Cannibalism Not Illegal in Germany

[subgenius]

Mr Meiwes, a computer expert, met 43-year-old Bernd-Jurgen Brandes in early 2001, after Mr Meiwes advertised on websites for "young, well-built men aged 18 to 30 to slaughter", the German daily newspaper Bild reported at the time of his arrest.

Mr Meiwes told investigators he took Mr Brandes back to his home, where Mr Brandes agreed to have his ***** cut off, which Mr Meiwes then flambeed and served up to eat together.

Mr Meiwes says he then killed Mr Brandes with his consent - recording the two-hour event on video.
......
Prosecutors are seeking a conviction of murder for "sexual satisfaction", as cannibalism is not technically illegal under German law.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3230774.stm

Should consensual cannibalism be illegal?

[subgenius]

Still searching for laws against it in the US, but found this parody website: http://www.cannibalism.org.uk/p-general/faq.htm

[bjornart]

I can't find any laws against it in Norway either, but someone wanting to be eaten is obviously nuts, and it should be against the law to take advantage of someone who's obviously nuts. Especially when the 'advantage' is a really revolting meal. :P

[DanishDynamite]

bjornart:...and it should be against the law to take advantage of someone who's obviously nuts. The US economy would grind to a halt.:D

[WildCat]

Well, it's really beside the point. I would think that the sentence for murder is far longer than any possible cannibalism sentence.

On a related note, I hear that cannibalism in the British Navy is almost unheard of now.

[plindboe]

The weirdest event ever this one. So incredibly perverse and sick. What the smeg must have been going on in their minds? I'm just grateful it was with consent, and not someone being forced. It's scary to know that humans can get so twisted.

[subgenius]

I found no law against it here in Michigan, but I believe it would be covered here by laws against mutilation of corpses.
An acquaintance of mine actually got charged under that statute.
Want to hear the story? Of course you do.
He was Dr. Millard Bass, of the Wayne County Medical Examiners Office (Coroner). Interesting chap. He was doing research on the effect of gunshot wounds (you know paths of travel, etc.), which actually would be quite helpful in the forensic aspects of his job. Well he had a bunch of leftover cadavers that he was shooting, and he was charged criminally.
He lost his job over the charges, beat the charges and won a big verdict for wrongful discharge (no, not of the gun).

He was a funny guy (a colleague of Werner Spitz). Lived in the hotel where I was living/working. Kind of a residential hotel. I would go into his room on occasion to fix the plumbing or whatever, and it was startling. I'd go from walking down a normal hotel hall to opening a door into what looked like the laboratory in Frankenstein's castle. Test tubes, bubbling beakers and all.

One night we had a hysterical woman in the lobby, screaming, "I'm going to kill myself", just as Dr. Bass (remember he's a coroner) walked in. He calmed her down immediately by putting his arm around her and saying, "Don't do that, I have enough business."

[subgenius]

Originally posted by WildCat
Well, it's really beside the point. I would think that the sentence for murder is far longer than any possible cannibalism sentence.
Remember, this is consensual cannibalism.
Makes me wonder about human road kill though, but I think that would be covered in Michigan under the corpse mutilation statute.

[scribble]

Mutilating irrevocably your own body can be a sign of mental illness. That aside, I consider the question of cannibalism an interesting one. I can see historically why it would be taboo to eat the dead - before our current understanding of biology, it would be all too common I imagine to eat someone whodied of a communicable disease and get it yourself.

In this modern day of practiced sterilization and of course our greater ability to determine the cause of death and the safety of meats - I don't see why cannibalism should be illegal or even wrong.

Of course murder is wrong - taking another's life. I say this based on my own morality - if you feel differently then just let me know who you are so I can avoid you. But if we're talking about eating someone who is already dead (of natural causes or otherwise) I don't see the problem.

Of course, in my situation where I have plenty of much more appetizing foods than my fellow humans, I don't see why you'd want to eat a person. But the motives aside - why is it so shunned?

And of course - don't even get me started on those Catholics...

[peptoabysmal]

Wow, this puts a whole new meaning on wienerschnitzel.

And no, no, no, no, this is just wrong, wrong, wrong. :eek:

I would assume that there are laws against killing someone with or without their consent, never mind eating the corpse --- ***shudder***.

[sorgoth]

I know it's very weird, and very sick, but it's consensual .

If the guy really wanted it, they can do whatever the hell they want.

[subgenius]

Whole new meaning to "Bite me."
And of course you know why cannibals don't eat clowns.











They taste funny.

[Mike B.]

Originally posted by WildCat
Well, it's really beside the point. I would think that the sentence for murder is far longer than any possible cannibalism sentence.

On a related note, I hear that cannibalism in the British Navy is almost unheard of now.

"And when I say there is almost no canibalism in the Royal Navy, I mean to say there is a substantial."
:D

[BobK]

Probably tastes just like Soylent Green.

[arcticpenguin]

Consensual cannibalism: well, if they outlawed it, a number of churches would have trouble with rituals based around the eat my body, drink my blood bit.

[WildCat]

Originally posted by subgenius

Remember, this is consensual cannibalism.
Makes me wonder about human road kill though, but I think that would be covered in Michigan under the corpse mutilation statute.
Well, if they died of other means it's a victimless crime. Tastes like chicken...

[shuize]

I always knew Germans were freaking nuts.

(Feel free to respond with anecdotes about the U.S. and other wacky people around the world -- But it's my guess you're going to really have to work to beat this looniness.)

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by shuize
I always knew Germans were freaking nuts.

(Feel free to respond with anecdotes about the U.S. and other wacky people around the world -- But it's my guess you're going to really have to work to beat this looniness.)

You take that back this instant - or I'll invite you to dinner :D

Zee

[shemp]

This subject is something to chew on. I can really sink my teeth into it. A very meaty topic. I think I'll go bone up on it.

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by shemp
I think I'll go bone up on it.

Now I know there are laws about that!!


Consent is not a defense to murder in the U.S., for example consider Dr. Kevorkian. This is where the whole "assisted suicide" thing hits the legal fan.

[shuize]

Originally posted by Suddenly


Now I know there are laws about that!!


Consent is not a defense to murder in the U.S., for example consider Dr. Kevorkian. This is where the whole "assisted suicide" thing hits the legal fan.

Ah, but did Dr. Kevorkian feed the consenting patients their own genitalia before pulling the plug?

Congratulations. Germany wins the latest "How shuize Lost Faith in Humanity" contest yet again.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by WildCat

Tastes like chicken...

Apparently it tastes like pork and is known as 'Long Pig' in some parts.

The problem is that humans arent really bred for their meat so are likely to be quite 'gamey' ie- tough and tasty but would probably need to be marinated and slow cooked.

Also, you would have to go quite young, you would never eat a 30 year old sheep would you? far to stringy! So in reality you would probably be looking for females no older than 16.

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by shuize


Ah, but did Dr. Kevorkian feed the consenting patients their own genitalia before pulling the plug?

Congratulations. Germany wins the latest "How shuize Lost Faith in Humanity" contest yet again.

Well, you sound like Arthur Dent at Milliways:

MDOTD: "I'm the main dish of the day, may I interest you in parts of my body?"

Dent: "Err, YOUR body???"

MTOTD: "Well, naturally MY body. Nobody else's is mine to offer."

...

Dent: "It's the single most revolting thing I've ever heard" yadda yadda

:p

Zee

[Agammamon]

Originally posted by plindboe
The weirdest event ever this one. So incredibly perverse and sick. What the smeg must have been going on in their minds? I'm just grateful it was with consent, and not someone being forced. It's scary to know that humans can get so twisted.

If the details of this story are true then I am much more disturbed over the fact of the victims willingness. Viscious cannibals I can understand, someone who submits to that willingly is far more twisted.

[arcticpenguin]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=4&u=/nm/20031124/od_nm/dog_dc


HANOI (Reuters) - Vietnamese drug addicts kidnapped a mute teenager, bundled him in a sack and sold him to a dog-meat eatery as a stray canine, state media said on Saturday.
Not consensual = wrong.
Consensual = weird in the extreme.

[bjornart]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=4&u=/nm/20031124/od_nm/dog_dc


Not consensual = wrong.
Consensual = weird in the extreme.

Yeah, but no one ate him. In fact he was fed instead. (Probably some tasty Chow Chow. Sheesh, now I'm hungry, time to have dinner.)

[shuize]

Originally posted by Agammamon


If the details of this story are true then I am much more disturbed over the fact of the victims willingness. Viscious cannibals I can understand, someone who submits to that willingly is far more twisted.

I agree. If I didn't make myself clear above: The authorities certainly need to take the Chinese approach to the cannibal and bill his relatives for the cost of the bullet to the back of his head. But the real reason the Germans win the prize is their claim to the nationality of the twisted f*ck who agreed to partake of his own genitalia as a prelude to being killed, dismembered and eaten by a nutjob like Meiwes.

[The Don]

I am reminded of the Paul Simon song "50 ways to eat your lover"

(with apologies to Mr. Simon)

"The problem is all inside my head", she said to me
The answer is easy if you take it logically
I'd like you to help me in my struggle to be free
There must be fifty ways to eat your lover

She said it's really not my habit to intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued
But I'll repeat myself at the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways to eat your lover
Fifty ways to eat your lover

Just slip her in a snack Jack
Make a little flan, Stan
Just add a little soy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Cut off the crus(t), Gus
You don't need to trim off much
Just add a little brie, Lee
And get yourself free

She said it grieves me so to see you in such pain
I wish there was something I could do to make you smile again
I said I appreciate that and would you please explain
About the fifty ways

She said why don't we both just sleep on it tonight
And I believe in the morning you'll begin to see the light
And then she bit me and I realized she probably was right
There must be fifty ways to eat your lover
Fifty ways to eat your lover

Just slip her in a snack Jack
Make a little flan, Stan
Just add a little soy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Cut off the crus(t), Gus
You don't need to trim off much
Just add a little brie, Lee
And get yourself free

[arcticpenguin]

Dip her in the fondue, Lou.

[c0rbin]

I read, in a collection of Japanese sci-fi (translated into English), a short sory about a fellow who, buy using a little technology ate himself from the toes up.

It ended with the authorities finding his head (sustained through medical machinery) with an apparatus that feed him his own brains with a spoon. The spoon was lodged in his lobes and he had expired mid-course.

I love that kind of stuff.

I think it is from this collection (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/156980124X/qid=1069693723/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-1288566-9653620?v=glance&s=books) called "The Savage Mouth."

[MoeFaux]

From the first moment I heard of this case, I said, "sexy".

I see nothing wrong with it at all. I'm completely for consensual adult activities.

[DanishDynamite]

Originally posted by MoeFaux
From the first moment I heard of this case, I said, "sexy".

I see nothing wrong with it at all. I'm completely for consensual adult activities. You are even more scary than I imagined.

[blackpriester]

What makes Moe scary? He ist just in favor oflaws that recognize individuals' rights to exercise their free wills. However sick andtwisted those might be - as long as nobody ASIDE from consenting partnersis hurt, I don't see what's wrong with it.

[shemp]

Originally posted by blackpriester
What makes Moe scary? He ist just in favor oflaws that recognize individuals' rights to exercise their free wills. However sick andtwisted those might be - as long as nobody ASIDE from consenting partnersis hurt, I don't see what's wrong with it.

FYI, MoeFaux is a female.

[shemp]

Originally posted by MoeFaux
From the first moment I heard of this case, I said, "sexy".

I see nothing wrong with it at all. I'm completely for consensual adult activities.

That settles it! I'm booking my reservations for TAM2!

[subgenius]

BTW The Don: Brilliant.

[MoeFaux]

Originally posted by shemp


That settles it! I'm booking my reservations for TAM2!

Shemp, bite me. :D


I just don't see the problem with this at all. Just because it's something that I wouldn't do doesn't mean it's something that someone else shouldn't do.

[Ed]

Originally posted by shuize
I always knew Germans were freaking nuts.

(Feel free to respond with anecdotes about the U.S. and other wacky people around the world -- But it's my guess you're going to really have to work to beat this looniness.)


Michael Jackson

[Marc]

Originally posted by MoeFaux


Shemp, bite me. :D


Careful using that kind of expression in a thread on cannibalism. http://members.cox.net/draft2/Smileys/eat.gif

I've nibbled on at least one shoulder in response. ;)

[DanishDynamite]

Originally posted by blackpriester
What makes Moe scary? He ist just in favor oflaws that recognize individuals' rights to exercise their free wills. However sick andtwisted those might be - as long as nobody ASIDE from consenting partnersis hurt, I don't see what's wrong with it. I don't have a big problem with making the actions depicted legal. I have a big problem with someone who, upon first reading of the case, thought "sexy".

That is just plain scary.

[shuize]

Originally posted by Ed



Michael Jackson

Michael Jackson is indeed a nutjob. And on a total worldwide scale his nuttiness certainly has a far wider audience than the German cannibal. But excessive plasic surgery plus childmolestation is just sooo yesterday. The cutting edge (so to speak) in Freakville these days is sittting down to a nice candlelit dinner of your own genitalia with your murderer who shortly thereafter carves you up for his main course.

[DanishDynamite]

Originally posted by shuize


Michael Jackson is indeed a nutjob. And on a total worldwide scale his nuttiness certainly has a far wider audience than the German cannibal. But excessive plasic surgery plus childmolestation is just sooo yesterday. The cutting edge (so to speak) in Freakville these days is sittting down to a nice candlelit dinner of your own genitalia with your murderer who shortly thereafter carves you up for his main course. :D :D

Great stuff, shuíze. :D

[WildCat]

Double post edited out

[WildCat]

Originally posted by shuize
The cutting edge (so to speak) in Freakville these days is sittting down to a nice candlelit dinner of your own genitalia with your murderer who shortly thereafter carves you up for his main course.
I hear that necropyrobeastiality is making a comeback.

[arcticpenguin]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20031203/od_nm/germany_cannibal_dc


They (prosecutors) concede the victim wanted to be killed but argue he was incapable of rational thought.

It will be interesting to see whether the jury buys that.

Perhaps I'm being presumptive. This is in Germany, I don't know whether there is a jury or not.

[subgenius]

(From the link above):
"Prosecutors, who charged Meiwes with murder after a psychiatrist declared him fit to stand trial, are seeking a life sentence."

They declared the victim incapable of rational thought but the defendant is fit to stand trial. Very convenient.

Like with Jeffrey Dahmer, I am troubled by a finding that a (modern civilization) cannibal is sane. The drive to find such a person sane comes from a fear of letting them off, but does violence to the meaning of words.
If these cannibals are sane, do you want to be sane?

I have suggested for years that we have a seperate category for those found to be psychotic killers, instead of going through the farce of declaring them sane in order to obtain justice and safety.

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20031203/od_nm/germany_cannibal_dc


It will be interesting to see whether the jury buys that.

Perhaps I'm being presumptive. This is in Germany, I don't know whether there is a jury or not.

There is not.

Zee

[ingoa]

Sane doesn't mean "mentally sane" in this context. In Germany it really means able to understand the results of ones own actions.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by ingoa
Sane doesn't mean "mentally sane" in this context. In Germany it really means able to understand the results of ones own actions.
You are correct, that also here in America there are different levels of mental health used to determine ability to stand trial, or as a complete defense. Even when used as a defense to a crime there are different legal tests: did one know right from wrong or could one conform his actions to the law. These are tests that are seriously behind the current science of the brain.
I do tend to think that cannibalism (in modern day societies) or consenting to be cannibalized are not the product of a normal brain.