roundhead has requested a thread to defend his slander of the FDNY

[johnny karate]

Start your own thread about the quote i used in your link and i will be glad to respond to it.


Just to review, first he said:
Major Mike McCormack a civil air patrol pilot, who was the one who found the US flag in the rubble, and became a toxic air whistleblower(and got harassed for his troubles)....


"McCormack said that around 75% of police, firemen and rescue personnel that he had personally spoke with now believe there is a cover-up pertaining to 9/11 and that many had been threatened that "if they ever open their mouth their pensions are at risk."

Is he a liar?


Then he said:
I stated they had been threatened, and posted a quote that supports my contention.


Have at it, hoss.

[dtugg]

This should be good.

[roundhead]

I read the quote from Major Mike Mc Cormack and posted it here.

I dont personally know the Major. I have no reason to not believe what he is saying isnt true, so i tend to believe him. Its as simple as that.
If somebody knows something about this guy that would make what he says not believable(such as something he has lied about in his past, etc)i am all ears.
In the meantime, i tend to believe his statement, and take it at face value, until and unless something more credible surfaces to the contrary.
As the guy who started this thread seems to think this statement by the major isnt truthfull, by all means explain what isnt factual about it, and i may well change my opinion on the matter.

[dtugg]

Well guys, roundhead has made himself clear. He thinks that the FDNY and other first responders are sniveling cowards who care more about protecting their pensions than the truth concerning the murder of 3,000 people.

[johnny karate]

The issue is not the truthfulness of the original statement, but rather the manner in which it characterizes the FDNY, with which you seem to be in agreement. Do you still pretend that this statement with which you agree does not characterize the FDNY as cowards? If so, please defend this position.

[roundhead]

The issue is not the truthfulness of the original statement, but rather the manner in which it characterizes the FDNY, with which you seem to be in agreement. Do you still pretend that this statement with which you agree does not characterize the FDNY as cowards? If so, please defend this position.

No, i dont call them cowards, and never have. That is your choice of words, not mine.
I cited a guy who said what he said about possible pressure being applied to these people, its up to you guys to take it however you want to.

[beachnut]

Will 911Truth figure out hearsay is not evidence?
What is the cover-up roundhead is trying to apologize for terrorists now?

What implied cover-up is roundhead supporting now and how does it fit in 911? Will terrorists apologists propose a rational scenario to frame this hearsay quote in?


cherry picked tripe supported with zero evidence, zero rational thought, zero logic, zero meaning


no one is being threatened, no one was under pressure, roundhead is repeating unfounded hearsay. No one believes roundhead’s hearsay tripe because the story would earn a Pulitzer Prize (but never really rounded out by roundhead) in a second!
Talk is cheap backed by zero research save a hearsay quote; got facts

[roundhead]

The issue is not the truthfulness of the original statement, but rather the manner in which it characterizes the FDNY, with which you seem to be in agreement. Do you still pretend that this statement with which you agree does not characterize the FDNY as cowards? If so, please defend this position.

No, i dont call them cowards, and never have. That is your choice of words, not mine.
I cited a guy who said what he said about possible pressure being applied to these people, its up to you guys to take it however you want to.

I take it by your comment that you believe the Major, like i do. If so, what do you make of these hard working firefighters being threatened? Do you like that? Think they should be told to keep their mouths shut?

[nicepants]

McCormack said that around 75% of police, firemen and rescue personnel that he had personally spoke with now believe there is a cover-up pertaining to 9/11 and that many had been threatened that "if they ever open their mouth their pensions are at risk.

Is he a liar?

Sure sounds like BS to me. If McCormack really believed that he'd be turning in those who are aiding the perpetrators by keeping their mouths shut.

I take it by your comment that you believe the Major, like i do. If so, what do you make of these hard working firefighters being threatened? Do you like that? Think they should be told to keep their mouths shut?

I don't think anyone's threatening them. Why would you keep quiet to save your pension if an Oprah appearance/book deal that eclipsed the measely pension would be a sure thing for anyone who came forward?

[roundhead]

Will 911Truth figure out hearsay is not evidence?
What is the cover-up roundhead is trying to apologize for terrorists now?

What implied cover-up is roundhead supporting now and how does it fit in 911? Will terrorists apologists propose a rational scenario to frame this hearsay quote in?

Define implied?

Do you mean the 118 testimonies that those you support fought tooth and nail to tie up in court for years so they wouldnt be known to the public? Do you support that?

If what they said wasnt troublesome, why spend thousands and thousands in taxpayer dollars trying to hide it, for years?

And who fought to get these testimonies out in the open....Victims family members(you know, the people you supposedly support)

Hey Humpty dumpty, pick a side of the fence to stand on, would you.......

None of you people on here EVER address what to make of those testimonies being tied up in court, because you cant, there is zero defensible ground there. You merely ignore it.
I dont.

[stateofgrace]

Define implied?

Do you mean the 118 testimonies that those you support fought tooth and nail to tie up in court for years so they wouldnt be known to the public? Do you support that?

If what they said wasnt troublesome, why spend thousands and thousands in taxpayer dollars trying to hide it, for years?

And who fought to get these testimonies out in the open....Victims family members(you know, the people you supposedly support)

Hey Humpty dumpty, pick a side of the fence to stand on, would you.......

None of you people on here EVER address what to make of those testimonies being tied up in court, because you cant, there is zero defensible ground there. You merely ignore it.
I dont.

Do the victim’s families who you now have pulled into this discussion also support your ideas about the buildings being blown up? Or the Pentagon not being hit by flight 77?

Or maybe back on topic, do the victims families support you when you say the fire-fights know it was all a cover up and keeping quite to save their pensions?

Do the victim’s families support this contention? If not,stop mentioning people who do not support you and get back on topic.

[Gravy]

Is he a liar? Of course. I have spoken to many members of the FDNY, NYPD, and PAPD. All have openly scorned the truthers' claims. All. I wish I had video of the guys from Ten House jeering from their truck at the Ground Zero creeps: really takes the wind out of the truther sails.

The creeps forget that the first responders have powerful unions, and they are the first to complain when they perceive an unresolved safety issue. For example:

City's Fire Unions Accuse FDNY of Cover-Up at Deutsche Bank Building (http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=8&aid=74380)

Remember when Avery, Bermas, and Rowe kept making that "gag order" claim, until they talked to a firefighter on video who told them there was no such thing?

Roundhead shouldn't take my word for it: he should talk to as many 9/11 first responders as possible, keep track of how many claim the WTC buildings were destroyed by controlled demolitions with explosives planted by "inside jobbers," and publish his results.

While you're at it, Roundhead, be sure to tell these people that they don't care enough about what killed their sons and brothers, and publish their comments:

– The Higgins family: Retired FDNY Captain Ed, FDNY firefighter brothers Joe, Mike, and Bob, and NYPD Sergeant Mike, whose son and brother Timothy died on 9/11.

– Lee Ielpi, one of the most decorated firefighters in FDNY history and his son, firefighter Brendan, whose son and brother Jonathan died on 9/11.

– Captain John Vigiano, whose firefighter sons John and Joseph died on 9/11.

– Jimmy Boyle, retired FDNY union president, whose firefighter son Michael died on 9/11.

– Chief Jim Riches, whose son James died on 9/11.

– Chief Eddie Schoales, whose son Thomas died on 9/11.

– Captain Bill Butler, whose son Jonathan died on 9/11.

– Battalion Chief Joe Pfeifer, whose brother Kevin died on 9/11.

– Lieutentant Tommy Brunton, whose brother Vincent died on 9/11.

– Lieutenant Dennis O'Berg, whose son Dennis died on 9/11.

– Lieutenant Paul Geidel, whose son Gary died on 9/11.

– Fire Patrolman Mike Angelini, whose firefighter brother Joseph and nephew Joseph Jr died on 9/11.

– The Harrell family, whose firefighter brothers Stephen and Harvey died on 9/11.

– The Haskell family, whose firefighter brothers Thomas and Timothy died on 9/11.

– The Langone family, whose firefighter brothers Peter and Thomas died on 9/11.


Oddly enough, if Roundhead does this research and publishes his results, he will be the first truther to do so. What are they so afraid of?

But we know Roundhead won't do it, and we know why.

[beachnut]

Define implied?

Do you mean the 118 testimonies that those you support fought tooth and nail to tie up in court for years so they wouldnt be known to the public? Do you support that?

If what they said wasnt troublesome, why spend thousands and thousands in taxpayer dollars trying to hide it, for years?

And who fought to get these testimonies out in the open....Victims family members(you know, the people you supposedly support)

Hey Humpty dumpty, pick a side of the fence to stand on, would you.......

None of you people on here EVER address what to make of those testimonies being tied up in court, because you cant, there is zero defensible ground there. You merely ignore it.
I dont.What?

Explain what cover-up. What is being covered up? You can’t even define your position or what it means. Take a deep breath and explain what your conclusion is and what the firemen are afraid to say (albeit total hearsay that they are under pressure). What does this have to do with the events of 911 done by 19 terrorists?

Just explain what it means, and how it affects your conclusion; neat if you mentioned your conclusion on this. I already know you have cherry picked a quote to rant about but you said nothing! Zip, you have no story, no real conclusion, no real logic.

Good luck.


I guess you are talking bombs, and thermite delusions. If so save it for the dumb kids in 911Truth who love delusions based on lies, hearsay and your fantasy world failed common sense.

[WildCat]

No, i dont call them cowards, and never have. That is your choice of words, not mine.
I cited a guy who said what he said about possible pressure being applied to these people, its up to you guys to take it however you want to.
Can you describe the legal process the NWO must go through to take away the pension of a union-protected government employee?

[roundhead]

What?

Explain what cover-up. What is being covered up? You can’t even define your position or what it means. Take a deep breath and explain what your conclusion is and what the firemen are afraid to say (albeit total hearsay that they are under pressure). What does this have to do with the events of 911 done by 19 terrorists?

Just explain what it means, and how it affects your conclusion; neat if you mentioned your conclusion on this. I already know you have cherry picked a quote to rant about but you said nothing! Zip, you have no story, no real conclusion, no real logic.

Good luck.



Even somebody like you with limited meaningfull mass between his ears knows those 118 testimonies were fatal to the official lie.

Explain why the govt fought to keep them from the public, if they supported the OCT??

[johnny karate]

No, i dont call them cowards, and never have. That is your choice of words, not mine.
I cited a guy who said what he said about possible pressure being applied to these people, its up to you guys to take it however you want to.

You also voiced your agreement with McCormak's statement. I've quoted you doing so in the OP.

Please explain how someone who keeps quiet about the murder of 3,000 people for fear of losing their pension is not a coward.

[roundhead]

Do the victim’s families who you now have pulled into this discussion also support your ideas about the buildings being blown up? Or the Pentagon not being hit by flight 77?

Or maybe back on topic, do the victims families support you when you say the fire-fights know it was all a cover up and keeping quite to save their pensions?

Do the victim’s families support this contention? If not,stop mentioning people who do not support you and get back on topic.


http://rawstory.com/news/2008/911_widows_call_for_new_investigation_0205.html

"The 9/11 widows also fault the Commission for relying too much on information gained from "second and third hand knowledge of interrogations of tortured individuals, detainees that were being held in secret locations."

They say Shenon's book reveals information that "only scratches the surface" of what happened within the government before the 9/11 attacks.

"The bottom line is that the most deadly attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor remains dangerously unexamined," they write. "This can only be remedied with an investigation guided by the facts and conducted outside the reach of those with a vested interest in suppressing the truth."

[stateofgrace]

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/911_widows_call_for_new_investigation_0205.html

"the 9/11 widows also fault the commission for relying too much on information gained from "second and third hand knowledge of interrogations of tortured individuals, detainees that were being held in secret locations."

they say shenon's book reveals information that "only scratches the surface" of what happened within the government before the 9/11 attacks.

"the bottom line is that the most deadly attack on american soil since pearl harbor remains dangerously unexamined," they write. "this can only be remedied with an investigation guided by the facts and conducted outside the reach of those with a vested interest in suppressing the truth."

Do they agree or support your contention, in anyway, that the fire-fighters are keeping quiet, about mass murder,for the sake of their pension ?

If not, get back on topic or I will report you.

[beachnut]

Even somebody like you with limited meaningfull mass between his ears ...
…meaningfull…What is meaningfull mean? Does it mean no delusions or something? I have limited voids in my brain? Is this an insult, but with all the limited whatever I am not sure?

What is a meaning-full? Full of good stuff?


Does this mean you wasted a post and did not explain your conclusions and delusions?


This does not make your hearsay, lies and fantasy into evidence.

[Alt+F4]

I cited a guy who said what he said about possible pressure being applied to these people, its up to you guys to take it however you want to.

There is NO pressure being put on members of the FDNY to keep quite about anything involving 9/11. The guy you cited was wrong.

[AJM8125]

Is he a liar? Of course. I have spoken to many members of the FDNY, NYPD, and PAPD. All have openly scorned the truthers' claims. All. I wish I had video of the guys from Ten House jeering from their truck at the Ground Zero creeps: really takes the wind out of the truther sails.

The creeps forget that the first responders have powerful unions, and they are the first to complain when they perceive an unresolved safety issue. For example:

City's Fire Unions Accuse FDNY of Cover-Up at Deutsche Bank Building (http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=8&aid=74380)

Remember when Avery, Bermas, and Rowe kept making that "gag order" claim, until they talked to a firefighter on video who told them there was no such thing?

Roundhead shouldn't take my word for it: he should talk to as many 9/11 first responders as possible, keep track of how many claim the WTC buildings were destroyed by controlled demolitions with explosives planted by "inside jobbers," and publish his results.

While you're at it, Roundhead, be sure to tell these people that they don't care enough about what killed their sons and brothers, and publish their comments:

– The Higgins family: Retired FDNY Captain Ed, FDNY firefighter brothers Joe, Mike, and Bob, and NYPD Sergeant Mike, whose son and brother Timothy died on 9/11.

– Lee Ielpi, one of the most decorated firefighters in FDNY history and his son, firefighter Brendan, whose son and brother Jonathan died on 9/11.

– Captain John Vigiano, whose firefighter sons John and Joseph died on 9/11.

– Jimmy Boyle, retired FDNY union president, whose firefighter son Michael died on 9/11.

– Chief Jim Riches, whose son James died on 9/11.

– Chief Eddie Schoales, whose son Thomas died on 9/11.

– Captain Bill Butler, whose son Jonathan died on 9/11.

– Battalion Chief Joe Pfeifer, whose brother Kevin died on 9/11.

– Lieutentant Tommy Brunton, whose brother Vincent died on 9/11.

– Lieutenant Dennis O'Berg, whose son Dennis died on 9/11.

– Lieutenant Paul Geidel, whose son Gary died on 9/11.

– Fire Patrolman Mike Angelini, whose firefighter brother Joseph and nephew Joseph Jr died on 9/11.

– The Harrell family, whose firefighter brothers Stephen and Harvey died on 9/11.

– The Haskell family, whose firefighter brothers Thomas and Timothy died on 9/11.

– The Langone family, whose firefighter brothers Peter and Thomas died on 9/11.


Oddly enough, if Roundhead does this research and publishes his results, he will be the first truther to do so. What are they so afraid of?

But we know Roundhead won't do it, and we know why.

I reposted this because I noticed it wasn't replied to. Maybe Roundhead has Gravy on ignore? I'm rather curious to hear his response too.

[kookbreaker]

No, i dont call them cowards, and never have. That is your choice of words, not mine.
I cited a guy who said what he said about possible pressure being applied to these people, its up to you guys to take it however you want to.

I take it by your comment that you believe the Major, like i do. If so, what do you make of these hard working firefighters being threatened? Do you like that? Think they should be told to keep their mouths shut?

Soooo... you aren't calling them cowards, you are just saying that none of them have the guts to stand up to pressure about their jobs/pensions in the face of mass murder of their friends and brothers.

Right.

I remember an old quote about a guy saying: "Oh, I ain't calling him a coward! I'm just saying he ran away from every fight, confrontation, and complexity in his lifetime. But I ain't calling him a coward". *

At least that line was said with a wink.




* I have *no* idea who said it, dangit!

[BigAl]

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/911_widows_call_for_new_investigation_0205.html

"The 9/11 widows also fault the Commission for relying too much on information gained from "second and third hand knowledge of interrogations of tortured individuals, detainees that were being held in secret locations."

They say Shenon's book reveals information that "only scratches the surface" of what happened within the government before the 9/11 attacks.


But you haven't read it. I have. I recommend it.

Shenon says nothing that supports the claims of the Twoofers. Much to the contrary, he shows the massive amount of detailed information we have that all supports the standard story.


The Commission - The Uncensored History Of The 9/11 Investigation by Shenon, Philip

[roundhead]

There is NO pressure being put on members of the FDNY to keep quite about anything involving 9/11. The guy you cited was wrong.


Have you talked to him??


So you are saying the Major is a liar??

Are you saying the Govt suppressed the testimonies because they support the OCT??

[kookbreaker]

So you are saying the Major is a liar??


It sure sounds like it. Why is this such a problem for you to accept?

[Thunder]

FDNY personnel walk through fire. I don't think they are afraid of losing their pension if they could save the country.

[johnny karate]

Please explain how someone who keeps quiet about the murder of 3,000 people for fear of losing their pension is not a coward.

Bump for roundhead.

[1337m4n]

Have you talked to him??

Have you?

How do you know he is telling the truth?

For that matter...how do you know that's what he even said?

The opening quote begain with "McCormack said..." That means that the quote isn't actually from McCormack himself, rather, it is hearsay from somebody claiming to know what McCormack said.

Do you have the quote from McCormack himself?

[1337m4n]

I have no reason to not believe what he is saying isnt true, so i tend to believe him. Its as simple as that.

If somebody knows something about this guy that would make what he says not believable(such as something he has lied about in his past, etc)i am all ears.
In the meantime, i tend to believe his statement, and take it at face value, until and unless something more credible surfaces to the contrary.
As the guy who started this thread seems to think this statement by the major isnt truthfull, by all means explain what isnt factual about it, and i may well change my opinion on the matter.

Okay. My friend Bob says that 100% of police, firemen and rescue personnel he has personally spoken to think that Truthers are all nuts.

I have no reason to not believe what Bob is saying isnt true, so i tend to believe him. Its as simple as that.

If somebody knows something about Bob that would make what he says not believable(such as something he has lied about in his past, etc)i am all ears.
In the meantime, i tend to believe his statement, and take it at face value, until and unless something more credible surfaces to the contrary.
As roundhead seems to think this statement by Bob isnt truthfull, by all means explain what isnt factual about it, and i may well change my opinion on the matter.

[lapman]

Major Mike McCormack a civil air patrol pilot, who was the one who found the US flag in the rubble, and became a toxic air whistleblower(and got harassed for his troubles)....


"McCormack said that around 75% of police, firemen and rescue personnel that he had personally spoke with now believe there is a cover-up pertaining to 9/11 and that many had been threatened that "if they ever open their mouth their pensions are at risk."

Is he a liar?

He's talking about the EPA air quality cover-up, not the Inside Job fantasy.

[Sunstealer]

He's talking about the EPA air quality cover-up, not the Inside Job fantasy.That was my first thought when reading it.

Why do those in the truth movement have a reading comprehension that an 8 year old would put to shame?

[roundhead]

That was my first thought when reading it.

Why do those in the truth movement have a reading comprehension that an 8 year old would put to shame?


Liar......



9/11 Toxic Dust Whistleblower Raided By SWAT Team
Ground zero hero Major Mike McCormack says he was deliberately targeted for helping release documents on EPA government cover-up, says 75% of police, firemen believe 9/11 cover-up

Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | September 15 2006

A 9/11 toxic dust whistleblower, a ground zero hero and one of the individuals influential in the release of documents proving a government cover-up that deliberately put police, firemen and rescue personel at risk, has been raided by a New York SWAT team - who ransacked his home for three hours after he was arrested.

Major Mike McCormack is a hospital technician and civil air patrol pilot who worked the ground zero site for eight days after the collapse of the twin towers. He is one of the real heroes of 9/11 and was the man who found the American flag that was later displayed as a token of unity atop the rubble.

Within hours McCormack was coughing up black mucus and within days he was coughing up blood as the toxic dust that was deliberately covered up by the EPA poisoned his lungs along with all the other rescue workers, police and firemen who were being used in photo ops by Bush and his cronies while their very livelihoods were being endangered by a government cover-up.

McCormack now suffers from an extreme respiratory sensitivity, has a 5-millimeter metal nodule in one lung and has been forced to give up his passion of scuba diving.

McCormack is part of an organization lobbying Congress to demand a response from the federal government to the toxic dust cover-up and just compensation for the heroes of 9/11 who were deserted by their own government while the Bush administration had the audacity to use the attacks to fulfil a pre-determined political agenda by exploiting the unity created by the events of that day.

McCormack now describes himself as "permanently ill" as a result of the "death sentence" that was imposed on him via the toxic dust cover-up and sees it as only a matter of time before he "takes the dirt nap," just as some of his friends who worked with him at ground zero have already done.

McCormack currently occupies a high position of employment in security with the federal government which at the moment he prefers not to divulge. He has many friends who were affected by the ground zero toxic dust, including New York City police and state troopers.

McCormack was part of the anniversary ceremonies on September 11 2006 and provided many hand-shaking photo-ops for numerous politicians, before returning to his family home in Pennsylvania that night. McCormack returned to his New York home the next morning in preparation to visit ground zero once again.

On the morning of September 12, McCormack's tenant opened the door to see half a dozen detectives outside who began asking questions and demanding to search the building. The detectives didn't have a warrant and needed McCormack's signature to conduct the search.

Having nothing to hide and wanting to assist the police, McCormack signed the paper and the detectives entered the house.

"Three minutes later as I'm walking out of my office with one of the detectives, I have a federal SWAT team that comes in....men in black and all of a sudden they have 9 millimeter handguns and MP5 machine guns aimed at my head," McCormack told the Alex Jones Show.

McCormack was ordered to leave the building as the 15-strong Darth Vader like SWAT team members verbally abused him and commenced ransacking his house for up to three hours "like a cyclone."

The reason for the raid was said to be as a result of a complaint that the odor of chemicals was smelled coming from the house. McCormack was essentially being treated as a potential terrorist.

McCormack had mistakenly left a legally owned unloaded gun in the trunk of his car before traveling back from Pennsylvania. Thinking that the 48 hour out of state law applied he planned to return the gun to Pennsylvania the next day. Not wanting to take the gun down to ground zero he felt the safest place to put it would be the house. The gun was subsequently discovered by the SWAT team. Through a selectively enforced loophole McCormack is now being charged with illegal possession of a weapon because he took the gun out of state.

"The detective who arrested me told me that he had actually seen my photo in New York Newsday that past Thursday - he knew that I was a ground zero hero and the bottom line is finding that weapon unloaded - running the numbers - knowing the gun was legal if he was a decent human being he would have said 'give me 24 hours I will mail it to your house in Pennsylvania where it's legal - you have your permit'," said McCormack.

During the course of the raid, the SWAT team members and detectives interrogated McCormack on his possession of gas masks and biochemical protection suits, despite the fact that these are standard inventory for an individual in McCormack's line of work and despite diplomas hanging on his wall describing government training in biochemical casualty programs.

The SWAT team also accused McCormack of making chemicals in his barbeque grill.

McCormack's tenant, who questioned the officials' behavior during the raid, was "taken to federal jail and nobody has heard from him since," according to McCormack.

McCormack believes the set-up and the raid are a direct reaction to his activism in helping get the EPA documents that proved the toxic dust cover-up released.

"I said shame on all of them....yesterday I was recognized as a national hero....they chose to humiliate me....they basically flushed my life down the toilet for no reason whatsoever," said McCormack - who is now shunned by his neighbors and treated as a dangerous criminal, with the local authorities going to the lengths of moving the location of an elementary school bus stop which was outside of his house.

Another reason for the raid may have been McCormack's increasing awareness of aspects of the 9/11 official story that don't add up. McCormack described the comments of individuals who were at ground zero when President Bush visited in the days after the attack.

"Numerous firemen were telling me that they heard numerous secondary explosions all over the building - these guys are seasoned firefighting professionals - a lot of them have military backgrounds and they're not stupid."

"Everybody on the planet knew that not only was the World Trade Center hit - it was totally wiped out," said McCormack.

McCormack said that around 75% of police, firemen and rescue personnel that he had personally spoke with now believe there is a cover-up pertaining to 9/11 and that many had been threatened that "if they ever open their mouth their pensions are at risk."

McCormack said that friends of his had also personally been involved in the construction of FEMA internment camps in Washington DC and New York. BBC investigative reporter Greg Palast was recently charged with "threatening infrastructure" after videotaping a Katrina victims camp in Louisiana and Exxon Mobil's Baton Rouge refinery - the charge has now thankfully been dropped .

McCormack said the government had "abandoned" the heroes of 9/11 and that "when Alex tells you this is Nazi Germany, you best believe it," describing the events as "part of the new world order."

Mike McCormack appreciates any help and legal support as he fights the charge against him. His home number is 631-886-1622.

[beachnut]

Liar......

...
Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | September 15 2006

... "when Alex tells you this is Nazi Germany, you best believe it," describing the events as "part of the new world order."
...
Alex Jones? So sad you use the web site of pure junk to support your failed ideas on 911.

I hope you are not trying to tie the clean up effort to bombs and thermite. That would be illogical.

[240-185]

Is he a liar? Of course. I have spoken to many members of the FDNY, NYPD, and PAPD. All have openly scorned the truthers' claims. All. I wish I had video of the guys from Ten House jeering from their truck at the Ground Zero creeps: really takes the wind out of the truther sails.

The creeps forget that the first responders have powerful unions, and they are the first to complain when they perceive an unresolved safety issue. For example:

City's Fire Unions Accuse FDNY of Cover-Up at Deutsche Bank Building (http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=8&aid=74380)

Remember when Avery, Bermas, and Rowe kept making that "gag order" claim, until they talked to a firefighter on video who told them there was no such thing?

Roundhead shouldn't take my word for it: he should talk to as many 9/11 first responders as possible, keep track of how many claim the WTC buildings were destroyed by controlled demolitions with explosives planted by "inside jobbers," and publish his results.

While you're at it, Roundhead, be sure to tell these people that they don't care enough about what killed their sons and brothers, and publish their comments:

– The Higgins family: Retired FDNY Captain Ed, FDNY firefighter brothers Joe, Mike, and Bob, and NYPD Sergeant Mike, whose son and brother Timothy died on 9/11.

– Lee Ielpi, one of the most decorated firefighters in FDNY history and his son, firefighter Brendan, whose son and brother Jonathan died on 9/11.

– Captain John Vigiano, whose firefighter sons John and Joseph died on 9/11.

– Jimmy Boyle, retired FDNY union president, whose firefighter son Michael died on 9/11.

– Chief Jim Riches, whose son James died on 9/11.

– Chief Eddie Schoales, whose son Thomas died on 9/11.

– Captain Bill Butler, whose son Jonathan died on 9/11.

– Battalion Chief Joe Pfeifer, whose brother Kevin died on 9/11.

– Lieutentant Tommy Brunton, whose brother Vincent died on 9/11.

– Lieutenant Dennis O'Berg, whose son Dennis died on 9/11.

– Lieutenant Paul Geidel, whose son Gary died on 9/11.

– Fire Patrolman Mike Angelini, whose firefighter brother Joseph and nephew Joseph Jr died on 9/11.

– The Harrell family, whose firefighter brothers Stephen and Harvey died on 9/11.

– The Haskell family, whose firefighter brothers Thomas and Timothy died on 9/11.

– The Langone family, whose firefighter brothers Peter and Thomas died on 9/11.


Oddly enough, if Roundhead does this research and publishes his results, he will be the first truther to do so. What are they so afraid of?

But we know Roundhead won't do it, and we know why.

bumppity bump

[roundhead]

Alex Jones? So sad you use the web site of pure junk to support your failed ideas on 911.

I hope you are not trying to tie the clean up effort to bombs and thermite. That would be illogical.


The guy was an acknowledged 9/11 hero.

It doesnt matter who he said what he said to. He was taped live, so there is no mistake these were his words.

Shooting the messenger isnt going to save you. The guy said what he said, deal with it, call him a liar, whatever you want to do.

[Alt+F4]

"McCormack said that around 75% of police, firemen and rescue personnel that he had personally spoke with now believe there is a cover-up pertaining to 9/11 and that many had been threatened that "if they ever open their mouth their pensions are at risk."

He's a liar.

Folks who have read my posts on this sub-forum know that I have both FDNY and NYPD family members who were there on 9/11 and it's aftermath. I know many members of the FDNY and NYPD and I have never met even one who bought into any of this conspiracy nonsense.

There is no FDNY cover up.
Nobody's pension is at risk for speaking up.

End of story.

[Gravy]

McCormack said this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za_cPv0WL0Q), in 2008: "There wasn't enough gasoline, there wasn't enough jet fuel, to bring the towers down. But they came down." So that's the level of his understanding.

He's also the guy who accuses the police of raiding his house because he helped "expose" a "cover-up" regarding the EPA's statements about air quality. Actually, the police came because of a complaint about a chemical odor coming from a house McCormack owned. McCormack was detained because he had transported a gun across state lines illegally. People who think things through will notice that no one else who helped get EPA documents released, reporters and Congressmen included, had their houses "raided."

I remember McCormack claiming that the government was building a "secret prison" in Brooklyn – a construction friend had told him about it. Um, I live in Brooklyn. The prison isn't secret. They put people there who have been convicted of crimes.

As for calling him Major, let's be clear that he's a volunteer in the Civil Air Patrol, a civilian organization whose members aren't bound by military law. I'm a bit surprised by the freedom-loving McCormack's participation with CAP, considering the prominent role it plays in the "War on Drugs."

[Gravy]

Can you describe the legal process the NWO must go through to take away the pension of a union-protected government employee?Bump.

[beachnut]

The guy was an acknowledged 9/11 hero.

It doesnt matter who he said what he said to. He was taped live, so there is no mistake these were his words.

Shooting the messenger isnt going to save you. The guy said what he said, deal with it, call him a liar, whatever you want to do.
It does not matter what he says, there are still no bombs used to bring down the WTC, no thermite, and you are stuck with 19 terrorists did it. Your ability to use no evidence to support your ideas is consistent. You want to blame whom for 911? And you have failed.

[johnny karate]

Please explain how someone who keeps quiet about the murder of 3,000 people for fear of losing their pension is not a coward.

Bump for roundhead.

[applecorped]

The guy was an acknowledged 9/11 hero.

It doesnt matter who he said what he said to. He was taped live, so there is no mistake these were his words.

Shooting the messenger isnt going to save you. The guy said what he said, deal with it, call him a liar, whatever you want to do.

And if he came out tomorrow and said he made it all up you'd call him a liar.

[Dog Town]

Shooting the messenger isnt going to save you. The guy said what he said, deal with it, call him a liar, whatever you want to do.


You might wanna read post #37. The gig is up. This dude is crackers!
You twoofers sure know how to pick'em!

ETA:Hell you,RH, even posted this without going Hmmm...
McCormack said that friends of his had also personally been involved in the construction of FEMA internment camps in Washington DC and New York.

[jhunter1163]

Will Roundhead continue to ignore evidence in his usual *snicker* cavalier fashion?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I have no reason to not believe what he is saying isnt true, so i tend to believe him. Its as simple as that.


You're right. That is simple... on more than one level. The obvious question, though, that you should have asked yourself is, "Why have I forgone all rationality and blindly accepted this man's statement(s) without a shred of support?"

I suspect that you know the answer to that question, but are hiding from it, because it's self-reflective and uncomfortable. It's a threat to your poorly constructed fantasy. You aren't convinced that you can face the answer and come out the other side with your beliefs intact.

Oh, and... bump for roundhead:

Is he a liar? Of course. I have spoken to many members of the FDNY, NYPD, and PAPD. All have openly scorned the truthers' claims. All. I wish I had video of the guys from Ten House jeering from their truck at the Ground Zero creeps: really takes the wind out of the truther sails.

The creeps forget that the first responders have powerful unions, and they are the first to complain when they perceive an unresolved safety issue. For example:

City's Fire Unions Accuse FDNY of Cover-Up at Deutsche Bank Building (http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=8&aid=74380)

Remember when Avery, Bermas, and Rowe kept making that "gag order" claim, until they talked to a firefighter on video who told them there was no such thing?

Roundhead shouldn't take my word for it: he should talk to as many 9/11 first responders as possible, keep track of how many claim the WTC buildings were destroyed by controlled demolitions with explosives planted by "inside jobbers," and publish his results.

While you're at it, Roundhead, be sure to tell these people that they don't care enough about what killed their sons and brothers, and publish their comments:

– The Higgins family: Retired FDNY Captain Ed, FDNY firefighter brothers Joe, Mike, and Bob, and NYPD Sergeant Mike, whose son and brother Timothy died on 9/11.

– Lee Ielpi, one of the most decorated firefighters in FDNY history and his son, firefighter Brendan, whose son and brother Jonathan died on 9/11.

– Captain John Vigiano, whose firefighter sons John and Joseph died on 9/11.

– Jimmy Boyle, retired FDNY union president, whose firefighter son Michael died on 9/11.

– Chief Jim Riches, whose son James died on 9/11.

– Chief Eddie Schoales, whose son Thomas died on 9/11.

– Captain Bill Butler, whose son Jonathan died on 9/11.

– Battalion Chief Joe Pfeifer, whose brother Kevin died on 9/11.

– Lieutentant Tommy Brunton, whose brother Vincent died on 9/11.

– Lieutenant Dennis O'Berg, whose son Dennis died on 9/11.

– Lieutenant Paul Geidel, whose son Gary died on 9/11.

– Fire Patrolman Mike Angelini, whose firefighter brother Joseph and nephew Joseph Jr died on 9/11.

– The Harrell family, whose firefighter brothers Stephen and Harvey died on 9/11.

– The Haskell family, whose firefighter brothers Thomas and Timothy died on 9/11.

– The Langone family, whose firefighter brothers Peter and Thomas died on 9/11.


Oddly enough, if Roundhead does this research and publishes his results, he will be the first truther to do so. What are they so afraid of?

But we know Roundhead won't do it, and we know why.

[Bobert]

It sure sounds like it. Why is this such a problem for you to accept?
RH is parroting his CIT CULT masters who CONSTANTLY are saying, "so are you saying <insert name> is a liar?"
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAWN.

[AJM8125]

Hmm. Gravy's post keeps getting bumped to no avail. Perhaps Roundhead has all of us on ignore. Yeah, that must it.

[1337m4n]

Okay. My friend Bob says that 100% of police, firemen and rescue personnel he has personally spoken to think that Truthers are all nuts.

I have no reason to not believe what Bob is saying isnt true, so i tend to believe him. Its as simple as that.

If somebody knows something about Bob that would make what he says not believable(such as something he has lied about in his past, etc)i am all ears.
In the meantime, i tend to believe his statement, and take it at face value, until and unless something more credible surfaces to the contrary.
As roundhead seems to think this statement by Bob isnt truthfull, by all means explain what isnt factual about it, and i may well change my opinion on the matter.

Bump for roundhead.

[funk de fino]

The guy was an acknowledged 9/11 hero.

It doesnt matter who he said what he said to. He was taped live, so there is no mistake these were his words.

Shooting the messenger isnt going to save you. The guy said what he said, deal with it, call him a liar, whatever you want to do.

He is a liar. Said it.

The FDNY think people like you are scumbags.

[Alt+F4]

So you are saying the Major is a liar??

Are you saying the Govt suppressed the testimonies because they support the OCT??

Yes, I'm saying the Major is a liar.

The testimonies were never suppressed. The FDNY has been talking about their experiences since 9/11. No one was ever told not to talk to their friends, their families or the media.

[roundhead]

Yes, I'm saying the Major is a liar.

The testimonies were never suppressed. The FDNY has been talking about their experiences since 9/11. No one was ever told not to talk to their friends, their families or the media.

The testimonies were never suppressed??

You sir, are a bald faced liar

[JamesB]

Is this like how Sibel Edmonds is the "most gagged woman" ever, despite freely talking on 60 Minutes and every media outlet she can get access to?

[BCR]

The testimonies were never suppressed??

You sir, are a bald faced liar

Have you engaged your self-destruct function or something?

[Dog Town]

Is this like how Sibel Edmonds is the "most gagged woman" ever,...

My thought exactly!

[AJM8125]

The testimonies were never suppressed??

You sir, are a bald faced liar

It's bold faced, Alt+F4 is a lady, and you're a loon.

[johnny karate]

roundhead, you've been given the opportunity to defend your characterization of the FDNY as cowards, and have repeatedly dodged the issue.

So please don't whine when I rub your nose in it.

[Alt+F4]

The testimonies were never suppressed??

You sir, are a bald faced liar

No, they were never suppressed. Why do you confine your knowledge to what you can research on the Internet and don't bother speaking to real people?

Just because the oral testimonies were not published in The New York Times until 2005 does not mean they were suppressed. You could freely talk to ANY of those 500+ persons. Did you bother to contact any of them?

Following September 11 th, The New York Times and certain families requested various records related to the attacks under the Freedom of Information Law.

The Fire Department provided numerous materials but objected to providing certain records based on the right to privacy and other exemptions recognized by the Freedom of Information Law.

On March 24, 2005 , the New York State Court of Appeals -- the State's highest court -- ruled in the matter. It upheld many of the City's contentions, authorizing various types of redactions to protect the privacy interests and other concerns urged by the City. Otherwise, it directed that the materials be released. In compliance with the Court's decision, the Department is releasing to The New York Times and the families in the lawsuit the oral histories and radio communications (including a log of EMS calls), with appropriate redactions, on Friday, Aug. 12, 2005 .

Bolding mine.

The FDNY did not want some of the material released to the general public because portions were likely to cause serious pain or embarrassment to interviewees who believed that the interviews were confidential. Is the FDNY lying?

Linky:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/pr/2005/080505_6905.shtml

[1337m4n]

The testimonies were never suppressed??

You sir, are a bald faced liar

I suppose you have evidence?

[jaydeehess]

Is this like how Sibel Edmonds is the "most gagged woman" ever, despite freely talking on 60 Minutes and every media outlet she can get access to?

Sometimes , in the mind of a CTist, "suppression" means that very few people know of or care to know of the information that is actually readily available.

By that reasoning, of course, calculus is suppressed information.:D

[jaydeehess]

Originally Posted by roundhead
Major Mike McCormack a civil air patrol pilot, who was the one who found the US flag in the rubble, and became a toxic air whistleblower(and got harassed for his troubles)....


"McCormack said that around 75% of police, firemen and rescue personnel that he had personally spoke with now believe there is a cover-up pertaining to 9/11 and that many had been threatened that "if they ever open their mouth their pensions are at risk."

Is he a liar?

It would seem that the Major may be very broad in his interpretation.
If a FF said that the air quality at GZ was being minimized by the City and the Feds would he count that as a "cover-up"? If a FF stated that he just wanted to do his job and collect his pebsion at retirement and did not want to talk about 911 anymore, would the Major count that as an admission that the FF had been threatened that "if they ever open their mouth their pensions are at risk."?

The former would not bolster any contention about no-planes, explosives, therm*te, or beam weapons.
The later would have nothing to suggest any threat.

That however is being kind to the Major if indeed he has stated that he knows people who have worked on FEMA internment camps.

posted by jhunter
Will Roundhead continue to ignore evidence in his usual *snicker* cavalier fashion?

What is this, a history lesson?

[Sabrina]

I'm curious, and apologize in advance for the off-topicness here... but where, exactly, are these FEMA internment camps in DC?

See, I live near DC currently, and I'd like to know if this is the usual twoofer idiocy that perfectly legitimate military installations or completely empty lots that have a simple chain-link fence around them are in actuality FEMA camps, or if this is something new. Please make a new thread if me going off-topic bothers you; thank you kindly.

[jhunter1163]

What is this, a history lesson?

Well spotted, sir. I doff my chapeau to you.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Have you talked to him??


So you are saying the Major is a liar??

He is a pathological liar. Just like Joe Meadors and James Ennes.

They all should be used car salesmen.

[funk de fino]

The testimonies were never suppressed??

You sir, are a bald faced liar

NIST reviewed them and re-interviewed many of them and they concluded (along with the interviewes) that there was no CD.

[firecoins]

The testimonies were never suppressed??

You sir, are a bald faced liar
I am a paramedic in Westchester, Ny and the Bronx. No such supression exists. Sorry.

[Elizabeth I]

By that reasoning, of course, calculus is suppressed information.:D

...if only! :p

[Comsat Angel]

He is a pathological liar. Just like Joe Meadors and James Ennes.

They all should be used car salesmen.

Excuse ME! My brother-in-law is a used car salesman. He does not tell lies to customers because i) They will not come back to buy his cars ever again, and ii) They spread bad word of mouth. Politicians! Politicians, now, there's another matter. Why, the husband of our Home Secretary ... (cont. page 94)

[zorro99]

Heated Controversy
Do firefighters believe 9/11 conspiracy theories?
By Christopher Beam
Posted Wednesday, April 8, 2009, at 5:18 PM ET

In the new season of the FX drama Rescue Me, firefighter Franco Rivera espouses the belief that 9/11 was "an inside job." According to a Sunday New York Times article, the show's writers added this assertion because actor Daniel Sunjata is a "truther"; but the real firefighters on set—who work as script advisers—were offended by his allegations. This got the Explainer wondering: Do any firefighters believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories?

Yes. There's no evidence that firefighters buy into 9/11 conspiracy theories at higher rates than the rest of the population. (A 2007 Zogby poll found that 26 percent of Americans believe the government "let it happen." A 2006 Scripps-Howard poll found it was more than a third.) But some firemen do believe the government was behind 9/11 and use their status as first responders to draw attention to their statements.

The most common conspiracy theory held by firefighters is that the Twin Towers—as well as a third building, 7 World Trade Center—collapsed not because planes crashed into them but due to a "controlled demolition." On Sept. 11, an NBC reporter quoted New York Fire Department Chief of Safety Albert Turi as saying he believed there were explosives planted in one of the towers. After the attacks, the New York Fire Department interviewed firefighters to create an oral history of 9/11. These tapes—which were not released until 2005—contain numerous references to explosions heard just before the buildings fell. Firefighters for 9/11 Truth, a Web site started in 2008, says the government destroyed evidence that 7 World Trade Center was blown up and hosts a petition asking Congress to look into the possibility that "exotic accelerants" destroyed the buildings. (The National Institute of Standards and Technology, which investigated the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, concluded that "blast events inside the building did not occur and found no evidence supporting the existence of a blast event.")


http://www.slate.com/id/2215703?nav=wp

[A W Smith]

http://www.slate.com/id/2215703?nav=wp


Heres what you do. print out that "article" and show it to the firefighters at every one of these firehouses

http://www.nycfire.net/mnfiremap

[Alt+F4]

Hmmm...Roundhead never came back to tell me why I'm a liar. I wonder why?

[johnny karate]

http://www.slate.com/id/2215703?nav=wp

So is the writer of this article a Truther? Because he sure enjoys employing their idiotic logic and fallacious arguments. Everything from baseless assumptions, quote-mining, and outright lies is on display. I don't have the time right now, or I'd write a detailed letter to the editors explaining all the irresponsible ways in which their writer got this story completely wrong. Anyone else want to to step up to the plate in the mean time?

[mark4mark]

So is the writer of this article a Truther? Because he sure enjoys employing their idiotic logic and fallacious arguments. Everything from baseless assumptions, quote-mining, and outright lies is on display. I don't have the time right now, or I'd write a detailed letter to the editors explaining all the irresponsible ways in which their writer got this story completely wrong. Anyone else want to to step up to the plate in the mean time?

If the author isn't a truther, his gross misunderstanding of the events is another reminder how pernicious the truther claims are and how, without correction, these claims can be accidentally swallowed whole by an unwitting recipient and then regurgitated, possibly infecting others.
That's why debunking is so damn necessary...

[johnny karate]

As a journalist, he should have known better.

[ozeco41]

If the author isn't a truther, his gross misunderstanding of the events is another reminder how pernicious the truther claims are and how, without correction, these claims can be accidentally swallowed whole by an unwitting recipient and then regurgitated, possibly infecting others.
That's why debunking is so damn necessary...
Which is why I have spent a lot of time debunking and explaining on another forum.

The clown/idiot/CT/"truther" is only the excuse to explain something and the more he/she post rubbish the more opportunity I/we/you get to post true and logical responses.

The real audience is the "lurkers" and other members of the forum. :) ;)

[roundhead]

I quoted an acknowledged 9/11 hero. the quote is early in this thread.

I said i have no reason to conclude this hero is a liar.

The fact most of you slurpers dont believe him is on you, not me.

I quoted him, think his statement is truthfull, and that is pretty much that.


I sleep better knowing you official story slurpers/liars have a problem with that.

[johnny karate]

I quoted an acknowledged 9/11 hero. the quote is early in this thread.

I said i have no reason to conclude this hero is a liar.

The fact most of you slurpers dont believe him is on you, not me.

I quoted him, think his statement is truthfull, and that is pretty much that.


I sleep better knowing you official story slurpers/liars have a problem with that.

The quote in question characterizes the FDNY as cowards (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4413684&postcount=164), and you fell all over yourself to let us know how much you agree with this characterization (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4413684&postcount=164).

I can't speak for any of the other "slurpers", but the problem I have with it is how patently offensive it is.

The irony is that Truthers like yourself who so readily call into question the integrety of the FDNY do nothing more than sit behind your keyboards and spew venom on the Internet. If you had even a fraction of the courage of these firefighters you so casually slander, you might actually manage get something constructive done. But you don't, and you never will.

So keep ranting away, roundhead. As odious as your nonsense is, at least we can rest assured that it will never leave the confines of the Internet. The impotent and ineffectual pose absolutely no threat in the real world.

[roundhead]

The quote in question characterizes the FDNY as cowards (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4413684&postcount=164), and you fell all over yourself to let us know how much you agree with this characterization (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4413684&postcount=164).

I can't speak for any of the other "slurpers", but the problem I have with it is how patently offensive it is.

The irony is that Truthers like yourself who so readily call into question the integrety of the FDNY do nothing more than sit behind your keyboards and spew venom on the Internet. If you had even a fraction of the courage of these firefighters you so casually slander, you might actually manage get something constructive done. But you don't, and you never will.

So keep ranting away, roundhead. As odious as your nonsense is, at least we can rest assured that it will never leave the confines of the Internet. The impotent and ineffectual pose absolutely no threat in the real world.




Edited to remove Rule 12 violation.

I have way more integrity in my little pinky than you will ever aquire, i am positive about that.

[johnny karate]

Edited to remove quoted violation.

That, and to slander the FDNY (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4413684&postcount=164).

I have way more integrity in my little pinky than you will ever aquire, i am positive about that.

Someone with integrity would be willing to come out from behind their monitor and express their characterization of cowardice face-to-face with whomever it was they were characterizing as cowards. Why don't you take your integrity-laden pinky down to an FDNY firehouse and let them know you think they kept silent about "the truth" behind the deaths of their comrades to protect their pensions? Let us know how it turns out.

[mark4mark]

Edited to remove quoted violation.

[mark4mark]

I sleep better knowing you official story slurpers/liars have a problem with that.

Because you have so much integrity-we know.

I guarantee you wouldn't sleep all that well if you spewed this nonsense in a NYC firehouse and got a haligan lodged in your skull.

You're essentially spitting in the face of the FDNY, why does that make you so happy "truthseeker?"

[Alt+F4]

I quoted an acknowledged 9/11 hero. the quote is early in this thread.

I said i have no reason to conclude this hero is a liar.

The fact most of you slurpers dont believe him is on you, not me.

I quoted him, think his statement is truthfull, and that is pretty much that.


I sleep better knowing you official story slurpers/liars have a problem with that.

You're wrong and he's a liar. End of story.

[ozeco41]

Will Roundhead continue to ignore evidence in his usual *snicker* cavalier fashion?

My guess is he will come back and "Ask for more"...


...oops - wrong Oliver. :D