Prisonplanet NO LONGER believes 9-11 was an Inside Job

[MikeW]

They were 'documenting the event', that's what they said. They could only do so if they knew in advance that it was about to happen.
Anyone who picked up a camera on that day might say they were "documenting the event". It does not in any sense show they had advance knowledge. That has to be just about the most feeble argument truthers ever make (and they make a lot).

[SteveAustin]

Anyone who picked up a camera on that day might say they were "documenting the event". It does not in any sense show they had advance knowledge. That has to be just about the most feeble argument truthers ever make (and they make a lot).

You are purposely leaving out large portions of this incident...

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/arrested_israelis2.html

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/forget.html

and from this one I quote from an article quoted there ...

"However, sources close to the investigation said they found other evidence linking the men to the bombing plot. "There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted," the source said. "It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park."

Sources also said that bomb-sniffing dogs reacted as if they had detected explosives."

[SteveAustin]

You do realize, Nazi, that a lot of people, most of whom presumably aren't joooos "documented the event," by filming and taking pictures right? Did all of those people also know about the event in advance and take part in planning it?

Damn, got beat to it.

You keep calling anyone that disagrees with you a nazi and you also are making fun of jews.

you realize this is a transparent #32 from that list of "38 ways to win an argument" as well as the usual #38 itself which is quite common here at JREF.

You and many other OCTopie here keep trying to claim that ALL 9/11 truth activists are anti-semites when you are the ones that keep insulting jews.

Us 9/11 truth activists only question the actions of the israeli government and their mossad. How is questioning the isreali government or it's "secret service" anti-semetic? Please explain this, then maybe I can enlighten you as to what a real semite actually is.

[Cuddles]

Stop the bickering and personal attacks and keep it on topic.

[dtugg]

You keep calling anyone that disagrees with you a nazi and you also are making fun of jews.

you realize this is a transparent #32 from that list of "38 ways to win an argument" as well as the usual #38 itself which is quite common here at JREF.

You and many other OCTopie here keep trying to claim that ALL 9/11 truth activists are anti-semites when you are the ones that keep insulting jews.

Us 9/11 truth activists only question the actions of the israeli government and their mossad. How is questioning the isreali government or it's "secret service" anti-semetic? Please explain this, then maybe I can enlighten you as to what a real semite actually is.

The only twoofer here that I've ever called a Nazi is 9/11-investigator. That's because he really is one. He is an anti-semite and a Holocaust denier.

[9/11-investigator]

Actually, one of your Dutch pols, Geert Wilders (with whom you likely agree on other issues), says this about the dumb TV show you linked:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,516195,00.html

When I say that I am glad that the PVV (Partij van de Vrijheid, Freedom Party) is the largest party in the Netherlands, than that is because I know why my fellow country-men vote for him (anti-immigration); but that does not mean that I trust Wilders. I fear he is a neocon, a Dutch sort of Sarkozy, who is more interested in fighting Islam then in keeping them out in the first place. He is married to a Hungarian Jewess, he spend a lot of time in Israel and the Dutch secret service started an investigation against him because he frequented the Israeli Embassy in The Hague a bit too much. And he has very good contacts with 'New York money men'. But I do trust the people on his list and what is more important: he has the potential of mobilizing a large part of Holland against Muslim immigration (meaning invasion). If he turns out to be a traitor later on, too bad, but at least everybody will know that a large part of the population is against giving our country away and willing to vote against it. We can get rid of him then.

But he doesn't have a clue about 9/11 and if he had (big Israel friend that he is) he wouldn't say. But that's ok. I thought it was muslims too who did 9/11 until 2005 or so and that suited me fine because it proved that Muslims are hostile against the West, giving people like me ammo against diversity mongers like Beachnut in order to prevent that my country becomes a third world cesspool.

But now that I know that Israel did it, that's fine as well because now we can go after those that inflicted diversity upon us in the first place.

Cann't loose.

[Alt+F4]

Us 9/11 truth activists only question the actions of the israeli government and their mossad. How is questioning the isreali government or it's "secret service" anti-semetic?

What does the actions of the Israeli government or the Mossad have to do with 9/11 "truth"? Facts please.

[MikeW]

You are purposely leaving out large portions of this incident...
No, I'm responding to a point you and 9/11 Investigator made:

But think about that for a minute, they said they were there to film the events, which means they knew what was going to happen...

As I said, it means nothing of the kind, no matter what else you try to add.

[Alt+F4]

But now that I know that Israel did it, that's fine as well because now we can go after those that inflicted diversity upon us in the first place.

You should probably start your investigation at the store where Mossad buys it's home safes for switching purposes. Next find the dance studio where they get their lessons. I'm sure you'll do a super-duper job.

[9/11-investigator]

First of all, they are speaking in Hebrew, so unless you speak Hebrew you don't even know how accurate the translation was.

I'm sure that you can do the translation for us.

Second, they didn't say that their purpose for being in New York was to film 9/11.

Neither do I. They were there to prepare a mass murder.


I think it is pretty clear from that their meant that their purpose for filming was to document the event.

I agree with that. They filmed to have a good time with their buddies in Mossad HQ in Herzliya/Israel.

That doesn't mean they knew about it before hand. If they were filming before the first plane hit, that might be one thing, but I've seen no evidence of that. Plenty of people had cameras and filmed/took pictures.

Sure, plenty of people were taking pictures but nobody was celebrating and high-fiving. Nobody understood what was happening except that a horrific event had just happened with thousands of people getting killed. But these satanic Israelis loved every minute of it, the bastards. :mad:
But you don't care about Americans getting killed, do you.
You only care about that the truth doesn't come out and that you guys did it.

[dtugg]

I'm sure that you can do the translation for us.

Please, Nazi. Just because I find your lies disgusting doesn't make me an Israeli or a jooo. In fact, the vast majority of people here think you are disgusting.

How many black people born in Arizona are Israelis or jooos for that matter, in your expert opinion? Do you hate black people too?

[9/11-investigator]

OPEN MESSAGE TO THE MODS:

I noticed that again quit a few posts have been deleted that were of some length and quality, meaning that another hour or more of my valuable time has been wasted.
You should understand that a forum is nothing without posters. In this way you scare them away with this mindless deleting. The topic of this thread is ludicrous anyway, so why don't you let us freely talk? What's the purpose of it? It's fine (but unnessecary) to edit uncivil posts, but why deleting?

As it is now I rather go back to my Dutch forum. At least there is total freedom of speech with no deleting or editing whatsoever. I prefer that over this soviet style censorship. I am not going to write for the dustbin.

www.vrijspreker.nl (freespeaker.nl)

I wish my opponents & the mods all the best,

Goodbye.

[Alt+F4]

OPEN MESSAGE TO THE MODS:

I noticed that again quit a few posts have been deleted that were of some length and quality, meaning that another hour or more of my valuable time has been wasted.

I blame Mossad.

[SteveAustin]

The only twoofer here that I've ever called a Nazi is 9/11-investigator. That's because he really is one. He is an anti-semite and a Holocaust denier.

What is your definition of an "anti-semite" and what exactly about the holocaust is he denying? If he denies something about the holocaust then you can prove that what he is denying about it actually happened right?

[beachnut]

OPEN MESSAGE TO THE MODS:

I noticed that again quit a few posts have been deleted that were of some length and quality, meaning that another hour or more of my valuable time has been wasted.
... The topic of this thread is ludicrous anyway, so why don't you let us freely talk? What's the purpose of it? It's fine (but unnessecary) to edit uncivil posts, but why deleting?

As it is now I rather go back to my Dutch forum. At least there is total freedom of speech with no deleting or editing whatsoever. I prefer that over this soviet style censorship. I am not going to write for the dustbin.

www.vrijspreker.nl (http://www.vrijspreker.nl) (freespeaker.nl)

I wish my opponents & the mods all the best,

Goodbye.
Off topic again; good for you. Your bring bigoted delusions to a skeptic forum; irony

Your dirt dumb posts were not deleted! You are the master race researcher why does the truth hide from you? Why can't you figure out 911? now we know

What is your definition of an "anti-semite" and what exactly about the holocaust is he denying? If he denies something about the holocaust then you can prove that what he is denying about it actually happened right? You b off topic 2.

[SteveAustin]

No, I'm responding to a point you and 9/11 Investigator made:



As I said, it means nothing of the kind, no matter what else you try to add.

So because YOU say it means nothing of the kind then it means nothing of the kind? LOL

Nice try, I guess, but lets go back to my post you quoted here...

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4627084&postcount=252

and take a look at what you said...

Anyone who picked up a camera on that day might say they were "documenting the event". It does not in any sense show they had advance knowledge. That has to be just about the most feeble argument truthers ever make (and they make a lot).

Your statement COULD be true if it wasn't for all the other facts about these isrealis, all the other facts which as I said you left out of the "incident" or left out of this discussion.

So what I added was relevant to this particular point which is why you are doing your best to avoid it.

[SteveAustin]

Off topic again; good for you. Your bring bigoted delusions to a skeptic forum; irony

Your dirt dumb posts were not deleted! You are the master race researcher why does the truth hide from you? No wonder you can't figure out 911.

You b off topic 2. Seem delusion believers think alike. are you another neoNAZI? Get on topic please. What other prisonplanet ideas have proved their doltish articles are contradicting each other; the OP subject?

Oh that's right, I forgot this was the JREF forums where you can be called a nazi and an anti-semite and a holocaust denier, even when doing so is off-topic but if you ask why you are being called that then that's when it's pointed out you are off-topic...

I guess you could also view that as #18 on that list of 38

[Dave Rogers]

"However, sources close to the investigation said they found other evidence linking the men to the bombing plot. "There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted," the source said.

Now why on earth would an urban removals' company want something like that?

Dave

[Disbelief]

Oh that's right, I forgot this was the JREF forums where you can be called a nazi and an anti-semite and a holocaust denier, even when doing so is off-topic but if you ask why you are being called that then that's when it's pointed out you are off-topic...

I guess you could also view that as #18 on that list of 38

But if you look closer, you would realize that the person doing the name calling has been suspended for a month. You will also notice that many posts have been moved to AAH.

[Dave Rogers]

OPEN MESSAGE TO THE MODS:

I noticed that again quit a few posts have been deleted that were of some length and quality, meaning that another hour or more of my valuable time has been wasted.

OPEN MESSAGE TO 9/11-INVESTIGATOR:

Your posts haven't been deleted. They've been moved to a forum called Abandon All Hope, in the Members Only section, where they will remain as an example of inappropriate use of the forum. However, finding this out for yourself might have required some rudimentary investigative skills.

Dave

[SteveAustin]

Now why on earth would an urban removals' company want something like that?

Dave

You lurkers out there please pay attention to Dave here, because this is the kind of stuff i've been trying to show you all with my links to "38 ways to win an argument" further up on this post and on another thread the link to "how to debunk just about anything"

Here Dave is using numbers 3, 14, 33, and especially 17 and 26

Here let's take a closer look at what Dave quoted, but we will instead quote the entire text and not leave out any interesting bits...

"However, sources close to the investigation said they found other evidence linking the men to the bombing plot. "There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted," the source said. "It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park."

Sources also said that bomb-sniffing dogs reacted as if they had detected explosives. The FBI seized the van for further testing, authorities said. Sources said the van was stopped as it headed east on Route 3, between the Hackensack River bridge and the Sheraton hotel. As a precaution, police shut down Route 3 traffic in both directions after the stop and evacuated a small roadside motel near the Sheraton."

and in the other article I linked to that had the relevant quote here is what it also says...

"The police and FBI field agents became very suspicious when they found maps of the city with certain places highlighted, box cutters (the same items that the hijackers supposedly used), $4700 cash stuffed in a sock, and foreign passports. Police also told the Bergen Record that bomb sniffing dogs were brought to the van and that they reacted as if they had smelled explosives. (11)

The FBI seized and developed their photos, one of which shows Sivan Kurzberg flicking a cigarette lighter in front of the smouldering ruins in an apparently celebratory gesture. (12)"

So Dave you left out very important information there didn't you!! Why would you do that?

[beachnut]

Oh that's right, I forgot this was the JREF forums where you can be called a nazi and an anti-semite and a holocaust denier, even when doing so is off-topic but if you ask why you are being called that then that's when it's pointed out you are off-topic...

I guess you could also view that as #18 on that list of 38
off topic again

Can you make one post to the OP?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/military-whistleblower-claims-she-witnessed-flight-93-shootdown-order.html (http://www.prisonplanet.com/military-whistleblower-claims-she-witnessed-flight-93-shootdown-order.html)

They posted this article, about a supposed military witness that a shoot-down order was made for Flight 93.

So, they are telling us that Flight 93 was actually hijacked by terrorists!!

Not only that, but the DOD actually decided to attempt to shoot it down!!

Now, if the DOD and the "NWO" was actually flying the "non-existant" plane, they would not try to shoot it down. They would have let it hit its target.

But, the DOD actually did see 93 as a threat, and did actually try to intercept and destroy it.

What does this mean? It means there was a plane. It means the Bush administration did see it as a threat, and they actually did try to shoot it down.

So.....according to Prisonplanet and Alex Jones:

9-11 was NOT an Inside Job!!

:D

Prisonplanet spews lies like all of 911Truth. After a while the beam weapons did it, the nuke did it, the thermite did it, and the explosives did it refute each other and people finally wake up form their ignorance of 911 and figure out 19 terrorist did it. Prisonplanet makes up false news, or implication of false ideas and finally they refute themselves with their faulty logic and presenting each new smoking gun of stupid ideas on 911.

You could post on topic or start your own tread for you pet delusions on 911. But you choose to criticize how we are able to see your ideas are pure delusions on 911. You post on how we post instead of supporting your 911 ideas with evidence because you have no evidence to support your ideas on 911 so we get #38! Wow, you prove you have no evidence by going off topic; here comes #38 again instead of your massive pile of evidence to prove your delusions on 911. Because you have no evidence.

What about prisonplanet; why are their news stories always delusional?

[T.A.M.]

You lurkers out there please pay attention to Dave here, because this is the kind of stuff i've been trying to show you all with my links to "38 ways to win an argument" further up on this post and on another thread the link to "how to debunk just about anything"

Here Dave is using numbers 3, 14, 33, and especially 17 and 26

Here let's take a closer look at what Dave quoted, but we will instead quote the entire text and not leave out any interesting bits...

"However, sources close to the investigation said they found other evidence linking the men to the bombing plot. "There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted," the source said. "It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park."

Sources also said that bomb-sniffing dogs reacted as if they had detected explosives. The FBI seized the van for further testing, authorities said. Sources said the van was stopped as it headed east on Route 3, between the Hackensack River bridge and the Sheraton hotel. As a precaution, police shut down Route 3 traffic in both directions after the stop and evacuated a small roadside motel near the Sheraton."

and in the other article I linked to that had the relevant quote here is what it also says...

"The police and FBI field agents became very suspicious when they found maps of the city with certain places highlighted, box cutters (the same items that the hijackers supposedly used), $4700 cash stuffed in a sock, and foreign passports. Police also told the Bergen Record that bomb sniffing dogs were brought to the van and that they reacted as if they had smelled explosives. (11)

The FBI seized and developed their photos, one of which shows Sivan Kurzberg flicking a cigarette lighter in front of the smouldering ruins in an apparently celebratory gesture. (12)"

So Dave you left out very important information there didn't you!! Why would you do that?

Lurkers are so 2006. Nobody cares enough about the truth movement to lurk anymore.

TAM:)

[MikeW]

So because YOU say it means nothing of the kind then it means nothing of the kind? LOL
Okay, let's look at your post.

Speaking of the dancing israelis, did you see the video of 3 of them? The one i'm talking about is after they got home to israel 3 of them were interviewed on an israeli talk show and they said the reason they were in NY that day was to film the events of 9/11, to film the attacks.

I can find this video if anyone really wants, though it has been removed from youtube hundreds of times without reason.

But think about that for a minute, they said they were there to film the events, which means they knew what was going to happen...then they celebrated the destruction of the towers with high fives and raising their lighters like you do at a concert!!!

Hmmmmm
Two key points here.

First, "they said the reason they were in NY that day was to film the events of 9/11, to film the attacks." If they had actually said they were in the city specifically to film the event then that would be suspicious, but they didn't. Your own source shows you've distorted what they said to make it more incriminating.

"The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." (26)
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html

Second, you say "they said they were there to film the events, which means they knew what was going to happen...". This is also false: saying our "purpose was to document the event" does not in any sense imply foreknowledge.

So, wrong both times. But just like a typical truther, you can't admit it, and instead want to widen the discussion and include points that weren't even in the post I commented on.

As for who is deliberately ignoring information, that's 9/11 truth - as usual.

I don't see truthers pointing out that Maria, the witness who reported them "high fiving", said she saw their van park some time after she started watching the burning WTC - so they weren't there filming before the attacks.

And while truthers love to quote this first report:

Three arrested with van full of explosives
4:27:11 AM

Reports from New York are saying three people have been arrested with a van of explosives.

The van was stopped along the New Jersey turn-pike near the George Washington Bridge.

It was not clear why police stopped the van but when they did they found it was laden down with tonnes of explosives.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/12/story23429.asp

They ignore this one, even though it appeared only minutes later:

Police confirm arrests but deny explosives find
4:34:43 AM

NYPD officers have confirmed the arrest of three men on the New Jersey turn-pike.

However officials denied any explosives were found in the van.

Officials declined to say why exactly the men had been arrested.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/12/story23430.asp

Your own source is a perfect example of how 9/11 "truth" is very careful to ignore inconvenient comments. Here's What Really Happened:

Police also told the Bergen Record that bomb sniffing dogs were brought to the van and that they reacted as if they had smelled explosives.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html

Here's the actual paragraph from their source with the bit they snipped out:

Sources also said that bomb-sniffing dogs reacted as if they had detected explosives, although officers were unable to find anything. The FBI seized the van for further testing, authorities said.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/12/WTC_Mysteries3.html

Wow, What Really Happened just can't be trusted, can they?

Then later they quote a famous Dan Rather video clip, and provide a download:

"...two suspects are in FBI custody after a truckload of explosives was discovered around the George Washington Bridge ... The FBI ... says enough explosives were in the truck to do great damage to the George Washington Bridge."
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html

Yet they don't mention that Rather retracted the claim just a little later:

As with the State Department car-bombing, Rather had to backtrack on this story as well: "Marcia Kramer of WCBS-TV, our CBS-owned and -operated station in New York, reported some time ago that the FBI had in custody two suspects caught with a pickup truck of explosives around the George Washington Bridge; now further checking on that story [reveals] that other law enforcement officials in New York said they knew nothing about it, and now Jim Stewart is saying that FBI headquarters in Washington knows nothing about it. We'll have to put that in a long line of things that's under the 'Well, we're skeptical now.' Maybe it's true and maybe it isn't." There is no record in the Nexis database of Rather telling his audience that it actually wasn't true.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1090

Then back to the "dancing Israelis", What Really Happened tell us this:

The Jewish weekly The Forward reported that the FBI finally concluded that at least two of the detained Israelis were agents working for the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, and that Urban Moving Systems, the ostensible employer of the five Israelis, was a front operation. This was confirmed by two former CIA officers, and they noted that movers' vans are a common intelligence cover. (23).
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html

Actually the quote from The Forward in their source says "Eventually, The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives" - two, not "at least" two. And WRH ignore the part of the same article where, inconveniently, it says "there is no evidence to conclude they had advance knowledge of the terrorist attacks":

Despite the denials, sources tell ABCNEWS there is still debate within the FBI over whether or not the young men were spies. Many U.S. government officials still believe that some of them were on a mission for Israeli intelligence. But the FBI told ABCNEWS, "To date, this investigation has not identified anybody who in this country had pre-knowledge of the events of 9/11."

Sources also said that even if the men were spies, there is no evidence to conclude they had advance knowledge of the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11. The investigation, at the end of the day, after all the polygraphs, all of the field work, all the cross-checking, the intelligence work, concluded that they probably did not have advance knowledge of 9/11," Cannistraro noted.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=123885&page=4

And of course most truthers really don't want to talk about how these "Mossad agents" drew attention to themselves in 2004 by announcing a lawsuit against the US (http://www.kokhavivpublications.com/2004/israel/09/0409141656.html) for the way they were treated, hardly what you'd expect if they were involved in the attacks.

But then truthers don't care about providing a full account, do they, Steve? Anything goes as long as it supports "inside job".

[SteveAustin]

off topic again

Can you make one post to the OP?



Prisonplanet spews lies like all of 911Truth. After a while the beam weapons did it, the nuke did it, the thermite did it, and the explosives did it refute each other and people finally wake up form their ignorance of 911 and figure out 19 terrorist did it. Prisonplanet makes up false news, or implication of false ideas and finally they refute themselves with their faulty logic and presenting each new smoking gun of stupid ideas on 911.

You could post on topic or start your own tread for you pet delusions on 911. But you choose to criticize how we are able to see your ideas are pure delusions on 911. You post on how we post instead of supporting your 911 ideas with evidence because you have no evidence to support your ideas on 911 so we get #38! Wow, you prove you have no evidence by going off topic; here comes #38 again instead of your massive pile of evidence to prove your delusions on 911. Because you have no evidence.

What about prisonplanet; why are their news stories always delusional?

Here let me do what you do to post on topic...

prisonplanet does not spew lies, they spread truth (after the relevant part in your post that corresponds to what I just wrote is where the rest (%98 of your post) was off-topic, but because you started with that you can claim it was on topic...so, here's the rest of my post now that I am on-topic.

Your entire post was nothing more than a combination of #'s 1, 3, 6, 7 and especially 32, and of course always #38.

Now how did we get to this point? You OCTopie keep insulting us truthers and then using all sorts of techniques to scare, confuse and obfuscate and I point those out. Why would I bother arguing facts when all you do is use techniques that are intended to subvert the "debate"?

Why did I join this thread? because an OCTopus made a false statement that was countered by a truther, then all you OCTopie jumped on this truther to obfuscate this point and then tried to blame this same truther for going "off-topic" when it was one of you OCTopie who went off-topic. I came in to point that out, which I did above. Then the discussion continued to divert from the OP with more insults and name calling to which I again shined the light of truth on and here we are again.

[T.A.M.]

I think there may be a section of the forum dedicated to discussions on debating techniques. This is the 9/11 CT subforum...try to stay on topic.

TAM:)

[SteveAustin]

Okay, let's look at your post.


Two key points here.

First, "they said the reason they were in NY that day was to film the events of 9/11, to film the attacks." If they had actually said they were in the city specifically to film the event then that would be suspicious, but they didn't. Your own source shows you've distorted what they said to make it more incriminating.


The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." (26)
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...eisraelis.html

the subject they are talking about is terrorism and then they say their purpose was to document the event. That is a plain admission that you refuse to admit.

Second, you say "they said they were there to film the events, which means they knew what was going to happen...". This is also false: saying our "purpose was to document the event" does not in any sense imply foreknowledge.

Not in any sense? Really? Is english your first language? It's not difficult to interpret "we were there to document the event" with "well if they were there to document the event then they must have known it was going to happen". If you have a different interpreatation then that's your opinion, but to say "does not in any sense imply foreknowledge" is being deceitful.

So, wrong both times. But just like a typical truther, you can't admit it, and instead want to widen the discussion and include points that weren't even in the post I commented on.

You are being deceitful by claiming that your opinion, your interpretation is the one and only possible interpretation. And if you look at the entire incident as a whole your interpretation seems to fall through the holes of logic.

As for who is deliberately ignoring information, that's 9/11 truth - as usual.

I don't see truthers pointing out that Maria, the witness who reported them "high fiving", said she saw their van park some time after she started watching the burning WTC - so they weren't there filming before the attacks.

From http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html

Witnesses saw them jumping for joy in Liberty State Park after the initial impact (5). Later on, other witnesses saw them celebrating on a roof in Weehawken, and still more witnesses later saw them celebrating with high fives in a Jersey City parking lot. (6)

Seems to me like they were spotted on numerous occassions. Tell me can you be more specific as to who saw what when? Take the entire incident into account from that day and everything that happened afterwards, including their confession that they were there to document the event. (document it while celebrating the destruction of the towers).

And while truthers love to quote this first report:

They ignore this one, even though it appeared only minutes later

Police confirm arrests but deny explosives find
4:34:43 AM

NYPD officers have confirmed the arrest of three men on the New Jersey turn-pike.

However officials denied any explosives were found in the van.

Officials declined to say why exactly the men had been arrested.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/...story23430.asp

WOW, anonymous "officials" deny any explosives were found in the van. Tell me who were these officials and how did they prove that no explosives were found in the van? And why would these anonymous "officials" decline to say why these israelis had been arrested? Interesting that that report also list the israelies simply as "men" and not "israelies", had they been palestinian you can be sure they would have said "palestinian".

Your own source is a perfect example of how 9/11 "truth" is very careful to ignore inconvenient comments. Here's What Really Happened:



Here's the actual paragraph from their source with the bit they snipped out:



Wow, What Really Happened just can't be trusted, can they?:

LOL, and you found the rest of that quote how? Oh let me guess, you clicked on the link there on that What Really Happened article. What's that, he didn't try to hide the whole quote from you by not sourcing his information!!!

Then later they quote a famous Dan Rather video clip, and provide a download:



Yet they don't mention that Rather retracted the claim just a little later:


Mmmm what was the Dan Rather video clip about? (I can't access that from this site and don't recall what it was about) If it is about this topic at hand which is the dancing israelies then the retraction of Rather's is not about the dancing israelies in any way shape or form. It is about a car bomb that exploded outside the State Department in Washington...which is something I have never heard as being relevant to 9/11 truth because I have never heard any 9/11 truthers claim this.



Then back to the "dancing Israelis", What Really Happened tell us this:



Actually the quote from The Forward in their source says "Eventually, The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives" - two, not "at least" two.

You are playing word games again, at least 2 is still 2. WRH did not say that 3 of them were found to be mossad agents, WRH said at least 2 of them were. So you are playing word games to try and discredit a source you do not like.

Hmmmm I wonder which numbers from "38 ways to win an argument" could apply to your response here?

And WRH ignore the part of the same article where, inconveniently, it says "there is no evidence to conclude they had advance knowledge of the terrorist attacks":

Yes because you are going to ignore the evidence there is (like their confession to being there to document the event for one) so that you can claim there is no evidence...just like this source does!

And of course most truthers really don't want to talk about how these "Mossad agents" drew attention to themselves in 2004 by announcing a lawsuit against the US (http://www.kokhavivpublications.com/2004/israel/09/0409141656.html) for the way they were treated, hardly what you'd expect if they were involved in the attacks.

LOL now you are trying to tell me what the motivation is for suspects to be doing something. Tell me, why is it hardly something you'd expect if they were involved in the attacks? I mean they are safe at home in isreal where they cannot be touched. So what fear do they have?

But then truthers don't care about providing a full account, do they, Steve? Anything goes as long as it supports "inside job".

Well it seems obvious that it is the OCTopie that don't care about providing a full account, but you make a decent attempt to try and turn the tables don't you.

All you lurkers, can you figure out just how many of those tactics from the "38 ways to win an argument Mike has used here?

[SteveAustin]

I think there may be a section of the forum dedicated to discussions on debating techniques. This is the 9/11 CT subforum...try to stay on topic.

TAM:)

Yes but that would allow you guys to use the subversive tactics without being able to counter them.

The way to counter the tactics you guys use is not to argue with you but simply point out what you are doing, plain and simple. So if you are going to use these tactics in a thread then my pointing these tactics out are relevant to that thread.

If you do not use those tactics I will not have to point them out.

But you would love for me to not be able to point these out anymore because then you could get away with them with impunity.

[MikeW]

Not in any sense? Really? Is english your first language? It's not difficult to interpret "we were there to document the event" with "well if they were there to document the event then they must have known it was going to happen". If you have a different interpreatation then that's your opinion, but to say "does not in any sense imply foreknowledge" is being deceitful.
Good grief. "Our purpose was to document the event" can plainly be said by anyone, with foreknowledge of the event or not. It does not imply foreknowledge in itself.

And I'm stopping right there, because the fact that you'll defend such a blatant fiction, and act as an apologist for the lies of What Really Happened, and complain about others cherry-picking quotes when you do worse yourself, tells me you're not worth another second of my time.

[beachnut]

Yes but that would allow you guys to use the subversive tactics without being able to counter them.

...
Off topic again. Wow, you have no evidence so you make up stuff about the posters here. We are using subversive tactic (facts and evidence, logic and sound judgment, knowledge, physics, engineering, science) and you present 911Truth (lies, false information, delusions, hearsay, flawed logic, manufactured evidence, cherry-picked quotes, implied lies, fantasy, junk science, and dirt dumb stupid ideas on 911).

No fooling you with facts and evidence you have the doltish delusion of 911Truth and you will win!


This is a skeptic forum and you bring lies and delusions as your bible. You lost before you showed up and now you are mad because we are skeptics; you have fantasy ideas you make up and they are not real and we see it. You can't fool people who really practice skeptical critical thinking; they make you prove it and you bring hearsay and cherry-pick quotes to support what you want to be true; not the truth. You made a mistake stop posting off topic. Bring your A game with evidence not hearsay, lies and made up opinions based on junk. Many of the people here are engineers and even more are better than engineers, they are laypeople who can think logically and make sound judgment based on gathered knowledge based on facts and evidence. You gather lies and delusions and regurgitate them freely as if you did the thinking. Think for yourself and stop being a pawn for 911Truth.

If you have some evidence go post it in the correct thread; get on topic and prove you have something to help others understand 911 instead of spreading lies.

Why does prisonplanet present stories as the gospel and then refute them with other smoking gun stories? Go look at OP, reply to OP.

[tsig]

the subject they are talking about is terrorism and then they say their purpose was to document the event. That is a plain admission that you refuse to admit.



Not in any sense? Really? Is english your first language? It's not difficult to interpret "we were there to document the event" with "well if they were there to document the event then they must have known it was going to happen". If you have a different interpreatation then that's your opinion, but to say "does not in any sense imply foreknowledge" is being deceitful.



You are being deceitful by claiming that your opinion, your interpretation is the one and only possible interpretation. And if you look at the entire incident as a whole your interpretation seems to fall through the holes of logic.



From http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html



Seems to me like they were spotted on numerous occassions. Tell me can you be more specific as to who saw what when? Take the entire incident into account from that day and everything that happened afterwards, including their confession that they were there to document the event. (document it while celebrating the destruction of the towers).



WOW, anonymous "officials" deny any explosives were found in the van. Tell me who were these officials and how did they prove that no explosives were found in the van? And why would these anonymous "officials" decline to say why these israelis had been arrested? Interesting that that report also list the israelies simply as "men" and not "israelies", had they been palestinian you can be sure they would have said "palestinian".



LOL, and you found the rest of that quote how? Oh let me guess, you clicked on the link there on that What Really Happened article. What's that, he didn't try to hide the whole quote from you by not sourcing his information!!!




Mmmm what was the Dan Rather video clip about? (I can't access that from this site and don't recall what it was about) If it is about this topic at hand which is the dancing israelies then the retraction of Rather's is not about the dancing israelies in any way shape or form. It is about a car bomb that exploded outside the State Department in Washington...which is something I have never heard as being relevant to 9/11 truth because I have never heard any 9/11 truthers claim this.





You are playing word games again, at least 2 is still 2. WRH did not say that 3 of them were found to be mossad agents, WRH said at least 2 of them were. So you are playing word games to try and discredit a source you do not like.

Hmmmm I wonder which numbers from "38 ways to win an argument" could apply to your response here?



Yes because you are going to ignore the evidence there is (like their confession to being there to document the event for one) so that you can claim there is no evidence...just like this source does!



LOL now you are trying to tell me what the motivation is for suspects to be doing something. Tell me, why is it hardly something you'd expect if they were involved in the attacks? I mean they are safe at home in isreal where they cannot be touched. So what fear do they have?



Well it seems obvious that it is the OCTopie that don't care about providing a full account, but you make a decent attempt to try and turn the tables don't you.

All you lurkers, can you figure out just how many of those tactics from the "38 ways to win an argument Mike has used here?

Why don't you try and answer some of the arguments instead of pointing at links and posting numbers.

What kind of dance were they doing? The Jews have lots of dances was it a dance of Triumph (guilty) or a dance of Sorrow. (not guilty).

[tsig]

Good grief. "Our purpose was to document the event" can plainly be said by anyone, with foreknowledge of the event or not. It does not imply foreknowledge in itself.

And I'm stopping right there, because the fact that you'll defend such a blatant fiction, and act as an apologist for the lies of What Really Happened, and complain about others cherry-picking quotes when you do worse yourself, tells me you're not worth another second of my time.

By his reasoning if I saw a tornado and decided to film it then I must have caused the tornado because my " purpose was to document the event".

[lapman]

Good grief. "Our purpose was to document the event" can plainly be said by anyone, with foreknowledge of the event or not. It does not imply foreknowledge in itself.

And I'm stopping right there, because the fact that you'll defend such a blatant fiction, and act as an apologist for the lies of What Really Happened, and complain about others cherry-picking quotes when you do worse yourself, tells me you're not worth another second of my time.
I think it's more a language issue. The twoofers are taking it way too literally to mean that they planned ahead of time to drive to that specific spot to tape the attack instead of they were video taping from that spot because they just happened to be driving by it at the time of the first crash so they stopped there.

[MikeW]

I think it's more a language issue. The twoofers are taking it way too literally to mean that they planned ahead of time to drive to that specific spot to tape the attack instead of they were video taping from that spot because they just happened to be driving by it at the time of the first crash so they stopped there.

I don't think that's even a literal interpretation, though. The line is "our purpose was to document the event": what might someone call "the event"?

One answer might be the whole thing, impacts and all - that shows foreknowledge.

But someone might also say "the event" to describe the burning towers, the collapsing buildings, the aftermath, more.

So, is what they said consistent with foreknowledge? Yes. Does it imply it? No, it's also consistent with their story: they went on to their building roof first, after the attacks, then went to the parking lot to stand on their van, as a better place to take photos. And "document the event".

Of course we might also wonder why Mossad agents would draw such attention to themselves in order to take pictures from far away, when much better images were available on TV (and would turn up from professional photographers later). But hey, 9/11 "truth" isn't known for making any sense, and this is no exception.

[Dave Rogers]

All you lurkers, can you figure out just how many of those tactics from the "38 ways to win an argument Mike has used here?

And the answer is: No. 0. "Doing your research, understanding the issues, and being right."

Dave

[9/11-investigator]

Cannot resist the temptation to invest 5 minutes in this post:

Kudos for Obama to acknowledge that torture was applied in extorting 'confessions' from 9/11 suspects (and forbidding it for the future):

http://www.nu.nl/algemeen/1951300/verdachte-911-onderging-183-keer-waterboarding.html

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,619868,00.html

This makes the case for debunkers even weaker then it already was.

Gist: KSM was tortured almost 200 times.

[Thunder]

Cannot resist the temptation to invest 5 minutes in this post:

Kudos for Obama to acknowledge that torture was applied in extorting 'confessions' from 9/11 suspects (and forbidding it for the future):

http://www.nu.nl/algemeen/1951300/verdachte-911-onderging-183-keer-waterboarding.html

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,619868,00.html

This makes the case for debunkers even weaker then it already was.

Gist: KSM was tortured almost 200 times.

don't derail the thread. this topic is dealt with in the Politics section. you do know that the 9-11 section isn't the only on JREF...right????

[zorro99]

Cannot resist the temptation to invest 5 minutes in this post:

Kudos for Obama to acknowledge that torture was applied in extorting 'confessions' from 9/11 suspects (and forbidding it for the future):

http://www.nu.nl/algemeen/1951300/verdachte-911-onderging-183-keer-waterboarding.html

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,619868,00.html

This makes the case for debunkers even weaker then it already was.

Gist: KSM was tortured almost 200 times.

So is it your contention, then, that KSM has been unjustly arrested, tortured, and accused of a crime for which he had nothing to do?

[9/11-investigator]

don't derail the thread. this topic is dealt with in the Politics section. you do know that the 9-11 section isn't the only on JREF...right????

Your desire to keep your own thread 'on topic' is touching.

Here is a link from PP that makes it very clear that PP thinks that 9/11 was an inside job, despite the ludicrous title of this thread:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/cia-waterboarded-khalid-sheikh-mohammed-183-times.html

[9/11-investigator]

So is it your contention, then, that KSM has been unjustly arrested, tortured, and accused of a crime for which he had nothing to do?

That's indeed the case, beste boer.

[zorro99]

That's indeed the case, beste boer.

Great. What are you doing to ensure that he is not unjustly executed for the crimes to which he has been falsely accused, particularly in light of all this exonerating new evidence involving red chips, and so forth?

And I must say, your committment to ensuring that Muslims and Arabs are not unjustly discriminated for the actions of a few is truly commendable, sir.

[Mince]

Here is a link from PP that makes it very clear that PP thinks that 9/11 was an inside, despite the ludicrous title of this thread:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/cia-waterboarded-khalid-sheikh-mohammed-183-times.html


Uh, the OP (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4600083&postcount=1) was sarcasm (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm) used to highlight (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/highlight) PrisonPlanet's (http://www.prisonplanet.com/military-whistleblower-claims-she-witnessed-flight-93-shootdown-order.html) hypocrisy (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrisy), because they do believe 9/11 was an inside job and elements that are contrary to "inside job".

Just making sure you know what's going on.

[9/11-investigator]

Great. What are you doing to ensure that he is not unjustly executed for the crimes to which he has been falsely accused, particularly in light of all this exonerating new evidence involving red chips, and so forth?

Writing 'subversive' blogs (http://how911wasdone.blogspot.com) will be my contribution.

[SteveAustin]

Good grief. "Our purpose was to document the event" can plainly be said by anyone, with foreknowledge of the event or not. It does not imply foreknowledge in itself.

And I'm stopping right there, because the fact that you'll defend such a blatant fiction, and act as an apologist for the lies of What Really Happened, and complain about others cherry-picking quotes when you do worse yourself, tells me you're not worth another second of my time.

So to you the fact that at least 2 of these guys were confirmed isreali mossad agents means nothing?

Read that again and remember the mossad agents... "Our purpose was to document the event"

[SteveAustin]

Off topic again. Wow, you have no evidence so you make up stuff about the posters here. We are using subversive tactic (facts and evidence, logic and sound judgment, knowledge, physics, engineering, science) and you present 911Truth (lies, false information, delusions, hearsay, flawed logic, manufactured evidence, cherry-picked quotes, implied lies, fantasy, junk science, and dirt dumb stupid ideas on 911).

No fooling you with facts and evidence you have the doltish delusion of 911Truth and you will win!


This is a skeptic forum and you bring lies and delusions as your bible. You lost before you showed up and now you are mad because we are skeptics; you have fantasy ideas you make up and they are not real and we see it. You can't fool people who really practice skeptical critical thinking; they make you prove it and you bring hearsay and cherry-pick quotes to support what you want to be true; not the truth. You made a mistake stop posting off topic. Bring your A game with evidence not hearsay, lies and made up opinions based on junk. Many of the people here are engineers and even more are better than engineers, they are laypeople who can think logically and make sound judgment based on gathered knowledge based on facts and evidence. You gather lies and delusions and regurgitate them freely as if you did the thinking. Think for yourself and stop being a pawn for 911Truth.

If you have some evidence go post it in the correct thread; get on topic and prove you have something to help others understand 911 instead of spreading lies.

Why does prisonplanet present stories as the gospel and then refute them with other smoking gun stories? Go look at OP, reply to OP.

WOW, that's classic number 14 (along with quite a few others, especially 38 again) where you try to pretend you have won where no such victory has ever taken place.

You lost before you showed up and now you are mad because we are skeptics.

So in other words you were never even going to listen to anything a truther says because you "already know the truth and won't waste any time on investigating". WOW

you have fantasy ideas you make up and they are not real and we see it.

That would be tactic number 32 (most of your post uses this one actually) with a bit of number 14.

You can't fool people who really practice skeptical critical thinking.

See that's where you problems starts. Critical Thinking is Critical Thinking, but once you start with the premise that you are a skeptic your Critical Thinking becomes tainted and will not advance truth.

You see I am a skeptic about some things and not a skeptic about others, but I do not start off with the premise that "I am a skeptic", instead I look at the information first, analyze it and then decide. You however start with the premise that you will be a skeptic and then fit your facts around that premise.

You made a mistake

Where did I make a mistake? (Yes I know that was just another use of tactic number 14)

Bring your A game with evidence not hearsay, lies and made up opinions based on junk.

My "A game"? You are not the first person here to ask that I not continue with this line of arguing. Don't worry I understand why you do not want me to continue doing this, however I will continue doing this so long as anyone continues using those tactics (consciously or otherwise)

[Mince]

WOW, that's classic number 14 (along with quite a few others, especially 38 again)

That would be tactic number 32 (most of your post uses this one actually) with a bit of number 14.

(Yes I know that was just another use of tactic number 14)


What numbered tactic is used to indicate the lack of cogent, logical argument and illustrated by the frequent use in said argument of numbers relating to some arbitrary scale of poor debate tactics?

[johnny karate]

Mince, it's a classic number 109 to point out the stupidity of someone else's debating tactics. Therefore, 9/11 was an inside job.

[9/11-investigator]

It's amusing to see SteveAustin decomposing the dialectics of his components. The ancient greeks considered dialectics as an inferior 'art'. For people who want put dialectics in perspective as a tool in the hand of Brave New World adepts and other neocons (neo-trozkyites really), read 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' by Robert Pirsig, one of the best books I ever read. One of the key scenes (the really happened) was in the showdown between Pirsig (the Rethoric) and The Professor (the Dialectician, of the University Chicago). The Professor was Richard McKeon, the teacher of Leo Strauss, the godfather of the neocons and advocate of the 'Noble Lie'. And there the circle closes.

Keep up the good work.

[dudalb]

Writing subversive blogs Anti Semitic blogs will be my contribution.

Fixed that for you.



From 9/11 investigators blog:

But it is going to come out anyway. With devastating consequences for the current American power structure. Think of a provisional Ron Paul government after the army intervenes. Think of the events that happened in Moscow when Jeltzin took over from the communists and the Russian White House got under fire. Something similar might happen to America and something positive might come out of 9/11 after all. Let's hope that the transformation will be as smooth as it did in Russia.


:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp




http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1884048ca062020e8b.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=13773)

[twinstead]

Extremists can be so delightfully entertaining sometimes.

[SteveAustin]

It's amusing to see SteveAustin decomposing the dialectics of his components. The ancient greeks considered dialectics as an inferior 'art'. For people who want put dialectics in perspective as a tool in the hand of Brave New World adepts and other neocons (neo-trozkyites really), read 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' by Robert Pirsig, one of the best books I ever read. One of the key scenes (the really happened) was in the showdown between Pirsig (the Rethoric) and The Professor (the Dialectician, of the University Chicago). The Professor was Richard McKeon, the teacher of Leo Strauss, the godfather of the neocons and advocate of the 'Noble Lie'. And there the circle closes.

Keep up the good work.

It is amusing, and I enjoy doing it. I used to spend a lot of time arguing with OCTopie about the facts behind 9/11 but without fail all the hardcore believers used the same tactics over and over again (by far tactics #14, 32 & especially 38), and most didn't even realize what they were doing but simply thought they were being intelligent.

After a while I came to the conclusion that they are stuck in their belief system so any attempt to argue facts would be futile, I'd have better luck arguing with a brick wall. That's when I started deconstructing their tactics instead.

I'll let you and others argue the facts with the 1 or 2 OCTopie that might actually want to discuss facts and I'll just keep concentrating on pointing out what they are and are not doing to subvert the "discussion".

I have found that after you manage to deconstruct their "debate tactics" and they are left with only the facts it is much easier to show them wrong.

Don't let them confuse the arguments or scare you away or use smoke and mirrors (you know why I call them OCTopie and OCTopus? Because an octopus is a big scarry monster that wave all his many appendages around in an attempt to scare confuse and confound, and because they are Official Conspiracy Theorist). Re-read "38 ways to win an argument" and go and find "How to debunk just about anything" and read that carefully and familiarize yourself with those tactics so you can spot them in any conversation. Then when you encounter those tactics point them out, then if there are any "debating points" left after the "subversive tactics" are removed you can debate what's left.

[dudalb]

The fact that Steve Austin is making nice with an out and out Neo Nazi tells you a major reason why the 9/11 Truth movement continues to be a miserable failure: the very unsavory types it's embraces.

[johnny karate]

It seems to me someone so convinced in their belief the committers of a heinous crimes are going unpunished would have better things to do than amuse themselves with pointless bickering on an Internet message board. Like taking constructive action to see justice done, for instance.

I'm not sure what "debating tactic" I've engaged in by pointing out massive fraudulence and hypocrisy, but I'm sure someone exceedingly clever will be able to tell me.

[Mince]

...(you know why I call them OCTopie and OCTopus? Because an octopus is a big scarry monster that wave all his many appendages around in an attempt to scare confuse and confound, and because they are Official Conspiracy Theorist).

You know why I call "them" conspiracy theorists whose "facts" and beliefs have been reached without ever leaving their keyboard? Because "they" are conpiracy theorists whose "facts" and beliefs have been reached without ever leaving their keyboard. I'm just not as subtle and metaphorical as you, else I'd call you "DWK9/11WAIJREOGSYTVAAJRS"ers (Dudes Who "Know" 9/11 Was An Inside Job Relying Exclusively On Google Searches, YouTube Videos And Alex Jones' Radio Shows)ers. Anyway, what delicious irony you've produced here.

[T.A.M.]

It is amusing, and I enjoy doing it. I used to spend a lot of time arguing with OCTopie about the facts behind 9/11 but without fail all the hardcore believers used the same tactics over and over again (by far tactics #14, 32 & especially 38), and most didn't even realize what they were doing but simply thought they were being intelligent.

After a while I came to the conclusion that they are stuck in their belief system so any attempt to argue facts would be futile, I'd have better luck arguing with a brick wall. That's when I started deconstructing their tactics instead.

I'll let you and others argue the facts with the 1 or 2 OCTopie that might actually want to discuss facts and I'll just keep concentrating on pointing out what they are and are not doing to subvert the "discussion".

I have found that after you manage to deconstruct their "debate tactics" and they are left with only the facts it is much easier to show them wrong.

Don't let them confuse the arguments or scare you away or use smoke and mirrors (you know why I call them OCTopie and OCTopus? Because an octopus is a big scarry monster that wave all his many appendages around in an attempt to scare confuse and confound, and because they are Official Conspiracy Theorist). Re-read "38 ways to win an argument" and go and find "How to debunk just about anything" and read that carefully and familiarize yourself with those tactics so you can spot them in any conversation. Then when you encounter those tactics point them out, then if there are any "debating points" left after the "subversive tactics" are removed you can debate what's left.

you are so smart, I wish I could hang out with you...oh pretty please?

What debate tactic is that Stevie?

Like I said to you before, do you have anything productive (even from a truther perspective) to add to the topics, or are you merely a HI clone, here only to spin your wheels and make yourself feel better/superior?

TAM:)

[twinstead]

SteveAustin. You do realize we've been 'deconstructing' truther debate tactics for years. I wouldn't relish getting into a tit-for-tat over that one if I were you.

[Drudgewire]

It is amusing, and I enjoy doing it. I used to spend a lot of time arguing with OCTopie about the facts behind 9/11 but without fail all the hardcore believers used the same tactics over and over again (by far tactics #14, 32 & especially 38), and most didn't even realize what they were doing but simply thought they were being intelligent.

...


Don't let them confuse the arguments or scare you away or use smoke and mirrors (you know why I call them OCTopie and OCTopus? Because an octopus is a big scarry monster that wave all his many appendages around in an attempt to scare confuse and confound, and because they are Official Conspiracy Theorist). Re-read "38 ways to win an argument" and go and find "How to debunk just about anything" and read that carefully and familiarize yourself with those tactics so you can spot them in any conversation. Then when you encounter those tactics point them out, then if there are any "debating points" left after the "subversive tactics" are removed you can debate what's left.


What a load of #2. :rolleyes:

[dudalb]

I gotta point out again that the only supporter Austin has found in this thread is a Neo Nazi Jew Hater.

[zorro99]

From 9/11 investigators blog:


Quote:
But it is going to come out anyway. With devastating consequences for the current American power structure. Think of a provisional Ron Paul government after the army intervenes. Think of the events that happened in Moscow when Jeltzin took over from the communists and the Russian White House got under fire. Something similar might happen to America and something positive might come out of 9/11 after all. Let's hope that the transformation will be as smooth as it did in Russia.

What, you think writing something in your blog will make this come about?
This is your "contribution"?

Blogs are like bottoms. Everybody has one.

[9/11-investigator]

you are so smart, I wish I could hang out with you...oh pretty please?

What debate tactic is that?

Good cop, bad cop. #4028 :D

[9/11-investigator]

From 9/11 investigators blog:


Quote:


What, you think writing something in your blog will make this come about?
This is your "contribution"?

Blogs are like bottoms. Everybody has one.

Everybody kan make a blog with myname.blogspot.com in 5 minutes and put a receipe for pancakes on it indeed. But that does not count.

So what are the blogs of all the great thinkers here then. There are none.

Writing the blog and discussing it with my esteemed opponents here cost me 2 months of my life. That's a Seychelles holiday with my hourly rate.

This is more fun though.

[9/11-investigator]

http://www.bollyn.com/index.php

Bollyn elaborates on the thermite find and links it to activities carried out in the past in connection with attempts to lower the amount of asbestos in the WTC1/2 buildings.

By applying a film of super-thermite to floors and other surfaces the pulverization of the concrete could have been effected. This explains how so much concrete was pulverized. The huge amount of residual super-thermite also explains the incredibly hot fires that burned at temperatures hotter than the boiling point of iron beneath the rubble for months after the collapses.

About who did that job:

This contract was offered and the work was begun during Lew Eisenberg’s reign as head of the Port Authority. This is before Larry Silverstein obtained the leases, but during the time that the privatization process was well underway. The director of the New York privatization program was Ronald Lauder, who has very close ties to Israel’s intelligence agency, the Mossad, e.g. the Lauder school at the IDC, Mossad’s private university in Herzliya, Israel.

…

It is only a matter of time now before we discover who loaded the buildings with tons of super-thermite and how they did it. The architects of terror never thought we would get this far, but we have. The tables are now turned 180 degrees. We are no longer “conspiracy theorists” – they are. :D

Compared to the things that now are about to happen was Watergate a stroll in the park. Then a presidency was at at stake, now a complete establishment stands for it's downfall. It will be interesting to see what the 9-11 crooks will attempt to escape the executioner. Are they going to attempt the ´flight forward´? But if that fails all the gloves are really off. And they know it.

[Thunder]

Are they going to attempt the ´flight forward´? But if that fails all the gloves are really off. And they know it.

Bollyn is a coward.

But I say...bring it!!!!!!!

:mad:

[JoeyDonuts]

So what are the blogs of all the great thinkers here then. There are none.

There is more truth and honesty in my latest post "5 Movie/TV Badasses That Can Actually Use One-Liners" than can be found in the whole of your mental jackery.

http://templeofdonuts.blogspot.com

[tsig]

It's amusing to see SteveAustin decomposing the dialectics of his components. The ancient greeks considered dialectics as an inferior 'art'. For people who want put dialectics in perspective as a tool in the hand of Brave New World adepts and other neocons (neo-trozkyites really), read 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' by Robert Pirsig, one of the best books I ever read. One of the key scenes (the really happened) was in the showdown between Pirsig (the Rethoric) and The Professor (the Dialectician, of the University Chicago). The Professor was Richard McKeon, the teacher of Leo Strauss, the godfather of the neocons and advocate of the 'Noble Lie'. And there the circle closes.

Keep up the good work.

We're looking for facts and evidence and you have dialectics.

The dialectical Greeks lost out to the practical Romans.

[tsig]

Extremists can be so delightfully entertaining sometimes.

I don't mind them living in their own world, it's when they want us all to join them that I have the problem.

[JoeyDonuts]

We're looking for facts and evidence and you have dialectics.

The dialectical Greeks lost out to the practical Romans.

You ever try to load a ballista all greased up with olive oil?

Not so easy, is it?

[zorro99]

http://www.bollyn.com/index.php

…

It is only a matter of time now before we discover who loaded the buildings with tons of super-thermite and how they did it. The architects of terror never thought we would get this far, but we have. The tables are now turned 180 degrees. We are no longer “conspiracy theorists” – they are. :D

Compared to the things that now are about to happen was Watergate a stroll in the park. Then a presidency was at at stake, now a complete establishment stands for it's downfall. It will be interesting to see what the 9-11 crooks will attempt to escape the executioner. Are they going to attempt the ´flight forward´? But if that fails all the gloves are really off. And they know it.

Fine, now go away until these events come to pass, then come back and tell us you were right all along.

[Dave Rogers]

Keep up the good work.

I think I should echo this sentiment. SteveAustin has done an outstanding job here of personalising the argument, focusing on the tactics used by his opponents, reinforcing the use of those tactics by employing them himself, and generally doing everything he can think of to divert the discussions he's involved in away from rational discussion of the facts and evidence, where he knows his side can only lose. SteveAustin, if that's the victory you've been looking for, please feel free to declare it right now, then you can go back to your conspiracist friends with your head held high and proudly proclaim that your argumentum ad hominem is better researched and more clearly expounded than your opponents' argumenta ad hominem. You may notice that there are still a few unpolluted threads where relevant science and evidence are still being debated constructively, typically the ones you haven't posted in yet, but hey, you can't be everywhere.

I'm sure I'll now see a list of debating technique numbers I've used, and I'd hate to discourage any such response; after all, the first few were mildly interesting, and they may regain that status some time. It might be worth pointing out that basing one's entire participation at a skeptical discussion board on a single website of undeclared provenance, which you then assume to be a reliable arbiter of what is and is not good and proper in online debate, could perhaps be seen as one immense fallacious appeal to authority. However, your thorough and consistent use of that fallacy is no doubt another suitable subject to brag about amongst 9/11 truthers.

Dave

[twinstead]

You ever try to load a ballista all greased up with olive oil?

Not so easy, is it?

Hey, that's a normal Saturday night at the twinstead house.

[Dave Rogers]

Extremists can be so delightfully entertaining sometimes.

Entertaining extremists ROCK!

:p

Dave

[9/11-investigator]

Fine, now go away until these events come to pass, then come back and tell us you were right all along.

Why should I do that? I am here to 'document events' as they unfold. You see, I have foreknowledge of things to come.

And provide some unprompted advice in the process.

[SteveAustin]

I think I should echo this sentiment. SteveAustin has done an outstanding job here of personalising the argument, focusing on the tactics used by his opponents, reinforcing the use of those tactics by employing them himself, and generally doing everything he can think of to divert the discussions he's involved in away from rational discussion of the facts and evidence, where he knows his side can only lose. SteveAustin, if that's the victory you've been looking for, please feel free to declare it right now, then you can go back to your conspiracist friends with your head held high and proudly proclaim that your argumentum ad hominem is better researched and more clearly expounded than your opponents' argumenta ad hominem. You may notice that there are still a few unpolluted threads where relevant science and evidence are still being debated constructively, typically the ones you haven't posted in yet, but hey, you can't be everywhere.

I'm sure I'll now see a list of debating technique numbers I've used, and I'd hate to discourage any such response; after all, the first few were mildly interesting, and they may regain that status some time. It might be worth pointing out that basing one's entire participation at a skeptical discussion board on a single website of undeclared provenance, which you then assume to be a reliable arbiter of what is and is not good and proper in online debate, could perhaps be seen as one immense fallacious appeal to authority. However, your thorough and consistent use of that fallacy is no doubt another suitable subject to brag about amongst 9/11 truthers.

Dave

Dave, I'm disappointed in you. I expected something better than this from you.

That was a decent attempt to "turn the tables" on me and claim I am the one to personalize the argument and divert the discussion away from facts and evidence when anyone can easily scroll up and see who started the diversion and personalizations then see where I jumped into this discussions to point those out. Oh what's that Dave? did you miss my last detailed response to you in this thread? Trying to ignore it are you?

It might be worth pointing out that basing one's entire participation at a skeptical discussion board on a single website of undeclared provenance, which you then assume to be a reliable arbiter of what is and is not good and proper in online debate, could perhaps be seen as one immense fallacious appeal to authority. However, your thorough and consistent use of that fallacy is no doubt another suitable subject to brag about amongst 9/11 truthers.

I truly do understand why you need to be able to use your tactics. This paragraph of yours was nicely worded but is entirely meaningless gibberish intended to give the "skeptic" that one reason not to open their minds and see the truth for themselves.

My listing your subversive debate tactics using a website with a list of these tactics is just conveniant, I could just as easily label them myself but why should I when I have a convenient list. There are a whole bunch of these tactics that are not even on either of those 2 lists.

Everyone here seems so scared of having their debate tactics exposed that you are all doing your best to "discredit" my debate techniques, isn't that right Dave!! You are all spending so much time and effort trying to ridicule my debating that you can't see that what you are doing is simply reinforcing my points.

But I hit a nerve here and you cannot let this one go because you know I will continue to point these tactics out and you cannot allow this to happen, so you will continue to harp on these "debate tactics" trying to get me to use your own approved debate tactics for your opponents. Tell me Dave how exactly should I be debating with you? And who exactly is the one here trying to tell me what sort of debating tactics I can and cannot use in an online forum? (yes I did see the irony in your post when you claimed I was trying to be the "arbiter of what is and is not good and proper in online debate" while at the same time trying to tell me what is and is not good and proper in online debate.)

[johnny karate]

...and therefore 9/11 was an inside job.

[beachnut]

...
My listing your subversive debate tactics ...
Off topic as you display with ease your only debate tactic is to say someone is using subversive debate tactics. Are you saving your failed ideas on this topic for later?

You have no evidence so you claim ST is happening. You only have delusions on 911 show to be false years ago.

Poor prisonplanet is evidence free and the kind of delusions you defend by crying, "subversive debate tactics, subversive debate tactics".

Prisonplanet posts stories that refute earlier stories, each being the next smoking gun to break 911 wide open for over 7 years. Failure.

Can you make an on topic post or continue to fail?

[Disbelief]

But I hit a nerve here and you cannot let this one go because you know I will continue to point these tactics out and you cannot allow this to happen, so you will continue to harp on these "debate tactics" trying to get me to use your own approved debate tactics for your opponents. Tell me Dave how exactly should I be debating with you? And who exactly is the one here trying to tell me what sort of debating tactics I can and cannot use in an online forum? (yes I did see the irony in your post when you claimed I was trying to be the "arbiter of what is and is not good and proper in online debate" while at the same time trying to tell me what is and is not good and proper in online debate.)

Bolding mine. Evidence would be a good start. Even better, evidence that you actually understand, unlike the noise suppression you tried to use in another thread.

[Dave Rogers]

Tell me Dave how exactly should I be debating with you?

Mentioning 9/11 occasionally would be a good start.

Dave

ETA: Curse you, Disbelief!
Oops, I'm personalising the debate again.

[Disbelief]

ETA: Curse you, Disbelief!
Oops, I'm personalising the debate again.

Just so you know, my avatar is NOT me, so a voodoo doll will not work.:D

[9/11-investigator]

Discovered this tonight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2wRZa36whc

Paul Craig Roberts being a guest of Alex Jones outed himself in february as a truther (from 3:20, accepts controlled demolition). He is now the highest ranking American truther (as a former minister). Ron Paul unfortunately does not appear to have a clue regarding 9/11.

Further on in the video: black pessimism about the future of the dollar and of America as a whole.

Roberts was the man behind Reaganomics and minister in the Reagan government.

[Thunder]

He is now the highest ranking American truther (as a former minister). .

that ain't saying much.

what degrees and qualifications are required to be a Minister?

=)

[johnny karate]

The American government doesn't have "ministers". It's hard to take someone seriously when they fail to get basic information correct.

[MikeW]

Paul Craig Roberts has been talking garbage about 9/11 for years, nothing new there. Here he is in a 2006 article in American Free Press (http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/9-11__five_years_later.html), for instance.

[Thunder]

by the way, this guy sounds like an absolute lunatic. i hope he becomes leader of the truthers.

[9/11-investigator]

by the way, this guy sounds like an absolute lunatic. i hope he becomes leader of the truthers.

The GDR came crashing down without a leader in sight. Leaders are so thirties.

[Thunder]

The GDR came crashing down without a leader in sight. Leaders are so thirties.

No, I think it would be great if the truthers had a racist or a Judeophobe as their leader.

[9/11-investigator]

No, I think it would be great if the truthers had a racist or a Judeophobe as their leader.

Of course you would want that, unfortunately for you that is not the case. People like Griffin, Hoffman, Gage and Jones are all nice guys, christians, lefties.

Keep on dreaming.

[beachnut]

... People like Griffin, Hoffman, Gage and Jones are all nice guys, christians, lefties.
... These guys are idiots not Christians. They are not lefties, they are dirt dumb snake oil salesmen. You can't get much right with your racist predictions and your failed ideas on 911. Prisonplanet is like you; your posts debunk your other posts with anti-intellectual old world tripe and delusions on 911.

[Thunder]

Of course you would want that, unfortunately for you that is not the case. People like Griffin, Hoffman, Gage and Jones are all nice guys, christians, lefties.

Keep on dreaming.

you do realize we are gonna be having this exact same debate, in 2015?

[9/11-investigator]

you do realize we are gonna be having this exact same debate, in 2015?

You think there will be a U.S. left in 2015 at all? I don't think so.

http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/2009/04/21/video-dr-paul-on-secession/

Ron Paul thinks that the coming demise of the dollar will be the trigger of secession movements. I think that the denouement of 9/11 will give extra fuel to propel that process.

It's obvious that Ron Paul doesn't like my 'Jeltzin style take-over of Washington' I had in store for him and choses the other possible route to abandon the FED, the FedGov and the empire: secession. The next step will be that some of the seceeding states will regroup and erect a new American Union based on the old constitution of the Founding Fathers and libertarian principles. A sort of revival of the failed America First movement of the pre-war era. States that for demographic reasons have no particular affiliation with these kind of principles (Alabama, Atzlan south-west and others) will not follow, or allowed in for that matter. The consequence of this process will be 'segregational migrations' between the European north and the American/African south.

According to Roberts (see video a few posts back) the budget of the Obama government for 2010 contains 50% red ink. GM and Chrysler are dying. Mexico is slowly transforming into a failed state and American troops are running around in circles in some remote deserts for reasons nobody understands except for a handfull of 'Straussians' in Washington. America runs also the severe risk of loosing its army in Iraq (http://www.amconmag.com/article/2006/dec/18/00022/) if Israel starts a bombing campaign against Iran (remember that Saigon helicopter scene?). The overstretch of the FedGov is so enormous that it will implode under the weight it has to carry.

Sure Parky, I am looking forward to continue this discussion with you until 2015.

(posted on other forums as well)

[zorro99]

You think there will be a U.S. left in 2015 at all? I don't think so.

http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/2009/04/21/video-dr-paul-on-secession/

Ron Paul thinks that the coming demise of the dollar will be the trigger of secession movements. I think that the denouement of 9/11 will give extra fuel to propel that process.

It's obvious that Ron Paul doesn't like my 'Jeltzin style take-over of Washington' I had in store for him and choses the other possible route to abandon the FED, the FedGov and the empire: secession. The next step will be that some of the seceeding states will regroup and erect a new American Union based on the old constitution of the Founding Fathers and libertarian principles. A sort of revival of the failed America First movement of the pre-war era. States that for demographic reasons have no particular affiliation with these kind of principles (Alabama, Atzlan south-west and others) will not follow, or allowed in for that matter. The consequence of this process will be 'segregational migrations' between the European north and the American/African south.

According to Roberts (see video a few posts back) the budget of the Obama government for 2010 contains 50% red ink. GM and Chrysler are dying. Mexico is slowly transforming into a failed state and American troops are running around in circles in some remote deserts for reasons nobody understands except for a handfull of 'Straussians' in Washington. America runs also the severe risk of loosing its army in Iraq (http://www.amconmag.com/article/2006/dec/18/00022/) if Israel starts a bombing campaign against Iran (remember that Saigon helicopter scene?). The overstretch of the FedGov is so enormous that it will implode under the weight it has to carry.

Sure Parky, I am looking forward to continue this discussion with you until 2015.

(posted on other forums as well)

So why don't you just go away until 2015 and we can resume the conversation then?

[twinstead]

Sure Parky, I am looking forward to continue this discussion with you until 2015.


I would bet BIG money you'll just be on to your next conspiracy du jour by then.

[beachnut]

Ron Paul thinks ...

(Alabama, Atzlan south-west and others) will not follow, or allowed in for that matter. The consequence of this process will be 'segregational migrations' between the European north and the American/African south.

... of loosing its army in Iraq (http://www.amconmag.com/article/2006/dec/18/00022/) if Israel starts a bombing campaign against Iran (remember that Saigon helicopter scene?). The overstretch of the FedGov is so enormous that it will implode under the weight it has to carry.
... Is Ron Paul a bigot like you?

The European north? American/African south? How much dope do you have to smoke to come up with this tripe? Has reading Ron Paul warped your mind? Are you the one who warned I would be the last European/American left on my street soon? I am an American and look forward to diversity unlike you and your failed NAZI delusions and biased rhetoric. Does this mean we damn Yankees have to move back north and freeze our butts off? (no we will move to CA and pan for gold)

Saigon? We took our toys and went home in Vietnam. Our military is smaller today.

Just like prisonplanet you make up junk ideas and then more which refute the other people in your failed 911Truth cult.

Let me guess you don't like American/Africans?

Let me guess, you nave not visited the US? You sound like Tim McVeigh.

[9/11-investigator]

Is Ron Paul a bigot like you?

I guess that a diversity training by the ADL/SPLC was part of your education/brainwashing? And I am starting to suspect that you even don't know that Ron Paul was a republican presidential candidate during the last elections.

I am an American and look forward to diversity unlike you and your failed NAZI delusions and biased rhetoric.

There are many others looking forward to your diversity as well. That should scare the hell out of you if you have some common sense left...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0DvNCsKM88

Does this mean we damn Yankees have to move back north and freeze our butts off? (no we will move to CA and pan for gold)

As far as I am concerned you can do what you like.

Saigon? We took our toys and went home in Vietnam.

Euphemistic description for getting your ass kicked.

Our military is smaller today.

True, but the rest of the world, notably Europe and the former communist block downsized their military even more. The US pays more for their military then the rest of the planet combined. Not much longer though.

Let me guess you don't like American/Africans?

When I was a kid I liked Jimmy Hendrix, and Obama seems a likable guy. But that does not stop me from having realistic assessments about what's next on the political agenda. But according to you Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Congo, Zimbabwe, etc. never happened, right? All political entities harbouring different groups with radical different racial and/or religious identities sooner or later go down the drain. Zorro99 is about to find that out for himself the hard way. No matter how often you guys call me a 'bigot'.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=810069

Let me guess, you nave not visited the US?

I did visit Manhattan in 1990 for a week, even was on top of a tower that is no more.

[FineWine]

I guess that a diversity training by the ADL/SPLC was part of your education/brainwashing? And I am starting to suspect that you even don't know that Ron Paul was a republican presidential candidate during the last elections.



There are many others looking forward to your diversity as well. That should scare the hell out of you if you have some common sense left...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0DvNCsKM88



As far as I am concerned you can do what you like.



Euphemistic description for getting your ass kicked.



True, but the rest of the world, notably Europe and the former communist block downsized their military even more. The US pays more for their military then the rest of the planet combined. Not much longer though.



When I was a kid I liked Jimmy Hendrix, and Obama seems a likable guy. But that does not stop me from having realistic assessments about what's next on the political agenda. But according to you Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Congo, Zimbabwe, etc. never happened, right? All political entities harbouring different groups with radical different racial and/or religious identities sooner or later go down the drain. Zorro99 is about to find that out for himself the hard way. No matter how often you guys call me a 'bigot'.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=810069



I did visit Manhattan in 1990 for a week, even was on top of a tower that is no more.



Can you tell us how we got our "ass kicked" when we had no combat troops left in Vietnam? I know that invading North Vietnamese regulars beat the South Vietnamese army after we left, but your side didn't do too well against us when we were there.

[Thunder]

Sure Parky, I am looking forward to continue this discussion with you until 2015.

(posted on other forums as well)

and why, may I ask, would you do that?

[zorro99]

When I was a kid I liked Jimmy Hendrix, and Obama seems a likable guy. But that does not stop me from having realistic assessments about what's next on the political agenda. But according to you Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Congo, Zimbabwe, etc. never happened, right? All political entities harbouring different groups with radical different racial and/or religious identities sooner or later go down the drain. Zorro99 is about to find that out for himself the hard way. No matter how often you guys call me a 'bigot'.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=810069



The fact that all S Africans of all races, religions and colors stood in lines together and voted really does not bother me.

[9/11-investigator]

The fact that all S Africans of all races, religions and colors stood in lines together and voted really does not bother me.

You're a nice guy, very sympathic. You know what happens to little sheep though? They get shaven at best or end up on a plate in the worse case.

Meet the likely next president of SA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lof6XJ8b1SU

He sings: 'bring me my machine gun'.

Wonder what he is up to. I hope that our comic-book reading zorro-chap has a bullet-proof vest, seems like he is going to need it. Wasn't SA the country with the highest crime rates in the world? I'm sure that's because of all these 'nazi's' roaming the streets.

Isn't diversity beautiful!? All these different cultural habbits! So vibrant!

Take the CV of the next president:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Zuma

A very colorful CV, not boring at all!

Communist upbringing, rape & corruption charges, has had a modest number of only 4 wives (Zuma is a polygamist), of whom only one committed suicide. Beside that he has a number of 'fiancees': Zuma paid 10 cattle as lobola for Swazi Princess Sebentile Dlamini in 2002. How authentic!

You don't mind if we Europeans try to stay away from 'Oceania', as Orwell used to call Anglosphere, as much as possible. We wouldn't even try to reach the moral heights you are residing at.

[9/11-investigator]

Can you tell us how we got our "ass kicked" when we had no combat troops left in Vietnam? I know that invading North Vietnamese regulars beat the South Vietnamese army after we left,

I did something similar before, but that post went into the memory hole. I won't bother again without explicit garantees that that won't happen again. I will write longer posts only if I can recycle them on forums that do not have rigorous off-topic policies.

[Dave Rogers]

I did something similar before, but that post went into the memory hole. I won't bother again without explicit garantees that that won't happen again. I will write longer posts only if I can recycle them on forums that do not have rigorous off-topic policies.

Try starting a new thread, if there's a new subject you want to discuss. As for the posts that you claim were deleted, have you checked to see whether they were actually just moved to a different forum? If so, and there's content that would be appropriate to your new thread, you could just copy-and-paste it into a new post. You can actually do something about your problems, rather than just complain.

Dave

[beachnut]

I guess that a diversity training by the ADL/SPLC was part of your education/brainwashing? And I am starting to suspect that you even don't know that Ron Paul was a republican presidential candidate during the last elections.

There are many others looking forward to your diversity as well. That should scare the hell out of you if you have some common sense left...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0DvNCsKM88

Euphemistic description for getting your ass kicked.

When I was a kid I liked Jimmy Hendrix, and Obama seems a likable guy. But that does not stop me from having realistic assessments about what's next on the political agenda. But according to you Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Congo, Zimbabwe, etc. never happened, right? All political entities harbouring different groups with radical different racial and/or religious identities sooner or later go down the drain. Zorro99 is about to find that out for himself the hard way. No matter how often you guys call me a 'bigot'.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=810069

I did visit Manhattan in 1990 for a week, even was on top of a tower that is no more.
So you like Ron Paul, so do a lot of dirt dumb neoNAZIs. Nice try, but who did not know Ron Paul was what he is.

Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein Einstein knew your common sense matches that of a NAZI.

A video and you are scared; good for you. He will be your president first; good luck.

You proved you know zero about Vietnam. You are talking to people here who wrote papers and studied the major battles and the war. We left Vietnam and people like you, Saddam, UBL and others forgot to read history; you forgot to study the battles; you failed to do your research like you did on 911.

Your racism is exposed over and over. You are right you are just like Hitler. Failed common sense and idiotic rant like prisonPlanet you debunk and refute your own failed biased outlook. (on topic again)

Your posts - they are not gone - you need to wake up and research and stop exposing your massive lack of knowledge on 911 and other topics.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=140444 use some of your superior common sense next time.

I did something similar before, but that post went into the memory hole. I won't bother again without explicit garantees that that won't happen again. I will write longer posts only if I can recycle them on forums that do not have rigorous off-topic policies.
You confess to spamming this forum and others with your failed ideas and rhetoric spewing neoNAZI racist comments. Good for you; off topic and proud of it. Just like prisonplanet refuting itself with more smoking gun doltish 911 failed articles.

[9/11-investigator]

So you like Ron Paul, so do a lot of dirt dumb neoNAZIs. Nice try, but who did not know Ron Paul was what he is.

True, Ron Paul was a shimmer of hope for a short time for the Stormfront crowd. But define a 'Neo-nazi' for me. You do realize that some 80% of the Euro-Americans oppose illegal immigration to the US (like I do for Europe). Are they 'neo-nazis' to you? Or is it just a convenient smear-word for some troll (you?) who poses as a topgun Yank?

A video and you are scared; good for you. He will be your president first; good luck.

I am not scared at all, I love it. You should be scared if you are a Euro (which I doubt). Have you listened to what these Latino's said? As soon as the US is belly-up the US can no longer work as an agent for the destruction of the West, like they did in Yugoslavia where they choose the side of the muslims. Only then can Europe fight back without running the risk that the US will team-up with the third-world, comparable to what the US did in WW2 teaming up with the worst criminals of world history: the Soviets.

You proved you know zero about Vietnam. You are talking to people here who wrote papers and studied the major battles and the war. We left Vietnam and people like you, Saddam, UBL and others forgot to read history; you forgot to study the battles; you failed to do your research like you did on 911.

I have more knowledge of history in my fingernail than you in your brain.
The US wanted to prevent a communist takeover of Vietnam but failed at the cost of 40.000 service men. That's 'ass kicked' in my book.

Your racism is exposed over and over. You are right you are just like Hitler. Failed common sense and idiotic rant like prisonPlanet you debunk and refute your own failed biased outlook. (on topic again)

Almost everybody on this planet has an innate preference for his own kind. That's a healthy trait as long as one doesn't demonize others. That's what Hitler did. But most Americans are hypocritical about it: they preach anti-racism and practise white flight.

Your posts - they are not gone - you need to wake up and research and stop exposing your massive lack of knowledge on 911 and other topics.

Moving something to AAH is deletion from a thread anyway.

[dudalb]

I think 9/11 Investigator is trying really hard to kick MaGZ out of his position as "Lead Neo Nazi" at JREF.

[dudalb]

And that Ron Paul seems to attract supporters like 9/11 Investigator the way the honey attracts flies say something pretty unpleasent about Paul.

[9/11-investigator]

And that Ron Paul seems to attract supporters like 9/11 Investigator the way the honey attracts flies say something pretty unpleasent about Paul.

Uhhh dudalb, using 'honey' in an obvious attempt to smear says something pretty unpleasant about your rethorical skills: it should have 'shitpile' or something similar.

Do I have to explain everything to you?

Ron Paul stands for constitutional small government, personal liberty, abandonment of empire, sound money, anti illegal immigration.

But that's probably enough to qualify to be a 'nazi' for many JREF-ers.

[beachnut]

Paul was a shimmer...
... poses as a topgun Yank?
Have you listened to what these Latino's said? ...

I have more knowledge of history in my fingernail than you in your brain.

... an innate preference for his own kind. That's a healthy trait as ... That's what Hitler did. But most Americans are hypocritical about it: they preach anti-racism and practise white flight.

Moving something to AAH is deletion from a thread anyway.
Why do neoNAZIs like Ron Paul?

Top Gun tanker pilot; don't laugh too hard Reheat. My hero picture, it a vanity shot next to a simple supersonic jet trainer I spent 6 months trying to crash softly.

You store your incredible pile of bile in your fingernail? Good for you. Which one?

You like Hitlers racial purity, you preach it freely.

AAH is not deleted, you had no clue where your stuff went; that is indicative of your knowledge on 911.

I think you match prisonplanet's ability to debunk your own ideas with your own posts.


I have more knowledge of history in my fingernail than you in your brain.
Is this another failed attempt at being nice?

Does all this tangential biased bigotry and boasting of your great brain in the fingernail mean you agree prisonplanet refutes itself with stories that refute other stories?

[Bananaman]

9/11-investigator:
But that's probably enough to qualify to be a 'nazi' for many JREF-ers.

Not too hot on the mirror front are you.

I've called people a few things here, but, funnily enough the word 'nazi' has never been the first to spring to my lips. I hope that doesn't confuse you.

Bananaman.

[chillzero]

Stop the name calling and bickering. Get this thread on topic, or it will be closed.

[zorro99]

You're a nice guy, very sympathic. You know what happens to little sheep though? They get shaven at best or end up on a plate in the worse case.

Meet the likely next president of SA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lof6XJ8b1SU

He sings: 'bring me my machine gun'.

Wonder what he is up to. I hope that our comic-book reading zorro-chap has a bullet-proof vest, seems like he is going to need it. Wasn't SA the country with the highest crime rates in the world? I'm sure that's because of all these 'nazi's' roaming the streets.

Isn't diversity beautiful!? All these different cultural habbits! So vibrant!

Take the CV of the next president:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Zuma

A very colorful CV, not boring at all!

Communist upbringing, rape & corruption charges, has had a modest number of only 4 wives (Zuma is a polygamist), of whom only one committed suicide. Beside that he has a number of 'fiancees': Zuma paid 10 cattle as lobola for Swazi Princess Sebentile Dlamini in 2002. How authentic!

You don't mind if we Europeans try to stay away from 'Oceania', as Orwell used to call Anglosphere, as much as possible. We wouldn't even try to reach the moral heights you are residing at.

I seem to recall some 15 years ago, when apartheid was dismantled, the same shrill predictions, very similar to 9/11 Investigator's, about how it would be the end of S Africa. And yet, here S Africa is, 15 years later, still alive and well. It may have it problems, but what country doesn't?

Incidentally, I'm an American ex-pat living and working in S Africa.

Worry about your own country, Mr Investigator, before you start seeking to fix everyone else's.

[9/11-investigator]

I seem to recall some 15 years ago, when apartheid was dismantled, the same shrill predictions, very similar to 9/11 Investigator's, about how it would be the end of S Africa. And yet, here S Africa is, 15 years later, still alive and well. It may have it problems, but what country doesn't?

Incidentally, I'm an American ex-pat living and working in S Africa.

Worry about your own country, Mr Investigator, before you start seeking to fix everyone else's.

Ah, that sheds some interesting new light on your professed tolerance...

The fact that all S Africans of all races, religions and colors stood in lines together and voted really does not bother me.

...you can always run back to the safe 'bigotted' Heartland USA when the inevitable Zimbabwisation (excuse my french) starts to kick in.

Regarding my own country, I am worried sick about it.