Confession of a WooWoo or not.

[Scarude]

Yes I am a believer... in precognition and telepathy. I remain skeptical about the nature of God, UFOs, dowsing (which I don't consider paranormal) and mediumship.

I believe, not from any blind faith, but from first hand experiences. My earliest recollection, and my parents like to recount this incident from time to time, was when I was five years old. It was a cool Fall morning and my mother was watching me ride my tricycle in the lane in front of our rural home. Out of the blue I told her that uncle Ralph was coming and that he wanted to borrow some money. My mother seemed confused and dismissed this until when, fifteen minutes later, a car pulls up to the house and the man indeeds asks for some gas money to get home some fifty miles away. She was flabbergasted by the incident. I found out later in life that the man's name was indeed Ralph and he was a distant cousin and not an uncle.

I am now fifty-two and remember the incident like it was yesterday. Since then I have had numerous precognitive experiences that have saved my life in threatening situations.
I feel fortunate being here.

Then there was the night I awoke from a sound sleep sobbing uncontrollably with the realisation that my mother died. I had learned the next day that this had indeed happened. Unexplainable except for telepathy.

Are there any other skeptics who have had unexplainable experiences with the paranormal? I would like to hear your recollections. I remain on the fence, thanx.:p

[Undodog]

I think it was around October/November last year, (i could be wrong) I was sat up late at night playing some videogame or other.
When I had finished I switched the tv off (i was in complete darkness) and was about to get up and go to bed when I suddenly felt as though someone/something was running around on the sofa i was sat on. Like a child stamping it's feet, but movind all around me.
It was rather scary at the time. I turned on the lights..nothing there.
I dont have any children so my initial thought was that my cat was chasing something and going frantic, but then I remembered that he was outside.

Spooky? I thought so at the time until the next morning all was revealed.
I live in Manchester in the UK. (thats a clue)

[Martin]

Originally posted by Undodog
Spooky? I thought so at the time until the next morning all was revealed.
I live in Manchester in the UK. (thats a clue) Ahh...you were drunk?

[Darat]

Originally posted by Scarude
Yes I am a believer... in precognition and telepathy. I remain skeptical about the nature of God, UFOs, dowsing (which I don't consider paranormal) and mediumship.

…snip…

Then there was the night I awoke from a sound sleep sobbing uncontrollably with the realisation that my mother died. I had learned the next day that this had indeed happened. Unexplainable except for telepathy.

Are there any other skeptics who have had unexplainable experiences with the paranormal? I would like to hear your recollections. I remain on the fence, thanx.:p

Welcome to the forum. If you've been lurking for a while then I'm sure you know that your post will be viewed as "anecdotal" so whilst powerfully compelling to you probably isn't that compelling to many other people posting here.

One other point have you considered that you may not be as "on the fence" as you think you are?

After all it is a very strong statement that you make when you say "Unexplainable except for telepathy." When you consider what you are saying is that something we can't define, consistently describe, and can mean so many different things to so many people (and have never been able to repeatedly test for etc.) 'must be true'. Doesn't sound like someone sitting on the fence but some one who has made up his or her mind .

[Undodog]

Heheh. Thanks Martin: Location SCOTLAND :D

[Hamish]

Originally posted by Undodog
I think it was around October/November last year, (i could be wrong) I was sat up late at night playing some videogame or other.
When I had finished I switched the tv off (i was in complete darkness) and was about to get up and go to bed when I suddenly felt as though someone/something was running around on the sofa i was sat on. Like a child stamping it's feet, but movind all around me.
It was rather scary at the time. I turned on the lights..nothing there.
I dont have any children so my initial thought was that my cat was chasing something and going frantic, but then I remembered that he was outside.

Spooky? I thought so at the time until the next morning all was revealed.
I live in Manchester in the UK. (thats a clue)

If it's the same thing I experienced then I was in Leicester at the time and it woke me up.

Of course, Manchester is a bit further from Birmingham so the effect would be more subtle and to UK residents like us, completely unfamiliar and unexpected.

I'm referring of course to the relatively insignificant earthquake which hit the UK last year.

Am I right?

[Undodog]

Correct, Hamish. :biggrin:
Apart from Manchester had its own tremors.

[Abdul Alhazred]

I, too, have a confession. :p

As you know, I am an atheist, but I have this guy as my roommate:

http://www.mainframe.cl/mf/imagenes/fantasia/cthulhu.jpg

and I keep summoning these foul things:

http://www.floatinggifts.com/images/29195l.jpg

[Abdul Alhazred]

But seriously folks. :p

I have had precognitive dreams myself.

Many times I have dreamed that I had to pee, and when I woke up I really did.

Do I get the million dollar prize? :p

[bratok]

Littke kids do have their "paranormal" senses working much, much better then grownups.

Who has little kids ( 3-5 years old ), make an experiment - take two sweets, red and green, for example, and aks him/her to guess in which hand is which sweet. In most cases he'll answer right. :)

Many times I have dreamed that I had to pee, and when I woke up I really did. Do I get the million dollar prize?

No, that doesn't qualify. If you would be dreaming that you are peeing and, upon wakeing up, you would realise that it's so... maybe then. :D


Thanx!

[Corey]

Welcome to the forum Scardude. I don't think you'll be surprised or offended if I don't take your story at face value. As I wasn't there and don't know any of the cirucstances surrounding the events, whether or not you remembered the childhood experience before being told of it (and then, consequently "remembering"), if your mother was ill before she died, if she was in the hospital, if it was an unexpected death...all of that. Anyway, I hope I'd be someone respected for not immediately believing everything everyone told me with no direct knowledge of it.

I have had a few experiences in my life that I can't explain. I try to also take into account the (often dismissed or given waaay too much significance) power of coincidence on the human mind, as well as the fact that we don't always consciously remember outside factors that could contribute to some unexplained happenings and feelings. A few examples spring to mind.


When I was about 4 years old my grandfather died. He died in the afternoon, suffering a heart attack after working in the yard. My parents didn't tell me that he died right away, they did of course no about it themselves and were of course very grieved but kept it from me for a while until they could decide how to explain it to me (my first experience with a death in the family). The next morning after the day he died I woke up and I asked my parents why my grandparents were over the previous night. They had no clue what I was talking about and I explained that my grandfather had been there and came into my room and said goodnight to me. Of course they were shocked and assumed I saw his ghost. Now, this incident (my perception of it at least) did happen, but I remember more of it from my parents' recollection than my own. The truth of the matter is I have no doubt it was a dream, but even still some people see it as an omen of some sort. The thing I've thought about at length is the fact that my parents were most likely talking about my grandfather and grandmother (without mentioning the death) as it was a HUGE matter of concern, but they didn't want me to know what was going on. This could have influenced me to have a dream about my grandparents...and keep in mind, there was no indication of death, my grandfather saying "goodbye" or anything close to it, just that my grandparents were over the house and my grandfather came in and said goodnight to me.

I don't take that incident to mean anything more than the simplist explanation, I don't ascribe any supernatural meaning to it. However, my father is very much into the paranormal and spiritualism and tells the story as "my dad died and we didn't tell my son and that night my dad appeared to him and said goodbye", which is not only a second hand account, but nothing close to my perception of the dream I had. I never thought it to be a real occurance as I thought I heard my grandmother talking to my mom and dad in the living room, which didn't happen.


Just a little insight into a similar type incident, I have more that are far easier to show as having no supernatural basis. Like my mom attributing a dream about my wife being pregnant, which we thought she was last month and there was much discussion about, to the announcement of her sister's pregnancy which we told her about the day after she had the dream.

Again, welcome, hopefully you'll have a lot of good discussions here.

[Corey]

Originally posted by bratok
Littke kids do have their "paranormal" senses working much, much better then grownups.

Who has little kids ( 3-5 years old ), make an experiment - take two sweets, red and green, for example, and aks him/her to guess in which hand is which sweet. In most cases he'll answer right. :)


Thanx!


Most of the time? Like say....1 out of every 2?

[bratok]

Originally posted by Corey
Most of the time? Like say....1 out of every 2? Find a kid and make an experiment. 8-9 out of 10 I suppose.

[Scarude]

Corey, thanx for the input. The incident I related was from memory; I even remember what clothes my mother was wearing that morning. And surely its not delusional. As for my mother's death, it was totally without warning (she was in perfect health) as she drowned while on vacation in Martinique. These are just two instances that I cannot explain rationally.

Thanx again.

[Darat]

Originally posted by Scarude
Corey, thanx for the input. The incident I related was from memory; I even remember what clothes my mother was wearing that morning. And surely its not delusional. As for my mother's death, it was totally without warning (she was in perfect health) as she drowned while on vacation in Martinique. These are just two instances that I cannot explain rationally.

Thanx again.

You state "And surely its not delusional.", why couldn't it be delusional or just misremembered?


And here is one for “spooky” coincidence do you know that both you and bratok both sign of with a “Thanx” spelt incorrectly the same way? Now that could be a coincidence or could it be some spooky connection between you and bratok? ;)

[Starrman]

Corey, thanx for the input. The incident I related was from memory; I even remember what clothes my mother was wearing that morning.

This is a nice illustration of why anecdotes do not help us. You may remember the clothes your mother was wearing, but there is no way to prove that you remember correctly. All you can do is say 'I am sure I remember correctly' until you are blue in the face, but other than your insistance we can not know that you are not mistaken.

Have you ever been sure you left the car keys somewhere, and they ended up finding them somewhere else? I really think you are overestimating the accuracy of human memory.

[Martin]

Originally posted by Starrman
I really think you are overestimating the accuracy of human memoryIndeed. I distinctly remember watching an old episode of Dr Who, in which the layout of the TARDIS was very different to the one I'm used to. It was from the Jon Pertwee era, when the control room had furniture, and wallpaper and stuff. In particular, I remember the colour scheme - the wallpaper was a very nice shade of green, for example. I saw the same episode repeated about a week later - in black and white. I still distinctly remember watching that very scene in colour, despite the fact that it couldn't possibly have happened.

Or maybe the psychic pixie people used their psychic pixie powers to add colour the first time I saw it. Because, as we all know, memory is infallible...

[geni]

Originally posted by bratok
Find a kid and make an experiment. 8-9 out of 10 I suppose.

Translation kids are more liklr to cheat than adults.

[Scarude]

All of your points are well taken... it is anecdotal and cannot be proven. My memory serves me well as this incident had such a profound effect on me even at the tender age of five; to predict something and have it actually happen. Awesome!

As an aside... I have noticed that a lot of you guys and gals like to poke fun at the newbies, it is all good... taken in good spirit.

[Scarude]

All of your points are well taken... it is anecdotal and cannot be proven. My memory serves me well as this incident had such a profound effect on me even at the tender age of five; to predict something and have it actually happen. Awesome!

As an aside... I have noticed that a lot of you guys and gals like to poke fun at the newbies, it is all good... taken in good spirit.

[wayrad]

Originally posted by Corey



Most of the time? Like say....1 out of every 2? I could do much better than that when I was a kid...assuming the person holding the items knew which was which, and knew which one I intended to call. A simple matter of reading subtle cues, I assume. I've heard that animals can be trained to do similar tricks.

[El Greco]

Brain circuits may malfunction for a while and register imagination or current events as memories. It has happened to me too. But Scarude also says:

Since then I have had numerous precognitive experiences that have saved my life in threatening situations

This is different.... like an X-files episode

[Starrman]

Scarude,

Could you give us a specific example of your alleged powers saving your life?

[Starrman]

Find a kid and make an experiment. 8-9 out of 10 I suppose.

Who has kids at home? This should be a slam dunk to demonstrate as ludicrous, if properly double-blinded of course.

[roger]

Originally posted by bratok
Find a kid and make an experiment. 8-9 out of 10 I suppose. Sounds dead easy to test, and it'd net you $1 million for the effort. Go for it.

[Psiload]

Originally posted by bratok
Find a kid and make an experiment. 8-9 out of 10 I suppose.

A lovely, muted shade of pink, with wisps of purple.

That's what color I'm guessing the sky is in your world.

[Tompet]

Scarude, how much time elapsed between your subsequent (post-childhood) premonitions and the actual events?

[Corey]

I'd like to hear an example of one of the instances in which your life was saved due to prognostication as well Scardude. In other words...you felt you shouldn't get on a plane in 2 weeks, cancelled your flight and you crashed...or you were about to step off the curb and then waited an extra few second because something didn't "feel right" and a car drove through the red light or something. If it was something unkowable, verifiable and well ahead of time, I think it's something to consider and look into. Though, as it's been stated, you can't do that with anecdotes and there's really know way for us to validate any claim you could make based purely on an anecdote (nothing personal against you). If it was something that happened within a matter of seconds or minutes I also wouldn't discount natural unconscious instinct. Sights, sounds, smells and physical feelings (vibrations through the street from traffic, etc) or other outside factors that could serve as a warning of something dangerous.

If you really wanted to take a skeptical look at your own perceptions. Write down every time you have a prediction or a precognitive dream. Write down when you have it, the content of the prediction, down to the most specific details you can recall. Keep track of them and see how many of them come to fruition. If you think one of them has, write down when and what happened down to the most specific details. Then take a look at how specifically accurate your predictions were. If your prediction is something like "I'm going to get a visitor with dark hair this week", well then that's not much of a prediction and if you can consider it objectively you'll be able to answer to yourself honestly if you are making a real, specific prediction that you couldn't forsee or guess easily. If you predict "A yellow sedan with a license plate number of _____ will hit a fireplug on the corner of 4th and Brown St on Tuesday in the morning, it will be foggy" and it happens, then you've got a somewhat accurate prediction (unless you live in a town that's always foggy with horrible roads and a notoriously bad driver in a yellow car , hehe).


Anyway, I don't think anyone can have a real fruitfull debate with you on this forum about the validity of your claims. However, you can talk to people who may give you insight into looking into your own thoughts, emotions, reactions and perceptions in a a reasonably objective, logical way that can help you to balance out your views on certain paranormal subjects (If dowsing doesn't work, why does telepathy? Why don't mediums?, etc...just examples from what you've posted)



Just so you know, newbies DO get ribbed (I'm fairly new myself)...but newbies, even if they aren't complete skeptics, get treated a lot better if they're reasonable and articulate (as you seem to be) as opposed to being a troll and just resorting to childishly repeating their views over and over without much explanation or ellaboration or contribution to any sort of adult discussion.

[Scarude]

Originally posted by Starrman
Scarude,

Could you give us a specific example of your alleged powers saving your life?

Starrman, I will try to give you one example. This incident happened around 1976 when I was about 23 years old and somewhat on the wild side. I was living in Delaware,USA at the time with my wife. My parents came down from Massachusetts for a weekend visit. During their stay we went sightseeing in my Celica (smallish sportscar) and my father was in the front with me and the gals in the cramped back seat.

We drove to a beach area that I had never been to and drove along a large empty parking lot. There was a side road toward the surf side which went upward slightly over a small knoll. My immediate impulse was to gun the accelerator and have a bit of fun, assuming the road led to a lower parking lot.

As I neared the knoll, a voice in my head said STOP! and I visualized the car careening off a precipice. Needless to say I did stop the car and my father and I got out. We both looked down at a sheer drop of some fifty or sixty feet. We were both to shaken to talk about it and didn't tell the women about our brush with certain death. There were no warning signs or Jersey barrier to prevent such a catastrophe. We contacted the local Police Department to warn them of the dangerous situation.

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by wayrad
I could do much better than that when I was a kid...assuming the person holding the items knew which was which, and knew which one I intended to call. A simple matter of reading subtle cues, I assume. I've heard that animals can be trained to do similar tricks.

i believe one of the Auguste Dupin stories (Purloined Letter, perhaps) speaks of this, about a child who could guess which hand another child was hiding a marble in by reading the childs facial expressions.

[Starrman]

As I neared the knoll, a voice in my head said STOP! and I visualized the car careening off a precipice. Needless to say I did stop the car and my father and I got out. We both looked down at a sheer drop of some fifty or sixty feet. We were both to shaken to talk about it and didn't tell the women about our brush with certain death. There were no warning signs or Jersey barrier to prevent such a catastrophe. We contacted the local Police Department to warn them of the dangerous situation.

Excellent. Every time I go up a hill and I cannot see the other side I think the same thing. What if by some catastrophe the earth on the other side of this hill is gone! If I was in a situation like yours, where it was not a clearly marked road and more of a path off of a parking lot, there is nothing precognative about telling yourself to stop in that situation because it might be dangerous. Any person can look at that and think, 'I don't know what is over that knoll, I'd better not just speed over it like a loon.' The difference is attibuting the voice in your head to some mystical power rather than your own brain doing what it does best - surviving.

It is not like you were just standing there and thought, 'Oh my god, I should move three steps to the right' and then a piece of the space station crashed right where you just were. You may have been prompted (maybe subconciously) by visual cues in the landscape and reacted.

I'm sure we will disagree, but I don't see anything remotely paranormal going on in this example.

[Rolfe]

Bratok is demented, but needs to be called on that ridiculous claim.

Be fair, Scaruse is just relating what he thinks he remembers, and I think it's fair to be polite and not instantly accuse him of being a few sandwiches short of a picnic without a bit more evidence of foam at the lips.

I had a very odd experience when I was a teenager (discussed to death in this thread here (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27326)). I have no idea what that was all about. Common sense tells me that either a faulty memory or a memory of a dream is the explanation, but neither of these explanations really convinces me deep down.

It's just interesting to hear what other people have had happened to them, assuming they're not just yanking our chains by making it all up.

Rolfe.

[Scarude]

Thanks Rolfe. I am merely relating anecdotes of what I consider paranormal experiences. I am not intending to prove anything. And I would like to hear of other's experiences if they are willing to share. Thanx.

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Starrman
I'm sure we will disagree, but I don't see anything remotely paranormal going on in this example.

Me too. Scarude sounds like an honest guy, so I was really curious to learn about his experiences, but nonetheless I was disappointed...

Like Mulder:

I WANT TO BELIEVE

but this doesn't mean I'd believe that easily :D

[LFTKBS]

Worst creepy paranormal story ever: a woman is pregnant, about seven months into it. She has a two year old, as well.

One day the kid comes out of her room, puts her hand on her mother's belly, and says "Baby dead."

Freaked out mom goes to ob/syn, and sure enough, the baby is.

I was told this by an ex-gf - friend of a friend, wouldn't you know. But I haven't run across it elsewhere . . .

P.S. It's a pretty horrible story, I know. Sorry.

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Scarude
I am merely relating anecdotes of what I consider paranormal experiences.There's where we part company. I'm not prepared to assign "paranormal" as a default explanation for anything not immediately explicable. For myself, I have the ichneumon fly story pegged as "don't know". If reason cannot provide an explanation, then one simply has to leave the facts alone and not try to force unprovable "explanations" on them.

If you are having repeated incidents in this category, I would try telling people about your "premonition" in advance of it happening. Best of all, find a sceptic to tell, and encourage him to keep notes.

Rolfe.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by bratok
Littke kids do have their "paranormal" senses working much, much better then grownups.

Who has little kids ( 3-5 years old ), make an experiment - take two sweets, red and green, for example, and aks him/her to guess in which hand is which sweet. In most cases he'll answer right. :)

I bet Kittynh can set up a couple of double blind procedures.

And I think we'll all be quite surprised when we learn these kids posess no psychic power.

[El Greco]

Originally posted by LFTKBS
Worst creepy paranormal story ever: a woman is pregnant, about seven months into it. She has a two year old, as well.

One day the kid comes out of her room, puts her hand on her mother's belly, and says "Baby dead."

Freaked out mom goes to ob/syn, and sure enough, the baby is.


Oh, don't tell me more. I know... the 2 year-old's name was Damien (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0075005/), and we all know what happened next...

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Martin
Indeed. I distinctly remember watching an old episode of Dr Who, in which the layout of the TARDIS was very different to the one I'm used to. It was from the Jon Pertwee era, when the control room had furniture, and wallpaper and stuff. In particular, I remember the colour scheme - the wallpaper was a very nice shade of green, for example. I saw the same episode repeated about a week later - in black and white. I still distinctly remember watching that very scene in colour, despite the fact that it couldn't possibly have happened.

Or maybe the psychic pixie people used their psychic pixie powers to add colour the first time I saw it. Because, as we all know, memory is infallible...

The 3rd doctor was just about all in colour apart from about the first 2 or 3 stories I think. Anyway, some of the episodes might be in B&W shown many years later, even though originally screened in colour. You see the BBC never kept most of the old Doctor Who stories because of reasons of space. They had to go and seek and get recordings off people who had recorded the original episodes. But maybe some early video recorders only recorded in B&W because I think there are some Pertwee Doctor who stories where some of the episodes are in colour and some in B&W! So conceivably could be 2 very same episodes, one in colour one in B&W, but extremely implausible. So I would ask you, are you sure it was the very same episode?

[wayrad]

Originally posted by EdipisReks


i believe one of the Auguste Dupin stories (Purloined Letter, perhaps) speaks of this, about a child who could guess which hand another child was hiding a marble in by reading the childs facial expressions. Interesting; I don't remember that one. It's been a good many years since I read Poe.

I have the feeling body language and muscle tension are also large components, although I didn't analyze it too much at the time. Made a good parlor trick though.

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by wayrad
Interesting; I don't remember that one. It's been a good many years since I read Poe.


it wasn't a main part of the story, just an anecdote that Dupin told during it. it may have been another story this was in; it has been a long time since i read Poe, too.

[Zep]

Just as a counter-example to Scarude's "certain memory," I too have long had specific memories of some memorable incidents from my childhood that I was absolutely certain happened in a particular sequence and with particular people present. One or two of these involved great danger to myself, so they were certainly extremely memorable for me.

However only a few months ago I was talking about these incidents with my mum, who was one of those I remember being present at the time, and she assured me that these incidents did NOT happen as I remembered them. She remembers the incidents clearly in her mind also (so they DID happen), but certain pertinent factors were in a different sequence, did NOT happen, happened DIFFERENTLY, or the people I remembered were not actually there or were not those people. In other words, her memory of an incident we were both in is similar BUT IS SIGNIFICANTLY NOT THE SAME as mine.

So the situation is that either her memory is faulty, mine is faulty, or we are both faulty (and it happened different to both our memories). And my mum and I are both reasonably sane and articulate people so it is hardly likely we used the same hallucinagenic drugs.

The upshot of all this is that reliance on human memory for distant events is why we refer to such accounts as anecdotal. They can be pointers to events and phenomena, but they in no way constitute proofs.

[Theodore Kurita]

Originally posted by Undodog
I think it was around October/November last year, (i could be wrong) I was sat up late at night playing some videogame or other.
When I had finished I switched the tv off (i was in complete darkness) and was about to get up and go to bed when I suddenly felt as though someone/something was running around on the sofa i was sat on. Like a child stamping it's feet, but movind all around me.
It was rather scary at the time. I turned on the lights..nothing there.
I dont have any children so my initial thought was that my cat was chasing something and going frantic, but then I remembered that he was outside.

Spooky? I thought so at the time until the next morning all was revealed.
I live in Manchester in the UK. (thats a clue)


Hypersensitivity...

Most likely because of the amount of adrenaline in your system after you finished playing the video game...


Don't forget kids...

Video Games can turn people into adrenaline junkies. ;)

[Aussie Thinker]

Scarude,

I don’t think you are a woo woo.. just a member of the band of humans that either has faulty or edited memories !

Lets look at your 3 incidences

Out of the blue I told her that uncle Ralph was coming and that he wanted to borrow some money. My mother seemed confused and dismissed this until when, fifteen minutes later, a car pulls up to the house and the man indeeds asks for some gas money to get home some fifty miles away. She was flabbergasted by the incident. I found out later in life that the man's name was indeed Ralph and he was a distant cousin and not an uncle.

Maybe people often stopped and asked for money.. you parents were wealthy or generous or you lived in a spot where people often ran out of gas ?. Maybe you were thinking about someone showing up and later thought you said it. Not well you found out the mans name LATER.. it is very human to edit memories and include information that comes later.

Then there was the night I awoke from a sound sleep sobbing uncontrollably with the realisation that my mother died. I had learned the next day that this had indeed happened. Unexplainable except for telepathy.

VERY common. Your mother was on Vacation in a foreign country. You were anxious about her. Try this for a memory test… How many time did you DREAM about someone dying to wake and find them perfectly healthy ? A HIT on your mother while tragic is just a coincidence.

As I neared the knoll, a voice in my head said STOP! and I visualized the car careening off a precipice. Needless to say I did stop the car and my father and I got out. We both looked down at a sheer drop of some fifty or sixty feet. We were both to shaken to talk about it and didn't tell the women about our brush with certain death. There were no warning signs or Jersey barrier to prevent such a catastrophe. We contacted the local Police Department to warn them of the dangerous situation.

Just normal human caution. You attribute it to some strange mental ability. I attribute it to you brain saying.. “hang on I dunno what’s over the other side of that rise.. better go easy”

You can avoid being a woo woo by just discounting the woo woo explanation and coming up with a rational one.

[Chad Noles]

Scarude,since you experience what you think is precognition,you can post any new impressions here so that we can see what happens.Try to give as much detail as possible,such as the time,or day of the occurance,and any exact information that can be cross referenced thru outside sources.

[Grommitt]

Originally posted by Scarude

Since then I have had numerous precognitive experiences that have saved my life in threatening situations.Are we to believe that you have been in "numerous" situations where you would most certainly have died had you not heard the voice in your head?

How do you come to be in these situations? How many is "numerous"? What is your definition of "life threatening"?

Unless you lived in Cambodia or you were a bomb disposal technician in Lebenon, I find this hard to take seriously.

Your driving-the-car-over-the -cliff story just indicates that you had a last second flash of common sense. Hardly evidence of precognition.

Since your claim of having been in numerous life threatening situations that were resolved through paranormal means is an extrordinary claim, and your claim contains vague and unexplained terms, it is highly suspect.

Save the spooky ghost stories for around the campfire. The Net is full of this stuff. Why waste bandwidth with more of the same?

And I would like to hear of other's experiences if they are willing to share. Thanx.When I started to read your OP I was skeptical. Now I'm skeptical and bored.

[Darat]

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
...snip...

You can avoid being a woo woo by just discounting the woo woo explanation and coming up with a rational one.

I do find it strange that we see posters here time and time again who are certain that there can be no other explanation then "X". (Scarude's "Unexplainable except for telepathy" is a just a recent example.)

Why do people seem to almost insist on an explanation for everything?

Is there something wrong in just saying "Not got a clue about this" or "I don't know"? Lots of things have happened to me that I can't tell you why or how! (Some have included alcohol but I'm sure that was unrelated.)

[Zep]

Originally posted by Darat

I do find it strange that we see posters here time and time again who are certain that there can be no other explanation then "X". (Scarude's "Unexplainable except for telepathy" is a just a recent example.)

Why do people seem to almost insist on an explanation for everything?

Is there something wrong in just saying "Not got a clue about this" or "I don't know"? Lots of things have happened to me that I can't tell you why or how! (Some have included alcohol but I'm sure that was unrelated.) I agree with this entirely. But that necessarily means that the"woo-woo" explanation needs to be discarded too. Absence of any supporting information for a specific explanation means that ALL subsequent explanations are technically guesses.

However, it is possible to posit certain explanations and to "grade" them according to other information we may know that may be applicable from other sources. For example, most of us who drive cars will learn that it is sensible to not drive quickly and carelessly onto somewhere where the road is not certain or visible (over a blind rise, or through deep water) - it's a simple and sensible and learned precaution that could be said to be "second nature" to us. So a possible explanation for Scarude's situation is the cutting in of this learned safe-driving behaviour without requiring actual concious deliberation on his part.

And this is actually a far, far more likely explanation than "guardian angels" or "psychic precognition," and it has an incredible amount of evidence to support it. Such learned behaviour is taught to us from childhood - good manners, use of writing implements, safe driving, etc, etc.

And for the sake of this argument, I would suggest that the next most likely explanation was plain luck! Further, if you list all the possible reasons for this lucky escape and ranked them according to their likelihood, the supernatural explanations always rank very low in probability. And yet these are the explanations that people turn to initially. Strange - I think it says more about learned belief systems than critical thinking, myself.

{edited to clarify a line}

[Undodog]

I had a bizarre experience as a young lad.
I was sat at home alone while my parents went to a wedding.
From upstairs in my room I heard the front door open (but not close again), my dad walked in, shouted upstairs "the wedding isn't till three o'clock" and go into the living room.
I immediately got up and went downstairs to find the door still closed and no one was around. Also it was around five-past three and the wedding was a good drive away.
It’s a mystery to this day.

I’m happy that there’s no explanation for this but it’s scary to think that if my dad had died that morning I would probably be on the other side of the fence preaching about ghosts and paying some charlatan a fortune to get me back in touch with him.

The fact they are still both alive and well tells me that it was just my mind playing tricks and that if my father had died on the same day as this incident, it would only have been a coincidence.
An improbable coincidence that would have changed my view of the world, but a coincidence none the less.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Undodog
I had a bizarre experience as a young lad.
I was sat at home alone while my parents went to a wedding.
From upstairs in my room I heard the front door open (but not close again), my dad walked in, shouted upstairs "the wedding isn't till three o'clock" and go into the living room.
I immediately got up and went downstairs to find the door still closed and no one was around. Also it was around five-past three and the wedding was a good drive away.
It’s a mystery to this day.

I’m happy that there’s no explanation for this but it’s scary to think that if my dad had died that morning I would probably be on the other side of the fence preaching about ghosts and paying some charlatan a fortune to get me back in touch with him.

The fact they are still both alive and well tells me that it was just my mind playing tricks and that if my father had died on the same day as this incident, it would only have been a coincidence.
An improbable coincidence that would have changed my view of the world, but a coincidence none the less.

Yeah, I had loads of these types of experience when I was very young. Basically I never experience anything unusual now.

My own suspicion is that children do have these experiences much more often, and maybe these experiences either originate or are facilitate by the right hemisphere of the brain, and as we get older the left brain suppresses these experiences. Do these experiences represent anything external, or are they wholly generated from within? Hmmmm . . difficult one. I just wish I still had these experiences! Very tentatively I would guess the former, but really very unsure. These are experiences like yours I'm, talking about. Other experiences I feel more confident that were "paranormal".

Guess I'm different from both the skeptic and "woo woo" in these matters who always express certainty. :)

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Interesting Ian

(snip)... My own suspicion is that children do have these experiences much more often, and maybe these experiences either originate or are facilitate by the right hemisphere of the brain, and as we get older the left brain suppresses these experiences....(/snip)
(snip)...Guess I'm different from both the skeptic and "woo woo" in these matters who always express certainty. :)
It seems you have an uninformed view of brain functioning and have bought into the false left brain- right brain myth.
And I'm glad that you admit that you are not a skeptic.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

It seems you have an uninformed view of brain functioning and have bought into the false left brain- right brain myth.
And I'm glad that you admit that you are not a skeptic.

I have never claimed I am a skeptic. I am a sceptic ie scepticism in the original meaning of the term.

What do you mean a myth? Not from everything I've ever read.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Interesting Ian
What do you mean a myth? Not from everything I've ever read.
"As for the theory that some people are left brained or that others are right brained, we simply have no evidence to support that claim. The idea that a highly creative person must be relying mostly on their right hemisphere is merely a guess based on that person's behavior, not on measurement of brain activity. It is an example of neuromythology - making guesses about the brain to account for an observation about behavior."
James Kalat, noted neurophysiologist and textbook author, in Introduction to Psychology, 5th ed, 1999, p. 99.
You could probably find a used copy on Amazon for a few bob.

[MRC_Hans]

On the premonition of the death of a person. Like dreaming about it. To happen to dream that your mother dies and then find out that she did seems to be an impossible coincidence, but it is not if you think about it. Of all the people on Earth, how many will, on any night, dream that a relative has died? How many relaives will die that night? Some hits are bound to happen, but only those who had a hit will tell about it. The rest will forget it as quickly as they can.

Hans

[Corey]

Well...I can't speak for any of the other stories, but from what say about the incident of not driving off a cliff at the last minute I'd agree that's just typical common sense. Your first thought was to gun the gas, the second was to stop and consider that you didn't know what was on the other side of hill...I wouldn't call that precognition by any stretch.

I think that the statement that you're not skeptic or "woo woo" because you don't uniformly believe or disbelieve in the paranormal is a bit off base. I doubt (or hope) that there's no person who believes in EVERY paranormal claim and a skeptic isn't one who patently disbelieves in everything paranormal. It just means that you only believe in what can be proven to you in a reasonable and logical way and different people have different standards to that effect. There are varied types of both people, obviously.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Corey
Well...I can't speak for any of the other stories, but from what say about the incident of not driving off a cliff at the last minute I'd agree that's just typical common sense. Your first thought was to gun the gas, the second was to stop and consider that you didn't know what was on the other side of hill...I wouldn't call that precognition by any stretch.

I think that the statement that you're not skeptic or "woo woo" because you don't uniformly believe or disbelieve in the paranormal is a bit off base. I doubt (or hope) that there's no person who believes in EVERY paranormal claim and a skeptic isn't one who patently disbelieves in everything paranormal. It just means that you only believe in what can be proven to you in a reasonable and logical way and different people have different standards to that effect. There are varied types of both people, obviously.

The world is very complex but psychologically people like simplicity. People tend to gravitate towards extreme positions on most issues. It is easier to grasp and try to understand the world in that way. The subject of the paranormal is certainly no exception in this sense! Generally people therefore either see paranormal phenomena everywhere, even though more conventional explanations may be much more reasonable, or, in the case of skeptics, they tend to take it as an axiomatic premise that obviously this alleged phenomena cannot be what it appears to be, and therefore come up with various explanations in accordance with this implicit premise.

I'm afraid the rationality of human beings is grossly exaggerated.

[Valiant Dancer]

Originally posted by Scarude


Starrman, I will try to give you one example. This incident happened around 1976 when I was about 23 years old and somewhat on the wild side. I was living in Delaware,USA at the time with my wife. My parents came down from Massachusetts for a weekend visit. During their stay we went sightseeing in my Celica (smallish sportscar) and my father was in the front with me and the gals in the cramped back seat.


snip



I had an experience where I was coming up to an intersection around midnight. The intersection felt "wrong". (Sorry, don't know any other way of putting it) I stopped even though I had a green light. The corner I was coming to was a nearly blind one and I had stopped in time to avoid a late model four door with no lights on zipping through the intersection. I have looked at that corner several times and still can't figure out why I knew the car was coming.

All I know is that something in my subconscious saved my life. (I was driving a 1991 Geo Metro. The car appeared to be of the 1976 Monte Carlo variety. The car would have hit the drivers side of my car rendering me denaturizing flesh.) At the time, I thought it was a message from the devine. Now, I think it is unexplained.

[Corey]

Originally posted by Interesting Ian


The world is very complex but psychologically people like simplicity. People tend to gravitate towards extreme positions on most issues. It is easier to grasp and try to understand the world in that way. The subject of the paranormal is certainly no exception in this sense! Generally people therefore either see paranormal phenomena everywhere, even though more conventional explanations may be much more reasonable, or, in the case of skeptics, they tend to take it as an axiomatic premise that obviously this alleged phenomena cannot be what it appears to be, and therefore come up with various explanations in accordance with this implicit premise.

I'm afraid the rationality of human beings is grossly exaggerated.


I agree with a lot of what you just said, for once, Ian. The rationality of human beings IS grossly exaggerated, because emotions have a huge impact on our immediate thought process. While emotions are a valuable part of the human experience, I tend to think most "rational" decision are made apart from emotion (read: not in the heat of the moment), or at least by balancing them with some sort of consistently/previously held ethic or moral.

I do take one exception to your statement however. I'm not going to argue that some skeptics do operate off a purely reactionary impulse (raised christian, become atheist, those sorts of things) and will take the "intellectual" contrary position to ANY paranormal topic or spiritual idea. However, to me, those people are petty much exactly the same as those who see god or the paranormal or what have you everywhere as well. They hold their beliefs simply from an emotional/reactionary basis and the motivations and thought process are the same, just of a different variety. My personal reasoning behind skepticism is simply observing, comparing to other experiences and trying to consider all the factors that form my immediate impressions as well as the emotions attached to the situation and try to understand why I feel certain things and how consistent my initial conclusion is with others I've come to previously. It's a system of observation and evaluation, subject to constant revision as I gather new knowledge of things and insights into my how and why my own emotions effect my thinking.

I don't think a skeptic should think they are always completely rational or aren't subject to their own emotional reactions, but they should be aware of them and try to keep a seperation or appropriate balance between the two when considering something.

[Dragonrock]

My paranormal anecdote happened when I was about 15. A friend of my older brother joined the army. This was in the time before throw away calling cards so the only way to contact family was by collect call. One day I was home alone and he called. The operator said "Collect call from John to Tony, will you accept the charges?" I meant to tell them that my brother wasn't home, but what I said was "No, he's not here." All the operator heard was "no" so she disconnected the call.

I felt very guilty about this and one day I was sitting around, alone again, remembering this call and wondering if John thought that we didn't like him when the phone rang. I answered it and it was a collect call from John. I enthusiastically said "yes!" and promptly found that it was a wrong number. I didn't know this John.

The paranormal explination of this is I used my magical powers to cause John to call collect, I just missed and hit the wrong John.

The real reason for this was I had been thinking about this regularly for months because I thought that John would never talk to us again because he thought we did not want to hear from him. If anything related to the name "John" had occured during that time I would have remembered it strongly because the name was something I was thinking about regularly.

[Morwen]

Re the Poe story about the child...

I don't remember the exact story, but I do remember that kid. He always won at a game in which you had to guess how many coins your opponent was hiding, plus your own, or something like that. Something akin to rock, paper, scissors. Dupin was saying that the kid almost always won. When he asked the kid how he did it, the kid said that he tried to mold his features to imitate as closely as possible the expression of the other boy, and then wait to see which kinds of thoughts or strategy would spring into his mind, supposedly triggered by that facial expression. Then Dupin spent a couple of paragraphs praising this kid's psychological acumen. Which of course I didn't get, and I think it's nonsense, but I like Poe nonetheless.

[Corey]

Scardude...

I was thinking about the first story you related, from your childhood. Here is my breakdown of it (if you feel inclined to clarify any of the points I bring up, please do), to illustrate how flimsy anecdotes are in general.


The story:

(snip) I was five years old. It was a cool Fall morning and my mother was watching me ride my tricycle in the lane in front of our rural home. Out of the blue I told her that uncle Ralph was coming and that he wanted to borrow some money. My mother seemed confused and dismissed this until when, fifteen minutes later, a car pulls up to the house and the man indeeds asks for some gas money to get home some fifty miles away. She was flabbergasted by the incident. I found out later in life that the man's name was indeed Ralph and he was a distant cousin and not an uncle.


1) The Prediction: That "Uncle Ralph" was coming and that he wanted to borrow some money.

Ok, first off, is there an Uncle Ralph in your family that you knew previous to this experience? As you say that the man who came was confirmed as being named Ralph your prediction would be half right if there is/was no "Uncle Ralph" (even if Uncle were a term on endearment used for a family friend, etc)...however if there is/was an "Uncle Ralph" your prediction is completely wrong because HE did not show up, just someone named "Ralph" (a reasonable coincidence, however unlikely. The popularity of the name Ralph in your area, the area where the man was from in people of his age would probably have some significance as well. IE, if his name were John it wouldn't be much of a prediction at all).

2) The Result: 15 minutes after you uttered your "prediction" a man drove up to the house and asked for gas money to get home, about 50 miles away.

A man did indeed arrive and asked for money. You say that you discovered the man's name was indeed Ralph "later in life"...how much later? How did you discover this? Was he known to your parents at the time of his arrival or was he a stranger? If he was a stranger and only later was his name discovered how was the connection made, how was he tracked down? You also indicate you discovered he was a distant cousin, not an uncle. Again, was he known to your parents or was this discovered later? Related through blood or marriage? If marraige, did the marriage that established the relation occur before or after this incident?


My overall point is that there are many parts of your story that are vague at best. I give you the benefit of the doubt that the facts you are presenting are true, but what were their source? This prediction is about as clear and detailed as any urban legend. It gives the evidence but lacks the details of how the evidence was given. If you had said "A man name Ralph is coming to borrow money" and then he pulled up and said "Hello, my name is Ralph, I'm out of gas, could I trouble you for some money for gas?" THAT would be a fairly clear, detailed acount of a prediction (if it were true and verifiable). If you had made the prediction you say you made and you HAD an uncle Ralph and it was he who showed up, low on gas, that would again be a prediction...though in that case it's possible you could spot his car down the road and the time difference of 15 minutes is extremely precise, unless you had a watch and happened to look at it when you made the prediction and when the man showed up, it's hardly a reliable account (especially from a 5 year old).


Just some thoughts. I'm not simply trying to discredit your story, just pointing out the weakness of anecdotes as evidence. A good example is my father presenting the "success" on my mother for treating vertigo. She went, felt better for about 1 hour afterwards (which she normally does EVERYDAY, she doesn't start to get vertigo until the evening usually) and then felt bad by the evening and kept feeling bad after. A few days later my aunt talked to my dad and asked him how my mother was doing. He told her she was getting acupuncture and it was working really well. Hardly an accurate or a detailed nor direct account of the reality of the situation. Anecdotes are wildly unreliable and come nowhere near approaching evidence. This can't serve to prove or disprove your claims, all it can do is give you food for thought, and ease my boredom for a bit as I write this, heh.

[SquishyDave]

I have my own anecdote to relay, I hope you all enjoy it, it is not paranormal in any way, but it makes a interesting story.

Both me and my older sister were witness to an event when we were very young, I have no idea how old I was, but at our local church, me and my sister both observed a large redback spider crawl out of a stone wall at the church, the stange thing was, the spider was surrounded by at least half a dozen smaller spiders, all redbacks. Beautiful spiders by the way, jet black with a vivid red stripe on their abdomen. Anyhoo, a man approached the spiders, took of his thong (er flip flop you yanks might call em or something, that unfashionable footware that has no means of fastening to the foot bar hanging precariously onto the big toe), and according to my memory he forced the mother spider back into the crack in the wall with his thong, my sister remembers him killing the mother spider, while the other children ran back to the wall. I think I should mention the most interesting part, according to both me and my sister, the mother spider, was big, she was HUGE, she came up to the grown mans knee, that's how big she was, and the babies where a little under a quarter her size.

This event is clearly impossible, there are no spiders that big, and redbacks aren't any bigger than a thumbnail, yet me and my sister both distinctly remember the impossible, we can both visualise it in our heads with perfect clarity.

As far as I know there was no spider event at the church of any kind, but there may have been. Either way, how did we both misremember this? Our running theory is that one of us dreamed it, and told the other one. But we don't know. Here we have two clear memories, both cannot have happened. I am lucky enough to have had this experience, so I both emotionally know the fallibility of memory, and logically know it from various studies I have read. Not everyone is so lucky, so they find it harder to accept their memories can be dirty liars.

[Corey]

Dave...given the evidence vs your memory...clearly the answer is the man was extremely tiny. The little people work in mysterious ways, you know.

[SquishyDave]

Aye Corey, tis the wee folk to be sure.

[Garrette]

Valiant Dancer:

I had an experience where I was coming up to an intersection around midnight. The intersection felt "wrong". (Sorry, don't know any other way of putting it) I stopped even though I had a green light. The corner I was coming to was a nearly blind one and I had stopped in time to avoid a late model four door with no lights on zipping through the intersection. I have looked at that corner several times and still can't figure out why I knew the car was coming.


Val from SFN? Welcome! Long time.

Anyway, this is easy. Midnight is generally less noisy and had fewer distractions, unless you're in NYC or someplace similar.

Easy to pick up on both visual and aural indicators without them being obvious.

The car itself may not have had headlights on, but it did have running lights. Even if not, the passage of the car through a street with street lamps and/or houselights would cause a changing change (intentional redundancy there) in the ambient light at the intersection itself.

The noise of the car traveling down the street, even if it had a quiet engine would also change the ambient (right word here?) noise at the intersection. When I jog with friends, I frequently impress them with this. We'll jog in one direction and I'll suddenly tell them to move to the side because a vehicle is coming up behind us. They turn around and see nothing for a few seconds until a vehicle turns the corner toward us. It's just a change in noises.

[wayrad]

Originally posted by Morwen
Re the Poe story about the child...

I don't remember the exact story, but I do remember that kid. He always won at a game in which you had to guess how many coins your opponent was hiding, plus your own, or something like that. Something akin to rock, paper, scissors. Dupin was saying that the kid almost always won. When he asked the kid how he did it, the kid said that he tried to mold his features to imitate as closely as possible the expression of the other boy, and then wait to see which kinds of thoughts or strategy would spring into his mind, supposedly triggered by that facial expression. Then Dupin spent a couple of paragraphs praising this kid's psychological acumen. Which of course I didn't get, and I think it's nonsense, but I like Poe nonetheless. It does sound like nonsense. I certainly never did anything like that . As I remember, I just watched the person for a while, not focusing on anything in particular, until I could visualize where the object was. It worked better with people I knew, and not at all when double blinded (I was curious enough to check, although I don't think I knew the terminology for it at the time). So body language seems like a plausible explanation.

[Valiant Dancer]

Originally posted by Garrette


Val from SFN? Welcome! Long time.

Anyway, this is easy. Midnight is generally less noisy and had fewer distractions, unless you're in NYC or someplace similar.

Easy to pick up on both visual and aural indicators without them being obvious.

The car itself may not have had headlights on, but it did have running lights. Even if not, the passage of the car through a street with street lamps and/or houselights would cause a changing change (intentional redundancy there) in the ambient light at the intersection itself.

The noise of the car traveling down the street, even if it had a quiet engine would also change the ambient (right word here?) noise at the intersection. When I jog with friends, I frequently impress them with this. We'll jog in one direction and I'll suddenly tell them to move to the side because a vehicle is coming up behind us. They turn around and see nothing for a few seconds until a vehicle turns the corner toward us. It's just a change in noises.

Yup, Val from SFN. Good to see you again.

Further clarifications.

Place: Chicago. Lawrence 2 blocks north of the Ike.

Possible that the changing change (slight increase in ambient lighting gave a visual cue that someting was amiss or an object was inbound at a high rate of speed.) tipped me off subconsiously.

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Scarude


Are there any other skeptics who have had unexplainable experiences with the paranormal? I would like to hear your recollections. I remain on the fence, thanx.:p

Welcome, Scarude, fellow skeptic. I also saw my father when he died. It was only a few years ago. In the dream I saw myself asleep, then went into my own body and experienced a vision of his face beside the bed and a feeling of well being and peace. in the morning I discovered that he died that night. It was not something I had experienced before, or since, a very unique experience.

Also, check out the links in my sig. I recently provided extraordinary evidence of remote viewing an event. To increase the impact of the hit, it actually happened under a thread inititiated by a taunting 'pseudo' skeptic.

[Corey]

hmmm (done reading Ladybrook thread)....your evidence is truly staggering. The way you explain how it's true and science can back it up and make extremely vague and barely connectable association. I'm glad you're such a level headed skeptic.


You know, the way you assert you're a skeptic reminds me of the way www.ifeminism.com claims to be a feminist website and that women who don't want to cook and clean and obey their husbands aren't true feminists, while their sole purpose is to discredit feminism by making contrary claims and calling themselves feminists. Changing the meaning of the word in your mind to give yourself credibility like you've objectively researched paranormal experiences and have scientifically concluded them to be unexplainable is laughable at best. Saying "science has proved it" isn't proof in and of itself. Siting studies that weren't controlled or double blind and have to verifiable, credible data isn't proof. You're a troll of the worst variety. One who pretends who tries to disuade people from logical thought by claiming to be one of them...when I doubt you've provided a logical argument on this board to date.

[Starrman]

Also, check out the links in my sig. I recently provided extraordinary evidence of remote viewing an event. To increase the impact of the hit, it actually happened under a thread inititiated by a taunting 'pseudo' skeptic.

Your replication of said ability was even more staggering.

Also, I'm offended by the nudity in your avatar! :)

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Corey
hmmm (done reading Ladybrook thread)....your evidence is truly staggering. The way you explain how it's true and science can back it up and make extremely vague and barely connectable association. I'm glad you're such a level headed skeptic.



I skipped the rest of your post as it was just a rude personal attack. If you do it again, I will, as I do others who are rude to me, simply put you on ignore.

What, if you don't mind me asking, is your rational explanation for such a hit in such a thread?

[Corey]

I don't see it as a hit, that's my point. You're drawing lines of connection yourself. When I see a hit for remote viewing or precognition or telepathy that is direct, clear and undeniable in a controlled, verifiable, credible, controlled experiment I'll see it as proof. I can't regard a vague posting with much explanation on a forum through anecdote a "hit", sorry.

As for my "insult". Questioning your reasoning, motivations and tactics for posting the things you do and pointing out a parallel to similar tactics in other individuals and groups is not an insult, it's an unflattering observation. You refer to yourself as a "true skeptic" but you don't seem to do anything but spout your views on the paranormal without any regard for the aspects of logic, consistency and hard evidence that a skeptic requries to prove disprove something to themselves or others. As far as I can tell you're only trying to lure those who are uncertain or undecided in their skepticism of the paranormal to your views. I'm not seeking to disprove you, I simply refuse to aknowledge something that hasn't been proved. If my language was inappropriate in some way then I'll apologize for it, but not the content of my statement.

(edited for typing errors)

[Lucianarchy]

So you don't have a rational explanation. OK.

I don't, fully. But it still happened. I am a skeptic who experiences things I cannot adequately explain with current scientific theory.

[Corey]

Specifically, your predicition, according to your remote viewing was "Ladybrook". One word. Within a short amount of time (you claim 24 hours) there was a carbombing in Belfast.


What about this is a hit? You said one word...and the event you claim was being predicted was a carbombing in Beflast. Why not "car", "bomb", "carbomb", "Belfast" or anything remotedly associate with the actual event? The claim you make stating the connection between these two things was that the car went through Ladybrook. Well, how many other vehicles went through Ladybrook in that 24 hour period? How many people do you think died who went through Ladybrook? Had a baby? Found out their spouse was cheating on them? Were dumped by a boyfriend or girlfriend?

You also claim the Belfast bombing was the only thing of interest that came up in a search for "Ladybrook" on the net. But when you google for "Ladybrook", as stated by someone else in the thread you're referenceing...there were over 3,000 results. When I look up "Ladybrook Belfast" over 800 results. A search for "Ladybrook Belfast Bomb" yields only about 9 distinct results...one of which recounts an event from the 70's, one IRA related deaths from the 80's, one on patterns of crime in N Ireland from 98/99, and another referencing Ladybrook in description of anti-violence rallies in 1979.


Completely setting aside the anecdotal part of your "evidence" and all your gratuitous talk about being "tested" and vague references to undeniable scientific evidence, no specifics or verifiable data for which you supplied...I fail to see a "hit". All you did was mention the word "Ladybrook", which you claim is an unusual word (no evidence of that, with over 3000 results on google alone), a town in Northern Ireland...and then claimed it was a connection to a bombing in Belfast. If carbombs were a fairly unusual occurance in that area, I still wouldn't see it as a "hit", but as it stands you said the name of a town in N Ireland, with no prediction or prognostication of events to occur, then said it was connected to a bombing. I understand that your explanation for this is that RV predictions are vague and often contain no recognizable meaning until later. A "skeptic" wouldn't look at a condition like that and assume RV powers...it's guessing and then finding a vague connection to make it into a prediction, very little or no convincing evidence and no credible evidence of any kind.

(edited for spelling)

[Corey]

You lacking a rational explanation doesn't give your claim credibility, quite the oposite.

I DO have a rational explanation. You said a word, then you went out of your way to look for something to connect it to that occured after you said it, trying to find some way to justify your belief in something you have no concrete evidence to prove to yoursel or anyone else.


If I say "I'm seeing the color blue" then I pour through news stories for the next 24 hours, I'll eventually find many things connected to the color blue, until I narrow it down to something very specific. A child in my town was killed by a hit and run driver, the car was a blue sedan. When people ask how I can claim I forsaw it, even though I gave no indication of the incident until after it happened, what do I say? Predictions are vague and we often don't understand them at the time. Only after something of relative significance happens with a minimal amount of circumstancial similarity to my extremely vague prediction happens can I find a way to attribute it to my "powers"


My rational explanation is that you are deluded, if you are sincere. It's not an insult, it's an observation based on your own words, methods and predictions. It's unfortunate, but it is cureable. However, you're the only one who can take a legitimately skeptical look at your own claims and prove it or disprove it to yourself, my logic or observation will mean nothing if you're already convinced without a potential for revising your own opinions.

(edited for spelling...again. I type too fast)

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Corey



My rational explanation is that you are deluded, if you are sincere. It's not an insult, it's an observation based on your own words, methods and predictions. It's unfortunate, but it is cureable. However, you're the only one who can take a legitimately skeptical look at your own claims and prove it or disprove it to yourself, my logic or observation will mean nothing if you're already convinced without a potential for revising your own opinions.

It is not a delusion that it happened. But If you want to call me deluded, then feel free, it's an easy thing to do. This is an example of the things we are discussing in this thread. It is highly unusual for a name like 'ladybrook' to hit the significance of a terrorist attack. But it did. Not long after I recorded the word in the thread which was taunting about my RV skills. Luck? Do me a favour. If you believe that all these things are delusions, then excuse me, but you have little to contribute in a skeptics debating forum other than insult.

[asthmatic camel]

Ummm, Corey,

Please don't breathe more life into this "knackered vulture", I did once and have regretted it ever since.

Regards,

AC.

[whitefork]

I knew one about eight years of age, whose success at guessing in the game of 'even and odd' attracted universal admiration. This game is simple, and is played with marbles. One player holds in his hand a number of these toys, and demands of another whether that number is even or odd. If the guess is right, the guesser wins one; if wrong, he loses one. The boy to whom I allude won all the marbles of the school. Of course he had some principle of guessing; and this lay in mere observation and admeasurement of the astuteness of his opponents. For example, an arrant simpleton is his opponent, and, holding up his closed hand, asks, 'are they even or odd?' Our schoolboy replies, 'odd,' and loses; but upon the second trial he wins, for he then says to himself, the simpleton had them even upon the first trial, and his amount of cunning is just sufficient to make him have them odd upon the second; I will therefore guess odd'; --he guesses odd, and wins. Now, with a simpleton a degree above the first, he would have reasoned thus: 'This fellow finds that in the first instance I guessed odd, and, in the second, he will propose to himself upon the first impulse, a simple variation from even to odd, as did the first simpleton; but then a second thought will suggest that this is too simple a variation, and finally he will decide upon putting it even as before. I will therefore guess even' guesses even, and wins. Now this mode of reasoning in the schoolboy, whom his fellows termed "lucky," --what, in its last analysis, is it?"

"It is merely," I said, "an identification of the reasoner's intellect with that of his opponent."

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
It is highly unusual for a name like 'ladybrook' to hit the significance of a terrorist attack. But it did.
No, Mr. False Memory Syndrome. There was no terrorist attack.

[Starrman]

No, Mr. False Memory Syndrome. There was no terrorist attack.

Correct. It was a failed terrorist plot that passed through the Ladybrook neighborhood. Ladybrook was not the starting point or the target of a terrorist attack. It was such a spectacular event that you can still read about if you download the single story from the BBC archives.

Oh god. Its got me again.

[Corey]

Yeah, we all know how rare terrorist attacks and attempted terrorist attacks are in Northern Ireland. So rare in Ladybrook that I found 4 or so different major articles articles about IRA related violence in the area from the 70's and 80's to the present. Terrorism and attempted terrorism are so rare an impossible to predict a stone throw from Belfast, one of the most active and wellknown areas for religious and political terrorism for decades.

[Corey]

Actually...I've conducted a little experiment.

I've made a prediction.

Since Luci can predict with such incredible accuracy with only one word...I'm going to give 3.


Syracuse

Red

Car


I don't know what these words mean or how they will fit together, but sometime between 12pm Pacific Standard Time (when I made the prediction, over AIM to my brother, who will confirm upon request) today and 12pm Pacific Standard Time tomorrow, something of significance will occur involving those three words. After that time tomorrow I will do a search on google using those three words and the accuracy of my prediction will be revealed. However, I know for a fact my prediction is true, therefore if evidence confirming it is not found immediately a search will be done within the following days to cofirm the event occuring within the given time frame.

There, my prediction is made, and with considerably more specificity than "Ladybrook". You may say these are somewhat common words. Well, only the most vibrant and simply identifiable clues come through in my predictions...I can't explain it, it's beyond me. However, I have made a specific prediction.

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

No, Mr. False Memory Syndrome. There was no terrorist attack.

The BBC and the police do not agree with you.

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Corey
Actually...I've conducted a little experiment.

I've made a prediction.

Since Luci can predict with such incredible accuracy with only one word...I'm going to give 3.


Syracuse

Red

Car



There you go then. 'Syracruse' has far more google significance than 'ladybrook' and you've even opened the range wider by adding a colour and an object. It should be much easier for you to get a 'lucky' hit in 24 hours.

Trouble is, mine came with a couple of hours and had the significance of a terrorist attack.

Yours still shows nothing. Even over a longer 24hr period.

Corey, this thing really happened.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
There you go then. 'Syracruse' has far more google significance than 'ladybrook' and you've even opened the range wider by adding a colour and an object. It should be much easier for you to get a 'lucky' hit in 24 hours.

Trouble is, mine came with a couple of hours and had the significance of a terrorist attack.

Yours still shows nothing. Even over a longer 24hr period.

Corey, this thing really happened.
You never predicted a terrorist attack.

You merely posted a word, "Ladybrook", then later claimed a psychic "hit" after the incident in the Ladybrook district was reported on the news.

As we used to say on sci.skeptic, "Nice postdiction, kook."

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Ohrryp

You never predicted a terrorist attack.

You merely posted a word, "Ladybrook", then later claimed a psychic "hit" after the incident in the Ladybrook district was reported on the news.

As we used to say on sci.skeptic, "Nice postdiction, kook."


OK. Thanks.

[SteveGrenard]

In the thread on cryptozoology, I mentioned the word Turkey several times, not just once, on Weds November 19th at 11:26.PM. In fact I was more specifically referring to the Sea of Marmara, referred to previously by others, which is the body of water upon which Istanbul is situated.

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870197658#post1870197658


Press Release

The British Foreign Office said Saturday that 10 Turkish and British staff were killed in the bombing of the British consulate in the Turkish city of Istanbul.

&quotWe now believe that 10 staff, both Turkish and British, working at the British Consulate General in Istanbul lost their lives on November 20," the Foreign Office said in a statement.

&quotHowever, it must be stressed that there is a formal identification procedure which has not yet been completed," the ministry added.

The 10 people have been missing since Thursday morning 20 November when two explosions wrecked the British consulate and the headquarters of Britain's HSBC Bank.

Three Britons, including the Consul General Roger Short whose death has already been confirmed, were on the list.

[gnome]

Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
I had an experience where I was coming up to an intersection around midnight. The intersection felt "wrong". (Sorry, don't know any other way of putting it) I stopped even though I had a green light. The corner I was coming to was a nearly blind one and I had stopped in time to avoid a late model four door with no lights on zipping through the intersection. I have looked at that corner several times and still can't figure out why I knew the car was coming.

All I know is that something in my subconscious saved my life. (I was driving a 1991 Geo Metro. The car appeared to be of the 1976 Monte Carlo variety. The car would have hit the drivers side of my car rendering me denaturizing flesh.) At the time, I thought it was a message from the devine. Now, I think it is unexplained.

I wonder if it is possible that some of the ambient light available from the traffic lights, street lights, business, or whatnot reflected off of shiny bits of the car and you caught it in peripheral vision as you approached.

Or, the other way around, maybe reflections from the car if there was no line of sight, still bounced off of windows to clue you in.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Corey
Actually...I've conducted a little experiment.

I've made a prediction.

Since Luci can predict with such incredible accuracy with only one word...I'm going to give 3.


Syracuse

Red

Car


I don't know what these words mean or how they will fit together, but sometime between 12pm Pacific Standard Time (when I made the prediction, over AIM to my brother, who will confirm upon request) today and 12pm Pacific Standard Time tomorrow, something of significance will occur involving those three words. After that time tomorrow I will do a search on google using those three words and the accuracy of my prediction will be revealed. However, I know for a fact my prediction is true, therefore if evidence confirming it is not found immediately a search will be done within the following days to cofirm the event occuring within the given time frame.

There, my prediction is made, and with considerably more specificity than "Ladybrook". You may say these are somewhat common words. Well, only the most vibrant and simply identifiable clues come through in my predictions...I can't explain it, it's beyond me. However, I have made a specific prediction.

There's a place called redcar on the coast just near where I live.

[Corey]

Originally posted by Interesting Ian


There's a place called redcar on the coast just near where I live.


Clearly a hit eh? hehe...there's always the chance for multiple predictions, who can understand this magnificent power?


Luci...there was no terrorist attack, a van was caught with a bomb in it in Belfast and it drove through Ladybrook. Like I said before, you didn't predict anything and your supposed prediction wasn't even congruent with what happened. When I said you were deluded, this is what I was talking about.




Google results for "Syracuse Red Car Nov 21 2003" = 6,080

Top Result = A Orlando Sentinel story about the a victory for the Miami Hurricanes over Syracuse contained all the words in the search.



If only I had placed a bet after my prediction that the Hurricanes would win agains Syracuse...but my powers can't be used for mere profit.



Syracuse, being a town near a large city (NY) isn't any less "rare" or "unusual" a word than Ladybrook...which is a town, a trainstation an elementary school and an estate. If someone were to make a one word "prediction" every day, even with a word that was "unusual"...eventually you're going to have a coincidence with some notable event in the news. The very fact of the matter is to consider it a prediction is to apply significance and pre-knowledge where there is non. If Luci had said "I predict that within the next day a van will be stopped near Belfast, after traveling through Ladybrook Estate and will be caught by the police before it can deliver it's payload, a bomb"

THAT would be a prediction...and a damned specific one. However, saying "Ladybrook" then saying there was a terrorist bombing in Ladybrook...when there was a thwarted bombing in Belfast and the van drove THROUGH Ladybrook isn't even an accurate postdiction. Congrats Luci, you can't even accurately report the incident you "predicted" AFTER it happened.

[SteveGrenard]

In the case of Turkey and Istanbul there was a terrorist attack with loss of life.

But in a more pointed scenario, that thru the only medium I ever consulted face to face ....I reported here that a friend of the deceased whose name was given was advised not to move to California. Actually the communicator said this was a very bad idea. I did not know the friend of the deceased very well (only casually) nor did I know he was actually moving to California. He was and he did. He was told about the warning. I posted this, in passing, here on October 23rd, 2003 at 8:07 PM.

A day or two later the fire problem in SoCal erupted.

These kinds of coincidental convergences, if you will, happen frequently to all of us. One cannot know with certainty if they are coincidences or not. The thing with the medium certainly gives me pause as did everything else that came through her.

[thaiboxerken]

Yes I am a believer... in precognition and telepathy.

Many woo woos are.


Are there any other skeptics who have had unexplainable experiences with the paranormal?

I thought you just said you were a believer.


I would like to hear your recollections. I remain on the fence, thanx.:p

You aren't on the fence, as you've stated that you are a believer because of your experiences.

[thaiboxerken]

These are just two instances that I cannot explain rationally.

I'm sure they've been explained rationally to you and you simply can't accept the mundane explanations.

[thaiboxerken]

As I neared the knoll, a voice in my head said STOP! and I visualized the car careening off a precipice. Needless to say I did stop the car and my father and I got out. We both looked down at a sheer drop of some fifty or sixty feet.

I had a similar experience, I was driving and saw a kid run across the street. I saw my car smashing into him and decapitating him, then I saw myself driving off because I was scared of what might happen. After that, I saw myself going to jail for hit-and-run. So... I stopped and avoided running over the kid. Proof positive of precognition.. .or, that I am just intelligent enough to react to the VISUAL observation of the kid walking across the street.

Your story is not impressive in the least. It doesn't even hint at being precognition.

[Ersby]

I can’t believe we’re back on Ladybrook again. I seem to recall offering a rational explanation and received from Lucian what can only be described as one of those “meltdowns” that Lucian finds so distasteful in others.

The high points are,

Firstly, Renata has already replicated the effect.

Secondly, we cannot be sure that the post was not edited (or even posted) before the incident (Lucian’s present claim that it was “a couple of hours” is erroneous). The post does not have the “edited by” on the end, but it’s not unheard of to edit a post without the message.

Thirdly, Lucian has often (although not since this Ladybrook thing, funnily enough) boasted about his links to the Home Office, claiming to have worked there, and also to have worked with supergrasses which’d mean he’d worked in the N.Ireland dept (assuming it’s not a gross exaggeration). This’d establish a link between the most likely source of information.

Fourth, we don’t know that Northern Ireland was Lucian’s target. It could have been Ladybrook, Nottingham, where a lengthy murder investigation was recently pushed back into the public eye (again, the Home Office would be a fine source of information on this case). Ladybrook is not an unusual name. A search on the BBC shows it’s occurred about once a month in the news for at least half a year.

Lastly, the thing about how amazing that it should occur in a thread taunting Lucian’s RV skills is a red herring. Lucian is frequently asked to demonstrate his oft mention paranormal abilities (even to the point of starting a new thread: Lucian’s lottery claim prompted at least one, as I recall). He has haughtily ignored each request until now.

There are a couple of other things that bother me. I searched for the story only a couple of days after the incident, but found it only the BBC site and a local N.Ireland news site. All the other main newspaper sites hadn’t covered the story. In other words, despite Lucian’s claims, it doesn’t look like a big story. (Any other UK posters care to comment? I could be wrong.) One that had a high profile for one day and then was forgotten. It is convenient that Lucian happened to be watching the news at the right time to catch the word “Ladybrook”. So Lucian (a) placed the word and then (b) discovered the “significance” of the word.

As for the “importance” of the story in a vague global consciousness/people’s lives at risk type of meaning, I refer Lucian to the findings of the PEAR GCP which discovered that a bomb blast in Northern Ireland with many fatalities had less of an impact (ie, none) on global consciousness than the TV telethon “From Sea To Shining Sea”.

But if we’re sharing amazing coincidences, look at this. I was reading an old Fortean Times a few months ago, when I found this quote:

“As I myself, thanks to my vanity, was eager to hand something down to posterity, that I might not be the only one excluded from the privilege of poetic licence, and as I had nothing true to tell, not having had any adventures of significance, I took to lying.”

The author was a certain Lucian of Samosata (from the book A True Story). The quote fits Lucianarchy’s character so perfectly that at first I thought Lucianarchy must have known about the Greek Lucian and that his screen-name was a very subtle joke. However, given Lucianarchy’s limited interest in anything other than himself, I find that unlikely.

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard
In the case of Turkey and Istanbul there was a terrorist attack with loss of life.

But in a more pointed scenario, that thru the only medium I ever consulted face to face ....I reported here that a friend of the deceased whose name was given was advised not to move to California. Actually the communicator said this was a very bad idea. I did not know the friend of the deceased very well (only casually) nor did I know he was actually moving to California. He was and he did. He was told about the warning. I posted this, in passing, here on October 23rd, 2003 at 8:07 PM.

A day or two later the fire problem in SoCal erupted.

These kinds of coincidental convergences, if you will, happen frequently to all of us. One cannot know with certainty if they are coincidences or not. The thing with the medium certainly gives me pause as did everything else that came through her.

You are quite correct that one cannot know with certainty if they are coincidences or not.

People who are sensitive to the whispers which fill the life around us tend to us their own intuition to deem whether and what action to take for themselves.

There is no doubt that the effect is as tantalising and as illusive as the butterfly to pin down, and like the butterfly, can only be appreciated and observed in nature when it is in fact notp pinned down.

In fact, these effects tend to disappear when we try to 'pin' them down from a material observational view point. Like any other entity independant to our existence, despite our desire to control it, we find it has a mind of its own.

Coincidence, jokes and symbolism and mimickery are inherent factors in the nature of the effect and its occurance. The literature is rife with such examples.

'ladybrook' came through in my reply to the opening post of the thread entitled "Lucianarchy and remote viewing".

It had the significance of a terrorist attack which the police fear could have cost "countless lives" in the residential estate of Ladybrook.

The example increased its' psironic effect by actually predicting an event which was intent on causing countless lives and destruction in that the outcome was luckily safe for those the attack targetted, even though the intent was chillingly self evident. Had the attack been successful, the pseudo-skeptics would have been able to crow about the 'ghoulish' nature of psychics. No, this was indeed, a truly Psironic example, one which occured within a couple hours of my recording it here, on this forum, in the thread which questioned my ability, first post.

I know some people have tried to 'replicate' this with grass fires and other such trivia. :rolleyes: 'Ladybrook' was and still is an exremely unlikely name for anything of that significance to occur.

In terms of significance, think about if this had been New York or Syracuse. Are the people there more significant than those who live on a working class estate in Northern Ireland?

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


I had a similar experience, I was driving and saw a kid run across the street. I saw my car smashing into him and decapitating him, then I saw myself driving off because I was scared of what might happen. After that, I saw myself going to jail for hit-and-run. So... I stopped and avoided running over the kid. Proof positive of precognition.. .or, that I am just intelligent enough to react to the VISUAL observation of the kid walking across the street.

Your story is not impressive in the least. It doesn't even hint at being precognition.

:rolleyes: Whereas, yours indicates that you are the sort of scum who would run over a child and then try to avoid the responsibility for your actions.

[Hannibal]

Nice and rational as usual I see...:rolleyes:

[Valiant Dancer]

Originally posted by gnome


I wonder if it is possible that some of the ambient light available from the traffic lights, street lights, business, or whatnot reflected off of shiny bits of the car and you caught it in peripheral vision as you approached.

Or, the other way around, maybe reflections from the car if there was no line of sight, still bounced off of windows to clue you in.

Garrette's description of a unconscious perception of a slight brightening of ambient light at the intersection is most likely considering the conditions of the intersection. (No line of sight, no lights, including parking lights on the car, high rate of speed, green light for my line of traffic. Nebulous "wrong" feeling about the intersection tends to indicate subconscious perception)

These are large stone buildings with few windows. Many with curtains baffling reflections. Your window reflections could be an added visual clue to the slight increase in ambient lighting.

[Starrman]

Luci,

Maybe your predictions are what cause the events. There is just as much evidence that your predictions send out psychic shockwaves that make them come true.

How do you know it is one, and not the other?

Luci:

You are quite correct that one cannot know with certainty if they are coincidences or not.

Also by Luci, earlier:

I recently provided extraordinary evidence of remote viewing an event.


So you have changed your mind, and do you now admit that your Ladybrook hit could have been a coincidence?

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Starrman
Luci,

Maybe your predictions are what cause the events. There is just as much evidence that your predictions send out psychic shockwaves that make them come true.

'peace'.

So you have changed your mind, and do you now admit that your Ladybrook hit could have been a coincidence?

Of course it could. Albeit, an extraordinary improbable one. Considering; I don't make a habit of disclosing such things here, the significance of it coming through in a thread about my viewing ability, first post from me, second in thread, within minutes of the the thread opening, within a couple of hours it becoming a terrorist attack location, a location which the security forces say put "countless lives at risk" , which also demonstrated the psirony of the message by avoiding the 'ghoul' quotient which pseudo-skeptics so often deride psychics for.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
...a terrorist attack location [/B]
No.
Wrong.
No attack occurred.

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

No.
Wrong.
No attack occurred.

The police and the BBC do not agree with you.

[Starrman]

The police and the BBC do not agree with you.

The BBC agrees with Jeff Corey. From the BBC article:

They ordered the driver to take it through the nearby Ladybrooke estate, over speed ramps, and park it outside Woodbourne police station.

If you predicted anything, which you did not, you predicted the neighborhood the bus drove through to get to its target (the police station).


Luci:

within a couple of hours it becoming a terrorist attack location

In order for this to be true, you would have had to have typed 'Woodbourne police station.'

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Starrman


The BBC agrees with Jeff Corey.

Completely false.

This is the BBC account:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/audio/39299000/rm/_39299971_rosyb.ram

"Police have blamed dissident republicans for the attack which, they said, couldn't have happened at a worse time. "

[Starrman]

I think you misunderstood. I'm not saying there was no attempted attack - I am saying the target of the attack was not Ladybrook.

Please read the second paragraph from the BBC web-site here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3081623.stm) :

They ordered the driver to take it through the nearby Ladybrooke estate, over speed ramps, and park it outside Woodbourne police station.

The target was the Woodbourne police station - they went through the Ladybrook estate to get there.

Please provide a quote from the article that says otherwise.

[thaiboxerken]

"Police have blamed dissident republicans for the attack which, they said, couldn't have happened at a worse time. "

Does a failed attack still count as an attack? I guess in woo-woo world it must, since that gives more wiggle room for "predictions". Although you never made a prediction, all you did was type a word.

[Jeff Corey]

Please read the second paragraph from the BBC web-site here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3081623.stm) :
The target was the Woodbourne police station - they went through the Ladybrook estate to get there.
Please provide a quote from the article that says otherwise. I read the article, The driver stopped the bus at Stewartstown and Black's Roads. It doesn't say he actually went through Ladybrooke at all. Is anybody familiar with western Belfast?

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
It doesn't say he actually went through Ladybrooke at all.

Have you even bothered to listen to the BBC NI report? :rolleyes:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/audio/39299000/rm/_39299971_rosyb.ram

[Jeff Corey]

On that link, I get "This page can not be found."
Somewhat akin to your logic.
On the print version I accessed it clearly stated that the driver halted the bus on Black's Road , which, as far as I can see on my map of West Belfast, is before the estate, hospital or police station.
So he never drove through Ladybrook with the bomb on the bus, it was sucessfully decommissioned over on Black's Road, and you are not even competent to provide a working link.

[chillzero]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
It is highly unusual for a name like 'ladybrook' to hit the significance of a terrorist attack.

Are you kidding?
Ladybrook - if you meant the one in Ulster, let alone the many other worldwide locations called Ladybrook- is in the centre of one of the most tumultuous and unstable areas in Belfast. It is home to a high number of terrorist offenders' families, and is close to the main routes as used in this instance.

There are comparitively few routes out of Belfast, for such a highly populated city, so using this road was not an unusual choice.

Besides, you only gave the word - not a full location, or indication of an event.

Plus, as I just discovered - you can edit posts, without the post indicating that you have done so. Add whatever you like.

edited to add (3rd edit) - hmmm... on second edit, it indicated I had altered it, but it didn't do that the first time! Odd. I take it back, anyway.

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
On that link, I get "This page can not be found."


Try this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/audio/39299000/rm/_39299971_rosyb.ram

[Jeff Corey]

Still didn't work. And I really don't want to add a new player. Print media are preferable.

[nick]

It sounds to me like we have gone from "I can predict terrorist attacks" to "I can predict the language used by BBC reporters in describing (which they don't always do with 100% accuracy) what happened when terrorists attempted an attack".

This, I would suggest, is rather less cosmically significant.

[Jeff Corey]

But it is comically significant.

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
Still didn't work. And I really don't want to add a new player. Print media are preferable.

OK. I though you were a skeptic though. You obviously just don't want to know what happened.

[Schizobunny]

One time I knew my cousin was going to be born and he was born, but of course I knew it was my aunt's due date.

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy


Also, check out the links in my sig. I recently provided extraordinary evidence of remote viewing an event. To increase the impact of the hit, it actually happened under a thread inititiated by a taunting 'pseudo' skeptic.

Lucianarchy, you are always good for a chuckle.