University Research Report

[Hannah_1989]

Hello JREF Users,

My name is Hannah, I am 20 years and studying at the University of Gloucestershire in the UK.

I am undertaking a research project on 9/11 truth seeking communities.

Would you be willing to possibly answer some of my questions regarding 9/11 online communities?

I would be so grateful if you could help me, if you are willing to help I will explain everything about my assignment fully.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. If you have any queries my email is s0705585@glos.ac.uk. I am new to this forum, and haven't been active in online communities for quite some time. Your help, assistance and advice/suggestions will be gratefully received!

Many thanks
Hannah :)

[Alt+F4]

Welcome to the sub-forum Hannah. What are your questions?

[Hannah_1989]

Hi Alt+F4, thank you for responding!

My questions are:

1) In what ways, and to what extent have …have online truth seeking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?

2) Can you describe the ways in which this online community supports your views?

3) What, in particular, do you like about the environment of this forum?

4) How often do you contribute to this forum?

5) Do you feel that the media supports your views on 9/11? If so, how?

6) Do you consider the online community you are part of to be a serious and important part of your life or more of a hobby? Can you give an example of the ways in which the online community fulfils your needs/aspirations/goals?

I am more than happy to explain the details of my assignment if you feel the need to know more about what I am doing.

Many thanks

Hannah

[T.A.M.]

A1. In no way have the communities influenced my views on the 9/11 attacks.
A2. The online community I am a part of, this forum, is predominantly in support of my view, which is keeping with the official explanation of 9/11
A3. This forum and its users have a low tolerance for illogical and irrational thought and behaviour. I appreciate this approach.
A4. I contribute frequently, though less than I use to.
A5. Yes the media supports my views. Most believe the official account of 9/11.
A6. Hobby, though an interesting one. It rids me of boredom.

TAM:)

[A W Smith]

That research project has already been done over a year ago.

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/2007truthmovementpoll

[TexasJack]

1. None, I believe in evidence, logic and objectivity, truthers don't possess any of those qualities.

2. They are supported by evidence and expertise by posters in a particular areas concerning 911.

3. Argumentation has always interested me.

4. I would say infrequently, I like to visit other parts of JREF as well.

5. Yes.

6. Definitely a hobby. I'm greatly amused by the illogical and fact-free posts by truthers as they continue to try to shove that square peg into the round hole.

[Hannah_1989]

Thank you for your answers,

I am aware that the research project has been done, but this is for a university assignment I have to do. I need up to date answers.

Thanks again,

Hannah

[A W Smith]

Thank you for your answers,

I am aware that the research project has been done, but this is for a university assignment I have to do. I need up to date answers.

Thanks again,

Hannah

Just out of curiosity Hanna. Where else have you posted this request?

[thought_fugitive]

For A W Smith, the only other place I saw on Google is a generic Truth forum.

Hi,

I found this forum through typing "9/11 conspiracy theory forums" on Google. As for my take on 9/11 - I think it was planned by the Government. Bush's connections to the oil industry - I think 9/11 was a reason to start a war for financial benefits. The destruction of 7WTC enhances my opinions, it just seems that it was quite handy that the building that holds the secret service and CIA etc, got destroyed, losing everything.

Hannah

http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=6396

As for my answers;

1. The communities have had little influence on me mostly because of the demeanor of the participating members. Some of the leaders and public figures were the source of my initial suspicions but the community was one of the main deterrents.

2. This community welcomes skepticism and searching for the truth but they are merciless on those who do not express their skepticism in a rational way.

3. The forum has very intelligent members who regularly present thorough explanations of arguments and they're very helpful to those who have honest questions that they haven't been able to find answers for.

4. Minimally.

5. "The media," in my opinion, isn't a uniform entity, not even the mainstream media.

6. I'd consider this community to be a hobby where I can find a wide variety of different beliefs on contemporary events of all sort. In general, I don't rely on things such as an online community to fulfill any needs or goals, even if I can't figure them out on my own.

[jaydeehess]

1) In what ways, and to what extent have …have online truth seeking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?

I have been , or am, a member of
Loose Change forums
Pravda english forums
The Blackvault
Pilots for 911 truth
liberty forum
Apollohoax forum
BAUT forum
JREF
and a few others whose exact names now escape me.

I have found that the forums where the members are predominantly educated in technical feilds and who's members do not believe in any gov't conspiracy on 9/11/01 , such as this one or Apollohoax, are the most compelling.

Nothing from the proponents of a vast gov't or shadow gov't conspiracy is compelling in the least

2) Can you describe the ways in which this online community supports your views?

Using reasoned and science based fact to make an arguement

3) What, in particular, do you like about the environment of this forum?

See my answer to #2

4) How often do you contribute to this forum?

4-6 times a week on average.

5) Do you feel that the media supports your views on 9/11? If so, how?

HOW 9/11 unfolded is old news now. It is accepted that 19 Islamic fundementalists who believed their organization was at war with the west, and the USA in particular, hijacked 4 aircraft and flew, or attempted to fly, them into select targets representing American wealth and power.

6) Do you consider the online community you are part of to be a serious and important part of your life or more of a hobby? Can you give an example of the ways in which the online community fulfils your needs/aspirations/goals?

This forum attempts to do what I also attempt to do. That is to fight idiocy that it propigated as fact.

I am more than happy to explain the details of my assignment if you feel the need to know more about what I am doing.

Hannah

Yes please.
I would like to know what other forums you have posted on.

[ozeco41]

Hannah Are you only interested in opinions based on this forum?

Most of my 9/11 experiences - probably over 1000 posts - is from another forum. My answers would be different depending on how you want me to approach the survey. Do you want a composite answer? Separate answers? or ONLY a Randi forum focus?

[TexasJack]

Hannah_1989, apparently you believe that 911 was an inside job, have you researched the topic thoroughly?

[Brainster]

Hi Alt+F4, thank you for responding!

My questions are:

1) In what ways, and to what extent have …have online truth seeking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?

They have given me a much better understanding of the true heroism that went on that day, by people like Frand DeMartini, Betty Ong, Amy Sweeney, and many others that I would not have heard about otherwise.

2) Can you describe the ways in which this online community supports your views?

Not sure what you mean here.

3) What, in particular, do you like about the environment of this forum?

Lots of experts in relevant fields plus a fair amount of generalists like me.

4) How often do you contribute to this forum?

Roughly once a day, if we're talking solely about the 9-11 conspiracies page.

5) Do you feel that the media supports your views on 9/11? If so, how?

Yes, the vast majority of the mainstream media believes the 9-11 attacks happened as described in the 9-11 Commission Report.

6) Do you consider the online community you are part of to be a serious and important part of your life or more of a hobby? Can you give an example of the ways in which the online community fulfils your needs/aspirations/goals?

I do see it as a "calling"; something I am compelled to do for the greater good. JREF gives me access to people who have expertise in particular areas where I don't have the background.

[Pardalis]

1) In what ways, and to what extent have …have online truth seeking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?

They haven't at all, but they did help increase my critical thinking skills, and validate even more the official story.

They mostly have helped me understand the human mind better, how denialism can easily take over unsuspecting people, how critical thinking and skepticism are even more important today, in the internet age.

If you really want to know about the truther communities, you should read on cults and about denialist movements, they are frighteningly similar in operation.

ETA: by "truth seeking communities", I imagine you are referring to communities who push for the conspiracy theory.

In my response I take it that JREF is not such a community.

[Foolmewunz]

Hannah,
Do you realize that this is The Evil JREF, home of the nasty of nasties, a certain Mark, Gravy, Roberts (d.b.a. Binglybert Somethingorother for over a fiftieth of a century), and the foulest most evil place in the universe (according to Loose Change Forums, The vaunted Citizen Investigoogle Team, and Pilots for Gossip and Innuendo.

In short, this is the place of debunking of this lunacy. Just because we're referred to often does not mean we are loved.

From the sounds of your questions, you are asking them of Truther communities. That's not us. If you want to poll the lifestyles of the Jacobins, you find a better starting place than Marie Antoinette's garden party at Versailles.

[GlennB]

Thank you for taking the time to read this. If you have any queries my email is s0705585@glos.ac.uk. I am new to this forum, and haven't been active in online communities for quite some time.

Not just an innocent, neutral research enquiry is it, eh Hannah ?

from this forum (http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=1&t=6396)

"As for my take on 9/11 - I think it was planned by the Government. Bush's connections to the oil industry " (Hannah_1989, very similar introductory query)

This kind of thing happens a lot here.

[T.A.M.]

Not just an innocent, neutral research enquiry is it, eh Hannah ?

from this forum (http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=1&t=6396)

"As for my take on 9/11 - I think it was planned by the Government. Bush's connections to the oil industry " (Hannah_1989, very similar introductory query)

This kind of thing happens a lot here.

Ahhh, well let us assume she mistakenly thought we were a truther forum, before assuming anything else.

Her questions are fine, and do not seem to be skewed in anyway.

And if it is an attempt to produce a survey of 9/11 debunkers, so what....we are what we are.

TAM:)

[Hannah_1989]

Thank you all very much for you answers.

Ozeco41 - could I have a composite answer please?!

GlennB - Yes, I have posted on another forum, but it seemed that I went about introducing myself in the wrong way and seemed to offend people. My message on that forum was posted yesterday, before that I have not participated in online forums for a considerable amount of time. I'm not trying to fool anyone. I am just trying to complete my work.

Sorry if I appear to be misleading.

Hannah

[T.A.M.]

Hannah;

Are you trying to assess the demographics etc... of the 9/11 truth movement and their websites?

This site, while it has 9/11 truth movement members, is about 95% 9/11 truth DEBUNKERS (those who try to debunk the 9/11 Conspiracy theories).

The confusion is over what group you are trying to analyze with your report. The data you get from this site, for instance, will be a polar opposite to the data you will collect from 911blogger or LooseChangeForum...

TAM:)

[Hannah_1989]

Sorry, I just read that some are asking what other forums I had posted on - I posted on 9/11movement.org forum.

For those that answered my questions, could you state your gender and age (if you want to). This is only to help me see if there are any similarities in gender/age groups.

Regards

Hannah

[fuelair]

Fairly said T.A.M.!!
Truthers writings here are so clearly scientifically inept that other that to make me laugh or feel frustrated at the stupid they have had no effect to change or strenthen or weaken my attitudes coming in (never heard of the truthers before I got here).

2) The rational, most of us, are in agreement.

3)Fun, educational, the occasional chance to help.

4) almost daily

5)Most of it. Because I do not daily hear or see insane/incompetant claims in that media.

6)Reasonable importance as there are several here I do enjoy conversing with and the topics are usually intersting - and not too many people where I am with interests that wide! On the other hand I also work fine with non-online people and have a weird but entertaining life in the non-online world:)

[Hannah_1989]

T.A.M - it does seem I have confused myself with this forum. I appear to have thought that it was a truther community!! Oh dear, bet you can't believe I'm a University student can you?! Feel like an idiot now.

However, your answers/opinions/views are all still helpful. My assignment allowed me to set my own question, so it is easy enough for me to change it!

Thanks for all your assistance!

Hannah

[thought_fugitive]

loud out laugh

[thought_fugitive]

As for my answers;

1. The communities have had little influence on me mostly because of the demeanor of the participating members. Some of the leaders and public figures were the source of my initial suspicions but the community was one of the main deterrents.

2. This community welcomes skepticism and searching for the truth but they are merciless on those who do not express their skepticism in a rational way.

3. The forum has very intelligent members who regularly present thorough explanations of arguments and they're very helpful to those who have honest questions that they haven't been able to find answers for.

4. Minimally.

5. "The media," in my opinion, isn't a uniform entity, not even the mainstream media.

6. I'd consider this community to be a hobby where I can find a wide variety of different beliefs on contemporary events of all sort. In general, I don't rely on things such as an online community to fulfill any needs or goals, even if I can't figure them out on my own.

male, 20 years old. 8_8

[Hannah_1989]

Thought I would edit my first question due to my mistake!

1) In what ways, and to what extent have online 9/11 debunking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?

[Firestone]

1) In what ways, and to what extent have …have online truth seeking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?Only to the extent that the shere amout of logical fallacies, wrong physics, outright lies, selective quoting, etc ... found on the so-called "truth" seeking communities has reinforced my view that the 9/11-attacks were not an inside job.

2) Can you describe the ways in which this online community supports your views?On this forum there are people who know specific aspects of 9/11 in great depth, and they helped me understand certain points concerning the events on 9/11 (for example, the precise way WTC 1/2 collapsed, or the precise working of NORAD).

3) What, in particular, do you like about the environment of this forum?While there is a lot of silly bickering (as on any forum), each and every relevant aspect of the 9/11-attacks has been dealt in depth here.

4) How often do you contribute to this forum?Not a lot. I lurk, but there is now little for me to contribute about the 9/11-attacks.
The new discussions, like the one about Jones' last paper, are way above my head as far as the chemistry is concerned. Most other subjects have been dealt with, and I don't feel the need to confront truthers for the 1000th time about living hijackers, no Arabs on the flight-manifest, NORAD-standdown, Mineta, dancing Jews, etc etc etc (ad nauseum)

5) Do you feel that the media supports your views on 9/11? If so, how?Yes.
For evident reasons each and every quality newspaper in the world considers the 9/11-inside job theories as utter nonsense.

6) Do you consider the online community you are part of to be a serious and important part of your life or more of a hobby? Can you give an example of the ways in which the online community fulfils your needs/aspirations/goals?Hobby.

Firestone, F, 30+

ETA:

Your adapted question 1:
1) In what ways, and to what extent have online 9/11 debunking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?Not fundamentaly, but, as said above, they helped me better understand specific aspects.

[JimBenArm]

My questions are:

1) In what ways, and to what extent have …have online truth seeking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?This community has only made me more aware of the lunacy of people who believe in outlandish conspiracies.

2) Can you describe the ways in which this online community supports your views? The majority here believe they are lunatics, also.

3) What, in particular, do you like about the environment of this forum?It's a requirement of the membership agreement to not make arguments personal. Those that are unable to separate the argument from the person making the argument don't last long.

4) How often do you contribute to this forum?More than most people like. Most days, although not so much in the conspiracy section any more.

5) Do you feel that the media supports your views on 9/11? If so, how?I don't think the media pays any attention to this subject any more. When they did, they were definitely on the side of rationality for the most part. See Popular Mechanics, for example.

6) Do you consider the online community you are part of to be a serious and important part of your life or more of a hobby? Can you give an example of the ways in which the online community fulfils your needs/aspirations/goals?Hobby. Got along before I got here, I'll survive it if it disappears.

[Minadin]

There's also a couple of older topics re: demographics here, such as -

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=137147

and

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=70895

if those help at all.

[jaydeehess]

Sorry, I just read that some are asking what other forums I had posted on - I posted on 9/11movement.org forum.

For those that answered my questions, could you state your gender and age (if you want to). This is only to help me see if there are any similarities in gender/age groups.

Regards

Hannah

male, 50+ and a college graduate (you forgot to ask education level and its kind of important in a survey of this sort don't you think?)

[JimBenArm]

Oh, forgot to add;

Male, 54, High school grad, lots of tech schools.

[jaydeehess]

Thought I would edit my first question due to my mistake!

1) In what ways, and to what extent have online 9/11 debunking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?

I started out having seen the attacks on TV mostly live on 9/11 and shortly thereafter saw posters on another site claiming bombs in the towers. I was already debunking Apollo hoax idiocy and it was a natural to investigate and then, when I found no basis to the contentions of the 911 TM to join in the debunking. So these forums have been both a source of information as well as a venue to do a similar hobby that I had already been doing.

Since 9/11 CT's have all but replaced Apollo hoax CT's it gives me an outlet.

[Hokulele]

1) In what ways, and to what extent have …have online truth seeking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?


They have made me realize that "common sense" is no substitute for education and hard work.

2) Can you describe the ways in which this online community supports your views?


By providing evidence and arguments based on education and hard work.

3) What, in particular, do you like about the environment of this forum?


The wide diversity of experience amongst the various posters.

4) How often do you contribute to this forum?


Substantially? Maybe once a month. Insubstantially? About once a day.

5) Do you feel that the media supports your views on 9/11? If so, how?


The question as stated is impossible to answer as there is no such thing as "the media". Various types of media represent a huge range of facts and opinion, some of which I agree with, some of which I disagree with, and some of which is batpiss crazy.

6) Do you consider the online community you are part of to be a serious and important part of your life or more of a hobby? Can you give an example of the ways in which the online community fulfils your needs/aspirations/goals?


Hobby. Definitely a hobby. If I were to permanently lose my forum account tomorrow, it would not affect my life/needs/aspirations/goals one bit.

Other than the fact that I could no longer make fun of JimBenArm.


Er, based on subsequent posts by the OP, I am 41, female, with a college education. Regarding the revised question #1, not at all.

[GlennB]

GlennB - Yes, I have posted on another forum, but it seemed that I went about introducing myself in the wrong way and seemed to offend people. My message on that forum was posted yesterday, before that I have not participated in online forums for a considerable amount of time. I'm not trying to fool anyone. I am just trying to complete my work.

Sorry if I appear to be misleading.

Hannah

Your response ""As for my take on 9/11 - I think it was planned by the Government. Bush's connections to the oil industry " on that other forum was not an introduction. It was a response. Presumably it's true. If it isn't true then what are we to make of your approach here?

Colour me cynical but your supposed 'academic project' just looks like another pseudo-naive entrance. Two days from now you'll be proposing CD by nano-thermite, right?

"The destruction of 7WTC enhances my opinions, it just seems that it was quite handy that the building that holds the secret service and CIA etc, got destroyed, losing everything." Posted by: Hannah_1989 Apr 12 2009

[ozeco41]

@Hannah;

Composite answer as suggested.

Male, English born, Australian and resident in Australia, 67 years, Civil Structural Engineer, two Bachelors (Engineering and Law) plus several lower quals. 15 years Australian Army Reserve Engineers experience - and held demolition qualifications. Civilian experience/interest areas Emergency Response and forensic assessment of failures. Experience as Member Government level Emergency Management Steering Committees.

Hi Alt+F4, thank you for responding!

My questions are:

1a) In what ways, and to what extent have …have online truth seeking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?
1b) In what ways, and to what extent have online 9/11 debunking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks? I have only posted to two forums. Became interested in 9/11 through a "truther" style friend. Found forums and websites to provide data to fill out my civil and military assessment of 9/11 which I had formed on 9/11 in simplistic terms of planes struck buildings and the buildings fell. 2) Can you describe the ways in which this online community supports your views? My main interest is the technical questions of "demolition or not?" at WTC and the equivalent at Pentagon. Both my online communities have the polarisation between believers and non believers in conspiracy over these technical issues. "Supports" has at least two meanings to me. The non-believers on both share similar views to me so they support those views. Personally I have vastly increased my understanding of the issues and clarified my rationale for holding to the "no conspiracy view" on the technical aspects. Most of that benefit on another forum - I only came recently to this one as a "sabbatical" and the issues are the same so it is old ground but with benefit of many more technically savvy members.

3) What, in particular, do you like about the environment of this forum?
This forum . I enjoy the opportunities of multiple competent persons posting on this topic. Do not like the toleration of personal abuse and trolling which seems to take priority. On the other forum - I prefer the relative high standard of conduct but it is low on the science in this engineering physics area - biological science biased.
4) How often do you contribute to this forum?
130 posts 10 days all recent. The other on >>1500 posts on this topic over 18 months. Spend several hours most days on the two.
5) Do you feel that the media supports your views on 9/11? If so, how?
Located in Australia it is a long past issue and the conspiracy aspects are a non-event. Experience of the media is that at this time the issue would only be raised in a "Flashback review" style of item - print or other media OR if a similar event raided attracting comparisons.
6) Do you consider the online community you are part of to be a serious and important part of your life or more of a hobby? Can you give an example of the ways in which the online community fulfills your needs/aspirations/goals?
..an important hobby. At 67 It provides mental exercise which I no longer have access to in other fields. I consciously use it for that purpose. Will drop if another "obsession" arrives.

[fuelair]

Hannah, I am perfectly willing to trust you are a student doing a project - though I would suggest in future you check out exactly what you are going to be studying/basing your study one. To cover 1 more completely( and this applies directly to my overall answer): After I watched the second plane hit, I had to run upstairs to start teaching my 1st Pd Tv/Media production class. Within 5 minutes they knew how a fuelair bomb worked and why I was pretty sure we would see them in action in the middle east soon. The following day(9/12) my first afternoon class came in and were talking about maybe Bush had something to do with it because some had been hearing talk about that. I explained to them why/how there was not any way that could be kept secret and why it was otherwise not reasonable (as much as I loathed Shrub and believed him evil enough - which I did not mention to the students - we did share that belief). So the truther side when I first heard about it, I knew was idiocy - and seeing their "ideas " on what had happened did nothing to change my mind - but the skeptic side had no effect either, just interesting to watch the amount of crap many here put up with from the troofers.

Re: the other factors: B.S. Bio major Phys. Sci. minor, M.L.S., a bit over half an M.B.A and lots of random courses: Geology, Oceanography, Physics (Hewlitt version), various computer use things and I'm sure I have missed an item or two. Plan to stop learning when and if I die.

[Unsecured Coins]

1) In what ways, and to what extent have …have online truth seeking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?

They kind of made me realize that the people running them are very ignorant, ill tempered, and can't take criticism without blowing up on you. Not the kind of people I want to listen to.

2) Can you describe the ways in which this online community supports your views?
They listen to facts, and don't jump to conclusions.

3) What, in particular, do you like about the environment of this forum?
it's not as ban happy as the defenders of free speech forums. You know, the ones that tout the right to be able to say whatever they want, but when you say something that doesn't mesh with what they have to say, then you don't get to talk any more... those guys.

4) How often do you contribute to this forum?
not as much as I used to.

5) Do you feel that the media supports your views on 9/11? If so, how?
Yep, they do. Otherwise, I'd be hearing about the latest and greatest smoking gun on ESPN in between the usual 45 minute long NFL segment on how the Cowboys are going to fare without TO and which shoe Kobe Bryant tied first today.

6) Do you consider the online community you are part of to be a serious and important part of your life or more of a hobby? Can you give an example of the ways in which the online community fulfils your needs/aspirations/goals?
I'd say a hobby. Some of these people watch my UC vids, and Jebus bless them for that.

[LashL]

My questions are:

1) In what ways, and to what extent have …have online truth seeking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?
First things first, please define what you mean by "truth seeking communities".

Thanks in advance.

[Brainster]

If you are looking to get a broader range of Truthers in your survey, here are two other forums:

Truth Action (http://www.truthaction.org/forum/)

Truth Move (http://www.truthmove.org/forum/)

[ozeco41]

PLEASE NOTE AMENDED QUESTION 1

Some members are still reponding to the original question list.

Please note that hanna has corrected it as shown bellow.

Her post #25 at http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4614044&postcount=25 and those preceding it explains

My questions are:

1) In what ways, and to what extent have …have online truth seeking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?

1) In what ways, and to what extent have online 9/11 debunking communities influenced your views of the 9/11 attacks?


2) Can you describe the ways in which this online community supports your views?

3) What, in particular, do you like about the environment of this forum?

4) How often do you contribute to this forum?

5) Do you feel that the media supports your views on 9/11? If so, how?

6) Do you consider the online community you are part of to be a serious and important part of your life or more of a hobby? Can you give an example of the ways in which the online community fulfils your needs/aspirations/goals?

I am more than happy to explain the details of my assignment if you feel the need to know more about what I am doing.

Many thanks

Hannah