How popular will 9-11 Conspiracy Theories be in 10 years?

[parky76]

Just as there is not a great deal of talk anymore about JFK, I believe that by 2019 the level of conversation about 9-11 theories will get to such a low that it won't really be noticed anymore.

Oh I can so hope.

Thoughts?

[beachnut]

Just as there is not a great deal of talk anymore about JFK, I believe that by 2019 the level of conversation about 9-11 theories will get to such a low that it won't really be noticed anymore.

Oh I can so hope.

Thoughts?

It will be the same; about 0.001 percent of educated engineers and scientist will fall for the idiotic ideas.

People will push the doltish ideas to make money just like today with Gage going on a paid speaking engagement to SF conference with the best rooms and great food on his 16k budget. Snake oil salesmen will always be there to prey on our weak moments.

No rational humans with knowledge and sound judgment will fall for it.

Those who lack knowledge on 911 may fall for the lies and hearsay; they sound good to certain people just like JFK, bigfoot, UFOs, aliens, and countless other fraudulent ideas.

[Mancman]

Just as there is not a great deal of talk anymore about JFK, I believe that by 2019 the level of conversation about 9-11 theories will get to such a low that it won't really be noticed anymore.

Oh I can so hope.

Thoughts?

It's already that low.

Slap the laptop screen down, or simply don't visit a handful of websites, and 9/11 truth disappears.

[Quad4_72]

Seeing as how outside of this forum and a few other websites, no one has ever heard of 9/11 Truth I don't think there will be much left once 2019 rolls around.

[JihadJane]

Only parky76 will be writing about them.

[240-185]

I think the first important step is the 9/11/2011.
Let's see how revelant the twoofers will be.

[parky76]

Only parky76 will be writing about them.

I did not attack you. DO NOT attack me!!!!

[T.A.M.]

As popular as Parky Starting new threads!!!

TAM:D

[T.A.M.]

On a more serious note...

I think that in 10 years the 9/11 CTs will be similar to any other CT, no more popular, no less. I place it somewhere less than JFK, somewhere above Moon Hoax.

TAM:)

[parky76]

I think it will be just slightly more popular then JFK..but not much. I think the number of youth and other folks who are totally dissalusioned with the 9-11 truth clubs failure to achieve anything is huge. and unless Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, or Wolfowitz spill the beans, these ex-truthers ain't coming back.

Great promises and predictions were made in 2006 and 2007. Those promises and predictions have not come true.

[T.A.M.]

I think it will be just slightly more popular then JFK..but not much. I think the number of youth and other folks who are totally dissalusioned with the 9-11 truth clubs failure to achieve anything is huge. and unless Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, or Wolfowitz spill the beans, these ex-truthers ain't coming back.

Great promises and predictions were made in 2006 and 2007. Those promises and predictions have not come true.

I disagree, and here is why...

1. 10 years from now, JFK will have had nearly 50 years to mount curiosities and doubts. 9/11 will have only had 18.
2. It is easier, and less contraversial to be part of the JFK CT, then the 9/11 CT.
3. In 10 years a Huge part of the truth movement, the angry young men, will be older, and a lot of them will have abandoned their silly beliefs.

TAM:)

[dtugg]

I also doubt that 9/11 twoof will ever be as popular as JFK. I think the biggest reason that people believe JFK CTs is because of Oliver Stone's crappy movie, which I must admit suckered me in when I was in high school. Plus it is much easier to believe that a few rouge people in the CIA or whatever killed JFK than it is to believe that a huge evil cabal conspired together (with zero leaks) to kill 3,000 people so Bush could steal some oil from Iraq or whatever twoofers say the motive was.

I think that they will end up being perhaps slightly more popular than the moonbats.

[parky76]

3. In 10 years a Huge part of the truth movement, the angry young men, will be older,

and dead, from horribly tragic "accidents".

[apathoid]

It's already that low.

Slap the laptop screen down, or simply don't visit a handful of websites, and 9/11 truth disappears.


QFE.

I still haven't met a real life truther and very, very few people I know are even are aware that there is a 9/11 conspiracy theory. As far as I'm concerned, the 9/11 Truth crowd are on par with the moon hoaxers, flat earthers and UFO nuts.

[T.A.M.]

Yes, and this is the principle reason why I gave up with long winded explanations. Before I could justify it with the old,

"do it for the lurkers" line. Now I think most of the lurkers are chicken hearted, or previously banned truthers.

So unless something new comes up, or a new contention arises, I pretty much make comments, and little else.

TAM:)

[JihadJane]

I did not attack you. DO NOT attack me!!!!

Wasn't meant as an attack - just a friendly tease!

[fitzgibbon]

I'll wager that the die-hard 'truthers' still extant will be pulling the same junk on the then-15-year-old boys (today's 5-year-olds) that they're trying to pull today with the added bonus that the well-informed debunkers of today will have gotten tired of debunking the same lies over and over and over again, yielding the salted fields of 9-11 'truth' to the 'truthers' who derive their life and raison d'etre from it. They will seize and embrace it, fiercely defending it and making it their own, free from all contradiction, common sense and logic.

Today's urban legends will have developed lives of their own. The dancing Israelis (as well as being the name for a punk rock cover band) will have morphed into something I'm not going to even pretend to guess at. Technological changes between now and then will render some of today's wild-and-wooly weirdness (a la space-based lasers et al) less out-there than they are now (even though the believers will not be able to be convinced that such technology wasn't part of some ultra-black-ops budget and available in 2001)

9-11 'truther's will be there in diminishing-but-defiant numbers because for them, 9-11 will be the only thing in their pitiful lives that gives it purpose.

[UNLoVedRebel]

QFE.

I still haven't met a real life truther and very, very few people I know are even are aware that there is a 9/11 conspiracy theory.
I've noticed the same thing. I have yet to meet a truther, and those who I've discussed 9/11 with have no idea about any "alternative explanations". Next time the topic of 9/11 comes up with friends or family, tell them you think "thermite cutter charges" are what brought down the WTC towers and that your "proof" is molten metal. See how they react, then tell us about.

[parky76]

c

9-11 'truther's will be there in diminishing-but-defiant numbers because for them, 9-11 will be the only thing in their pitiful lives that gives it purpose.

Awww...such harsh words.

But sadly true.

[ozeco41]

QFE.

I still haven't met a real life truther and very, very few people I know are even are aware that there is a 9/11 conspiracy theory. As far as I'm concerned, the 9/11 Truth crowd are on par with the moon hoaxers, flat earthers and UFO nuts.

I know one as an aquaintance in a town I lived in until two years back.

He is into any conspiracy from NWO through "vapour trails" whatever and 9/11.

His whole thinking process uses the divergent "logic" cannot focus build on innuendoes that the truthers employ. He is not a Jones/Gage/Chandler leading manipulator of the gullible - more the "first row of supporters who believe anything the "leaders" say oops - they never do "say" do rthey - rather "infer"...

Still he got me interested in the technical aspects of 9/11 - the WTC "Demolition or Not" question which was home turf for me as a military and civil engineer with some forensic analysis experience.

His type will never change. So there will always be some CTs - what that says for the ranking of 9/11 in USA I cannot judge. No one I meet in Australia (other than him) gives it a second thought these days.

[parky76]

I know one as an aquaintance in a town I lived in until two years back.

He is into any conspiracy from NWO through "vapour trails" whatever and 9/11.

His whole thinking process uses the divergent "logic" cannot focus build on innuendoes that the truthers employ. He is not a Jones/Gage/Chandler leading manipulator of the gullible - more the "first row of supporters who believe anything the "leaders" say oops - they never do "say" do rthey - rather "infer"...

Still he got me interested in the technical aspects of 9/11 - the WTC "Demolition or Not" question which was home turf for me as a military and civil engineer with some forensic analysis experience.

His type will never change. So there will always be some CTs - what that says for the ranking of 9/11 in USA I cannot judge. No one I meet in Australia (other than him) gives it a second thought these days.

my friend is now unemployed. he is living in his mother's den. he has a fantasy of marrying an asian woman. he seems to be diving deeper and deeper into conspiracy theories.

i guess this is typical of truthers huh?

[ozeco41]

my friend is now unemployed. he is living in his mother's den. he has a fantasy of marrying an asian woman. he seems to be diving deeper and deeper into conspiracy theories.

i guess this is typical of truthers huh?

My friend is a computer servicing business owner - how he can analyse computer/IT problems with the brain that accepts Conspiracy "Logic" is beyond my comprehension.

Much easier to understand with people who are essentially divergent non logical non analytical persons --- conspiracy innuendoes accepted as fact are the normal way of "thinking" for them.

But a computer troubleshooter who you would presume to be very "left brained"??????

...beats me. :jaw-dropp

[mark4mark]

Just as there is not a great deal of talk anymore about JFK, I believe that by 2019 the level of conversation about 9-11 theories will get to such a low that it won't really be noticed anymore.

Oh I can so hope.

Thoughts?

Sadly, I don't believe it will ever totally dissipate. This is a faith-based thought process that, despite it's sick connotations, offers people relief manifested in what they perceive as-to them-a more "understandable" explanation of what occurred that day. There will always be clingers...

[ozeco41]

Sadly, I don't believe it will ever totally dissipate. This is a faith-based thought process that, despite it's sick connotations, offers people relief manifested in what they perceive as-to them-a more "understandable" explanation of what occurred that day. There will always be clingers...

That has a "positive side" too...

....the real need for a grieving process at community level for the major offence perpetrated against the US community at many levels.... and those of us who share some empathy with them.

Even the acceptance of "demolition" at WTC is easier for none technical persons to accept that the idea that a building could self destruct.... three buildings actually, two by same mechanism.

So they are easy pickings for the manipulators and their "lies by innuendo".

[T.A.M.]

"manipulators" is so modern. I prefer the older "snake oil salesmen" myself. The only difference is the "manipulator" uses the internet as his stage, compared to the outskirt roads used by the snake oil sellers.

TAM:)

[DavidJames]

9/11 CT's will, until something bigger comes along, be the most popular CT for our lifetime, surpassing JFK for sure. The reason is simple, it's an anti-govt CT. There always has and always will be mistrust of government. Those with brains pre-disposed to CT's, will latch on to this one.

Despite some peoples beliefs, the 9/11 CT is mostly party-neutral. No doubt , GWB got most of the heat, but as I figured, it's slowly morphing into Obama being part of it and as administrations change and time passess, GWB will be less and less associated with it, replaced simply by the evil government or NWO or whatever term is in vogue at the time.

It will continue to dwindle in popularity as the current crop of high profile loons pass on, but as long as humans are afflicted with conspiratorial predispositions, CT's will exist and as long as mistrust of government exists, the 9/11 CT will be the centerpiece.

[SmartyPants]

I can't ever see 9/11 passing JFK; as far as I'm concerned, JFK is the undisputed, undefeated heavyweight champion of conspiracy theories. Most Americans (somewhere between 60-80% would be my guess) believe JFK was assassinated as a result of a conspiracy, usually government ordered. The amount of literature published and different theories propagated is so vast it's almost unfathomable. Indeed, the notion that JFK was assassinated by a conspiracy is practically ingrained into the American psyche. I mean, people laugh at you if you think Oswald was the lone gunman.

On the other hand, people usually laugh, or at least raise their eyebrows, at Truthers.

I agree that the storylines will evolve over time (and that's exactly what's happened with JFK), but they'll probably be confined to anti-government/NWO theories, which there are plenty of JFK theories that follow that thread, however, I can't see many 9/11 theories going beyond that.

In my opinion, Truthers will never make up more than 1/3 of the public, nor do I think they will ever try to bring a serious case to a court of law or form a serious investigation; at least Jim Garrison tried.

Put it this way: I know several intelligent people who believe JFK was killed as the result of a conspiracy, and you can understand why they would believe that for multiple reasons. But I don't know any smart, reasonable people who believe in the 9/11 stuff, nor could I understand why they would.

[JoeyDonuts]

9/11 hasn't taken the bizarre twist of linking to the Majestic-12 and all that craziness that went along with JFK CT's. Unless, of course, some of the older woos have made that connection and I haven't heard of it yet.

Can't exactly say I've been looking. :)

[JihadJane]

my friend is now unemployed. he is living in his mother's den. he has a fantasy of marrying an asian woman. he seems to be diving deeper and deeper into conspiracy theories.

i guess this is typical of truthers huh?

Typical? Is this a scientifically based guess?

You may be confusing boy debunker club fantasies about "truthers" with reality.

[dtugg]

Well, there are so few twoofers in the real world (I've met exactly one) that it is extremely hard to get a large enough sample to make to make any kind of accurate guess as to what is typical of them. Except that they are stupid and ignorant, simply because one has to be in order to believe what they do.

[MikeW]

I think the big development over the next ten years will be the growth of LIHOPpers attacking MIHOP arguments. This happens to a degree now, and I think as people tire of the "big tent" approach, and aging arguments like "the hijackers weren't on the manifests", it's only going to increase. My guess would be that in ten years time most active "debunking" will come from remaining truther factions fighting each other.

[Macgyver1968]

Seeing as how outside of this forum and a few other websites, no one has ever heard of 9/11 Truth I don't think there will be much left once 2019 rolls around.

I had never even heard of "911 truth" until about 4 months ago, when some Ts'ers started a bunch of 911 threads on my science board.

[T.A.M.]

I had never even heard of "911 truth" until about 4 months ago, when some Ts'ers started a bunch of 911 threads on my science board.

kind of reminds you of a fungus doesn't it?

TAM:D

[Kesha]

QFE.

I still haven't met a real life truther and very, very few people I know are even are aware that there is a 9/11 conspiracy theory.

You`ve not been to Europe recently, right?

[VespaGuy]

I still haven't met a real life truther and very, very few people I know are even are aware that there is a 9/11 conspiracy theory. As far as I'm concerned, the 9/11 Truth crowd are on par with the moon hoaxers, flat earthers and UFO nuts.

I've mentioned the same thing before. But I have recently seen my very first real life reference to 9/11 conspiracies. In a suburb of Boston, on the back of a street sign at a busy intersection, I saw a small "Investigate 9/11" bumper sticker.

This is honestly the first time I have EVER seen a reference to 9/11 conspracies outside of the internet. The revolution must be right around the corner.

[VespaGuy]

I think that there is a big difference between other conspiracies (moon hoax, JFK) and the proliferation of the 9/11 Truth Movement - the internet.

Now, sure, there is a wealth of information about ANY conspiracy theory on the internet. Just google "JFK Assassination" or "Apollo Moon Landing" and most of the links will be to conspiracy sites rather than to real information.

However, 9/11 was the first major conspiracy worthy event of the internet era. I found out about the first impact when a coworker e-mailed me. And like many people at work that day, I found a news site and constantly refreshed to get my news at almost real-time regularity. Before the internet, our news was limited to television and from the handful of people we'd bump into on a normal day. But with the internet, we could get news from thousands of sources - with each source trying to be first with the scoop. In addition, you even had non-news sites (like Fark) where the forums were flooded with everyone exchanging information about what they heard/saw. The network of information was gigantic.

With the internet, we also had some other new "tools" that were easy to misuse and misunderstand. Thanks to the internet, we could go back and see/read almost every account of the disaster as it happened; something that just wasn't possible in the JFK or moon landing era. This made it wasy for a CT to pick out an insignificant and expected quote ("it sounded like a bomb going off") and immediately find dozens of other similar quotes to reach strained conclusions. Now everyone with a computer could be a super sleuth. And the race began to be the FIRST to find anomolies, no matter how ridiculous.

Around this time, we also witnessed the birth and proliferation of internet video sites like Google Video and YouTube. Now, just having a website with information was boring - you could set the information to a funky beat, add a voice over or text, and immediately you've got something that can capture the attention of the younger demographic who can't be bothered to look things up themselves. You can even go a step further, and instead of just quote mining in text, you have the ability to use edited news clips to further "strenghten" your CT.

The big question then becomes, with all of these resources available, wouldn't the REAL information be just as easily available? Wouldn't these same tools make it just as easy to debunk this nonsense? And the answer doesn't seem to be too clear cut.

You would think that due to the countless videos of planes slamming into the towers, that there wouldn't be any dispute as to what happened on the morning of 9/11. Yet, those very same videos are used by a small faction of conspiracy theorists to "prove" that planes didn't hit. It just doesn't makes sense.

I'd love to beleive that 10 years from now the 9/11 Truthers will just be a bad memory, but thanks to the internet all of those ridiculous theories will still be sitting there, just waiting for a young, angry, pot-smoking, authority-hating, male to stumble upon. Their eyes will light up when they discover that the hijackers are still alive. Or when they discover that firefighters heard bombs. Or when they uncover Silverstein's damning quote. Like all of the truthers before him, he will think that HE is the one who has uncovered the plot, he is the one who knows more than you, he is the one who will expose this conspiracy that nobody knows about.

Like others here, I think there will always be a small percentage of 'truthers'. It is useless to think that this type of foolishness can ever be eliminated. The best we can hope for is that real information is available for those who want to know what really happened on that day. And hope that the memory of the thousands that died isn't ever cheapened by the actions of an extremely small minority of nuts.

[Klimax]

You`ve not been to Europe recently, right?

I am in Europe and I have met exactly one full CTer.(libertarian ;))
There are various small scale conspiracies on local(country-only) level.But otherwise I either met wrong people or CT mindset is not that terribly spread.

[funk de fino]

Typical? Is this a scientifically based guess?

You may be confusing boy debunker club fantasies about "truthers" with reality.


Met 1. Totally unintelligent, racist, dishwasher. Stayed at home with parents.

100% strike rate in my area.

[parky76]

My co-worker used to be a truther. He believed that the govt. did 9-11.

He also cheats on his wife constantly, he is paranoid as hell, has terrible social skills, is a malignant narcascist, and a sadist. And arrogant as hell.

To be honest, I have never...ever...met a truther who was emotionally or intellectually sound. They have all been messed up in some significant way.

And yes, when I believed in 9-11 conspiracy theories, I myself was a lot more paranoid, anti-social, and vulnerable.

Funny how my emotional progress and recovery coincided with my rejection of 9-11 truth.

=)

[Dave Rogers]

Also in Europe. Also only ever met one person who believed 9/11 was an inside job. I think he's got over it now.

Dave

[JoeyDonuts]

Now here's a question.

How many folks in the 'debunking' or...legitimate scientific community switched camps TO 9-11 Truth?

*crickets*

Thought so.

[parky76]

Ya. I don't think anyone goes from being an active debunker to being a truther.

that would be a total devolution of their brain.

[SmartyPants]

My co-worker used to be a truther. He believed that the govt. did 9-11.

He also cheats on his wife constantly, he is paranoid as hell, has terrible social skills, is a malignant narcascist, and a sadist. And arrogant as hell.

To be honest, I have never...ever...met a truther who was emotionally or intellectually sound. They have all been messed up in some significant way.

And yes, when I believed in 9-11 conspiracy theories, I myself was a lot more paranoid, anti-social, and vulnerable.

Funny how my emotional progress and recovery coincided with my rejection of 9-11 truth.

=)

Actually, I take back what I said in my earlier post. There's one person I went to grad school with (granted, it was the English program as opposed to the physics program) who is, how do I say this, inclined to believe in 9/11. This is a more or less rational person, very smart, and willing to at least glance at evidence. She didn't get defensive when I challenged her and linked her to Gravy's site, which may Truther do. I believed she at least to took a look at it (and unquestionably had bias going into it).

Her emotional intelligence, however, leaves something to be desired. I believe she buys in 9/11 woo because her boyfriend is a dyed-in-the-wool CTist. He pretty much fits the description of your co-worker, minus the sadism (as far as I know) and cheating. Think sociopath. If she left him, and lord knows it would take a lot to be rid of him, I think she'd actually come around.

Anyway, your original point is well taken. I think there's a high percentage of Truthers that have emotional issues (not saying skeptics don't). An overlapping percentage also just want to be different or have the prestige of "being in the know" while the rest of us sheeple blindly follow the Obama deception, or whatever they're calling it this week. In weird, twisted sort of way, it's like they've formed their own secret cabal.

[parky76]

9-11 Truth does indeed take on many of the characteristics of a cult/new religion.

-We have the truth. Those who disagree are inspired by the enemy.

-We have the truth. You must accept what we say, or be damned.

-We have the truth. By now, if you do not accept the truth, you are the enemy.

-We have the truth. A time will come when the forces of evil come to take us. But
we will triumph against them!!

[Dave Rogers]

How many folks in the 'debunking' or...legitimate scientific community switched camps TO 9-11 Truth?


I ran a poll on it here some time ago. There were two votes in the debunker-turned-truther category, but neither of them cared to post anything in the thread despite repeated requests. I was left with the conclusion that two truthers had lied.

Dave

[parky76]

its like going from believing that the Earth is round..to believing it is flat.

from believing in natural selection and evolution..to Creationism.

its a total backwards movement.

[Kesha]

I am in Europe and I have met exactly one full CTer.(libertarian ;))
There are various small scale conspiracies on local(country-only) level.But otherwise I either met wrong people or CT mindset is not that terribly spread.

Sorry, my fault. I was refering to Old Europe.

[Klimax]

Sorry, my fault. I was refering to Old Europe.

Wait a minute,what is exactly "Old Europe"? :confused:
Is that West Europe?(My country is Czech Republic and no conspiracy under discussion here or on CT sites is too known...)

[Kesha]

Wait a minute,what is exactly "Old Europe"? :confused:
Is that West Europe?(My country is Czech Republic and no conspiracy under discussion here or on CT sites is too known...)

Yeah, I know what flag you`re flying, mate. CZ.

What is "Old Europe"? R U kidding?


"You're thinking of Europe as Germany and France. I don't. I think that's old Europe," Rumsfeld told reporters."
xxx.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/01/24/france.germany.rumsfeld/

Well, Old Europe was sceptical about Iraq in early 2003, as it seems. No wonder most citizens are now sceptical when it comes to the OCT. You may call that Bush` Burden.

[GlennB]

Sorry, my fault. I was refering to Old Europe.

Interesting ... what was added to (or subtracted from) Old Europe to make it New Europe ?

[Kesha]

Interesting ... what was added to (or subtracted from) Old Europe to make it New Europe ?

It never was.

PL and CZ, former soviet hemisphere, has been added to Nato.

[Klimax]

Yeah, I know what flag you`re flying, mate. CZ.

What is "Old Europe"? R U kidding?


"You're thinking of Europe as Germany and France. I don't. I think that's old Europe," Rumsfeld told reporters."
xxx.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/01/24/france.germany.rumsfeld/

Well, Old Europe was sceptical about Iraq in early 2003, as it seems. No wonder most citizens are now sceptical when it comes to the OCT. You may call that Bush` Burden.

And what? What about Spain?Italy?Denmark?Finland,Norway and Sweden?
It wasn't used before and was promoted by USA Gov.Not much,since technically Germany,France,Czech and Slovakai rep. and Italy are all part of old Europe.

It never was.

PL and CZ, former soviet hemisphere, has been added to Nato.

This label is bit rubbish.
Second I am sceptical about claim about spread of CT in "Old Eurpe".

And lastly they might be sceptical,but so long they go with evidence,it is not denial and conspiratorial thinking.

[psikeyhackr]

How popular will Newtonian Physics be in10 years?

I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.
.
That thread about Newton's 1st law is hilarious. It applies just as much to the lower stationary portion of the north tower as it does to the falling top portion.

So information on the distribution of mass from an OFFICIAL SOURCE is where?

They must have fun trying to do a competent job teaching physics these days. You see Newtonian physics works the same way everywhere all of the time except in New York on 9/11.

ROFLMAO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXAerZUw4Wc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0kUICwO93Q

psik

[dudalb]

Oh, you have a avatar with an Anarchist symbol. You are so freaking edgy, guy.

[1337m4n]

has terrible social skills, is a malignant narcascist, and a sadist. And arrogant as hell.

Hmmm...sounds like I would be a Truther, if only I were less intelligent. :D

[Father Dagon]

There is a big difference between JFK and 9-11: The 9-11 took place in a time where the internet had matured. Therefore, the trufher movment is burning/has burned itself out.

[roundhead]

I ran a poll on it here some time ago. There were two votes in the debunker-turned-truther category, but neither of them cared to post anything in the thread despite repeated requests. I was left with the conclusion that two truthers had lied.

Dave


Key words in your slurpation being.." i ran a poll on it here"

Thats like running a poll outside Yankee stadium asking people if they hate the Yankees...

Your abandonment of reason continues to amaze me

[psikeyhackr]

Oh, you have a avatar with an Anarchist symbol. You are so freaking edgy, guy.
.
You talkin' to me?

Because if you are, then you aren't noticing the relevant part. Watch the Mirror, Mirror episode in Star Trek '66. Then watch the Mirror episodes in DS9. The word REVOLT is just a reference Spock in the Mirror Universe.

psik

[DGM]

How popular will Newtonian Physics be in10 years?


.
That thread about Newton's 1st law is hilarious. It applies just as much to the lower stationary portion of the north tower as it does to the falling top portion.

So information on the distribution of mass from an OFFICIAL SOURCE is where?

They must have fun trying to do a competent job teaching physics these days. You see Newtonian physics works the same way everywhere all of the time except in New York on 9/11.
ROFLMAO
[/url]

psik

When do you plan to show that any "law of physics" was broken?

Still waiting (please start a new thread if you ever plan to back up your BS).

[Dave Rogers]

Key words in your slurpation being.." i ran a poll on it here"

Thats like running a poll outside Yankee stadium asking people if they hate the Yankees.../

And yet the likes of you, psikeyhackr, Heiwa, bill smith, RedIbis, senenmut, Mr. X, Swing Dangler and thewholesoul seem happy to shout about their beliefs ad infinitum on this forum. The key point is that it seems truthers are prepared to lie about anything, including how they came to be truthers.

Frankly, I'd expect any debunker-turned-truther to be a fixture here. Where better to win converts, if you have a case to present supported by genuine evidence that's so compelling that it converted you, despite being fully convinced otherwise? And yet, there seem to be quite a few truthers who reached a point where the evidence finally convinced them they were wrong, and not a peep out of any debunkers who got convinced the other way. If you know of an example, please let me know, because I'd like to hear their story. As long, that is, as it's true.

Your abandonment of reason continues to amaze me

Your lack of acquaintance with it still doesn't.

Dave

[johnny karate]

Key words in your slurpation being.." i ran a poll on it here"

Thats like running a poll outside Yankee stadium asking people if they hate the Yankees...

Would that be like running a poll outside of an FDNY firehouse to find out how many of them are cowards since you've characterized pretty much all of them that way (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4413684&postcount=164)?

[psikeyhackr]

When do you plan to show that any "law of physics" was broken?

Still waiting (please start a new thread if you ever plan to back up your BS).
.
I don't intend to drop in here regularly enough to follow a thread of my own. You guys aren't worth that much time. I just come in when I feel like it and have the time.

When are morons going to figure out it has already been shown? They just keep coming up with endless shallow excuses.

The lower part of the building would tend to stay in place. The event CANNOT BE ANALYZED in detail without accurate distribution of mass information. But ALL skyscrapers must get stronger and therefore heavier going down. My toothpicks DO NOT GET STRONGER going down. But the toothpicks with mass stopped the falling weight A LOT FASTER with mass than without. 17.75 broken without and 6.64 broken with.

Anyone that actually understands Newtonian physics should figure out the obvious conclusions. But of course this would not have dragged on for SEVEN YEARS if it did not involve a lot of morons with delusions of intellectual adequacy.

They just can't figure out who they are. :D :D

Link me to the video of your model and I will consider building it. I provided sufficient information for anyone to build mine. It is not even expensive. Too much for all of our engineering schools I presume. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXAerZUw4Wc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0kUICwO93Q

psik

[nicepants]

The lower part of the building would tend to stay in place.

And the upper part would tend to keep falling.

The event CANNOT BE ANALYZED in detail without accurate distribution of mass information. But ALL skyscrapers must get stronger and therefore heavier going down. My toothpicks DO NOT GET STRONGER going down. But the toothpicks with mass stopped the falling weight A LOT FASTER with mass than without. 17.75 broken without and 6.64 broken with.


Based on the results of your experiment we can conclude that your model constructed of toothpicks was not an accurate representation of the WTC towers.

I can stack 4 matchbox cars on top of each other without damaging them...does that mean that full size cars should behave the same way?

[johnny karate]

When are morons going to figure out it...

When they realize toothpick models and Youtube videos have nothing to do with structural engineering.

[Slayhamlet]

I ran a poll on it here some time ago. There were two votes in the debunker-turned-truther category, but neither of them cared to post anything in the thread despite repeated requests. I was left with the conclusion that two truthers had lied.

Dave

You should have made the poll non-anonymous. Or did you?

[JihadJane]

Now here's a question.

How many folks in the 'debunking' or...legitimate scientific community switched camps TO 9-11 Truth?

*crickets*

Thought so.

C'mon, Donuts, you only waited two seconds for the answer. Is that really fair?

How many folks in the legitimate scientific community concern themselves with politics?

*crickets*

Thought so.

[twinstead]

C'mon, Donuts, you only waited two seconds for the answer. Is that really fair?

How many folks in the legitimate scientific community concern themselves with politics?

*crickets*

Thought so.

Well, you have a point; indeed the 911 truth movement is ALL about politics and not about "truth", isn't it?

[Pink Booties]

I think that there is a big difference between other conspiracies (moon hoax, JFK) and the proliferation of the 9/11 Truth Movement - the internet....**snip**



At the time I write this, VespaGuy has 911 posts. I am freaking OUT

[Pink Booties]

911 "truth" has the basic problem of coming off as unAmerican. You can believe the stuff if you want, but you have to be sure of your audience if you wish to air such controversial views.

I know if someone started claiming that stuff in my hearing I'd break 'em off somethin'.

[JihadJane]

Well, you have a point; indeed the 911 truth movement is ALL about politics and not about "truth", isn't it?

Yes, the repetitive daily dance between "the 911 truth movement" and the 911 truth debunker movement ("911's Twoo Movement") is all about politics.

[leftysergeant]

.
I don't intend to drop in here regularly enough to follow a thread of my own. You guys aren't worth that much time. I just come in when I feel like it and have the time.

When are morons going to figure out it has already been shown? They just keep coming up with endless shallow excuses.

This from someone who thinks that the toothpicks represent even vaguely any part of the towers.

The towers fell because a whole lot of mass piled up on the floor trusses and broke them, allowing the perimeter columns to fall away. You washers weighed the same from the top of the slide to the bottom. The mass piling up on the floors INCREASED progressively. Get that idea through your head and stop calling people who think things out and reach different conclusions from yours morons. It makes you look like a troll.

[JihadJane]

The towers fell because a whole lot of mass piled up on the floor trusses and broke them, allowing the perimeter columns to fall away.

Does quoting from the bible make you feel better?

[psikeyhackr]

This from someone who thinks that the toothpicks represent even vaguely any part of the towers.

The towers fell because a whole lot of mass piled up on the floor trusses and broke them, allowing the perimeter columns to fall away. You washers weighed the same from the top of the slide to the bottom. The mass piling up on the floors INCREASED progressively. Get that idea through your head and stop calling people who think things out and reach different conclusions from yours morons. It makes you look like a troll.
.
So explain why so many more toothpicks were broken without masses compared to with masses.

That compared toothpicks to toothpicks. But if stationary mass slows things down and stops the falling mass then why don't we know the TONS of STEEL and TONS of CONCRETE on every level of the towers after SEVEN YEARS?

People that claim to know physics trying to deny obvious physics. I used toothpicks but my falling mass was only 3.8 ounces. Ridicule has so much effect on physics doesn't it? Maybe the ridicule just advertises the stupidity of the person doing it.

Finished testing the wheels of those T-34 tanks yet? ROFL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXAerZUw4Wc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0kUICwO93Q

psik

[psikeyhackr]

When they realize toothpick models and Youtube videos have nothing to do with structural engineering.
.
When things fall down that means something about the structural engineering must have failed. It is very difficult to test falling objects that weight more than 100 tons.

Especially in my apartment. :D

The toothpicks dealt with 3.8 ounces quite well.

So why don't you explain why the stationary masses on the toothpicks resulted in fewer broken toothpicks than without? Conservation of momentum would not have anything to do with it by any chance now, would it? So why don't we know the TONS of STEEL and TONS of CONCRETE on every level of the towers after SEVEN YEARS?

Why hasn't a genius like you been demanding that information?

psik

[psikeyhackr]

The lower part of the building would tend to stay in place.
And the upper part would tend to keep falling.
.
THE HELL YOU SAY!

You mean there would be a collision between two masses? Complicated masses made up of thousands of components that would bend and break and engage in all sorts of immoral behavior?

Well I guess we need to know the DISTRIBUTION OF MASS in those two masses to resolve this Newtonian conflict of cosmic proportions. :D :D

So where is the data? In fact The Great RYAN MACKEY demands it to verify those SCALED MODELS. :D :D

psik

[beachnut]

911Truth is like a dumbed-down version of Bigfoot. Bigfoot has always been fiction. 911 has a reality side of 19 terrorists killing pilots and flying planes into buildings. Complex plot for 911Truth dolts to grasp, two steps too many; Bigfoot has no reality side save non-existence. 911Truth comes up with a plot so complex two thousand steps are not enough?

10 years? 911Truth is like bigfoot, Elvis, Apollo hoax, jfk CT, aliens, flat earth, dumbed-down cult, stupid idea club, dirt dumb delusion contest. They cannot fall lower in the pit of ignorance with out great efforts. Beam weapons, nukes, thermite, super thermite, and thousands of people in on the murder. What crazy ideas are not used by the idiotic movement of this century? Look at the cult members posting off topic now with no evidence they drank the kool-aid and now repeat freely mindless rants of stupid.

911Truth never had evidence and evolved from day one into a dirt dumb conspiracy theorist club for the dumbed-down special paranoid fringe group who love fiction to rule their lives. Oops, I am just like 911Truth. Darn it. But...
But I like my fiction in movies and books, not clouding my reality of an event; 911Truth has evolved into a club for apologizing for terrorists.

[leftysergeant]

.
So explain why so many more toothpicks were broken without masses compared to with masses.

And you have not expalined to what part of the towers your toothpicks are supposed to correspond. The floor slabs? The brackets holding the trusses to the perimeter columns?

Also, your washers are a constant mass, being slowed by each collision.

The rubble arriving on each floor was of INCREASING weight, as a dynamic load.

Thus, I fail to see how any of that crap with the washers is at all relevant to the collapse.

[nicepants]

The lower part of the building would tend to stay in place.
And the upper part would tend to keep falling. .
THE HELL YOU SAY!

Actually, that's what Inertia says.


You mean there would be a collision between two masses? Complicated masses made up of thousands of components that would bend and break and engage in all sorts of immoral behavior?

Well I guess we need to know the DISTRIBUTION OF MASS in those two masses to resolve this Newtonian conflict of cosmic proportions. :D :D

All we really need to know is...could the top floor of that lower mass support the weight and impact force of the upper mass?

[nicepants]

.
The toothpicks dealt with 3.8 ounces quite well.


As explained above, your toothpick model (which I doubt you even actually constructed) is not an accurate representation of a 110 story steel-framed skyscraper.

[psikeyhackr]

As explained above, your toothpick model (which I doubt you even actually constructed) is not an accurate representation of a 110 story steel-framed skyscraper.
.
ROFLMAO

Why don't you explain that brilliant conclusion about construction?

Actually, that's what Inertia says.

It's called sarcasm.

Like my video didn't demonstrate inertia. LOL I haven't found any video even similar.

You people need to come up with psychological BS since you can't come up with anything of substance.

Construction of that was a piece of cake compared to the impact one. The only problem was the toothpicks breaking off and getting caught between the washers and the dowel.

It wasn't an attempt to be a representation of a 110 story building. It was a demonstration of the effect of stationary mass in a collapse. It is the comparison with and without mass that matters. It shows the relevance of knowing the distribution of stationary masses in the supposed building collapse. Of course that info is also necessary for Ryan Mackey's scaled model.

psik

[johnny karate]

When things fall down that means something about the structural engineering must have failed. It is very difficult to test falling objects that weight more than 100 tons.

Especially in my apartment. :D

Then I guess it's a good thing actual structural engineers aren't limited to things found in your apartment when doing their analyses.

The toothpicks dealt with 3.8 ounces quite well.

So why don't you explain why the stationary masses on the toothpicks resulted in fewer broken toothpicks than without? Conservation of momentum would not have anything to do with it by any chance now, would it? So why don't we know the TONS of STEEL and TONS of CONCRETE on every level of the towers
after SEVEN YEARS?

Since the scope of your understanding of complex science seems to not extend beyond half-ass "experiments" you conduct with whatever household items are handy, I'd love to hear your theories on astrophysics and quantum mechanics as demonstrated with an ice cube and some shoe polish.

[DGM]

[QUOTE=psikeyhackr;4599558].
I don't intend to drop in here regularly enough to follow a thread of my own. You guys aren't worth that much time. I just come in when I feel like it and h

[leftysergeant]

Construction of that was a piece of cake compared to the impact one. The only problem was the toothpicks breaking off and getting caught between the washers and the dowel.

And on that the value of your whole emonstration turned to crap. You built an arresting mechanism into the structure that was not there in the towers. You have a solid mass entangling the next floor down, gaining no mass unto itself in the process, thus exerting the same KE throiughout.

In this time/space continuum, the mass was loosely aggregated and increasing and the debris which it knocked loose joined the march to the bottom unimpeded as the floor-truss-to-bracket-to-perimeter-column joints failed.

It wasn't an attempt to be a representation of a 110 story building. It was a demonstration of the effect of stationary mass in a collapse.

Then it is irrelevant to WTC.

[ozeco41]

....In this time/space continuum, the mass was loosely aggregated and increasing and the debris which it knocked loose joined the march to the bottom unimpeded as the floor-truss-to-bracket-to-perimeter-column joints failed.... ...and it started something like this simplified model of the outer office space (I have one with even worse graphics to explain the core :blush: )
http://conleys.com.au/webstuff/globalstart.jpg
...Then it is irrelevant to WTC.... he may not like the concept of "relevancy" OR judgements as to what is irrelevant ;)

[psikeyhackr]

And on that the value of your whole emonstration turned to crap. You built an arresting mechanism into the structure that was not there in the towers. You have a solid mass entangling the next floor down, gaining no mass unto itself in the process, thus exerting the same KE throiughout.

In this time/space continuum, the mass was loosely aggregated and increasing and the debris which it knocked loose joined the march to the bottom unimpeded as the floor-truss-to-bracket-to-perimeter-column joints failed.

Then it is irrelevant to WTC.
.
Edited for civility
I explained that problem in the video and what I did to fix it.

So I am supposed to argue with someone that doesn't pay attention but plays with T-34 wheels. :D :D

psik

[psikeyhackr]

Since the scope of your understanding of complex science seems to not extend beyond half-ass "experiments" you conduct with whatever household items are handy, I'd love to hear your theories on astrophysics and quantum mechanics as demonstrated with an ice cube and some shoe polish.
.
ROFLMAO

I'm supposed to be impressed by someone who can just type at a computer and can't build models demonstrating Newtonian physics but then mentions astrophysics and quantum mechanics.

Mathematics is not physics. Even if the equations are correct they are worthless without the correct data.

Frank Greening did a great job of demonstrating that.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3667265&postcount=316

psik

[ozeco41]

Whilst F Greening is "on the right side" his paper is simply wrong.

Thus, for this simple case, the merged floors continue their downward path with a velocity equal to half the initial velocity. In using the law of conservation of momentum in this way it is tacitly assumed that the impulse delivered by the impact is sufficient to rupture not only the vertical columns supporting the impacted floor but also the steel truss supports that span the gap between the outer perimeter wall and the inner core of the building.

The global collapse did not "rupture...the...columns", as shown by clear visual evidence for the outer tube columns AND did not rupture more than a proportion if any of the core columns. Sorry Mr Greening. You are on the "right side" but the premise is wrong.

And it makes the same false assumption that many "truther" posters rely on - see Heiwa's "Challenge"; Chandlers videos; Szamboti's papers and Seffens. Same false premise. On both sides of the "Great Divide". :):D;):confused:

[leftysergeant]

.
Edited for civility

I explained that problem in the video and what I did to fix it.

So I am supposed to argue with someone that doesn't pay attention but plays with T-34 wheels. :D :D

psikYour over-simplification also does not account forthe effect of the perimeter columns' leaning outward under the pressure of the falling and shifting debris flow and pulling on the brackets.

Can you only think in straight lines?