The Swinging Lifestyle [Archive]

rachaella

23rd November 2003, 09:25 PM

Ove

26th November 2003, 04:21 AM

I think it's fine IF and only IF both partners are 100% behind it. I have unfortunately seen some bad examples. In one of them the woman would tell anybody that she and her husband had an "open relationship" and that they could do what they wanted. If you then looked at her husband while she went on a rampage it was painfully obvious to everybody that it was only HER that lived in an "open relationship".

Well they are divorced now and both have found new partners.

But as i said, if both partners are 100% behind swinging then why not?;)

tamiO

26th November 2003, 05:15 AM

I can't even think about swinging without cross referencing images or George and Yortuk Festrunk. Then I am no longer in the mood. ;)

http://www.stevemartin.com/television/festrunk.php

Candace

26th November 2003, 09:16 AM

If it's cool for you, it's cool for you. Personally, I try not to know or care what other adults do with their private parts. Some friends of ours have been into the open marriage lifestyle for several years now and it really impacts my friendship with them very little. Sometimes there is someone else living with them, sometimes not.

But, the important question is:

If recreational sex is like water skiing,
what have I been doing wrong all these years?

.......Because it's nowhere near that much fun! ;)

Cleopatra

26th November 2003, 10:06 AM

My eternal non-rhetorical question.

Why being married if you want to have such a life-style?

hgc

26th November 2003, 10:20 AM

Do you have children? If so, you are likely damaging their happiness. Like it or not, this arrangement is unstable, and affects the whole family. The reason many people engage in swinging is because stability in sexual relationships is stifling. If you don't have children, then I don't care.

ChrisH

26th November 2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by UnrepentantSinner
It's just wrong.

Why?

I didn't cheat on either of my ex-wives. I now rue the wasted opportunities.

Marital fidelity is hardly natural, is it?

Wile E. Coyote

26th November 2003, 11:00 AM

Wile E. Coyote

26th November 2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Cleopatra
My eternal non-rhetorical question.

Why being married if you want to have such a life-style?

Is marriage only about sexual claims? Some people can separate love from sex. To such people, the body of the spouse is less important than the other qualities. In this, they are able to distinguish that act of sex from the presence of love.

Sex and love really have no place being together. If you happen to love the person with whom you are having intercourse ... Yay! I doubt many one-night stands are about love, though.

scarlet_35

26th November 2003, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by Cleopatra
My eternal non-rhetorical question.

Why being married if you want to have such a life-style?

I am not claiming to be a swinger but... to answer your question. I think you get married to have something solid but you swing for the adventure, the excitment, variety :)

I have no problem with those that want to swing, I've known a few people like that and I've gone to a bar that was for swingers, now I don't swing but let me tell you, those people had fun, it was without a doubt a very interesting experience :)

Chanileslie

26th November 2003, 12:06 PM

I don't think there is anything wrong with the 'swinging' lifestyle as long as all people who are involved in the relationship are informed and are in agreement that this is appropriate.

Chanileslie

26th November 2003, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by hgc
Do you have children? If so, you are likely damaging their happiness. Like it or not, this arrangement is unstable, and affects the whole family. The reason many people engage in swinging is because stability in sexual relationships is stifling. If you don't have children, then I don't care.

Children have nothing to do with this. If it involves the adults, like any other aspect of a parents sex life, it is not the childrens business. As long as one is not inviting the children along for the ride, then how does it harm?

What is more important to children is that the parents show them love, boundries, consideration, and treat them and their spouse with decency and respect.

El Greco

26th November 2003, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by Cleopatra
Why being married if you want to have such a life-style? Hmmm.... tax purposes maybe ? ;)

Personally I don't think I'd ever swing (married or single), but I guess that's exactly the reason I haven't maried yet http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0903/liebe/love-smiley-013.gif

MoeFaux

26th November 2003, 12:16 PM

I also don't see the big fuss. As stated before, if both partners are interested, then it can be a lot of fun, and it really strengthens the relationship.
I know a lot of swingers. One of my best friends swings with his wife. He's the band over at the local swingers club.
I've been a few times, and it doesn't seem to be anything but good.
I personally don't like the "pretty-people only" clubs, because it's just boring, and seems to be a lot of people who aren't working at a relationship.
A lot of couples go to swingers clubs just for the voyeristic fun of it. Even if you aren't active in the lifestyle, it's still fun to go and watch and hang out.

American

26th November 2003, 12:22 PM

Ever seen those tantra vacation webpages? It's all hideous, destroyed people. They mistake "open-minded" for "sad and ugly ineffectual compensation".

Good looking couples are selfish and stick together. Why share?

Suezoled

26th November 2003, 01:04 PM

I thought this would be a thread about swing dancing. Swing dancing is cool, but I couldn't manage in those heels. Since this is about something else entirely, I'll just.... sit back and watch the players. ;)

American

26th November 2003, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Suezoled
I thought this would be a thread about swing dancing. Swing dancing is cool, but I couldn't manage in those heels. Since this is about something else entirely, I'll just.... sit back and watch the players. ;)

http://www.trephination.net/gallery/macros/bv31571.jpg

Mr Manifesto

26th November 2003, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by Ohrryp
I don't find it to be perverted. I do find it to be stupid, given the dynamics of personal relationships, and the prevalence of STDs.

You have a point about relationship dynamics, but haven't you Yanks discovered condoms yet?

Mr Manifesto

26th November 2003, 04:28 PM

Group sex involves more than two people. Humans, like other species, can experience a high level of sexual energy from an environment where they hear, see, touch and smell others engaged in copulation. The opportunity to engage in sex without the usual commitment to sex or intimacy likewise relieves pressure for many. Many ancient religions used orgies in the worship of fertility gods. These rituals gave widows, homely virgins eg, American, and spouses of infertile mates the chance to conceive; the offspring of such unions were considered sacred. Today the North American Swingers club estimates the number of active swingers in the United States to be five million. (bunch of yada about what exactly these swingers get up to when they swing)

CAUTION: Many couples assume swinging will save a marriage. However, it more often destroys a weak relationship. Likewise it is an activity that has to have the enthusiasm of both partners to be successful. Sexually transmittable diseases are a major concern for many. However, it is often easier to insist that a casual partner use condoms than it is to ask a steady lover.

(cross references follow)
(my italics)
From "Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices", Brendan B Love, 1992 Barricade Books NJ, 127pp

Candace

26th November 2003, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto

You have a point about relationship dynamics, but haven't you Yanks discovered condoms yet?

You know we have an overpopulation problem, dontcha?

:D

UnrepentantSinner

26th November 2003, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by ChrisH
Why?

I didn't cheat on either of my ex-wives. I now rue the wasted opportunities.

Marital fidelity is hardly natural, is it?

If you can't stay faithful, why get married in the first place?

I don't know about the U.K. but the U.S. is growing ever more f***ed up because of people not taking marriage and family more seriously. I see it all the time and the situation is getting worse.

In a world where the extended family is a distant memory, the nuclear becomes all the more important.

But I digress... you're refering to cheating on your wife which is a different form of adultery than swinging.

ManfredVonRichthoffen

26th November 2003, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by UnrepentantSinner

If you can't stay faithful, why get married in the first place?

I don't know about the U.K. but the U.S. is growing ever more f***ed up because of people not taking marriage and family more seriously. I see it all the time and the situation is getting worse.

In a world where the extended family is a distant memory, the nuclear becomes all the more important.

But I digress... you're refering to cheating on your wife which is a different form of adultery than swinging. You can have a non-f@#ked up family life and still swing, you just have to be ready to explain the birds and the bees and the other bees and other birds to billy when he walks in on Mr Jones from down the street banging mommy.

I don't care what other consenting folk do, but it isn't for me. I am a very passionate and jealous person. I love my wife and she is mine and mine alone. Unless the other person is a woman and I'm invited. No dudes.

UnrepentantSinner

26th November 2003, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by ManfredVonRichthoffen
You can have a non-f@#ked up family life and still swing, you just have to be ready to explain the birds and the bees and the other bees and other birds to billy when he walks in on Mr Jones from down the street banging mommy.

All the walking wounded we have increasingly filling our society are evidence of just the opposite.

If you have to screw around, don't get married, don't have any kids and stop screwing when you get an STD. Otherwise learn to control youself.

ManfredVonRichthoffen

26th November 2003, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by UnrepentantSinner

All the walking wounded we have increasingly filling our society are evidence of just the opposite.

If you have to screw around, don't get married, don't have any kids and stop screwing when you get an STD. Otherwise learn to control youself. Should have included a smiley. I was joking. I always figured swingers weren't exactly the type to have kids.

UnrepentantSinner

27th November 2003, 03:31 AM

And another thing, swinging kills children (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0119349/).

voidx

27th November 2003, 03:22 PM

More black and white it seems. Swinging practiced between 2 consenting adults, in a strong and already open-minded and adventurous sexual relationship is entirely fine. However, many couples over-state how stable their relationship is, especially when it comes to sexual aspects, and so get into something their not ready to handle, or at least, one of the spouses is not comfortable with. Be brutally honest with yourself about just how open-minded you are and what you sexual relationship is with your spouse before considering any type of swinging activity. For those that are comfortable and stable enough in their relationship to be into swinging I think you'd find they enjoy it immensely and continue to do it because its sexually rewarding on some level for both members of the couple.

Eos of the Eons

2nd December 2003, 07:47 PM

I just can't see myself touching anyone else...I'm really paranoid about STDs and such. I view others as potentially icky. Not only that, I just find my relationshape is 'exciting' enough. I don't feel bored or anything. The odd bit of flirting is enough for me.

I figure people who feel the same way about relationships should be together. There are men, I hope, that are just as happy with monogamy. I think I see a few here. If you're not like that, then don't marry someone like that. Birds of a feather must flock together here.

Swinging isn't my thing, and you don't need to hear anything else of what I think about it once that is said.

I could never feel safe swinging, especially with my kids still relying so much on me.

It's just icky.

kittynh

3rd December 2003, 04:09 PM

It may be for some people. I'm just not one of those people. As for cheating on a spouse, that seems very different. I've known men and women who cheat because they WANT to get caught (and then get out of the marriage), they WANT someone to fuss over them and be what they feel their current spouse isn't, they WANT something they aren't getting (though it's not always the spouses fault).

as for kids...custody battles can be very interesting. This would just make it more interesting. In good old Puritan New England, you would be well advised to keep your swinging a secret if you have children (and if you engage in swinging type activities in the home while the children are there).

Chanileslie

4th December 2003, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by American

http://www.trephination.net/gallery/macros/bv31571.jpg

You're a jerk.

Phaycops

4th December 2003, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by kittynh
It may be for some people. I'm just not one of those people. As for cheating on a spouse, that seems very different. I've known men and women who cheat because they WANT to get caught (and then get out of the marriage), they WANT someone to fuss over them and be what they feel their current spouse isn't, they WANT something they aren't getting (though it's not always the spouses fault).

I've said this before around here. Cheating and swinging, or having open relationships, are NOT THE SAME THING! Cheating is behind your partner's back; open relationships involve both partners, a great deal of communication, and swinging obviously involves both partners at the same time. The motivations for each are highly individual, but the important distinction to be made is that cheating is behind your partner's back, and any other kind of relationship situation is mutually agreed upon out in the open. Oh, and however two people wish to structure their relationship is no business of anyone else's. I don't care if you wanna screw the neighbor, the neighbor's husband, or the neighbor's dog, just don't turn up your stereo too loud :)

gnome

5th December 2003, 02:34 PM

I have been in some open relationships and some exclusive relationships. While I do not think it is wrong if all parties have knowledge and consent, one needs to pay special attention to its impact on any children affected, who may have a hard time understanding what's going on.

Second... while I have seen it work for some people... let me say that if you try to maintain a solid relationship that is open, in my experience the odds are against it lasting long after that.

In fact, I have come to agree with radio's Dr. Drew on the matter, that someone seeking to involve an outsider in a sexual relationship often has a desire to disrupt the relationship that they're not openly admitting to themselves.

In my personal experience, one party to the relationship is usually not as enthusiastic about it as the other. Sometimes they start out on equal terms, but if one has more liaisons than the other, even by coincidence, a mentality of needing to "keep up" may drive the other to encounters they wouldn't otherwise choose.

Some customize their open relationship with rules and boundaries... this is something that also CAN work, but again I have seen in plenty of cases it is easy for these rules to erode into mistrust and chaos also.

So... actually I would say... if you're so inclined... try it, but not with someone you couldn't bear to lose. The outcome can be quite unpredictable

Damn... (/rant)

Sorry to ramble.

kittynh

5th December 2003, 05:51 PM

I remember DrDrew saying something like,"The new sexual code seems to have been invented by 17 year old boys who can't believe they've gotten everyone else to go along with it."

MoeFaux

5th December 2003, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by Chanileslie

You're a jerk.

Seconded.

He's just trolling, Chani. This instance though, was too far. [hug]

Clancie

5th December 2003, 07:39 PM

Posted by SteveW

In our opinion, this is just recreational sex and is no different than water skiing. Why is it that some people find this so perverted?
Well, SteveW, to each his own.

But, since you asked, personally, I don't know of anything sexier than two people who share and express a total emotional and physical commitment to each other every chance they get!

epepke

6th December 2003, 11:26 PM

Thank you for bringing the topic up.

I got involved with the lifestyle about seven years ago, mostly as a single male, though I did bring several female friends at times. I find it very emotionally healthy. The only problem is that my area suffers from a lack of party houses, and these days I do not have the means to go down to my favorites, which are mostly in the Orlando-Daytona corridor.

I think people are down on it because people just freak out about anything having to do with sex. I've found it safer, cleaner, and way the hell less pathological than going to bars or trying to meet people at random. Almost everyone in swinging seems to be respectful, careful, clean, and decent. I've only seen two females with Borderline Personality Disorder in swinging, and I have an unusually sensitive BPD detector.

Swinging also provides a check on jealousy, a totally stupid and destructive emotion. Maybe many people like jealousy because they like the things that it usually leads to: resentment, hatred, murder, rape, and so forth.

I think it would please most of the detractors if swingers were more like they imagined, evil, satanic insatiably sex-crazed people. Unfortunately for them, we aren't. We're mostly just ordinary people who like to be in an environment where acknowedging our sexuality is not considered crass. We think that, everywhere, there should be no reason for a polite, respectful sexual invitation to be met with a physical assault, and we like to be around people who feel similarly. In the swinging world, there is no shame, nor is there coercion, nor codependence, nor rape. Perhaps people outside swinging like this sort of thing and therefore think that a swinging environment is bad.

The swinging environment is also quite accepting. I've seen people from their 20's to their 70's, people with missing limbs, people of every possible ethnic background, people in wheelchairs, businesspeople and bikers alike, enjoying the environment. Perhaps this bothers people. Perhaps they think such people should just up and die. This is not a nice thing to be said, but it has to be said. If swinging were abolished, and pornography were abolished, there would really be no place for people who were different from some Ben Affleck/Christine Agulerra norm to express themselves as sexual. Maybe that's what people want. Maybe this is too harch, but for all the quasi-liberal hooplah about it, I don't see many people outside of swinging creating environments where non-Hollywood-compliant people can express their sexuality. They just want to bitch and moan.

It isn't even necessarily about having sex with other people. (I'm talking about the clubs now, which perhaps may be different from your experiences with advertisements.) It's mostly to be in an environment where it's OK to be sexual. I've seen many women in swinging who have no interest in having sex but like to show off. That's OK. There are those who consider it just an ordinary social gathering. That's OK, too. The point is that an invitation for sex, honorably and politely given, is going to get an honorable and polite response, whether yes or no.

Ironically, in swing clubs, the atmosphere is actually less sexual because of this. In any bar or other social gathering, people also think about sex, but they can't admit it, so their attempts to express it develop exaggerated, almost comic overtones. Swing clubs are far more relaxed than bars.

I've thought of writing an ethnographic monograph about this, but I can't imagine who would publish it.

epepke

6th December 2003, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Cleopatra
My eternal non-rhetorical question.

Why being married if you want to have such a life-style?

There's a difference.

Which you wouldn't know about or care to know about because you've already decided, and so that's that.

Eos of the Eons

7th December 2003, 08:35 AM

You're the judgemental one epeke. Just because I don't like swinging doesn't mean I judge swingers to be evil, satanic, etc.

The green eyed monster doesn't always lead to death, rape, etc. either. Otherwise 90% of us would be dead.

Most of us merely stated that it isn't for us, and if a person is all for it, then don't make it isn't one sided, and don't expect a relationship to survive it.

Yes I am scared of STD's, but the most clean looking person can have an STD. It doesn't have to do with 'cleanliness'.

Clubs? I never dated anyone I just met there. People who hang out at clubs are strangers to me, and I only go there with friends if ever (I don't remember the last time I went to a club).

Sex crazed? Who said only swingers were sex crazed? I'm sex crazed, and I'm monogamous.

One is very defensive for one who loves their lifestyle so much. I don't remember any of us non-swingers being so harshly judgemental to have you put up such a post chastising us so much. I'm sure you've met with judging, but I don't remember any harsh judgement in any posts here.

epepke

7th December 2003, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
You're the judgemental one epeke. Just because I don't like swinging doesn't mean I judge swingers to be evil, satanic, etc.

I apologize for the tone of that posting; I did go over the top and brought resentments here that probably don't belong here, which are based on general observations of swinging I've heard over the years.

At the same time, why are you taking it so personally? I didn't name you, and I'm perfectly capable ot naming people. If the shoe doesn't fit, you don't have to wear it.

uneasy

7th December 2003, 03:17 PM

A little story...

This might not technically be about swinging, because I think it's a term for couples, so what would I know?

I was doing a 50 mile group bicycling ride, and it when I got to the top of a big hill in the middle, I stopped to rest. It was a bad idea because it was a warm day, and as soon as the breeze of my motion was gone, sweat began pouring down into my eyes. I stopped next to couple other bicyclists who I think were a man and a wife.

"Do you swing?", he asked. I was rubbing my eyes, and that only made it worse. I could hardly see. "What?", I asked. "Do you swing?", he asked again. I was trying to open my eyes to look at him, and now I was trying to look at his wife too.

Then he explained what he meant, and he was actually saying "spin". He meant "spinning", a term for bicycling on stationary bicycles. I think people organize clubs to do it.

So I always wonder, was I just just going to keep saying "What?" or was I about to say, "I can't see, give me a minute, and I'll decide."

kittynh

7th December 2003, 04:07 PM

well, and I think that everyone has said, "hey, it might be fine for you, I just don't see it working in my life" or "hey, it works for me". I think the pro swingers who might say, "If you don't swing, you have no chance for having no jelousy and someone is going to cheat, so only those that swing can have a happy marriage" - well, I don't agree with that.

Comfort, security, and an openess that comes with familiarity can lead to an interesting sexual life for many people. For others, not so. For many people emotions are tied into sexuality, and for others not. The world has many types of people, thank Ed.

Roadtoad

8th December 2003, 09:17 AM

Just found this thread, so please forgive me if I repeat unnecessarily...

I realize there's a deep seated desire for variety in human beings, and there's certainly a great drive to "sow one's seed" as broadly as possible. But at some point, we kind of have to let the big head do the thinking for the little one.

And, no, I don't think I'd care to walk in on my wife getting banged by anyone else, regardless of gender.

This is the sort of thing you read about in Nancy Friday's books. (http://www.nancyfriday.com)

Phaycops

8th December 2003, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by Roadtoad

And, no, I don't think I'd care to walk in on my wife getting banged by anyone else, regardless of gender.

Again, "cheating" and "swinging" are NOT the same thing. If you unexpectedly walked in on your wife having sex with someone else, without telling you, then she's cheating. If you have an open relationship, OTOH, you would (ideally) know in advance when she'd be banging other people, and you would be prepared in advance for it. I'm not saying the two situations don't have similar motivations, but to equate cheating and open relationships or swinging is extremely disrespectful, not to mention disingenuous. In order to understand the lifestyle, you have to get out of the jealous, cheating frame of mind when thinking of it.

Roadtoad

8th December 2003, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Phaycops

Again, "cheating" and "swinging" are NOT the same thing. If you unexpectedly walked in on your wife having sex with someone else, without telling you, then she's cheating. If you have an open relationship, OTOH, you would (ideally) know in advance when she'd be banging other people, and you would be prepared in advance for it. I'm not saying the two situations don't have similar motivations, but to equate cheating and open relationships or swinging is extremely disrespectful, not to mention disingenuous. In order to understand the lifestyle, you have to get out of the jealous, cheating frame of mind when thinking of it.

I should have been a little clearer, I suspect. My intended statement was that I would not want to see my wife having sex with anyone else, whether I was aware of the relationsihp or not. An "open" relationship as described here is not something I would go for. Sure, there's a fantasy that many have of enjoying multiple partners, or swapping, or engaging in sex with people you've met only moments before.

On the other hand, as I've gotten older, I have grown to appreciate certain fidelities in my life. Marriage, to me, should be one of them.

If an open relationship works for you, great. It doesn't for the rest of us, I suspect.

Eos of the Eons

10th December 2003, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by epepke

I apologize for the tone of that posting; I did go over the top and brought resentments here that probably don't belong here, which are based on general observations of swinging I've heard over the years.

At the same time, why are you taking it so personally? I didn't name you, and I'm perfectly capable ot naming people. If the shoe doesn't fit, you don't have to wear it.

I would say "we", but I can't speak for everyone. So I speak my opinion of the post.

The apology is nice, thank you:)

Now I'm all curious about your swinging experiences ;) :D

epepke

10th December 2003, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by kittynh
well, and I think that everyone has said, "hey, it might be fine for you, I just don't see it working in my life" or "hey, it works for me". I think the pro swingers who might say, "If you don't swing, you have no chance for having no jelousy and someone is going to cheat, so only those that swing can have a happy marriage" - well, I don't agree with that.

As, I suppose, a "pro-swinger," I wouldn't say that. I would just point out that many swinging marriages work just fine. That doesn't mean that many non-swinging marriages don't work fine.

As far as jealousy goes, I think that swinging is a challenge to remove jealousy from one's makeup. Many people live happy lives without doing it. Many also lack jealousy without swinging. But swinging does test and check jealousy.

epepke

10th December 2003, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons

I would say "we", but I can't speak for everyone. So I speak my opinion of the post.

The apology is nice, thank you:)

Now I'm all curious about your swinging experiences ;) :D

You're welcome.

There's one thing about your posting that I think was a misunderstanding. In the swinging lifestyle, "clean" means "recently tested for STDs and able to demonstrate it." I guess that you might have thought it had something to do with soap and water or wearing nice clothes or something like that. Swinging is full of autonyms, and it's sometimes hard for me to remember which ones I'm using. But the majority of swingers I know are very careful about STDs.

I have, of course, also had some lovers that I met outside of swinging. This experience is probably no different from what the majority of people experience in their lives. My experience, however, is that all the women I have been with outisde of swinging, whether long-term lovers or not, have been completely freaked out that I carry special polyurethane condoms and lubricants and single-use spermicidal applicators with Nonoxynol-9. It's like, to them, actually being prepared and careful is unromantic or somthing. It is strange to think that twenty years after AIDS women have not adapted, but it seems to me that they haven't. I should add that this applies no matter how long the onset of the relationship. I could and have courted a woman for six months without sex, and when the time comes, inevitably, smoke comes out of her ears when she finds out that I am carrying condoms.

On the other hand, nobody in swinging freaks out, although some of them find the polyurethane condoms a novelty.

But what are you curious about?

There are a couple of anecdotes that stand out for me. One was in a more formal swing club, the kind that are set up much like the Elks club. A guy had a birthday. They sat him in a chair on a stage, and a somewhat older woman did a striptease for him. It was way tamer than any strip club; she didn't even take off her panties. But it was a gentle sort of appreciation, and very nice, I thought.

Another was an affirmation of wedding vows. The bride dressed up in an admittedly sexy version of a bride's outfit. Neither of them swung (swang? swinged?) with anybody else (the autonym is "partied"). It wasn't entirely serious. The "preacher" (who was the owner of the party house) asked, "Do you vow to do unto others as you do to him?" She replied, "Wait a minute, I don't know about that!" It was definitely a party atmosphere, and people were laughing and cheering. There was a band that night, too.

Or are you asking about the sexual experiences?

They were mostly the same as sexual experiences everywhere, except that condoms and lubricants are always readily available, courtesy of the house. A few orgies, but mostly one on one.

I don't know that it is the sexual experiences that attract me so much to swinging. I went into swinging when I was combatting my shyness, and it helped a lot. What I appreciated most was the environment, where sexuality was taken for granted and therefore relaxed.

Not that I mean to say that I did not have sex with a fair number of women in swing clubs, as I did. I missed out on sleeping around in high school and college, and it has been enjoyable to make up for lost time. Not that I decry being monogamous; I have done that, too, and it has its own special qualities. Swinging is not superior nor inferior; simply different.

Eos of the Eons

12th December 2003, 08:35 PM

Good post, and I appreciate the opportunity for the insight. I really don't understand the non-swingers seeing that you are ready for anything as being a thing to be freaked out about. I always appreciated that sort of thing. I find being scared to be intimate because of not having those things onhand as unromantic.

I never pictured swinging as unresponsible, but I thought there was more group stuff-4 people, not two in a room. Is that my biggest misconception?

I have been with my partner with others (another couple) around, but there was no intermingling or switching. I don't like anyone but my partner touching me for some odd reason. I'm weird that way though, I don't even like hugs from other women-I'm not touchy feely unless it's my partner or my kids.

You can thus see why swinging just doesn't appeal to me. It would be different if I were more of a people person for sure. Are you more of a people person now that you are less shy?

epepke

12th December 2003, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
Good post, and I appreciate the opportunity for the insight. I really don't understand the non-swingers seeing that you are ready for anything as being a thing to be freaked out about. I always appreciated that sort of thing. I find being scared to be intimate because of not having those things onhand as unromantic.

I don't understand it either, but it seems to be the case. Even in fairly long-onset relationships, which a courting period of months, I've found the majority of women to get freaked out. Even women who also carry condoms and offer them to me are taken aback to find that I have my own.

There was a period of two years of my adult life during which I had no sex at all. I still managed to keep fresh condoms in ready supply at all times. It was kind of depressing going back to the drug store when they had expired and buying new ones, but I did it.

I think there is a schizm between what people say they find acceptable and what they actually do find acceptable. Well, at least for women. I don't know about men, as I don't have sex with men, so I'm not in a position to know.

I never pictured swinging as unresponsible, but I thought there was more group stuff-4 people, not two in a room. Is that my biggest misconception?[quote]

It varies. I'd say a good half of the encounters are two people. Most of the rest are two or more couples in the same room. Or one person will serially take on several others. Actual orgies are relatively infrequent. They are kind of fun, but as you might expect, they're also fairly comic.

[quote]You can thus see why swinging just doesn't appeal to me. It would be different if I were more of a people person for sure. Are you more of a people person now that you are less shy?

De gustibus non disputandum est.

It's probably a bad time to ask me, as I'm pretty antisocial these days. There are other factors, such as poverty, right now. I find it difficult to keep a healthy self-image in the absence of the regular reminder of value of a paycheck, so I have a bit of a pissy attitude.

I think I've always wanted to be around people; it's just been very difficult to manage. Certaily I don't mind hugs, from men or women.

Boo

13th December 2003, 09:47 AM

One of the best guidelines I ever saw about 'alternative lifestyles' was Safe, Sane and Consentual (for all parties involve including non present spouses or significant others). Nothing is ever done, said, or inferred in the presence of a minor or someone that was not already involved or had consented to whatever 'event' was to take place.

Seems to me that what happens behind closed doors should stay there. 'Don't ask, don't tell' kinda makes sense.

Boo

epepke

13th December 2003, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Boo
One of the best guidelines I ever saw about 'alternative lifestyles' was Safe, Sane and Consentual (for all parties involve including non present spouses or significant others). Nothing is ever done, said, or inferred in the presence of a minor or someone that was not already involved or had consented to whatever 'event' was to take place.

There's also, usually, a safe word. That's a word that means, whatever you're doing, stop immediately. Some party houses have a safe word in the rules; for one I used to go to, the safe word was "Uncle."

Evolving_ant

1st January 2004, 05:28 AM

Originally posted by SteveW
I just wondered what most people's opinion is about sex outside of, or perhaps in addition to, marriage. We have been "swinging" for a number of years now. We tend to like playing with other couples and single females for adult fun. In our opinion, this is just recreational sex and is no different than water skiing. Why is it that some people find this so perverted?

Much to the upset of my some of my best and closest friends, I have not been able to reach a very positive view of the whole swinging deal. Swingers tend to find people like myself judgemental, prudish and narrow-minded whereas I believe I make them feel uncomfortable merely because my understanding of love and intimacy is different to theirs. I don't say 'gosh you're bad' when I am informed of their swinging forays, I don't even think that. I simply just _don't get it_ . I could not...COULD NOT...profess to love someone and then want to have sex with someone else. If I could have sex with someone else, that is a sure sign for me, that I do not love the person I'm with. For me, the relationship would take on the proportions of a public swimming pool and that would just kill it. I have also never been able to disconnect sex from meaningful contact with another person. I have walked that path, thinking that perhaps I would learn something and become a more liberated human being but it just made me a more and more miserable human being. I simply dont see the point of having sex with people I dont care for on a very deep level. I could never see sex as being something 'recreational'. I don't think there is something wrong with me. This is just the way I am. I don't judge others for having a different view from me, I just get peeved when _I_ am the one being judged as somehow intimately incompetent because sex necessarily goes with love for me and I mean love which is very different from being great mates but not uninclusive of that ( sorry, I probably just made the word uninclusive up...but you know what I mean). Prudish as it sounds, loveless sex makes me feel tainted and very disconnected from myself and other.

As I said, a very personal understanding, and I add, experience.

Eos of the Eons

1st January 2004, 09:01 AM

I just get peeved when _I_ am the one being judged as somehow intimately incompetent because sex necessarily goes with love for me and I mean love which is very different from being great mates but not uninclusive of that ( sorry, I probably just made the word uninclusive up...but you know what I mean). Prudish as it sounds, loveless sex makes me feel tainted and very disconnected from myself and other.

I hear ya.

They say there are two evolutionary paths when it comes to relationships.

The one is where men go about impregnating many women to get lots of offspring. This results in offspring that have no support from their father, and thus may not survive. Even with stepfathers, the children don't have as good a chance if both biological parents actively raised them.

The other path is to have fewer children with one partner, but increase the chances that all of the children will thrive.

One is obviously not monogamous, and could result in women that have less of a drive for monogamy should they survive growing up in a one parent situation.

Thus, I can certainly see how there could be quite a few swingers that don't share the monogamous drive that quite a few posters here have.

With birth control there will be less illegitimate children born to swingers, and could result in less and less people with a swinging type outlook. But there are still folks who get married and have kids, and then break up because of cheating or whatever.

I just simply look at it as there are definitely two types of people out there. It would be difficult to live one way, but feel another.

This is one reason why people need to be honest with each other. Maybe a swinger could commit to one person if it is the right person? Who knows. I just didn't want to marry someone that didn't have my monogamous outlook. It's hard to find a guy who you know for sure would have a better chance of being the monogamous type. Women certainly do better in monogamy, so you can see why women would have the 'monogamous drive'.

epepke

1st January 2004, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
They say there are two evolutionary paths when it comes to relationships.

In the interests of completeness, there's a third.

It is a two-tiered approach where a woman has children with a dangerous man, possibly a brutal sociopath, and then later looks for a gentle man to help raise them.

This seems to be, by a fairly large margin, the majority way to do things in the American South. I cannot speak for other areas; possibly in the Midwest this is rarer. It may be a largely modern phenomenon, but then again, it may have gone on for a long time in different forms.

Eos of the Eons

1st January 2004, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by epepke

In the interests of completeness, there's a third.

It is a two-tiered approach where a woman has children with a dangerous man, possibly a brutal sociopath, and then later looks for a gentle man to help raise them.

This seems to be, by a fairly large margin, the majority way to do things in the American South. I cannot speak for other areas; possibly in the Midwest this is rarer. It may be a largely modern phenomenon, but then again, it may have gone on for a long time in different forms.

Yeah, and you can look at it in my scenario...the dangerous men seed the women, and then leave them - or the women get a clue and leave. The dangerous man just goes on and gets another dumb woman pregnant. The non-monogamous and dumb, yet somewhat successful approach to seeding many instead of sticking with one.

The women are then stuck with finding stepfathers they should have had the children with. The kids will still not fare as well. It would be better to have been fathered by a gentle man than just have the gentle man as a step father.

epepke

1st January 2004, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons Yeah, and you can look at it in my scenario...the dangerous men seed the women, and then leave them - or the women get a clue and leave. The dangerous man just goes on and gets another dumb woman pregnant. The non-monogamous and dumb, yet somewhat successful approach to seeding many instead of sticking with one.[b]

I consider this a third, separate case, for three reasons:

1) In a substantial number of these cases, the sociopathic man does not want to leave, and the woman takes out a restraining order, which would hardly be necessary if the male simply wanted to impregnate as many females as possible.

2) In order for this behavior to be connected to swinging, you would have to show a higher incidence of sociopathy amongst swingers, which is not the case.

3) Your descrption focuses on the activity of the males and the passivity of the females, but organized swinging is fairly strongly matriarchal.

VicDaring

2nd January 2004, 06:53 AM

Quick story:

I had a guy try to set me up with his wife a number of years ago.

It was a weird thing. The wife and I had uh...had a few drinks and done some things that would definitely be called a foul if we had been playing hockey a few weeks previous. So when the husband pulled me aside to talk, I thought, "Okay, if he wants to take a poke at me, I deserve it."

Instead, he tells me the wife wants to know how to get ahold of me so we can pick up where we left off. I probably looked a little confused so he tells me they do this from time-to-time. As long as the other knows what's going on, it's cool.

I thought about it for maybe a couple seconds, and realized this just wasn't for me. I told the guy, "Look, I was full of booze and my judgement wasn't what it should have been a couple weeks ago. Thanks but..."

Then, I had maybe the weirdest moment of my life so far, when I got a sort of, "What, my wife's not good enough for you?" reaction from this guy. He was actually offended that I wouldn't sleep with his wife.

I had to convince him that it was just not something I would be comfortable with. Nothing to do with him or his wife and that by "bad judgement" I meant messing around with a married woman, not necessarily his wife.

I was expecting the guy to be mad that I had touched his wife in the first place. Turned out, he was mad that I stopped. Weird.

For what it's worth, in retrospect, I tend to think I shoulda slept with her. Different experience and all.

epepke

2nd January 2004, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by VicDaring
Quick story:

I had a guy try to set me up with his wife a number of years ago.

This story sounds quite ugly to me. It isn't what swinging is about: swinging is about being straightforward and honest up front.

Eos of the Eons

2nd January 2004, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by epepke

I consider this a third, separate case, for three reasons:

1) In a substantial number of these cases, the sociopathic man does not want to leave, and the woman takes out a restraining order, which would hardly be necessary if the male simply wanted to impregnate as many females as possible.

2) In order for this behavior to be connected to swinging, you would have to show a higher incidence of sociopathy amongst swingers, which is not the case.

3) Your descrption focuses on the activity of the males and the passivity of the females, but organized swinging is fairly strongly matriarchal. :D

Very few swingers in the spread seed scenario, I'm sorry if I looked like I was saying all swingers were into the seed spreading scenario...some of the swingers may just be the usual men who like to play around until they are serious about settling down. It's the guys who never want to ever settle down with only one woman forever I call seed spreaders.

I find seed spreaders to be the jealous types as well.

My scenarios did focus more on men, as it seems more women are strongly monogamous from the get go.

You can't have seed spreaders without there being some females resulting in the same mindset.

It's the non jealous types that make the best swingers I imagine.

Swingers are a minority...I just can't see there being totally monogamous types like myself being a majority among them. There just has to be more seed spreaders, but a very minority that aren't the usual seed spreaders.

Your psychopath seed spreaders are a minority as well...the other extreme right? Most folks are in the middle somewhere.

Is all very complicated. I'm just basing my observations on a show I saw on "reproduction strategies"...and extrapolating to say that monogamous sorts just don't make good swingers.

epepke

2nd January 2004, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
:D

Very few swingers in the spread seed scenario, I'm sorry if I looked like I was saying all swingers were into the seed spreading scenario.

I'm not offended; I'm just trying to point out why I think it's a different dynamic.

..some of the swingers may just be the usual men who like to play around until they are serious about settling down.

Not as many as you'd think. Most of the men I've met in swinging already have settled down and have a steady wife or girlfriend. Swinging does not follow (to borrow a phrase from astronomy) the "main sequence." Most people into swinging are perfectly happy in their relationships. They just do this because they enjoy it.

From your terminology, "seed spreaders" seem naturally unattracted to swinging. The ones I've known seem to be into the challenge of seduction, but in swinging, there really is no challenge.

There's a fairly large cohort that insists that swinging is only for couples. They're mostly wrong, but not entirely. Some clubs only admit couples. Some refuse to admit single males but admit single females. Others admit single males but refuse to admit single females. The first time I went to a swing club was as part of a couple, but I found that the anthropology was almost more interesting than the swinging, and I prefer to do ethnography alone.

My scenarios did focus more on men, as it seems more women are strongly monogamous from the get go.

I've always wondered about that. I have a guess that whatever sex-specific behavior there is gets amplified in people who go primarily for same-sex relationships. There does seem to be more jealousy amongst lesbian couples, but I'm not sure about the relative rates of sleeping around.

It's the non jealous types that make the best swingers I imagine.

Rather say that swinging provides a challenge to jealousy, and the people who do not pass it do not last long.

I've often thought about the structure of swinging; it seems to me that it has two tiers, the more formal swing clubs and the less formal party houses. In a way, it's sort of elitist; there are layers to keep the bad people out.

Swingers are a minority...I just can't see there being totally monogamous types like myself being a majority among them.[quote]

By definition, I guess.

[quote]There just has to be more seed spreaders, but a very minority that aren't the usual seed spreaders.

Well, Bayes' theorem doesn't work so hot when there are more than two groups, and when swinging is a minority lifestyle.

You might find it interesting to go to a party house or swing club one of these days. There is absolutely no obligation to "party" yourself. In fact, most regulars don't anyway. You can even avoid seeing any sex acts by not going into the rooms so designated. But the anthropology is fascinating and itself is well worth the admission charge.

ca3799

3rd January 2004, 05:23 PM

I had a roomate once, a single guy, who was into swinging (and prostitutes). He invited everyone around to join him, but as far as I know, noone did.

Years later, I watched a documentary called "The Lifestyle" (available from Netflix) about, well, the lifestyle of swinging. The doc covered several couples and single folks over the course of one year. One guy (whose wife had died) had a special sling chair for intercourse, and the party hosters often put down padded mats in the bedrooms.

The combination of the one swinger I knew (that I know about) and the documentary leaves me feeing that swingers are, and I don't mean to insult, but sad, empty, lonely, searching for something- stuff like that. Neither the roomate or the people I saw in the doc seemed to be especially enjoying themselves in many areas of their lives. One of the couples interviewed described the damage they felt had occured to their marriage- I can still see their sad faces in my mind.
-
Obviously, I don't swing and am not interested in swinging. I guess I too am a person who has difficulty separating sexual intimacy from 'recreation'.

That's my opinion. Before the flaming, please remember you asked for my opinion.

epepke

6th January 2004, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by ca3799
I had a roomate once, a single guy, who was into swinging (and prostitutes). He invited everyone around to join him, but as far as I know, noone did.

Years later, I watched a documentary called "The Lifestyle" (available from Netflix) about, well, the lifestyle of swinging. The doc covered several couples and single folks over the course of one year. One guy (whose wife had died) had a special sling chair for intercourse, and the party hosters often put down padded mats in the bedrooms.

The combination of the one swinger I knew (that I know about) and the documentary leaves me feeing that swingers are, and I don't mean to insult, but sad, empty, lonely, searching for something- stuff like that. Neither the roomate or the people I saw in the doc seemed to be especially enjoying themselves in many areas of their lives. One of the couples interviewed described the damage they felt had occured to their marriage- I can still see their sad faces in my mind.
-
Obviously, I don't swing and am not interested in swinging. I guess I too am a person who has difficulty separating sexual intimacy from 'recreation'.

That's my opinion. Before the flaming, please remember you asked for my opinion.

I'm not going to flame you. I've never met anybody in swinging who was like the couple you described, but I'm sure there are people who tried it and found they didn't like it.

I do have to ask what is the value of declaring swingers particularly as sad, empty, lonely, and searching for something? It's one of those statements that is literally true, but what of it? I am attracted to swinging (or, at least I was; I haven't done it in years) because there were things there that I wanted, and it made me happier. One might as well describe people who want to go to college as "ignorant, uneducated," or people who are looking for jobs as "unemployed, layabout, deadbeat" or people who go to the hospital as "diseased, injured, unhealthy" but what is really the value, other than putting people down?

Evolving_ant

6th January 2004, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by epepke

I'm not going to flame you. I've never met anybody in swinging who was like the couple you described, but I'm sure there are people who tried it and found they didn't like it.

I do have to ask what is the value of declaring swingers particularly as sad, empty, lonely, and searching for something? It's one of those statements that is literally true, but what of it? I am attracted to swinging (or, at least I was; I haven't done it in years) because there were things there that I wanted, and it made me happier. One might as well describe people who want to go to college as "ignorant, uneducated," or people who are looking for jobs as "unemployed, layabout, deadbeat" or people who go to the hospital as "diseased, injured, unhealthy" but what is really the value, other than putting people down?

Even the term 'swinging' conjures up images of 60's sexuality revolutionaries in floral shirts and flowers in their hair who believed back then that it could all be so simple and that if everyone just let down their hair and climbed out of their anal retentive ways, the whole world would be makin' lerv. It was not that these people were any more sad or empty than Mr & Mrs Jones with their stablility, 2.5 kids and well-mannered ways while parts of the world were going to hell. It's just that whatever side of the fence people were on, people wanted simple answers and everyone else to be just like them. It's really threatening when people are different. Sexuality, especially, is a real shock to the system when someone strongly feels differently to the way you do. Assaults, insults and all kinds of injuries abound from all fence-sides. Like it or not, sexuality is a deeply personal issue and some people are completely comfortable about it and some just aint and both positions are completely valid. It's when one party demands of a different party that they be 'like them' or invades vulnerability, or pushes people into something they are in no way ready for (be that committment in relationship or non-committal sex out of or in relationship)that the real 'evils' and injuries occur. I've come to believe that some people just should not marry for instance; it's just not 'their way' and there's plenty out there who would be perfectly matched as casual encounters or short-term relationships or companions without strict commitment to some ideal of love. It may not even be that no love exists for such people, it's just that they may have such a strong sense of themselves as individuals that a full-on committed relationship may make them feel engulfed and thwarted from different life-experiences. They may also be very capable of rowing their boat, alone, so to speak. It's really an individual matter. Some simply love the cosiness, comfort, warmth and vibe of a loving, close relationship and feel absolutely no need or desire for a ton of other experiences. Some people grow more in that environ and some are stifled. We're all different. and that's cool. Only fascism and fear dictates that there can only be one _right_ way to express sexuality. Self-honesty, inner strength, reflection and self-respect as well as respect for other are what is really necessary to have the courage to walk the path that truly suits you, keeping in mind, there's consequences to every action.

ca3799

6th January 2004, 08:19 AM

"do have to ask what is the value of declaring swingers particularly as sad, empty, lonely, and searching for something? It's one of those statements that is literally true, but what of it? I am attracted to swinging (or, at least I was; I haven't done it in years) because there were things there that I wanted, and it made me happier. One might as well describe people who want to go to college as "ignorant, uneducated," or people who are looking for jobs as "unemployed, layabout, deadbeat" or people who go to the hospital as "diseased, injured, unhealthy" but what is really the value, other than putting people down?"

You are exactly right- I thought about that some over the weekend. I think the answer is in two things. The roomate was one of the worst roomies I ever had. He had pretty much every quality I don't like in a person, so certainly my overall view is colored some by my feeling about him.

I was also wondering if the documentary I saw had a slant that left me feeling sad for the people involved and I think it did. The two lasting impressions I had from the doc was death of the one man's wife (it happened before the doc's timeframe) and the sad couple mentioned above. I believe that interview with the couple was the last scene in the show also, and could have left the impression I have.

epepke

6th January 2004, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by Evolving_ant

Even the term 'swinging' conjures up images of 60's sexuality revolutionaries in floral shirts and flowers in their hair who believed back then that it could all be so simple and that if everyone just let down their hair and climbed out of their anal retentive ways, the whole world would be makin' lerv.

That comes across as clear and honest. Especially as "swinging" is not an autonym; it's more like "freak" and "queer" and "geek."

Unfortunately, I've always thought that the autonym of "the lifestyle" was a bit pompous; the term "lifestyle" suggests to me things like when you get up in the morning and whether you have Special K or Jimmy Deans Sausage Cheese and Egg biscuits for breakfast.

It was not that these people were any more sad or empty than Mr & Mrs Jones with their stablility, 2.5 kids and well-mannered ways while parts of the world were going to hell. It's just that whatever side of the fence people were on, people wanted simple answers and everyone else to be just like them. It's really threatening when people are different. Sexuality, especially, is a real shock to the system when someone strongly feels differently to the way you do. Assaults, insults and all kinds of injuries abound from all fence-sides. Like it or not, sexuality is a deeply personal issue and some people are completely comfortable about it and some just aint and both positions are completely valid. It's when one party demands of a different party that they be 'like them' or invades vulnerability, or pushes people into something they are in no way ready for (be that committment in relationship or non-committal sex out of or in relationship)that the real 'evils' and injuries occur.

And who, exactly, is doing this? It is possible for most people to go through their lives completely ignorant of "swinging." Unless one actually goes and seeks out specialized publications, one can easily ignore it. It's not like "swingers" go from door to door with copies of "swinging" publications.

Frankie

14th January 2004, 02:36 PM

Personally, I have no issues with the swinging scene or those that prescribe to such an activity. It is their choice to make, and not mine to judge.
It is one area I won't prescribe to, myself. Call me old fashioned, but I value loyalty and trust in a relationship very highly and believe in a single person relationship.

Evolving_ant

14th January 2004, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by epepke

That comes across as clear and honest. Especially as "swinging" is not an autonym; it's more like "freak" and "queer" and "geek."

Unfortunately, I've always thought that the autonym of "the lifestyle" was a bit pompous; the term "lifestyle" suggests to me things like when you get up in the morning and whether you have Special K or Jimmy Deans Sausage Cheese and Egg biscuits for breakfast.

And who, exactly, is doing this? It is possible for most people to go through their lives completely ignorant of "swinging." Unless one actually goes and seeks out specialized publications, one can easily ignore it. It's not like "swingers" go from door to door with copies of "swinging" publications.

Sorry, Ive been away. I wasn't referring specifically to swingers but rather how people from all walks and ways of life can get pushy or judgemental about sexuality. But ok, you're entirely right. The swinging life-style as a communal event can be by-passed completely if one has no interest in it assuming one is not already somehow involved with another already into swinging by way of marriage, intimate relationship or friendship. And infact, I have been judged for not wanting to partake in swinging, for being 'repressed and uncomfortable with my sexuality'. My friends have come around now to understand that this was a pretty damn hurtful and destructive attitude as well as off the mark. I know this sort of thing has happened with other people too. Ye all swingers are not all saints albeit keep a low community profile ;)

hawkins_anderson

10th February 2004, 09:54 PM

Xev

12th February 2004, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by hawkins_anderson

Only speaking for myself here, but marriage is about a deep sense of commitment to one person. This person represents the best parts of that which you have created together in your union. This union is formed out of love. Swinging deals with recreational sex as you put it. Some people find it perverted because there is not sense of love or honor in it and if making love is created out of love itself then how can married people give away something so precious to perfect strangers?

Maybe they see it differently. They see sharing as sensual. They like watching the other person be pleased by someone else. Giving something away means making each other feel good by watching, not doing. Just my opinion. To each their own, as long as you're happy, blah blah blah. I'm sure there are monogamous people who have preferences that are viewed by others as perverted as well. But, that's a whole other thread.

Nice forum, by the way. Glad to be here.

Xev

peptoabysmal

12th February 2004, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by ca3799
I had a roomate once, a single guy, who was into swinging (and prostitutes). He invited everyone around to join him, but as far as I know, noone did.

Years later, I watched a documentary called "The Lifestyle" (available from Netflix) about, well, the lifestyle of swinging. The doc covered several couples and single folks over the course of one year. One guy (whose wife had died) had a special sling chair for intercourse, and the party hosters often put down padded mats in the bedrooms.

The combination of the one swinger I knew (that I know about) and the documentary leaves me feeing that swingers are, and I don't mean to insult, but sad, empty, lonely, searching for something- stuff like that. Neither the roomate or the people I saw in the doc seemed to be especially enjoying themselves in many areas of their lives. One of the couples interviewed described the damage they felt had occured to their marriage- I can still see their sad faces in my mind.
-
Obviously, I don't swing and am not interested in swinging. I guess I too am a person who has difficulty separating sexual intimacy from 'recreation'.

That's my opinion. Before the flaming, please remember you asked for my opinion.

I lived as an adult through the seventies and have known several people who have tried this lifestyle when it was all the rage. All of them I knew ended up feeling betrayed and lonely and divorced. All that high talk goes out the door when the other woman has a hot bod or the other guy has a big ****. (Of course now I've gone back to being a child, but that is another matter)

Is it just me or does it seem like predominately guys are in favor of swinging?

As for me, one woman is about all the trouble I can handle. And I do love to handle her... :D

epepke

13th February 2004, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by Evolving_ant
And infact, I have been judged for not wanting to partake in swinging, for being 'repressed and uncomfortable with my sexuality'. My friends have come around now to understand that this was a pretty damn hurtful and destructive attitude as well as off the mark. I know this sort of thing has happened with other people too. Ye all swingers are not all saints albeit keep a low community profile ;)

It's too bad that happened to you, and I'm glad they came around.

epepke

13th February 2004, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
Is it just me or does it seem like predominately guys are in favor of swinging?

Swing clubs seem to be predominantly matriarchal.

BigShoeStu

17th February 2004, 01:43 PM

I have posted a new thread call "The Polyamorous (Many Loves) Lifestyl". I wanted to post here, but I felt it was getting off the subject of swinging. Regardless, I would like to hear some of your opinions on this thread if any of you have something to add.

Yeah, like this forum wouldn't have anything to say. :p

Ladyhawk

18th February 2004, 06:52 AM

Maybe I'm not into swinging coz I'm just lazy.. :D

I mean, why go to all that effort to dress up, go to a club, mingle with a bunch of strangers, try to find someone that appeals to you, (especially when you may already have an ideal someone on your arm) so that you can gather in some room and swap partners or whatever ...when the end result is the same? The Big O. That's it. It's the same whether provoked by one person or twenty, right? Now, granted, women tend to be more multi-orgasmic than men (shorter recovery periods, et al) so you'd think swinging would appeal more to women. Instead, it seems to appeal more to men who don't have as short a recovery period so are probably more limited in their ability to enjoy the "variety" offered by swinging.

I'm not trying to sound naive here but doesn't it follow that an orgasm is an orgasm is an orgasm? No matter what is engaged in to produce it, isn't the end result still the same?

Swinging just seems, IMHO, to be a far too ballyhooed lifestyle that doesn't produce any more, sexually, than a monogamous lifestyle would/can.... It does seem to hold far more risks, though, in that the potential of losing someone who is significant to you is far greater. Yes, I agree that swinging "tests" jealousy but it also provokes it by exposing your SO to other partners who could conceivably turn their head...permanently. It's a risk you run and, again, if both partners are open to it, Edspeed to them. However, it's a great alternative for folks who are not, nor do not want, to be in any kind of monogamous or committed relationship. It certainly provides a nice alternative to going to the movies alone on another Saturday night.. ;)