European Fear of the Gathering Jihad

[Jedi Knight]

Is the European fear of war in Iraq simply an excuse (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6262) to keep radical regimes in the middle east in power so they attack Israel?

The article also points out that supporting Iraq and other radical Islamist states may be interpreted by radical Islamists that Europe is an ally and maybe, just maybe, the radical Islamists won't attack them. (Chamberlainism) + (appeasement)?

JK

UTTER MORON.

Iraq is a SECULAR dictatorship. It is NOT a 'radical Islamic regime'.

As for your "theory", I can assure you nobody in Europe "supports Iraq". They are anti-American and anti-war, not pro-Saddam.

Did you ever have a brain? Or where you born without one?

'De Gaulle’s vision intended to restore to France a dominant role in international affairs by the construction of a strong and united Europe as a counter-weight to American power'

That one part of the statement says it all very clearly another ego conflict and a scary one too.:eek:

This is going all horridly wrong, it's not about helping those whom are being victimized by a tyrant or his hide and seek maneuvers with probable bad weapons, but it's a far more sinister battle of the political egos.

:mad:

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by UndercoverElephant
UTTER MORON.

Iraq is a SECULAR dictatorship. It is NOT a 'radical Islamic regime'.

As for your "theory", I can assure you nobody in Europe "supports Iraq". They are anti-American and anti-war, not pro-Saddam.

Did you ever have a brain? Or where you born without one?

Gosh UCE, didn't you tell me in another thread you were no longer going to reply to me? :D

Maybe it is about time you took those rose colored glasses off and let some reality through. :)

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Pie
'De Gaulle’s vision intended to restore to France a dominant role in international affairs by the construction of a strong and united Europe as a counter-weight to American power'

That one part of the statement says it all very clearly another ego conflict and a scary one too.:eek:

This is going all horridly wrong, it's not about helping those whom are being victimized by a tyrant or his hide and seek maneuvers with probable bad weapons, but it's a far more sinister battle of the political egos.

:mad:




Hi Pie ;)

JK

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Hi Pie ;)

JK

Hi JK;);):p



Is the European fear of war in Iraq simply an excuse to keep radical regimes in the middle east in power so they attack Israel? I wouldn't say it is fear more down to, the way Bush went after Saddam after Soggy bin liner disappeared, 911 should never have happened but from many peoples views they see Saddam being used as a scapegoat to a bruised ego. Also it is after all Saddam who wants a war, he knows why start it himself when he can coerce Bush into starting it. Thats the scary part. Why would that make them attack Israel, if they wanted to they would have already surely?

The article also points out that supporting Iraq and other radical Islams states may be interpreted by radical Islamics that Europe is an ally and maybe, just maybe, the radical Islamics won't attack them. (Chamberlainism) + (appeasement)?
That is plausible excuse and it has worked before, why rock the boat and best to keep quiet and head down philosophy, Many countries have used the same before, but Europe is not an ally to Iraq they may have supporter but just because Europe (bar England) wont actively support the Bush/Blair campaign does not make them allies at all.

Pie


I wouldn't say it is fear more down to, the way Bush went after Saddam after Soggy bin liner disappeared, 911 should never have happened but from many peoples views they see Saddam being used as a scapegoat to a bruised ego.


Yep. Bin Laden must be loving every moment of it. OBL also wants rid of Saddam, but since his #1 enemy is the US he wins twice in the current situation (that makes three times altogether WIN - WIN - WIN). He gets rids of Saddam, and at the same time there is an international tidal wave of anti-Americanism. All OBL has to do is sit in his cave and chuckle.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by UndercoverElephant
Pie



Yep. Bin Laden must be loving every moment of it. OBL also wants rid of Saddam, but since his #1 enemy is the US he wins twice in the current situation (that makes three times altogether WIN - WIN - WIN). He gets rids of Saddam, and at the same time there is an international tidal wave of anti-Americanism. All OBL has to do is sit in his cave and chuckle.

What is a guy worth $400 million chuckling about in a cave? Is Allah in there with him?

Tell me why Osama is "celebrating" the "diversity" of his cave status.

JK

Originally posted by UndercoverElephant
Pie



Yep. Bin Laden must be loving every moment of it. OBL also wants rid of Saddam, but since his #1 enemy is the US he wins twice in the current situation (that makes three times altogether WIN - WIN - WIN). He gets rids of Saddam, and at the same time there is an international tidal wave of anti-Americanism. All OBL has to do is sit in his cave and chuckle.

Freaky:eek: who is pulling whose strings in this?:rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes:

I would say the soggy bin liner is.
Didn't the American somethings train him?

I wouldn't say he is in a cave, I would suspect he is in Europe possibly England. Languishing in luxury and yes chuckling and plotting.:mad:

[Flo]

Originally posted by Pie


Freaky:eek: who is pulling whose strings in this?:rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes:

I would say the soggy bin liner is.
Didn't the American somethings train him?

I wouldn't say he is in a cave, I would suspect he is in Europe possibly England. Languishing in luxury and yes chuckling and plotting.:mad:


Or Switzerland. But more likely Sudan or Somalia. Anyway, I agree he must be really happy with the way things are developping and everybody is playing into his (organisation's) hands: whatever the outcome, he (they) won't lack new recruits ...:mad:

[The Fool]

Lol......Jedi, you were going so well there for a few days. I guess its hard for a troll to behave any other way. You were bound to revert to pointless attention seeking eventually....and you seemed to be trying so hard...Oh well, I suppose this forum needs Idiots to keep the demographics balanced

[PogoPedant]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Is the European fear of war in Iraq simply an excuse (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6262) to keep radical regimes in the middle east in power so they attack Israel?

The article also points out that supporting Iraq and other radical Islamist states may be interpreted by radical Islamists that Europe is an ally and maybe, just maybe, the radical Islamists won't attack them. (Chamberlainism) + (appeasement)?

JK

Do you remember back to the last jihad of any worth? It was back in the late twelve hundreds, around the time when Baybvars and his Mamluks came to power in Egypt. As far as I can remember, it was a reaction (albeit tardy) to the repeated invasions into muslim lands by christian powers. Considering that Ossie apparently launched his little war against the US based in part on the presence of US military bases in Saudi Arabia, and that the time of the Crusades is not forgotten in the Middle East, an attack on Iraq might easily be construed as a continuation of western hostilities against the 'Protectors of the Faith'. Furthermore, if the US makes good on the rumours that they will institute a puppet interim government in Iraq after an invasion, parallels become painfully obvious.
In the time before the Crusades, jihad was a rally-cry that muslim princes would use to raise armies or public interest in whatever project they may have had. The cry would mostly go unheard. After the Franj had made their presence clear, and it was obvious that the muslim world was indeed in danger, jihad became all the more powerfull. In fact, two hundred years after the final crusade, the muslims were still waging holy war against the west. Do we want to wake this giant again?

[CapelDodger]

Some Americans display a very strange idea of what Europe is like. It is actually on planet Earth. Bin Laden is not in Europe - I don't have definitive evidence, but I'm prepared to stick my neck out and put my reputation for inerrancy on the line with that. This thread seems to be a reference to the mythical anti-semitism of Europe. There seem to be two primary roots of this myth: most European countries do not have a knee-jerk pro-Zionist response to any Palestinian issue, and,(most bizarrely) Jean-Marie Le Pen. Nobody expects sense out of Jedi Knight but Pie - is your comment about England tongue-in-cheek? (I don't have an axe to grind on that, since I'm from Wales.)

[richardm]

Originally posted by CapelDodger
This thread seems to be a reference to the mythical anti-semitism of Europe.

I'm not so sure that it's all that mythical, Capel. There is a long history of pogroms against Jews in Europe (Including England).

Originally posted by CapelDodger
Nobody expects sense out of Jedi Knight but Pie - is your comment about England tongue-in-cheek? (I don't have an axe to grind on that, since I'm from Wales.)

Capeldoger what comment about England?

croeso cymraeg dyn/benyw (?)

[Barkhorn1x]

Originally posted by Flo

...whatever the outcome, he (they) won't lack new recruits ...:mad:

Oh please - this is just another excuse for inaction.

Reality check;

1. Muslim extremists ALREADY hate the US - it has little to do w/ Iraq.
2. This same line of reasoning was trotted out as an excuse for not attacking the Taliban - those who espoused it were wrong.
3. The Iraqi people WANT a regime change - that's right you heard me.


Hitchens puts it quite well here;
http://slate.msn.com/id/2078162/

And he knows a bit more about it than you or I.

You know has become tiresome to have to refute the same excuses over and over again.

Barkhorn.

[Flo]

Originally posted by Barkhorn1x


Oh please - this is just another excuse for inaction.

Reality check;

1. Muslim extremists ALREADY hate the US - it has little to do w/ Iraq.
2. This same line of reasoning was trotted out as an excuse for not attacking the Taliban - those who espoused it were wrong.
3. The Iraqi people WANT a regime change - that's right you heard me.


Hitchens puts it quite well here;
http://slate.msn.com/id/2078162/

And he knows a bit more about it than you or I.

You know has become tiresome to have to refute the same excuses over and over again.

Barkhorn.


1) agreed. However Iraq will be used as one more pretext to lure more young not-yet-fanatical muslims into the organisation, as is the situation in Israel, Ivory-Coast, or the Columbia disaster (I'm unfortunately not joking).

2) wrong on what ? that more attacks like 9/11 would be the immediate consequence ? true. That AQ would gain support among moderate muslims ? that is a very real possibility, especially given the situation of Afghanistan at the moment, and the recent outburst from some Afghani warlords are not very encouraging.

3) agreed. I even posted a link to a Guardian article about it. However, if you listen to Iraqi people, they'd like it without having to be flattened under bombs in the process. Don't expect Americans to be welcome for more than a few weeks, like in Afghanistan, if civilian casualties are high and the local populations don't see an immediate improvement in their situation. Iraqi are much more educated and informed than Afghanis.


That said, I didn't mean to condone inaction (not that I condone the current course of action either), I was just commenting that OBL and AQ were without a doubt making new recruits at every turn of the situation.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by PogoPedant


Do you remember back to the last jihad of any worth? It was back in the late twelve hundreds, around the time when Baybvars and his Mamluks came to power in Egypt. As far as I can remember, it was a reaction (albeit tardy) to the repeated invasions into muslim lands by christian powers. Considering that Ossie apparently launched his little war against the US based in part on the presence of US military bases in Saudi Arabia, and that the time of the Crusades is not forgotten in the Middle East, an attack on Iraq might easily be construed as a continuation of western hostilities against the 'Protectors of the Faith'. Furthermore, if the US makes good on the rumours that they will institute a puppet interim government in Iraq after an invasion, parallels become painfully obvious.
In the time before the Crusades, jihad was a rally-cry that muslim princes would use to raise armies or public interest in whatever project they may have had. The cry would mostly go unheard. After the Franj had made their presence clear, and it was obvious that the muslim world was indeed in danger, jihad became all the more powerfull. In fact, two hundred years after the final crusade, the muslims were still waging holy war against the west. Do we want to wake this giant again?

Hey, nice historical observations. One of my degrees is in history because I found it an attractive discipline.

That said, there is no comparison between the Crusades and the current conflict. The global Christain leader, the Pope, has openly stated the church's revulsion of war. There has to be a Christian leader with open religious war objectives engaging the Muslim populations for any conflict to be a "holy Christian war".

What has brought the war to the United States is antisemitism. It is American support for the State of Israel that forms a hatred in Muslims brainwashed by the Koran and other religious psuedo-doctrine. I can't think of a single terrorist organization outside of the middle east that is an active terrorist group. The only Christian terrorist organizations operating freely are in Lebanon, Sudan and some other countries along the North African rim.

That said, it has to be stated clearly that the US nurturing of the State of Israel is the real cause of agression against the United States because the radical Islamists want the US removed from protecting Israel so that Israel can be destroyed.

If America was on a Crusade against Muslims, why did the US use extensive military force and cripple Serbia with laser-guided bombs to stop the genocide against Muslims there? Ah, but how soon everyone forgets. Then there is Afghanistan. When the Taliban was in power, right before 9/11, the United States was the largest contributor of humanitarian aid to Afghanistan. Ah, but how soon everyone forgets.

Radical Islam has attacked the United States and in the identifying of that perversion, opponents of US self-defense claim that any action by the United States is somehow a "Crusade".

No, the real truth is that radical Islam, in its antisemitic rampages, tells adherent's to kill "all non-believers, the infidels", and then when the non-believers of that perversion resist they mystically become "Crusaders" on a "Crusade". Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Radical Islam picked a fight--they chose it--now they will encounter a worthy opponent in the ring. It is what radical Islam wanted. They wanted this fight. Radical islam operating through Osama Bin Ladin, the PLO and Europe had the State of Israel in the crosshairs. Those antisemitic elements may have been successful if they left the brainwashed US internal populations (who do nothing but "celebrate" everything that isn't American) alone, but alas, they attacked the WTC and made a play for Washington, DC, possibly the White House, and now the gates of hell have opened up and radical Islam is reaping the whirlwind.

It is not a new Crusade. It is defending the sovereign. It is a 7th century collection of states picking a fight with a 21st century state. We wiped out Afghanistan in less than three months. If we were really on a Crusade, we could destroy the entire Islamic global power structure in a year, irretrievably castrating it.

Osama shouldn't have attacked the US. The European antisemites with their radical Islamic bretheren might have pulled off the creation of a new PLO terror state and the liquidation of the State of Israel. But Osama wasn't thinking. That is what happens when people live in the 7th century and calling those who defend the sovereign "Crusaders" might sound cool, but an unreality.

If Jew haters in Europe and the middle east left Israel alone, the US wouldn't even be deploying the most powerful military force in the history of mankind over to the region. Islamic pseudo-ideology started it.

JK

[CapelDodger]

From Pie:
Capeldoger what comment about England?

I would suspect he is in Europe possibly England

That one, re Bin Laden. The weather, the food, the English, Manchester United ... surely not.

[CapelDodger]

From richardm:
There is a long history of pogroms against Jews in Europe (Including England).

That would be Edward I in England, I assume. Not exactly contemporary (and the Welsh had a hard time from him as well). Of course, Christianity has been anti-semitic since the Jerusalem Church got whacked by the Romans, but most churches don't make a big noise about it these days. There are Hitler groupies around (mostly young and ignorant) just as there are in the US, but a vanishingly small number. Anti-Islamism is the modern phenomenon.

[CapelDodger]

from Barkhorn1x

1. Muslim extremists ALREADY hate the US - it has little to do w/ Iraq.

I'm with Barkhorn1x on this. If the Iraq war goes well, and the Iraqi people clearly benfit in the aftermath, there'll be a lot of people quietly retreating from their current positions. The likely recruits for Islamist extremism are not going to be influenced by the fall of a secular, anti-Islamic regime (and remember Saddam was never seen in a mosque, as far as I know, until he realised the US wasn't going to fold on Kuwait). Ba'athists have never looked kindly on power-bases, like osques, that they don't control. If the Iraq war doesn't go well, any extra Islamist terrorism isn't going to make much of a difference. And these people will attack whenever they can anyway. So the outcome, in terms of terrorism, could be very positive or slightly negative.

Originally posted by CapelDodger
From Pie:




That one, re Bin Laden. The weather, the food, the English, Manchester United ... surely not.

lol Hell why am I here in england still. Can anybody put me up I don't want the weather the food or manchester united either.:( I will be good and take out the trash honest:D


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That one, no I was being deadly serious for once, where I am so far 15 of his brigade have been arrested, (news via radio) they seem to be harbouring here so why not him?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Pie
'De Gaulle’s vision intended to restore to France a dominant role in international affairs by the construction of a strong and united Europe as a counter-weight to American power'

That one part of the statement says it all very clearly another ego conflict and a scary one too.:eek:

This is going all horridly wrong, it's not about helping those whom are being victimized by a tyrant or his hide and seek maneuvers with probable bad weapons, but it's a far more sinister battle of the political egos.

:mad:




like i've been saying, this all reminds me of the build up to WWI. Egos raging, objectives unclear, results unclear, people welcoming the violence.

as for europe wanting to be a force comparable to American, what else would you expect?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


What is a guy worth $400 million chuckling about in a cave? Is Allah in there with him?

Tell me why Osama is "celebrating" the "diversity" of his cave status.

JK

because he doesn't care about the money, or the cave. he is hoping that the gulf war will stir up anti US resentment and fanatacism.

Now, who knows what will happen.

It could all go really well. No one really likes Saddam, even the other arab countries. The US could walk in, conquer the country quickly, as Iraq is still relatively stable, unlike afghanistan, a responsible government could come in and run it well. Muslim extremists will be ignored by the rest of the muslims who recognise Saddam as being a tyrant who finally got what was coming to him.

It could also go badly. Many civilians die due to bad intelligence resulting in bomb shelters being targetted. Muslim extremists destabilise Turkey. Iraq splits up into warring factions. The US comes out looking like an insensitive bully only interested in it's own needs.

Who knows? Is this a gamble, or is it reasonably predictable?

Originally posted by a_unique_person


like i've been saying, this all reminds me of the build up to WWI. Egos raging, objectives unclear, results unclear, people welcoming the violence.

as for europe wanting to be a force comparable to American, what else would you expect?
does that mean you agree with me AUP and I was right?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Pie

does that mean you agree with me AUP and I was right?

Yep, I here by bestow you with the Unique seal of approval. Don't tell anyone, though, you might lose some credibility.

I have a cousin who married an englishman. She can't stand the English winters.

So are you from the US and stuck in England?

[PogoPedant]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

That said, there is no comparison between the Crusades and the current conflict. The global Christain leader, the Pope, has openly stated the church's revulsion of war. There has to be a Christian leader with open religious war objectives engaging the Muslim populations for any conflict to be a "holy Christian war".
What has brought the war to the United States is antisemitism. It is American support for the State of Israel that forms a hatred in Muslims brainwashed by the Koran and other religious psuedo-doctrine. I can't think of a single terrorist organization outside of the middle east that is an active terrorist group. The only Christian terrorist organizations operating freely are in Lebanon, Sudan and some other countries along the North African rim.

That said, it has to be stated clearly that the US nurturing of the State of Israel is the real cause of agression against the United States because the radical Islamists want the US removed from protecting Israel so that Israel can be destroyed.

If America was on a Crusade against Muslims, why did the US use extensive military force and cripple Serbia with laser-guided bombs to stop the genocide against Muslims there? Ah, but how soon everyone forgets. Then there is Afghanistan. When the Taliban was in power, right before 9/11, the United States was the largest contributor of humanitarian aid to Afghanistan. Ah, but how soon everyone forgets.

Radical Islam has attacked the United States and in the identifying of that perversion, opponents of US self-defense claim that any action by the United States is somehow a "Crusade".

No, the real truth is that radical Islam, in its antisemitic rampages, tells adherent's to kill "all non-believers, the infidels", and then when the non-believers of that perversion resist they mystically become "Crusaders" on a "Crusade". Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Radical Islam picked a fight--they chose it--now they will encounter a worthy opponent in the ring. It is what radical Islam wanted. They wanted this fight. Radical islam operating through Osama Bin Ladin, the PLO and Europe had the State of Israel in the crosshairs. Those antisemitic elements may have been successful if they left the brainwashed US internal populations (who do nothing but "celebrate" everything that isn't American) alone, but alas, they attacked the WTC and made a play for Washington, DC, possibly the White House, and now the gates of hell have opened up and radical Islam is reaping the whirlwind.

It is not a new Crusade. It is defending the sovereign. It is a 7th century collection of states picking a fight with a 21st century state. We wiped out Afghanistan in less than three months. If we were really on a Crusade, we could destroy the entire Islamic global power structure in a year, irretrievably castrating it.

Osama shouldn't have attacked the US. The European antisemites with their radical Islamic bretheren might have pulled off the creation of a new PLO terror state and the liquidation of the State of Israel. But Osama wasn't thinking. That is what happens when people live in the 7th century and calling those who defend the sovereign "Crusaders" might sound cool, but an unreality.

If Jew haters in Europe and the middle east left Israel alone, the US wouldn't even be deploying the most powerful military force in the history of mankind over to the region. Islamic pseudo-ideology started it.

JK
Jedi Knight,

I'll not comment on the majority of this post, as I think we agree on most of it. The US has not launched another Crusade.
The reason I brought it up was that there are some parallells that can be made. The Franj erected states in the Middle East. It was this that pissed the muslims off enough to rile up massive resistance, and in the end a counter attack. If the US instates a puppet-governement in Iraq, it'll be far too easy for some random demagogue to use this to create more dangerous anti-americanisms, and possibly even another jihad.

Oh, and I do belive the IRA is still active, though I couldn't be sure....

Pogo

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by PogoPedant

Jedi Knight,

I'll not comment on the majority of this post, as I think we agree on most of it. The US has not launched another Crusade.
The reason I brought it up was that there are some parallells that can be made. The Franj erected states in the Middle East. It was this that pissed the muslims off enough to rile up massive resistance, and in the end a counter attack. If the US instates a puppet-governement in Iraq, it'll be far too easy for some random demagogue to use this to create more dangerous anti-americanisms, and possibly even another jihad.

Oh, and I do belive the IRA is still active, though I couldn't be sure....

Pogo

I agree with you. When the State of Israel was erected in the middle east, the Muslim populations went insane. That is why they attacked the United States.

I think that it is time for those radical states to learn a little tolerance and I am not particularly concerned about a massive uprising of the populations over there. I think that is just a veiled threat with no substance.

Most of the Muslims around the world want to be pulled out of their 7th century lives and join the modern world.

What the UN needs to do is inform the radical Islamists that Israel is not going away. The sooner the radical anti-Jewish states states finally get that through their heads, the better. It is a reality pill.

Now, if the radical Islamists still want a war after that, well, no problem. The US will bring the 21st Century war to them. The US will win. It is Roswell technology vs. pitch-forks.

JK

[Reginald]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


It is Roswell technology vs. pitch-forks.

JK

It isn't though is it?

Its Millions of dollars of kit vs....

Box-cutters, Radioactive parcels the size of a shoe box that can kill 1000's, Shoes with explosive in, car bombs, hostages, Chemicals that 2 men can make in a shed that can kill or maim 100's, its lumps of radioactive waste that lay around the ex-ussr that make the place glow like an xmas tree, it's no western person being safe in half the world.

Jedi, if all the bad guys stood up in plain sight with a pitchfork, you would be half right. But they don't do they??

At least not outside of films they dont. Sorry.

editited coz I missed out a word

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Reginald


It isn't though is it?

Its Millions of dollars of kit vs....

Box-cutters, Radioactive parcels the size of a shoe box that can kill 1000's, Shoes with explosive in, car bombs, hostages, Chemicals that 2 men can make in a shed that can kill or maim 100's, its lumps of radioactive waste that lay around the ex-ussr that make the place glow like an xmas tree, it's no western person being safe in half the world.

Jedi, if all the bad guys stood up in plain sight with a pitchfork, you would be half right. But they don't do they??

At least not outside of films they dont. Sorry.

editited coz I missed out a word

Well, that is the difference between your opinion and my facts. You claim that no change can be made to the current political climate that drives these radical Islamists to conduct terrorist acts.

That is the wrong side of the fence to be hanging out on.

We can change the political climate through covert unconventional warfare, and conventional warfare against the state actors that support terrorism.

It was a major mistake for the leftist media to label the enemy as "terrorism" as if terrorism was some intangible enemy that was free to act with a will of impunity. That is not correct. Men and women are the instruments of terrorism, the soldiers of terrorism and there are nation-states that back them. The reason that the leftist media said the enemy is "terrorism" without making a human connection to it is because of Orwellian political correctness. When thousands of innocent people are roasted alive inside a skyscraper, "the people" are to be conditioned via the leftist media that it is "terrorism" without a human being or collection of human beings behind it. Or maybe just one guy like Osama, but don't anyone dare talk negatively about the perversion of the religion of Islam which is probably a religion of the likes of Satan.

Since terrorists are real flesh and blood, they bleed and can be hunted down like the animals they are and bullets can be sent through their bodies at 2600 feet per second with assault rifles.

That is where you and I differ. The reason the United States will win this war against terrorism is because the terrorists have made a tremendous mistake. The terrorists believe that we did not have the will to send covert and overt forces after them to hunt them down.

The nation-states that support terrorism are in grave danger. The only real interest these states have is the destruction of Israel, but the leaders of these states are solely interested in maintaining their personal holds on power. The United States will begin to tap into that selfishness by liquidating some of these states and the others will fall in line or meet a similar fate. That means that those states that survive will form an internal security apparatus which will help stop terror. If the terrorists have no friendly governments to provide them a safe place to plan and execute their acts, the acts will decrease.

That is what the global war on terrorism is leading to. Terrorists are not super soldiers. They are whimpering asthmatics that can be easily hunted and liquidated. We just eliminated thousands of them in Afghanistan. Osama is hanging out in some cave somewhere while tens of thousands of soldiers and hundreds of thousands of head-hunters are looking for him everywhere.

I guess I do not agree with your outlook on the matter but I must admit I am excited the US military is on the move again spreading the idea of America.

JK

[Reginald]

Well, that is the difference between your opinion and my facts. You claim that no change can be made to the current political climate that drives these radical Islamists to conduct terrorist acts.

Sorry? Where did I claim that? I believe that the political climate can be changed with diplomatic pressure backed up with the use of force as a last resort.

Would these facts have anything to do with Roswell technology?

When thousands of innocent people are roasted alive inside a skyscraper

There is no need to resort to this, the events were horrific enough as they were without adding your emotional licence.

the perversion of the religion of Islam which is probably a religion of the likes of Satan

Well not all of islam, but I agree on one point, Any religion can do without bigots and zealots, you know the hyper intollerant type I mean?

Since terrorists are real flesh and blood, they bleed and can be hunted down like the animals they are and bullets can be sent through their bodies at 2600 feet per second with assault rifles.

Better get a box of tissues ready, you may be needing them.


The only real interest these states have is the destruction of Israel, but the leaders of these states are solely interested in maintaining their personal holds on power.

Blimey! I didn't realise that North Korea was in anyway interested in Israel!! That comes as a bit of a shock! Or are you claiming that all the axis of evil are islamic now??

And on the second part there. I suppose Tony Blair and GW really couldn't give a hoot about holding on to their personal power?? I will take it that they will both decline to stand in the next elections held then??

The United States will begin to tap into that selfishness by liquidating some of these states and the others will fall in line or meet a similar fate. That means that those states that survive will form an internal security apparatus which will help stop terror. If the terrorists have no friendly governments to provide them a safe place to plan and execute their acts, the acts will decrease.

Some terrorists are quite resourceful, some dont need the support of one of your evil nations, some will just make do with what they can lay their hands on at home. In forcing change you may well have a proportion of the populace who have tasted this power and may be prepared to be that bit more radical to try and get it back, or even seek revenge for having it taken from them in the first place. Just a thought.

Terrorists are not super soldiers. They are whimpering asthmatics that can be easily hunted and liquidated.

Not super soldiers no, they seem to have absolutely no fear of death though. Never underestimate the enemy.

We just eliminated thousands of them in Afghanistan. Osama is hanging out in some cave somewhere while tens of thousands of soldiers and hundreds of thousands of head-hunters are looking for him everywhere.

Maybe we had better put hundreds of thousands on it then, he's still at large. You Hope he is living in a cave, I do too in all honesty, however I feel I am realistic enough to see that he isn't. Its a nice image, sick and cold, damp tired to the point of death. But that's all that is, an image.

I guess I do not agree with your outlook on the matter but I must admit I am excited the US military is on the move again spreading the idea of America.

Told you to have the tissues handy didn't I !!

Don't make the mistake of thinking that anyone who isn't itching to be the one to put a bullet through the nearest terrorist, is by default a person who is prepared to let terrorism run rife. But I suppose re reading some posts, asking you not to make generalisations is a bit futile. I had to try though.

Edited coz its late and I cant see

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Reginald
Sorry? Where did I claim that? I believe that the political climate can be changed with diplomatic pressure backed up with the use of force as a last resort.

Peace through superior firepower. I learned that first hand in war.

Would these facts have anything to do with Roswell technology?

7th century states cannot defeat 21st century technology. That is where the "Roswell" descriptor comes into play because to many of the enemies of the US overseas in these areas, our military advantage must seem off-world to them.

There is no need to resort to this, the events were horrific enough as they were without adding your emotional licence.

It is historical fact, ready to be repeated over and over when encountering leftist apologist appeasement opinion.

Well not all of islam, but I agree on one point, Any religion can do without bigots and zealots, you know the hyper intollerant type I mean?

True, but only Islam is performing international terrorist acts.

Better get a box of tissues ready, you may be needing them.

Yeah, from tears of joy from the terrorist body-count.

Blimey! I didn't realise that North Korea was in anyway interested in Israel!! That comes as a bit of a shock! Or are you claiming that all the axis of evil are islamic now??

You didn't know North Korea wasn't Islamic? North Korea, Iran and other states had a pact to start pressuring the US to get out of the middle east and to form military contingencies to work against our interests.

And on the second part there. I suppose Tony Blair and GW really couldn't give a hoot about holding on to their personal power?? I will take it that they will both decline to stand in the next elections held then??

Gosh, sophomoric humor lol. So are you saying the US and Britain are terror-states worthy of attack? That is what you are implying.

Some terrorists are quite resourceful, some dont need the support of one of your evil nations, some will just make do with what they can lay their hands on at home. In forcing change you may well have a proportion of the populace who have tasted this power and may be prepared to be that bit more radical to try and get it back, or even seek revenge for having it taken from them in the first place. Just a thought.

You are mistaken. The US is liberating, not subjucating. The only angry middle eastern population is the Palestinians because they have been led down the road of destruction by the PLO and the Europeans who hate Israel. The rest of the middle east, Persia and other states in the region are ripe for liberation and those leaders know it.

Not super soldiers no, they seem to have absolutely no fear of death though. Never underestimate the enemy.

That is why Remington, Colt, and General Dynamics has three shifts running 24/7 to provide the arms and ammunition to put the terrorists all to sleep. American warriors are the most bloodthirsty trained expert killers in the world. The terrorists are wimps and will all be destroyed.

Maybe we had better put hundreds of thousands on it then, he's still at large. You Hope he is living in a cave, I do too in all honesty, however I feel I am realistic enough to see that he isn't. Its a nice image, sick and cold, damp tired to the point of death. But that's all that is, an image.

No, it is reality. He is a nutcase worth 400 million and he has been reduced to living in a cave lol. Think about it.

Told you to have the tissues handy didn't I !!

lol

Don't make the mistake of thinking that anyone who isn't itching to be the one to put a bullet through the nearest terrorist, is by default a person who is prepared to let terrorism run rife. But I suppose re reading some posts, asking you not to make generalisations is a bit futile. I had to try though.

There is only one way to deal with terrorists and that is to eliminate them.

JK

[Reginald]

7th century states cannot defeat 21st century technology. That is where the "Roswell" descriptor comes into play because to many of the enemies of the US overseas in these areas, our military advantage must seem off-world to them.

These would be the same 7th century states that are building the Chemical, Biological and Nuclear weapons that you are so keen blow up. Make your mind up are they 7th Century or Capable of building C,b & N weapons?

True, but only Islam is performing international terrorist acts.

Simply untrue. Do a search for International terrorist organisations and look for yourself.

You didn't know North Korea wasn't Islamic?

:rolleyes:

That is why Remington, Colt, and General Dynamics has three shifts running 24/7 to provide the arms and ammunition to put the terrorists all to sleep. American warriors are the most bloodthirsty trained expert killers in the world. The terrorists are wimps and will all be destroyed.

US soldiers, like UK soldiers are people, they have families, friends, they do a great job. Dont make them out to be some kind of psychopaths. We can all appreciate how good they are without your resorting to emotional licence yet again thank you.

Its simply not possible to "destroy" all terrorists.
You are letting reality slip a little further. And again I ask you not to underestimate the enemy.

No, it is reality. He is a nutcase worth 400 million and he has been reduced to living in a cave lol. Think about it.

I did think about it, thats why I gave you my original answer. Tell me how YOU know he's living in a cave? You claim its a reality, prove it.

[CapelDodger]

From JK:
The only real interest these states have is the destruction of Israel, but the leaders of these states are solely interested in maintaining their personal holds on power.
I'd have thought that, in the states concerned, the leaders' interests are the state's interests. The interest they actually have in the Palestinian cause is vastly exaggerated. They talk up their commitment because their people have an emotional stake in the issue and the matter both diverts them from their real grievances and gives their leaders a fake legitimacy. Any Arab leader in current ascendancy would like to see the end of Israel, but none would like to see it when another Arab leader is going to get the kudos.

You are mistaken. The US is liberating, not subjucating. The only angry middle eastern population is the Palestinians because they have been led down the road of destruction by the PLO and the Europeans who hate Israel

By impcation, what the Palestinians should have done was admit defeat, accept that they had been successfully driven off their ancestral lands and quietly go away. This may be the American way, but I don't see most people in the world being so accepting. You say that the world should leave Israel alone, but the result of that would be the completion of the Zionist enterprise - a Jewish majority on both banks of the Jordan (as stated by Ben Gurion to the Peel Commission in the '30's). Greater Israel, it's often known as. That would require a lot more people shrugging their shoulders, touching their caps to superior might and vanishing off somewhere (Arrakis, perhaps).

This isn't a conspiracy theory; the much-vaunted democracy and media freedom of the Yishuv and Israel means that this has been openly discussed for a century, by the very people and parties that have ruled Israel. The headwaters of the Litani river are in there as well; it's significant that Hezbollah keeps being brought up by the Sharonists when there's no evidence for them acting outside Lebanon. It wasn't Sharon who abandoned Southern Lebanon, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he sends his troops back if and when the Iraq conflict goes off.

Originally posted by a_unique_person


Yep, I here by bestow you with the Unique seal of approval. Don't tell anyone, though, you might lose some credibility.

I have a cousin who married an englishman. She can't stand the English winters.

So are you from the US and stuck in England?

:D :D :D Ow did you have to put the seal there that smarts aup;)
No I am English and stuck in England I tried tunneling out but they found me and put me back again:(

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by CapelDodger
Some Americans display a very strange idea of what Europe is like. It is actually on planet Earth. Bin Laden is not in Europe - I don't have definitive evidence, but I'm prepared to stick my neck out and put my reputation for inerrancy on the line with that. This thread seems to be a reference to the mythical anti-semitism of Europe. There seem to be two primary roots of this myth: most European countries do not have a knee-jerk pro-Zionist response to any Palestinian issue, and,(most bizarrely) Jean-Marie Le Pen. Nobody expects sense out of Jedi Knight but Pie - is your comment about England tongue-in-cheek? (I don't have an axe to grind on that, since I'm from Wales.)

CD,

So you're Welsh?? Damn! I love the Welsh! My brother-in-law has a little sheep farm near Rhayder. I was there 2 years ago, funny thing was...the locals in the pub were very nice to the American guy....but before I opened my mouth they were giving us the evil eye....that had to be because my wifey is English and they apparently could care less for the English. Americans they liked tho! Go figure!

:D ;)
-zilla

[CapelDodger]

So you're Welsh??

Born here, brought up here, my testosterone level goes down when Wales lose at rugby so I guess I'm Welsh.

....that had to be because my wifey is English and they apparently could care less for the English

It's all about a small, culturally different country next to a large one. The Belgians hate the French, the Portuguese hate the Spanish (don't assume Spanish will get you by in Portugal, oh no ... French is better), the Poles hate the Germans and the Russians, poor bastards. There's just bound to be a history there. Theye either crapping on you, being patronising or both.

It's not all one-way. There was for a long time a by-law in Hereford allowing any Welshman found in town after dark to be nailed to the cathedral door. In Shrewsbury they just hanged you. But thanks for all the cattle, guys.