Stone Henge/Coral Castle demystified by Wally-Henge-how to build

[jakesteele]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRRDzFROMx0

This is probably old news here, but I was so blown away when I saw this I almost pissed myself. I've always been like Fox Mulder in that "I want to believe" but was 'cursed' with a skeptical mindset that makes it difficult to do so.

I think this vid takes the mystique out of pyramids, Coral Castle and Stone Henge. Just plain old human ingenuity. Humans are astounding at what they can accomplish when they set their minds to.

[Soapy Sam]

I actually bought Wally's CD a year or so ago. He's not as good a video engineer as he is a mechanical one, but it's great fun. See more at his website here:-
http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/


ETA- Needs Quicktime.

[jakesteele]

I actually bought Wally's CD a year or so ago. He's not as good a video engineer as he is a mechanical one, but it's great fun. See more at his website here:-
http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/


ETA- Needs Quicktime.


Great link, thanks. Also, if you can find it the History Channel did a great show on Yankee ingenuity during war time and how it played a key role in WWII. Also, they made a great show on the Easter Island statues that showed how they were made and why. It dealt with the island loosing natural resources and two religious factions going at each other out of fear and superstition and the statues were tributes to their God.

[Renfield]

Ridiculous. Everyone knows it was aliens. They couldn't have built those giant statues without rock cutting lasers and anti-gravity gear.

[Biscuit]

There was a NatGeo show the other day about the pyramids that explored the idea the they were built using a combination of an internal ramp system and a single ramp extending out from one side.

I couldn't find it on the natgeo pages but I found this.

http://www.archaeology.org/0705/etc/pyramid.html

[Resolver]

I wrote this analysis based on block and tackle, gear trains, and levers in wiki discussion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Coral_Castle#It_can_be_done:

[Harpyja]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRRDzFROMx0

This is probably old news here, but I was so blown away when I saw this I almost pissed myself. I've always been like Fox Mulder in that "I want to believe" but was 'cursed' with a skeptical mindset that makes it difficult to do so.

I think this vid takes the mystique out of pyramids, Coral Castle and Stone Henge. Just plain old human ingenuity. Humans are astounding at what they can accomplish when they set their minds to.

There is nothing "plain" about human ingenuity. ;)

[Akhenaten]

There is nothing "plain" about human ingenuity. ;)





I would so much like to second this sentiment. It seems to me that far to many people are willing to underestimate the abilities of those who have gone before us and ascribe their achievements to supernatural or extraterrestrial sources.

It's not just woo, it's arrogant woo.

What a piece of work is a man,
how noble in reason,
how infinite in faculties,
in form and moving how express and admirable,
in action how like an angel,
in apprehension how like a god!

[ShadowSot]

Of course it goes without saying this isn't necessarily the methods used by the Egyptians, but still, it shows that it was well within their abilities to move the large blocks of stone.

Had a bit of fun the other day, my mom bought a huge television set and called me over to help her move it.
It was to heavy for me and her to lift, so we set it down. I managed to find a couple of pieces of PVC pipes to use as rollers, and we managed to get it to the steps, and then use a large stick for leverage to get it over the front step.
Worked like a charm.

[Akhenaten]

Of course it goes without saying this isn't necessarily the methods used by the Egyptians, but still, it shows that it was well within their abilities to move the large blocks of stone.





That's what I like about these programmes in general. They serve well to de-mystify the engineering feats of our ancestors, and force people to acknowledge that aliens and giants aren't required to explain them.


Having said that though, I must admit that I'm not a big fan of the internal ramp theory. To me it seems to be adding a considerable degree of difficulty over an external ramp.



Had a bit of fun the other day, my mom bought a huge television set and called me over to help her move it.

It was to heavy for me and her to lift, so we set it down. I managed to find a couple of pieces of PVC pipes to use as rollers, and we managed to get it to the steps, and then use a large stick for leverage to get it over the front step.

Worked like a charm.





The Master would be very proud of you. :)



http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/Imhotep2.jpg

[Cuddles]

I would so much like to second this sentiment. It seems to me that far to many people are willing to underestimate the abilities of those who have gone before us and ascribe their achievements to supernatural or extraterrestrial sources.

What really confuses me is the disconnect many people seem to have. On the one hand, the "ancients" were far wiser and more knowledgeable than us - advanced maths and technology, medicine that could cure or prevent pretty much anything, the ability to predict the future, and so on. But on the other hand, they didn't have the ability to move a few lumps of stone around. How is it people can believe all kinds of crazy things about ancient civilisations, yet still require magic or aliens for a bit of simple engineering?

[paiute]

Of course it goes without saying this isn't necessarily the methods used by the Egyptians, but still, it shows that it was well within their abilities to move the large blocks of stone.

Had a bit of fun the other day, my mom bought a huge television set and called me over to help her move it.
It was to heavy for me and her to lift, so we set it down. I managed to find a couple of pieces of PVC pipes to use as rollers, and we managed to get it to the steps, and then use a large stick for leverage to get it over the front step.
Worked like a charm.

Oh come on. Do you expect us to believe that your mom built the pyramids?

[richardm]

Oh come on. Do you expect us to believe that your mom built the pyramids?

It's ridiculous isn't it? They didn't even have PVC pipes in those days.

[SeanDamnit]

fascinating, but how do you get the top piece on?

[MG1962]

That's what I like about these programmes in general. They serve well to de-mystify the engineering feats of our ancestors, and force people to acknowledge that aliens and giants aren't required to explain them.


Having said that though, I must admit that I'm not a big fan of the internal ramp theory. To me it seems to be adding a considerable degree of difficulty over an external ramp.


And I am the opposite. There is a sense of practicality about it that really was the hallmark of Egyptian thinking.

Having said that I have seen a group of 5 stone cutters raise a 1 tonne block 6 feet of the ground in a matter of minutes.

Odds a probably high the builders did not restrict themselves to any specific process. Each major theory works very well at different heights. So the internal, external and straight lift all had there place

[Soapy Sam]

That and lots of whips...

[ShadowSot]

What really confuses me is the disconnect many people seem to have. On the one hand, the "ancients" were far wiser and more knowledgeable than us - advanced maths and technology, medicine that could cure or prevent pretty much anything, the ability to predict the future, and so on. But on the other hand, they didn't have the ability to move a few lumps of stone around. How is it people can believe all kinds of crazy things about ancient civilisations, yet still require magic or aliens for a bit of simple engineering?

As far as I can tell, the general consensus, if there is such a thing, among conspiracy theories is that the ancients were all taught by aliens/Atlanteans all at about the same time... even cultures separated by centuries and base beliefs.
So while they were very intelligent, it was mostly due to the aleins, who also built all the monuments.

Personally, I think the people who believe this have some sort of a inferiority complex.


Originally by Paiute
Oh come on. Do you expect us to believe that your mom built the pyramids?



Psh, all we did was push it up the ramp.



Originally by Richardm
It's ridiculous isn't it? They didn't even have PVC pipes in those days.


PVC is actually an ancient secret that was only revealed after the Gubbermints realized that the plastic PVC could be used to increase our reliance on oil products.


Originally by SeanDamnit
fascinating, but how do you get the top piece on?


Sorry, not my job. Ask the foreman.
Or was that four men? Eh, not important.



Originally by Soapy Sam
That and lots of whips...



Doubtful, the workers were mostly farmers who had little else to do while the Nile was up and the farmlands were flooded.

[Tiktaalik]

Great link, thanks. Also, if you can find it the History Channel did a great show on Yankee ingenuity during war time and how it played a key role in WWII. Also, they made a great show on the Easter Island statues that showed how they were made and why. It dealt with the island loosing natural resources and two religious factions going at each other out of fear and superstition and the statues were tributes to their God.

Has been one of my favorite websites for several years. I recommend it whenever it's appropriate. Someday I plan to use some of those techniques...

[23_Tauri]

fascinating, but how do you get the top piece on?

Sorry, not my job. Ask the foreman.
Or was that four men? Eh, not important.
Au contraire, I think it is important. How do you put the top piece on, using the techniques demonstrated by Wally? I'm not suggesting aliens did it, but it would be nice if someone could enlighten me, after all the film commentary does say that he's planning to build a Stonehenge in his garden and you can't have a Stonehenge without lintels.

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world."

[Akhenaten]

fascinating, but how do you get the top piece on?





Helikhopters

http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/EgyptHelicopter.jpg
Is that a blimp I see there, to the right of 'Stonehenge'?


This'll end well.

[SeanDamnit]

Au contraire, I think it is important. How do you put the top piece on, using the techniques demonstrated by Wally? I'm not suggesting aliens did it, but it would be nice if someone could enlighten me, after all the film commentary does say that he's planning to build a Stonehenge in his garden and you can't have a Stonehenge without lintels.

I'm assuming that Wally has it figured out some way, since the top piece was on that smaller scale version at the beginning of the video. Perhaps you get the piece up that high using the same teeter totter technique shown then somehow scoot it on top of the other two stones?

[23_Tauri]

I'm assuming that Wally has it figured out some way, since the top piece was on that smaller scale version at the beginning of the video.
Assume nothing! Maybe he was still working on that part of the puzzle. Worked it up in the garage, 1/50th of the scale....

Perhaps you get the piece up that high using the same teeter totter technique shown then somehow scoot it on top of the other two stones?
That was my thought too. He moves each end of the block up and then supports it with another plank of wood. If he did this for long enough he could theoretically, as long as he maintained balance, get it to a considerable height. However, he then faces additional problems tilting the whole block over, on to two uprights, to form a lintel. The force is the first problem. It could cause cracking. The second is maintaining accuracy so it doesn't fall. I'm no nothing about engineering or pulleys and levers, but even to my untrained eye this seems rife with difficulties.

Please don't let me go down the blimp route with this. :D

[shadron]

Au contraire, I think it is important. How do you put the top piece on, using the techniques demonstrated by Wally? I'm not suggesting aliens did it, but it would be nice if someone could enlighten me, after all the film commentary does say that he's planning to build a Stonehenge in his garden and you can't have a Stonehenge without lintels.

It can be done. Drag it to the center of the bottom floor; build a triangular hoist frame (three poles tied together at the top. Drop a rope form the apex to the cap. Turn the cap, tightening the rope; it will pull the cap upwards as it twists tighter. slide a layer of stones underneath, lower, remove poles and floor the rest of that layer. Repeat as needed. That's only one possibility.

If you are asking about Stonehenge, you can lift the lintels up on a bed just like he does his upright; tilt it back and forth, inserting 2x4's underneath until it is as high as it needs to be. Use his levers to rotate it so a socket fits into a knob on one side, the rotate it on that pivot until the other socket hits it's knob. The big problem here is safety more than how to do it. I imagine that he'll start having OSHA or some such visits soon. Thankfully the Basket People didn't have that problem.

[Marduk]

Au contraire, I think it is important. How do you put the top piece on,

you build an earth ramp so that the uprights are completely buried, then you walk the lintel stone up there,
or you use the cursus
:rolleyes:

btw while I'm here is anyone actually interested in how coral castle was built ?

hint:real levitation was involved

Thankfully the Basket People didn't have that problem.
that would be the beaker people iirc
:p

[23_Tauri]

Thanks shadron and Marduk, I like both those explanations. :)

[shadron]

you build an earth ramp so that the uprights are completely buried, then you walk the lintel stone up there,
or you use the cursus
:rolleyes:

btw while I'm here is anyone actually interested in how coral castle was built ?

hint:real levitation was involved

Sure, bring it on.

that would be the beaker people iirc
:p

Yup. That's right.

[Marduk]

The secret of Coral Castle
Ed Leedskalnin was a master of the black arts
he levitated the blocks into place using nothing but his dark mind power and a few magical devices such as
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/belmarduk/coralcastlelift1.jpg
and
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/belmarduk/modernmegalithus02d_03.jpg

The pulley system he used is currently on display at the coral castle (on site) museum
;)

I actually bought Wally's CD a year or so ago. He's not as good a video engineer as he is a mechanical one, but it's great fun. See more at his website here:-
http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/


ETA- Needs Quicktime.

Wally sent me his CD a few years back gratis because I have tirelessly rammed his excellent work and principles down every online woos throat I could find, I donated it to Cambridge university archaeology dept. I have heard nothing about it from them since
:rolleyes:

[marplots]

One man could not erect the huge poles seen in these pictures. Obviously, the alien tech he used only works on wood and not coral. Plus, for a man in his 90's, he looks very, very young.

[Resolver]

A block and tackle alone would only reduce the weight of the blocks by a factor of 10 or so, at the very most. So the 27 ton stone would still be 2.7 tons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_and_tackle

However, this can be explained using additional simple mechanical devices such as a gear train and a long lever to spin the driver gear.

These could bring the total force required by a factor of 2,400, making Ed need apply only 11.25 kg, or 24.75 pounds, of force for a long time to slowly spin the huge blocks up.

Here is my explanation of how this would work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Coral_Castle#It_can_be_done_with_the_most_sim ple_machines

But, in the pictures, I don't see such levers. The gear trains might be up top near the pulley wheels. I'm not saying these aren't there, or there aren't other devices in use, but I'd be interested in seeing them.

As for magnetic currents and such, OTOH, it should be possible to measure the magnetic fields in this place. If these were present at the levels required, it would have been mentioned, with specifics about these fields.

Overall, I think people that don't understand physics and mechanics very well are easily fooled into thinking there is some magic here beyond that of simple but large mechanical devices.

[Marduk]

I'd like to know where you got the 27 ton figure from
:D
and who weighed it

[Jim_MDP]

"Stonehenge Reloaded" ... sweet.

This seems to be a cleaned up version of the vid, just paste after the YouTube url...

/watch?v=pCvx5gSnfW4&feature=related

Sorry, had to start with a new user account.


---
Yes, I'm back.
"Where ya been Jim?"
"House fire."
"Oh."
---

[Marduk]

"Stonehenge Reloaded" ... sweet.

This seems to be a cleaned up version of the vid, just paste after the YouTube url...

/watch?v=pCvx5gSnfW4&feature=related

Sorry, had to start with a new user account.

---
pCvx5gSnfW4&feature=related

:D

[marplots]

On the Wally stuff, does anyone know how he gets the pivot stones under the huge blocks in the first place? I get that once they are there he can 'walk' the big stuff, but how do you slip them under to start with?

[Marduk]

On the Wally stuff, does anyone know how he gets the pivot stones under the huge blocks in the first place? I get that once they are there he can 'walk' the big stuff, but how do you slip them under to start with?

“Give me a place to stand and a lever long enough and I will move the world."

;)

[ugot2bekidding]

On a History Channel show, this douchebag Expert Researcher claimed that the pyramids could not have been built using human technology because they would have had to place one block every nine seconds (or maybe minutes, I forget).

So what are the actual numbers involved? How long did it take to build the Great Pyramid, and how many blocks does it contain?

[Marduk]

How long did it take to build the Great Pyramid,
23 years

and how many blocks does it contain?
2.3 million
;)

[Steelmage]

It is nice that someone actually solved this mystery, besides this was covered by Skeptiod, episode 149.

Link:

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4149#

[SusanB-M1]

There was a NatGeo show the other day about the pyramids that explored the idea the they were built using a combination of an internal ramp system and a single ramp extending out from one side.

I couldn't find it on the natgeo pages but I found this.

http://www.archaeology.org/0705/etc/pyramid.html
Very interesting article. I wonder how (a) they were able to get enough blocks inside via the outside ramp to complete the pyramid, or (b) whether access to the internal ramps was maintained by leaving a 'hole' at the top of the outside ramp until the pyramid was complete? Maybe that was in fact the 'entrance' which was sealed/blocked - by the last to leave the pyramid - by some sort of lever system which dropped blocks into place. I read about this years ago in a book which told of when and how people, right from early on, tried to get into the pyramid; mostly to rob it of course!