[Closed]Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center

[T.A.M.]

Yah kind of like termites...but more annoying.

TAM:)

[Sunstealer]

I am not going to disappear down the rabbit hole of ever increasing nitpicking and minutae that truthers pride themselves in. The SEM photo is there to show the structure and the EDS confirms it - or if you will the EDS data shows it's a nigh on match as good as you'll get and the photo confirms the EDS data.

If people don't think that Kaolin can have a particle size the same as that seen in Jones' paper then they need to read this.

Product Description

Capim™ DG is a high brightness coating pigment naturally engineered to produce exceptional coated paper and board quality. Its high brightness and narrow particle size distribution produce optimum brightness and opacity whilst providing excellent print and sheet gloss in most applications.

Application

The excellent rheology of Capim™ DG allows for high solids in high speed applications with improved runnability.

Shipping

Capim™ DG is available in slurry and granulate forms. For more information regarding shipping or other product information please contact us.

Key Typical Properties
Property Typical Value

Brightness, ISO 89.0
Particle Size (% < 2 µ) 92
Moisture (spray dry) % 18.0


http://www.imerys-paper.com/products/kaolin/capim-dg.html

And no I'm not going to find out if paint in 1971 or 1671 used that particular size or any other nonsense.

You have to look at the data as a whole, not just pick at the edges. Look at the EDS data too. Compare it with all of the red layer EDS spectra in Jones' paper. See how there is evidence for Kaolinite, but also how it also shows the possibility that some of the samples were contaminated with gypsum just like Jones et al suggest.

[parky76]

Old Truthers only fade away. They will always be there and ready to come out of the woodwork at any time as you say.

kinda like termites. Truther sleeper-cell termites. ready to awaken, pounce, and scurry away as soon as the exterminator arrives.

:D

[The Platypus]

Again, you are seriously confused about the basic scientific process. The scientists who reviewed the paper by Harrit el al. and the editor who selected them certainly are in the "truther community," and did come to same conclusions on the data. Otherwise, they would have not published the paper. That is how peer review works.



So peer review just means reviewed by other people that already have the same opinion as you and are in the "same opinion" club? It's as easy as that? So if i love chocolate and think it's the best food on earth, and some other chocolate lovers agree with me, then that's valid peer review and proves chocolate is the best food on earth despite those that don't agree?

Silly me, i always thought it was more involved than that. I always thought it meant reviews by other scientific experts in the relevant fields to double check it all and see if it stands up. For example other chemists would review a chemistry paper.

Gee who knew it was that simple...

[T.A.M.]

So peer review just means reviewed by other people that already have the same opinion as you and are in the "same opinion" club? It's as easy as that? So if i love chocolate and think it's the best food on earth, and some other chocolate lovers agree with me, then that's valid peer review and proves chocolate is the best food on earth despite those that don't agree?

Silly me, i always thought it was more involved than that. I always thought it meant reviews by other scientific experts in the relevant fields to double check it all and see if it stands up. For example other chemists would review a chemistry paper.

Gee who knew it was that simple...

Well given the journal that Jones et al published in, don't be surprised if some of the "peers" who reviewed it were English Literature PhDs. See the thread on Bentham here....

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=110489

Gets interesting around page 7 or 8

TAM:)

[Sunstealer]

Would you expect the material to have a very energetic reaction when ignited if it WAS kaolin ? If not then it can't be kaolin surely ?No idea. And I also couldn't careless to find out. Why? you ask. Well because they EDS data shows one hell of a correlation between the two even to the extent of showing that there is gypsum in the spectra. Why bother with the nonsense when there is HARD, SOLID data being presented by me and Jones.

Custard powder undergoes an energetic reaction when ignited - do you want SEM and EDS data for that aswell? :p

Argue for or against the data please not ifs and whats.

[bill smith]

I am not going to disappear down the rabbit hole of ever increasing nitpicking and minutae that truthers pride themselves in. The SEM photo is there to show the structure and the EDS confirms it - or if you will the EDS data shows it's a nigh on match as good as you'll get and the photo confirms the EDS data.

If people don't think that Kaolin can have a particle size the same as that seen in Jones' paper then they need to read this.

Product Description

Capim™ DG is a high brightness coating pigment naturally engineered to produce exceptional coated paper and board quality. Its high brightness and narrow particle size distribution produce optimum brightness and opacity whilst providing excellent print and sheet gloss in most applications.

Application

The excellent rheology of Capim™ DG allows for high solids in high speed applications with improved runnability.

Shipping

Capim™ DG is available in slurry and granulate forms. For more information regarding shipping or other product information please contact us.

Key Typical Properties
Property Typical Value

Brightness, ISO 89.0
Particle Size (% < 2 µ) 92
Moisture (spray dry) % 18.0


http://www.imerys-paper.com/products/kaolin/capim-dg.html

And no I'm not going to find out if paint in 1971 or 1671 used that particular size or any other nonsense.

You have to look at the data as a whole, not just pick at the edges. Look at the EDS data too. Compare it with all of the red layer EDS spectra in Jones' paper. See how there is evidence for Kaolinite, but also how it also shows the possibility that some of the samples were contaminated with gypsum just like Jones et al suggest.

I think it's fair to say that nano technology did not exist in 1971 . So the paint that was used was not a nano product. The substance that professor Jones nd his team of eight scientists have just brought to light IS a nano compound and is very likely to be thermite as he claims. Their conclusions are being confirmed by other scientists reproducing their results sucessfully.

[Pardalis]

So peer review just means reviewed by other people that already have the same opinion as you and are in the "same opinion" club? It's as easy as that? So if i love chocolate and think it's the best food on earth, and some other chocolate lovers agree with me, then that's valid peer review and proves chocolate is the best food on earth despite those that don't agree?

Silly me, i always thought it was more involved than that. I always thought it meant reviews by other scientific experts in the relevant fields to double check it all and see if it stands up. For example other chemists would review a chemistry paper.

Gee who knew it was that simple...

You nailed it.

[ozeco41]

So peer review just means reviewed by other people that already have the same opinion as you and are in the "same opinion" club? It's as easy as that? So if i love chocolate and think it's the best food on earth, and some other chocolate lovers agree with me, then that's valid peer review and proves chocolate is the best food on earth despite those that don't agree?

Silly me, i always thought it was more involved than that. I always thought it meant reviews by other scientific experts in the relevant fields to double check it all and see if it stands up. For example other chemists would review a chemistry paper.

Gee who knew it was that simple...
Gee - is that how it works.

I thought the peers would include chocolate haters who would try to find holes in your arguments for chocolate? :D :D

..seems I must have misunderstood. :blush: :blush:

[bofors]

No idea. And I also couldn't careless to find out. Why you ask? Well because they EDS data shows one hell of a correlation between the two even to the extent of showing that there is gypsum in the spectra. Why bother with the nonsense when there is HARD, SOLID data being presented by me and Jones.

Custard powder undergoes an energetic reaction when ignited - do you want SEM and EDS data for that aswell? :p

Argue for or against the data please not ifs and whats.

You do not care if your Kaolinite / Tnemec (or whatever) hypothesis is true? Is that what you are saying?

If not who is going to produce some Kaolinite / Tnemec (or whatever) "red chips" and perform the DSC experiments on them required? Popular Mechanics?

[Sunstealer]

I think it's fair to say that nano technology did not exist in 1971 . So the paint that was used was not a nano product. The substance that professor Jones nd his team of eight scientists have just brought to light IS a nano compound and is very likely to be thermite as he claims. Their conclusions are being confirmed by other scientists reproducing their resuts sucessfully.Nano - really - Bill you don't even know what nano means with regard to technology. Bill show me where there are materials of a diameter less than 100 nm in Jones' data - Jones hasn't found anything nano.

Mu, that's this symbol here µ when combined with metre m, µm mean micron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micrometre). Not nano. Say it slowly, MyyyKrron, no not moron, Micron. Now click the link at see what it means - that means paying attention and reading for more than 30 seconds without thinking about nano-noonoo- nonsense, comprende?

Either talk about the data or ask good questions - are won't bother with the rest.

And yes I do have a SEM photo of sub-micron Kaolinite too :D

[bofors]

Either talk about the data or ask good questions - are won't bother with the rest.=

Let's talk about DSC data.

Where is yours?

[boloboffin]

Nano - really - Bill you don't even know what nano means with regard to technology. Bill show me where there are materials of a diameter less than 100 nm in Jones' data - Jones hasn't found anything nano.

Mu, that's this symbol here µ when combined with metre m, µm mean micron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micrometre). Not nano. Say it slowly, MyyyKrron, no not moron, Micron. Now click the link at see what it means - that means paying attention and reading for more than 30 seconds without thinking about nano-noonoo- nonsense, comprende?

Either talk about the data or ask good questions - are won't bother with the rest.

And yes I do have a SEM photo of sub-micron Kaolinite too :D

Does the Journal of Chemical Physics have a short article submission process where a quick takedown of this article could be published, Sunstealer?

[beachnut]

The drank the kool-aid Jones followers need no evidence just his word alone. With no evidence of thermite on the WTC steel these faithful few sally out with renewed vigor of hearsay, lies and fantasy. Fight on with nothing new and winning in their own minds. What is their story, the SIOP for this new “Loaded Gun” stuff?

Who did it?
How did they do it?
Why is there no thermite evidence on the steel?
Why does the stuff Jones has look a lot like burnt dust from any old fire?
Why can I find chips just like Jones’ chips in my burn pile in my back yard?

Why is there no SIOP in Jones’ fantasy?

Who believes the thermite in the ceiling tiles endorsed by Jones found in the Hoffman delusion?

[Sunstealer]

You do not care if your Kaolinite / Tnemec (or whatever) hypothesis is true? Is that what you are saying?Reading comprehension is not your forte is it? I have shown that there is a very good explanation for the material in the red and gray layers - I have backed that up with data that is as good as you'll get. You will either understand it, not understand it, ask good questions and have it explained or you''l write BS like this. Now what's it to be? It's easier to put you on ignore.

If not who is going to produce some Kaolinite / Tnemec (or whatever) "red chips" and perform the DSC experiments on them required? Popular Mechanics?Another one who doesn't understand that you don't need to do lots of experiments and such in order to analyse data that is currently published and show that the conclusion published in the paper is wrong. Any more of this kind of rubbish and it's onto the ignore list.

If Jones had bothered to do things properly and have several chips analysed using XRD (http://epswww.unm.edu/xrd/xrdbasics.pdf) (Pdf) or equivalent - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_crystallography, then we would know EXACTLY what the materials are.

[R.Mackey]

For those of you getting hung up on the "nano-engineered" canard, let me offer a counter-example. Activated charcoal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activated_charcoal) is a "nano-engineered" substance -- one that has been manufactured for thousands of years, and refined to near current levels of precision in the 1700's.

While the substances Dr. Jones discusses contain small particles, those same substances are not precision-engineered and therefore do not qualify as "nanotech." For instance, the energy output of his samples varies by roughly a full order of magnitude. This is not the hallmark of a special-purpose application incendiary or explosive. If the production varied that much, the mythical saboteurs would have no choice but to plan their demolition using the lower bound on energy, which means using about ten times as much of the stuff as would be needed were the quality control a bit better. Nobody would be stupid enough to do this, not even the Truth Movement.

Maybe in time, those of you following this paper blindly will begin to understand why we all find it so funny.

[Sunstealer]

Let's talk about DSC data.

Where is yours?Onto the ignore you go. You were warned, but you had to be stupid didn't you? Now I understand the earlier comments about you in this thread.

[bofors]

Does the Journal of Chemical Physics have a short article submission process where a quick takedown of this article could be published, Sunstealer?

Great idea. Make sure to include the following:

(1) Evidence that Kaolinite / Tnemec "red chips" under go a thermite-like reaction at about 430oC.

(2) Photomicrographs of iron-rich microsphere produced by Kaolinite / Tnemec "red chips".

[Sunstealer]

Does the Journal of Chemical Physics have a short article submission process where a quick takedown of this article could be published, Sunstealer?I don't know. The thing is reputable Journals have space constraints and linking to a paper that isn't peer reviewed and considering the subject material the likely hood it will get filed in the round cabinet.

[bill smith]

Nano - really - Bill you don't even know what nano means with regard to technology. Bill show me where there are materials of a diameter less than 100 nm in Jones' data - Jones hasn't found anything nano.

Mu, that's this symbol here µ when combined with metre m, µm mean micron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micrometre). Not nano. Say it slowly, MyyyKrron, no not moron, Micron. Now click the link at see what it means - that means paying attention and reading for more than 30 seconds without thinking about nano-noonoo- nonsense, comprende?

Either talk about the data or ask good questions - are won't bother with the rest.

And yes I do have a SEM photo of sub-micron Kaolinite too :D

I will when you show me particles in paint that come within the same range. (100 nm IS nano..um is micro or 1000 x nano)

[JamesB]

Heh, Harritt in that Dutch TV interview estimates they used as much as 100 tons of nanothermite in the buildings. 100 tons, yeah, nobody is going to notice that. This is what a mere 10 tons of conventional explosives looks like.

ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7tG7keSe-0

[Sunstealer]

I will when you show me particles in paint that come within the same range. (100 nm IS nano..um is micro or 1000 x nano)Sorry I don't understand your post. Yes nanotechnology is <100nm. I told you that. I've asked you several times before what the size was in order to consider something nano-sized. All you've done is pick up that titbit and then I can't understand what you are on about.

Just click on my sig, open Jones' paper and do the comparisons, it's only pattern spotting, you don't need to trawl google images for SEM photos of paint. You've asked good questions in the past - don't go the way of Bofors.

Also note R.Mackey's post #1766 - that's just as valid.

[bill smith]

Heh, Harritt in that Dutch TV interview estimates they used as much as 100 tons of nanothermite in the buildings. 100 tons, yeah, nobody is going to notice that. This is what a mere 10 tons of conventional explosives looks like.

ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7tG7keSe-0

Nah....you're getting mixed up....that was Danish TV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2E911blogger%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded

This week the Dutch TV ran the show that found OBL not guilty of 9/11.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3ie9cf6d4fe9496d052885db4114f0c656

[metamars]

There may be other options. E.g., you can buy silicon in nano-scale platelet form (http://www.primetprecision.com/index.php?id=74&tx_knowledge_pi1[showUid]=8&cHash=2049d8a109).


You can deposit Al onto silicon via sputtering. (http://www.mrs.org/s_mrs/bin.asp?CID=3079&DID=189783&DOC=FILE.PDF)
( and perhaps other methods of physical vapor deposition? not sure if this means elemental Al )


As for the motivation to do so, I have absolutely no idea about cost (and absolutely no intention to research it), but aside from that, referring to "MODELING THE MELT DISPERSION MECHANISM FOR NANOPARTICLE COMBUSTION"

we see that:

nanometer scale spherical particles in nanothermite are 20-120 nm

oxide shell thickness is 1-8 nm

consider middling values of 50 nm and 4 nm, about 26% of your particle is taken up in the oxide shell. You are also wasting the space in between spheres.

Perhaps platelets made on nano-silicon platelet substrates help you pack more elemental Al, per unit volume. Especially if Al-oxide shells are "sticky" as they form Al nanothermite in the normal, spherical form, thus leaving huge pockets of empty space to fill. (BTW, IIRC, the Ph.D. thesis I linked to gets into compressing nanopowders. If not that one, then definitely the master's thesis mentioned above.)

If it does this, and saves you money, that would be a double motivation for doing so.

Once again, I remind everybody that I am not a domain expert. Thus, my sputtering speculations may sputter!

[bofors]

Onto the ignore you go. You were warned, but you had to be stupid didn't you? Now I understand the earlier comments about you in this thread.

Oh no... I am being ignored the JREF circus ringmaster of moment. Whatever...

Anyone with serious materials analysis experience can see that your Kaolinite/Tnemec theory in nothing more than a weak hypothesis produced by rank amateur.

All you have done here that actually has any scientific merit is shown that Kaolinite has a similar EDS spectra to the red side of the chips. But the EDS spectra you showed is missing the peaks for iron observed on the red side, and of course, pure Kaolinite is white.

Kaolinite is just a cheap "filler" material. In no way would the presence of Kaolinite in the red chips mean that they are not thermite-like composites. You can add dirt or talc or sawdust or any other "filler" to thermite and guess what? It can still be a thermite pyrotechnic. So, the red side of the chips may very well be some Kaolinite/Fe2O3 composite. You assertion of the presence of Kaolinite in no way disproves the co-existence thermite.

Otherwise, the SEM data you have posted for Kaolinite is obviously not a good match for the red side of the chips and you do not even seem to have a theory for the grey side of the chips.

Finally, you have failed to post any DSC data for Kaolinite, any images of iron-rich microspheres produced by heating any kind of Kaolinite composite, nor have you even posited any such chemical reaction for Kaolinite:

Al2Si2O5(OH)4 + ???? => Fe (how?)
(Kaolinite)

[boloboffin]

Oh no... I am being ignored the JREF circus ringmaster of moment.

Whatever...

Anyone with serious materials analysis experience can see that your Kaolinite/Tnemec theory in nothing more than a weak hypothesis produced by rank amateur.

All you have done here is shown that Kaolinite has similar EDS spectra to the red side of the chips. But the EDS spectra you showed is missing the peaks for iron observed on the red side, and of course, pure Kaolinite is white.

Kaolinite is just a cheap "filler" material. In no way would the presence of Kaolinite in the red chips mean that they are not thermite-like composites. You can add dirt or talc or sawdust or any other "filler" to thermite and guess what? It is still a thermite pyrotechnic. So, the red side of the chips may very well be some Kaolinite/Fe2O3 composite.

Otherwise, the SEM data you have posted for Kaolinite obviously is not a good match for the red side of the chips and you do not even seem to a theory for the grey side of the chips.

Finally, you have fail to post any DSC data for Kaolinite, any images of iron-rich microspheres produced by heating any kind of Kaolinite composite nor have even posited such chemical reaction:

Al2Si2O5(OH)4 => Fe (how?)
(Kaolinite)

Sunstealer, as you can see, another tactic of the 9/11 conspiracy advocate is to be offensive until you put them on ignore, and then they can start pretending you've run from actual issues. I've reproduced this post so you can see what bofors thinks his aces are, now that you're not looking.

[parky76]

Oh no... I am being ignored by the JREF circus ringmaster of moment. Whatever...

Anyone with serious materials analysis experience can see that your Kaolinite/Tnemec theory in nothing more than a weak hypothesis produced by a rank amateur.

And truthers bash us for the ad hom attacks. Hypocrites all.

[Sparky]

I think it's fair to say that nano technology did not exist in 1971 . So the paint that was used was not a nano product. The substance that professor Jones nd his team of eight scientists have just brought to light IS a nano compound and is very likely to be thermite as he claims. Their conclusions are being confirmed by other scientists reproducing their results sucessfully.

Nano-technology may be a recent development but nanoparticles have been used for thousands of years. They were used by 9th century Mesopotamian artisans to achieve a glittering effect on the surface of pots.

Fail.

[twinstead]

Wow. As usual, we have somebody who has no idea what he is talking about calling one who does a 'rank amateur'.

The "truth" movement ROCKS!

[Sunstealer]

All he has to do is go back and and read the thread or click on it in my sig - he can then read about the "gray layer" and how it's iron oxide 9from steel) and most likely of the magnetite variety. A late comer criticizing a post on a 40th page without checking to see if there already is a idea about what the gray layer is. We've been over that a few times - maghemite, hemetite (haematite), magnetite are all words he can use to search the thread and find posts on it.

He could also look at the EDS data from both papers too.

Funny thing is if you not on Jones' paper he has a sample on page 28 - Fig 31. That has a "gray layer" in it. Guess what's in the "gray layer"? Only Carbon and Oxygen. Now go back and look at the gray layers of the other chips - Fig 6. What's missing?

When there is an answer I'll then draw the conclusion - it's probably obvious to most, but lets see. Lets do some proper analysis.

[metamars]

There may be other options. E.g., you can buy silicon in nano-scale platelet form (http://www.primetprecision.com/index.php?id=74&tx_knowledge_pi1[showUid]=8&cHash=2049d8a109).


You can deposit Al onto silicon via sputtering. (http://www.mrs.org/s_mrs/bin.asp?CID=3079&DID=189783&DOC=FILE.PDF)
( and perhaps other methods of physical vapor deposition? not sure if this means elemental Al )


As for the motivation to do so, I have absolutely no idea about cost (and absolutely no intention to research it), but aside from that, referring to "MODELING THE MELT DISPERSION MECHANISM FOR NANOPARTICLE COMBUSTION"



Another speculation as to platelets vs. spherical:

The MODELING thesis says:

A combination of increased oxide shell formation temperature and increased oxide shell strength could be used to maximize the flame velocity in particles with increased relative particle size.

Besides packing more Al per unit volume, a platelet morphology, by minimizing the ratio of Al to Al oxide, might result in not just more energy, but relatively less power (i.e., a slower reaction). For one thing, I expect the oxide layer to break near the platelet edges (this is an uneducated guess, I hasten to add), and to do so under less pressure than would be required to break an oxide layer of equal thickness in the spherical case. * This would tend to negate the dispersion melt mechanism as a contributor to flame propagation. Hence, your nanothermite will have it's power profile shifted back towards that of the micron-thermite type, while simultaneously generating more total energy.


If you look at Fig. 1 of MODELING, you can see that Aluminothermics already have dramatically superior energy density (per unit mass) than high explosives, but the energy density, per unit volume, of Al/Fe2O3 is only about 40% greater than high explosives. You can't change the inherent mass of reactants, but you can fiddle with the density. If you simultaneously increase the energy per unit volume, while slowing down the reaction, you can end up with a hotter, but quieter "explosion".


* from MODELING: The pressure inside the Al particle causes tensile hoop stress (σh) in the oxide shell. Due to the small thickness of the oxide shell (1 – 8 nm), it is almost defect free and therefore its ultimate strength (σu) approaches the theoretical maximum strength of alumina (σth) estimated at 11.33 GPa [11].

[bill smith]

Nano-technology may be a recent development but nanoparticles have been used for thousands of years. They were used by 9th century Mesopotamian artisans to achieve a glittering effect on the surface of pots.

Fail.

Sure....stained glass was made the same way..not that they knew the technicalities of what they were doing- just that it worked.

But this line from the Jones paper indicates something else altogether.

''After igniting several red/gray chips in a DSC run to
700 °C, we found numerous iron-rich spheres and
spheroids in the residue''

Man this stuff is Thermite....get used to it, 9/11 was an inside job.

[9/11-investigator]

Nah....you're getting mixed up....that was Danish TV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2E911blogger%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded

This week the Dutch TV ran the show that found OBL not guilty of 9/11.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3ie9cf6d4fe9496d052885db4114f0c656

It was Danish TV indeed, in a sort of British Newsnight equivalent. The ´troofers´ are understandably jubilant:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/19805#comment

This is a real first MSM breakthrough, not counting the prime time live japanese coverage of a parlamentarian stating his doubts about the OCT in parlament.

Beginning of the end of the OCT indeed.

[parky76]

Man this stuff is Thermite....get used to it, 9/11 was an inside job.

why..because YOU say so? its that simple huh?

Look out everyone!! Bill Smith says 9-11 was an Inside Job!! We better all cancel our JREF accounts, the mystery has been solved.

=)

[parky76]

Beginning of the end of the OCT indeed.

The end of the what??? October is coming to an end????

After you end October, you gonna take on the Holocaust, the Titanic, March, April, and May?

[twinstead]

Hey. Bill Smith says it's an inside job. Run for the hills folks, our days are numbered!

[Sunstealer]

Sure....stained glass was made the same way..not that they knew the technicalities of what they were doing- just that it worked.

But this line from the Jones paper indicates something else altogether.

''After igniting several red/gray chips in a DSC run to 700 °C, we found numerous iron-rich spheres and spheroids in the residue''

Man this stuff is Thermite....get used to it, 9/11 was an inside job.Nope - 700°C is higher than the melting point of Aluminium - why aren't any of their samples showing globules of aluminium?

We know that independent analysis confirmed iron-rich spheres. Jones' paper proves that a source of iron-rich spheres is burnt paint.

[Sparky]

''After igniting several red/gray chips in a DSC run to
700 °C, we found numerous iron-rich spheres and
spheroids in the residue''

Man this stuff is Thermite....get used to it, 9/11 was an inside job.


Care to explain this huge logic leap?

[parky76]

Nope - 700°C is higher than the melting point of Aluminium - why aren't any of their samples showing globules of aluminium?

We know that independent analysis confirmed iron-rich spheres. Jones' paper proves that a source of iron-rich spheres is burnt paint.


Dude, let it go. Bill Smith just said it was an inside job. We should take his word for it.

:D

[bill smith]

why..because YOU say so? its that simple huh?

I can hardly believe that most guys of your persuasion still say there is no need for a new and independent 9/11 investigation.

[parky76]

I can hardly believe that most guys of your persuasion still say there is no need for a new and independent 9/11 investigation.

what.....lol...cough

what does that exactly mean?

Are you actually claiming that Jews should think that 9-11 was an inside job..because we are Jews? lolololol

oy vey.

your hole is now 9 feet deeper. I suggest you stick to the topic and not derail the thread into ethnic insults.

[twinstead]

oy vey indeed

[bill smith]

Nope - 700°C is higher than the melting point of Aluminium - why aren't any of their samples showing globules of aluminium?

We know that independent analysis confirmed iron-rich spheres. Jones' paper proves that a source of iron-rich spheres is burnt paint.


If I was you I'd be nore concerned about the presence of melted steel than the absence of aluminium.

As a scientist I don't think you can be serious about the burnt paint thing.

[parky76]

As a scientist I don't think you can be serious about the burnt paint thing.

what exactly are your qualifications?

[bill smith]

what.....lol...cough

what does that exactly mean?

Are you actually claiming that Jews should think that 9-11 was an inside job..because we are Jews? lolololol

oy vey.

your hole is now 9 feet deeper. I suggest you stick to the topic and not derail the thread into ethnic insults.

Lol. I am surprised. With a certain little moustache under your nose you might look a litle like somebody German who didn't like Jews. No offence intended btw.

[parky76]

If I was you I'd be nore concerned about the presence of melted steel than the absence of aluminium.

As a scientist I don't think you can be serious about the burnt paint thing.

9-11 was not an inside job. let it go.

[parky76]

Lol. I am surprised. With a certain little moustache under your nose you might look a litle like somebody German who didn't like Jews. No offence intended btw.

No, I have green/blue eyes. Hitler had brown eyes.

Nice ad hom by the way. Learn to attack the message, not the messenger.

[Pardalis]

But what did you mean by "people of your persuasion"?

Were you talking about skeptics here in general, or Parky specifically?

[NutCracker]

Oh no... I am being ignored the JREF circus ringmaster of moment. Whatever...

Anyone with serious materials analysis experience can see that your Kaolinite/Tnemec theory in nothing more than a weak hypothesis produced by rank amateur.



Hmm.. for any lurker it is quite clear the weak hypotheses and rank amateurism is on the side of the table where you and your fellow clueless, delusional dolts (*) are sitting, Czar of the dolts Jones included.

WTC was brought down by demolition. It's true, True, TRUE. Nothing could be more TRUE. And we have da Prooof. Layered stuff, Fe2O3, Al(something).. See ABSOLUTE proof.. termite! Proof.. and no it's not paint from NYU Stadium. ABSOLUTE SCIENTIFIC Proof, we'll tell yu!... Give me a break.

(*) And no, this is not an Ad Hominem, it explains a large volume of empirical data. It is therefore a scientifically correct conclusion

[parky76]

But what did you mean by "people of your persuasion"?

Were you talking about skeptics here in general, or Parky specifically?

he was talking about me. he is saying that a good Jew would be a Truther-Jew.

then he said I almost look like Hitler. nice huh?

:D

[bill smith]

No, I have green/blue eyes. Hitler had brown eyes.

Nice ad hom by the way. Learn to attack the message, not the messenger.

You guys are so touchy. There was no ad hom intended but if you want to pretend there was then knock yourself out Parky.

[Pardalis]

he was talking about me. he is saying that a good Jew would be a Truther-Jew.

:D

Let him speak for himself, he's rather new here, he may not have known you're Jewish.

[bill smith]

he was talking about me. he is saying that a good Jew would be a Truther-Jew.

then he said I almost look like Hitler. nice huh?

:D

I'm not going to get into this in a big way, but how would have known you were Jewish in the first place ?

I meant government loyalists of course.

[9/11-investigator]

The end of the what??? October is coming to an end????

After you end October, you gonna take on the Holocaust, the Titanic, March, April, and May?

That's a delicate issue indeed. When this 9/11-subject will find it's end as expected, I certainly will feel an emptyness, a void, nay a vacuum. Fortunately that mystery is not completely solved yet. The real interesting part, meaning it's social implications, and of course whodunnit, has yet to emerge.

Let's count out possibilities like adding Denmark to the illustrious list of countries belonging to the Axis of Evil, let alone bestow the brave Vikings with a few daisycutters for free, it will be quite interesting to see how the American society will react to this unprecedented situation. I still have enough faith in the Americans that they will react appropiately and 'take their country back' without creating a too great a mess.

P.S. the Titanic run on an iceberg. It's as boring as that. Much more interesting is a story on the Lusitania. Since a couple of weeks we know that the Germans were right after all.

[The Platypus]

I can hardly believe that most guys of your persuasion still say there is no need for a new and independent 9/11 investigation.

Do you honestly think we don't know that is just a bluff? There could be 100 more investigations done and i have no doubt that no matter who did them, as long as they don't see it as an evil conspiracy by the jews/masons/satanist/bilderberg/bankers and now obama. You 9/11 cult nutjobs will just claim they weren't valid, that the scientists and experts are all in on it and conspiring against your cult and all of society, and there would be more demands for more investigations.

You don't fool me for a second, you will keep beating that dead horse no matter what.

[Pardalis]

I meant government loyalists of course.

But why would "government loyalists" as you call them want a new investigation?

[parky76]

Much more interesting is a story on the Lusitania. Since a couple of weeks we know that the Germans were right after all.

Yeah, the Germans shot it, and ordinance inside blew up. Big woop. Then they took out 2 more American boats, and we finally declared war.

[The Platypus]

he was talking about me. he is saying that a good Jew would be a Truther-Jew.

then he said I almost look like Hitler. nice huh?

:D

From what i have seen, their "conspiracy" is just a rewrapped version of the same old, weak, "it's the jews running the world" game.

[jhunter1163]

Typical Truther, trying to use insults to distract us from the fact that he just got his ass handed to him.

[parky76]

I meant government loyalists of course.

why the pointless strawman attack?

can't we just be average Joes who disagree with you?

why do we ALWAYS have to be "government loyalists", or "Mossad agents", or "Zionist moles", or "Neo-Con spies"?

does it hurt your theory THAT MUCH to think you are just debating with fellow Americans who profoundly disagree?

unbelievable. I have never seen such a bunch of hateful people before. they cannot stand opposition and will attack anything that moves, if it dares to not step in line.

so much for democracy and freedom of thought. this is why i liken some truthers to National Socialists.

[bill smith]

Do you honestly think we don't know that is just a bluff? There could be 100 more investigations done and i have no doubt that no matter who did them, as long as they don't see it as an evil conspiracy by the jews/masons/satanist/bilderberg/bankers and now obama. You 9/11 cult nutjobs will just claim they weren't valid, that the scientists and experts are all in on it and conspiring against your cult and all of society, and there would be more demands for more investigations.

You don't fool me for a second, you will keep beating that dead horse no matter what.

It's time for somebody to start a new thread on the composition of a new 9/11 enquiry. That will be a very difficult task and the debate should start now.

[twinstead]

It's time for somebody to start a new thread on the composition of a new 9/11 enquiry. That will be a very difficult task and he debate should start now.

Do a search on this forum first. It's been done to death

[parky76]

fuggetaboutit

[bill smith]

why the pointless strawman attack?

can't we just be average Joes who disagree with you?

why do we ALWAYS have to be "government loyalists", or "Mossad agents", or "Zionist moles", or "Neo-Con spies"?

does it hurt your theory THAT MUCH to think you are just debating with fellow Americans who profoundly disagree?

unbelievable. I have never seen such a bunch of hateful people before. they cannot stand opposition and will attack anything that moves, if it dares to not step in line.

so much for democracy and freedom of thought. this is why i liken some truthers to National Socialists.
A matter this serious will always divide into two or more camps. Heated exchanges and opposite opinions lead to sides and labeling automatically.

[Pardalis]

It's time for somebody to start a new thread on the composition of a new 9/11 enquiry. That will be a very difficult task and he debate should start now.

Now? We've been asking you to do that for years!

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=114249
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3677685&postcount=126
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=111364
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=66514
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=108319
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=102457
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=90312
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=87512
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=87106
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63825

[parky76]

A matter this serious will always divide into two or more camps. Heated exchanges and opposite opinions lead to sides and labeling automatically.

nice excuse. its BS. but its an excuse.

especially when truthers whine day and night about "debunker" personal attacks.

[The Platypus]

It's time for somebody to start a new thread on the composition of a new 9/11 enquiry. That will be a very difficult task and he debate should start now.

And who would your group consider credible once the investigations conclusions didn't go your way? Noone... The cult has already rejected multiple investigations and inquiries, and also rejected thousands and thousands of experts. Some of them of the best in their fields.

Not to mention how the cult throws instant inclusion of culpability at anyone that doesn't automatically agree with their wild, ever changing stories.

So whose investigation would you accept even if they didn't agree with you?

It's quite obvious that you guys aren't looking for "the truth".

[Pardalis]

You didn't answer my question, Bill.

I can hardly believe that most guys of your persuasion still say there is no need for a new and independent 9/11 investigation.
I meant government loyalists of course.

Why can't you believe that "government loyalists" say that there is no need for another investigation?

Your post doesn't make any sense.

[boloboffin]

He explained himself a little better. Let's laugh at him for the correct reason, guys. He thought that parky's avatar was a picture of parky.

At least, he'd like for us to think that he made that mistake rather than making an insult based on parky's heritage.

[parky76]

Bill- we have all known, for quite some time, that most if not all truthers would NEVER accept any investigation, no matter how independent and unbiased, if it did not agree with the "9-11 was an Inside Job" cult mantra.

admit it. you would not accept it either. you have made up your mind and nothing can change it.

[bill smith]

But why would "government loyalists" as you call them want a new investigation?

They absolutely do not want one. You know it and I know it.

[The Platypus]

nice excuse. its BS. but its an excuse.

especially when truthers whine day and night about "debunker" personal attacks.

That's what cults do.

It's classic for cults to completely demonize and insult those not in the cult, and they later try to play the persecution complex... If only i had a nickel for everytime i seen that game played...

[metamars]

Nope - 700°C is higher than the melting point of Aluminium - why aren't any of their samples showing globules of aluminium?

We know that independent analysis confirmed iron-rich spheres. Jones' paper proves that a source of iron-rich spheres is burnt paint.


Where are you going with this one?

Our favorite thermite reaction:

Fe2O3 + 2Al -> 2Fe + Al2O3 + Heat

Shouldn't you be making a comment about Al2O3 spheres?

However, Al2O3 has a melting point of 2054 C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxide).....

[parky76]

id be happy to see a new independent investigation, if 9-11 truthers swore under oath to end ANY and ALL political/lobbying/activist activity once the investigation came to its conclusions, under pain of fine and imprisonment.

Bill- i would accept the findings of a truly independent, scientific, expert, new investigation, ragardless of its findings...INCLUDING if it said "the wtc appears to have come down due to an explosive or accelerant".

would you, on the other hand, accept the same investigatory findings, if it said "the wtc towers came down due to the impact damage of the plane, weakened steel, and gravity. no explosives or accelerants were used"????????

would you accept such findings??

[Pardalis]

They absolutely do not want one. You know it and I know it.

Then why did you say "I can hardly believe"?

Seems pretty logical to me.

[bill smith]

Bill- we have all known, for quite some time, that most if not all truthers would NEVER accept any investigation, no matter how independent and unbiased, if it did not agree with the "9-11 was an Inside Job" cult mantra.

admit it. you would not accept it either. you have made up your mind and nothing can change it.

The same the other way Parky. Oneside or the other will findit tough to accept. So be it.I know one thing....we will not accept an enquiry hat looks like a set up. That's why it will be dificult.

The trouble for you guys is is that the government has been judged at the kitchen tables of half the world already.

[FineWine]

[QUOTE=JamesB;4608711]Heh, Harritt in that Dutch TV interview estimates they used as much as 100 tons of nanothermite in the buildings. 100 tons, yeah, nobody is going to notice that. This is what a mere 10 tons of conventional explosives looks like.




I don't remember much about chemistry (I took it in high school), but when people talk about 100 tons of explosives getting snuck into an office building, why doesn't the discussion end right there?

[9/11-investigator]

It's time for somebody to start a new thread on the composition of a new 9/11 enquiry. That will be a very difficult task and the debate should start now.

That 'difficult task' is an understatement. You're asking the American establishment to commit suicide.

I'll predict that 'change' will come from 'below', comparable to the situation in the GDR, 1989.

Obama promised Change.

He will get: 'We Are Change':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MBzLTjVMhY

Emanuel and Axelrodt are not going to like it...

... and Obama will continue to read aloud whatever will appear on his teleprompter.

[Sparky]

They absolutely do not want one. You know it and I know it.

Must of us don't care if there was a new investigation or not as long as we don't have to pay for it. We're confident that the results won't differ to any appreciable degree from any previous investigation.

Why waste the time and money?

[bill smith]

Then why did you say "I can hardly believe"?

Seems pretty logical to me.

I crossed my fingers when I said it.

[parky76]

Emanuel and Axelrodt are not going to like it...


ahh..the two Jews.....I mean "Zionists".

[chillzero]

This thread is no longer on topic, and has attracted a large amount of mod attention. Therefore I am closing it.