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Marc39
25th April 2009, 09:41 AM
No.

If you can't follow me, we won't have a conversation. Easy, eh?

I don't dumb myself down, ya see. Part of my policy in the War on Stupid.

See post 21 (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4540497&postcount=21)of this thread for my question.

Do you have an answer you would like to share?

DR

Have a nice weekend.

Marc39
25th April 2009, 10:54 AM
That's right folks. Our great ally, the vanguard of human rights and freedom in the Middle East, the only Western-style freedom-loving country in the Levant...........100% allows racial, religious, and ethnic discrimination.

Where is this racial discrimination allowed? It is allowed in housing, education, and employment.

It is 100% LEGAL in Israel to NOT sell someone a home or NOT rent them an apartment, because of their race. This is a fact.

It is 100% LEGAL in Israel to NOT allow a child to enroll in a kindergarden or nursery, because they are an Arab child. This is a fact.

It is 100% LEGAL to NOT hire someone, because of their race. The State of Israel allows this. No joke..



It would be helpful if you could cite specific examples of these grave human rights violations.

Tricky
25th April 2009, 07:31 PM
A number of bickering posts moved to AAH. Please stick to the topic and avoid posts that include attacks on other members.

Darth Rotor
26th April 2009, 10:26 AM
Have a nice weekend.
Got it, no answer, and thus no support for the assertion you made.

Appreciated.

DR

IDB87
26th April 2009, 01:08 PM
Bigotry is a problem to be worked at. It can be mitigated and sometimes minimized. That may be all we can hope for. And it takes work. IMO, work worth doing.

Agreed. The problem this thread runs into is that Israel IS working on correcting the socialized discrimination that is in their society, starting with how funds are allocated between Jewish and Arab schools. The U.N. has already recognized Israel's efforts to minimize this form of discrimination, but asserts they have a long way to go. As long as their is progression, threads like this are not needed, unless it's something specific that can be addressed and discussed.

Also, I was a bit nasty in that reply, working on the friendly and lively bit. Cheers.

DR

No worries. It's the internets.

moon1969
28th April 2009, 07:35 PM
Jews are not racist. LOL if you want to see real racism than visit a website called asianfinest.com. Chinese and koreans are the most racist people on earth.

Eddie Dane
29th April 2009, 12:29 AM
Jews are not racist. LOL if you want to see real racism than visit a website called asianfinest.com. Chinese and koreans are the most racist people on earth.

I think you'd hard pressed to find an entire country or ethnic group that doesn't have a sizeable percentage of racist tits amongst its ranks.

If you went to the South Pole and dug deep enough, you'd probably find something akin to an Eskimo supremacy movement.

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 07:50 AM
That's right folks. Our great ally, the vanguard of human rights and freedom in the Middle East, the only Western-style freedom-loving country in the Levant...........100% allows racial, religious, and ethnic discrimination.

False. Israel has strict laws against discrimination.

Where is this racial discrimination allowed? It is allowed in housing, education, and employment.

False. Anti-discrimination laws in Israel forbid discrimination in housing, education and employment.

It is 100% LEGAL in Israel to NOT sell someone a home or NOT rent them an apartment, because of their race. This is a fact.

False. This not not fact, it is fiction.

It is 100% LEGAL in Israel to NOT allow a child to enroll in a kindergarden or nursery, because they are an Arab child. This is a fact.

False. This is not fact, it is fiction.

It is 100% LEGAL to NOT hire someone, because of their race. The State of Israel allows this. No joke..

False. This is not fact, it is fiction.

So folks, never mind the Israeli propaganda, but do we REALLY have common values with Israel? Do we really share common values with a nation that openly allows racial discrimination??

What kind of nation, that has a 2,000 year history of being persecuted, exiled, and murdered, because of racism....allows racism now that they have power and authority?

A nation of hypocrites perhaps?

Only God will judge. And according to the Bible, he does not take kindly to his people being disobedient and arrogant.

This post is as truthful as the fake story about "Jew-Only" road signs in Israel and the misleading post that Netanyahu said 9/11 was a good thing.

Thunder
3rd May 2009, 07:56 AM
This post is as truthful as the fake story about "Jew-Only" road signs in Israel and the misleading post that Netanyahu said 9/11 was a good thing.

Funny, I don't recall anyone saying there were "Jew-only" road signs in the West Bank.

Is it not a fact that a kindergarden in northern Israel refused enrollment of an Arab girl, because the Jewish parents refused to have their children around an Arab?

Yes, it is a fact.

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 08:05 AM
Funny, I don't recall anyone saying there were "Jew-only" road signs in the West Bank.

I do recall, although, I'd, too, want to dissociate myself from that fairy tale post had I been the author of it.

Is it not a fact that a kindergarden in northern Israel refused enrollment of an Arab girl, because the Jewish parents refused to have their children around an Arab?

Yes, it is a fact.

I am not familiar with the details, however, school systems in Israel are under local jurisdiction. Sure, it's possible someone would not want their child to associate with an Arab child, just as it's possible for an Arab parent to not want their child to associate with a Jewish child. Such an incident happened in my community's school system in New York. There are such people in every community in the world. To suggest Israel condones such conduct is preposterous.

Thunder
3rd May 2009, 08:09 AM
I do recall, although, I'd, too, want to dissociate myself from that fairy tale post had I been the author of it. .

i never said anything about "Jew-only" road signs. You know this, and are now just lying. If you search for an hour, you will not find such a quote. I suggest you appologize for lying.

What I said, which may have been incorrect, is that that there are "Jew-only" roads..in the West Bank. These roads are only for Israeli citizens, but they go to Jew-only settlements. So, technically, they are not "Jew-only"...but for the most part, only Jews drive on them.

But "Jew-only" road signs? Never said that. Your apology is expected for this utter lie.

Thunder
3rd May 2009, 08:11 AM
I am not familiar with the details, however, school systems in Israel are under local jurisdiction. Sure, it's possible someone would not want their child to associate with an Arab child, just as it's possible for an Arab parent to not want their child to associate with a Jewish child. Such an incident happened in my community's school system in New York. There are such people in every community in the world. To suggest Israel condones such conduct is preposterous.

The school called the parents and told them that their cute little girl, would not be able to attend the kindergarden, due to the racism of the other Jewish parents.

This is a fact.

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 08:16 AM
The school called the parents and told them that their cute little girl, would not be able to attend the kindergarden, due to the racism of the other Jewish parents.

This is a fact.

Hearsay. In any case, it's a local jurisdictonal matter. There are numerous instances of Arab parents not wishing their children to associate with Jewish children. Most Arab and Jewish children attend separate schools in Israel, by mutual choice.

Thunder
3rd May 2009, 08:19 AM
Hearsay. In any case, it's a local jurisdictonal matter. .

Sounds like the "State's Rights" argument of 40 years ago. Why should we care if white stores and white restaurants dont wanna serve to blacks right?

Its their business...right?

But when fancy golf courses won't accept Jews, the ADL goes up in arms about anti-Semitism. So which is it? Is discrimination ok or not???

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 08:21 AM
What I said, which may have been incorrect, is that that there are "Jew-only" roads..in the West Bank. These roads are only for Israeli citizens, but they go to Jew-only settlements. So, technically, they are not "Jew-only"...but for the most part, only Jews drive on them.

But "Jew-only" road signs? Never said that. Your apology is expected for this utter lie.

Yes, it is incorrect. The source used for that bogus post, B'Tselem, is a pro-Palestinian group who either corrected the story or never ran the story about Jew-Only road signs, as their website wrote about "Israeli Only" roads. Jews, Muslims, Christians, Druze, etc. etc. may use the roads. Palestinians were barred from certain roads due to security precautions because of a pattern of violence in specific areas.

Thunder
3rd May 2009, 08:24 AM
The source used for that bogus post, B'Tselem, is a pro-Palestinian group

correction. they are a pro-civil rights and human rights group in Israel. or does being pro-civil rights, in your eyes, mean being pro-Palestinian?

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 08:24 AM
Sounds like the "State's Rights" argument of 40 years ago. Why should we care if white stores and white restaurants dont wanna serve to blacks right?

Its their business...right?

But when fancy golf courses won't accept Jews, the ADL goes up in arms about anti-Semitism. So which is it? Is discrimination ok or not???

Nonsense. Anti-discrimination laws in Israel permit any aggrieved party, whether Arab or otherwise, to seek redress in the court system if not satisfied locally.

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 08:26 AM
correction. they are a pro-civil rights and human rights group in Israel. or does being pro-civil rights, in your eyes, mean being pro-Palestinian?

Pro-palestinian. 99% of their website cites allegations against Israel.

Thunder
3rd May 2009, 08:40 AM
it is a human rights organization in Israel. their focus is civil rights and human rights issues in Israel. do you have a problem with that?

should Israel be immune from organizations that investigate human rights and civil rights issues?

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 08:54 AM
it is a human rights organization in Israel. their focus is civil rights and human rights issues in Israel. do you have a problem with that?

should Israel be immune from organizations that investigate human rights and civil rights issues?

B'Tselem virtually ignores human rights and civil rights violations in the Arab and Muslim worlds, rendering them biased and their findings questionable. I'm not interested in debating B'Tselem .

Thunder
3rd May 2009, 09:01 AM
I love debating B'Tselem. And I had a girl over last night too.

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 09:03 AM
I love debating B'Tselem. And I had a girl over last night too.

The title of the original post is false, that's all I wanted to establish.

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 09:05 AM
are you denying that racial discrimination is legal in Israel? is that what you are saying?

http://www.acri.org.il/eng/story.aspx?id=628

http://www.acri.org.il/eng/Story.aspx?id=249

Racial discrimination is forbidden in Israel.

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 09:07 AM
I will contact human rights organizations that work in Israel tomorrow and find out if there are actually laws that allow racial discrimination in employment, housing, or education.

If I am wrong...I will admit so. But If I am right...I will rub it in your faces.

Can we have a status report on this?

Thunder
3rd May 2009, 09:14 AM
As I have a life, full of parties, sex, volunteer events, and a job, I have failed to contact them. But I will get to it someday.


....I have just emailed B'Tselem. Lets see what they say.

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 10:05 AM
I have a life, full of parties, sex, volunteer events...

...and dealing with a maniacal obsession with Israel and Joos.

The Fool
3rd May 2009, 06:03 PM
Racial discrimination is forbidden in Israel.
including the racial discrimination that Israel admits exists and is "doing everything they can" to eliminate?

Your inability to move past the denial stage sort of leaves you behind in discussions.

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 06:07 PM
including the racial discrimination that Israel admits exists and is "doing everything they can" to eliminate?

Your inability to move past the denial stage sort of leaves you behind in discussions.

Did you read that on Wikipedia, son?

The Fool
3rd May 2009, 06:22 PM
Did you read that on Wikipedia, son?

Is this the limit of your input now? Simple denial in the face of reality?

The racial discrimination in Israel the education system (for example) has been Identified in this thread and also acknowledged by the Israeli government. You are a little behind the times with the topics that you are supposed to be in denial about. This one has moved on from "its not happening" to "we are doing all we can".....you need to keep up.


you seem to have reverted to simple ad-homs in all your posts after impersonating children failed.....Not long to go now.....I won't miss you when you are gone

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 06:27 PM
Is this the limit of your input now? Simple denial in the face of reality?

The racial discrimination in Israel the education system (for example) has been Identified in this thread and also acknowledged by the Israeli government. You are a little behind the times with the topics that you are supposed to be in denial about. This one has moved on from "its not happening" to "we are doing all we can".....you need to keep up.

How many years have you lived in Israel, son? Your posts, too, reflect no insight into Israeli society.

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 06:34 PM
Is this the limit of your input now? Simple denial in the face of reality?

The racial discrimination in Israel the education system (for example) has been Identified in this thread and also acknowledged by the Israeli government. You are a little behind the times with the topics that you are supposed to be in denial about. This one has moved on from "its not happening" to "we are doing all we can".....you need to keep up.


you seem to have reverted to simple ad-homs in all your posts after impersonating children failed.....Not long to go now.....I won't miss you when you are gone

How much time have you spent in Israel, son?

Thunder
3rd May 2009, 06:44 PM
Rubinstein is basically saying that: "if you have never spent any time in a country, you have NO right to condemn any of its actions or pass judgement."

oh, but..

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4651850#post4651850
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4649079#post4649079
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4651953#post4651953

Ever been in Jordan, Syria, Turkey, and Kuwait...Rubinstein? You sure seem comfortable talking about their horrible human rights records.

Someone just got owned!!

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 06:56 PM
Rubinstein is basically saying that: "if you have never spent any time in a country, you have NO right to condemn any of its actions or pass judgement."

oh, but..

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4651850#post4651850
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4649079#post4649079
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4651953#post4651953

Ever been in Jordan, Syria, Turkey, and Kuwait...Rubinstein? You sure seem comfortable talking about their horrible human rights records.

Someone just got owned!!

I lived in the Middle East for ten years and, yes, have traveled througout, except for Syria.

The Fool
3rd May 2009, 07:37 PM
How much time have you spent in Israel, son?
Never been there...but when the Israeli Government acknowledges the problems in the Education system I think rather silly for someone to get stuck in the denial stage. do you agree? Time to move on?

Marc39
3rd May 2009, 07:55 PM
Never been there...but when the Israeli Government acknowledges the problems in the Education system I think rather silly for someone to get stuck in the denial stage. do you agree? Time to move on?

Removed breach of Rule 12
As for any issues with Israel's school system, the impression that a few posters, none of whom has ever been to Israel, have attempted to create is any issues represent governmental policy. Wrong. If you really had even a scintilla of insight into Israeli society, you would know that Jews and Arabs tend to live separate lives. They gravitate away from one another. Schools, naturally, reflect this social arrangement. The intent is to try to paint a picture of a systematically discriminatory policy toward Arabs. Not true. So much so, if I could choose between living in Israel as an Arab or as a Jew, I'd have to think long and hard. I might even choose being an Arab.

The Fool
3rd May 2009, 08:09 PM
Removed breach of Rule 12

Actually my obsession is with true believers, people that can look at something sitting in front of them and deny it is there. Fascinating people. I am trying to understand why you need to do it..


As for any issues with Israel's school system, the impression that a few posters, none of whom has ever been to Israel, have attempted to create is any issues represent governmental policy. Wrong.
see there you go.....funding levels set by government are not government policy....fascinating.


If you really had even a scintilla of insight into Israeli society, you would know that Jews and Arabs tend to live separate lives. They gravitate away from one another. Schools, naturally, reflect this social arrangement. The intent is to try to paint a picture of a systematically discriminatory policy toward Arabs. Not true. So much so, if I could choose between living in Israel as an Arab or as a Jew, I'd have to think long and hard. I might even choose being an Arab.not quite sure what you are trying to say here...the undisputed fact that Israel allocates less money to non jewish students is there right in front of you. The elephant in the room. In the scramble to clutch some straw that will let you say that government policy is not government policy you put up some vague statement that jews and arabs tend to "gravitate away from one another" darned if I can see how this relates to systematic discrimination in education funding...... I take it you support allocating less per head for non Jewish students....ooops hang on. You can't comment on the difference in funding levels because you are still in denial about it. See what I mean, being in denial will leave you behind, you need to keep up.

The Fool
4th May 2009, 04:32 AM
That's a glib rationale that I'm sure you have at the ready in your back pocket, but, it's aberrant anyway you look at it.

Ok, I'm always willing to listen....tell me a way that you can look at Israeli Government education funding policy and not see Israeli Government Education funding policy. Is it that if you claim you don't see it in the room you won't have to admit its an elephant?




You are not quite sure what I'm saying because you are not quite sure about life in Israel, dear boy.

OK, In response to a laydown hand you tell me that its still not true because....because....I don't know something. Something you can't describe....something I would understand if I knew more about "life in Israel"...something that debunks something without having to actually show its face.

Can I have some?

Gaspode
4th May 2009, 04:54 AM
Some posts moved to AAH (http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=58).

Keep it civil from now on please. Attack the argument, not the arguer.

The Fool
4th May 2009, 04:50 PM
Some posts moved to AAH (http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=58).

Keep it civil from now on please. Attack the argument, not the arguer.


Mate...if you are going to remove posts and issue warnings for ignoring your mod box messages please ensure that your modbox message actually existed before you warn people for ignoring it... you have to understand that the time stamping is not always what it seems. Posts are timestamped with the time when they are finished and not with the time they are started....if you stick up some mod box while I'm posting you can hardly issue me a warning that my post in progress ignored it...... You are warning me for ignoring something that didn't exist...

Marc39
14th May 2009, 09:32 AM
Ok, I'm always willing to listen....tell me a way that you can look at Israeli Government education funding policy and not see Israeli Government Education funding policy. Is it that if you claim you don't see it in the room you won't have to admit its an elephant?





OK, In response to a laydown hand you tell me that its still not true because....because....I don't know something. Something you can't describe....something I would understand if I knew more about "life in Israel"...something that debunks something without having to actually show its face.

Can I have some?

Given your country's ghastly official program of discriminaton lasting nearly three-quarters of a century, known as "White Australia", that was the impetus for S. Africa's apartheid policy, it's more than a little hypocritical to be trying to cast aspersions on Israel, which has never had such a disgraceful discriminatory policy.