CT percetion of world events: all bad things are real, all good things are illusions?

[LightinDarkness]

Has anyone else noticed that it seems, for the woos, that they thrive on bad news and hate good news? CTers seem to thrive off doom and gloom and yet get depressed when good things happen - but it seems to go even beyond this simple distorted view of reality.

Anytime a good event occurs CTers automatically claim that whatever happened was merely a government illusion/plot by the "powers that be" to distract us all. Its hard to empirically test this because what defines good and bad can often be ambiguous, but I think one of the easiest ways to observe this is by looking at CT forum threads on the stock market. I think we can generally assume that markets going up is "good" and markets going down is "bad".

ATS, as usual, provides a good example of this type of lunacy:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread402519/pg1

For example, on a up day:
Okay...will it start to fall?
Has been this time of day for a couple of weeks now or will it hold?

REEKS of manipulation to me.



Are you all paying attention to the volume? It is extremely low for the amount of money being swapped around today. I still, as stated earlier, feel like this is a suckers rally being created by those in the know in order to make money off of the shorts before the change the short rules in the coming weeks. The market shot way up and stabilized and has been stabilized for hours. Thats a big red flag.
NOTE: This was not low volume at all.

And then on down days, everything is perfectly real and its time for everyone to panic and flee for the hills:

okay

We are so Scroomed

And it's not like we couldn't see it coming - if we were paying attention

So now - watch, the Protocols of Zion addicts will be yapping it up

Instead of making sure they have enough to eat

I REALLY hate to say this... but

If you have cash in the bank - get it out TODAY

Monday may be too late


Note on the days that the US markets go down, the CTs celebrate and point out that this is a sign that the end is nigh and the apocalypse is surely at hand (seriously, no exaggeration). Yet, on days when the markets are up - like today - it is bemoaned as Illuminati trickery based on low volume (even though it isn't really low volume) and a government illusion to get us to invest back in the market. This pattern is consistent 100% of the time from what I can see - never is a stock market up day taken as a legitimately "real" good event. Its ALWAYS explained away by being "manipulation" by a shadowy cabal and no one questions this - such posts are actually applauded by fellow woos.

It is a paradox in reasoning. Were anyone powerful enough to truly manipulate the markets there is no reason why they would only manipulate the markets up and never down.

Any thoughts on this?

[1337m4n]

CT percetion of world events: all bad things are real, all good things are illusions?

That about sums it up, yes.




You know, I've been thinking. Since people's perception of how the economy is doing can have real effects on how it actually will do in the future (for instance, changing how much they spend and invest), doesn't that mean that conspiracy theorists in general are harmful to the country's economic well-being?

That's it, I blame Alex Jones for the current economic slump :D.

[T.A.M.]

The woo live life according to the Matrix Doctrine...yes the movie, "The Matrix".

TAM:)

[ElMondoHummus]

I've noticed this too. I don't think it's anything any more notable than simple selectivity bias, however. Their goal is to emphasize the conspiratorial, and downplay the random or positive. It may be a legitimate question to ask if their worldview conditions them to be cynical, or if their cynicism leads them to their suspicious worldview, but the point is that their worldview is colored, and by and large they don't seem to want to take efforts to grow beyond that.

[Caustic Logic]

I've noticed this too. I don't think it's anything any more notable than simple selectivity bias, however. Their goal is to emphasize the conspiratorial, and downplay the random or positive. It may be a legitimate question to ask if their worldview conditions them to be cynical, or if their cynicism leads them to their suspicious worldview, but the point is that their worldview is colored, and by and large they don't seem to want to take efforts to grow beyond that.

Very well put. I'm not conversant enough with the markets problems going on now to address the OP example, but it's from ATS doomers, so we can be fairly sure it's wrong in one way or another. And it illustrates this valid point.

I can understand where they're coming from, and have been sticking up for the potential value of some cynicism and/or paranoia. But man, some people display no ability to check themselves before they wreck themselves. The chicken-and-egg question between cynicism and "suspicious worldview" is interesting - it's obviously a vicious circle once it gets going, but I'd have to guess usually it's the cynicism, picked up from life experience, that comes first.

[Egil]

There was a study recently that sort of proved that Man is primed to find reason for things, see paterns, cause and effect as well as placing a disbodied conciousness as responsible for things (an example of the latter is Star Wars Return of the Jedi when Han Solo steps on the stick as he is sneaking up on the Imperial Trooper and the trooper turning around).

A lot of the CTs I know are Atheists.

CTs and devout Religious People are quiet similar. To a CT when something happens, the Man or NWO caused it. A Devout Religious Person says the Good God Did It or the Bad Guy Did It depending upon what happened.

In effect, CTs are religious people IMO. It is just that their side are on the side of the Good and everyone who is not on their side is on the Side of the Man or NWO.

NWO equals Satan basically.

[Travis]

What's really weird is that by dismissing the good as "illusions" they are basically saying that all there is in the world is "bad." When the economy is good, and their home sports team is winning, it is all just a veneer to placate them while, in the background, secret elements are preparing the very death camp they will eventually be sent to.

It's essentially a logical failsafe to ensure they never start believing that there aren't any sinister powers out there plotting their doom.

[aviolet4u]

What's really weird is that by dismissing the good as "illusions" they are basically saying that all there is in the world is "bad." When the economy is good, and their home sports team is winning, it is all just a veneer to placate them while, in the background, secret elements are preparing the very death camp they will eventually be sent to.

It's essentially a logical failsafe to ensure they never start believing that there aren't any sinister powers out there plotting their doom.

it really is a sad way to live, I don't know how they do it.

I pretend the world isn't out to get me, I rather live in a positive fantasy world than live in constant fear of the coming martial law or alien invasion.

When you actually live in a comfortable environment and have your basic necessities met, why waste that precious time with constant fear? :covereyes

[Travis]

it really is a sad way to live, I don't know how they do it.

I pretend the world isn't out to get me, I rather live in a positive fantasy world than live in constant fear of the coming martial law or alien invasion.

When you actually live in a comfortable environment and have your basic necessities met, why waste that precious time with constant fear? :covereyes

My guess is that they get addicted to it in the same way some people get addicted to being hurt by other things. It is very sad.

The other thing is that with "imagined" enemies they always have something they can organize to fight against like the warrior heroes they imagine themselves to be. Of course their enemies, being imaginary, are something they actually will never have to fight. They can just plan the fight that will never come for forever.

[MG1962]

I saw an interesting example of what you are talking about just this weekend. There are some who claim the UN is using Earth Hour to expand it political influence, even though the actual UN involvement amounted to little more than turning of the lights, then back on again.

When you go to the Earth Hour website, you discover the biggest influence an organisation had was the World Scout movement, who according to the website, organised people in a 160 countries to be involved.

So if you use CT logic. It is not the UN NWO Uliminate etc you need to watch. It is those darn scouts. Who would have thought Bayden Powell was such a radical power hungry maniac.

You are all watching the FEMA death camps. When you should be watching kids who can tie really weird knots and wear funny hats

[1337m4n]

So if you use CT logic. It is not the UN NWO Uliminate etc you need to watch. It is those darn scouts. Who would have thought Bayden Powell was such a radical power hungry maniac.

You are all watching the FEMA death camps. When you should be watching kids who can tie really weird knots and wear funny hats

Hmmm. I'm an Eagle and they've never told me any super-secret evil plans...

There must be a rank that's even higher than Eagle that only those on "the inside" know about.

[MG1962]

Hmmm. I'm an Eagle and they've never told me any super-secret evil plans...

There must be a rank that's even higher than Eagle that only those on "the inside" know about.

So you tell us. If anyone could bring the WTC with a slip knot - The Scouts would be my first pick

[Egil]

Hmmm. I'm an Eagle and they've never told me any super-secret evil plans...

There must be a rank that's even higher than Eagle that only those on "the inside" know about.

Did you got a badge in Therm*te Demolition?

[1337m4n]

Did you got a badge in Therm*te Demolition?

No, but I do have the "Atomic Energy" merit badge...:jaw-dropp

[LightinDarkness]

I saw an interesting example of what you are talking about just this weekend. There are some who claim the UN is using Earth Hour to expand it political influence, even though the actual UN involvement amounted to little more than turning of the lights, then back on again.

When you go to the Earth Hour website, you discover the biggest influence an organisation had was the World Scout movement, who according to the website, organised people in a 160 countries to be involved.

So if you use CT logic. It is not the UN NWO Uliminate etc you need to watch. It is those darn scouts. Who would have thought Bayden Powell was such a radical power hungry maniac.

You are all watching the FEMA death camps. When you should be watching kids who can tie really weird knots and wear funny hats


Thats an excellent example. I am beginning to think that not only is it CT nature to turn everything "good" into some evil conspiracy but its also only possible to be a CT if the theory in question goes against majority opinion.

For example, if tomorrow evidence came out that global warming was over-exaggerated CTs would immediately shift course and decry this as a government plot to warm the earth and kill off half the population by downplaying climate change.

[David Rothscum]

Well, this is what people do, we reinforce our thinking patterns. This happens to anybody, no matter the perspective. We like to see our own ideas and opinion about the way the world works confirmed. For example, when it comes to talking to my left wing friends. I will normally only hear them complain about government policies that have a disproportionate negative impact on the poor. When the government moves towards a flat tax (I'm not living the United States by the way) they will hammer their opinion that the upper class is making the lower class and the middle class pay for their losses on the stock market. When the government decides to expand funding for school books you won't hear them say "what a good thing the government has done".

And I guess it works the same way on the Above Top Secret forum.
These people have an opinion, and when they watch events unfolding they will try to fit them into their model of the world. The same thing happens on the JREF forum. You people came to the conclusion that there was no government involvement in 9/11, while the Truth movement came to the conclusion there was. When German Intelligence agents are caught throwing a hand grenade at an EU office in Kosovo to justify the placement of a European Army (http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSLM220169) the Truth movement will hammer on this event while the JREF forum members will ignore it or try to find an alternative explanation for it. You could just as well say that your perception of world events is that all conspiracy theories are fake while all lone nutcase theories are truthful. In other words, that mildly bad news is real while really bad news is wrong.

Anyway, as always these people have a good point at the core, the problem is when you become aware of a pattern you start applying it too much. The commodities market for example is manipulated by Goldman Sachs:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/28816321/the_great_american_bubble_machine/print

[LightinDarkness]

I am glad we have a woo representative to comment on this thread.

Well, this is what people do, we reinforce our thinking patterns. This happens to anybody, no matter the perspective. We like to see our own ideas and opinion about the way the world works confirmed.

No, this isn't normal. This is quite unusual and strange. You see, conspiracy theorists and woos want horrible things to happen. They get excited and extraordinarily gleeful at even the merest prospect of doom, chaos, destruction, etc. in any form. They predict martial law is just around the corner even though it never has been because they want it badly. They want a post-apocalyptic world where finally their nuclear bunker, years of stored food, and RAMBO uniforms will be put to good use as they fight the evil gubment in them.

But it doesn't stop there. When good things do occur, they actively work to make themselves and others believe that this is due a conspiracy plot by "the Elite" to lure us back into a sense of safety. No stock market rally is real, but stock market down collapses are real. No economic good news is real, economic bad news is always real.

This is delusional, and not normal.


For example, when it comes to talking to my left wing friends. I will normally only hear them complain about government policies that have a disproportionate negative impact on the poor. When the government moves towards a flat tax (I'm not living the United States by the way) they will hammer their opinion that the upper class is making the lower class and the middle class pay for their losses on the stock market. When the government decides to expand funding for school books you won't hear them say "what a good thing the government has done".

This metaphor has no relationship to the wishing for doom that CTs do.


And I guess it works the same way on the Above Top Secret forum.
These people have an opinion, and when they watch events unfolding they will try to fit them into their model of the world. The same thing happens on the JREF forum.

Yeah, you've lost it - when reality keeps slapping you in the face and you keep wishing for the apocalypse anyways its delusional, not normal.


You people came to the conclusion that there was no government involvement in 9/11, while the Truth movement came to the conclusion there was. When German Intelligence agents are caught throwing a hand grenade at an EU office in Kosovo to justify the placement of a European Army (http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSLM220169) the Truth movement will hammer on this event while the JREF forum members will ignore it or try to find an alternative explanation for it.

Hasn't been ignored, if you'd like to post it in the 9/11 forum JREFers will be happy to debunk your notion that this somehow supports the twoof movement.


Anyway, as always these people have a good point at the core, the problem is when you become aware of a pattern you start applying it too much. The commodities market for example is manipulated by Goldman Sachs:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/28816321/the_great_american_bubble_machine/print

A rolling stone magazine article is proof Goldman Sachs manipulates the commodities market? Wow, no. Try again.

Anyways, your entire point is completely wrong - they don't have a good point at the core, they are wrong.

[Blender Head]

A rolling stone [sic] magazine article is proof Goldman Sachs manipulates the commodities market? Wow, no. Try again.

While in no way defending Rothscum's point, what does the RS article get wrong (I haven't read it)?

[LightinDarkness]

While in no way defending Rothscum's point, what does the RS article get wrong (I haven't read it)?

Its made the CT circuit ever since it came out - basically, its a mainstream conspiracy theory article that doesn't prove what CTers believe it does (that Goldman Sachs is somehow responsible for every macro economic problems we've ever had through purposely causing bubbles and then running when they burst).

Even on the most basic financial level, it fails to understand the math: any bank which participates in a financial bubble will get slammed when it pops. There is no escaping. No amount of bail outs from the government (which is what I'm sure the author's article would tell us would be the bank's way of still profiting from it) is able to make up for the loses. When we compare total global net losses of the real estate bubble, compared to the income from the bail outs, we are no where close to even being even. So if Goldman Sachs is orchestrating the CTer classic "evil banker conspiracy" of causing bubbles and profiting from them bursting, then the evil bankers are all rather stupid and fail completely at their scheme.

Its even below Rolling Stones own standards, and if it wasn't for the hysterical "grab the torch and pitchfork" populism that has been all the rage lately it wouldn't have been published.

[dudalb]

The woo live life according to the Matrix Doctrine...yes the movie, "The Matrix".

TAM:)


WHich is why 9/11 Truther sites are so full of Matrix references.
Never understood the obssesion with Neo, though. If I was going to fantasize about being a hero fighting vast evil conspiracies, I would want to be James Bond. He has a lot more fun then Neo, and get the cute chick at the end of the movie....

[JihadJane]

Its hard to empirically test this because what defines good and bad can often be ambiguous, but I think one of the easiest ways to observe this is by looking at CT forum threads on the stock market. I think we can generally assume that markets going up is "good" and markets going down is "bad".



Can we?.

The stock market is not the economy.

The economy has been getting progressively getting worse yet the stock market has gone up.

What does that say?

[dudalb]

Well, speak of the devil.....