Help! Nano Thermite Issue - For Idiots

[Red3]

Please bear with me on this, because to be honest I don't understand this thermite thing...

My friend is convinced that this Niels Harrit video that's on Youtube is the smoking gun proof of 911 being an inside job. I'm convinced it's not, but like I said, I don't completely understand it. I know what thermite is,and what it does and that they think they have found it. But is it Thermite they've found?

He says in the video that Thermite is a mixture of aluminum and rust; so how do they know it's Thermite and not just, er, aluminum and rust?


He also mentions that there was molten metal coming out of the South tower; is it molten metal? And if so, is it the result of the use of Thermite or Nano Thermite?

I'm sure this has been done to death by now.

I'm not all that interested in 911, but this thing is bugging me!

[lapman]

Look in the already established threads that are listed on the first page. They will answer all your questions.

[DavidJames]

Please bear with me on this, because to be honest I don't understand this thermite thing...

My friend is convinced that this Niels Harrit video that's on Youtube is the smoking gun proof of 911 being an inside job. I'm convinced it's not, but like I said, I don't completely understand it. I know what thermite is,and what it does and that they think they have found it. But is it Thermite they've found?

He says in the video that Thermite is a mixture of aluminum and rust; so how do they know it's Thermite and not just, er, aluminum and rust?


He also mentions that there was molten metal coming out of the South tower; is it molten metal? And if so, is it the result of the use of Thermite or Nano Thermite?

I'm sure this has been done to death by now.

I'm not all that interested in 911, but this thing is bugging me!I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help but I'll answer anyway :)

I don't believe it's productive to play the conspiracy theorists (CTist) game of claim and debunk, i.e.

CTist - It was "x"
Debunker - No and here's why
CTists - It was "y"
Debunker - No and here's why
CTists - It was "z"
Debunker - No and here's why
CTist - It was "a"
Debunker - No and here's why

note the alphabet has wrapped around. I did that because that's they way they work. They will keep running at you the same old crap and eventually it will start over again.

This approach only serves to pump the ego's of the CTists as it allows them to use their imaginations and simply make things up. It allows them to continually get attention, exactly what they are looking for.

My approach is simple.

They make they claim, they need to prove it. Once they provide legitimate evidence then debunking can begin.

In your case, they seem to have provided nothing other then vague claims. I suggest you ask them your questions and demand proof regarding their reply. For example, the "molten metal". They need to prove what it was and specifically how that relates to their claims, with proof.

The down side to my approach is if everyone took it, this forum would have about 3 threads and I would not have as much opportunity to laugh at the idiots as much as I can now.

[Sunstealer]

Original thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=139293)

Moderated thread.
(http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=140017&page=2) Ask away.

[beachnut]

Please bear with me on this, because to be honest I don't understand this thermite thing...

My friend is convinced that this Niels Harrit video that's on Youtube is the smoking gun proof of 911 being an inside job. I'm convinced it's not, but like I said, I don't completely understand it. I know what thermite is,and what it does and that they think they have found it. But is it Thermite they've found?

He says in the video that Thermite is a mixture of aluminum and rust; so how do they know it's Thermite and not just, er, aluminum and rust?


He also mentions that there was molten metal coming out of the South tower; is it molten metal? And if so, is it the result of the use of Thermite or Nano Thermite?

I'm sure this has been done to death by now.

I'm not all that interested in 911, but this thing is bugging me!

OMG, here is a steel pipe with aluminum that suffered heat damage. It has thermite!!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh run.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/steeltubewithAl.jpg
The elements Jones found in the Dust blocks away from the WTC can be found all over the place. This was an aluminized steel heater tubes suffering heat damage; looks just like thermite product. Proof! Proof that you can find the same elements in the same ratio as thermite in things that are not thermite.

Busted.

[ozeco41]

Please bear with me on this, because to be honest I don't understand this thermite thing...

My friend is convinced that this Niels Harrit video that's on Youtube is the smoking gun proof of 911 being an inside job. I'm convinced it's not, but like I said, I don't completely understand it. I know what thermite is,and what it does and that they think they have found it. But is it Thermite they've found?

He says in the video that Thermite is a mixture of aluminum and rust; so how do they know it's Thermite and not just, er, aluminum and rust?


He also mentions that there was molten metal coming out of the South tower; is it molten metal? And if so, is it the result of the use of Thermite or Nano Thermite?

I'm sure this has been done to death by now.

I'm not all that interested in 911, but this thing is bugging me!
The simple overview is that there are two issues:
1) Whether or not they found thermate; AND
2) Whether or not thermate was used; could have been used; could NOT have been used.

Simply stated the second is nearly 100% certain that thermate could not have been used.

The "truthers" know that if they clim it was used in demolition the responsibility is their's to "prove it" and it is not provable. So first trick is they try to get "Us" to prove it wasn't. A logical fallacy (2 actually)

But it is easier for them to keep debating for ever the question of whether it was there or not. Called playing for a draw in some sports. Making sure "we" dont get the answer no use of thermate.

BUT whether or not thermate traces were found is irrelevant to whether thermate was used. Circumstantial evidence at best.

[Sunstealer]

OMG, here is a steel pipe with aluminum that suffered heat damage. It has thermite!!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh run.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/steeltubewithAl.jpg
The elements Jones found in the Dust blocks away from the WTC can be found all over the place. This was an aluminized steel heater tubes suffering heat damage; looks just like thermite product. Proof! Proof that you can find the same elements in the same ratio as thermite in things that are not thermite.

Busted.No Oxygen peak so can't be thermite ;) but your point is valid - People just don't understand what they are reading or looking at so they go straight to the conclusions. We all do that with things we aren't certain about, but when we do know we read and digest the info. Pretty red graphs and SEM pics might fool some but not the professional.

My fave is this one

http://www.bccmeteorites.com/imageQGM.JPG

What's that then folks? It's got Fe, O and Al in - is it thermite? Hint: older SEM used hence the O and C merged peak. Also notice the read out at the bottom comparing K peaks and therefore giving approximate percentages - Jones never did this.

I found the required materials in under 30 seconds - bit pricey mind you

Aluminium Powder (http://www.advancedmaterials.us/13MN-0001.htm)- $1109 per Kg

Iron oxide Powder (http://www.advancedmaterials.us/26FO3-08N3.htm) - $198 per Kg

They do bulk discount too, how much does the NWO need?

These people have pretty pics :)
http://www.nabond.com/Aluminium_nanopowder.html Shame we don't see any spherical Al particles in Jones' SEM photos. :(

[beachnut]

No Oxygen peak so can't be thermite ;) but your point is valid - People just don't understand what they are reading or looking at so they go straight to the conclusions.

What's that then folks? It's got Fe, O and Al in - is it thermite? Hint: older SEM used hence the O and C merged peak. Also notice the read out at the bottom comparing K peaks and therefore giving approximate percentages - Jones never did this.

I found the required materials in under 30 seconds - bit pricey mind you

Aluminium Powder (http://www.advancedmaterials.us/13MN-0001.htm)- $1109 per Kg

Iron oxide Powder (http://www.advancedmaterials.us/26FO3-08N3.htm) - $198 per Kg

They do bulk discount too, how much does the NWO need?

These people have pretty pics :)
http://www.nabond.com/Aluminium_nanopowder.html Shame we don't see any spherical Al particles in Jones' SEM photos. :(

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/preheater-tube-failure-9.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/sscorproducts.jpg
It is easy to get close to Jones junk without much effort. Jones appears to be cooking the results by presenting the samples to match his conclusion. I was looking at spectrum and some come close to Jones failed paper and I only spent a few minutes looking.

If found a red sample of dust in my fire place. I bet I could have sent it to Jones and it would be in the paper as some more thermite. Yep, I burnt my coke can with some rusty steel junk.

I love the faulty chain of evidence and the total lack of evidence of thermite reactions on any of the steel at the WTC, there is no product of thermite on the steel. Only fire damage and a gravity collapse.

His thermite was dust from the WTC; looks a lot like rust with carbon. The funny part the best he can do is let Hoffman make up the ceiling thermite tiles and sprayed thermite on the core.

[KreeL]

Please bear with me on this, because to be honest I don't understand this thermite thing...

My friend is convinced that this Niels Harrit video that's on Youtube is the smoking gun proof of 911 being an inside job. I'm convinced it's not, but like I said, I don't completely understand it. I know what thermite is,and what it does and that they think they have found it. But is it Thermite they've found?

He says in the video that Thermite is a mixture of aluminum and rust; so how do they know it's Thermite and not just, er, aluminum and rust?


He also mentions that there was molten metal coming out of the South tower; is it molten metal? And if so, is it the result of the use of Thermite or Nano Thermite?

I'm sure this has been done to death by now.

I'm not all that interested in 911, but this thing is bugging me!

There is video evidence of molten metal pouring from the south tower. The color of which likely indicates it was not aluminum as NIST claims.

Nano-thermite is different from ordinary thermite:

http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/14105/?a=f

Thermitic evidence was positively identified. Read the paper, listen to the scientist, and judge for yourself.

[T.A.M.]

There is video evidence of molten metal pouring from the south tower. The color of which likely indicates it was not aluminum as NIST claims.

Nano-thermite is different from ordinary thermite:

http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/14105/?a=f

Thermitic evidence was positively identified. Read the paper, listen to the scientist, and judge for yourself.

1. The video shows a molten SUBSTANCE, which on the unedited, UNADJUSTED, UNCORRECTED video is orange. We have shown MANY MANY PICTURES of molten aluminum with an orange tone/hue.

2. Nanothermite is tiny thermite...lol

3. Thermitic evidence was not positively identified. A spectral pattern and heat test on a few chips produced patterns that contains the same elements as thermite, and many other things. Others have shown that the chips may have come from paint and other things, yet the authors either DID NOT ADDRESS these possiblities, or they barely addressed them (testing one type of UNAMED, UNQUANTIFIED paint to make their conclusion that the chips could not be paint).

But for once Kreel is right, go read the paper and decide for yourself how scientifically valid it is...

Then go here (http://the911forum.freeforums.org/active-thermitic-material-in-wtc-dust-t150-60.html), here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=139293), and here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=140017), and read what others think...

TAM:)

[Red3]

So in a nutshell, they've found some old paint flakes?!

[Arus808]

So in a nutshell, they've found some old paint flakes?!

more than likely...and gypsum..and human remains, that also contain such elements.

the samples themselves were collected in areas that could have contaminated the them, and Jones didn't bother to exclude all possibility of contamination.

A scientist, he is not.