I think the Jersey Devil could be real...at least as real as Bigfoot

[xblade]

So, I'm watching a Monsterquest episode about the Jersey Devil, and I have to say, the evidence is compelling: Hundreds of eyewitness reports from credible witnesses dating back hundreds of years, newspaper reports, footprints, etc.

I think it's time we accept that the Jersey Devil is just as likely to be real as bigfoot.

[LTC8K6]

Okay, as long as you don't bring up Mothman...

[xblade]

Mothman IS real. Didn't you see the Mothman Chronicles? I thought everyone knew that already.

[BenBurch]

See "The Last Broadcast" ;)

[LTC8K6]

Mothman gives me the willies and the heebie jeebies...

[xblade]

See "The Last Broadcast" ;)

Looks interesting. Is it shot from a first person perspective like Blair Witch and Cloverfield? Man, I hate movies like that.

[XLDS03]

I'm watching the Jersey Devil episode now. Cue scary digderidoo music!

[JcR]

The only Jersey Devil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Stevens) I ever believed in is retired now.

[streamlet]

Watching it now. :popcorn1

I can't believe they're taking this much time with the poor "montauk monster." I know the one picture makes it look very strange, but there's a second picture that makes it clear it's a decomposed dog.

Monsterquest is good fun, but I'd enjoy it more if they'd quit with polygraphing witnesses. Not lying =/= saw a monster. Not lying = honestly believes he saw a monster. It's not possible for a polygraph to provide actual evidence of monsters, so... pointless!

[Drewbot]

I can PROVE the New Jersey Devil is NOT REAL.

Exhibit A: New Jersey Devils Hockey Team

Exhibit B: Any Lawyer

Exhibit C: Lack of Lawsuit filed on behalf of THE NJ Devil against the NJ Devils Hockey Club, for compensation in regards to the use of THE NJ Devil as it's logo, monicker, and identity, for promotions not limited to, but including, TSHIRTS, MUGS, POSTERS, and OTHER MERCHANDISE bearing the name "New Jersey Devil"

Therefore: Barring any lawsuit, there must be no NJ Devil, or a Lawyer would have found him to sue.

PS STREAMLET- IT'S NOT ABOUT ACTUALLY FINDING THE MONSTERS, IT'S ABOUT THE QUEST FOR THE MONSTERS.

PSS JCR- SCOTT STEVEN'S HIT ON LINDROS. WORD!

[SphereGuy]

PS STREAMLET- IT'S NOT ABOUT ACTUALLY FINDING THE MONSTERS, IT'S ABOUT THE QUEST FOR THE MONSTERS.


It's about the quest for money!

[Psi Baba]

Even worse than MonsterQuest is the Sci-Fi Channel's Destination Truth. I had it with that when they were in Iceland looking for elves. Elves! They were stomping around the brush in the dark spooking themselves, going, "something moved in the bushes over there!" No, it couldn't be a rabbit or a fox, it's got to be elves. :xundecide

[bruto]

"At least as real as bigfoot...." How real is that? When did reality become relative? Is there a sliding scale - Bigfoot 67 percent real?

[Hitch]

So, I'm watching a Monsterquest episode about the Jersey Devil, and I have to say, the evidence is compelling: Hundreds of eyewitness reports from credible witnesses dating back hundreds of years, newspaper reports, footprints, etc.

I think it's time we accept that the Jersey Devil is just as likely to be real as bigfoot.

I agree completely. Which doesn't mean what many people might think.

[godless dave]

I think it's time we accept that the Jersey Devil is just as likely to be real as bigfoot.

I definitely accept that. They are both equally likely.

[BenBurch]

Looks interesting. Is it shot from a first person perspective like Blair Witch and Cloverfield? Man, I hate movies like that.

It is thought by many that Blair Witch was a rip-off of it.

[BenBurch]

... I had it with that when they were in Iceland looking for elves. ...

And somehow, they missed Björk. :boggled:

[desertyeti]

Looks interesting. Is it shot from a first person perspective like Blair Witch and Cloverfield? Man, I hate movies like that.

Painful, bad, aweful, terrible movie with no moster or surpirse or value.





But...uh...yeah...watch it...

[ugot2bekidding]

Painful, bad, aweful, terrible movie with no moster or surpirse or value.





But...uh...yeah...watch it...

I liked it. The ending was definitely a surprise. Also, I believe it was the first ever film shot (and shown) completely digitally.

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Some of my thoughts about that particular episode of "Monster Quest":

-I was pleasantly surprised that they didn't trot out the "The real Jersey Devil is Bigfoot and the winged reports are all hooey" line spouted by some Bigfoot proponents. Speaking of which (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_devil#Origins):

Outdoorsman and author Tom Brown Jr spent several seasons living in the wilderness of the Pine Barrens. He recounts occasions when terrified hikers mistook him for the Jersey Devil, after he covered his whole body with mud to repel mosquitoes.

-However, I wasn't too surprised over the show not mentioning Ivan Sanderson's discovery of fake hooved feet used to stomp tracks. If I remember correctly, Sanderson believed that the original Jersey Devil scare was all a hoax intended to scare people away/lower the prices of property in the area.

-The metallic sounds reported by the woman who claimed to have seen the Jersey Devil/had it on her roof could have been the talons of a bird. As those of you who watched this episode can guess, I support the misidentified owl explanation.

-Speaking of that report, I was quite pleased when it was noted that wildlife officials couldn't identify the tracks since the photographs of them were at a bad angle and since the snow melting could have distorted the tracks. Without that, it's easy to see some viewers concluding that they must be the result of an unknown animal.

-That was some awesome head-on footage of an attacking owl. I think watching it would make the owl-based explanations for the Flatwoods monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatwoods_monster) and the Hopkinsville Goblins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly-Hopkinsville_encounter) much easier for people to understand.

-I should note that owls are not the only bird that could be responsible for Jersey Devil sightings. The sandhill crane (also responsible for Mothman sightings) has many features that match up to descriptions of the Jersey Devil: the coloration, long legs, huge wings, "red" eyes, long neck, its eerie cry, its feathers can resemble fur when seen in the right conditions, etc. Also, their behavior (detailed in this wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandhill_Crane) and my notes on Mothman (http://www.cryptozoology.com/forum/topic_view_thread.php?tid=46&pid=506610)) would explain some of the reports regarding the devil pacing back and forth and it attacking crops, people, and animals (see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_devil) for a quick selection). If the comment here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sandhill_Crane#Don.27t_Feed_These_Birds.21) is correct, then we also have a logical explanation for a sandhill crane attacking a trolley (like the Jersey Devil was reported to do).

-Some might comment that the Jersey Devil's long tail, hooves, horns, forelegs, and horselike head would rule out any bird. I would mostly disagree. Here's why:

1. As shown in this picture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sandhill_Crane_with_baby.jpg), sandhill cranes can have a dark black "stripe" on their tail feathers. This feature, especially when combined with long tail feathers, could given the impression of a tail (especially by someone who is startled or expecting a tailed monster). Similarly, their feet being held in a certain manner while flying can also further the illusion of a tail, as shown in these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sandhill_cranes.jpg) two (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sanhill_tgo.jpg) pictures.

2. When seen at certain distances and in certain viewing conditions, the feet of a bird can seem vaguely like hooves. I certainly hope these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sandhill_Cranes_at_Hontoon_Island.jpg) three (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Florida_Sandhill_Cranes_grazing_with_young.jp g) images (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grus_canadensis2.jpg) are enough to convince you.

3. I admit that seeing horns on a sandhill crane would be a bit of a stretch, barring head feathers ruffled in a certain way or someone attaching fake horns to one. That last example isn't entirely unlikely. You see, two enterprising gentlemen once painted stripes on a kangaroo with green paint. After adding some bronze wings and horns, they released the kangaroo and later caught "the Jersey Devil." They then proceeded to exhibit it in a sideshow-style manner and charged people money to see it. You can read more about it here (http://www.strangemag.com/jerseydevil1.html), seeing as how "Monster Quest" never discussed it.

However, there is another bird with features like the sandhill crane that could appear to have horns due to certain feathers: the great blue heron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Blue_Heron). As a quick Google search will reveal, both the great blue heron and sandhill crane can be found in New Jersey. Also, great blue herons can be really freaky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ardea_herodias_at_the_nest_11.jpg)-looking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Great_Blue_Heron_(Ardea_herodias)_in_flight.j pg). As for sandhill cranes, I can point out that not all depictions of the Jersey Devil have horns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nj_devil_notgreyscale.png) (unless those ear-looking things are supposed to be horns)

4. As you can see in this picture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Heron-Everglades-20070401.jpg), some of the feathers on a great blue heron's chest can jut out like spikes. Not only would one misinterpret them as being hair, be it's also possible to see them as being the upper limbs of a creature.

Oh, and they seem to be able to appear/survive during the winter. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ardea_herodias,_Feb.,_Ontario.jpg)

As for the horselike head, well, you'll have to wait until my comments about the statue shown towards the end of the program.

-It's a shame that they wasted time during this program talking about the so-called
"Montauk Monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montauk_monster)." It would have been much smarter to have included it in a program about strange carcasses. Also, I don't agree with their assertion that the "monster" is a decaying dog. Not only did the skull they used for comparison have some obvious differences, but Dr. Darren Naish made an excellent case for it being a raccoon (http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2008/08/the_montauk_monster.php). Also, I should look into the claim that a scientist who once ruled out raccoons has since retracted his belief that the "monster" is a dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Montauk_Monster#Raccoon).

-Wow, I'm surprised they brought up the hammer-headed bat. I thought that idea was limited to a select few cryptozoology forums. That said, I think the best-case scenario for the bat being the Jersey Devil would be only a few sightings before the bat (either brought here by accident or released on purpose as part of a hoax similar to the kangaroo one mentioned earlier) before it died in the winter.

According to the wikipedia entry on hammer-headed bats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammer-headed_bat#Interactions_with_humans):

"It has also been observed to attack live chickens. This observation was reported once and cannot be considered a regular occurrence."

Sadly, the second part of that statement wasn't noted in the program.

-I can't say that the presence of children during the "flush out" attempt convinces me of the alleged danger posed by the Jersey Devil.

-Oh crap, not polygraphs again. At least they mentioned that someone passing a polygraph test can mean that they only believe what they thought they saw is true.

-I loved that Jersey Devil statue and how the woman was surprised that it looked exactly like what she saw. Of course it is, he designed it using the description that she gave him

I think that you can make out how a beak was misinterpreted as a horselike snout on the statue, which would support the misidentified owl theory noted earlier in the program. This is also demonstrated by Hitch's current avatar.

My cable provider offers a service called "Paranormal TV OnDemand," which included several segments from "American Monsters" regarding the Jersey Devil. One of those segments notes that residents of the Pine Barrens used to be referred to as "pinies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piney_(Pine_Barrens_Resident))" and were considered by some to be inbred fools. According to the Wikipedia entry on the Jersey Devil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_devil#Origins):

"Pineys were further demonized after two early twentieth century eugenics studies depicted them as congenital idiots and criminals. It is easy to imagine early tales of terrible monsters arising from a combination of sightings of genuine animals such as bears, the activities of pineys, and fear of the barrens."

Oh, and "American Monsters" has the worst special effects I've ever seen on a cryptozoology-related show. Although I rag on the show often, I'll give MQ credit for having good looking non-CGI effects.

And just for fun, let's pick apart some Jersey Devil stuff that may or may not have appeared on either of those two programs using Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_devil#Encounters):

Reportedly in 1778, Commodore Stephen Decatur visited the Hanover Iron Works in the Barrens to test cannonballs at a firing range, where he allegedly witnessed a strange, pale white creature winging overhead. Using cannon fire, Decatur purportedly punctured the wing membrane of the creature, which continued flying – apparently unfazed – to the amazement of onlookers. Dating on this encounter is incorrect, as Decatur was not born until 1779.

Bolding by me.

Two Gloucester hunters tracked the creature's perplexing trail for twenty miles. The trail appeared to "jump" fences and squeeze under eight-inch gaps. Similar trails were reported in several other towns.

This reminds me of the supposed "Devil's Footprints (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil%27s_Footprints)" of Devon, England.

In his book Real-life X Files: Investigating the Paranormal, Joe Nickell makes a good case for the tracks being a series of unrelated trackways that appear to be similar due to melting snow (http://books.google.com/books?id=wWAP2cs0lB0C&pg=PA10&dq=joe+nickell&ie=ISO-8859-1&sig=TLFT12a8B_m5I2nKGdDD12zvYaI). That portion of the book seems to be a reprinting of this article (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_n1_v20/ai_17849133/pg_1). Also, I believe that mikedash.com has an in-depth article about the identity of the "Devil's Footprints."

[xblade]

-It's a shame that they wasted time during this program talking about the so-called "Montauk Monster."

Yeah, didn't really get that part. It's like they threw that in there just so they would have something to show people.

[xblade]

"At least as real as bigfoot...." How real is that? When did reality become relative? Is there a sliding scale - Bigfoot 67 percent real?

Dude, it's bigfoot and the Jersey Devil....it's whatever you want it to be.

[hodgy]

Even worse than MonsterQuest is the Sci-Fi Channel's Destination Truth. I had it with that when they were in Iceland looking for elves. Elves! They were stomping around the brush in the dark spooking themselves, going, "something moved in the bushes over there!" No, it couldn't be a rabbit or a fox, it's got to be elves. :xundecide

Strange that they would go to Iceland to find elves - there are plenty up my back garden. They are elusive little buggers though - I have found that in order to see them I have to enter their 'world'. Typically this involves peering into a holllowed oak tree, waiting patiently by a fairy (fungus) circle or (recommended) simply drinking 8 cans ofcarlsberg special brew.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Some of my thoughts about that particular episode of "Monster Quest":
{snip a lot of well done linking and sourcing}

Oh yeah? What about aaaaalllll those eyewitnesses Mr. Smartypants?

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

{snip a lot of well done linking and sourcing}

Thanks!

Oh yeah? What about aaaaalllll those eyewitnesses Mr. Smartypants?

Ha ha! Why, there's so many examples of eyewitnesses being wrong to choose from! There's the red panda story, the Uncle Don story, the Loch Ness fence post experiment, that guy who got shot up by the cops in England...

[XLDS03]

One night I saw a "Grey" alien with tan skin peering at me through my window. Turned out to be a beige car parked just outside my window. I saw my lamplight reflected in rounded, glassy eyes. Car windows.

I told this story to a true believer who then introduced me to David Icke. Author of a single book reprinted under some fourteen titles. All unreadable.

If it was an owl, that would've been even better than sighting an alien. Aliens could teleport anywhere. I've never seen an owl anywhere near my neighborhood.

[xblade]

Thanks!



Ha ha! Why, there's so many examples of eyewitnesses being wrong to choose from! There's the red panda story, the Uncle Don story, the Loch Ness fence post experiment, that guy who got shot up by the cops in England...

Yeah, but cops are reliable, credible witnesses who would never misidentify or hoax a sighting, or anything like that.

[wexer9]

[Amazing breakdown of the Jersey Devil.]
Your post is impressive and informative, thank you!

[Lrrr]

I think that now the Brodeur is back that the Jersey Devils *may* be real this year.

[quarky]

So,

Is there any logical explanation for New Jersey?

Have any of you ever been there?

[Safe-Keeper]

I, too, think the Devil is as real as Bigfoot :D !

Yeah, but cops are reliable, credible witnesses who would never misidentify or hoax a sighting, or anything like that. Cops are human beings. Human beings make mistakes, human beings create hoaxes, human beings lie. There are countless incidents of cops robbing, raping, murdering and taking bribes from people - compared to those things, I don't find it too unlikely that some blue would make something up about a devil for publicity.

[xblade]

I, too, think the Devil is as real as Bigfoot :D !

Cops are human beings. Human beings make mistakes, human beings create hoaxes, human beings lie. There are countless incidents of cops robbing, raping, murdering and taking bribes from people - compared to those things, I don't find it too unlikely that some blue would make something up about a devil for publicity.

No no, cops are reliable witnesses, and would never do such a thing. Just ask a bigfoot believer. :D

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Now that I think about it, some people reported seeing heads and teeth after seeing a fence post quickly pop in and out of the water in that Ness Loch fence post experiment (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3096839.stm) I mentioned earlier. Something like that could account for witnesses seeing forelegs, hooves, and/or horns on a sandhill crane. This would be especially possible if they had images of four-legged, winged monsters and devils to subconsciously draw inspiration from.

Come to think of it, the funniest response to xblade's joke would've been to make note of the kite test shown in the Birdzilla episode of "Monster Quest," which showed just how bad people are at judging the features of something, like its size.

Yeah, but cops are reliable, credible witnesses who would never misidentify or hoax a sighting, or anything like that.

I'd bet a proponent would also claim that the police in the UK don't use guns and therefore the story I cited is a hoax.

Your post is impressive and informative, thank you!

Oh gee, now I'm blushing...:D

[XLDS03]

So,

Is there any logical explanation for New Jersey?

Have any of you ever been there?

Maps of New Jersey.

Shows about New Jersey.

The Sopranos.

Plane routes to New Jersey.

Jokes about New Jersey. I don't hear any jokes about Atlantis or Lemuria. Adding to that, made-up places tend to be virtual Gardens of Eden.

Products with company addresses in New Jersey.

So on and so forth.

[wexer9]

I, too, think the Devil is as real as Bigfoot :D !

Cops are human beings. Human beings make mistakes, human beings create hoaxes, human beings lie. There are countless incidents of cops robbing, raping, murdering and taking bribes from people - compared to those things, I don't find it too unlikely that some blue would make something up about a devil for publicity.
As one of the hosts of the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe said, "There's no such thing as a credible witness." :D

[idoubtit]

Love the Jersey Devil. It's a great STORY.

This woman and her son pretty convincingly saw a bird - I thought owl. They went to turn out lights so were in the dark with no night vision and were spooked by something diving at them from the trees. Damn, who wouldn't be! I'd be freaked out by skunks, owls, raccoons, hobos, etc. living in the Pine Barrens.

The historic sitings were more likely a publicity hoax to sell more newspapers of the day. However, it does sound remarkably like a large bird. What is more likely -- a large bird or a lady gave birth to a mutant monster that flew up the chimney? Like, when does THAT ever happen?

[idoubtit]

Incidentally, I watch MonsterQuest with my 10 yr old and I let her comment on the goofiness, the fact they never find anything and their ability to find "fish noodlers" - people goofy enough to use their hands as bait for catfish.

An entertaining way to teach skepticism.