Dozens killed at Great White show

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/02/21/deadly.nightclub.fire/index.html

Dozens of people are dead and 150 seriously injured as a pyrotechnic display sets a club's walls on fire during a Great White show.

Initial reports are that the pyrotechnic device was unlicensed.

[Tmy]

Ive been there a number of times. I saw Quite Riot there last year (great show by the way). Its a poplular place to go laugh at has been 80's bands.

Whos the dumbass who used pyros in the place. They call it a night club but in reality its nothing more than your mid sized sports bar, complete with pool tables and such. There's only one clear way out of the place too. Thats why so many people got stuck.

They are trying to figure out who gave permission to use the pyros.

[Agammamon]

Today I had to either verify visually or call up all of my personell because the sub base I uuork on uuas uuorried that some of our people uuere there.

[Galadriel]

Per Jack Russell, Great White's singer, the pyro was okayed by the club manager, but one of the stage techs said it was way too much. By all reports, the place went up so fast people couldn't get out. Great White's guitarist and a DJ at a rock station in Providence are among the missing.

The lawyers are already rubbing their hands in glee, no doubt ... :rolleyes:

[richardm]

Originally posted by Galadriel
By all reports, the place went up so fast people couldn't get out.

According to someone who was there with a camcorder, it went from anxiously-looking-at-bit-of-fire-on-stage to total inferno in around 3 minutes. Scary.

[subgenius]

"Then panic broke out, according to videographer Brian Butler, who was taping the rock concert for a story on nightclub safety."

Ironic.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Galadriel

The lawyers are already rubbing their hands in glee, no doubt ... :rolleyes:
A very disappointing comment.

[Psi Baba]

Death toll is up to 86. Club owner now denying permission was ever given to band to use pyrotechics (of course).

My question is even though the club was supposedly in compliance with the fire code (although I'm sure the code doesn't allow the use of pyrotechnics), the interior of the club went up like flash paper; sprinklers were not required because the building was under some threshold for square footage (even capacity was 300); there were no fire extinguishers within easy reach; people didn't seem to aware of the other fire exits; the main exit was down a corridor and down a flight of steps. This place was a disaster waiting to happen. And it happened. What kind of fire code is that? It seems like that needs to be revamped seriously.

[Galadriel]

Originally posted by subgenius

A very disappointing comment.

Disappointing, perhaps, but unfortunately true. Considering that the club is pointing fingers at the band and the band is pointing back and the body count is rising, I'm surprised we haven't heard from a lawyer yet.

The whole situation is tragic.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Galadriel


Disappointing, perhaps, but unfortunately true. Considering that the club is pointing fingers at the band and the band is pointing back and the body count is rising, I'm surprised we haven't heard from a lawyer yet.

The whole situation is tragic.
It was the "glee" part of your post that disappointed me. Believe it or not lawyers are no worse than the general population. I don't think anyone, for any reason, is gleeful over this.

[Solitaire]

Originally posted by richardm
By all reports, the place went up so fast people couldn't get out.
According to someone who was there with a camcorder,
it went from anxiously-looking-at-bit-of-fire-on-stage to
total inferno in around 3 minutes. Scary.
No. Not fast, that's the normal speed of a fire.
Most buildings are designed to keep the heat
of a fire in and flash-over in a few minutes.

[Aoidoi]

There's already at least 2 civil lawsuits pending in the Chicago club mess, I assume there will be more in both places. Odd that the biggest couple of death tolls that I can recall from such things came within a week.

Who needs terrorists when we've got clubs like these?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Tmy
Ive been there a number of times. I saw Quite Riot there last year (great show by the way). Its a poplular place to go laugh at has been 80's bands.

Whos the dumbass who used pyros in the place. They call it a night club but in reality its nothing more than your mid sized sports bar, complete with pool tables and such. There's only one clear way out of the place too. Thats why so many people got stuck.

They are trying to figure out who gave permission to use the pyros.

Yeah, I have been there too. I haven't seen any live shows there in years.

That place used to be a restaraunt. If I am not mistaken it was built around 1975-1976. Anyway, you can imagine all the lard packets in the ceiling, the walls and everywhere else from 20 years of cooking greasy hamburgers and french-fries. When that class-C ordinance ignited the wall behind the band, all that fat and grease was an accelerant from hell.

JK

[Galadriel]

Originally posted by subgenius

It was the "glee" part of your post that disappointed me. Believe it or not lawyers are no worse than the general population. I don't think anyone, for any reason, is gleeful over this.

Then obviously you haven't been watching Fox News. Between this and the oil refinery fire in New York, they're positively orgasmic over there today. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Galadriel


Then obviously you haven't been watching Fox News. Between this and the oil refinery fire in New York, they're positively orgasmic over there today. :rolleyes:

Now, if they could only find a way to blame Democrats for it all.

[American]

Good going, Spinal Tap. Idiots.

Originally posted by American
Good going, Spinal Tap. Idiots.

Yup. Having played nothing BUT dives like this all my life, my first reaction was "What idiot is setting off fireworks on a little stage like this, in a little club like this?"

It's looking like the blame is going to center around the band. Should be an interesting Connie Chung tonight.

The band is in big trouble. From CNN:


" But Great White lead singer Jack Russell said, "Our tour manager set that up with the club."

Right now all the jaws of all the pro musicians here are dropping. The tour manager???? Tour managers are notorious for screwing things up! There's no WAY that that should be the only way the club knew about pyrotechnics on the stage. Half the time these guys can't even get the promotion straight!

I think the band is gonna take this one right between the eyes.

Edited to add: I'll bet Russell cancels his Connie Chung appearance tonight. If I were his lawyer, no WAY would I let him go on.

[Ian Osborne]

Death toll now 95 and rising. I didn't even realise Great White were still together...

[renata]

Originally posted by Galadriel


Disappointing, perhaps, but unfortunately true. Considering that the club is pointing fingers at the band and the band is pointing back and the body count is rising, I'm surprised we haven't heard from a lawyer yet.

The whole situation is tragic.

It is tragic. I heard on the radio that first suits are coming in. Among other, obvious defendants (band, promoters, club owners, fire inspector, foam manufactuer) there are deep pocket targets such as Clearchannel communications, owner of the radio station which aired promotions for the show, and Annheuser Busch- not sure why they were included- maybe because people were drunk and could not escape, but the story did not indicate a reason.

It really is tragic, 99 people dead, and there a really are limited funds for this from those with direct responsibility. I figure insurance will pay limits for the first few plaintiffs, and others will have to go without. There have been suggestion of a federal fund, similar to the one created for victims of 9/11. Indeed, I heard an official state the impact to Rhode Island from this fire was equivalent to 9/11 in NY. I agree families have to be compensated, but who should pay for all of it? Guilty parties will exhaust quickly. Should people who have some connection to the tragedy pay, such as the radio station? Should it be the tax payers? Should victims do without? I do not know. If we do have a federal fund in this case, what is to stop a fund created for smaller disasters? Should all people who get seriously injured or relatives of the deceased get compensation from the government if there are no funds to cover for their loss? I honestly do not know.

And on a lawyer bashing note- Part of me is upset that of the limited funds, 40% will go to plaintiff attorneys. I know they are needed in this case, because it is so large and complicated, but still.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by renata


It is tragic. I heard on the radio that first suits are coming in. Among other, obvious defendants (band, promoters, club owners, fire inspector, foam manufactuer) there are deep pocket targets such as Clearchannel communications, owner of the radio station which aired promotions for the show, and Annheuser Busch- not sure why they were included- maybe because people were drunk and could not escape, but the story did not indicate a reason.

It really is tragic, 99 people dead, and there a really are limited funds for this from those with direct responsibility. I figure insurance will pay limits for the first few plaintiffs, and others will have to go without. There have been suggestion of a federal fund, similar to the one created for victims of 9/11. Indeed, I heard an official state the impact to Rhode Island from this fire was equivalent to 9/11 in NY. I agree families have to be compensated, but who should pay for all of it? Guilty parties will exhaust quickly. Should people who have some connection to the tragedy pay, such as the radio station? Should it be the tax payers? Should victims do without? I do not know. If we do have a federal fund in this case, what is to stop a fund created for smaller disasters? Should all people who get seriously injured or relatives of the deceased get compensation from the government if there are no funds to cover for their loss? I honestly do not know.

And on a lawyer bashing note- Part of me is upset that of the limited funds, 40% will go to plaintiff attorneys. I know they are needed in this case, because it is so large and complicated, but still.
Easy to blame lawyers.
No one will admit responsibility without being forced to. Human nature.
Everyone was at fault in this situation, and they all need to be held responsible. The American way. Blame everyone else.
Why aren't they talking about the guy who lit the fuse? Think he was qualified/licensed to put on a pyrotechnics show?

[renata]

Originally posted by subgenius

Easy to blame lawyers.
No one will admit responsibility without being forced to. Human nature.
Everyone was at fault in this situation, and they all need to be held responsible. The American way. Blame everyone else.
Why aren't they talking about the guy who lit the fuse? Think he was qualified/licensed to put on a pyrotechnics show?

I did not blame the lawyers. However, after all those responsible pay up, there still won't be money for most victims. Say one million for each dead person- 99 million, plus millions for the survivors that were injured. A usual liability policy has a one million limit. So collect from the owners, the band, foam manufacturer, pyrothechnic guys, etc- the parties that are directly responsible- maybe 10-15 policies, 10-15 million. Lawyers get 40% of that. The victims have to make do the the rest. That is why deep pockets get targeted. My question was, given the limited respurces of the parties directly responsible, who should the money come from? The beer supplier at a bar? A radio station running ads for the band? How are they at fault?

Where should the money come from?

[fishbob]

Where should the money come from?

Everyone was at fault in this situation, and they all need to be held responsible. Why should money come from anywhere? This was a tragic event. Money will not fix that. Sometimes the lawsuits are just too sick. None of the families deserve the grief they will be subjected to by the lawsuit process.

[Questioninggeller]

The band is at fault for lighting the pyro with or without permission.

But it is up to the club to make sure all exits are clear.

In my day working with these promoters, they don't take any considerations for hazards. They block exits with roadcases, they cahin the doors (to prevent people from sneaking in), they allow pyro when it is not legal, they give booze to minors, ect.

Hopefully people (mainly the promoters) will take concerts more serously. I worked a show 4 weeks ago that the lighting truss FELL ON THE CROWD, and the speakers stacks were pulled down by a pissed off crowd... what happened to the lighting company, promoter, sound companies, ect. Nothing... not a thing.

[Psi Baba]

It's amazing how people seemed to be so much more concerned with the civil aspect (ie $$$) of this situation than the criminal aspect. Somebody better eventually rot in prison for 99 counts of manslaughter (not the mention the hundreds of other counts of bodily harm/grevious injury, etc). Placing so much focus on those marginally responsible only lets those actually responsible off the hook. If it turns out to be the band, and they spend the rest of their lives in prison, maybe that will send a message to other bands. If it turns out to be the club owners, and they spend the rest of their lives in prison, maybe other club owners will be more attentive to what is going on in their establishments.

[Tmy]

Why should anyone go to jail? It was an accident. If one person died there wouldnt be this witch hunt to toss people in jail, but when you end up wh 100 dead, people want someone to pay.