The Mid-America Bigfoot Research Center - The Wild Bunch³

[kitakaze]

OK, third time's a charm, right?

So the last thread was closed mainly for the following reasons...

- Repeated incivility by a specific member that rather than being reported immediately, was met by many responses (even if they were mostly civil). Half pages of OT responses every time an incivil member posted were simply too much of a hassle for effective moderation and resulted in a mess.

- Engaging in a concerted effort to ascertain the identity of another member outside the forum, no matter how civil the effort is, is always inappropriate. That was mostly me and is something I won't be spending any further time doing.

So I have spoken with the powers that be (in this case, Cuddles) to get a better understanding of the situation and to see how it can be remedied. Cuddles has been very helpful in explaining the problems in detail and explaining what flies and what doesn't. As I think we can pretty much all agree, it would be unfortunate of we were completely unable to discuss a well known (to us, anyway) element of Bigfootery.

Between Cuddles and myself, I think a good way has been found where we can discuss the MABRC without having it sabotaged by persons who might wish to do so. So with the third crack at this I think we can get it right. I'm going to outline some general guidelines to keep the discussion in the right direction.

This thread is...

- About the MABRC as a Bigfoot research group. The discussion is intended to be about their activities in the field and the evidence they relate to Bigfoot.

- It is not about the MABRC's forum or any issues they might have there. Such posts should be considered as off topic.

- Nor is the thread about any individual member of the MABRC or their personality. General JREF etiquette about focusing on the argument and claims rather than the person making them is the guideline. I know I veered off with that, so I'll be taking care not to repeat.

As a final and most important note, I think the only way to ensure this thread is not derailed or sabotaged is to have it moderated from the outset. As such I am reporting the OP and requesting moderation of this thread from the beginning.

Now then, on to the evidence...

Here is an image from a series of three purported by the MABRC to be a photo of Bigfoot in Oklahoma:

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=794

And here is the MABRC member responsible for the photo in a separate image that show him with a monkey hat thing on his head that I believe is clearly what the alleged Bigfoot photo shows:

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=793

Next is another in the series of three images purported by the MABRC to feature a family of three Bigfoots with mother, father, and young:

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=799

And here is an video of members of the MABRC attempting to portray what the they believe the image to depict:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAX5DEJ3hBI

Also in that video one of the MABRC members explain various encounters with Bigfoots on his property, including one that is overweight and has a smoker's cough.

[tsig]

It seems to me they will have the problem of escalating expectations. If you see eyeshines and hear whoops one time you might want more later. How will they keep up?

[kitakaze]

Here is another Rob Gaudet video made out at Bullet Maker's property. Now it's not pleasant as it's the video of a dead cow. The cow has died while in child birth and something appears to have eaten the brain. Rob mentions that some black creature was seen to be approaching the cow and then fled when it spotted MABRC members. No description of the creature is given. One wonders why they didn't think to post a camera by the carcass and leave it to see if they could get the creature on camera when/if it returned to feed.

Warning: Yuck.

o7SDodwNax4

[desertgal]

Now then, on to the evidence...

Here is an image from a series of three purported by the MABRC to be a photo of Bigfoot in Oklahoma:

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=794

And here is the MABRC member responsible for the photo in a separate image that show him with a monkey hat thing on his head that I believe is clearly what the alleged Bigfoot photo shows:

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=793



I don't think the first image includes the monkey hat. It looks, to me, like a shot of the back of his head and shoulders with the hood of his jacket pulled up.

Very unconvincing, either way.

[kitakaze]

I don't think the first image includes the monkey hat. It looks, to me, like a shot of the back of his head and shoulders with the hood of his jacket pulled up.

Very unconvincing, either way.

Interesting. It is really hard to tell with glare and the fact that the image has been crumpled up, flattened out, and then scanned. The reason I think they're the same is because the shape is a match to my eye and I would guess that if they were going to mess around with putting a dark shap in front of a camera, and they had a choice between a hood pulled up or something the same shape but was brown and furry, they would choose the monkey hat thing.

I think just the fact that Bullet had that thing and the picture looks so much like it is reason enough to question why they might actually expect people to take that image seriously. I linked in the other thread to a comment by Bullet where he spoke about trying to get money for those images. I can't imagine he had much success.

[GT/CS]

Interesting. It is really hard to tell with glare and the fact that the image has been crumpled up, flattened out, and then scanned. The reason I think they're the same is because the shape is a match to my eye and I would guess that if they were going to mess around with putting a dark shap in front of a camera, and they had a choice between a hood pulled up or something the same shape but was brown and furry, they would choose the monkey hat thing.

I think just the fact that Bullet had that thing and the picture looks so much like it is reason enough to question why they might actually expect people to take that image seriously. I linked in the other thread to a comment by Bullet where he spoke about trying to get money for those images. I can't imagine he had much success.

My guess is that the stuffed monkey doll has been used for many MABRC blobsquatch photos. No evidence for that statement other than the obvious fact that it sure looks like both photos posted by Kit look an awful lot like a stuffed animal placed in front of the camera.

[desertgal]

Interesting. It is really hard to tell with glare and the fact that the image has been crumpled up, flattened out, and then scanned. The reason I think they're the same is because the shape is a match to my eye and I would guess that if they were going to mess around with putting a dark shap in front of a camera, and they had a choice between a hood pulled up or something the same shape but was brown and furry, they would choose the monkey hat thing.


My mistake...my browser didn't load the third image earlier, so I didn't realize that you were referring to the object in the upper right of the first photo as being the monkey hat - I thought you meant the large center mass.

I agree, the upper right object is the monkey hat.

IMO, this is one of the main reasons that Bigfoot research is largely dismissed as a joke. This picture is an obvious hoax, but, even if it weren't, with today's technology, people are expected to believe that blurry, indecipherable images such as this are the best BF researchers can come up with? It defies credulity.

[Telaynay's G'son]

Here is another Rob Gaudet video made out at Bullet Maker's property. Now it's not pleasant as it's the video of a dead cow. The cow has died while in child birth and something appears to have eaten the brain. Rob mentions that some black creature was seen to be approaching the cow and then fled when it spotted MABRC members. No description of the creature is given. One wonders why they didn't think to post a camera by the carcass and leave it to see if they could get the creature on camera when/if it returned to feed.

Warning: Yuck.

o7SDodwNax4

The probable reason for not placing a camera was because they were trespassing upon BM's adjoining neighbor's land w/o permission and it is now a $300+ fine to do so in Oklahoma.

[Telaynay's G'son]

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Yuchi1/th_bilby5.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Yuchi1/?action=view&current=bilby5.jpg)

This photo (taken as a reference shot by Dr. Wallace) illustrates a couple of points.

First, the backside profile shot of DO bears some resemblance to BM's alleged photo.

Second, notice the laterally running oak tree root system he is standing beside. The conclusion many have reached is this is the lower area background (lateral striations) material in BM's photo. As such, there is no possible way the 3 BF photo could have been taken whilst the camera was affixed to the tree as the distance ~20+ feet was too great to allow the root system to have filled up the background as it appears.

Thus, the logical conclusion is the photo was snapped immediately adjacent to said root system and either done so totally by accident or as a designed hoax.

BM later tried to extricate himself from this appearance by posting up sequential photos from the film run but failed miserably when it was pointed out his (alleged) sequential photos...were not sequential.

The end result is a vivid illustration of the total lacking in proper protocols by BM in securing the purity of any such photographic "evidence". IMHO, it's either pure Bush League citizen science in BF'n or a lame attempt at hoaxing in which case it's simply Bush League BS'n.

[Telaynay's G'son]

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Yuchi1/th_05-14-2007020331PM.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Yuchi1/?action=view&current=05-14-2007020331PM.jpg)

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Yuchi1/th_05-14-2007020403PM.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Yuchi1/?action=view&current=05-14-2007020403PM.jpg)

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Yuchi1/th_05-14-2007020433PM.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Yuchi1/?action=view&current=05-14-2007020433PM.jpg)

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Yuchi1/th_05-14-2007020504PM.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Yuchi1/?action=view&current=05-14-2007020504PM.jpg)


These photo's represent a sequence taken by one of my gamecams installed on public (COE) land adjacent to BM's place.

What's interesting is he (BM) created a thread in the MABRC research section(s) entitled BF Crossing Creek wherein he alleges a BF image captured in the 07/04/2002 photo. He also omitted the other photo's from that MABRC thread instead posting only the July 4th picture.

When I posted the additional photographs and disputed his claims the MABRC administrator(s) reaction was to banish me from the website.

Does anyone see a BF in any of these photographs?

[Biscuit]

I realize it was probably just a mistake in the dead cow footage but when the guy filming says,

"I think this cow died giving birth, there are two legs sticking out its ass."

I laughed out loud. More like it died involved in some kinky cow activities.

The photo of the three bigfoot can't even be described as paredolia. the edges of the mother look fuzzy like a stuffed animal, the baby seems way out of proportion to the mother and father, and the father looks more like a grey alien to me. It should be re-titled "fozzy bear, a bigfoot fetus, and a grey enjoy a game of leap frog."

I am hoping we can keep this thread out of AAH. I am guilty of poking a little to much fun at the MABRC but sometimes it is just so easy. I, like Kit, am a little in awe of their bond as a group. Their view of the world and the way the approach squatchin' with absolute faith in the existence of bigfoot but also in their methods is really unique in my opinion.

[learner]

I cant see any bigfoots in the pics but there may be some evidence left at the scene.

Is that a bigfoot sock hanging out to dry from that bush?

I would have carried out a "Cinderella" check on all present for empirical confirmation.
As for the missing sock, well we all know that can happen.
Wild speculation maybe, but its a mad world in those woods.

[xblade]

The probable reason for not placing a camera was because they were trespassing upon BM's adjoining neighbor's land w/o permission and it is now a $300+ fine to do so in Oklahoma.

Hmmmm.....risk getting a $300 fine for the discovery of a lifetime that could possibly lead to $$$ millions. Yeah, that's a tough one alright.

[Telaynay's G'son]

OK, third time's a charm, right?


And here is an video of members of the MABRC attempting to portray what the they believe the image to depict:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAX5DEJ3hBI

Also in that video one of the MABRC members explain various encounters with Bigfoots on his property, including one that is overweight and has a smoker's cough.

I viewed this video for the first time today and was again amazed at BM's knack for BS'n on such a grand scale.

As a participant to that event, I assign ~28-30% accuracy to the segment with the balance being either steroidal embellishment and/or total fabrication.

He should be in politics.

[kitakaze]

Holy guacamole! I can't believe I did't realize this before now. Everybody check out the first and the third "Bigfoot" photos of BM's in the OP. Look at the features being described as "Daddy" and "baby" Bigfoot and the branches to the right of them. Also the right slope of the dark shape. They're the exact same photographs.

I was distracted by the big dark shape and the text in the third photo. They're the same and I think the monkey hat thing is responsible. Wow. That went right by me.

[desertgal]

Holy guacamole! I can't believe I did't realize this before now. Everybody check out the first and the third "Bigfoot" photos of BM's in the OP. Look at the features being described as "Daddy" and "baby" Bigfoot and the branches to the right of them. Also the right slope of the dark shape. They're the exact same photographs.

Yes. That's why I made my mistake yesterday. My browser only loaded the first two pictures-I couldn't see how the large central mass ("Mom") in the first picture was the monkey hat. Then, the third picture loaded, and it defined what area of the first picture you were referring to as the hat. I didn't even notice "Dad" in the first picture until the third picture defined it.

To clarify, I believe that "Mom" is the back of the guy's (BM?) shoulders and head, with his hood pulled up, and "Dad" is the monkey hat.

I have to wonder why, though, as BM was attempting a hoax, he would make the first and second pictures available to anyone, since they reveal the creative editing performed on the third picture almost immediately. Heck, in the first picture, you can see the collar of the coat clear as day, and the monkey hat clearly in the second. That really was kinda dumb on his part.

[tornado]

Morning Kitakaze, I`mmmm Baccccccccccccck :D

Ok, if your tired of the pictures, thats Ok, I just thought you would like to know the truth about the pictures.

The reason for the coat with the hood on it, was because it was a cold day that day. I mean it was very cold with a north wind, that would bite right through you.
What was they doing down there with the toy monkey? They were reinacting the picture for Dr. Wallace. They being bulletmaker and Driveroperator.
The first picture you said looked like it had been waded up and then smoothed out and a picture taken of it, you are right on. That`s exactly what it is, and what happened to the picture. Now the question is why was it wadded up to begin with? Well it started this way, when the orginal picture was taken, (that is retrieved from the game camera, which took a total of about one month to take up the film), and the film was developed, the one picture of the three bigfoots were on just one picture of the 24 picture roll of film. The people that was involved of the bigfoot hunts at that time were T.G..S, D.G., Woodwatcher, and bulletmaker. Now bulletmaker called the other three, and told them about the one picture. They came over to bulletmakers, house and was shown the photo, which at that time, all agreed as to what it was. One of the group, (D.G. AKA Dennis Griffin), ask for a copy of the picture, which he was given, but a poor copy from the copy machine, which was just on regular typing paper.

Now the orginal photo, was never shown, but was scanned and that is the one you see that got all the red lines, that someone else had drawn to show , what was where.

The one of bullemaker with the toy monkey was his back, was used in the reenacting of the picture for Dr. Wallace.

There was no part of bulletmakers just or back or monkey hat, used to fake the picture. You are looking at the real thing, and its your right to see what you see.

[Drewbot]

Tornado- Why don't you post the photo of the guy in the baseball hat, adjusting the camera, that you said is a hairy bigfoot? Or, would you care if I posted it?

[Vortigern99]

But tornado, why couldn't bulletmaker have stepped back from the subject to a distance of, say, six inches or more, so that there could be no question as to what we're looking at? As it stands it's utterly unidentifiable, an unfocused extreme close-up of a fuzzy whatsit that could be anything from a house slipper to a piece of taxidermy. You'll forgive me if I have a hard time believing that four people "all agreed as to what it was".

[GT/CS]

But tornado, why couldn't bulletmaker have stepped back from the subject to a distance of, say, six inches or more, so that there could be no question as to what we're looking at? As it stands it's utterly unidentifiable, an unfocused extreme close-up of a fuzzy whatsit that could be anything from a house slipper to a piece of taxidermy. You'll forgive me if I have a hard time believing that four people "all agreed as to what it was".

It could depend on who those people are and whether or not they have an agenda.

[tornado]

Tornado- Why don't you post the photo of the guy in the baseball hat, adjusting the camera, that you said is a hairy bigfoot? Or, would you care if I posted it?



I`m not sure what one that is Drew, but by all means go ahead and post it.

[tornado]

But tornado, why couldn't bulletmaker have stepped back from the subject to a distance of, say, six inches or more, so that there could be no question as to what we're looking at? As it stands it's utterly unidentifiable, an unfocused extreme close-up of a fuzzy whatsit that could be anything from a house slipper to a piece of taxidermy. You'll forgive me if I have a hard time believing that four people "all agreed as to what it was".



Hello Vortigern99
It wasnt like bulletmaker was standing there taking a picture of this creature. The camera, was a game camera, which means, it was strapped to a tree, and if any game comes by, deer, turkey, dogs, etc. bigfoot. it will take a picture of whatever comes in front of the camera. So the camera was strapped to a tree for a month before the film was developed.left buy itself on the tree. What happened is, the bigfoots came to close to the camera. You have to be 31 inches from the lens of the camera to take a good picture. Anything closer than the 31 inches, will be blurry, which is what happend. The creatures, were so close, that they brushed up against the camera, causeing the camera to tilt, and shoot the picture. If you look up to the right hand of the photo, you will see the top of tree branches, and the blue sky, which meant the camera was angleing upward at the moment the shutter snaped the picture.
You can see the baby bigfoot looking over the shoulder of (I assume) a female bigfoot. His face or her face, is clearer, cause of the 31 inch rule.

[Telaynay's G'son]

But tornado, why couldn't bulletmaker have stepped back from the subject to a distance of, say, six inches or more, so that there could be no question as to what we're looking at? As it stands it's utterly unidentifiable, an unfocused extreme close-up of a fuzzy whatsit that could be anything from a house slipper to a piece of taxidermy. You'll forgive me if I have a hard time believing that four people "all agreed as to what it was".

As one of the four people that "all agreed" to the authencity of this photo, I can assure you the only thing we agreed upon was that it was not a photo of a BF(s) despite BM's exhortations (then...and, now) to the contrary.

The record also shows that when he went to the GBO website to pimp it as such is when our falling out occurred as both D.G. and myself refused to corroroborate his claims.

[Drewbot]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1970549d1ff5c953e8.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=15846)

This is the one I was referring to.

[desertgal]

Morning Kitakaze, I`mmmm Baccccccccccccck :D

Ok, if your tired of the pictures, thats Ok, I just thought you would like to know the truth about the pictures.

The reason for the coat with the hood on it, was because it was a cold day that day. I mean it was very cold with a north wind, that would bite right through you.
What was they doing down there with the toy monkey? They were reinacting the picture for Dr. Wallace. They being bulletmaker and Driveroperator.
The first picture you said looked like it had been waded up and then smoothed out and a picture taken of it, you are right on. That`s exactly what it is, and what happened to the picture. Now the question is why was it wadded up to begin with? Well it started this way, when the orginal picture was taken, (that is retrieved from the game camera, which took a total of about one month to take up the film), and the film was developed, the one picture of the three bigfoots were on just one picture of the 24 picture roll of film. The people that was involved of the bigfoot hunts at that time were T.G..S, D.G., Woodwatcher, and bulletmaker. Now bulletmaker called the other three, and told them about the one picture. They came over to bulletmakers, house and was shown the photo, which at that time, all agreed as to what it was. One of the group, (D.G. AKA Dennis Griffin), ask for a copy of the picture, which he was given, but a poor copy from the copy machine, which was just on regular typing paper.

Now the orginal photo, was never shown, but was scanned and that is the one you see that got all the red lines, that someone else had drawn to show , what was where.

The one of bullemaker with the toy monkey was his back, was used in the reenacting of the picture for Dr. Wallace.

There was no part of bulletmakers just or back or monkey hat, used to fake the picture. You are looking at the real thing, and its your right to see what you see.

Still waiting for the truth...

[LAL]

What about the primate expert who claimed he saw gorilla-like figures in the "3 sasquatch" picture?

Newbies such as myself were presented with a "done deal" on the photo because of this unnamed guy's analysis. Seems I've read he was a friend of a relative (Bullet's stepson?)working on a degree. I can see why he wouldn't want to be named.

In-depth photo analysis wasn't exactly encouraged although we got as far as not getting a committee together.

Maybe Tornado can verify Dr. Meldrum saw the "bigfoot walking by" photo at Honobia last year and let us know what he really said.

[kitakaze]

The creatures, were so close, that they brushed up against the camera, causeing the camera to tilt, and shoot the picture. If you look up to the right hand of the photo, you will see the top of tree branches, and the blue sky, which meant the camera was angleing upward at the moment the shutter snaped the picture.

A simple yes or no question, tornado. Could Bullet Maker, wearing the monkey hat thing, have also account for the picture?

[Vortigern99]

Hello Vortigern99
It wasnt like bulletmaker was standing there taking a picture of this creature. The camera, was a game camera, which means, it was strapped to a tree, and if any game comes by, deer, turkey, dogs, etc. bigfoot. it will take a picture of whatever comes in front of the camera. So the camera was strapped to a tree for a month before the film was developed.left buy itself on the tree. What happened is, the bigfoots came to close to the camera. You have to be 31 inches from the lens of the camera to take a good picture. Anything closer than the 31 inches, will be blurry, which is what happend. The creatures, were so close, that they brushed up against the camera, causeing the camera to tilt, and shoot the picture. If you look up to the right hand of the photo, you will see the top of tree branches, and the blue sky, which meant the camera was angleing upward at the moment the shutter snaped the picture.
You can see the baby bigfoot looking over the shoulder of (I assume) a female bigfoot. His face or her face, is clearer, cause of the 31 inch rule.

Hello, and thank you for the reply and technical corrections. However, the fact remains that no clear forms, mammalian or otherwise, can be distinguished in the picture.

Further, in an above post, "Telenay's G'son" claims he was one of the four who viewed the pic and that despite your assertion to the contrary, neither he nor another individual, once "D.G.", agreed that the pic represented one or more bigfoot.

Of course, I have no way to verify that these individuals were in fact present at this viewing, but would you care to give us your opinion as to why Telenay G'son would so roundly reject your assessment of the outcome of that viewing?

Thanks in advance.

[tornado]

What about the primate expert who claimed he saw gorilla-like figures in the "3 sasquatch" picture?

Newbies such as myself were presented with a "done deal" on the photo because of this unnamed guy's analysis. Seems I've read he was a friend of a relative (Bullet's stepson?)working on a degree. I can see why he wouldn't want to be named.

In-depth photo analysis wasn't exactly encouraged although we got as far as not getting a committee together.

Maybe Tornado can verify Dr. Meldrum saw the "bigfoot walking by" photo at Honobia last year and let us know what he really said.




No, he wasn`t working on a degree, he already had one. He was the head primatologist of the zoo.

I dont know what Dr. Meldrum said, because I wasn`t there.

As far as this photo of the three bigfoot`s , he did say he saw what was there, course he was looking at the orginal picture. He was very excited about the photo`s.

[tornado]

A simple yes or no question, tornado. Could Bullet Maker, wearing the monkey hat thing, have also account for the picture?



No.

[tornado]

No, he wasn`t working on a degree, he already had one. He was the head primatologist of the zoo.

I dont know what Dr. Meldrum said, because I wasn`t there.

As far as this photo of the three bigfoot`s , he did say he saw what was there, course he was looking at the orginal picture. He was very excited about the photo`s.


I would like to add, that yes LAL, you are correct, the guy is a friend of bulletmakers step son. His name is Rick somthing or another. I didn`t catch his last name, but he travels around the U.S.A, helping other zoo`s in planning and helping get there gorilla program`s started, and directs the building of the habitat. Forgive my mispelling LAL, My spell check went out on the comuptor for some reason. and I`m a terrible speller. LOL

Thanks for the question LAL, if you have anymore, let me know. :)

[LAL]

No, he wasn`t working on a degree, he already had one. He was the head primatologist of the zoo.

Okay, head primatologist at the zoo. Sometimes information is relayed incorrectly. Is he a friend of your .....uh.......Bullet's stepson?


I dont know what Dr. Meldrum said, because I wasn`t there.

As far as this photo of the three bigfoot`s , he did say he saw what was there, course he was looking at the orginal picture. He was very excited about the photo`s.

Were you not there for that too? Do you think he'll confirm that if I e-mail him about it?

[GT/CS]

OK, I'm confused again.

If the national media jumped all over the Georgia Boyz hoax why did they ignore the fuzzy monkey pictures taken by persons referenced in this thread?

If the photos are so clear and convincing, and expert(s) declared them to show 3 real bigfeets why no media coverage?

[tornado]

Okay, head primatologist at the zoo. Sometimes information is relayed incorrectly. Is he a friend of your .....uh.......Bullet's stepson?



Were you not there for that too? Do you think he'll confirm that if I e-mail him about it?



LAL, the primatologist is a friend of bulletmakers step son.



Were you not there for that too? Do you think he'll confirm that if I e-mail him about it?[/QUOTE]


What do you mean? and who are you talking about? bulletmakers stepson? or Dr. Meldrum?

If your refering to Dr. Meldrum, He`s never seen the picture of the three bigfoots. I dont know what you are talking about on that one. Sorry. :)

[tornado]

OK, I'm confused again.

If the national media jumped all over the Georgia Boyz hoax why did they ignore the fuzzy monkey pictures taken by persons referenced in this thread?

If the photos are so clear and convincing, and expert(s) declared them to show 3 real bigfeets why no media coverage?




If the national media jumped all over the Georgia Boyz hoax why did they ignore the fuzzy monkey pictures taken by persons referenced in this thread?
Answer:, they dont know about these photo`s. They were never shown them. :)



If the photos are so clear and convincing, and expert(s) declared them to show 3 real bigfeets why no media coverage?[/QUOTE]

Answer: Same answer as the above.:)

[tornado]

Okay, head primatologist at the zoo. Sometimes information is relayed incorrectly. Is he a friend of your .....uh.......Bullet's stepson?



Were you not there for that too? Do you think he'll confirm that if I e-mail him about it?




I think I see the problem now LAL. you thought I said Dr. Meldrum saw the pictures, No it wasn`t Dr. Meldrum, It was the primatolgist (Rick), that said he saw the bigfoots right off the bat, when he fist saw the pictures, of bulletmaker. I hope that helps. and yes you can e-mail Rick anytime you want, course I havent a clue as to his last name. and he wouldn`t comment on it anyhow for fear of loosing his job. :boxedin:

[Telaynay's G'son]

OK, I'm confused again.

If the national media jumped all over the Georgia Boyz hoax why did they ignore the fuzzy monkey pictures taken by persons referenced in this thread?

If the photos are so clear and convincing, and expert(s) declared them to show 3 real bigfeets why no media coverage?

Consider the following facts:

Myself, Dr. Wallace, D.G., WW, Todd E. & Bill G. (owner of the GBO & BF Study websites) have all examined this photo FTF and all came to the same (as previously stated) conclusion.

BM, er...Tornado sent a copy of it to the legendary M.K. Davis for examination however he (BM) asked Davis not to publicly comment on it. Hmmmmm.

Dr. Wallace conducted a series of reference photos (post event) to corroborate or dispute BM's assertions. From that effort and based upon our personal experience of examining the exact site there are serious doubts said photo could have been taken when BM asserts such happened. In fact, he (BM) has previously stated that he didn't even remove the camera (after I informed him it wasn't working, a few days earlier) instead, relying upon a relative (Kenny) to retrieve it.

IMHO, what we have here is a classic case of the tar baby dilemma in that BM is far too deep into the deal to retract anything. All he's left with is to continue to scream about it's authenticity in the desperate hope that if he does it loud enough and for long enough it will become accepted truth. Last I heard the term for such was The Big Lie but history hasn't been kind to that M.O. as the facts seem to have a way of percolating to the top in the end.

Like D.G. stated in the original GBO thread on this fiasco..."show's over folks, time to move on."

[mikeyx]

OK, I'm confused again.

If the national media jumped all over the Georgia Boyz hoax why did they ignore the fuzzy monkey pictures taken by persons referenced in this thread?

If the photos are so clear and convincing, and expert(s) declared them to show 3 real bigfeets why no media coverage?


methinks you answered your own question

[GT/CS]

If the national media jumped all over the Georgia Boyz hoax why did they ignore the fuzzy monkey pictures taken by persons referenced in this thread?
Answer:, they dont know about these photo`s. They were never shown them. :)



If the photos are so clear and convincing, and expert(s) declared them to show 3 real bigfeets why no media coverage?

Answer: Same answer as the above.:)[/QUOTE]

Why have the photos that clearly show bigfeets never been shown to the media?

[mikeyx]

Answer: Same answer as the above.:)

Why have the photos that clearly show bigfeets never been shown to the media?[/QUOTE]

To show them to the media you have to have them. Bullet-Tornado doesn't.

[LAL]

BM, er...Tornado sent a copy of it to the legendary M.K. Davis for examination however he (BM) asked Davis not to publicly comment on it. Hmmmmm.


My information is that Davis' conclusion was that it's a tree knot with leaves.

[kitakaze]

I think I see the problem now LAL. you thought I said Dr. Meldrum saw the pictures, No it wasn`t Dr. Meldrum, It was the primatolgist (Rick), that said he saw the bigfoots right off the bat, when he fist saw the pictures, of bulletmaker. I hope that helps. and yes you can e-mail Rick anytime you want, course I havent a clue as to his last name. and he wouldn`t comment on it anyhow for fear of loosing his job. :boxedin:

You would understand then that we should naturally dismiss this as an unverifiable claim, yes?

[Tyinhell]

Why have the photos that clearly show bigfeets never been shown to the media?

I remember when Bulletmaker was first talking about this photo on Graybeard's forum back in late '05, I believe.

His initial plan was to sell it to the media GT and if I recall correctly part of the big build up, before he would consider posting the picture on the internet, surrounded around him and his lawyer waiting to hear back from National Geographic, one of several media outlets he tried to sell the photo to and thought would pay a large amount of money for.

I think he even promised to throw a huge shindig at property with all the fixin's after the sale went through and invited every one on the forum to it...:rolleyes:

[rockinkt]

Why have the photos that clearly show bigfeets never been shown to the media?

Because the sound of loud laughter irritates BM?

[LAL]

I think I see the problem now LAL. you thought I said Dr. Meldrum saw the pictures, No it wasn`t Dr. Meldrum, It was the primatolgist (Rick), that said he saw the bigfoots right off the bat, when he fist saw the pictures, of bulletmaker. I hope that helps. and yes you can e-mail Rick anytime you want, course I havent a clue as to his last name. and he wouldn`t comment on it anyhow for fear of loosing his job. :boxedin:

No, I didn't.

DW said the picture - or pictures - were shown to Dr. Meldrum at Honobia last year. I asked what he said and the reply was to the effect of Meldrum was interested and wanted to see something clearer.

Of course DW and ST got my question for Meldrum totally screwed up, so I wouldn't be surprised if other things were screwed up too.

Meldrum's a polite guy.

[desertgal]

Why have the photos that clearly show bigfeets never been shown to the media?

More pointedly, would everyone here who really believes that a person with a photo that clearly shows Bigfeets would refrain from revealing said picture to the media and reaping the benefits of fame, fortune, respect, and groupies please raise your hands?

One.

Okay, now, would everyone here except tornado who really believes that a person with a photo that clearly shows Bigfeets would refrain from revealing said picture to the media and reaping the benefits of fame, fortune, respect, and groupies please raise your hands?

That's what I thought.

[tornado]

More pointedly, would everyone here who really believes that a person with a photo that clearly shows Bigfeets would refrain from revealing said picture to the media and reaping the benefits of fame, fortune, respect, and groupies please raise your hands?

One.

Okay, now, would everyone here except tornado who really believes that a person with a photo that clearly shows Bigfeets would refrain from revealing said picture to the media and reaping the benefits of fame, fortune, respect, and groupies please raise your hands?

That's what I thought.

How do you know he didn`t ? Maybe he`s keeping his mouth shut, cause of the other people, that claim it is their photo as well :D

Edited to fix quote tags.

[tornado]

My information is that Davis' conclusion was that it's a tree knot with leaves.


Bulletmakers first mistake was sending it to MK Davis . why would Davis say it was a tree knot?, then again why would Davis say it was a bigfoot at all, when Davis, is pimping his Paterson film. It would be like the fox guarding the hen house, dont you think.;)

Not saying Davis did or did not say the tree knot thing. But he didnt say anything to bulletmaker except he couldnt see anything in the picture. ;)

[tornado]

Consider the following facts:

Myself, Dr. Wallace, D.G., WW, Todd E. & Bill G. (owner of the GBO & BF Study websites) have all examined this photo FTF and all came to the same (as previously stated) conclusion.

BM, er...Tornado sent a copy of it to the legendary M.K. Davis for examination however he (BM) asked Davis not to publicly comment on it. Hmmmmm.

Dr. Wallace conducted a series of reference photos (post event) to corroborate or dispute BM's assertions. From that effort and based upon our personal experience of examining the exact site there are serious doubts said photo could have been taken when BM asserts such happened. In fact, he (BM) has previously stated that he didn't even remove the camera (after I informed him it wasn't working, a few days earlier) instead, relying upon a relative (Kenny) to retrieve it.

IMHO, what we have here is a classic case of the tar baby dilemma in that BM is far too deep into the deal to retract anything. All he's left with is to continue to scream about it's authenticity in the desperate hope that if he does it loud enough and for long enough it will become accepted truth. Last I heard the term for such was The Big Lie but history hasn't been kind to that M.O. as the facts seem to have a way of percolating to the top in the end.

Like D.G. stated in the original GBO thread on this fiasco..."show's over folks, time to move on."







TGS said: BM, er...Tornado sent a copy of it to the legendary M.K. Davis for examination however he (BM) asked Davis not to publicly comment on it. Hmmmmm.

You got your story wrong again TGS, it was M.K. Davis, that said that, and bulletmaker agreed with him, that yes he would not comment on the picture to any outside sources. So you tgs, need to get your facts straight before you comment on something that you know nothing about.


Edited for topic

[desertgal]

How do you know he didn`t ? Maybe he`s keeping his mouth shut, cause of the other people, that claim it is their photo as well :D


In order to have sold it, you would have needed someone willing to buy it - and even The Weekly World News would kill themselves laughing over that picture.

[tornado]

news flash:...MABRC is busting up. Ed Smith causes Bulletmaker to resign. Riot over the fact that Ed Smith is trying to take control and Darkwing, and Driveroperator, sits back and does, nothing.

[Correa Neto]

Channeling CFLarsen...

Evidence?

[Drewbot]

I can confirm that Bullet Maker, according to Darkwing, is no longer part of the MABRC.

4/14/09 Last night, Bullet Maker tendered his resignation with the MABRC, and requested all the posts in the Bullet Maker Den be removed from the forum. As it was posted on the forum, it will be moved to the archives and can still be viewed by forum members.

We wish Bullet the best in his endeavors as we part ways.

[kitakaze]

news flash:...MABRC is busting up. Ed Smith causes Bulletmaker to resign. Riot over the fact that Ed Smith is trying to take control and Darkwing, and Driveroperator, sits back and does, nothing.

Why would Bullet leaving the MABRC be considered a breakup of the MABRC? He's only listed as an organizational member. Not to mention one that causes them a lot of headaches and gives them a bad reputation. I would think the MABRC should be happy to see him go.

[Telaynay's G'son]

Things are getting interesting...

http://www.somethingstinksinskinneyville.blogspot.com/

I heard that Ed Smith's true intentions were to crater MABRC...so far, he's doing an admirable job at that task.

[GT/CS]

How do you know he didn`t ? Maybe he`s keeping his mouth shut, cause of the other people, that claim it is their photo as well :D

Edited to fix quote tags.

So now that the MABRC has imploded who gets the rights to these priceless photos? It'd be a shame for such an important discovery to be kept from the eagerly-awaiting scientific community just because a few people can't get along.

Someone needs to grow a pair, step up, post the photos, and prove the skeptics wrong!!!

[Telaynay's G'son]

More evidence of MABRC's implosion...

Administrator
Bigfootstudy Regular

Offline

Posts: 218


Re: Someone beat me to it...
« Reply #100 on: Yesterday at 11:02:34 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: darkwinglh on Yesterday at 07:47:36 PM
http://truthfromtrolls.blogspot.com/ is another good blog to look at since we keep posting blog links


I actually took some time and read some admittedly not all of the blog. What I was rather surprised to find on it were private correspondence between Darren and myself. Things the two of us agreed to hold private between us only. He has violated that trust proving to me he is no gentleman at all and now makes me wonder if John's comments regarding him really are true after all.

We had been in negotiation for him to buy this domain. He commented to me that it appeared to him John had damaged it to the point it wouldn't be worth the asking price. No doubt a ploy to get a lower price or perhaps because his organization is collapsing around him he really can't raise the funds. Regardless his ungentleman like behavior has caused me to ban him from this site and to withdraw my offer to sell the domain to him. I do not wish to do business with folks who violate a trust and he has.

Below is my e-mail notice to him:


Quote
Well Darren,

I must say I am disappointed in you. I thought you a gentleman in spite of the assurances from John to the contrary. Now I see you have violated a trust between us by placing the private notes between us on open blog to get at John. I guess you are a sicker man than I realized. Prior to that realization I had been willing to sell you the domain which of course you declined likely due to an inability to come up with the money with your own site falling apart around you.

You are now banned from Bigfoot Study and the offer to sell the domain to you is hereby withdrawn. Finding you are in fact no gentleman at all I no longer wish any further association with you business or private. I prefer to associate with a higher class of folks than those who publicly betray private trusts.

Bill

Logged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ill
Webmaster, BigfootStudy.com

[burmballgeetar]

Hello all, I see some familiar names here and look forward to posting here.

About 3 months ago, I applied for and got membership to the MABRC. It seemed to be a reasonable site that wasn't going to charge me to come along on an expedition. After frequenting other forums of the bigfoot variety, I also came to the conclusion that it was great to see such civility exercised on their site. Imagine my surprise to find that the forum wasn't clogged with sarcastic remarks and jabs.

With that in mind, I can deal with any photos of blobsquatches that come up as I am allowed to speak my mind and actually have an opinion, which becomes a problem on other sites. I have no problem telling somebody that I cannot see anything in their picture. I don't see bigfoot in every picture that is submitted.

You won't see me spouting off at the mouth about how much proof we have and we have definitely had our bumps and bruises recently but to tell the truth, I really think that to assume the MABRC is imploding or being sabotaged to the point of failure is ridiculous.

The problem with bigfoot is that there are folks who are obssessed to an unhealthy point with being recognized as being an "end-all, say-all" type of authority. This kind of attitude is an exercise in futility. Nobody is a bigfoot expert because nobody has proven it to exist.

The fact that the MABRC has many members and is getting rather good at pooling its resources and networking between it's members should turn some heads. In short, I guess I just wanted to say that with all of the nonsense that goes on, the MABRC is not only devoted to the mystery of Bigfoot but is also a fun place to try to contribute.

[kitakaze]

(snip)

You won't see me spouting off at the mouth about how much proof we have and we have definitely had our bumps and bruises recently but to tell the truth, I really think that to assume the MABRC is imploding or being sabotaged to the point of failure is ridiculous.

(snip)

In short, I guess I just wanted to say that with all of the nonsense that goes on, the MABRC is not only devoted to the mystery of Bigfoot but is also a fun place to try to contribute.

BBG, first, let me say welcome to the JREF. As a member of the MABRC you opinion and insight is welcome. I have to say that I agree with you about the MABRC not imploding. I think their may be a general sense of the group catching some flack and that is the reason you see the "under construction" sign there. I think Darren is trying to give his group a reprieve from the scrutiny and while I disagree with wagon-circle and turtle maneuver, I can understand his choice.

I don't think Doug Bilby/Bullet Maker leaving the MABRC is any kind of implosion. I think it could be considered more of a cutting the fat. I think Darren/Darkwing tried to be reasonable with Bullet and Bullet just didn't feel like being reasonable. I have often said I expected Darren Lee/Darkwing and Randy Harrington/driveroperator would become fed up with Bullet's antics and it now has become the case. The following message regarding Bullet Maker's departure was sent by Darkwing in correspondence with Drewbot here who is also over at MABRC and permission was given to share with us:

Drew,
Just to let you know, because you have kept quite a few of our discussions private as requested, I will tell you what happened with Bullet. Yes, he is Tornado, like I've told you before, and that is one issue why he is gone, because he can't keep his mouth shut about things and creating accounts over at JREF and attacking folks. He also began demanding to be the center of attention at the MABRC, attacking the radio show because he wasn't on it, and that he was the ultimate expert on all things bigfoot. There is more, but Bullet did a lot of damage on things with Ed Smith that may be irreparable, and his bullsh*t was too much to handle anymore.

Hope that explains it, and as far as I am concerned, Bullet is on his own at JREF and everywhere else now.

DW

I doublechecked to make sure with Drew I could post that. That should make why Bullet is gone from the MABRC quite clear. The point of all that being is that Bullet was member and is not any longer which may in the end be better for him and the MABRC. The MABRC won't have Bullet's property to squatch on but I don't think that will impede their ability to find Bigfoot one bit. Bullet won't be able to sell his In the Shadows With Bullet Maker CD's on the MABRC's website but nothing should stop Bullet from keeping his contacts and selling his CD's on his own. With the MABRC being less distracted, maybe they can do better at getting evidence for Bigfoot.

[Drewbot]

Yes, Darkwing gave me permission to share it with you. Edited for topic
I can also tell you that Darkwing is trying to refocus the MABRC back to searching for Bigfeet, and not playing politics.

[tornado]

Edited for topic
For those of you that dont know what I`m talking about, the MABRC---will take blankets, and cover their car windows, so that no bigfoot will peek in at them, then they sit like that in their cars, waiting on bigfoot.
Edited for civility

[tornado]

Drew,
Just to let you know, because you have kept quite a few of our discussions private as requested, I will tell you what happened with Bullet. Yes, he is Tornado, like I've told you before, and that is one issue why he is gone, because he can't keep his mouth shut about things and creating accounts over at JREF and attacking folks."Say what? attacking folks, like who? Edited for topic


He also began demanding to be the center of attention at the MABRC, attacking the radio show because he wasn't on it, and that he was the ultimate expert on all things bigfoot."again another lie. I never attacked the show. Edited for topic


There is more, but Bullet did a lot of damage on things with Ed Smith that may be irreparable, and his bullsh*t was too much to handle anymore.I didnt do a darn thing to Ed Smith, He is the one to use me, so he could back out on you cause he had no proof of any bigfoots. In fact the case you are referring to is the only time Ed Smith ever said anything about me."

Hope that explains it, and as far as I am concerned, Bullet is on his own at JREF and everywhere else now.

DW
Darn right I`m on my own, I always have been and will be, I did you a favor for even being on that looser of a site. called mabrc,

bullet maker

I've approved this as a reply to a previous post but please get back on-topic

[GT/CS]

BBG, first, let me say welcome to the JREF. As a member of the MABRC you opinion and insight is welcome. I have to say that I agree with you about the MABRC not imploding. I think their may be a general sense of the group catching some flack and that is the reason you see the "under construction" sign there. I think Darren is trying to give his group a reprieve from the scrutiny and while I disagree with wagon-circle and turtle maneuver, I can understand his choice.

I don't think Doug Bilby/Bullet Maker leaving the MABRC is any kind of implosion. I think it could be considered more of a cutting the fat. I think Darren/Darkwing tried to be reasonable with Bullet and Bullet just didn't feel like being reasonable. I have often said I expected Darren Lee/Darkwing and Randy Harrington/driveroperator would become fed up with Bullet's antics and it now has become the case. The following message regarding Bullet Maker's departure was sent by Darkwing in correspondence with Drewbot here who is also over at MABRC and permission was given to share with us:



Wait a minute, I thought Ed Smith was in charge. How about a quick recap of the players?

[burmballgeetar]

Kitikaze, I have to agree with you. In my opinion, the statements recently about the MABRC imploding or failing are just wishful thinking on the part of some of the former members and antagonists. Melodrama between people who really don't have much to say and who say it rather loudly. It really surprised me how horrible Bigfoot Groups are to each other.

I actually just went on my first MABRC Expedition a few weeks ago and I was really impressed with how much effort was put into getting it together and executed. We got some wood knocks recorded but beyond that there wasn't much.

[kitakaze]

Kitikaze, I have to agree with you. In my opinion, the statements recently about the MABRC imploding or failing are just wishful thinking on the part of some of the former members and antagonists. Melodrama between people who really don't have much to say and who say it rather loudly. It really surprised me how horrible Bigfoot Groups are to each other.

I actually just went on my first MABRC Expedition a few weeks ago and I was really impressed with how much effort was put into getting it together and executed. We got some wood knocks recorded but beyond that there wasn't much.

That's what I love about the MABRC. Darren, Randy, and the boys really know how to squatch. They get their squatch on serious. I'm always impressed with the work and love they put into their Bigfoot activities and videos. No matter what I think about Bigfoot or what I think is silly behaviour, I will alsways enjoy that aspect of the MABRC more than any other organization.

I think Darren has realized a long time ago that I and those like me are not his enemies and the people who would damage his group have always been much closer to home.

[mikeyx]

Kitikaze, I have to agree with you. In my opinion, the statements recently about the MABRC imploding or failing are just wishful thinking on the part of some of the former members and antagonists. Melodrama between people who really don't have much to say and who say it rather loudly. It really surprised me how horrible Bigfoot Groups are to each other.

I actually just went on my first MABRC Expedition a few weeks ago and I was really impressed with how much effort was put into getting it together and executed. We got some wood knocks recorded but beyond that there wasn't much.

I think you guys really need to refocus your efforts towards honest research and think really hard about posting claims and posting RESULTS when and if you get them.

[darkwing]

Kitakaze, I want to say thank you for the statement to BBG about your understanding of the situation.

Let me address a few things to set things straight. There are several on this thread who are responsible for all the rumors concerning the MABRC imploding. One is a former admin, who betrayed the trust placed in them, and gave information to the owner of a blog to post. Even admitting as much on their personal blog.

Contrary to popular belief, Bulletmaker held no positions of authority within the MABRC organization, and the only reason he was given a forum of his own to post his stories on, was to get a record of those sightings that occurred on his land (by hunters, renters and neighbors) as Bullet couldn't get it through his head that proper documentation needed to be done on those sightings. His Audio CDs that were for sell, was advertised on the forum, but people should understand, that I would have advertised for other members of the MABRC should they have asked me to.

Bulletmaker's pictures, again contrary to popular belief to the outside world, was never endorsed by the MABRC, and it was posted as such, that Bulletmaker was making the claims, not the MABRC. One of the guidelines that the MABRC follows, is that everyone has their opinion and can voice it, as long as it isn't forced upon someone else. Some seen what Bullet was claiming in the pics, and others didn't. But folks were allowed their opinions of it. When they were shown to Meldrum at Honobia, he clearly did not see what Bullet was claiming, and that was relayed back to Bullet and even told to LAL.

When LAL left the organization, Bullet appeared over here as Thunder and began harassing her, when I discovered that, I told Bullet to stop, but he wouldn't, and now, because of this, there is a war going on through the use of blogs. Something regrettable that happened, that could have been avoided had Bullet listened to reason. But the other side could stand to listen to reason to, as a backlash in the bigfoot community is growing against the authors of these blogs. Even the owner of the BFF has voiced that the actions of the blog writers are improper. It is actually quite childish when you look at what they are trying to accomplish with their actions.

A blow-up between Bullet and Ed Smith occurred last week, in which it caused irreparable damage between the two groups, and since I was on the road, the conflict required me to have an admin shut the forum down until I returned. Unable to understand that the forum was disabled, Bullet called DO up that night and tendered his resignation. The next morning, when the forum came back online, Bullet came back on and acted like nothing even happened. And when I talked to DO that morning and he told me Bullet tendered his resignation the night before, I immediately implemented it. Bullet then began claiming he was going to announce it first himself and that I was wrong to not let him do it.

And yes, we have grown tired of his antics, and the fact he tries to draw the MABRC, DO and myself into his fueds.

As for the forum being "under construction", Kitakaze is correct, I am trying to give the MABRC and it's members a reprieve from all the attacks, as many outsiders copy and paste information from the forum and contort the meanings of the posts by only showing small tidbits and then giving the impression that it means something else. By closing off guest access, this solved some of this, although some of our detractors have resorted to creating fake accounts and submitting fake membership applications to circumvent this and try to view the forum.

As for Ed Smith, many tend to think that he was a MABRC Member, and that is incorrect. He was a forum member only. There are two distinct groups on the forum. Forum Members are just like everyone here, a member of the forum only. MABRC Organizational members, are folks who are members of the Organization. Ed Smith came onto the scene about 8 months ago, and after becoming comfortable with the MABRC Forums, asked if we could replicate the experiments that his group was doing to see what results would be, if they would lend credibility to their results. Because of this, Ed would not submit an application to join the MABRC Organization, because then it would not be an independent verification of their findings if he was a member in both groups.

The MABRC also began an investigation into Ed's claims of evidence that would have cultimated with the May 2 summit meeting, in which we would have a core team present to view what evidence there was. The MABRC did not want to rock the boat, to give any excuse for this meeting to be called off, to try and see it through to May 2nd. This was not what Bullet wanted though, as he felt he knew more than anyone and began fighting with Ed. We knew that if we could make it to May 2, then the mystery of what Ed Smith had would be solved, and we would know if it was truly on the up and up.

Ed Smith posted several announcements on the MABRC forum that was reflections of his group, the Orig-6, not the MABRC. Ed Smith was not running the show, it was still MABRC in charge of the MABRC Forums, despite the claims to the contrary.

A conference call with the MABRC Organization was held last week, in which concerned members of the group had a chance to voice their opinions on the situation, and everyone felt that we should pick ourselves up from the debacle caused by Bullet, and get back to what we started out doing, researching.

The folks who keep trying to demean the MABRC are folks who either were refused membership in the MABRC, or was cast out for actions they committed. Yes the MABRC is tightening access up and even whittling down our Membership rolls of folks who haven't participated in months. We are focusing on issues that have needed to be addressed for a while now, and will come out a stronger, better organization.

We have over 20,000 hours of video footage obtained from the Camera system that was installed at Bullet's property, that was put there to see if some verification could be obtained that Bigfoot were moving around his property, that video is currently under review, and if anything significant is found, it would be released to the public, like we have done before. Other projects have been completed or in the process of being completed, producing information that may aid in future research for everyone, not just the MABRC.

Everyone tends to zoom in on a few bad things, and not look at all the good things going on within an organization. It's like the old saying, you can do a hundred things right, and know one will remember it, but do one thing wrong, and no one will ever forget that.

People are claiming that statements were made in public and they have a right to question them. What they fail to realize, is that the statements they question belong to Ed Smith and Orig-6, and that is who they need to direct their questions and accusations to, as all the MABRC did was allow them to post a statement on the public forum side of the MABRC Forums. Ed Smith did not speak for the MABRC, and that is the bottom line.

Hopefully the MODs will let this post go through without any editing, because it all is written to resolve the questions posted here by others.

[burmballgeetar]

Mikeyx, I appreciate your concern but I don't think that we've gotten away from honest research and/or sharing the results of those efforts. If you are talking about the claims made recently on our forum, you must understand that those claims came not from the MABRC or from an organizational member. The person who posted those claims was a forum member which, to clarify, does not imply any relationship with the MABRC other than the ability to post and read threads on the forum.

One reason that I liked the MABRC to begin with was the fact that they explained away most "evidence" as other things. That amount of skepticism is hard to find in the world of Bigfoot, where crazies run amok. Nobody there was claiming to have psychic connections with it or that it is a multi-dimensional, teleporting alien. While I can't prove anything to the contrary of those statements, I do find a living, breathing mammal a little easier to digest mentally and not feel crazy.

I believe that the next planned expedition is in OK on Memorial Day weekend. While I won't be able to make it, I'm sure that they will make the most of their time in the woods. Individual research is rather important over there too. Someone just recently found and cast some prints and we are currently trying to figure out where we can send hair or scat samples to have them analyzed further than what we are capable of.

[Telaynay's G'son]

Mr. Lee's actions in throwing BM/Tornado under the bus would indicate he has indeed found greener (read: Ed Smith) pastures...prior to "Mr. Smith goes to MABRC", BM occupied the throne of high potentate as volumes of the posting data created by lee & company (much of which has now been excised) illustrated...the crawfishing of his position on BM's photo's also indicate more backwashing in an attempt to salvage the situation...and, while BM is certainly a rascal's rascal the fact Mr. Lee continues to associate with an individual with a documented history of criminal justice and psychological (anger management, et. al.) baggage still leaves him with trying to get the good ship MABRC back up on plane while dragging the Titanic's iceberg.

People, you can't make this stuff up. :jaw-dropp

[LAL]

One is a former admin, who betrayed the trust placed in them, and gave information to the owner of a blog to post. Even admitting as much on their personal blog.

If you're referring to me (there are only two former admins that I know of) I would certainly like to see you verify that. My personal blog link is in my sig line. Anyone can check it out. I would certainly like to see where information has been posted, with or without permission to post, where either of us admitted "as much" and what the heck it is. One blog owner wanted you to apologize to me. Is that the one you mean?

Former admins are not bound by your rules.

You still haven't told me what information I supposedly conveyed when I was an admin. Am I the only one who doesn't know?

I've been told it may have something to do with a scheduled speaker confronting you about the way you and DO talk about members of other organizations. I can see where you wouldn't want to spell it out if this is the case.

I warned you months ago the slurs could get back to the people you two talk about. In one case I know about the slur got to the sluree from a chat I wasn't in. You were warned about board security too, but not by me. Ever hear of hackers? If you guys must talk that way you should really keep it to the phone.

We'd already had huge breaches of confidentiality. Was anyone demoted for leaking a confidential discussion on evidence (or non-evidence) to a team? Was anything done to DO about telling BM/tornado something that was only mentioned in a confidential MABRC mod thread I started so that it came out here in highly distorted form? Was DO called to order on his own similar inaccurate, defamatory post that followed on a public MABRC thread where I couldn't reply because I don't have an account? Was your spin on any other resignation posted on a public part of your forum where it could be reposted on other boards as well? Was I a first? Why?

You made an assumption and posted it as fact. This is not the only time I've seen this happen and you seem to be doing it again here.

I used to make excuses for it (overwork, faulty memory), but I'm tired of the twisting. There are issues of credibility that shouldn't be ignored. For one, you did not tell me the same story on Dr. Meldrum and Bullet's picture that you're telling here. We discussed that by PM, didn't we? You should have a copy. There are other examples, but I won't go into them now.

I dropped in through a link today (I don't have JREF bookmarked anymore) to reply to a totally unrelated PM and saw this. You can count how many times I've posted on this thread, DW, and read exactly what I've said - and you think I'M keeping this going?

I hope the mods will let this post go through unedited as well. The accused should have a right to reply, IMO, and this seems to be the only message board left where DW and I both have an account. ;)

[link]

Below are DW's answers to things that he should have originally before this had to be dragged into the light and then into the mud. He's only doing this now because a group of folks that have become sick of the crap that goes on BEHIND THE SCENES, you know the other stuff, have begun sharing information and putting it out for those who are thinking of joining this group. Let the buyer beware and read it all. Let's have a look:

Let me address a few things to set things straight. There are several on this thread who are responsible for all the rumors concerning the MABRC imploding. One is a former admin, who betrayed the trust placed in them, and gave information to the owner of a blog to post. Even admitting as much on their personal blog.

Is this against a written policy or just something that makes you look bad. It seems Vella was banned for reserving his name, was that against written policy, and if so, where?

Contrary to popular belief, Bulletmaker held no positions of authority within the MABRC organization, and the only reason he was given a forum of his own to post his stories on, was to get a record of those sightings that occurred on his land (by hunters, renters and neighbors) as Bullet couldn't get it through his head that proper documentation needed to be done on those sightings. His Audio CDs that were for sell, was advertised on the forum, but people should understand, that I would have advertised for other members of the MABRC should they have asked me to.

He was listed at one point in time as a co founder, that implies authority. Your response? By offering the CDs up for sale are you not endorsing them by allowing their sale? It would seem so.

Bulletmaker's pictures, again contrary to popular belief to the outside world, was never endorsed by the MABRC, and it was posted as such, that Bulletmaker was making the claims, not the MABRC. One of the guidelines that the MABRC follows, is that everyone has their opinion and can voice it, as long as it isn't forced upon someone else. Some seen what Bullet was claiming in the pics, and others didn't. But folks were allowed their opinions of it. When they were shown to Meldrum at Honobia, he clearly did not see what Bullet was claiming, and that was relayed back to Bullet and even told to LAL.

"Even" told to LAL? Any reason for her to be out of the loop? Isnt this the person who you had building up your encyclopedia? Is she a moderator at one point? How does that look? With Bullet's claims being so dubious and you allowing them to be posted there how does that makes things look? You're either endorsing or ignoring, which is it?

When LAL left the organization, Bullet appeared over here as Thunder and began harassing her, when I discovered that, I told Bullet to stop, but he wouldn't, and now, because of this, there is a war going on through the use of blogs.

Not a war, an expose. There's a difference. And BM is over here as tornado, not thunder. I guess that wasn't in the forecast.

Something regrettable that happened, that could have been avoided had Bullet listened to reason. But the other side could stand to listen to reason to, as a backlash in the bigfoot community is growing against the authors of these blogs.

Or you could have bounce BM and shown some responsibility and control over YOUR venue, instead you let BM troll here, and elsewhere.

Backlash? Proof? Or wishful thinking and which blog? The one that makes a point to attack TGS, or the Myspace pages that attack TGS? Done by either yourself or Driveroperator? THE Driveroperator who with BM went to TGS' house to harrass his wife and kids? Comments?

Even the owner of the BFF has voiced that the actions of the blog writers are improper. It is actually quite childish when you look at what they are trying to accomplish with their actions.

The very same leader of the BFF that suspended you for posting copywrited material to youtube and linking to it on the BFF, causing them a liability, which you have admitted to? And he said unprofessional, actually. Get your facts straight.

A blow-up between Bullet and Ed Smith occurred last week, in which it caused irreparable damage between the two groups, and since I was on the road, the conflict required me to have an admin shut the forum down until I returned.

No, dodging or responsibility is what it was. You let Ed Smith have too much say/control over your board, it's that simple, and it blew up in your face.

Unable to understand that the forum was disabled, Bullet called DO up that night and tendered his resignation. The next morning, when the forum came back online, Bullet came back on and acted like nothing even happened. And when I talked to DO that morning and he told me Bullet tendered his resignation the night before, I immediately implemented it. Bullet then began claiming he was going to announce it first himself and that I was wrong to not let him do it.

Then why not let him do it himself. It seems egotistical and downright callous to do it "for him" after all the access to his land he's given you and your group. It seems like you threw him under the bus.

And yes, we have grown tired of his antics, and the fact he tries to draw the MABRC, DO and myself into his fueds.

Especially when Driveropertor has much time to devote to attacking TGS, and was banned on Bigfoot study about an hour ago for doing exactly that as a sock puppet named truther.

As for the forum being "under construction", Kitakaze is correct, I am trying to give the MABRC and it's members a reprieve from all the attacks, as many outsiders copy and paste information from the forum and contort the meanings of the posts by only showing small tidbits and then giving the impression that it means something else. By closing off guest access, this solved some of this, although some of our detractors have resorted to creating fake accounts and submitting fake membership applications to circumvent this and try to view the forum.

No you did it to do damage control, so your members won't start seeing what the rest of us see, and so those on the outside can't react to your spin doctoring. Most of what has been transcribed elsewhere has been either in your own words and mostly from OUTSIDE SOURCES; here and bigfootstudy chiefly among them.

As for Ed Smith, many tend to think that he was a MABRC Member, and that is incorrect. He was a forum member only.

Admission noted, but if he wasn't a MABRC member why did you give him so much influence over things there. Now you have forced BM out of the group, but not before severing ties with Smith, who is going to likely lure Driver Operator away from the MABRC anyway. What happens then?

There are two distinct groups on the forum. Forum Members are just like everyone here, a member of the forum only. MABRC Organizational members, are folks who are members of the Organization. Ed Smith came onto the scene about 8 months ago, and after becoming comfortable with the MABRC Forums, asked if we could replicate the experiments that his group was doing to see what results would be, if they would lend credibility to their results. Because of this, Ed would not submit an application to join the MABRC Organization, because then it would not be an independent verification of their findings if he was a member in both groups.

The MABRC also began an investigation into Ed's claims of evidence that would have cultimated with the May 2 summit meeting, in which we would have a core team present to view what evidence there was. The MABRC did not want to rock the boat, to give any excuse for this meeting to be called off, to try and see it through to May 2nd. This was not what Bullet wanted though, as he felt he knew more than anyone and began fighting with Ed. We knew that if we could make it to May 2, then the mystery of what Ed Smith had would be solved, and we would know if it was truly on the up and up.

So you either couldn't control BM, or again, you let Smith have too much influence over your group, and now BOTH are gone. Incidentally, we have access to that thread and will be reviewing it, and are in contact with Smith ourselves to discuss some things.

Ed Smith posted several announcements on the MABRC forum that was reflections of his group, the Orig-6, not the MABRC. Ed Smith was not running the show, it was still MABRC in charge of the MABRC Forums, despite the claims to the contrary.

That statement is hollow, false and doesn't reflect the majority opinion of your group's membership. You simply mishandled this, badly. Very badly.

A conference call with the MABRC Organization was held last week, in which concerned members of the group had a chance to voice their opinions on the situation, and everyone felt that we should pick ourselves up from the debacle caused by Bullet, and get back to what we started out doing, researching.

Nope. YOU were in charge, so debacle cause by you.

The folks who keep trying to demean the MABRC are folks who either were refused membership in the MABRC, or was cast out for actions they committed. Yes the MABRC is tightening access up and even whittling down our Membership rolls of folks who haven't participated in months. We are focusing on issues that have needed to be addressed for a while now, and will come out a stronger, better organization. [quote]

No, it was an attempt to wake up the rank and file and have them take a good hard look at was what actually happening in the group and force change. Some of which has been made, BM is gone and Smith has been deprived of excess influence. Both of these things are for the betterment of MABRC and you are welcome for them. And it was the voice of the concerned rankand file who are responsible. Now let's see how many get banned for caring.

[quote] We have over 20,000 hours of video footage obtained from the Camera system that was installed at Bullet's property, that was put there to see if some verification could be obtained that Bigfoot were moving around his property, that video is currently under review, and if anything significant is found, it would be released to the public, like we have done before. Other projects have been completed or in the process of being completed, producing information that may aid in future research for everyone, not just the MABRC.

Nice example of spin, you throw Bullet out of the group, you dney him being allowed to do himself, and now you are going to keep use the evidence he essentially gave you and use it for yourselves? thats what it looks like.

Everyone tends to zoom in on a few bad things, and not look at all the good things going on within an organization. It's like the old saying, you can do a hundred things right, and know one will remember it, but do one thing wrong, and no one will ever forget that. ]

Are you kidding, who could know whats going on inside the organization when you seal the bunker doors after you look bad, through actions all your own.

People are claiming that statements were made in public and they have a right to question them. What they fail to realize, is that the statements they question belong to Ed Smith and Orig-6, and that is who they need to direct their questions and accusations to, as all the MABRC did was allow them to post a statement on the public forum side of the MABRC Forums. Ed Smith did not speak for the MABRC, and that is the bottom line.

No, the bottom line is that you let them have too much control, gave them a venue to say what they did, Vella's resignation as an example, and you, DO and others participated in the resulting war of words with the bff, including several accusation BY YOU after banning folks for asking questions. Suck it up and take responsibility.

Hopefully the MODs will let this post go through without any editing, because it all is written to resolve the questions posted here by others.

And it has failed to do so, badly. This last line of yours is the epitome of what is the problem. Paraphrasing: "This is what I say and noone has the right to question me and noone should be allowed to question this question because I said so. This kind of arrogance started the problem, and prepetuates it, and is what needs to be purged from teh MABRC to save it. Should the mods see fit to edit my response in any way, it's still on the blog. If you had answered the questions put to you in the beginning, you wouldn't be here now. That, this the bottom line.

[kitakaze]

Discussion of ex-MABRC member Bullet Maker/Doug Bilby's (who is a member of the JREF forum as "tornado") claim of hoaxing MABRC head Darkwing/Darren Lee (also a member of this forum as "Darkwing" and the rest of the MABRC conducting searches for Bigfoot on his property belong here in this moderated thread. A thread discussing it went to AAH because of some people making personal attacks, bickering, and numerous derails into the activities of people on various different forums.

The following are links to only the most relevant posts from the thread in AAH...

Bullet's claim of hoaxing in the comments section of the Tulsa World article on the MABRC:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4746648&postcount=86

Darkwing's response before confirmation of the authenticity of Bullet Maker actually writing the message:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4747940&postcount=98

Confirmation by direct email to WGBH (John Cartwright of the American Bigfoot Society and searchforbigfoot forums) from Bullet Maker:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4749537&postcount=128

Darkwing's response after confirmation:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4750358&postcount=139

The most important thing to bear in mind is the evidence of Bigfoot such as tracks, scat, encounters, sightings, etc claimed by the MABRC and the plausibility of Bullet Maker being able to be responsible for hoaxing it. Bullet Maker is quite old, overweight, and in very poor health. He claims assistance by brothers who have never been shown to exist in the four years that MABRC have been coming to Bullet Maker's property.

[burmballgeetar]

I don't know Doug Bilby or his health, age or family members. What I do know is that he has negated any legitimate bigfoot evidence that has ever come off of his property and he has sacrificed his reputation in the world of bigfoot with the comments he made recently after the article in the Tulsa World came out. In his actions I see, personally, a temper tantrum being thrown. What relevance is there to his property in this article? I hate to say it but it seems to me like he will say whatever needs to be said so that he can have all eyes on him. Shades of Biscardi if you ask me.

Shame on him and anyone who still believes his stories and wants to investigate his property. Edited for rule 1. Don't make suggestions, even in jest, that might recommend criminal behavior.

[kitakaze]

I don't know Doug Bilby or his health, age or family members. What I do know is that he has negated any legitimate bigfoot evidence that has ever come off of his property and he has sacrificed his reputation in the world of bigfoot with the comments he made recently after the article in the Tulsa World came out. In his actions I see, personally, a temper tantrum being thrown. What relevance is there to his property in this article? I hate to say it but it seems to me like he will say whatever needs to be said so that he can have all eyes on him. Shades of Biscardi if you ask me.

Shame on him and anyone who still believes his stories and wants to investigate his property. Edited for rule 1. Don't make suggestions, even in jest, that might recommend criminal behavior.

BBG, per my bolding that is the biggest problem that I think Darren and the MABRC face regarding Bullet's property and his claim of hoaxing everything. The idea is that Bullet's could not account for what he claims and that Darren will defend much of what your group has found there. Basically the idea being suggested is that Bullet is a pathological liar but a pathological liar who just happens to have Bigfoots running around on his property.

Seems like a difficult scenario to deal with to me.

[LuvGodzilla]

Kitakaze, am I correct in assuming from your post that you feel Bullet Maker (aka Tornado) was unable to hoax based on his health, age and size? And, what mabrc has so far presented from Bullet Makers property is their personal validation of Bigfoot activity at Bullet Makers? It's plausible that he was capable of hoaxing and he didn't have to act alone in doing so. It would be terrific if he would come here and discuss this like an adult. I'm curious about how he pulled it off and duped Darkwing and Driveroperator.

The brothers that Bullet Makers claims to have and has not been introduced to mabrc members or leaders, is that now a requirement in the world of Bigfoot, that all family members be introduced and involved in Bullet Makers interests and aquaintances?

I have to give Bullet Maker the benefit of doubt concerning the brothers claim. I bet it wouldn't be to difficult to check if other Bilby's live in the area or state.

In regard to Bullet Maker having some form of reputation that implies there ever was credibility to his claims and him as a person. From what is heavily covered on the internet, it doesn't appear that he was received in a positive light anywhere he went or posted with the exception of the mabrc and a few liberal pod cast radio shows.

What is evident are the hard feelings from the actual people involved. The actual people involved so far: Bullet Maker, Darkwing, Driveroperator and Telaynay's G'son. These are the only people who really know the background and truth to this matter.

The membership of mabrc unless closely involved in the specifics involving the characters named above, should try to remain unbiased and ask their own questions from all involved to get down to the truth; isn't that in the memberships best interest. Spin doctoring and taking sides without knowledge does not solve anything and just looks foolish.

The name of this thread is "The Wild Bunch" regarding the mabrc. The recent claims in the newspaper by DW Lee are something worth talking about in this thread. Will the claims made in that newspaper be posted somewhere where they can be seen or heard (the Bigfoot mimicing birds)? The track cast looks like a smudge pulled from the ground, I do not see toes or the shape of a large foot.

Bullet Maker if your out there reading this, why not come discuss this like an adult in a moderated thread where the MODs can keep things in check and we can hear your side of the story instead of others passing on the he said/he said commentary. If you did truly hoax and you admitted it openly, there is no harm in educating those whom would like to know how you did it and how you did it to so many people that came to visit your property.

[Telaynay's G'son]

BM/Tornado cannot come here and discuss these issues as he is currently banned.

According to him, the reason given by moderators was too many attempts at access from a variety of IP addresses.

BM has told me DO has/had his password and this may be a factor in the multiple IP addy sources.

[mikeyx]

BBG, per my bolding that is the biggest problem that I think Darren and the MABRC face regarding Bullet's property and his claim of hoaxing everything. The idea is that Bullet's could not account for what he claims and that Darren will defend much of what your group has found there. Basically the idea being suggested is that Bullet is a pathological liar but a pathological liar who just happens to have Bigfoots running around on his property.

Seems like a difficult scenario to deal with to me.

It boils down to either you were hoaxed for four years or you were in on it, neither looks good. Hoaxer or rube?

[Penamunde]

Shades of Biscardi if you ask me.

Shame on him and anyone who still believes his stories and wants to investigate his property.


I agree with you BBG, maybe we should add associates and defends to that list, it would be a travesty to allow more attention to this man after he has admitted to being a HOAXER and not once but TWICE.

Now were supposed to believe that there some kind of conspiracy to trip him up. Please tell me that’s not the case. LOL

And since were on the subject, BM said that his brother was Tornado and now he is Tornado? Again another untruth, How much more of this unbelievable drivel are we supposed to put up with, I mean really.

Have a good one.

[darkwing]

BM/Tornado cannot come here and discuss these issues as he is currently banned.

According to him, the reason given by moderators was too many attempts at access from a variety of IP addresses.

BM has told me DO has/had his password and this may be a factor in the multiple IP addy sources.

Once again, you level accusations out without any proof to back it up, heresay is all you have. :boggled:

So you are admitting that BM was Tornado and not his brother like he claimed? And the fact is, Bullet couldn't remember his password half the time on the MABRC Forum, I probably changed it over a hundred times for him whenhe would lock himself out.

[Telaynay's G'son]

Took a while to write this one....

From hours of being on the floor LMAO...

Seems the latest novelty from the Worthy Grand Potentate of MABRC is to award "medals" for whatever exploits he so deems appropriate. Noting he has the most but then again what else would one expect from Stilwell's finest.

Besides, with the current MABRC site populated with 99% cut-n-paste items scalped from other sources (sans proper recognition, of course) I suspect he had to come up with something to keep the pilgrims in line.

However, imagine the hilarious vision created from a bunch of "researchers" dressed in their stiff Banana Republic general uniforms tromping around the woods with all those medals clanking like a hammer mill.

Wonder if they'll be in full regalia at the Honobia Conference later this year?

[mikeyx]

Took a while to write this one....

From hours of being on the floor LMAO...

Seems the latest novelty from the Worthy Grand Potentate of MABRC is to award "medals" for whatever exploits he so deems appropriate. Noting he has the most but then again what else would one expect from Stilwell's finest.

Besides, with the current MABRC site populated with 99% cut-n-paste items scalped from other sources (sans proper recognition, of course) I suspect he had to come up with something to keep the pilgrims in line.

However, imagine the hilarious vision created from a bunch of "researchers" dressed in their stiff Banana Republic general uniforms tromping around the woods with all those medals clanking like a hammer mill.

Wonder if they'll be in full regalia at the Honobia Conference later this year?

while I have no doubt you've an agenda here, they have absolutely dont themselves no favors of joke. It's either comical or sad, not sure which.

[desertgal]

Besides, with the current MABRC site populated with 99% cut-n-paste items scalped from other sources (sans proper recognition, of course)

The MABRC doesn't require author information and links to the original source? That is not only a copyright violation, but it's also flat wrong. Authors deserve credit for their work, period. If a site isn't going to require proper credit/source information, then they shouldn't allow copy/paste articles at all.

The owner should hope no one author catches on-they don't hesitate to spread the word. I doubt he wants to answer for a bunch of copyright violations.

[Telaynay's G'son]

From the Alabama BF site...

OklahomaSquatch wrote:

Following a recent newspaper article here in Tulsa about the MABRC, "Bulletmaker" the owner of the property where they do their research, posted this on the Tulsa World website:


"bullet maker, Chelsea (5/24/2009 4:46:10 AM)
OK, OK, enough is enough. I`m the one whose property this mabrc, has been bigfoot hunting on up here in Chelse. From the git-go, me and some of my friends, have been hoaxing these group of hunters from the day we first meet them, by faking the foot tracks, and hollering in the woods at night, to scare them. (course we hid behind trees, in case they went to shooting in the dark. We had alot of fun with these guys, watching them as they ran to their trucks to hide when we went to screaming and beating on trees. But now the joke has gotten out of hand, and these Idiots, have taken it to far by putting it in the paper. So all you good people of Tuls, this is the true story, THERE ARE NO BIGFOOTS OUT HERE AND NEVER HAVE.
The owner."

And in case anybody is wondering, he did in fact confirm that it was really him that posted this. Although he did say it was supposedly just the MABRC he has hoaxed. Too bad he said "THERE ARE NO BIGFOOTS OUT HERE AND NEVER HAVE."

In the Bigfoot community, this is the equivalent to a suicide bomber.




These (MABRC) guys are still quoting/referencing the happenings they allegedly encountered on BM's property as late as this week on their show without (of course) actually referencing BM or his place in particular. Looks like the participants must feel they weren't actually hoaxed?

[darkwing]

The MABRC doesn't require author information and links to the original source? That is not only a copyright violation, but it's also flat wrong. Authors deserve credit for their work, period. If a site isn't going to require proper credit/source information, then they shouldn't allow copy/paste articles at all.

The owner should hope no one author catches on-they don't hesitate to spread the word. I doubt he wants to answer for a bunch of copyright violations.

Once again, TGS perverts the truth, proper credit is given when applicable, and it makes no sense that he brings accusations about a forum, that he can't even access. I would hope that in the future, he could provide proof to his accusations instead of making wild remarks, and that members here would demand he show such proof. It's demanded of others when claims are made, why isn't he being demanded to show his proof.

[mikeyx]

The MABRC doesn't require author information and links to the original source? That is not only a copyright violation, but it's also flat wrong. Authors deserve credit for their work, period. If a site isn't going to require proper credit/source information, then they shouldn't allow copy/paste articles at all.

The owner should hope no one author catches on-they don't hesitate to spread the word. I doubt he wants to answer for a bunch of copyright violations.


Linking to something is one thing, they copy and paste entire pieces, sometimes giving credit, often not, and the Darren Lee hides behind fair use.

[darkwing]

What is really funny, is that TGS has made a lot of claims over the last few months about the MABRC imploding, yet we are still out in the woods looking for evidence, we still have a major conference coming up, and we are still acquiring new members at a steady rate. All his claims have turned out to be false, and yet he is still allowed to toss out accusations and statements with reckless abandon and no one has called him to task on this. :boggled: Everyone here wants to focus on the MABRC, but what about the person making the claims, shouldn't he be focused on too?

Truth of the matter is, he was denied access several years ago to MABRC research areas, and has been pissed off ever since.

[desertgal]

Once again, TGS perverts the truth, proper credit is given when applicable, and it makes no sense that he brings accusations about a forum, that he can't even access. I would hope that in the future, he could provide proof to his accusations instead of making wild remarks, and that members here would demand he show such proof. It's demanded of others when claims are made, why isn't he being demanded to show his proof.

Okay, well, it's your website. Under fair use, copying and pasting without attribution isn't strictly illegal, depending on the circumstances, but it's definitely unethical to replicate a known author's material without giving credit. If your members are not doing that, fine. If they are, you might want to rethink your posting guidelines.

[mikeyx]

Okay, well, it's your website. Under fair use, copying and pasting without attribution isn't strictly illegal, depending on the circumstances, but it's definitely unethical to replicate a known author's material without giving credit. If your members are not doing that, fine. If they are, you might want to rethink your posting guidelines.

The key word being ETHICS: their whole group's ethics are, to be kind, dubious.

[Telaynay's G'son]

What is really funny, is that TGS has made a lot of claims over the last few months about the MABRC imploding, yet we are still out in the woods looking for evidence, we still have a major conference coming up, and we are still acquiring new members at a steady rate. All his claims have turned out to be false, and yet he is still allowed to toss out accusations and statements with reckless abandon and no one has called him to task on this. :boggled: Everyone here wants to focus on the MABRC, but what about the person making the claims, shouldn't he be focused on too?

Truth of the matter is, he was denied access several years ago to MABRC research areas, and has been pissed off ever since.


The "truth" of the matter is there is no evidence that I have ever sought access to any MABRC "research" areas. The fact is you solicited my association but were declined once I/we did some due diligence on your background and reputation in your local community. I do not engage in the sort of foolishness you clowns pursue nor wish to be associated in any form whatsoever with a class of individuals such as yourself. IMHO, the people associated with MABRC and like "organizations" are by and large a collection of fools, delusional losers or corrupt in character.

The type of "evidence" collected by your group is GIGO as evidenced by your latest so-called expedition. Not to mention, you were hoaxed to the extent it was laughable and never caught on to the situation until after the fact. That appears to speak volumes for your competence and integrity (the lack thereof) with basic scientific protocol.

[darkwing]

The "truth" of the matter is there is no evidence that I have ever sought access to any MABRC "research" areas. The fact is you solicited my association but were declined once I/we did some due diligence on your background and reputation in your local community. I do not engage in the sort of foolishness you clowns pursue nor wish to be associated in any form whatsoever with a class of individuals such as yourself. IMHO, the people associated with MABRC and like "organizations" are by and large a collection of fools, delusional losers or corrupt in character.

The type of "evidence" collected by your group is GIGO as evidenced by your latest so-called expedition. Not to mention, you were hoaxed to the extent it was laughable and never caught on to the situation until after the fact. That appears to speak volumes for your competence and integrity (the lack thereof) with basic scientific protocol.

Look at the history of my posts, and the history of yours, it's obvious what your agenda is. I'm trying to research and share information, and all you want to do is conduct a propaganda blitz against me and the MABRC to put us in a bad light. All anyone has to do is visit the link to your blog to see what kind of person you really are.

Your integrity lacks just as much.

[Telaynay's G'son]

Look at the history of my posts, and the history of yours, it's obvious what your agenda is. I'm trying to research and share information, (is that why your site went underground?) and all you want to do is conduct a propaganda blitz against me and the MABRC to put us in a bad light. (If I had said anything untrue rest assured you'd have called me to task before nor...no sir, it's the truth that stings you so deep and is the catalyst for the vitriolic reactions of yourself, DO and company) All anyone has to do is visit the link to your blog to see what kind of person you really are.

Your integrity lacks just as much. (Are you saying it's as bad as yours?)

Darren...when you've digging a pit of your own making...stop digging.

[Telaynay's G'son]

http://okbfbs.blogspot.com/

[Telaynay's G'son]

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Kiamichi_Giants/index.php?showtopic=1727

I spoke with the "landowner" and his better-half about this incident.

Unfortunately, it appears there are some issues with the "facts" in this case.

For starters, both called total BS on the OP and it's premise thereof.

Plus, the landowner's wife catagorically stated that she has never been on their 80 acre parcel after dark as the OP author has implied.

IMHO, another case of outright lying and/or delusions of grandeur.

[Drewbot]

Randy Harrington of MABRC- (DRIVEROPERATOR) is going to be on a radio show Jan. 2nd

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/squatchdetective/2011/01/03/squatchdetective-radio

I wonder if they will ask him about the Bigfeet stealing his propane tanks out of the back of his Pickup truck, while he was paralyzed in the front seat of the truck.

[parnassus]

From the MABRC site; I have heard this guy talk before but as of last fall he seems to have taken things to a WNL:

Nelson, a retired Navy cryptolinguist, introduced the Sasquatch Phonetic Alphabet formally called the Unclassified Hominid Phonetic Alphabet. He said he’s not a Bigfoot hunter, but has been asked to go on expeditions, and believes there is a Bigfoot language.

As Nelson played audio recordings of alleged Bigfoot hollers from the northern California area, Ingram inched up closer and closer to the front of the pavilion by changing seats so he could hear the sounds. Ingram said the recordings sounded like a howl. Nelson mimicked the Bigfoot sounds and at times translated the sounds into what English words he thinks they are. He said the attempt to spell out words in English is of little value to a language researcher, “since English is notoriously non-phonetic and is subject to widely-varied local dialects.”

“To me, it’s proof that Bigfoot exists. I’ve heard him speak his own language and you have too,” Nelson said. “The creatures on these tapes have and use language (by the human definition). That alone does not make them human, but it separates them from the humans.” [sic; I think that last word was supposed to be "apes" not "humans."]
http://www.mid-americabigfoot.com/index.php?start=10

I'm hoping that next year Bobo will break Bigfoot's woodknocking "Morse" code. These are exciting times.

[William Parcher]

MABRC has a Bigfoot foot.

Look here (http://www.mid-americabigfoot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4094) (MABRC)

And here (http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/7459-any-update-on-the-mabrc-foot/) (BFF)

The landowner said that she had seen the foot laying near a rock pile for about a week before she finally stopped and recovered it. At first she thought it was maybe a paw of an animal until she got close to it. She contacted the authorities, but no one would come to check it out. She posted some pictures of it on her Facebook page to see what others thought, and eventually someone suggested she go and contact some Bigfoot researchers.

Under the examination, the skin covering was very brittle, but retained a leathery type feel to it. There was one toenail left embedded on top of one of the toes, with indentions left on the other toes. On the big toe, you could still see dermal ridges and despite attempts to get a camera close-up, the dermals would not appear in the close-ups with the cameras used during that visit.

A sample was taken for further testing, and photos with a ruler took place for documentation.

The next day, pictures were e-mailed to Dr. Meldrum, and his questions were answered the best that could be done. He asked if possible to remove a bone for analysis, and when informed that a X-Ray was going to be done, he said he would like to see that when done. He also said that the presence of dermal ridges indicated it was not a Bear paw.

[Deacondark]

MABRC has a Bigfoot foot.

Look here (http://www.mid-americabigfoot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4094) (MABRC)

And here (http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/7459-any-update-on-the-mabrc-foot/) (BFF)


I read through, and, oddly enough, they have one of the rare "boneless Bigfoot foots"

Apparently the foot contains no bones. But it does have an intact toenail.

[parnassus]

Did they ever take it to the state wildlife people? Duh?

[Deacondark]

Tried to register at the MABRC, to view the "foot" pictures. THey have quite a process, and one of the questions is whether you are a member of the JREF. Long story short, I don't get to see the pics. I was interested, because it's being described as boneless, with some type of strings attached. I'm wondering if it might be some sort of Native American medicine bag. One poster actually says it looks like a glove, and not a foot. I might email Darkwing, and promise not to be too harsh, and keep what I see to myself. I am really interested in seeing this thing.

[William Parcher]

From MABRC...

The clawlike toe nail in my opinion, could show the difference in a BF and a human. If the foot is proven to be BF, it may be normal for the nails to taper and curve down. It could explain details from witness reports of dogmen and some tracks that left a hint of a claw tip in front of a humanlike toe print. ???


The foot has now been turned over to the Department of Anthropology at the University of ********. They have concluded the foot could be as old as 6,000 years old and they have not seen a foot that size. They have concluded it's not a bear paw, and it's not likely a human foot. They also speculated that it could possibly be a youngster from the texture of the skin. We will still be kept in the loop on what they uncover, they have my contact information for when Biggjimm finishes his experiments with his sample, they would like a copy of the report. Once again, this is what I was told about it. It remains to be seen what their further testing will reveal.

I don't know why the university is censored.

[The Shrike]

Well it's got the right number of asterisks to be the Sooners, and they've got a first-rate museum of natural history at the University of Oklahoma. As for the rest of the information, it just sounds like classic bigfooter bs.

Seriously, someone finds a 6000 year old foot just lying around somewhere? Now the "nail" looks like a"claw?"

This Biggjimm fella is the one who thinks that bigfoots are alive and well in the Oklahoma City Metro, btw.

[Drewbot]

8 Letters? Oklahoma? Michigan? Illinois? Arkansas? Maryland? Virginia?

[William Parcher]

Originally they were saying that the one remaining nail wasn't like a claw... more like a human toenail. Now it's like a claw.

It's almost certainly not from a great ape (including human). Too bad we can't see any good photos. We could probably ID it or short list some candidates.

If it seems primate-like it could be a foreign object from Africa (think baboon) or Asia.

[William Parcher]

Baboon foot example...

[parnassus]

From MABRC...






I don't know why the university is censored.

Perhaps I am completely cynical but this "report" sounds completely bogus.
Not to mention that the "nail" seems to actually be a claw.
And what happened to the DNA?

Heres a scenario for what has happened: this thing was identified as bear and the embarassed finders are now engaged in a CYA operation. So here is their story: "it's too old to get usable DNA and gee we don't have it any more, we gave it to science but we can't tell you where because they don't want to be associated with Bigfoot, yadda yadda. The report can't be published yet because....blah blah NDA blah blah peer review blah blah next spring blah blah....unknown primate." A year or so down the road the finder will report that he called the university and "they can't find the specimen."

[Deacondark]

Perhaps I am completely cynical but this "report" sounds completely bogus.
Not to mention that the "nail" seems to actually be a claw.
And what happened to the DNA?

Heres a scenario for what has happened: this thing was identified as bear and the embarassed finders are now engaged in a CYA operation. So here is their story: "it's too old to get usable DNA and gee we don't have it any more, we gave it to science but we can't tell you where because they don't want to be associated with Bigfoot, yadda yadda. The report can't be published yet because....blah blah NDA blah blah peer review blah blah next spring blah blah....unknown primate." A year or so down the road the finder will report that he called the university and "they can't find the specimen."


Oh no, not another "Gub'ment coverup"!!

[Deacondark]

Got to see the pictures, and it looks like, well, a foot. Just from the ball forward, five human looking toes. One toenail, on what appears to be the "ring" toe. The toenail comes to a pretty sharp point. Looks really old. The "laces" that people are talking about look more like loose sinew to me. Definitely interesting.

[Deacondark]

Actually, on closer examination, the sinew does look like it's strung through the foot, across the ball part, which would be the opening. I'm guessing it's a ancient Native American artifact, some sort of bag. It appears to be really, really old.

[Drewbot]

Entire Bigfoots decompose in days, yet we are to believe that a 6000 year old Bigfoot foot just popped up, flesh and all in Oklahoma?

[LTC8K6]

It's not another bear foot, is it?

[parnassus]

8 Letters? Oklahoma? Michigan? Illinois? Arkansas? Maryland? Virginia?
"bovine excrement?"

[LTC8K6]

http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2007/022007/02132007/footpics/index_html?qstart=1

Just for reference...

[Drewbot]

Clearly a bear.
Is that the one from last year? or is that a link from the MABRC foot?

[LTC8K6]

Clearly a bear.
Is that the one from last year? or is that a link from the MABRC foot?

That's the earlier one.

[Correa Neto]

Folks, that's the same group of people which was duped earlier by Bulletmaker's tales and images. Given the whole tale, I say its even possible that some of them had more... uhm... Active role.

Anyone will really be surprised if this becomes another Bulletmaker-like fiasco?

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Some back-of-the-envelope calculations here on the number of bigfeets to expect on this 80 acre parcel:


There are about 6,000 bigfeets according to the top bigfeets science. There are 1,894 million acres of land in the lower '48. Almost 90% of that is in Grassland, cropland, and Forest Service land.

But let's just say 50% of it has bigfeets here and about. It's way more than that if we buy into all these regional organizations. If we put together two thousand of these 80-acre parcels, we should expect to find one bigfoot. As social animals, we actually need about four thousand of such parcels to expect finding two.

Even reducing it to something like 10% of the land having bigfeets about, then we need about four hundred of such parcels to find just one bigfoot and eight hundred of such parcels to find a pair of them.

It's pretty clear this 80-acre parcel has the highest concentration of bigfeets in the entire world, and it is an urgent matter to preserve this incredibly important habitat for one of the most precious animals in existence.

[Drewbot]

ABP, you are on the right track with this. However, something the size of a bigfoot would need several square miles of turf, and a breeding population would need a thousand square miles. (cougars need 750) So, how many parcels of 1000 sq. miles of decently continuous wilderness are available? I think 80 acres is a silly-sized parcel to imagine a 1000 lb primate existing.

[Deacondark]

It's not another bear foot, is it?


As much as I hate to say this, I don't think it is. Imagine a foot, cut off about 3 inches behind where the toes meet the foot, and that's what you have. The toenail attaches like a humans would, but then becomes more claw like on the end. It's quite a long toenail too. It appears to have a piece of sinew woven through at the top, open part (where it was cut off) It's boneless. It's definitely interesting to see. I just registered over there, and it took them a couple of days to approve me, but they did. I even used the same name I do here, and was honest on the "application form" about being a member of JREF. I was honestly shocked when they approved me to see the pictures.

[William Parcher]

It looks like the BFF has removed their thread on the MABRC foot.

[LTC8K6]

This bigfoot nail looks like part of a rawhide dog chew.

http://img4.mediafire.com/36e662707d734b03b9d17f40395d71d96g.jpg

I believe it's the one referred to here:

http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2011/08/02/latest-news-from-the-bigfoot-world-august-2-2011/

The Bigfoot toenail in the Ketchum Project is from Larry Jenkins in northwest Arizona. This toenail, submitted to the Ketchum DNA project, was found by Jenkins at his cabin high up in the Arizona mountains near the Grand Canyon.

There do appear to be some Bigfoots in the area.

Jenkins is a Vietnam vet who lives with his family most of time, but also likes to go up to his cabin in this extremely remote area to shoot guns and get away from it all. One of my sources has been to this site and has seen a Bigfoot footprint in a streambed.

The toenail does not appear to be human. It is much too large, too thick, and has a sort of yellowish-black color to it that human nails do not have. Albert Ostman noted long ago that Bigfoots have blackish nails. The badly decomposed dead Bigfoot found by two Indian girls in Happy Camp, California, in 1965, also had black nails. This is why John Green felt it was a real Bigfoot, due to its consistency with Ostman’s tale.

[parnassus]

Clearly a bear.
Is that the one from last year? or is that a link from the MABRC foot?

looks to me like the skin that covered the skinned bear foot shown in previous images. It looks very old. Maybe a hundred years. Depends on how it was tanned and treated/cared for. It doesn't have toenails. It had claws and all but one have been removed. It's wide because it's collapsed flat. Fill it up with bones and tissue and its the width of a bear foot.

IMO.

[RioBravo]

Before the thread was shut down on the BFF, someone with access to the MABRC forums reported that testing showed the recovered foot was 6,000 years old, was not a bear paw, or a human foot.

As far as I know, no images of it exist outside the MABRC forums.

[Skeptical Greg]

....testing showed the recovered foot was 6,000 years old, was not a bear paw, or a human foot. And why should we give that ansy consideration at all ?

[RioBravo]

And why should we give that ansy consideration at all ?

Whoops, I need to read more carefully. This has already been discussed in post #100 within this thread.

[William Parcher]

Before the thread was shut down on the BFF, someone with access to the MABRC forums reported that testing showed the recovered foot was 6,000 years old, was not a bear paw, or a human foot.

As far as I know, no images of it exist outside the MABRC forums.

That thread hasn't just been shut down (locked) at the BFF, it's been removed.

The person talking about the 6,000 year old claim is "Darkwing" the head honcho who runs the MABRC.

The foot has now been turned over to the Department of Anthropology at the University of ********. They have concluded the foot could be as old as 6,000 years old and they have not seen a foot that size. They have concluded it's not a bear paw, and it's not likely a human foot. They also speculated that it could possibly be a youngster from the texture of the skin. We will still be kept in the loop on what they uncover, they have my contact information for when Biggjimm finishes his experiments with his sample, they would like a copy of the report. Once again, this is what I was told about it. It remains to be seen what their further testing will reveal.


I think that DW didn't speak directly to the university, but is instead relaying info from some other MABRC Bigfooter. Nowhere does it say that any "testing" was done (RioBravo said that) to determine age or anything else. Don't assume that the university did any scientific tests. The figure of 6,000 years may only be related to tribal history in the area (if it's a N/A artifact), or was just a hip-shot comment, or was never even said at all.

There is a comment on MABRC saying that the "foot" was found sitting on top of a rock pile.

Why the hell would the BFF completely remove the thread?

[AlaskaBushPilot]

It's been a while since I skinned a bear, but one impression really stands out about a skinned carcass, including the hands and feet: they look remarkably like a human.

On a paw you've come down the inside of the "arm" and cut through the middle of that thick, spongy pad, peeling it back to expose the toes, then working around the toes in order to get as close as you can to where the claws eminate from. Then you snip the claws at the base so that they stay on the hide.

Try doing this while the bear's partner is sitting on the bank above you watching through the night. You shine your headlamp over there and see those red eyes in the darkness moving around. Then you steel your mind by using these brave 'footers as your example - in their hotel beds, facing eggs bennedict and hot coffee on a white tablecloth in the morning. It gives you the strength to go on.

[LTC8K6]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/science/10shoe.html