


snap

[TSR]

No, that is not right
I think you may mean sah-nape
And I blame Lisa.

[timhau]

In America it wouldn't necessarily be free, some jurisdictions charge you for jail time.

Is that 'you' as in 'your strawman' or 'your flesh-and-blood person'? And good luck collecting that fee.

[tsig]

Is that 'you' as in 'your strawman' or 'your flesh-and-blood person'? And good luck collecting that fee.

Cops aren't much on philosophy so they'll lock up your f&b body and let the straw fend for itself.

[Toke]

I am innocent

You cannot hang me


snap

Nominated. :D

[8den]

I searched the thread and couldn't see this article.

CORNWALL - A Cornwall man who has joined a growing social movement that doesn’t acknowledge government statutes or laws will not escape a warrant issued for his arrest, law enforcement officials said.
The 58-year-old man, who goes only by the name Thomas, was charged with the possession of illegal cigarettes after a search by the RCMP in September 2009.
But calling himself a “Freeman on the Land,” Thomas said he is not bound by legal obligations or restrictions that most people recognize, because he has not given consent to be governed.
Thomas does not acknowledge his last name, which he refers to as a “corporate” name assigned by the government. He does not recognize his birth certificate, which he considers a bank note that assigns a monetary value to citizens. He drives without insurance or a licence, saying he doesn’t recognize any legal obligation to do so.
And when allegedly caught smuggling cigarettes in 2009, Thomas said he wasn’t doing anything wrong.
“To me, it’s not hurting anyone, except that the government wants money from you,” he said.
In anticipation of his court date on Aug. 4, Thomas sent a letter to the judge informing them he would not be attending to answer to the charges against him.
“Section 15 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that all men are equal under the law there, no one man has authority over another man unless authority has knowingly, willingly and intentionally been granted,” the letter said. “I did not grant or consent to anyone having authority over me and did not contact with the court, giving them permission to continue.”
Thomas said he considers the Government of Canada to be “de facto,” which includes the courts.
“Section 15 of the Criminal Code of Canada states that no one is obligated to obey any law of any de facto government, therefor I, as a natural person, am not obligated to obey and or appear (in court) on August 4, 2011.”
Missing his court date, a bench warrant has been issued for his arrest.
Thomas is one of about 160 Freeman on the Land that are known to police in Ontario, according to Ontario Provincial Police Const. Pete Robertson.
As a relatively new social movement, Freemen on the Land are gaining momentum around the world, and publicize their defiance in YouTube videos and websites on the Internet.
“The movement is getting bigger and bigger all the time,” Thomas said. “...To give us back our freedom because we are all slaves.”
But despite the laws and statutes the Freemen cite to build their case, Robertson said all people are considered equal under the law.
“These people are looking at a philosophy and lifestyle that disassociates them,” he said. “When we come across a person like that we are going to deal with them with the laws that are mandated. We will treat them like everyone else.”
Robertson said police have been monitoring the movement, and said Freemen on the Land have been identified in cities across Ontario, including Guelph, Owen Sound, Toronto, Ottawa, London and the Niagara region.
Because they don’t believe laws apply to them, Robertson said there have been instances of Freemen on the Land possessing firearms, explosives and illegal substances.
Bev Roy, manager of the provincial offences court in Cornwall, gave a presentation to United Counties of Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry councillors about the movement in June.
Roy said they are working to educate court staff about Freeman on the Land, and are working with court security to develop an in-house protocol about acceptable behaviour during court proceedings.
Roy said she wants her staff to understand what the Freeman on the Land are trying to achieve.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2011/08/14/freeman-insists-laws-dont-apply

Bev, wherever you are you are a incredibly patient human being.

[timhau]

Bev Roy, manager of the provincial offences court in Cornwall, gave a presentation to United Counties of Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry councillors about the movement in June.

I first read this as "United Counties of Stormfront, Dundas and Glengarry".

[Horatius]

I searched the thread and couldn't see this article.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2011/08/14/freeman-insists-laws-dont-apply

Bev, wherever you are you are a incredibly patient human being.



And hey, Menard shows up in the comments section!

[8den]

And hey, Menard shows up in the comments section!


Indeed

"He drives without insurance or a licence, saying he doesn’t recognize any legal obligation to do so."
No insurance. What about a moral obligation.



A moral obligation to engage in GAMBLING?

[jargon buster]

And hey, Menard shows up in the comments section!

He wont be there for long, someone called jimbobwalton has his number :D

[Horatius]

He wont be there for long, someone called jimbobwalton has his number :D



There was also one guy there who was saying the FoTLERS are entirely peaceful.

Show him these:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/07/21/3238352/man-in-sovereign-citizen-group.html

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/06/sovereign_citizen_opens_fire_on_store_because_it_r .php?ref=fpb


and see how he reacts!

[Horatius]

And there's some classic FoTLer logic on that thread:


Does he or the movement acknowledge Money, the welfare cheque that they're probably getting or our free healthcare?

Canada no longer has a Rule of Law. Our laws have been twisted and interpreted to suit the crime and the perpetrator. Individuals are able to pick and choose the laws they wish to obey. As for those social services, well, those are entitlements. One is always entitled to one's entitlements.


Yep, the laws are purely optional, but oh, welfare? THAT we're ENTITLED to!

[jsfisher]

And there's some classic FoTLer logic on that thread:


Yep, the laws are purely optional, but oh, welfare? THAT we're ENTITLED to!


Please, oh, please tell me Libbe Smith was being sarcastic.

[tsig]

Nominated. :D

:thanks:

[timhau]

And there's some classic FoTLer logic on that thread:





Yep, the laws are purely optional, but oh, welfare? THAT we're ENTITLED to!

Do you want to nominate that for Stundies, or should I do it?

[jargon buster]

Freeman on the land logic at its best,
A guy turns on Ickes saying how he failed in court and a freeman asks him to post proof of his failure, its strange that FOTLers never ask people for proof when someone claims it works? :rolleyes:
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=179880

hmm you never ever posted here and have but 1 post...
you cracked under the first little presure
and your buddy iq145(ya right) is telling you this is all snake oil
how about some docs that the bailif left with you...you have nothing to lose now so post them up...sanatize them first as you are clearly afraid
i don't believe a word you typed and believe your only purpose is to cry wolf
who exactly did you talk to about fmotl and what sites did you post on?
you can take this as a learning exp or go back to sleep
do you want to lay down and die or educate yourself and move on?
i still think its bs please prove me wrong
if you had a understanding of fmotl you would have been on here getting help
long before the big bad bailif came by
so post it and let this forum know were and what you were told or go cry in your beer with the rest
sounds harsh eh...you should have taken the other pill

[Horatius]

Do you want to nominate that for Stundies, or should I do it?



Go for it!

[jargon buster]

This just made me spit coffee down my nose
escapee Hi y'all, Firstly, Thanks for all your support of Norman. Secondly, apologies for this late reply - have been ill (bronchitis). As expected we had a great turn out on the day (supporters from far and wide) came along to voice their protest against this treasonous and tryannical actions against one of our brothers. Unfortunately, I had to get back to my shop at 11:15am. However, those who could stay continued the protest and later moved to Leeds city centre (War Memorial) to bring the news to the people of Leeds. My raw footage and pics of the Leeds Prison protest (2011-08-13) can be found at: http://www.rceuk.co.uk/2011-08-13-norman-scarth/IMAG0001.AVI

Down with the government and all its treasonous actions, but I dont want to miss out on any passing trade while I'm here:D

Its taken from the homepage of Ray St Clairs Freedomrebels site, not sure if the link will work, you may have to be a member.
http://www.freedomrebels.co.uk/

[Paul]

My raw footage and pics of the Leeds Prison protest
A 19 second clip of the massed ranks of the freedomrebels, all 18 of them, not actually doing anything.

[Hans]

A 19 second clip of the massed ranks of the freedomrebels, all 18 of them, not actually doing anything.

Kinda of like unsuccessful pseudo Chartists

[Paul]

Oops, I was wrong, later they are brutally oppressed by the corrupt system who let them stand around like sheep at a who can annoy the wolf the least contest.

The evil cabal stand no chance against these determined freedom fighters.

[jargon buster]

maybe rebel leader will arrange the next protest for a wednesday afternoon at 13.00 (its half day closing) :D

[tsig]

maybe rebel leader will arrange the next protest for a wednesday afternoon at 13.00 (its half day closing) :D

The revolution will be scheduled for non business hours.:boggled:

[timhau]

The revolution will be scheduled for non business hours.:boggled:

...unless it's raining.

[jargon buster]

here they are organising the next meet up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YawagQ6lLrA

[Myron Proudfoot]

A fitting tombstone for many of the "Freemen."

http://images.smosh-prod.alloy.com/sites/default/files/bloguploads/tomb-stone-1.jpg

[Hans]

A fitting tombstone for many of the "Freemen."

http://images.smosh-prod.alloy.com/sites/default/files/bloguploads/tomb-stone-1.jpg

Doesn't seem to work

[Myron Proudfoot]

Doesn't seem to work

Humm, worked when I tried it. But it's a tombstone that reads "Ben died doing what he loved most. Getting into tense standoffs with police."

[abaddon]

Humm, worked when I tried it. But it's a tombstone that reads "Ben died doing what he loved most. Getting into tense standoffs with police."
works for me

[8den]

Australian Freeman Mahatma Coat writes

I was at a friends house, we borrowed another friends R28 Skyline, He drove to the Pub, He was WAAAAAAAY Too pissed to drive back so I decided to drive, anyway we were moochin out along the Western Freeway on our way back to Toowong when I decided to open up the Skyline to see what she could do (3.0L turbo) So as we were hummin along at about 180KPH I undertook a blue Comodore, turned out it was a 6.0 V8 with Flashing lights in the grille being drien by 2 QLD Detectives, Lights came on I Floored it a chase ensued, I tried to ditch them I had them in the corners but as soon as we came upon a straight they were right on me, so Eventually I Pulled over at Toowong cemetary where I was charged with driving an unregisered uninsured unroadworthy vehicle at almost 4 times the Speedlimit.

thats one of the things they wanted to Ban me For

I didnt go to court for that, the referred me to SPER who I decided to Ignore based on the Freeman principle that I hadnt contracted with them, thats when they came after me HARD, the sneaky confiscation of my licence outlined above came later, I NEVER Gave SPER one cent and THEY never succesfully suspended my licence, I accepted a one month ban at one stage ( I was already scheduled to go to PNG for 3 months at the time) but that was a Court appointed Ban.

the Freeman principal comes into it when I dealt with SPER, They had no juridstiction over me So I was not obliged in any way to deal with them regardless of the threats lies and intimidation.

A Freeman MUST accept the Validity of the Courts When he gets there, but is not obliged to Contract with any other bodies

thats the point of the whole FMOL concept

When you do get to Court THATS where you Contract.

any of the Contracts I've had with the courts have had favourable outcomes for Me personaly. And continues

What harm did I cause?? And continues


People sdeem to be wilfully misunderstanding my point, I gave the details of the situation so that ye could understand the whole story behind it, what most of ye seem to bew misunderstanding is my intent, I have no issue with the courts, my issue is with the organisations that spring up like SPER whose SOLE PURPOSE is raising revenue, if the Police officer who caught me had determined that I DID pose a serious risk to society in general and that my actions had harmed someone else then I should have been arrested, instead I was sent off on my merry way with a fistful of fines. it wasnt until I decided not to pay those fines that it became a serious crime with threats of Jail and the suspension of my licence, but all the while SPER made it clear in the letters they sent me that if I paid them it wouldn be a serious crime anymore After about two pages of a bollocking he ran behind a Mod's skirt and this was put on the thread

Right, from this point on, any posts about Mahatma's actions will be deleted and the user infracted or banned. This discussion is supposed to be about how Mahatma used the Freeman defence in his court case. I only asked him to describe what happened to give a sense of scale as to how serious the offences were.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056176197&page=44

[jargon buster]

New freemen to destroy, thanks for the link :D

[100]

What harm did I cause??
Dunno, maybe it was that you were driving a
vehicle at almost 4 times the Speedlimit.

[Toke]

I think the libertard and freeman position is that speed limits are for sissies and that they are too responsible people to need them.

[Mojo]

I think the libertard and freeman position is that speed limits are for sissies and that they are too responsible people to need them.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotive_conjugation

In this case something along the lines of "I am a responsible person; you are reckless; he should be locked up".

[timhau]

I'm too lazy to do a search, but wasn't there at least one Freeloader who declared that if he accidentally killed someone's child while driving drunk, he'd place himself under a lifelong contract of servitude to the kid's parents?

That's a really big consolation. You're missing a child, but now you've got an idiot to order around in the house. :hit:

[Mojo]

I'm too lazy to do a search, but wasn't there at least one Freeloader who declared that if he accidentally killed someone's child while driving drunk, he'd place himself under a lifelong contract of servitude to the kid's parents?


Not seen that one. They generally just seem to assume that FOTLers simply wouldn't drive if it was unsafe to do so (see here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5072122#post5072122), for example: "If exercising their common law right to travel, they have an obligation to act in a manner that is articulately reasonable, highly prudent, and extraordinarily courteous.").

Actually, that looks more like their usual response to any queries about driving without insurance - it would be OK because they would pay for any damage out of their own pocket.

[timhau]

it would be OK because they would pay for any damage out of their own pocket.

Message to anyone who believes that: Meet me on the eastern shore of Lower Manhattan, I have a lucrative business proposal for you.

[Toke]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotive_conjugation

In this case something along the lines of "I am a responsible person; you are reckless; he should be locked up".
Thank you, something like that. :)

[remirol]

Message to anyone who believes that: Meet me on the eastern shore of Lower Manhattan, I have a lucrative business proposal for you.

Also: stone, blood, etc.

When someone's got a $100k medical bill waiting for them, it's going to be a damn shame when it turns out that Mister Freeman can only pay $50 a month because he's an unemployed lazeabout.

This is usually where Mister Freeman commences to ranting about medical procedures' cost rather than facing up to: You're a broke SOB who can't pay your own bills, you shouldn't be allowed to run up charges for others either.

[jargon buster]

bet you cant get to 1 minute in without turning it off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aduh1enuurA&feature=player_embedded

it's no wonder these guys never get anywhere.

[Mojo]

bet you cant get to 1 minute in without turning it off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aduh1enuurA&feature=player_embedded


I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

[Toke]

bet you cant get to 1 minute in without turning it off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aduh1enuurA&feature=player_embedded

it's no wonder these guys never get anywhere.

I got to 1:10 before loosing patience with the blather.

[Horatius]

1:53. You guys are wimps!

[jargon buster]

My patience with freemen is shot.

[jsfisher]

3:08, and no alcohol was involved. I do want to kill Romans, now, though.

[BaaBaa]

Crazy eyebrows are crazy. Also, I thought his head would implode while trying to say "Antonine".

[Hans]

3:04 silly guy oh they have magic eh! LOL

I wonder how the 'Roman cult' got control of China.....

[beren]

1:53.

public speaking is not his strong point. Assuming he has one.

[jargon buster]

Someone seems to like him on Ickes
http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060152251&postcount=5
For some reason this guy has has just come out of nowhere (to me anyway) and now I keep finding people posting about him. I've seen some of his videos and this guy is extremely knowledgeable and well researched. He's an absolute genius and I recommend him to everybody.
Edit: and I agree, he puts people will Wilcock and Maxwell to shame with the information he provides

Maybe we are being a little harsh :rolleyes:

[akama1]

3:20, then he spoke about popes putting spells on edicts. then I stopped. He does sound familier thou, I think i've heard his crap somewhere else

[X]

10:42
Pity me.

[Ladewig]

There are a dozen edits in the first few minutes.
How bad was the original talk such that an edited version looks like this?

5:30.

[Mulefa]

My intelligent, sane, and evidently very gullible friend started telling me about the FOTL stuff about a month ago. At first I was skeptical but didn't bother investigating it. Well, now he's acting on some of the ideas, so I've been reading about it. Needless to say, it certainly seems like poo. We've debated a few times recently, but he's not been swayed. He's begun the process of trying to eliminate his student loans with the money that he created in the federal reserve upon his birth.

I've been worried, but at this point I suppose the only thing left to do is wait for his attempts to fail. He did say he'd admit it's hogwash if it doesn't work, so he's not one of those folks who still swear by it when they're behind bars.

[Pantaz]

... He's begun the process of trying to eliminate his student loans with the money that he created in the federal reserve upon his birth.
... He did say he'd admit it's hogwash if it doesn't work, so he's not one of those folks who still swear by it when they're behind bars.
Spend some time at the Quatloos forums (http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/index.php). They primarily cover tax fraud issues, but they have a great section on "Sovereign Citizens". Many of the members are attorneys, so instead of linking to YouTube videos, they post the actual legal documents (such as, court opinions, judgments, and criminal sentencings) disproving the nonsense.

Your friend may succeed in delaying payments for some time, but that will simply be followed by legal proceedings. If he dives further into it and tries to quit paying income tax, he runs a serious risk of jail time.

[Toke]

I've been worried, but at this point I suppose the only thing left to do is wait for his attempts to fail. He did say he'd admit it's hogwash if it doesn't work, so he's not one of those folks who still swear by it when they're behind bars.

That is still a little late for realisation to set in.
Could you sell him the idea of two different realities, one where it works and one where he risk jail time?
And until he is absolutely sure which one he lives in there shall be no flipping the judge the bird.

[100]

5:30.

0:00

Video removed.

[akama1]

0:00

video removed.

conspiracy!

[Border Reiver]

And in the US Lousiana uses a combination of Common Law and The Napoleonic Code.


And the Province of Quebec uses the Code Civil (Civil Code en anglais) which is based on the French Civil Code pre 1759 for everything but criminal law.

[Hans]

Ah but has Menard tried his magic words at the courts of piepowder?

[Biscuit]

Another freeman bites the dust after setting up the private bank of denny ray hardin (http://gawker.com/5840953/the-private-bank-of-denny-ray-hardin-wasnt-a-real-bank)

[Robrob]

Another freeman bites the dust after setting up the private bank of denny ray hardin (http://gawker.com/5840953/the-private-bank-of-denny-ray-hardin-wasnt-a-real-bank)

Shouldn't it have been "The Private Bank of Denny of the Family Hardin?" :D

Anyone who invested in this guy's "financial institution" deserves what they got! :eye-poppi
http://fastcache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2011/09/private_bank.jpg

[Mulefa]

Has anyone heard of Curt Flowers? My not-yet-freeman on the land friend recommended him to me, since we've been debating about his attempts to get out of paying his student loans using FMOTL methods.

I watched about 15 minutes of a video of Mr. Flowers's. He's all over youtube. He seems pretty concerned with establishing his own credibility. Odd that his way of doing this are defining words correctly, so whatever he says after is probably true too! I mean, he knows what "fallacy" means, why would he lie about the rest of it?

[jargon buster]

Hes a mate of Ben Lowrey, enough said.
http://creditcarddebtsquad.com/curt-flowers-ben-lowrey-introduction-to-credit-cards-loans-executivetrusteetraining-com/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=curt-flowers-ben-lowrey-introduction-to-credit-cards-loans-executivetrusteetraining-com

[Mulefa]

I'm not really familiar with Ben Lowrey, though he sure seems like a con man.

[FreemanMenard]

He 'seems' like a conman. And that is sufficient here to label him as one. And of course it is proper and just and logical that all who associate with him, be found guilty by association, even though Ben's guilt has yet to be established.

[Mulefa]

I entirely admit I'm judging him with little evidence, but it's not like he, or you, has provided any evidence that any of this stuff works. Ever. The evidence I have seen shows that when tried, these ideas don't hold up in court. I have also seen how much you and Ben charge for your expertise (semantic philosophical arguments...again with no evidence). Shame on you.

[zooterkin]

He 'seems' like a conman. And that is sufficient here to label him as one. And of course it is proper and just and logical that all who associate with him, be found guilty by association, even though Ben's guilt has yet to be established.

No, you're quite right, they should not automatically be judged by the company they keep. Of course, if they hang out with people who are known to be conmen, and don't take any trouble to distance themselves from them, then they shouldn't be surprised if it happens. However, if they produce videos with 'advice' that's based on nonsense, like that credit video ("the signature is where money comes from"), then that is also going to count against them too, especially if they are seeking financial gain from it. It is also dangerous if they are giving advice that people will follow which will get those people into trouble if they follow it.

[Mulefa]

It is also dangerous if they are giving advice that people will follow which will get those people into trouble if they follow it.

Exactly. My friend is pursuing these ideas in order to get out of his student loans. He has already sent a document asking for proof that he owes them money. What he's looking for is accounting paperwork showing where the money he received for tuition came from. By his logic, they must show a loss in order for him to actually owe them money, since his signature on the promissory note (which they sent him in response to his demands) created the money in the first place. He's quite sure these ideas have merit and he will be successful. It's very frustrating.

[timhau]

Another freeman bites the dust after setting up the private bank of denny ray hardin (http://gawker.com/5840953/the-private-bank-of-denny-ray-hardin-wasnt-a-real-bank)

The Private Bank of Denny Ray Hardin, run by a former crack addict who looks like, well, a crack addict, sold $100 million worth of promissory notes said crackhead made on his own computer?

They say that there's a sucker born every minute, but I suspect the rate is higher.

[FreemanMenard]

I entirely admit I'm judging him with little evidence, but it's not like he, or you, has provided any evidence that any of this stuff works. Ever. The evidence I have seen shows that when tried, these ideas don't hold up in court. I have also seen how much you and Ben charge for your expertise (semantic philosophical arguments...again with no evidence). Shame on you.

You mean giving my stuff away completely freely, and accepting donations AFTER people already have it and who donate because they feel they have found value? Is that what you mean?

And do you work for free or do you get paid for your efforts? Just so we all know...

[FreemanMenard]

Exactly. My friend is pursuing these ideas in order to get out of his student loans. He has already sent a document asking for proof that he owes them money. What he's looking for is accounting paperwork showing where the money he received for tuition came from. By his logic, they must show a loss in order for him to actually owe them money, since his signature on the promissory note (which they sent him in response to his demands) created the money in the first place. He's quite sure these ideas have merit and he will be successful. It's very frustrating.

Well, considering how many have had success in discharging their student loan debts, and how many people have been magically forgiven their debts, and considering that there is no function of law that allows the government to arbitrarily forgive one persons debts and not do it for everyone, why is it so frustrating for you?

Are you aware that CANADA signed a Covenant admitting the people of Canada have a right to free post secondary education? Are you aware that 100's of millions of loans have been forgiven and discharged?

[Hans]

You mean giving my stuff away completely freely, and accepting donations AFTER people already have it and who donate because they feel they have found value? Is that what you mean?

And do you work for free or do you get paid for your efforts? Just so we all know...

They should pay you AFTER what you told them to do is demonstrated to work

oh...wait that wouldn't go well for you now would it? LOL

[FreemanMenard]

No, you're quite right, they should not automatically be judged by the company they keep. Of course, if they hang out with people who are known to be conmen, and don't take any trouble to distance themselves from them, then they shouldn't be surprised if it happens. However, if they produce videos with 'advice' that's based on nonsense, like that credit video ("the signature is where money comes from"), then that is also going to count against them too, especially if they are seeking financial gain from it. It is also dangerous if they are giving advice that people will follow which will get those people into trouble if they follow it.

Known to be conmen without any evidence that would stand up in court right? So how do you know who is and is not a conman if you do not demand evidence, but merely blindly accept the accusations of those with hidden agendas?

Have you personally seen any evidence that would stand up in court that I, or Ben is a conman, as is so often spouted on this forum?

Thought not. But that won't stop people here from claiming it is true, and spreading the lies will it?

[D'rok]

Well, considering how many have had success in discharging their student loan debts,Evidence? and how many people have been magically forgiven their debts,Evidence? and considering that there is no function of law that allows the government to arbitrarily forgive one persons debts and not do it for everyone, why is it so frustrating for you?Evidence?

Are you aware that CANADA signed a Covenant admitting the people of Canada have a right to free post secondary education? Are you aware that 100's of millions of loans have been forgiven and discharged?Evidence?

This isn't you again trying to take personal credit for the British Columbia government's student loan forgiveness program, is it?

[FreemanMenard]

They should pay you AFTER what you told them to do is demonstrated to work

oh...wait that wouldn't go well for you now would it? LOL

Who are you to tell them when they should pay? Or even if they should?

And so you know, my last donation was rather sizable, and was gifted to me because it did in fact work, and a mortgage worth a couple hundred $k was successfully discharged.

So where does that leave you now?

[D'rok]

Known to be conmen without any evidence that would stand up in court right? So how do you know who is and is not a conman if you do not demand evidence, but merely blindly accept the accusations of those with hidden agendas?

Have you personally seen any evidence that would stand up in court that I, or Ben is a conman, as is so often spouted on this forum?

Thought not. But that won't stop people here from claiming it is true, and spreading the lies will it?
You really make this too easy.

[Hans]

Have you personally seen any evidence that would stand up in court that I, or Ben is a conman, as is so often spouted on this forum?

Have you sold a product that doesn't work? Yes

CONMAN

[D'rok]

Who are you to tell them when they should pay? Or even if they should?

And so you know, my last donation was rather sizable, and was gifted to me because it did in fact work, and a mortgage worth a couple hundred $k was successfully discharged.

So where does that leave you now?That leaves him without evidence.

[Hans]

Who are you to tell them when they should pay? Or even if they should?

And so you know, my last donation was rather sizable, and was gifted to me because it did in fact work, and a mortgage worth a couple hundred $k was successfully discharged.

So where does that leave you now?

Laughing at you lies - shows us the evidence that proves what you said - remember we know you're a liar.

[FreemanMenard]

Laughing at you lies - shows us the evidence that proves what you said - remember we know you're a liar.

And you know it how? You have repeated it enough that you now believe it.

[FreemanMenard]

Have you sold a product that doesn't work? Yes

CONMAN

By that logic, Bill Gates is a conman.
And so is any lawyer who ever gave advice to someone which did not work, and had that someone land in jail, right?

Come on try harder!

:D

[FreemanMenard]

Laughing at you lies - shows us the evidence that proves what you said - remember we know you're a liar.

And your evidence that you can personally govern me without my consent and not break the law, or that you can hire and agent to do so is where?

:D

The government is scrambling to find it, maybe you can help them!

[Hans]

And you know it how? You have repeated it enough that you now believe it.

Easy enough, you got any evidence of this latest claim?

Or all your other claims?

[Hans]

And your evidence that you can personally govern me without my consent and not break the law, or that you can hire and agent to do so is where?

:D

The government is scrambling to find it, maybe you can help them!

<yawn>

Got any evidence your conman games work?

Where's that letter you were talking about earlier?

[D'rok]

You mean giving my stuff away completely freely, and accepting donations AFTER people already have it and who donate because they feel they have found value? Is that what you mean?How many donate after they get out of jail?

Oh, and please stop lying about how you give stuff away:

http://shop.worldfreemansociety.org/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=13&products_id=15&zenid=76c3d16d089873e795fdea712771f404

[cocana]

Robby Do,

Got the evidence that you are immune from all statutory law, except those laws that you agree with? A verifiable court order or letter from the Canadian government should do the trick.

No? Thought not

Been telling people that this is what you have achieved? Yes
Been receiving money on the back of it? Yes
Been giving other bogus 'legal' advice and receiving money from that? Yes

There is only one fitting description in those circumstances.

Once again, evidence please. Alternatively you are welcome to continue digging your own hole.

[FreemanMenard]

<yawn>

Got any evidence your conman games work?

Where's that letter you were talking about earlier?

Nice strawman. What letter?
Oh yea, post reported.

Any evidence that I am a conman? You know something that would stand up in court?

[FreemanMenard]

<yawn>

Got any evidence your conman games work?

Where's that letter you were talking about earlier?

I take it you do not have evidence of your ability to govern another without their consent, and that said lack of evidence is proof that you can't, and that you agree with me.

Thanks!

:D

[Hans]

Nice strawman. What letter?
Oh yea, post reported.

Any evidence that I am a conman? You know something that would stand up in court?

Now that is funny

You go anything that would show that what you sell will stand up in court?

[Hans]

I take it you do not have evidence of your ability to govern another without their consent, and that said lack of evidence is proof that you can't, and that you agree with me.

Thanks!

:D

Reality seems to say your wrong

Show us the court cases that say your reality works

[FreemanMenard]

Reality seems to say your wrong

Show us the court cases that say your reality works

So you need court cases to define your reality?

Wow....

[Hans]

So you need court cases to define your reality?

Wow....

NO but your conman blather really needs a court to agree with it - you think? LOL

[solzhenitsyn]

So you need court cases to define your reality?

Wow....

Legal reality? Yes, without question we need court cases to define that. Where on earth else do you think law comes from?

Good grief.

[Border Reiver]

Well, considering how many have had success in discharging their student loan debts, and how many people have been magically forgiven their debts, and considering that there is no function of law that allows the government to arbitrarily forgive one persons debts and not do it for everyone, why is it so frustrating for you?

Are you aware that CANADA signed a Covenant admitting the people of Canada have a right to free post secondary education? Are you aware that 100's of millions of loans have been forgiven and discharged?

Financial Administration Act - section 24.1 Forgiveness of Debts covers how the gubbmint can say you don't owe money anymore - and it doesn't say that forgiving one means you forgive all.

Cite for this covenant? A name will do.

[jargon buster]

It looks like the cops are getting a bit fed up with FMOTLers
http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=11046
So the officer comes up to me and is like what the hell are you doing. I responded by saying I'm smoking my own kind of weed. He said ahh marijuana jumped onto me before I had a chance to explain who I was resulting in two bloody wounds (pics will be posted later today). I told them to relax and quit assaulting me. Then proceeded to put me in handcuffs saying stop resisting arresting I said I couldn't put my hands around my back because ur leg was on one of my arms. Then asks for identification and I responded I am a undercase steve of the wiggles family. They laughed and said ahh your one of those freeman on the land nutjobs that don't belove in law. I said that is not true I believe in the Common Law as stated in your constitution. They kept asking for my Canadian identity, which I responded with I cannot because I am not part of your society. Ok what was your date of birth I responded by saying that I wasn't conscience to know when I was born. They then tried to intimidate me by insulting me and the arresting officer even threated to punch me so hard in my face and break all of my teeth. I asked for all 3 for their credentials which they refused to give

[Piggy]

These are the real Freemen on the Land (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Somali_children_waiting.JPEG).

They don't have to deal with those pesky cops and courts and regulations and legal documents.

Think about it.

[Piggy]

Hey, Freemen! Get off my taxdollar funded roads! Build your own!

[Hans]

The death of such movements occur if one (or more) of the following occur:

1. People realize they've been bamboolzed and the movement collapses internally
2. They become large enough to be notice by government - which cracks down
3. They become large enought to be notice by the people at large - who go after them because their exsistence annoys them (like using the roads they pay for for free) and sic departments on them

[Robrob]

I cannot because I am not part of your society.
Doesn't matter, you are in the jurisdictional limits of the city, county, state or nation (depending on the officers' jurisdiction) and violation of the local laws.

Why do these nuts not understand the simple fact, even if you were a Native American of a tribe that made marijuana legal, marijuana is not legal outside the tribal lands.

You are bound by the laws of the jurisdiction you are in, not of where you claim to be from.

[ComfySlippers]

He 'seems' like a conman. And that is sufficient here to label him as one. And of course it is proper and just and logical that all who associate with him, be found guilty by association, even though Ben's guilt has yet to be established.

Ben Lowrey has admitted he wants to sit on his arse and take money off people via the internet in exchange for nothing of value.

You lie, sell lies, then pretend you didnt sell them when they are seen as lies.
How's Lance doing?
It doesn't need proving in a court of law that you are conman Rob. It's blindingly obvious to everyone but the gullible.

[solzhenitsyn]

^ And at least Lowrey, misguided though he is, seems to actually believe in his own nonsense and indeed actually provides proof that he is out there practicing what he preaches (to the extent that he's had his holiday property in Turkey foreclosed on, he is being pursued by HMTQ for tens of thousands of pounds in tax arrears, and he has managed to be put in custody for several days over a bloody traffic ticket.)

[ComfySlippers]

How's Lance doing?


He is out of prison from yesterday (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7610381&postcount=2785)

[solzhenitsyn]

^ Its a bit schizophrenic to answer your own question like this, no? ;)

[ComfySlippers]

:o :p

Just making sure everyone, including $800-Menard, was aware that Lance is, for now, out of prison.

[solzhenitsyn]

^ That's good news. Speaking of FMOTL victims, has anyone heard an update from poor Girlgye? Last we heard it seemed she was put in custody but that was months ago.

[ComfySlippers]

Girlgye: Aug 2nd 2011...

dcNZxErADX0


ETA: Someone with the same name was in court on Sept 16 in Liverpool

[solzhenitsyn]

^ Thanks. I thought that perhaps she had been put into psychiatric care or something. I guess not.

Anyway, was bored this afternoon so decided to creep the world freeman society forum for a few minutes. About two minutes in I found this gem from meta, one of the more obnoxious fmotl advocate posters over there:

Gentlemen,

I'm considering relocating if I have no remedy with my Utilities. I'm willing to leave everything here, except the computer and printer, which I will give to someone who assists in my travels, and I can take care of my expenses of food, medicine and rent through monthly Social Security Disability using any ATM, worldwide. I'd like to go to NZ and live on a Freeman Vally Farm and stay away from all commerce until I pass on. I'm really tired of this war on us. I assume that New Zealand operates on 50 Hz rather than Western 60 Hz so my computer and printer would be useless there.

Meta

Sigh. Who are these people? It truly is frightening.

[Paul]

ETA: Someone with the same name was in court on Sept 16 in LiverpoolShe's also playing the all this for little old me victim card again: http://postnuclear.org/merseyside-woman-alleges-police-brutality-days-after-making-%E2%80%9Cmartial-law%E2%80%9D-video/

[ComfySlippers]

She's also playing the all this for little old me victim card again: http://postnuclear.org/merseyside-woman-alleges-police-brutality-days-after-making-%E2%80%9Cmartial-law%E2%80%9D-video/

:eek: Not only are there "birth bonds" but there are now also "prosperity bonds" where tptb bet on how successful an individual will be in life!

You couldn't make up such a rubbish story if you tried... oh wait... she just did.

Wonder why GuruRob doesn't know there is yet another super sekrit bond to convince the gullible about.

[dafydd]

If we grant ourselves the right to protect ourselves.... why do you think we wouldn't grant ourselves the right to travel on our own roads??


Including the right to travel the roads without being endangered by FOTL nutters with no insurance or driving license.