World Jewish population growth inconsistancies

[Thunder]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/worldpop.html

Between the years 1900 and 1945, there was a steady growth for the world's Jewish community. But after WW2, Jewish population growth suddenly hit the brakes. This is not just for European Jews...but for all Jews worldwide.

According to the Jewish Virtual Library, the world's Jewish population went from 10,600,000 in 1900 to 16,728,000 in 1939. That's a growth of 58% in 39 years. Yet from 1945 to 2000, the world Jewish population went from 11,500,000 to 13,300,000....which is 16% in 55 years.

Is there any explanation for this dramatic drop in Jewish population growth? I can sorta understand European Jews not increasing much, due to trauma, break up and loss of families, and plain old shock...but what about the Jews of the USA, Middle East, South America, and Asia?

Anyone?

[Thunder]

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm

This website explains some of it..but not all.

[hgc]

The 2nd half of the 20th Century saw widespread assimilation of Jews into wider society, thus inter-marriage and dilution. Affluence means lower reproductive rate.

[Thunder]

The 2nd half of the 20th Century saw widespread assimilation of Jews into wider society, thus inter-marriage and dilution. Affluence means lower reproductive rate.

I still find it shocking to see the growth rate of Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews also dropped soo very significantly.

Or am I wrong and has their population increased at a normal rate...thereby making them a large and larger percentage of the world's Jews??

By the way, this topic came up because I am debating with a writer of a Holocaust Denier book. He argues that the incredible drop in Jewish pop. growth after WW2 is impossible and is evidence of....some kind of population data fraud conspiracy.

[Simon39759]

Another thing to keep in mind is that Judaism is a religion. It seems like a no brainer, of course, but it means that the rise of atheism is going to affect the rate of Judaism quite a bit.
Atheism has doubled in the US over the last 20 years. That means that the rate of of growth of an religion has been divided by half. Maybe more as I suspect Judaism to be more sensitive than other religions to (de)conversion.
Furthermore, anti-Semitism has lost a lot of ground since WWII. From a practical point of view, that means that Jews are more welcome among non-Jews and, hence, are more likely to marry outside of Judaism.

[paximperium]

Another thing to keep in mind is that Judaism is a religion. It seems like a no brainer, of course, but it means that the rise of atheism is going to affect the rate of Judaism quite a bit.
Atheism has doubled in the US over the last 20 years. That means that the rate of of growth of an religion has been divided by half. Maybe more as I suspect Judaism to be more sensitive than other religions to (de)conversion.
Furthermore, anti-Semitism has lost a lot of ground since WWII. From a practical point of view, that means that Jews are more welcome among non-Jews and, hence, are more likely to marry outside of Judaism.
I disagree. Many atheistic Jews continue to self-identify as Jews. Judaism is as much a cultural legacy as a religion but I agree that the inter-marriage with non-Jews is likely playing a role.

[wollery]

What Pax said.

My family haven't been religious for three generations, but we still identify as Jewish (with the possible exception of my sister). For most Jews it's as much a racial identity as being Black or Chinese.

[Thunder]

I disagree. Many atheistic Jews continue to self-identify as Jews. Judaism is as much a cultural legacy as a religion but I agree that the inter-marriage with non-Jews is likely playing a role.

Though, if we count anyone who has a Jewish mother as a Jew, regadlesss of their religious practise and membership, the number of Jews in the world may be closer to the 18 million number.

I think one main way of calculating national Jewish populations is based on synagogue memberships. If 1/3 of all Jews are not members of a synagogue, then thats a big number.

[wollery]

Though, if we count anyone who has a Jewish mother as a Jew, regadlesss of their religious practise and membership, the number of Jews in the world may be closer to the 18 million number.

I think one main way of calculating national Jewish populations is based on synagogue memberships. If 1/3 of all Jews are not members of a synagogue, then thats a big number.Yes, it is. So?

[Simon39759]

I disagree. Many atheistic Jews continue to self-identify as Jews. Judaism is as much a cultural legacy as a religion but I agree that the inter-marriage with non-Jews is likely playing a role.

But self-identifying as a Jew (ethnically) is not enough to be counted by the statistics.
You actually have to tick the little box written 'Judaism' rather than the one labelled 'Atheist/Agnostic/Non-religious'.

[wollery]

But self-identifying as a Jew (ethnically) is not enough to be counted by the statistics.
You actually have to tick the little box written 'Judaism' rather than the one labelled 'Atheist/Agnostic/Non-religious'.Many forms include a space for "ethnicity" rather than religion, which will be filled by many non-religious Jews as "Jewish".

[NobbyNobbs]

I could see one plausible excplanation in the decade or two following WWII that Jews might be hesitant to self-identify as such, considering what just happened to 6 million others.

[Simon39759]

Many forms include a space for "ethnicity" rather than religion, which will be filled by many non-religious Jews as "Jewish".

If you say so. I only filled up a few such forms in the US but I don't remember a space for Jewish ethnicity. Afro-Americans, Hispanic, Native-Americans/Polynesians... but I don't remember a Jewish one. But then, I was not looking...

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

[url]but what about the Jews of the USA

Didn't exist in great numbers until after WWII.

Middle East

Also victims of the holocaust. When Hitler began his purge of Jews in Europe he urged the middle east to do the same with their own Jewish population.

South America

Never existed in large numbers.

Asia

Never existed in large numbers.

Anyone?

I suspect it's a simple in values, coupled with the fact that many of the survivors of the Holocaust were younger and not in child-rearing age. Could also be that a large number of survivors simply never wanted kids due to the trauma.

[wollery]

If you say so. I only filled up a few such forms in the US but I don't remember a space for Jewish ethnicity. Afro-Americans, Hispanic, Native-Americans/Polynesians... but I don't remember a Jewish one. But then, I was not looking...There isn't usually, but there's always a space for "other" with a line to write in what that "other" might be.

[Thunder]

Didn't exist in great numbers until after WWII.


there were already 5 million Jews in the USA before WW2 began.

[Jeff Corey]

Though, if we count anyone who has a Jewish mother as a Jew, regadlesss of their religious practise and membership, the number of Jews in the world may be closer to the 18 million number.

I think one main way of calculating national Jewish populations is based on synagogue memberships. If 1/3 of all Jews are not members of a synagogue, then thats a big number.

I may be wrong, but I have read that Reformed Judaism will count you as a Jew if you have one parent who is a Jew and you practice Judaism.

[Thunder]

I may be wrong, but I have read that Reformed Judaism will count you as a Jew if you have one parent who is a Jew and you practice Judaism.

It is clear that during the time of the Bible, Jewishness was determined by one's father.

Now, we go by the mother's side.

How many Jews would there be in the world if we went by the father's side instead..of if we followed an either/or rule?

[Improbable Joe]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/worldpop.html

Between the years 1900 and 1945, there was a steady growth for the world's Jewish community. But after WW2, Jewish population growth suddenly hit the brakes. This is not just for European Jews...but for all Jews worldwide.
Anyone?
Wow, I can't imagine why...


WTF is wrong with you?

[Improbable Joe]

I disagree. Many atheistic Jews continue to self-identify as Jews. Judaism is as much a cultural legacy as a religion but I agree that the inter-marriage with non-Jews is likely playing a role.

That's true of the children of interfaith marriages as well, even if neither parent is especially religious.

[Merko]

I recall a discussion at work between two 'Jewish' colleagues, and iirc neither of them were 'officially' Jewish, because they didn't fulfil enough criteria. Neither of them were religious, but apparently that was not the issue. Anyway, it seems extremely unlikely to me that non-religious Jews would keep marrying other Jews for more than a couple of generations. Certainly none of the (non-religious) Jews I know who have married have done so.

[Improbable Joe]

I recall a discussion at work between two 'Jewish' colleagues, and iirc neither of them were 'officially' Jewish, because they didn't fulfil enough criteria. Neither of them were religious, but apparently that was not the issue. Anyway, it seems extremely unlikely to me that non-religious Jews would keep marrying other Jews for more than a couple of generations. Certainly none of the (non-religious) Jews I know who have married have done so.

If that is true NOW, imagine how it was right after WWII and the Holocaust... do you think people were bragging about how Jewish they were from 1945-1955?