How big is the truther movement really?

[The Platypus]

What's the real numbers.

[BigAl]

Zero in the suburb I live in, Staten Island, NY, said to have the largest number of first responders and families of victims from WTC. I continue to see newly-purchased cars with new rear window stickers in memory of some fireman or some FDNY unit. There are issues of survives benefits and medial care for people with lung problems, but there is no hint of "inside job!".

[parky76]

its very very small. except on the internet. they are huuuuge on the net!!!

=)

[ozeco41]

its very very small. except on the internet. they are huuuuge on the net!!!

=)

The real problem if it is a problem is that the small number are a noisy head to a potentially large number of sheeple variously committed to follow or agree.

BUT in my experience (near Sydney, NSW, Australia) very few non internet persons interested AND few internet browsers interested.

So a naturally bounded demography.

[ULTIMA1]

They are still around and growing as time passes and no more reports are comming out on what really happened.

They are very big and growing in other countries.

[ozeco41]

They are still around and growing as time passes and no more reports are comming out on what really happened.

They are very big and growing in other countries.

That reads like typical "truther" innuendo ULTIMA1. The problem of not having numbers to work on.

(It would be an interesting census issue)

The legitimate role of such a movement as an outlet for community grieving should be mostly confined to US and persons with strong attachment to US.

[WildCat]

They are still around and growing as time passes and no more reports are comming out on what really happened.
There's not just "no more" reports on "what really happened", but no truther has ever come up with such a narrative!

Maybe you'll be the first Heiwa?

[The Platypus]

http://www.911truth.org/images/ZogbyPoll2007.pdf

I found this, it says those that think the gov't "made it happen" only 4.6% percent overall, and only 3.4% percent amongst Americans, and that's one of their own polls.

This looks to me like a fringe group.

[mark4mark]

It definitely peaked in 06'.

It's a miniscule cultural speck these days.

I bet it's somewhere in the 1 in 500 department.

[The Platypus]

They are still around and growing as time passes and no more reports are comming out on what really happened.

They are very big and growing in other countries.


That's the usual sales pitch but where's the evidence of that?

[contra]

I've found a few at my work, after a bit of searching, it turns out it was one person who has spread loose change 2 and zeitgist a few years ago.

I directed them to new information I thought they may like.


Then the company opened up an intranet with forums that everyone can talk in. Again 9/11 surfaced. I directed them to various places they could get up to date info, and answered direct questions they made (like where was the plane at the pentagon).

I've found none of these people call themselves truthers though, as they don't know the movement exists in all likelyhood.. And they are just people involved in insurance who saw a video.

[nicepants]

They are still around and growing as time passes and no more reports are comming out on what really happened.

They are very big and growing in other countries.

If you're referring to their physical size then I would tend to agree. Most of them are teenage boys whose hormones cause them to grow like weeds...however if you're referring to the total number of truthers then you would be mistaken.

Of the thousands of people I've come into contact with in the past 7 years...of the hundreds of protesters & activists I've seen in my city over the past 7 years, there's only ONE person I've met, in person, who I know to be a truther.....and that was in 2006.

[Sparky]

We had 1 here at my office.

Then I fired him.

[Mince]

I think the more relevant question is how many of those who have investigated 9/11 without using Google or YouTube are in the "truth" movment.

[beachnut]

They are still around and growing as time passes and no more reports are comming out on what really happened.

They are very big and growing in other countries.
Only people completely ignorant on 911 issues and unable to think for themselves join 911Truth. What a failed movement of do nothing dolts. No they loose members each day as they learn to think for themselves and gain knowledge. After leaving 911 Truth they are better for having cure themselves with education.

A doltish movement of weak-minded people led by frauds. Stop being weak-minded and stand up for yourself 911Truth cult members!

[TheDaver]

The last Truther messageboard I posted on had two members, including me.

[Metullus]

The last Truther messageboard I posted on had two members, including me.You were the other guy?:eek:

[UNLoVedRebel]

What's the real numbers.

Here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=129967)

[parky76]

truthers are very powerful..and still growing.

they are the silent minority...but they make up a good 25% of the USA.

but at any moment, when order 66 given, they will rise from their slumber and take back this country.

any day now. any day now.




.....any day now =)

[parky76]

They are still around and growing as time passes and no more reports are comming out on what really happened.

They are very big and growing in other countries.

yes, they are HUGE!!!!

just like New Coke!!!

:D

[TexasJack]

http://www.911truth.org/images/ZogbyPoll2007.pdf

I found this, it says those that think the gov't "made it happen" only 4.6% percent overall, and only 3.4% percent amongst Americans, and that's one of their own polls.

This looks to me like a fringe group.

The irony of that poll is that it was sponsored by truthers.

[John Blonn]

They are still around and growing as time passes and no more reports are comming out on what really happened.

They are very big and growing in other countries.

http://i43.tinypic.com/jztbwo.gif

[roundhead]

Those that only want the truth will always greatly outnumber those that try and hide it, no matter the issue.


Roundhead

[parky76]

Those that only want the truth will always greatly outnumber those that try and hide it, no matter the issue.


Roundhead

Um....didn't the Branch Davidians say the EXACT same thing??

And...um...the Jim Jones folks?

And...all the other nutcase cults in history?

Being small in number doesn't mean you are right. It simply means your views are VERY...VERY....UNPOPULAR.

=)

It is the zenith of arrogance to argue that "we are small in number because we are right".

[parky76]

http://www.911truth.org/images/ZogbyPoll2007.pdf

I found this, it says those that think the gov't "made it happen" only 4.6% percent overall, and only 3.4% percent amongst Americans, and that's one of their own polls.

This looks to me like a fringe group.

3.5% cannot be right. that would be 10.5 million truthers.

the number of active truthers is only in the high hundreds. maybe a few thousand.

i really doubt more then 10,000 people in this country believe that 9-11 was an inside job by the US govt. their attendance at rallies and events just doesn't confirm such a number.

when truthers have rallies, all over the country, year after year, and less then 1,000 people shows up, even in huge metro areas, that tells u something.

so either they are actually very very small in number...or they are huge in number and outright cowards.

[timhau]

They are still around and growing as time passes and no more reports are comming out on what really happened.

They are very big and growing in other countries.

What other countries? Syria?

[240-185]

I had seen some stats from Alexa on Dylan Avery's website. They were data from 2007.

Now:

http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/LC911.png
FAIL

http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/AE911.png
FAIL

[parky76]

What other countries? Syria?

I believe 9-11 Truth is very popular in Iran, Afghanistan, Russia, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela.

Basically, if they hate the USA...they LOVE 9-11 truth.

:D

[njslim]

Number of posts on "twofer" sites I watch have decreased significantly - mostly it is
same two dozen retards recycling same garbage over and over. Usually some variation
on what has been debunked - this week is Jones paper on "Nano Thermite" which stirred
up the loons...

[ULTIMA1]

What other countries? Syria?

Just a dozen other countries that you could see if you ever did any real research into 9/11 to know what was going on.

[funk de fino]

I believe 9-11 Truth is very popular in Iran, Afghanistan, Russia, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela.

Basically, if they hate the USA...they LOVE 9-11 truth.

:D

I've been to Russia a few times in the last 2 years and have never encountered a truther.

[parky76]

I've been to Russia a few times in the last 2 years and have never encountered a truther.

i know. russians and iranians are pretty well educated these days. hence, not many of them will be truthers. but the anti-western/anti-american folks will defenitly give 9-11 truth a minute of their time.

[Mr.Herbert]

Instead of getting sucked into the constant ignorance of Roger Misner....

Early this morning on rt3 southbound in Massachusetts... yes...

I saw one!!!!!

My FIRST TRUTHER!!!!!!!!!

Well, it was a bumper sticker on a Toyota Prius:
"911 -ASKING QUESTIONS DEMANDING ANSWERS"

I pulled up in the left lane to see who this was. (truthers have all they can do to afford bikes) It was a 50 something year old woman. I have to assume that it was her 20 something year old son still sleeping in her basement that put it on her car.

I am in Boston every day. This is only the second sighting of 911 truth that I have witnessed.

[parky76]

i have gone to Ground Zero several times during the last 9 months. i have never seen a truther during the week. i guess that's cause they are all in school. =)

[debunker9145]

They are a very small minority. I have never met nor do i know a single truther. I go to Texas A&M, and when that plane crashed into a house in Buffalo; I was in an on campus coffee shop and somebody came up to me and asked what was going on. I told him, then he asked if it was a terrorist attack and i said it looks like it was just a mechanical failure on the plane.
We even had Karl Rove come here and talk about Obama.

Now the University of Texas is another story. They allowed Richard Gage to come and spread his twoof. However only a number slightly larger than 100 showed up out of a school of nearly 50,000. And it is one of the most liberal universities in the country. That tells you it is a nothing more than a fringe movement. :D

[parky76]

Now the University of Texas is another story. They allowed Richard Gage to come and spread his twoof. However only a number slightly larger than 100 showed up out of a school of nearly 50,000. And it is one of the most liberal universities in the country. That tells you it is a nothing more than a fringe movement. :D

Nope. the other 35 million truthers wanted to come out, but they were afraid for their lives!! there are spies everywhere!!

so they just stayed home and watched "The New Yankee Workshop". :D

but they are out there!! just waiting to grab their guns once they get that call!!

truth revolution is near!!!


....as I said earlier, either there are very very few truthers, or there are a whole lot but they are all cowards.

[Alt+F4]

They are still around and growing as time passes...

No, they are not growing. In NYC (and Big Al....Staten Island is not a suburb of NYC :)), with a population of over 7 million. the turn out at the local monthly "truther" meetings is about 15, by their own admission.'

No city was more hurt by 9/11 than New York, and 99.99% of us know "truther" garbage is just that.

[twinstead]

I'd come out of the closet and join the truth movement if it weren't for my damn pension. I don't know what I'd do without that!

Uh oh. I think I've already said too much....

[SmartyPants]

I'd say they make anywhere from 1/5 to 1/3 of the population. That depends on what you mean by "Truther," though. The hardcore, dedicated ones can't make up much more than a couple thousand. But the ones who actually believe the "inside job" stuff make up a much larger segment of the population. Now, then, you have to decide what you mean by "believe." In most cases, I think Truthers are passive believers who look for a reason to hate the government in the sense that most people believe in JFK nonsense, and most of them don't take the time read the literature. And, of course, none of them, just like the hardcore fanatics, will ever begin a new investigation; they'll just accept 9/11 truth as gospel, believing "it's so obvious but, hey, what are you're gonna do."

Basically, it's the same number of gullible internet morons who are likely to believe in KFC mutant chickens. The fact that the "movement" began on the internet ought to give anyone great pause.

[parky76]

I'd say they make anywhere from 1/5 to 1/3 of the population. .

right. there are 100 million truthers in the USA.

the anti-Iraq War movement, was a popular movement. they had hundreds of thousands of people at their events.

9-11 truthers, get less then a hundred. sometimes less then 50.

1/100th of the population? i dont think so. more like .001%. that is 3,000 people.

and i am being very generous.

[twinstead]

Most truthers count those who haven't expressly stated they don't believe 911 was an inside job, especially experts in relative fields, as fellow truthers. Therefore, there may indeed be hundreds of millions of truthers out there from around the world.

[parky76]

Most truthers count those who haven't expressly stated they don't believe 911 was an inside job, especially experts in relative fields, as fellow truthers.

well, in that case, most of the planet Earth are 9-11 Truthers. Including ants, cats, chickens, and monkeys.

They haven't said they are NOT 9-11 truthers, therefore..they could be..right?

[SmartyPants]

right. there are 100 million truthers in the USA.

the anti-Iraq War movement, was a popular movement. they had hundreds of thousands of people at their events.

9-11 truthers, get less then a hundred. sometimes less then 50.

1/100th of the population? i dont think so. more like .001%. that is 3,000 people.

and i am being very generous.

Is it safe to assume that you didn't read the rest of my post where I qualified that statement? Granted, I could have been more specific.

Also, I don't think number of people at rallies or events are necessarily the most representative samples of an entire group, particularly in the manner in which one could describe a Truther.

[parky76]

Is it safe to assume that you didn't read the rest of my post where I qualified that statement? Granted, I could have been more specific.

Also, I don't think number of people at rallies or events are necessarily the most representative samples of an entire group, particularly in the manner in which one could describe a Truther.

i don't consider the joe schmoe at home, who tells some pollster on the phone:

"sure, the govt. may have done 9-11, now let me eat dinner" to be a real truther.

i consider truthers to be those folks who are somehow active, either on the net or at public gatherings or ourtreach or activism.

with that in mind, i stand by the .001% figure.

:D

[SmartyPants]

i don't consider the joe schmoe at home, who tells some pollster on the phone:

"sure, the govt. may have done 9-11, now let me eat dinner" to be a real truther.

i consider truthers to be those folks who are somehow active, either on the net or at public gatherings or ourtreach or activism.

with that in mind, i stand by the .001% figure.

:D

Fair enough. I'd say "the movement" is that large too, although I think the number of Truthers active on the net may be larger, though not substantially so.

[alex04]

no idea how big. But for one of the loose change members to have to embarrass the rest by posting an rant about having to prove how they DO manage to get laid, despite the NWO's best efforts to prove otherwise (they've got nothing better to do, right?)

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/blogentries/index.html?bbPostId=B1ghrr2nKXlgCzAxJ6JhFH8utCz7VI WVMFrUS5Cz5uDcthuikUs&bbParentWidgetId=B8wrmCBWsa0az3tnIdOjJ0dD

Cheers to Loose Change forums for the link.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/1467681/1/

There's a way to improve your movement's profile! Nice work!

[Lupie]

truthers are very powerful..and still growing.

they are the silent minority...but they make up a good 25% of the USA.

but at any moment, when order 66 given, they will rise from their slumber and take back this country.

any day now. any day now.




.....any day now =)

Order 66...

Does this mean that the truthers are actually a clone army genetically altered to be docile and follow the orders of The Dark Lord of the Sith without question?

It makes sense. The Troof can have a strong influence on the weak minded.:D

[SmartyPants]

no idea how big. But for one of the loose change members to have to embarrass the rest by posting an rant about having to prove how they DO manage to get laid, despite the NWO's best efforts to prove otherwise (they've got nothing better to do, right?)

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/blogentries/index.html?bbPostId=B1ghrr2nKXlgCzAxJ6JhFH8utCz7VI WVMFrUS5Cz5uDcthuikUs&bbParentWidgetId=B8wrmCBWsa0az3tnIdOjJ0dD

Cheers to Loose Change forums for the link.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/1467681/1/

There's a way to improve your movement's profile! Nice work!

Nice. The LC forum's self-congratulatory thread was good for a laugh.

[BigAl]

No, they are not growing. In NYC (and Big Al....Staten Island is not a suburb of NYC :)), with a population of over 7 million. the turn out at the local monthly "truther" meetings is about 15, by their own admission.'


Parse what I typed one more time... :)


Zero in the suburb I live in, Staten Island, NY, said to have the largest number of first responders and families of victims from WTC. ...

[timhau]

Just a dozen other countries that you could see if you ever did any real research into 9/11 to know what was going on.

If the twoof movement is big in 12 countries, it shouldn't be too hard to actually list those countries. Unless, of course, you're pulling all this right out of your backside.

[timhau]

with that in mind, i stand by the .001% figure.


Unless truthers are significantly more common outside NYC than in the city, that figure is optimistic. The above cited figure of 15 in a city of 7 million or so translates to roughly .0002 percent.

[Zorglub]

If the twoof movement is big in 12 countries, it shouldn't be too hard to actually list those countries. Unless, of course, you're pulling all this right out of your backside.

In sweden? Absolutely huge. At least with five-year olds.
See how many informative folders that are not there. They must´ve been going like hot cupcakes.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/KimNeilJung/335hbf6.jpg
(The sign at the bottom roughly translates to "Power saws terror and reaps obedience". I´d like to add - but still can´t stop stupidity.

And the turnout this december was a shocker to the goverment. Three people not beliveing the official story? Fluoride levels and chemtrails was shooting trough the roof a few days later.
http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/KimNeilJung/?action=view&current=25655450.jpg

[parky76]

Unless truthers are significantly more common outside NYC than in the city, that figure is optimistic. The above cited figure of 15 in a city of 7 million or so translates to roughly .0002 percent.

8 million people in NYC.

.001% of 8 million is 80.

80 active truthers who live in NYC? It might be more like .01% in urban areas.

i am willing to admit to 800 truthers in the 5 boros. see how generous I am?

:D

[J. Edward Tremlett]

Well, as I've mentioned before, we have a lot of them over at Op Ed News. They're very touchy, very self-righteous and very likely to lose their poo at you when you tell them you just don't agree with their views.

A current, very biased poll on the front page with 213 votes as of this writing has 64% in favor of "I belive the Bu$h cabal committed the Treason fomenting, heinous acts on 9/11" (sic). 16% felt "I believe the self-appointed Bu$h cabal was partially involved in 9/11".

Of course, some people may have voted more than once. It's not impossible. But that's I'd say that's a pretty good barometer of where the site's readers and writers are holding at, from my own experience.

As for personal, in the flesh connections, I had one person at a pagan gathering try to convince me that there were no planes involved in 9/11. I nodded and listened politely, since I didn't feel like having an argument in a registration line, and just avoided him the rest of the week

[firecoins]

If the JFK conspiracy group, holocaust denires and fake moon landing groups are representative, the movement will grow 20 or so years out of the actual event. We haven't seen anything.

One day, someone will turn Steven Jones into the star of an award winning movie much the way wak Oliver Stone did with whats his name in JFK.

[SmartyPants]

The goal is to defeat JREF and the debunkers, not to bring anyone to justice.

:D

If that's the case, then it's gonna be a long haul. According the LC Forums, there have been 26 users (8 members, 16 guests) online within the past hour (21 posts in the past day) with a grand total of 1,095 (no word if that includes the banned). The record number of users online at one time is 99. So, yeah, good luck with that, guys.

Not surprisingly, the most popular thread is the one about them getting laid.

[parky76]

21 posts in one day??

woooooowwww!!!!!!!!!!!!

=)

[rjh01]

The 9/11 conspiracy or any other conspiracy would be credible only when politicians during election campaigns started talking about the issue. Until then it it so small a minority the movement is too small to be an issue.

[Unsecured Coins]

i thought I met a truther because he had an infowars sticker on his truck, but when asked about it, he said he needed something to hold his window in place and that's all he could find. so... he allowed me to modify it for him

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/powers05/JOwned.jpg

[JimBenArm]

The Truth Movement is 5'7", 265 lbs., has dark hair cut in a mullet, wears torn jeans and a black T-shirt with some stupid slogan on it. His domicile is a small, two bedroom apartment, overrun with old pizza boxes, empty Yoo-Hoo bottles and three cases of handbills proclaiming the need for a new investigation that no one would take from him when he tried to pass them out.

His mother is so proud!

[T.A.M.]

The Truth Movement is 5'7", 265 lbs., has dark hair cut in a mullet, wears torn jeans and a black T-shirt with some stupid slogan on it. His domicile is a small, two bedroom apartment, overrun with old pizza boxes, empty Yoo-Hoo bottles and three cases of handbills proclaiming the need for a new investigation that no one would take from him when he tried to pass them out.

His mother is so proud!

Well at least he moved up and out of his mother's basement. SUCCESS...lol

TAM:)

[ACGravity]

Everyone should consider themselves a "9/11 Truther...
Who wouldn't want to know the Truth about 9/11??

[JimBenArm]

Everyone should consider themselves a "9/11 Truther...
Who wouldn't want to know the Truth about 9/11??
I do want to know the truth. That is why I'm not a 9/11 Truther. They are no more interested in the truth than the JFK EYE-DEE-Ten-TEE's are. They have an agenda to attend to, which has nothing to do with truth.

[beachnut]

Everyone should consider themselves a "9/11 Truther...
Who wouldn't want to know the Truth about 9/11?? You, as someone who support the lies of 911Truth.

The tiny fringe 911Truth movement is the one what does not want the truth on 911, they sell lies, hearsay, and delusions on DVD; there is a big sale now!

911Truth is a movement of lies; you can't see it you are pushing the lies of 911Truth like the super thermite lie believed by such a small minority you have not made the evening news as a band of conspiracy theorist with nut case ideas; yet.

[T.A.M.]

Everyone should consider themselves a "9/11 Truther...
Who wouldn't want to know the Truth about 9/11??

please do not play innocent or dumb here, it does not work. You know that when we refer to a truther, we are referring to those who are actively promoting the fallacies and lies (they call them theories) of the 9/11 truth movement.

TAM:)

[eromitlab]

Everyone should consider themselves a "9/11 Truther...
Who wouldn't want to know the Truth about 9/11??

Hence the reason 9/11 truthers themselves chose to call themselves "truthers"... so that later, it could be argued "how can you be against the truth?" Also, it's hard to discern that truth about anything is what they're after when you're done listening to their misrepresentations, blind appeals, contradictory talking points and lies.

[ozeco41]

Hence the reason 9/11 truthers themselves chose to call themselves "truthers"... so that later, it could be argued "how can you be against the truth?" Also, it's hard to discern that truth about anything is what they're after when you're done listening to their misrepresentations, blind appeals, contradictory talking points and lies.



Yes!!!

Standard trick of propaganda*

Commandeer a word to your meaning so those who really qualify are placed on the back foot.

They have to explain "we are true truth truthers and they are untrue truth truthers" and even I would get lost computing the double/triple/quad negatives. let alone those from languages where double negatives sum up non algebraically or English where it can do either depending on context.



* Not related to a correct male goose.

[Minadin]

* Not related to a correct male goose.

Let's not be hasty.

[ozeco41]

Originally Posted by ozeco41
* Not related to a correct male goose.Let's not be hasty.
Good advice - let's treat that as my preliminary hypothesis.

I would not wish to be goosed. :D

[Disbelief]

Well, I stayed off the forum for a few days as I was working at the house and playing with the kids over vacation, and the TM disappeared. No protests on TV, or breaking stories on the news about a "smoking gun."

[twinstead]

Yeppers. The truth movement is like a light switch. You turn off your computer, then POOF they're gone. Nothing. Turn the computer back on and POOF there they are again, still on internet forums, blogs, and conspiracy websites only. Turn the computer off and POOF. Nothing.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

[JimBenArm]

Yeppers. The truth movement is like a light switch. You turn off your computer, then POOF they're gone. Nothing. Turn the computer back on and POOF there they are again, still on internet forums, blogs, and conspiracy websites only. Turn the computer off and POOF. Nothing.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
No, it would be sad if it weren't so funny.

[ozeco41]

Yeppers. The truth movement is like a light switch. You turn off your computer, then POOF they're gone. Nothing. Turn the computer back on and POOF there they are again, still on internet forums, blogs, and conspiracy websites only. Turn the computer off and POOF. Nothing.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

Taking that one logical (?) step further - does it not implicate Symantec, McAfee, Grisoft et al in the conspiracy?

And look at the international spread implicit in just those three names.

We are doomed. Its a virus.

AND it is on this Linux machine. Possibly even Macs get it???

[twinstead]

No, it would be sad if it weren't so funny.

I always get those mixed up

[eromitlab]

Well, I stayed off the forum for a few days as I was working at the house and playing with the kids over vacation, and the TM disappeared. No protests on TV, or breaking stories on the news about a "smoking gun."

Well, you missed a doozy. There will no longer be smoking gun evidence coming from the troofer camp. Even they have been able to figure out they've worn the term out.

Now, as I saw in this mind-numbing tripe clad as a youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE_tuWKsBko) the other day relating to Jones' latest paper, they have replaced their smoking guns with loaded guns.


Yeah.

But rest assured, the nWo is still actively working to censor the troof so it never leaves its little internet bubble, just to stay on the safe side.

[cyclonic]

Well, you missed a doozy. There will no longer be smoking gun evidence coming from the troofer camp. Even they have been able to figure out they've worn the term out.

Now, as I saw in this mind-numbing tripe clad as a youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE_tuWKsBko) the other day relating to Jones' latest paper, they have replaced their smoking guns with loaded guns

Yeah, loaded with blanks.

The twoofers are going gaga over niels harrits danish tv msm interview
85,000 views 885 comments in 4 days.
i suspect niels is hosting the video himself and he deletes debunker comments and blocks them.
the 885+ comments are a stundie goldmine, even bofors is at it.
example:
darklordxor
"I love how the owner of the world trade center took a insurance policy and sold his buildings only weeks prior to the attack?
I wonder when this is uncovered who is gonna pay, and if there will be a revolution."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o

has english subtitles.

[ElMondoHummus]

The Truth Movement is 5'7", 265 lbs., has dark hair cut in a mullet, wears torn jeans and a black T-shirt with some stupid slogan on it. His domicile is a small, two bedroom apartment, overrun with old pizza boxes, empty Yoo-Hoo bottles and three cases of handbills proclaiming the need for a new investigation that no one would take from him when he tried to pass them out.

His mother is so proud!

Now now... no one ever called you out back when you were only 265 lbs, wore a mullet, had torn jeans and a black T-shirt, living in your apartment, yadda yadda...

;):D

Although I concede that your bottles weren't Yoo-Hoo, but Pabst Blue Ribbon. Oh wait, that only came in cans, didn't it. :boggled:

:D:p;)

[ElMondoHummus]

I do want to know the truth. That is why I'm not a 9/11 Truther. They are no more interested in the truth than the JFK EYE-DEE-Ten-TEE's are. They have an agenda to attend to, which has nothing to do with truth.

Careful, Jim. You're gonna blow your streak of content-free posts if you keep on making sense like that. :D

[BenBurch]

The only portion of the "truth" movement that shows any signs of growing are the ones who think the buildings were all brought down by terrorists with airliners - BUT that there was some complicity on the part of some government officials in getting them on those planes.

There is zero evidence of this, of course, but at least it does not have to deny observed reality.

[twinstead]

The only portion of the "truth" movement that shows any signs of growing are the ones who think the buildings were all brought down by terrorists with airliners - BUT that there was some complicity on the part of some government officials in getting them on those planes.

There is zero evidence of this, of course, but at least it does not have to deny observed reality.

Yup. LIHOP is the ONLY scenario that is even remotely arguable, albeit still without compelling evidence to support it, but that appears to not be 'cool' enough; space beams, nanothermite, and holograms are MUCH more romantic and exciting.

[ozeco41]

Yup. LIHOP is the ONLY scenario that is even remotely arguable, albeit still without compelling evidence to support it, but that appears to not be 'cool' enough; space beams, nanothermite, and holograms are MUCH more romantic and exciting.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster forbid that we ever get to discussing conspiracy.

The technical question of demolition or not (and Pentagon equivalent) is easy to demonstrate "no demolition" to any reasonable layperson who has no agenda to run.

And here we are years later still circling the same rubbish.

So anything as "wooly edged as "Conspiracy" will go nowhere.

[tfk]

Inspired by 240's source (thanks, guy) for web traffic, here are a couple of metrics for the size of the movement, as indicated by the traffic at Loose Change.

Loose Change traffic over the last 1.5 years.
http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=176&pictureid=941

You can see that, since the chart bottoms out at the top 100,000 sites, they've been hanging down in the "indistinguishable from zero" noise level on this graph. But they've basically been sitting at a pretty constant 400,000 or so.

Now, I need some metric to put this into perspective. I chose a "Rosie O'Donnell" comparison, since she'd tossed her dubious weight behind the movement. So here is the comparison between Rosie & LC.

LC vs Rosie, 10/08 - 04/09
http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=176&pictureid=940

Rosie's chart-line is in red. LC's chart-line are in blue. (Well, they would be if you could see them).

You can see that Rosie hangs in at a respectable (?) 80,000. By comparison, LC is still "off the charts". And not in a good way, from their perspective.

In short, Rosie consistently gets 6 to 10 x the traffic that LC gets.

And she doesn't even have a show any more. (Well, that I'm aware of...)

Can you say, "the dying embers ..."

tom

[WildCat]

I've had bowel movements bigger than the truth movement.

[rjh01]

For a better comparison look at this forum http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/forums.randi.org

Yesterday 40,440
7 day avg 34,535
1 month avg 30,322
3 month avg 31,822
3 month change -2,990

Or pilotsfor911truth http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/pilotsfor911truth.org/forum

Yesterday No data
7 day avg 1,352,411
1 month avg 781,103
3 month avg 861,546
3 month change -107,356
Going up but still a very small site.

[Mr X]

What's the real numbers.

some of you debunders are at pains (even to point of doin yourself an injury) to make out the truth movement is no consequence.

fair enough.... except it begs the question...... why are you all hanging around here then?

If it's of no consequence then why not just turn your computer off and do something more worthwile... instead of being glued to computer all day, painfully trying to counter any CTs...... I mean jeeesus! some of you have been glued to the screen for the last couple of years.... if it's of no consequence then why would you waste your energy here???

[Panoply_Prefect]

http://i43.tinypic.com/jztbwo.gif

Hey!

[JimBenArm]

some of you debunders are at pains (even to point of doin yourself an injury) to make out the truth movement is no consequence.

fair enough.... except it begs the question...... why are you all hanging around here then?

If it's of no consequence then why not just turn your computer off and do something more worthwile... instead of being glued to computer all day, painfully trying to counter any CTs...... I mean jeeesus! some of you have been glued to the screen for the last couple of years.... if it's of no consequence then why would you waste your energy here???
Because the morons are so freakin' funny! Where else can you get entertainment like this for free?

You have to pay hundreds of dollars to get this anywhere else!

[Drudgewire]

Because the morons are so freakin' funny! Where else can you get entertainment like this for free?

You have to pay hundreds of dollars to get this anywhere else!


This, although I have to add "because I wish there had been forums like this back when I was a delusional paranoid idiot to slap a little reality into me" too.

[Mr X]

Because the morons are so freakin' funny! Where else can you get entertainment like this for free?

You have to pay hundreds of dollars to get this anywhere else!



....... your answer is not very convincing ..... granted you might just be trying to be funny

[JimBenArm]

....... your answer is not very convincing ..... granted you might just be trying to be funny
Not very convincing? Have you read any of the stuff they post here? Really? Thermite, space beams, holograms, parachuting Israelis, North of Citgo crap? This is not made up, every bit of this has been posted here at one time or another. Maybe you think it's serious, but I find it unbelievably funny that anyone can actually post this stuff with a straight face. I really cannot believe they can actually tie their shoes without assistance, yet they are able to dream up the nonsense they do and post it here, all for my amusement!

[ElMondoHummus]

some of you debunders are at pains (even to point of doin yourself an injury) to make out the truth movement is no consequence.

fair enough.... except it begs the question...... why are you all hanging around here then?

If it's of no consequence then why not just turn your computer off and do something more worthwile... instead of being glued to computer all day, painfully trying to counter any CTs...... I mean jeeesus! some of you have been glued to the screen for the last couple of years.... if it's of no consequence then why would you waste your energy here???

Why are we all hanging around here? What, is "here" someplace important? There's no contradiction with the so-called "Truth" movement being irrelevant and our posting here at all. It's not like this is some wide-reaching platform. JREF is no Google, and no CNN.com. It's an online forum where some folks come to play.

If the so-called "Truth" movement was of genuine consequence, do you think any of us would restrict our activities to this place? Or don't you think there'd be a lot more in the public? Face it: This is a quarantine area for 9/11 lunatics. The more conspiracy addicts that come here, the less time they have to pollute other sites.

And why do we post here? For me, it's a hobby, mostly. And a time killer between important things to do. I don't think you'll find anyone here besides conspiracy peddlers who treat activity here as anything more than a secondary pursuit, and for a lot of us, it isn't even secondary. Hell, I spend more time fishing than I do "debunking", and that's not even my primary hobby.

The ironically named "Truth" movement is of no consequence. What political candidate besides marginal ones have even acknowledged its existence, let alone embraced its points? What effect has it had on popular fiction? There's been one TV show that mentioned trutherism, and it was in a laugable situation. What building codes have been modified? Zero. What science has been done in relation to it? Only Steven Jones and his cohort's work, and that is refuted quite firmly in other threads. The fact of the matter is, you need to seek out 9/11 trutherism, and most people who find it dismiss it. Only the occasional person ever actually embraces it.

It is simply an inconsequential movement. The fact that there's commentary on one site doesn't change that. You have to go out of the way to find 9/11 lunacy, and that alone proves it's irrelevance.

[JimBenArm]

And here I thought they had gone out and changed the local building codes to use pizza boxes, since they don't pulverize and dustify like concrete does.

[dudalb]

Yup. LIHOP is the ONLY scenario that is even remotely arguable, albeit still without compelling evidence to support it, but that appears to not be 'cool' enough; space beams, nanothermite, and holograms are MUCH more romantic and exciting.


Bingo. Given two conspiracy theories, one which at least a tiny amount of plausibility, and one which is batcrap crazy, the vast majority of CTers will support the second ...more emotionally satifying for some bizarre reason.

[1337m4n]

There's been one TV show that mentioned trutherism, and it was in a laugable situation.

I wanna see!

[BenBurch]

I've had bowel movements bigger than the truth movement.

Better looking, too, I bet.

[Drudgewire]

I wanna see!

dakyDB_Fskg

[Myriad]

I'll say this for the truth movement: it's giving the People Editing Clips From Harry Potter Movies To Make It Look Like Draco Malfoy And Hermione Granger Have A Romance Movement (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Draco%2FHermione&aq=f) a run for its money!

Though I think the Hermione/Draco Movement will overtake them sometime later this year. They're better at making videos about made-up stuff. Plus, they'll continue getting new source material for another few years, while the truth movement ran out years ago.

(Seriously, the Hermione/Draco Movement is bizarrely impressive, as well as being impressively bizarre. It's hard to imagine a more obscure or overly-specific hobby, but look at the YouTube lists. There are dozens if not hundreds of people putting serious time into it.)

Respectfully,
Myriad

[ElMondoHummus]

dakyDB_Fskg

Actually, I was talking about Rescue Me:

zu551QLGJog

He talks about PNAC. That's his freakin' basis. That's what was laughable: The fact that he was quoting such an old canard and obviously was going from truther material instead of reading the PNAC doc itself. Idiot needed to read 9/11 Myths page on the topic (http://www.911myths.com/html/new_pearl_harbour.html), and yes, I meant both the fictional character as well as the actor.

I'd forgotten it was done elsewhere. But yeah, that's a funnier clip.

[dudalb]

What is even better is that some Truthers are taking the scenes on "Rescue Me" as proof the movement is mainstreming and the truth is coming out...........

[Mr X]

.

And why do we post here? For me, it's a hobby, mostly. And a time killer between important things to do...
.


At over four and a half thousand posts, I don't think you've anything more important to do........ no???

which kind of contradicts your attempts to make the Truth Movement sound inconsequential.

[JimBenArm]

At over four and a half thousand posts, I don't think you've anything more important to do........ no???

which kind of contradicts your attempts to make the Truth Movement sound inconsequential.
Do you have any idea how many were posted in the CT forum? I know he posts quite a bit in Community, Sports and other parts of the forum. As do I. In fact, I post more in those sections. So, can you say "pointless post"? I knew you could! Oh, such a big boy you are!

[ElMondoHummus]

At over four and a half thousand posts, I don't think you've anything more important to do........ no???

which kind of contradicts your attempts to make the Truth Movement sound inconsequential.

Pff... try harder. Your argument's going nowhere.

ETA: Waitaminute... just reread that. You think the 4500+ posts means I don't have anything more important to do?? Take a look at my join date and do some math, genius. It works out to around 4 to 5 posts a day.

Yeah... that takes all my time. :rolleyes:

[ElMondoHummus]

Do you have any idea how many were posted in the CT forum? I know he posts quite a bit in Community, Sports and other parts of the forum. As do I. In fact, I post more in those sections. So, can you say "pointless post"? I knew you could! Oh, such a big boy you are!

Oh, he's just trying to deflect the argument. Fact of the matter is, I could be spending 8 hours a day continuously posting here, and that still doesn't mean that the conspiracy peddling movement is important. After all, who am I? My attention really makes it important? Heh... All it means is that I like observing lunacy do it's thing.

[1337m4n]

At over four and a half thousand posts, I don't think you've anything more important to do........ no???

which kind of contradicts your attempts to make the Truth Movement sound inconsequential.

You are trying to convince us that the Truth Movement is important by making posts like this?

Saying you're important doesn't make you important. You have to demonstrate it with action. You have to go out, and use the supposed "mountains of evidence" that you supposedly have to convince the people, the scientific community, the authorities, and the courts.

Are they all "in on it"? It is completely unrealistic for a conspiracy of that size to even exist, much less maintain secrecy. They cannot ALL be "in on it".

The Truth Movement has demonstrated almost zero action, which is what makes it inconsequential.

[JimBenArm]

See, I told you!

[Myriad]

I've cleaned well over 100 off-topic posts out of the thread, resulting from repeated, persistent, and apparently deliberate derails. This thread is about the size and influence of the truth movement. If you wish to advance, defend, or debate 9/11 conspiracy theory claims, use an existing thread on that topic or start a new thread. Please be mindful of Rule 11 and the Membership Agreement in general. Please report off-topic posts instead of responding to them.

[Tweeter]

What's the real numbers.
10`s of millions question the OS. You guys just want to count the ones with black t-shirts.

[beachnut]

p4t just added 10 or 12 more pilots.

p4t pile of evidence to support their lies is still the empty set.

It matters not how many people believe the earth is flat, it is still a failed idea.

No matter how many delusion believers 911Truth has, their failed ideas are just that.

p4t have grown so fast they may have broken the 0.00087% of all pilots in their camp with zero evidence; how can they be that dumb on 911 to fall for lies and delusions?

[Gavron]

I think the "movement" gets smaller and smaller every day. They are classified now in the same group a "bigfoot hunters", or "moon landing hoaxers". With the supposed truthers "promising" to post shocking new evidence (then failing to do so)...and not a single earth shattering "truth" story since 9/11.....it is apparent it is fading fast.

I give it maybe a couple years tops, before it fades away. Nobody cares anymore. Nothing new, no changes, no new "evidence". They have provided nothing.

[johnny karate]

10`s of millions question the OS. You guys just want to count the ones with black t-shirts.

Too bad it turned out to be tens of millions of the most ineffectual, impotent people on the planet for all the real-world impact they've had. Does the Truth Movement purposely seek out those who will never lift a finger to see justice done, or did it just coincidentally work out that way?

[Arus808]

10`s of millions question the OS. You guys just want to count the ones with black t-shirts.


dont be confusing that decimal point as a comma. 10,000.000 is only 10,000 (as that is the highest figure I've seen claimed)

[Gavron]

The web statistics at http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/911truth.org speak for themselves.

Old news...

[tfk]

10`s of millions question the OS. You guys just want to count the ones with black t-shirts.
I do believe that 10s of millions may well "believe that some bureaucrats and politicians in the chain played CYA". This is a far, FAR cry from "believe that they participated in mass murder & treason".

The Truth Movements facile hopping back & forth across this fence, depending on whether they are in "please sign our petition mode" or "demonstrating the gubbamint dunnit by popular vote mode" is both dishonest & annoying.

tom

[Bluesky]

It is sad to think that the Truth movement is sustained by people like us, and a few 9/11 activists. It doesn’t take much for the 9/11 activists to keep us enraged, since their arguments are both preposterous and deceptive, but perhaps it would be much better if we just ignored them.

Look at this thread, 110 posts in 3 weeks, and we are all talking about how pathetic the truth movement is.

9/11 truth activists like HEIWA has 2,173 posts in 2 years and Christpoher7 has 3,692 posts in 3 years. These activists can keep hundreds of us occupied with circular pointless arguments that give us the feeling that there is a battle to fight, when in fact there isn't. We give them what they crave the most: attention.

Anyway if we really want the truth movement to go away, I think we should just ignore them. I am signing off for a while.

[parky76]

The truth movement is sooo huge, that if you turn off your computer for a week, you will never ever hear about them or see them.

[ref]

Brainster presented (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4696814&postcount=110) the unique 9/11 blogger visitor statistics, and I put them into a chart.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/136394a0aacd7e25f5.jpg

Not very promising year-over-year stats. And remember, April 2009 saw the release of the "Active Thermitic Material" -paper, which has been pretty much the single biggest truther development (and the only development for that matter) of the recent truther history, and they still couldn't reach the 2008 numbers.

The only thing showing any growth at all seems to be the AE911Truth membership figures (and we know how reliable those are). Here is a chart of A&E members of AE911truth, including 12 data points that I could recover on short notice.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/136394a0aacd807869.jpg

On their way to break 700 this year.

But remember, their September 2008 goal was 1000. They revised it to a September 2009 goal of 1000.

They have grown constantly by about 300 members year-over-year. So the current prediction is about 770 A&E's by September 2009.

As you can see, I'm having a quiet day :cool:


ETA: That AE911Truth growth seems suspiciously linear, don't you think? Almost no variation at all, pretty much a straight line.

[Klimax]

The only thing showing any growth at all seems to be the AE911Truth membership figures (and we know how reliable those are). Here is a chart of A&E members of AE911truth, including 12 data points that I could recover on short notice.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/136394a0aacd807869.jpg

On their way to break 700 this year.

But remember, their September 2008 goal was 1000. They revised it to a September 2009 goal of 1000.

They have grown constantly by about 300 members year-over-year. So the current prediction is about 770 A&E's by September 2009.

As you can see, I'm having a quiet day :cool:


ETA: That AE911Truth growth seems suspiciously linear, don't you think? Almost no variation at all, pretty much a straight line.

Are there total members or only active?

About linearity.What could be expected?Any datas from different sites and/or truther sites?

[alienentity]

I notice Dr. Judy Wood and her sycophants have hitched a ride on John Hutchison's WooWagon, such that they are getting exposure on Coast to Coast radio.

This is a fairly shrewd move iMHO, as they get to link into the established 'free energy', Area 51/Aliens/Chemtrail and other fringe pseudoscience markets, not specific to 9/11.

The downside is, this Hutchison/9-11 stuff is so untested, vague and off-the-wall, it's little more than a sideshow curiosity. In other words, 'who cares?'.

I'm fascinated that, just as Dr. Wood claims to be getting traction, discussion about her ideas has dropped off a cliff on the JREF forums. If relevance is any measure of JREF activity (probably isn't) then apparently Dr. Wood is completely irrelevant.

I just love how Dr. Judy accuses Fetzer and Jones of being part of PsyOps/Disinfo, and they feel the same way about her. LOL

Honestly, it's like watching inmates in a lunatic asylum argue about who is crazier. Interesting in a morbid kind of way.

[T.A.M.]

Interesting, as I thought Fetzer had aligned himself with Judy and Morgan Reynolds, when the split at Scholars occured. So as predicted, even within the subgroup, they are turning on each other.

TAM:)

[alienentity]

Interesting, as I thought Fetzer had aligned himself with Judy and Morgan Reynolds, when the split at Scholars occured. So as predicted, even within the subgroup, they are turning on each other.

TAM:)


http://www.checktheevidence.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=208&Itemid=60

[Minadin]

Would someone just PM me when it's safe to poke the Truth Movement with a stick, please?

[alienentity]

TAM, you are quite correct that Fetzer has been a JW DEW supporter.

Lately she's been insinuating that Fetzer is part of the psy-ops though. I don't have a precise reference, but I hope my memory is correct! I could be confusing things, as this stuff numbs the brain after awhile. hehe.

[JoeyDonuts]

Where's Arte Johnson when you need him?

[ref]

About linearity.What could be expected?

Maybe times of faster and slower growth. I don't know, that's just speculation. I tend not to trust anything coming out of that site :)

For example, they made a huge effort of getting 1000 members by September 11th, 2008. All the summer 2008 they bombarded every architect or engineer they could find with e-mails. But the growth line didn't get any steeper, the effort had no effect. After that period, the fall of 2008 and the winter of 2009 have been pretty slow at AE911Truth land. Nothing significant happening, no big efforts, they even had a period with no appearances or speeches anywhere. And that had no effect on the pace of the growth either.

Lesson learned? If those numbers are for real, they should keep all the donation money for themselves and make no effort to grow faster. All the effort is for nothing, as they will grow at the same constant rate anyway :)

[T.A.M.]

TAM, you are quite correct that Fetzer has been a JW DEW supporter.

Lately she's been insinuating that Fetzer is part of the psy-ops though. I don't have a precise reference, but I hope my memory is correct! I could be confusing things, as this stuff numbs the brain after awhile. hehe.

Paranoia big Destroya!

I love it. I only wish the truthers here would do the same...hmmmm

Maybe with a little help, they might...we could pit Ultima1, versus a noplaner like Kreel...lol

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

Would someone just PM me when it's safe to poke the Truth Movement with a stick, please?

As long as they are on INTERNET life support, they will always cling to life. We need to pull the plug. This actually works. If you turn your computer off, and go out into the real world, these guys don't exist.

TAM:)

[Klimax]

Maybe times of faster and slower growth. I don't know, that's just speculation. I tend not to trust anything coming out of that site :)

For example, they made a huge effort of getting 1000 members by September 11th, 2008. All the summer 2008 they bombarded every architect or engineer they could find with e-mails. But the growth line didn't get any steeper, the effort had no effect. After that period, the fall of 2008 and the winter of 2009 have been pretty slow at AE911Truth land. Nothing significant happening, no big efforts, they even had a period with no appearances or speeches anywhere. And that had no effect on the pace of the growth either.

Lesson learned? If those numbers are for real, they should keep all the donation money for themselves and make no effort to grow faster. All the effort is for nothing, as they will grow at the same constant rate anyway :)

Didn't realise.Well,we all will see next time that they learned...(even if the only thing)

[JoeyDonuts]

How big is the truther movement really? Right now, I'm thinking at least one too many.

[jhunter1163]

From LCF's stats bar:

There have been a total of 20 posts made in the last 24 hours.

Tee hee!

[Comsat Angel]

10`s of millions question the OS. You guys just want to count the ones with black t-shirts.

Ah. Twoofer math at work.

[BigAl]

10`s of millions question the OS. You guys just want to count the ones with black t-shirts.

Counting the "black t-shirts" we are still at zero here where most of the families of firemen and victims live and nearly zero at Ground Zero in Manhattan.

I watch the "Truth" event videos and count heads. I never see more than a dozen people in a group shot in a city like NY or LA and the biggest group I've counted was 20 and it was in Washington D.C. on inauguration day when there were a million Democrats walking around looking for a place to go inside and warm up.

When the "Half Truth Movement" wants a crowd shot they drag one up from 2006.

[jhunter1163]

When the "Half Truth Movement" wants a crowd shot they drag one up from 2006.

You think it's as much as half true?

[patchbunny]

10`s of millions question the OS. You guys just want to count the ones with black t-shirts.

Shouldn't that be "10's out of millions question the OS."?

[Bluesky]

Shouldn't that be "10's out of millions question the OS."?

Richard Gage must be one of the most compelling key speakers in the world, (according to him). From his ae911truth web site he has spoken to 6,430 people in the US and after listening to him only 26 beleive the twin towers were brought down by the fires, and only 140 are unsure. The rest (97.5%)believe that the towers were brought down by explosives.

So why doesn't he give a paper at the next AISC Convention in Pheonix where 4,000 structural engineers will attend. Its an open invite and hundreds of papers will be presented. Only 80 civil/structural engineers have signed his petition so far, out of the hunderds of thousands in the US. So he could do with some more support.

Of course, structural/civil engineers can see many of the holes in his arguments so they would be unlikely to support. I guess that when people wake up after listening to Gage speak, they realize that they must have been dreaming. The numbers he claims are never reflected in their petition.

These claims of success, like most of the ae9/11truth are untruthful and illogical. How can their "success" be reflected by so little support. It is clear that the ae911truth folks are just twisting the truth to try and make themselves look better.

They claim that their buying a booth at the AIA Convention was a "great success" when they got another 20 architects to sign their petition, out of the 20,000 attendees. How does this compare with their 97.5% abilty to convince people that the towers were demolished by controlled demolition.

10's out of millions question the OS

[Allen773]

I'm sure millions of people have issues with the official story.

I'm also sure that the actual number of LIHOPers is significantly smaller, and that the MIHOPers are even more isolated and decreasing.

[Justin39640]

I'm sure millions of people have issues with the official story.

I'm also sure that the actual number of LIHOPers is significantly smaller, and that the MIHOPers are even more isolated and decreasing.

i lean slightly LIHOP as it is harder to prove/disprove leaving a little room for doubt

but my guy feeling is that it was a fubar all the way up and down the ladder

Richard Clarke:
I am appreciative of the opportunity the Commission is offering for me to provide my
observations about what went wrong in the struggle against al Qida, both before and after
9-11. I want the families of the victims to know that we tried to stop those attacks, that
some people tried very hard. I want them to know why we failed and what I think we
need to do to insure that nothing like that ever happens again.

[Tweeter]

You lean slightly lihop, yet your guy feeling thinks its fubar.
Pssst..there is no guy feeling in critical thinking. LMFAO

[atecom]

You lean slightly lihop, yet your guy feeling thinks its fubar.
Pssst..there is no guy feeling in critical thinking. LMFAO

Which is why he said he might be LIHOP, rather than presenting his gut feeling as a fact.

[T.A.M.]

You lean slightly lihop, yet your guy feeling thinks its fubar.
Pssst..there is no guy feeling in critical thinking. LMFAO

It is just a guess, but "y" is next to "t" on the keyboard.

Are you reduced to mocking a typo now tweeter?

TAM:)

[Dave Rogers]

Are you reduced to mocking a typo now tweeter?

Reduced?

Dave

[Justin39640]

You lean slightly lihop, yet your guy feeling thinks its fubar.
Pssst..there is no guy feeling in critical thinking. LMFAO

yup that was a typo obviously

guy = gut

wouldnt a critical thinker notice an obvious typo from another poster?

[Tweeter]

Ok, I will assume it was only a freudian slip.:)
But i dont think a gut feeling has any place in critical thinking, which was my point all along.

[JoeyDonuts]

Ok, I will assume it was only a freudian slip.:)
But i dont think a gut feeling has any place in critical thinking, which was my point all along.

It can point you in a direction, inspire you to take a new approach on a problem or dillemma but it doesn't prove anything in and of its own accord if it doesn't lead to scientifically viable evidence.

When you have a pile of empirical, anecdotal, circumstantial, and archival evidence that contradicts your 'gut feeling' towards a particular issue, one might just need to accept that their gut was wrong.

Or, you traipse around old bed/breakfasts and warehouses with infared equipment and sell your 'ghost-hunting' reality show to the Discovery Channel.

Or claim that AA77 flew over the top of the Pentagon, WTC1&2 were destroyed by Hutchison-Effect Laser Beams, cutter charges, hush-a-booms, thermite, and so on.

[Bluesky]

I had another look at the ae911truth web site the other day.

I went through the petition list and counted 120 architects, and 80 structural/civil engineers... and a bunch of certified lawn engineers and the like. Has anyone been through their list recently?

This compares to the 831 claimed by ae911tm. Well by the time they get to the 10th anniversary they should have 1000 architects, structural engineers and lawn engineers on their list, or about 250 architects and structural engineers.

I see that after 8 years they have now got a structural engineer who claims to have designed a highrise building. Does anyone know about Robert Merceau, PE.

[WUBRINY63]

How big is the truther movement really?

Apparently big enough to keep this place going. I'll bet this little corner of the JREF is one of the busiest.

[defaultdotxbe]

I see that after 8 years they have now got a structural engineer who claims to have designed a highrise building. Does anyone know about Robert Merceau, PE.
a google search brings up his ae911t bio as the first hit, and a comment on some obscure news piece regarding regarding presidential assassination programs (IE clinton death list) as the second hit (and that is just a C/P of the first hit, lol)

the rest of the first page of hits dont appear to refer to him at all


his ae911t bio says he was project manager for the Mirage in las vegas (not sure what that entails) "part of team" for bank one ballpark (chase field since 2005, must not be keeping track of projects) and he has designed unnamed high rise office buildings and parking structures

[Dave Rogers]

I'll bet this little corner of the JREF is one of the busiest.

Of course, being a truther you'll just guess that and assume you're right, because it would be too much effort for you to actually check.

Dave