The Darkness in Life.

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

I Believe in order to appreciate the Light in Life there must be Darkness.

I tried to explain this to a friend who by the way is a Christian. And he tells me if I am going to be a Christian I need to Stray from the Darkness rather than Befriend it and Learn to Control it.

I guess My real Question is...Do you Believe I could still be a Christian and Believe that you need Darkness in Life or would I need to Stray from it.

Either way if I cannot Believe in Balance then so be it, I am not a "True Christian" then

Also, what Religions Believe in Balance so I can look into them. I would Research it Myself but as of now I don't have much time left on the Computer.

Anyway, Thanks

[Neverfly]

I Believe in order to appreciate the Light in Life there must be Darkness.

I tried to explain this to a friend who by the way is a Christian. And he tells me if I am going to be a Christian I need to Stray from the Darkness rather than Befriend it and Learn to Control it.

I guess My real Question is...Do you Believe I could still be a Christian and Believe that you need Darkness in Life or would I need to Stray from it.

Either way if I cannot Believe in Balance then so be it, I am not a "True Christian" then

Also, what Religions Believe in Balance so I can look into them. I would Research it Myself but as of now I don't have much time left on the Computer.

Anyway, Thanks

Check out Taoism or Buddhism.

As far as the commentary of darkness... You would need to provide very clear definitions of what you and he mean by the word "darkness."
The word is representative rather than stand alone- especially where religion is concerned.

I can make a strong argument about Darkness.

"Darkness is eternal and absolute truth. Darkness represents truth, because it is what remains when all illusions are stripped away. It is eternal and unending.
It requires no source.
Light, however, like a lie, requires a source. It needs upkeep, maintenance and fuel. A lie also needs these things. To get at the truth, one must first expose and strip away lies. To get at darkness, one must first eliminate light.
You don't need to provide any source for truth. It is what remains.
You don't need a source for darkness- it is what remains."

Now, a religious person would undoubtedly be horrified by such commentary. because their definition of the word darkness includes allusions to the Satanic, demons evil- etc.
They see Light as a cleanser- washing away darkness.

[RobRoy]

Also, what Religions Believe in Balance so I can look into them. I would Research it Myself but as of now I don't have much time left on the Computer.

I can't answer the first, as I'm not a theologian, but I would think your friend is right in regards to being a "good Christian".

Can you define what you mean by "balance", especially how you define the "light" and the "darkness"?

As far as balance, per se, there are no end of New Age religions that go for this. Neo-Paganism and Neo-Druidism come to mind first. I'm not too up on Wiccans

Buddhism and Taoism have a balance between its principle elements.

Zoroastrianism claims that active participation in life is required, but you are to do good acts and think good thoughts.

ETA: I see Neverfly and I are on the same page in regards to definitions. Very key when asking such a question.

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

Ahhh, Well what I mean by Darkness is like....The "Bad" in life. Like Negativity being The Darkness and Positivity being The Light.

[RobRoy]

Ahhh, Well what I mean by Darkness is like....The "Bad" in life. Like Negativity being The Darkness and Positivity being The Light.

Can you provide an example of how (and why) you would want to pursue the "bad in life"?

[JetLeg]

__

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

I Pursue the Bad in Life so I can Reach the Good.

I Believe with Good comes Bad and vice versa.

Not that I am saying I Enjoy the Bad in Life but I Believe it is necessary.

[Neverfly]

What Ninja is saying is pretty basic...

Sometimes you gotta feel hurt to appreciate the times you feel joy.

You gotta know suffering in order to appreciate happiness.

And that's fairly true. Without a perspective to compare with, One cannot be happy if they are ALWAYS happy. In fact... I find always happy people to be annoying:p

And DeadlyNinja, in all reality... You WILL suffer, no matter what faith you ascribe to.
Even the Good Christian experiences suffering and that good christian attributes that suffering as "Gods will" to keep them appreciative of good, to learn lessons in life or whatever other purpose that suffering may serve.

So basically, your friend is simply focusing on the word and not paying attention to your point. Don't pay him much mind.

Now, if you truly want a recommendation for a system that allows you the fullest freedom to understand the world...:
I recommend Science. The scientific method.

[Third Eye Open]

I like To capitalize Random words in my Sentences Also.

[RobRoy]

What Ninja is saying is pretty basic...

Sometimes you gotta feel hurt to appreciate the times you feel joy.

You gotta know suffering in order to appreciate happiness.

This would have been my definition, except he throws me when he says, "Befriend [the darkness] and Learn to Control it." That's vastly different from simply experiencing the ups and downs of a normal life.

And that's fairly true. Without a perspective to compare with, One cannot be happy if they are ALWAYS happy. In fact... I find always happy people to be annoying:p

Curious, how many people have you met who were "ALWAYS happy"?

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

Hmm,I am going to research Taoism and look into Science

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

Rob...

A simple way to put it is rather than push the bad away accept it and control it and by control I mean don't go and kill yourself over something bad. learn to take knowledge from it and move on.

[RobRoy]

Rob...

A simple way to put it is rather than push the bad away accept it and control it and by control I mean don't go and kill yourself over something bad. learn to take knowledge from it and move on.

Ahhh, gotcha. Just my reading too much into what you had said. Carry on! Good luck with your search.

[Neverfly]

I like To capitalize Random words in my Sentences Also.

For me, it is not random at all. It's to emphasize certain words.
It's probably a bad habit and some people out there are as annoyed by it as I am annoyed by those who comment on how annoying they find it.

Curious, how many people have you met who were "ALWAYS happy"?
Too many!

Originally Posted by XxDeadlyNinjaxX
A simple way to put it is rather than push the bad away accept it and control it and by control I mean don't go and kill yourself over something bad. learn to take knowledge from it and move on.
Exactly. Most of the people I have ever met try to shelter themselves from negative issues, ignore the issues, hide from them, deny them... etc.

The problem is, that retards the learning process. It's like an ostrich sticking its head into the sand.

Think of relationships. People often behave in odd ways when they are afraid of being hurt. The reason is because they are trying to avoid it.
But, as XxDeadlyNinjaxX implied, it's better to embrace it and understand it so that you can control your situation rather than letting it control you.

[RobRoy]

For me, it is not random at all. It's to emphasize certain words.
It's probably a bad habit and some people out there are as annoyed by it as I am annoyed by those who comment on how annoying they find it.

It's a really bad habit to get into, and one that should be done away with as quickly as possible. Emphasis should be used sparingly, and only proper nouns should be capitalized within a sentence.

Too many!

Fascinating. I've never met anyone who was happy all the time. Perhaps I just bring people down. :jaw-dropp

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

Exactly! lol

It is hard at first for some but it is a very helpful Technique Neverfly.

[JetLeg]

For me, it is not random at all. It's to emphasize certain words.
It's probably a bad habit and some people out there are as annoyed by it as I am annoyed by those who comment on how annoying they find it.

Too many!


Exactly. Most of the people I have ever met try to shelter themselves from negative issues, ignore the issues, hide from them, deny them... etc.

The problem is, that retards the learning process. It's like an ostrich sticking its head into the sand.

Think of relationships. People often behave in odd ways when they are afraid of being hurt. The reason is because they are trying to avoid it.
But, as XxDeadlyNinjaxX implied, it's better to embrace it and understand it so that you can control your situation rather than letting it control you.


XxDeadlyNinjaxX, frankly, I like what Neverfly said.

His language is very clear.

When I was a buddhist, I interpreted buddhism to mean more or less what Neverfly says above.

But in MUCH more mystical terms. I would never use such simple words to say that.

Where am I going to with this? I am hinting that eastern religions might conceal common sense truths in complicated words... So perhaps there is no need to seek relgions - maybe the answers are actually pretty simple, and are common wisdom, if you think for yourself.

[RobRoy]

Exactly! lol

It is hard at first for some but it is a very helpful Technique.

While I understand what you're trying to do, bolding, italics, or underlining are all better techniques, and are universally acceptable. At a stretch, and used sparingly, all caps (though this can be interpreted as yelling on the internet). Your style makes the capitalization appear random, since you use it so often.

[normdoering]

Do you Believe I could still be a Christian and Believe that you need Darkness in Life or would I need to Stray from it.

The Bible itself is very dark. You can't embrace God without accepting that God kills on a massive scale and created hell. Is that not dark?

However, I've been told you have to stay away from Devil music:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/12/devils-music.html

[JetLeg]

While I understand what you're trying to do, bolding, italics, or underlining are all better techniques, and are universally acceptable. At a stretch, and used sparingly, all caps (though this can be interpreted as yelling on the internet). Your style makes the capitalization appear random, since you use it so often.

Random capitals is the way to show on the internet that you are starry-eyed :)

[RobRoy]

The Bible itself is very dark. You can't embrace the Christian God without accepting that the Christian God kills on a massive scale and created hell. Is that not dark?

Fixed it. :D

Yeah, the Bible is a pretty dark piece of work. There is wholesale slaughter, giving up family members for rape, torture, and brutality of every kind.

Random capitals is the way to show on the internet that you are starry-eyed...

I wasn't aware. I haven't been starry-eyed in some time.

[Neverfly]

While I understand what you're trying to do, bolding, italics, or underlining are all better techniques, and are universally acceptable. At a stretch, and used sparingly, all caps (though this can be interpreted as yelling on the internet). Your style makes the capitalization appear random, since you use it so often.
Yes, I've been told before. And it's true, I cannot refute the argument that it's better to use Proper English.

All the same, I still ask of people patience, after-all, FWIW, LOL, Yeah, ok, okay, OTOH etc are also all not proper english.

I'll try to improve my communication, but no promises.

His language is very clear.
That's unusual for me.
Most of the time I type a novel... and then ten seconds later some genius comes along and sums up everything I just said in one short beautiful sentence.
All I can do is stare and think, "Damn. How do they do that?!"
I am hinting that eastern religions might conceal common sense truths in complicated words... So perhaps there is no need to seek relgions - maybe the answers are actually pretty simple, and are common wisdom, if you think for yourself.
This is a double edged sword.

There are a great many eastern teachings that are enlightening and very well founded and solid.

There are also eastern religions and teachings that are so maniacally faith based and nonsensical it will almost literally make your head pop reading about them.

I wasn't aware. I haven't been starry-eyed in some time.

I can show you some stars. Or.. if I fail in the attempt, at least little birdies.

[JetLeg]

There are a great many eastern teachings that are enlightening and very well founded and solid.



This is not what I said. I said nothing about how "well founded" and "solid" they are.

I noted that when there is a kernel of truth, I have found out that there is always a simple, less mystical way to say it.

But which ones do you mean?

[RobRoy]

Yes, I've been told before. And it's true, I cannot refute the argument that it's better to use Proper English.

All the same, I still ask of people patience, after-all, FWIW, LOL, Yeah, ok, okay, OTOH etc are also all not proper english.

I'll try to improve my communication, but no promises.

Ahhh, some miscommunication. My comments were not aimed at you, and reading this post, I believe that Third Eye Open's comments were not as well. My comments were aimed at XxDeadlyNinjaxX, and I thought that's who you were defending against Third Eye Open.

I have not seen you use the random capitalization technique as a means of emphasis. While we could all improve our English skills, I haven't seen anything particularly worrisome in yours. Certainly nothing that I would feel compelled to comment upon. Especially since I still have trouble spelling definately, difinately . . . definitely correct! :D

I can show you some stars. Or.. if I fail in the attempt, at least little birdies.

I think my wife would disapprove. :cool:

[Neverfly]

This is not what I said. I said nothing about how "well founded" and "solid" they are.

I noted that when there is a kernel of truth, I have found out that there is always a simple, less mystical way to say it.

But which ones do you mean?

Sorry about that Jetleg.

I was not saying that you had said that- I was expanding on that point with a warning.

As to which ones... <chuckle>
That's worthy of its own thread.
Ahhh, some miscommunication. My comments were not aimed at you, and reading this post, I believe that Third Eye Open's comments were not as well. My comments were aimed at XxDeadlyNinjaxX, and I thought that's who you were defending against Third Eye Open.

I have not seen you use the random capitalization technique as a means of emphasis.
I was not sure who Third Eye Open was addressing, but being a bit of a Tool fan...:p
I had to step up and take account even so.
I do do that on occasion. You may not have noticed it. But I am guilty, too.
While we could all improve our English skills, I haven't seen anything particularly worrisome in yours. Certainly nothing that I would feel compelled to comment upon. Especially since I still have trouble spelling definately, difinately . . . definitely correct! :D
In I.E. there's a program called ie.espell that can be downloaded... I use Firefox with spell checker;)
It's a bit annoying at times, though. It doesn't check when numbers accide4ntly get injected into9 words.
I think my wife would disapprove. :cool:
Depends on catching her in the right moment.;)

[RobRoy]

I was not sure who Third Eye Open was addressing, but being a bit of a Tool fan...:p
I had to step up and take account even so.
I do do that on occasion. You may not have noticed it. But I am guilty, too.

To quote the great Mr. Spock, "No one is perfect, Mr. Saavik.

In I.E. there's a program called ie.espell that can be downloaded... I use Firefox with spell checker;)
It's a bit annoying at times, though. It doesn't check when numbers accide4ntly get injected into9 words.

My office does not permit us to download anything, so I must resort to my own, Huked On Fonix spelling skills. :jaw-dropp

Depends on catching her in the right moment.;)

Or you, apparently. ;)

[Jackalgirl]

Again, depends on what you mean by "darkness", and how close this is to the Christian descriptions of "evil".

Also, it depends on how close to what you're talking about is to conventional definitions of "illegal".

However, let me refer you to a really good book, "Diamond Age", by Neal Stephenson. It's about nanotechnology, but it also goes very deeply into ideas about where morality comes from; some of the characters strongly espouse what you may be ultimately saying: that a visceral experience of evil is what leads someone to truly, sentiently, embrace a moral code. (In the story, there are a group of people who embrace Victorian-era mores. They did so because they came out of a post-government world collapse in which amorality reigned. They're worried about their children and children's children, who grew up in this new world with the moral code intact and who accept it by rote -- so you could say, in a sense, that they do not actually choose it. The story is about one character's attempt to introduce perversity* into children's education.)

*By "perversity" I do not mean sexual perversity. Rather, what Stephenson talks about is what we would call "grim" or "dark" elements -- like the (original) Grimm's Fairy Tales. By vicariously experiencing evil through the characters in the story, the hope is that children will come to embrace the culture's moral code because they see that it is a rational response to amorality. The characters seek to create children who are not afraid of contradition or paradox, and who do not automatically expect that the simplest answer is the correct one.

Religion-wise, you might be interested in my own faith, Kemetic Orthodoxy (http://www.netjer.org). Part of the underpinnings of the faith is that there can be very contradictory (and even opposing) faces of God: to whit, you've got Osirus (linked to the green, growing land) and Set (linked to the red desert and to storms). Set is not evil, in the classical Christian "SATAN!!!" sense. Set represents forces of nature that can be incredibly destructive, but just are (and, in fact, is the only Name strong enough to face Apep, which represents isfet, or "evil"). Evil, in the KO sense, is (sort of) Uncreation (not death, which is a part of life).

KO might twig to what you're saying; if I'm understanding you correctly, there might be some parallels.

[Elizabeth I]

Exactly! lol

It is hard at first for some but it is a very helpful Technique Neverfly.

It's ignorant.

[Neverfly]

It's ignorant.

Ignorance would be hiding from your problems.

Do you actually have something useful to say?

[Ron_Tomkins]

You don't know the Power of the Dark Side!

[Shalamar]

You don't know the Power of the Dark Side!

Hey! Thats MY line! :mad::p

[Hokulele]

Bacchus, ever fair and young,
Drinking joys did first ordain;
Bacchus' blessings are a treasure,
Drinking is the soldier's pleasure;
Rich the treasure,
Sweet the pleasure,
Sweet is pleasure after pain.

- John Dryden

[The Atheist]

I Believe in order to appreciate the Light in Life there must be Darkness.

You missed the point: the darkness is the light.

[Tumblehome]

And how much would we appreciate life without death, etc. etc.?

Curious, how many people have you met who were "ALWAYS happy"?


I used to have a born-again couple for neighbours who were always happy during the few years they lived beside us. Always had a smile and a cheerful comment. It became irritating after a while because it just didn't seem natural somehow.

But that only lasted as long as things were going their way. When their kids hit puberty and started causing problems that their "happiness" couldn't prevent or fix, they fell apart. In the end, their lives were just as balanced as anyone else's, but rather unnaturally so.

[Bikewer]

I've always been fond of the quote from Terence (Terentius) "I am a man, and nothing human is alien to me."

Of course, Obi-Wan was always warning Luke of the dangers of the "dark side"...

Much of value in Taoism...Hint, go to a library and get a number of different translations. Also, be sure to get one with all the commentary; some of the stuff is culture-specific and requires a little scholarly clarification.

[RobRoy]

In the end, their lives were just as balanced as anyone else's, but rather unnaturally so.

How was it "unnaturally so"? I'm not questioning your statement, I'm curious about your observations.

[Beerina]

What Ninja is saying is pretty basic...

Sometimes you gotta feel hurt to appreciate the times you feel joy.

How very Epicurean.


Although going hungry all day makes plain lettuce taste delicious, I'm not sure if this applies to morality.

And why would one pursue bad morality in order to enjoy the good? Make someone poor so you can feel good giving them food?

How exatly would this work?

[quarky]

god and the devil are an essential team.

[RobRoy]

And why would one pursue bad morality in order to enjoy the good? Make someone poor so you can feel good giving them food?

How exatly would this work?

I asked that same question up above; here is DN's response (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4525646&postcount=12).

[Hokulele]

Much of value in Taoism...Hint, go to a library and get a number of different translations. Also, be sure to get one with all the commentary; some of the stuff is culture-specific and requires a little scholarly clarification.


I also recommend reading Chuang Tzu alongside the standard Lao Tzu (Tao Te Ching) for another take on Taoism. His writings give a bunch of examples of putting balance into practice in daily life.

[Piscivore]

How very Epicurean.


Although going hungry all day makes plain lettuce taste delicious, I'm not sure if this applies to morality.

And why would one pursue bad morality in order to enjoy the good? Make someone poor so you can feel good giving them food?

How exatly would this work?

"It's only in the face of horror that you truly find your nobler selves. And you can be so noble. So, I'll bring you pain, I'll bring you horror, so that you may rise above it."

[Tumblehome]

How was it "unnaturally so"? I'm not questioning your statement, I'm curious about your observations.


Our ups and downs are normally of fairly short duration. If we have a bad day at work, or get treated unfairly somehow, we get grumpy or angry and get it out of our system. This couple, thanks to their constant religious high, didn't seem to acknowledge the low points they experienced (I can only assume they experienced them because they never let on). Their "up" lasted for years, but when their cheery belief turned out to be insufficient against bigger problems that came later, they crashed big time. Their "down" was long and deep, and harder to recover from.

[Neverfly]

How very Epicurean.


Although going hungry all day makes plain lettuce taste delicious, I'm not sure if this applies to morality.

And why would one pursue bad morality in order to enjoy the good? Make someone poor so you can feel good giving them food?

How exatly would this work?

In living our lives, we WILL experience hardships. No one needs to make an effort for that to happen.
The premise is on facing those hardships well, rather than living in denial.

[RobRoy]

Our ups and downs are normally of fairly short duration. If we have a bad day at work, or get treated unfairly somehow, we get grumpy or angry and get it out of our system. This couple, thanks to their constant religious high, didn't seem to acknowledge the low points they experienced (I can only assume they experienced them because they never let on). Their "up" lasted for years, but when their cheery belief turned out to be insufficient against bigger problems that came later, they crashed big time. Their "down" was long and deep, and harder to recover from.

Makes sense. I don't know that I would call it an "unnatural" low, but I'm not certain what a better term would be. Thank you for defining.

[Neverfly]

Makes sense. I don't know that I would call it an "unnatural" low, but I'm not certain what a better term would be. Thank you for defining.

Agreed, that was an excellent and concise description.

[quarky]

Darkness is truth, but we are the way. Isn't that the deal?

Especially if we have a flashlight?

We bring light to the darkness, so we can see our way around.

[Ron_Tomkins]

Hey! Thats MY line! :mad::p

oh.... Master! I'm sorry. I didn't know you posted here

I've been practicing the oath and the Energy transmission as you taught me

So are we still on for that lesson next week?

[Tumblehome]

Makes sense. I don't know that I would call it an "unnatural" low, but I'm not certain what a better term would be. Thank you for defining.


Yeah, "unnatural" might not be the best term. I called it that because being on a constant high, whether it's from the "opiate of the masses" or actual drugs doesn't seem natural. But I'm open to a better term. :)

[RobRoy]

Yeah, "unnatural" might not be the best term. I called it that because being on a constant high, whether it's from the "opiate of the masses" or actual drugs doesn't seem natural. But I'm open to a better term. :)

Not certain, which is why I caveated my statement with such. :D

Your usage makes sense in the context of your story. They had, I suppose we could say unnaturally, raised their highs too high through their use of religion. When the crash came, it was thus bigger than one would expect in the normal course of things. Unnatural works in this context.