The Genies Of Iraq.

[Lavie Enrose]

Iraq unleashed
The Globe And Mail
By_MARGARET WENTE
Saturday, November 15, 2003 - Page F1 (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20031115/FCCOV15//?query=author%3Ccontains%3Emargaret+wente)

Even educated Iraqis believe in genies. The American invasion has let them all out -- the trauma, superstition and corruption due to decades of tyranny. As pressure mounts for the U.S. to leave, MARGARET WENTE in Baghdad meets Iraqis who say that, psychologically, their country is nowhere near ready for self-rule

In freeing Iraq, the Americans have unleashed a swirl of genies -- good and evil, mischievous and malicious, and utterly unpredictable. Their power over these genies is very limited, and no one can say which ones will prevail.

The genies aren't just a fanciful metaphor. In Iraq, they're a central part of people's belief system. Most people, even educated ones, believe that they exist. There are benign genies and bad ones, Muslim and Christian ones. There are genies who can help to recover stolen property or lift curses.

Mr. Hussein, himself a strong believer in the occult, encouraged all kinds of soothsaying and superstition. Many people here believe that he has been able to escape assassination because he wears a magic stone around his neck.

The Americans, needless to say, didn't know about the genies.

[Ed]

I you had been diligently reading my Fatawas you would have known all about this. More importantly, you would have known the proper way to deal with these pesky critters.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Belief in the Djinn (Jinni, Genies) is a pre-Islamic Arabian superstition that Muhammad kept when he introduced monotheism. There are said to be both Muslims and Kaffirs (infidels) among the Djinn. The ones that bother people are the Kaffirs.

In Islamic demonology there are no fallen angels because angels have no free will.

Iblis, the Shaitan (Satan), is the leader of the Kaffir Djinn.

Sample fatwa:
How can a person conceal himself from the jinn when in the toilet? (http://63.175.194.25/index.php?cs=prn&ln=eng&QR=26816&dgn=4&dgn=2)

Question:

Are we alone when in the bathroom? Can there be Jinn in with us? If so, what steps do we need to take to protect our modesty?.

Click the link for the answer. Yes they are serious.

[Corey]

It's sort of meaningless to say that educated people believe in something supernatural, when it's part of their education and their government encourages belief in superstitions and the occult. Just a thought.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Corey
It's sort of meaningless to say that educated people believe in something supernatural, when it's part of their education and their government encourages belief in superstitions and the occult. Just a thought.

It's meaningful because it tells you something about their culture.

This wasn't Saddam's idea, or peculiarly Iraqi.
This was always part of Islam, and an Arabian folk belief before Islam.

[Corey]

That's what I meant. I meant it was meaningless to use the term "educated" as indicating they would normally be beyond such superstition and it was so real they couldn't deny it with all their "education". The word education only has meaning relative to the educator and what they're teaching. So saying "even educated Iraqis" doesn't have much bearing on the subject when you reveal Iraqis are educated to believe in Djinn.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Ed
I you had been diligently reading my Fatawas you would have known all about this. More importantly, you would have known the proper way to deal with these pesky critters.

I just spray them with Raid............works every time...........

[Yahweh]

Americans do happen to believe very strongly in Djinn, we just happen to call them by a different name...

[Corey]

Telemarketers?

I've never seen one, but they plague me constantly...especially when I'm on the toilet.

[Aussie Thinker]

Mr. Hussein, himself a strong believer in the occult, encouraged all kinds of soothsaying and superstition. Many people here believe that he has been able to escape assassination because he wears a magic stone around his neck.

Lets see how he fares with a magic piece of rope around his neck !

BTW Keeping superstition alive is why most of these countries are stuffed.. a good reason to squash the woo woo’s wherever we see them !

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Corey
That's what I meant. I meant it was meaningless to use the term "educated" as indicating they would normally be beyond such superstition and it was so real they couldn't deny it with all their "education". The word education only has meaning relative to the educator and what they're teaching. So saying "even educated Iraqis" doesn't have much bearing on the subject when you reveal Iraqis are educated to believe in Djinn.

Not so. They might still be well educated in mathematics, as indeed much of our mathematics came to Europe by the Islamic world.

The University of Fez (Morocco) still excels in mathemetics. That is Fibonacci's alma mater, class of the year 1271 (by the Christian reckoning).

From a European (and therefore American, Australian, etc) historical perspective, geometry is Greek, but our arithmetic, algebra, and number theory originate in the Islamic world.

None of these mathematics truly originated in the Islamic world, but that's where we got them from. From India and China really, but the Muslims learned them well, expanded on them, taught and transmitted them.

And even the Greek stuff was preserved by the Muslims while Europeans ignored it.

Religion, including Islam, does not equal stupid.

The Djinn are an essential part of Islam. Not mere folklore, regardless of origin.

Muhammed emulated the legalism of the Jews. Nevertheless, the nonsense about the Djinn grabbing your tochis (arse) while "covering one's feet" (sh*tting), is from his own people.

None of this is incompatible with acquiring a knowledge of nuclear physics.

BOOM!

[Aussie Thinker]

Mind you as a kid Barbara Eden as “genie” used to blow my young mind.. and SHE was from Bagdad !

So they can’t all be bad.

Abdul..

The Arabs led the world in science until edicts from the Mullahs effectively shut down any “new” learning for 500 years. They let the West who started to relax their religious controls romp past them in enlightened learning.

So religion DID stifle the Arabs.

[WildCat]

Because the shayaateen (devils) are evil, they like to frequent dirty places. Allaah says

Hence the shayaateen frequent the places where humans relieve themselves, and they want to do them harm.
This sounds silly, but is it any sillier than this? (http://www.virtualchurch.org/jk_angel.htm)
Angels are created, spiritual beings endowed with immortality and attendant upon God. They may be described as heavenly guardians, warriers, ministering spirits or messengers. Traditionally there are nine orders of spiritual beings, as seraphims, cherubim, thrones, dominions, virtures, powers, principalities, archangels and angels.

Religion is funny.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
The Arabs led the world in science until edicts from the Mullahs effectively shut down any “new” learning for 500 years. They let the West who started to relax their religious controls romp past them in enlightened learning.

So religion DID stifle the Arabs.

Don't say Arabs, say Muslims. By that time they were already not synonymous.

Otherwise, what you say is unquestionably true.

I'll go further. The flowering (as distinguished from the mere expansion) of Islamic civilization was not the period immediately following Muhammad. It was a few hundred years later (a bit after the conquest of Persia) when the Caliphs became more tolerant and were willing to assimilate anyones' learning.

I was in this era that Omar Khayyam wrote the Rubiyat. This is now banned in Iran. This is as if England now banned Shakespeare.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by WildCat

This sounds silly, but is it any sillier than this? (http://www.virtualchurch.org/jk_angel.htm)


Religion is funny.

OK we don't all have the same sense of humor.

In the "Old Testament" there's legalism aplenty and a lot of brutality. Though in historical context the brutal (?) Jews seem to have been the bleeding heart liberals of the time and place.

Plenty of death penalties for stuff like blasphemy and sodomy for sure. But no human sacrifice, no worse a punishment for crimes against persons than an eye for an eye.

Property crimes were treated as what we would now call civil torts with fines and indemnities.

This is to my way of thinking more enlightened even than the USA millenia later (today) when burglars are sent to rape camp ("correctional facilities").

Compare this to the Koran's dictum of amputation for property crimes. Or the British penalty of hanging for pickpocketing as existed circa 1800. Or castration for counterfeiting as Henry VIII decreed.

It's a mixed bag as to who is more evil.

Nevetheless, worrying about the Djinn grabbing you by the tush while you're in the crapper is funny!

Well to me, anyway. :p :D

[Corey]

Ok...um...to repeat myself again...I'm not saying the Iraqis' education is meaningless or worthless. What I was saying...ok, stop and read this because you keep countering this point and it's not really an argument, just a statement...it's meaningless to (ready?) say something like "even educated Iraqis believe in Djinn" if it's a core part of the culture. It's like saying "even educated Americans say "bless you" when someone sneezes", if it's something that is a core, traditional part of their culture and it's taught, by family or by school or anyone else, how educated they are doesn't have much bearing on whether or not they're going to believe in it. I'm sure there are plenty of people in Iraq who don't believe in them, just as not everyone in America is a fundamentalist christians and believes in angels (though a lot do, and we're not nearly as engrained with those beliefs as those in the fundamentalist parts of the Arab world are). That's all I'm saying. Not making an assessment on the quality or value of their education...I'm just saying that the journalist is using that phrase I keep bringing up to make it seem like an educated Iraqi wouldn't believe in a Djinn normally, but they do, so they must exist because even the educated ones believe. When the reality is, as you've pointed out Abdul, it's such a core traditional belief that it really has nothing to do with how well educated they are.

(edited to correct typo)