Ghost Hunters

[riptowtan]

You've all probably seen the show or heard about this quite comical job, but just one thing about their work confused me. I had someone ask me the other day how it is possible for an EMF signal to move. I don't know much about how natural magnetic fields behave but my only real guess was it couldn't have been something electronic. (Unless they were chasing each other's cellphones. Ha.) I think the whole ghost hunting thing is bunk and while I think people actually see what the claim some of the time, I think it is much more plausible to say they are hallucinating.

[blutoski]

Well, EM pulses are moving, by definition. At the speed of light, basically. But you can't follow that with a hand meter.

An electromagnetic field may not have a point source, so it can change shape, depending on changes in emissions from the sources collectively producing it.

My prediction is that if a directional meter was used (I've never seen one on that show) it would become evident that the field has no point source in the first place.

[dudalb]

The Only Ghost Hunters I Have Confidence In:






http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1884048176dfd1284d.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=11949)

[tyr_13]

You don't see them using the EMF to find bad cables as much anymore, and that saddens me because that's the only use those detectors anyway.

[wexer9]

You don't see them using the EMF to find bad cables as much anymore, and that saddens me because that's the only use those detectors anyway.
Exactly, they have no idea what their equipment does or how to use it.

[Archangel]

The Only Ghost Hunters I Have Confidence In:






http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1884048176dfd1284d.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=11949)

Meh they're wimps, who needs a Proton Pack when you've got a shotgun loaded with Rock Salt. Plus the Winchester boy's could kick their arses any day.

[AStone]

A few problems I have had with these ghost hunting shows(well, a few amongst many) have been:

1. If they are claiming to use science to prove or debunk so-called paranormal events, why don't they even make the attempt to replicate the experience of the claimer? All of these "investigations" take place after midnight with the lights turned off, whereas I highly doubt that all the supposed sightings happened whilst the claimers were sitting about in the dark, waiting for dawn.



2. EVPs.

3. Has anyone else seen the K2 meter on Ghost Hunters? They have been focusing on it a lot in recent eps. Apparently, it lights up when (Ooooooo) ghosts run their hands in front of it. They have set up a system where the hunters ask for the ghost to answer yes or no questions by making the lights flicker so many times.

What crap. If they really wanted to see if there was something there, they would name off letters on at a time, getting the "ghost" to light up the meter as the desired letter was called. This way they could get names, dates...whatever.

Nope, they are satisfied with the coin-flip model of maybe **** is happening, maybe not.

4. They claim that ghosts, no matter what language they spoke when alive, will understand what you say. Like there is some sort of automatic translation software you get when you die. Where the hell did they come up with that?

[tyr_13]

A few problems I have had with these ghost hunting shows(well, a few amongst many) have been:

1. If they are claiming to use science to prove or debunk so-called paranormal events, why don't they even make the attempt to replicate the experience of the claimer? All of these "investigations" take place after midnight with the lights turned off, whereas I highly doubt that all the supposed sightings happened whilst the claimers were sitting about in the dark, waiting for dawn.


Actually, most all the claims they try to debunk do take place after dark. I don't see this as a problem.

[cj.23]

A few problems I have had with these ghost hunting shows(well, a few amongst many) have been:

1. If they are claiming to use science to prove or debunk so-called paranormal events, why don't they even make the attempt to replicate the experience of the claimer? All of these "investigations" take place after midnight with the lights turned off, whereas I highly doubt that all the supposed sightings happened whilst the claimers were sitting about in the dark, waiting for dawn.



I asked the same question, while I was working in paranormal tv. I think it's a bloody good one. I've posted it on the forum before a long time ago, but here are my six types of ghosthunter!
The six types of Ghosthunter according to CJ --

1. the Safari Group - out to "catch" a ghost on film, armed with the latest in video, camera and laptop equipment. Every "vigil" begins with several hours of wiring and setting up sensitive devices all over the shop to allow these latter day big game hunters to bag the spook.



Usually succeed only in making you uncomfortable using the toilet in case you are being filmed or monitored, and while generally pleasant folks there is more technobabble than an episode of Star Trek.



Always find an "anomaly" which as they are usually waving around EMF meters sensitive enough to pick up a fridge being turned off at 300m is no surprise! Unfortunately likely to follow their own mobile phones in their pocket around with the EMF meters, convinced it's a spook, and tend to be



Very Serious Indeed, while having very little knowledge of the literature of parapsychology. Never publish their results.

2. the Legend Trippers - usually young people, who have dared themselves to go to the spooky place, where they plan to drink alcohol, tell ghost stories, frighten each other and make out. Not all legend trippers are teenagers - some are much older, but if you want to flirt and hear a lot of screaming these are your folks.



No ghosts caught but they have a good time, a bit like a fairground haunted house!



They never publish their results.


3. the Pyscho-dramatists - ok, these tend to be ladies, and these groups usually revolve around one or two star performers, with several minor competing mystics, all of whom compete to tell you the story of the lost little Victorian girl who was the daughter of the wicked Squire who abused her terribly, etc, etc - sort of paranormal MisLit.


Occasionally they encounter Terribly Evil Entities (TM) whose lack of corporeality has not slaked their lusts, and who have designs on the mediums person, which in many cases having seen the medium and witnessed their shrieking I would agree anything planning on ravishing them is a deeply unnnatural entity.



When they find a spook a redemptive myth is played out, and the spirit "moved on" in to "the light". Bizarrely, despite my cynicism I once saw this process appear to do something useful -- not all people in this category are nuts -- however a considerable number are.



They never publish their results.


4. The Enthusiastic Amateurs - always nice, people unsullied by contact with other ghost hunters and sometimes still naive enough to think that orbs are definitely paranormal, and scorn the dust hypothesis, these people have watched Most Haunted and bizarrely responded by wanting to do it themselves rather than selling their TV and emigrating.



I like them a lot, because generally you can teach them a few good habits, and sell them merchandise for said dodgy TV show, and because on the whole these are good hearted people with often great knowledge of local folklore and history. Enthusiastic, fun folks.



They never publish their results.




5. The Ghosthunting Machiavelli - this person has been in a dozen groups in the last year, all of which split off or schism-ed from each other. They have appalling relations with half the groups in the UK, and love to discuss ghost group family trees, their many enemies, and who is doing what with whom (in the bedroom not the haunted house usually!).



Often they have a profitable sideline in running paying events, but really they seem to mainly succeed in creating new groups and then alienating the committees of said groups.



They never publish their results, which is probably just as well!


I suppose I should offer my own perspective and why I differ very slightly while still having many of the failings I point out light heartedly in others, and some new ones all of my own.


All these "types", and most groups contain a mix of types, resulting in internal conflict, favour a method of investigation called the "vigil", which means pretty much sitting around all night waiting for stuff to happen. They hope to observe and interact with the phenomena first hand, and hence all the mediums/night vision cameras/EMF meters (very handy of you want to put a nail in the wall and not electrocute yourself, or see if your neighbour has turned on their washing machine, not so useful for ghosts!) and shouting "is there anybody there?" Not bloody likely with you lot kicking up a row. :)


I have of course sat through many hundred of these (being paid to do so for a long while) but my preferred method is the Inquiry Model. Briefly, arrive in daylight, and interview carefully the witnesses to previous "sightings". Record their testimony, and photograph "the scene of the crime" from many angles. Try to ascertain where the story originated, and who knew what and when about the purported phenomena. Collect interviews and evidence for as long as it takes,and perhaps attempt to reconstruct the incident. Carefully check out maps, and local histories for any useful clues, and then consult with relevant experts - often builder, plumbers, electricians, naturalists, geologists.



The emphasis here is on understanding how the account arose, and on trying to find the origin and explanation for the ghost, rather than sitting around trying to see it yourself. of course if the occurrences are frequent you might well do that -- but the tragedy of Most Haunted was it suggested ghost hunting was about personal encounters with the unknown, whereas really its generally about understanding and trying to explain other peoples experiences, and then writing up what you find. I'm not sure I have put this very well, but perhaps you can follow my intent?


Anyway, not sure if that is particularly helpful, but I thought I'd try and explain and am happy to field questions if I can. That is my personal experience, and despite my cynicism, I rather like the vast majority of ghosthunters who are lovely folks - and it is a topic I genuinely love talking about!


cj x


Anyway hope amused...

[patrick767]

2. the Legend Trippers - usually young people, who have dared themselves to go to the spooky place, where they plan to drink alcohol, tell ghost stories, frighten each other and make out. Not all legend trippers are teenagers - some are much older, but if you want to flirt and hear a lot of screaming these are your folks.

No ghosts caught but they have a good time, a bit like a fairground haunted house!


As long as they're not the teenaged ones, I'd hang out with this lot. I might need some noise cancellation headphones for when the screaming got irritating, but I'm all for knocking back some pints and having a good time. :p

[Steelmage]

Okay CJ what is the 6th type of ghost hunter-the Debunker or Inquirier?

[cj.23]

Any who believe that sitting around in the dark straining every nerve to sense something ghostly might be a flawed research method! :)

cj x

[blutoski]

I asked the same question, while I was working in paranormal tv. I think it's a bloody good one. I've posted it on the forum before a long time ago, but here are my six types of ghosthunter!
The six types of Ghosthunter according to CJ --

Good review.

I'd like to add: "The Coffee Klatch" - usually women. Rarely go on site visits, with the exception of their own homes. Most of their investigations are in a library, reading about the history of their home or neighbourhood. They may not publish their results, but may publish a compilation of local folklore suitable for coffee-table display.

[blutoski]

Good review.

I'd like to add: "The Coffee Klatch" - usually women. Rarely go on site visits, with the exception of their own homes. Most of their investigations are in a library, reading about the history of their home or neighbourhood. They may not publish their results, but may publish a compilation of local folklore suitable for coffee-table display.

Oh, also: "The Racketeers" - investigation as a loss leader for 'clearing' or exorcism services.

[tyr_13]

You forgot 'The Historian'.