Conspiracy theorists should study the Triumvirate.

[Eddie Dane]

I've noticed that CT's who believe in shady Cabals running things, have a weird concept of how power works.
They seem to think that there is steady group of people who can hold on to power for ever. And that the power sharing deals they have go on for ever.
I'm talking about the Illuminati for instance, and the Masons etc.

Well, the best example I know of a shady cabal taking control of a powerful country is the Triumvirate.

Here you had three guys take control of the Roman empire through a combination of politics, networking, military force, spying, bribing, intimidating, defaming etc.

But the defining character of their power sharing was mistrust.
They all assumed that one of them would want ultimate power, and they eyed each other nervously to see who would make the first move.
And failing a first move, they would look for a first sign of weakness in order to make the first move themselves.

In the case of the Roman triumvirate, the players were two generals and one wealthy business guy.

The whole thing came apart when the business guy (Crassus) decided he wanted to be a general too, bought himself an army and promptly got himself killed in the first battle.
This left the two generals Pompey and Ceasar to compete.
Pompey had been married to Ceasars daughter, making conflict unlikely. but she had recently died in childbirth.

The whole thing unraveled into a horrible civil war, which was eventually won by Ceasar.
He then celebrated by shagging Cleopatra senseless and made his way back to Rome.

And he had it: ultimate power.

For about a month. Then his associates ended his reign in history's most famous group-acupuncture session, right there on the senate floor.

No person, or group can keep that much control over so many events for such a long time.
Life is about competition. from plants to insects, to sperm-cells, to lovers, to business partners, to politicians, to gangs, to companies, to countries.

[Caustic Logic]

People learn from History. There've been other Julius' who jump up and take over, but the Crassus' and Pompeys of history have learned techniques for compromise and cooperation to check the Julius' and give themselves the closest chance of holding onto power, if not forever, for as long as possible.

I don't know, that's off the top of my head.

There are Fasci in the Congress chambers! !!11!!!!!11

[Malkuth]

Thanks for the well documented example of a culture of conspiratorialism in history, Eddie.

I would ask you, and others, what makes you think that this type of thing does not occur today, when it's been shown to be a constant and unrelenting, almost a defining feature of human history?

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Wake up sheeple! You can't still believe the triumvirate or Caesar was ever the real power in Rome.

[JihadJane]

The Mafia seem to do okay.

[Horatius]

Thanks for the well documented example of a culture of conspiratorialism in history, Eddie.




Yeah, except for that pesky little issue of everybody and his slave knowing exactly what they were doing.

[Dave Rogers]

Thanks for the well documented example of a culture of conspiratorialism in history, Eddie.

That "whoosh" sound is the point of Eddie's post passing over your head.

Dave

[six7s]

That "whoosh" sound is the point of Eddie's post passing over your head.Twas probably inaudible above the dull, repetitive thuds of forehead on brick

:p

[Malkuth]

None of which ever answers my question.

[Dave Rogers]

The answer is that this sort of thing does still happen today, though usually in a rather less terminal manner, which is why there isn't a long-standing wide-ranging conspiracy to rule the world. Basically, rich and powerful people fight like cats in a sack whenever their short-term interests aren't keeping them from each other's throats. I rather think that was the whole point of the OP.

Dave

[Eddie Dane]

The answer is that this sort of thing does still happen today, though usually in a rather less terminal manner, which is why there isn't a long-standing wide-ranging conspiracy to rule the world. Basically, rich and powerful people fight like cats in a sack whenever their short-term interests aren't keeping them from each other's throats. I rather think that was the whole point of the OP.

Dave

That correctly sums up my point.

JJ mentioned the Mafia. yes, the Mafia is real.
But they are not believed by the CT's to have the power ascribed to: NWO, Masons, Jews, Illuminati etc.

[JihadJane]

That correctly sums up my point.

JJ mentioned the Mafia. yes, the Mafia is real.
But they are not believed by the CT's to have the power ascribed to: NWO, Masons, Jews, Illuminati etc.

How do you know?

[Dave Rogers]

JJ mentioned the Mafia. yes, the Mafia is real.

And, if reports are anything to go by, functions in a manner very similar to that outlined in the OP.

Dave

[dudalb]

Actually, the triumvirate coming to blows was the fault of Titus Pullo.

[Malkuth]

Which mafia you talkin 'bout, Willis?

[Father Dagon]

People learn from History. There've been other Julius' who jump up and take over, but the Crassus' and Pompeys of history have learned techniques for compromise and cooperation to check the Julius' and give themselves the closest chance of holding onto power, if not forever, for as long as possible.

I don't know, that's off the top of my head.

There are Fasci in the Congress chambers! !!11!!!!!11And in the Swedish Police Coat of Arms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polisen_vapen_bra.svg) too.

And speaking of the Cosa Nostra; there's one thing they fear more than anything: Popular resistance. I think that there was a popular resistance against their land-lease in the 50's. Nothing political or against organized crime per se. Only a general discontent. But the Cosa Nostra was terrified.

But what would a more or less popular resistance against the boogeymen of the CT:ers accomplish? Oh nothing, just an encore of the horrors of the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany.

[Bobert]

Thanks for the well documented example of a culture of conspiratorialism in history, Eddie.

I would ask you, and others, what makes you think that this type of thing does not occur today, when it's been shown to be a constant and unrelenting, almost a defining feature of human history?
I dont think you got Eddie's point.
It seemed to sail right over you but I admire your ability to cling to your delusions.

[Donal]

The Mafia seem to do okay.

The same mafia that is constantly killing each other or informing on each other?

[dudalb]

I dont think you got Eddie's point.
It seemed to sail right over you but I admire your ability to cling to your delusions.

The thing about historical actual conspiracies is that they involed very few people, had limited aims, and ended up with the plotters turning on each other.

[dudalb]

Yeah, except for that pesky little issue of everybody and his slave knowing exactly what they were doing.


That is one of the things I liked about the Miniseries "Rome": It showed that people were fully aware of what was going on.
My favorite bit is how the tone of the public newsreader in the show kept changing whenver the power shifted.

[Caustic Logic]

The same mafia that is constantly killing each other or informing on each other?

I think she means that they've managed to survive okay despite this.

[Donal]

They are still around, but they aren't very powerful. And it really isn't a secret who is in charge of them.

[Horatius]

That is one of the things I liked about the Miniseries "Rome": It showed that people were fully aware of what was going on.
My favorite bit is how the tone of the public newsreader in the show kept changing whenver the power shifted.



My favorite part was Pullo asking permission to take some peaches before he killed Cicero. So civilized!

[JihadJane]

Conspiracy theorists should study the Triumvirate.

Critical thinkers about conspiracy should study the current financial heist, starting here:

'Moyers Journal: Maddoff Was A Piker -- America's Big Banks Are a Far Larger Fraudulent Ponzi Scheme'

http://preview.tinyurl.com/de8g8m


Fraudulent banks could not have successfully operated their scam without the collusion of the state.

[Eddie Dane]

I think she means that they've managed to survive okay despite this.

Usually they are just parasites on society and the economy.

However, I think I've come across a few examples where one could perhaps speak of a shadow government.

I'm reading up on these cases an will put them up for discussion at some point.

[INRM]

Caustic Logic makes a good point. People learn from history, and people bent on enormous unchecked power would learn from all the mistakes that the Triumverate, and various other totalitarian dictators made so they would be far more successful.

Possibly nothing lasts forever, but a totalitarian government, particularly a world government could last a very very long time.


INRM

[zaphod2016]

Just posting some quick props for my boy Eddie Dane for making such an excellent thread.

Suggestion for follow-up: the short-lived Empire of Napoleon

[Eddie Dane]

Just posting some quick props for my boy Eddie Dane for making such an excellent thread.

Suggestion for follow-up: the short-lived Empire of Napoleon

Hey thanks man:o

I used to think you were pretty out there when you first started posting here.
But that quickly turned around and I've enjoyed your posts for a long time.

[zaphod2016]

Hey thanks man:o

I used to think you were pretty out there when you first started posting here.
But that quickly turned around and I've enjoyed your posts for a long time.

I *was* pretty out-there when I started posting here, but a few months on JREF has squashed a lot of my inner-woo and helped me strengthen my critical thinking.

Some real awesome folks around these parts. Happy to be part of it.

[Doctor Evil]

By the way, there was also a second Triumvirate, which was a formal alliance. (In contrast to the first one, which was an informal one.)

Broadly speaking, it also supports the OP point, except that one may argue whether it was shady enough or not. It was not that secret, but they still could, and did, outlawed people just to get their hands on their property.

The alliance did not last that long past the stage where external enemies were dead. (Lasted a few years but only due to geographic separation. Octavian in Rome, Anthony in the east.)

This further supports the notion that very strong people, which are not accountable to their actions, do not get along well.

[Caustic Logic]

Caustic Logic makes a good point. People learn from history, and people bent on enormous unchecked power would learn from all the mistakes that the Triumverate, and various other totalitarian dictators made so they would be far more successful.

Possibly nothing lasts forever, but a totalitarian government, particularly a world government could last a very very long time.


INRM

Cool, thanks. It's as relevant as it is.

I *was* pretty out-there when I started posting here, but a few months on JREF has squashed a lot of my inner-woo and helped me strengthen my critical thinking.

Some real awesome folks around these parts. Happy to be part of it.

Awww, well isn't this a little hugfest. Kidding, good sentiments around.

Dr. Evil might understand, the main reason for this post is my last one put me at 666, and that creeped me out so I just had to post one more. :)
Suddenly it seems crepe is spelled with two es, so it sounds like I just gorged at IHOP. :p

[Doctor Evil]

Dr. Evil might understand, the main reason for this post is my last one put me at 666, and that creeped me out so I just had to post one more. :)
Suddenly it seems crepe is spelled with two es, so it sounds like I just gorged at IHOP. :p

I was shaking my head ruefully while reading this. You should have embraced your post number, and in fact, avoid posting to preserve it.




(More seriously, its just another number, who cares :p)