George A Custer

[MG1962]

I help out as an archivist at a historical society of a County that has close connections with General Custer and the history of the 7th Cavarly. Yesterday while filing some data I came across an interesting local newspaper article from Sept 27 1927

It was an announcement of a lecture tour of Chief Red Fox. A google search shows he was an early American native activist and actor. In the article he makes a couple of revelations about Custer and th Battle Of Little Big Horn, that I not heard before

To put Red Fox into context, his uncle was Crazy Horse, who needs no introductions into the events of that day, but his father, "Black Eagle" was one of the Indian commanders.

Red Fox's first claim was to dispell rumours that Custer committed suicide during the battle. I must admit I have never heard this claim before, so I am interested to hear how strong such claims were

The other - and the real point of this post. He claims that Custer was a Mason, I am guessing he means Freemason. He further claims Crazy Horse was also a Mason, and when he saw Custer fall, he specifically instructed his warriors not to scalp Custer out of respect.

Now I have tried Googling anything about either man's Mason connection, but have found nothing. I have found (through secondary sources) That some native Americans were intrigued by the Masonic concept, and saw similarities between their own cultural values and the rituals of the Masons.

So the point of the post. Does anyone think there is something to these claims, is it simply a bit of sensationalism to promote his tour. Or where these common knowledge a hundred years ago and the infromation has faded with time

[kookbreaker]

As I have heard it, the only reason Custer was not scalped was because he had his famous hair cut before the battle. So none of the Indians could identify him to collect his scalp. I doubt very seriously it had anything to do with anyone being a Mason.

[MG1962]

As I have heard it, the only reason Custer was not scalped was because he had his famous hair cut before the battle. So none of the Indians could identify him to collect his scalp. I doubt very seriously it had anything to do with anyone being a Mason.

Yeah I am not trying to sell the idea, and only that the person claiming it seems reasonably credible and he was in a position to know, that has me interested.

All the Indian accounts agree Custer was one of the last left alive on the battle field. Red Fox suggests that he died when the last small knot of defenders was overwhelmed at the end, and there was no real way of knowning in what order people fell

One real mystery of the battle was the break out towards the river. Apparently 20 mounted men broke down the hill and made a last stand in a small glade of trees at the river. Despite intensive archaelogical efforts, and consensus of reports from both the Indians and 7th Cav surviors, no evidence of this phase of the battle has ever been found.

[sackett]

About Custer's body being left intact:

Some Cheyenne women told a story about walking over the battlefield after the fighting was done. They came upon Custer's stripped but otherwise untouched body. They recognised him from when they had seen him in Colorado. Just then some Sioux men came along and were going to mutilate the corpse. The Cheyenne women signed to them that Custer was their relative, so they contented themselves with cutting off the first joint of his left little finger -- a token mutilation, in other words.

My guess is that Custer died so well, shooting, cursing, laughing (the laughter would be in character) that the Indians who actually managed to kill him left his body intact so that they could fight him again in Shadow Country.

[Galileo]

I help out as an archivist at a historical society of a County that has close connections with General Custer and the history of the 7th Cavarly. Yesterday while filing some data I came across an interesting local newspaper article from Sept 27 1927

It was an announcement of a lecture tour of Chief Red Fox. A google search shows he was an early American native activist and actor. In the article he makes a couple of revelations about Custer and th Battle Of Little Big Horn, that I not heard before

To put Red Fox into context, his uncle was Crazy Horse, who needs no introductions into the events of that day, but his father, "Black Eagle" was one of the Indian commanders.

Red Fox's first claim was to dispell rumours that Custer committed suicide during the battle. I must admit I have never heard this claim before, so I am interested to hear how strong such claims were

The other - and the real point of this post. He claims that Custer was a Mason, I am guessing he means Freemason. He further claims Crazy Horse was also a Mason, and when he saw Custer fall, he specifically instructed his warriors not to scalp Custer out of respect.

Now I have tried Googling anything about either man's Mason connection, but have found nothing. I have found (through secondary sources) That some native Americans were intrigued by the Masonic concept, and saw similarities between their own cultural values and the rituals of the Masons.

So the point of the post. Does anyone think there is something to these claims, is it simply a bit of sensationalism to promote his tour. Or where these common knowledge a hundred years ago and the infromation has faded with time

What is this doing in this section? George Armstrong Custer was not a Mason, he was an Armstrong. Crazy Horse was not a Mason, he was an Indian.

George Mason was a Mason.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

As I have heard it, the only reason Custer was not scalped was because he had his famous hair cut before the battle. So none of the Indians could identify him to collect his scalp.

Cuz you know us white people all look alike to them. ;)

[Caustic Logic]

INow I have tried Googling anything about either man's Mason connection, but have found nothing. I have found (through secondary sources) That some native Americans were intrigued by the Masonic concept, and saw similarities between their own cultural values and the rituals of the Masons.

So the point of the post. Does anyone think there is something to these claims, is it simply a bit of sensationalism to promote his tour. Or where these common knowledge a hundred years ago and the infromation has faded with time

Interesting post and point. I don't know or particularly care if Custer was a Mason, and I'd have to wonder if Red Fox was making some things up to emphasize that some Indians were Masons, and had that in common with some enemies. It might help to emphasize this as Native Americans realized the resistance phase was over and it was time to integrate. How did he do? I do a Google search. Judging by the success of his 1970s TV show, Red Fox integrated pretty decently after his speaking tours. ;)

On the Native American interest in Masonic trappings, that is interesting, and a possible insight on RF's story. Maybe they were looking for some point of connection to work out a better deal but made the same mistake CTists often make - confusing their goofy symbolism and ritual as anything relevant to what they actually do.

[MG1962]

Interesting post and point. I don't know or particularly care if Custer was a Mason, and I'd have to wonder if Red Fox was making some things up to emphasize that some Indians were Masons, and had that in common with some enemies. It might help to emphasize this as Native Americans realized the resistance phase was over and it was time to integrate. How did he do? I do a Google search. Judging by the success of his 1970s TV show, Red Fox integrated pretty decently after his speaking tours. ;)

On the Native American interest in Masonic trappings, that is interesting, and a possible insight on RF's story. Maybe they were looking for some point of connection to work out a better deal but made the same mistake CTists often make - confusing their goofy symbolism and ritual as anything relevant to what they actually do.

A couple of interesting points there. Something Red Fox said that I didn't bother mentioning, was the negative view both Crazy Horse and Black Eagle had to the victory at Big Horn. Both realised that rather than forward their cause, they were going to attract a world of pain when the US army came looking for payback.

And I agree that Red Fox was leading from the front when it came to intergration. Even the article in 1927 talks in very glowing terms about the guy, and explains although he is a Native American, his lecture was still very worthwhile to listen too.

To put these comments into context. Whenever Chinese or Mexicans came into town, the newspaper made a point to be scathing about how low of moral and character they were, and that they should be run out ASAP.

On the other hand African Americans seemed to be treated in fairly neutral terms (Which I find refreshing) And the only mention of them is when someone did something news worthy in the town. They also had their own community about 15 miles away. So it could be a case that the locals were used to them, and had learned to trust them in their dealings. But that is pure conjecture on my part.

[fitzgibbon]

The other - and the real point of this post. He claims that Custer was a Mason, I am guessing he means Freemason. He further claims Crazy Horse was also a Mason, and when he saw Custer fall, he specifically instructed his warriors not to scalp Custer out of respect.

Now I have tried Googling anything about either man's Mason connection, but have found nothing. I have found (through secondary sources) That some native Americans were intrigued by the Masonic concept, and saw similarities between their own cultural values and the rituals of the Masons.

You'd probably want to start by contacting the state's Grand Lodge to see about the Masonic connection. If they don't have the information, they'll at least have a better idea of who might. It may be something of a hunt as each state Grand Lodge is separate unto itself and there isn't anything like a central Masonic clearinghouse of information. In any case, if he was a Mason, it wouldn't necessarily be surprising that the information isn't on Google and that particular absence shouldn't be taken as a definite negative. I've found the same problem determining whether Sir Isaac Brock was a Mason.

As for First Nations being Masons, probably the attraction would be the acceptance of all faiths as being on the level thus at once providing a venue where all would be received as equals while removing an avenue of division. Joseph Brant (Thayendanegea) was a well-known First Nation Mason and Tecumseh was reputed to have sat in Adoniram Lodge in Amherstburg (Windsor, Ontario).

[fitzgibbon]

confusing their goofy symbolism and ritual as anything relevant to what they actually do.

Care to enlighten as to what qualifies as "goofy symbolism and ritual"?

[Caustic Logic]

Care to enlighten as to what qualifies as "goofy symbolism and ritual"?

No, I don't know. Just throwing out ideas. I guess it's more Skull and Bones I was thinking of with rituals some people take too seriously.

[fitzgibbon]

No, I don't know. Just throwing out ideas. I guess it's more Skull and Bones I was thinking of with rituals some people take too seriously.

Skull and Bones ≠ Freemasonry, not even remotely

[MG1962]

You'd probably want to start by contacting the state's Grand Lodge to see about the Masonic connection. If they don't have the information, they'll at least have a better idea of who might. It may be something of a hunt as each state Grand Lodge is separate unto itself and there isn't anything like a central Masonic clearinghouse of information. In any case, if he was a Mason, it wouldn't necessarily be surprising that the information isn't on Google and that particular absence shouldn't be taken as a definite negative. I've found the same problem determining whether Sir Isaac Brock was a Mason.

As for First Nations being Masons, probably the attraction would be the acceptance of all faiths as being on the level thus at once providing a venue where all would be received as equals while removing an avenue of division. Joseph Brant (Thayendanegea) was a well-known First Nation Mason and Tecumseh was reputed to have sat in Adoniram Lodge in Amherstburg (Windsor, Ontario).

Thanks for the suggestion. It never entered my head to contact the local Lodge and see if they could shed any light on the topic :o Given Brant predates Crazy Horse by a couple of generations it could well be a line follow.

Well I just popped of a note to the local Lodge (Ya gotta love the internet) I'll let you know what they say

[Brainache]

I read "Son Of The Morning Star" an excellent book about Custer. Don't remember any mention of him being a Mason.

Off topic slightly, but apparently Daniel Boone was a Mason. (A big Mason)

[MG1962]

I read "Son Of The Morning Star" an excellent book about Custer. Don't remember any mention of him being a Mason.

Off topic slightly, but apparently Daniel Boone was a Mason. (A big Mason)

I had a quick look on Amazon, all the reviews compliment the author on the balanced information, but some were concerned they organisation of the book was a bit off

How did you find it?