Reason for a Deity.

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

Why do people need a reason for having a god or not having a god?

Why does there have to be a reason for the human race's existance?

For that matter why does there have to be a reason for everything in life?

[Rodibidably]

Why do people need a reason for having a god or not having a god?
We evolved to have a need for explinations. When we don't have those explinations, we have historically made up stories. The concept of god (or gods) is one of those stories.

Why does there have to be a reason for the human race's existance?
People like to have meaning in their lives.

For that matter why does there have to be a reason for everything in life?
Ditto above

[TX50]

It's a very pervasive notion too. When I used to argue about such things,
this one always produced the hardest-fought encounters. "There must
be a reason!", "Everything happens for a reason!" etc etc. Nobody
could ever answer my question "why does there have to be a reason?"
though (Ok, so I'm no Socrates... :o )

[KingMerv00]

For that matter why does there have to be a reason for everything in life?

Egotism.

"If humans are not important, nothing matters."

[JoeTheJuggler]

Why do people need a reason for having a god or not having a god?

Why does there have to be a reason for the human race's existance?

For that matter why does there have to be a reason for everything in life?
I think your questions point to a pet idea of mine. You seem to recognize a connection or similarity between metaphysical beliefs and rational thinking.

I think both belief in the supernatural and rational (logical) thought are side effects of mental capacities that are adaptive to us as organisms living in very complex social groups. Those capacities are things like the ability and tendency to infer intent, the ability and tendency to recognize patterns (especially faces), language and symbolic though, etc.

BTW, the answer given above--that we evolved a need for explanations just leads to the question, "How is a need for explanations adaptive?" I think the missing link is the advantage of these kinds of mental capacities to individuals living in complex groups (stuff like reading facial expressions, making alliances, ability to see a situation from the other's point-of-view, etc.).

[arthwollipot]

People like to have meaning in their lives.Why?

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Why?

They like disappointment?

[plumjam]

Why do people need a reason for having a god or not having a god?

Why does there have to be a reason for the human race's existance?

For that matter why does there have to be a reason for everything in life?

You're asking for reasons for all that stuff, and one of your questions is why there has to be a reason for everything.
You're doing exactly the thing you're bringing into question.

[arthwollipot]

You're asking for reasons for all that stuff, and one of your questions is why there has to be a reason for everything.
You're doing exactly the thing you're bringing into question.Hmm. Not really. There's quite a large qualitative difference between the two.

[KellyG]

We evolved a way to be held accountable by others in our population to be altruistic. We have a form of altruism in which we punish those who don't practice reciprocal altruism by making them think they are going to have a judgement day when they die. This prevents us from having to keep score.

[Mr Clingford]

My reason for having a god is that I am weak and need a crutch because I am frightened of being alone and thinking for myself.

[KingMerv00]

You're asking for reasons for all that stuff, and one of your questions is why there has to be a reason for everything.
You're doing exactly the thing you're bringing into question.

Not at all. Asking why people need reasons is very different from asking why humans exist.

[Rodibidably]

Why?
I can't speak for everybody else, but it seems to be a popular subject on google:

Results: about 34,300,000 for meaning (http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.answers.com/meaning&r=67&ei=FGfoSdrZH4vItge48onSBQ&sa=X&oi=dict&ct=D&cd=1&usg=AFQjCNGqmAU_Fo3XeAw_YIErHjLUtVnUvw) of life (http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.answers.com/life&r=67&ei=FGfoSdrZH4vItge48onSBQ&sa=X&oi=dict&ct=D&cd=2&usg=AFQjCNEqsJGOt0EztQ7Qb4C6kbwIuHGxEQ).

[Locutus]

You can look everywhere for human egotism. We just cannot imagine that there is anything more important to the world, nay, the universe, than us. We dreamt up religions that posit eminently powerful deities, who deign to give life to us, not just the human race en masse but each and every individual one of us. He created us in his image, in many instances. He/they fine-tuned everything just so that we could live, and prove ourselves moral, and gain access into some sort of everlasting paradise, or else live in some form of less nice alternative (often Hell).

All you have to do is look to every sci-fi series out there: the only one that I've ever seen that has not placed Earth at the head, or centre, or at least equal position with other imagined sentient spacefaring races as part of some intergalactic empire/Federation/what-have-you is that underfunded, half-aborted posthumous Gene Roddenberry creation, Andromeda. We seem unable to extricate ourselves from the foremost position in the world as we perceive it. For this reason, we can fly in the face of reason and logic and say "Nope, the West will never fall and China will never become the dominant people, simply because I'm from the West and I couldn't possibly be a part of anything than the pre-eminent societal model." It's also why we can look for a meaning in life, despite the obvious evidence that there is no meaning in it, and appeal to an argument from desire and wish-thinking. When we miss the bus, it's not because the atoms are being affected by God on that day to worsen our mood, it's because other people want to catch the bus on time and the atoms have no feeling about it one way or the other.

[Limbo]

"People say that what we're all seeking is a meaning for life... I think that what we're really seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonance within our innermost being and reality, so that we can actually feel the rapture of being alive." -Joseph Campbell

[DC]

Why do people need a reason for having a god or not having a god?

Why does there have to be a reason for the human race's existance?

For that matter why does there have to be a reason for everything in life?

i see reason in live, reproduce and evolve.

[Marcus]

Why do people need a reason for having a god or not having a god?

Why does there have to be a reason for the human race's existance?

For that matter why does there have to be a reason for everything in life?
It's biology vs reason. Biologically, we feel that we must be immortal and can not conceive of nonexistance. Our rational mind tells us we must die, but there is a drive to find a way around this, to find a way to believe in an immortality that our body tells us must be there. An afterlife, or even just a Greater Purpose, can make you feel better, but you have to suspend your reason to believe it.

[Beerina]

Why do people need a reason for having a god or not having a god?

With no god, you can't draft people, willingly or otherwise, to help in His cause, by giving money to you.

[Beerina]

Oh, wait. I forgot about politics, the quasi-religion that replaces "for God" with "for The People" and "rewarded in the afterlife" with "rewarded 10 years down the road during the next guy's term."

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

Hmph,if you think about it our world needs these religions for a good reason.

if people knew there was nothing after this life then it would be hectic. everyone would be killing each other if they got pissed.

in other words there has to be some sort of thing holding them back from their actions, so why not throw in god(s) to tell them it is all wrong and hold them back and tell the people if they break these rules they will be sent to some sort of hell.

[Rodibidably]

Hmph,if you think about it our world needs these religions for a good reason.

if people knew there was nothing after this life then it would be hectic. everyone would be killing each other if they got pissed.
Why would people do this?
I am an atheist, and I've never killed anybody, even when they've cut me off in traffic (and those f***ers deserve it).

in other words there has to be some sort of thing holding them back from their actions, so why not throw in god(s) to tell them it is all wrong and hold them back and tell the people if they break these rules they will be sent to some sort of hell.
So what is holding me back now? What is holding back the other 15% of the US population that does not believe in god?

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

well honestly you believe there is no god no one can know for sure.

but if everyone knew for a fact that there is no god or after life atall i believe there would be mass murder.

because think about it, other than the cops trying to hold the people back, what would honestly stop them?

[Locutus]

well honestly you believe there is no god no one can know for sure.

but if everyone knew for a fact that there is no god or after life atall i believe there would be mass murder.

because think about it, other than the cops trying to hold the people back, what would honestly stop them?

1. This argument is not won by proving negatives, which is an unreasonable demand given what is posited. If you posit an explanation that is a superfluous addition to an explanation that already exists (IE, "We already understand the world to a great degree, why tack on something extra that answers nothing new?"), with no evidence other than personal conviction and the misunderstanding of very natural phenomena, you are the one who has to do the proving.

2. It is unfortunate that you are only a good person because you fear the possibility of an omnipotent, omniscient deity. I'll let you know when God is properly disproven so that you can go commit those murders you've been itching to try out. To answer the question without sarcasm: people aren't good because they fear God, they're good because they're genetically wired to be good. That is what stops people. Sociopaths do not count, so don't bring it up.

[Holler Hoojer]

Why do people need a reason for having a god or not having a god?

Why does there have to be a reason for the human race's existance?

For that matter why does there have to be a reason for everything in life?

Sit the average believer in a closed room with Camus and a revolver and you'll get your answer.

[Rodibidably]

well honestly you believe there is no god no one can know for sure.

but if everyone knew for a fact that there is no god or after life atall i believe there would be mass murder.

because think about it, other than the cops trying to hold the people back, what would honestly stop them?
I am a "strong atheist".
In anger I have wanted to beat somebody to a pulp.
In jest (and anger) I have said I wanted ot kill somebody.
And if somebody hurt a person I care about, I can't say for sure I would not kill them.

But I have never SERIOUSLY considered murder, only to be stopped by the possibility of getting caught.

Perhaps the only thing to keep YOU from killing is believe in your magical sky daddy...
But for me, I tend to have a set of moral values that were instilled in me through evolution and society. Those morals tell me that except in defense of myself or defense of other, that to kill a human being is wrong.

You seem to have VERY strong beliefs about what would happen in a society of atheists. Are these ideas backed up by any evidence?
For instance, if you're correct, then one might expect ot see a lower murder rate in states where religious belief is higher. In fact, we see the EXACT OPPOSITE.
Alos, if you're correct, then one might expect ot see a lower murder rate in countries where religious belief is higher. In fact, we see the EXACT OPPOSITE.

So where does your view on this subject come from, as it's clearly not from evidence?

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

maybe it isnt right but still it can be true in lots of cases.

i probably shouldent speak for everyone of course but still either way theres no getting around the fact that it would b hectic no matter what way you think about it.

[Rodibidably]

maybe it isnt right but still it can be true in lots of cases.

i probably shouldent speak for everyone of course but still either way theres no getting around the fact that it would b hectic no matter what way you think about it.
EVIDENCE PLEASE.

The available evidence we have (more religious states vs less religious states in the US; and more religious countries vs less religious countries in the world) exactly contradicts the view you are trying to put forward.

[learner]

well honestly you believe there is no god no one can know for sure.

but if everyone knew for a fact that there is no god or after life atall i believe there would be mass murder.

because think about it, other than the cops trying to hold the people back, what would honestly stop them?


Think of the least religious countries in the world. Are they having a murderous bloodbath? Are the police holding back a baying murderous mob?

Members of my family, all, as far as I know, atheist, as far back as i can remember have all been law abiding non-murdering members of society.

You dont need a god to tell you not to murder. Its just not nice and it hurts.

[Locutus]

i probably shouldent speak for everyone of course but still either way theres no getting around the fact that it would b hectic no matter what way you think about it.

Except, apparently, all thinking people's way of thinking about it.

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

i guess i didnt state that it was only a thought.

so yeah w/e your right no evidence it dosent matter.

besides if you honestly THINK about it there would MORE THAN LIKELY be some sort of hysteria whether it being mass or just some small thing.

either way dont take any of what i said as a personal attack against atheists because it wasnt all it was, was a thought that came across my mind.

[GreedyAlgorithm]

maybe it isnt right but still it can be true in lots of cases.

i probably shouldent speak for everyone of course but still either way theres no getting around the fact that it would b hectic no matter what way you think about it.

Nope. Sorry. God's not required for morals, and neither's the afterlife, or a magic purpose-engine (MPE) in the sky. You have two hypotheses: 1) aMPEs will in general be moral. 2) there are no aMPEs, some people just think they are, but deep down they know there is an MPE, and they act morally even when explicitly deciding on choices as if there were no MPEs because deep down they know and there's also a magic deciding engine inside aMPEs that forces their conscious decision-making to choose to be moral since otherwise clearly they'd choose to be immoral under your theory.

1) is more parsimonious. It's also true, which is nice.

i guess i didnt state that it was only a thought.

so yeah w/e your right no evidence it dosent matter.

besides if you honestly THINK about it there would MORE THAN LIKELY be some sort of hysteria whether it being mass or just some small thing.

either way dont take any of what i said as a personal attack against atheists because it wasnt all it was, was a thought that came across my mind.

No. Telling everyone else to "honestly THINK about it" doesn't make your idea right. And telling everyone else that if they honestly think about it, then they will conclude X, when they have concluded not-X, is stating explicitly "If you disagree with me then we can conclude you did not think honestly".

Bull.

[Rodibidably]

i guess i didnt state that it was only a thought.

so yeah w/e your right no evidence it dosent matter.

besides if you honestly THINK about it there would MORE THAN LIKELY be some sort of hysteria whether it being mass or just some small thing.

either way dont take any of what i said as a personal attack against atheists because it wasnt all it was, was a thought that came across my mind.
I am an atheist.
I know many other atheists personally.
I also know of many other atheists in the public sector (Randi, Dawkins, etc).
As far as I am aware, none of the athesits I know (and know of), went on a murderous rampage when they realized god does not exist.

If you're aware of examples where this DID happen, please put them forward, I'd be curious to see those examples.

---
You statements do make me curious about YOU though. If you somehow came to believe that god does not exist, would YOU PERSONALLY go out and kill people?
If so, where do you live, (so I can be sure to not live near you)?

[learner]

i guess i didnt state that it was only a thought.

so yeah w/e your right no evidence it dosent matter.

besides if you honestly THINK about it there would MORE THAN LIKELY be some sort of hysteria whether it being mass or just some small thing.

either way dont take any of what i said as a personal attack against atheists because it wasnt all it was, was a thought that came across my mind.

So, you are in a permanent state of repressed muderous actions. oh, and hysteria. What a stressful life you have.
Did you have these thoughts before you found god or since?

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

Ok you all are right I am wrong whatever.

It does not change the fact that I said already it was a thought I had an i decided to share it.

I did use some of the wrong words in my previous posts and you love to point out apparently but like I said, I meant no harm in what I said. I figured since I was among other critical thinkers id get some sort of good and bad feedback but it seems as if it is turning into something more than it should have.

So I am sorry if I offended you in anyway next time ill make sure to hesitate before sharing my ideas.

[Marcus]

maybe it isnt right but still it can be true in lots of cases.

i probably shouldent speak for everyone of course but still either way theres no getting around the fact that it would b hectic no matter what way you think about it.
Wrong. It is not a fact, it is an opinion, and a terribly misguided one in my estimation. If you look at the numbers atheists are less likely to commit crimes, and they are not going to start any wars to defend their religion. If you need fear of Sky Daddy to keep you in line, you have greater problems than religion. All of which is a rehash of other posts on this page, it doesn't hurt to hear it from more than one source.

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

I never said ATHIESTS in general would do this. I meant the people of all the world religions finding out that daddy was never there.

[Rodibidably]

XxDeadlyNinjaxX,
Your statements make me very curious about YOU.

If you somehow came to believe that god does not exist, would YOU PERSONALLY go out and kill people?

If so, where do you live, (so I can be sure to not live near you)?
And if not, then why do you think other believers would react in this manner?

[learner]

Ok you all are right I am wrong whatever.

It does not change the fact that I said already it was a thought I had an i decided to share it.

I did use some of the wrong words in my previous posts and you love to point out apparently but like I said, I meant no harm in what I said. I figured since I was among other critical thinkers id get some sort of good and bad feedback but it seems as if it is turning into something more than it should have.

So I am sorry if I offended you in anyway next time ill make sure to hesitate before sharing my ideas.

Not offended here :) You had a thought, shared it, got some thoughts in response,recognised you may have been mistaken in your thoughts and acknowledged it. Alls well. :)

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

honestly take it however you want to i dont even care anymore. im not going to continue on with this little quarrel its pointless.

[Marcus]

Ok you all are right I am wrong whatever.

It does not change the fact that I said already it was a thought I had an i decided to share it.

I did use some of the wrong words in my previous posts and you love to point out apparently but like I said, I meant no harm in what I said. I figured since I was among other critical thinkers id get some sort of good and bad feedback but it seems as if it is turning into something more than it should have.

So I am sorry if I offended you in anyway next time ill make sure to hesitate before sharing my ideas.

You're giving up because people didn't treat you like a delicate flower? Doesn't make for much of a discussion.

[Rodibidably]

I never said ATHIESTS in general would do this. I meant the people of all the world religions finding out that daddy was never there.
There are some percentage of atheists who NEVER believed in god.
but there is also some percentage of atheists who were formerly believers in various religions.

So when you say that learning there is no god would cause a specific effect, we have examples that can confirm or debunk those claims.

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

lol thanks learner!

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

well of course of all scenarios it is VERY unlikely

[Rodibidably]

Take 3:

XxDeadlyNinjaxX,
Your statements make me very curious about YOU.

If you somehow came to believe that god does not exist, would YOU PERSONALLY go out and kill people?

If so, where do you live, (so I can be sure to not live near you)?
And if not, then why do you think other believers would react in this manner?

[Marcus]

I never said ATHIESTS in general would do this. I meant the people of all the world religions finding out that daddy was never there.
It appears you are just doing a drive by, having lost interest after a single day, but I will reply to this anyway.

The religious people of the world would not admit that Sky Daddy was not there, no matter what kind of evidence was presented. Faith, after all, is belief without, or in spite of, evidence.

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

well i guess it was not right of me to make those claims blindly i do apologise.

and mainly because all of my life ive been surrounded around fundamentalist christians. so i guess its because thats all i have been around my life. i should have realized that normally im not like that.

[Marcus]

No apology needed, this board is all about spirited discussion. If you are a Fundie, or just very familiar with the viewpoint, your contribution will be especially welcome, it's not that much fun if we are all agreeing with other.

[Malerin]

Why do people need a reason for having a god or not having a god?

Because we have deeply spiritual experiences? That was easy!

[mazyloron]

It's a very pervasive notion too. When I used to argue about such things, this one always produced the hardest-fought encounters. "There must be a reason!", "Everything happens for a reason!" etc etc. Nobody could ever answer my question "why does there have to be a reason?" though (Ok, so I'm no Socrates... :o )

Ok, the recursion here makes my brain hurt. (Note, this is not a criticism of TX50 in any way.)

This seems to be coming down to "I need a reason that I need a reason," and "there has to be a reason, but there doesn't have to be a reason that there has to be a reason."

At this point, my brain decided that it was time to stop.

Still, I find this a very interesting subject. Though if I think about it in this way for too long, I may crash my car into something on the way home. Here's hoping I have a more coherent though to contribute later on! :boggled:

[Autolite]

Why do people need a reason for having a god or not having a god?

Why does there have to be a reason for the human race's existence?

For that matter why does there have to be a reason for everything in life?

I'm guessing that it's just too unsettling for most folks to accept that there's no god or reason for their existence. People need a reason because it helps them to deal with adversity. If there actually is no god or reason for existence, then fabricating ones seems to work well enough...

(BTW, the reason for 'not having a god' is the same reason for fish not having bicycles).

[arthwollipot]

I can't speak for everybody else, but it seems to be a popular subject on google:

Results: about 34,300,000 for meaning (http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.answers.com/meaning&r=67&ei=FGfoSdrZH4vItge48onSBQ&sa=X&oi=dict&ct=D&cd=1&usg=AFQjCNGqmAU_Fo3XeAw_YIErHjLUtVnUvw) of life (http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.answers.com/life&r=67&ei=FGfoSdrZH4vItge48onSBQ&sa=X&oi=dict&ct=D&cd=2&usg=AFQjCNEqsJGOt0EztQ7Qb4C6kbwIuHGxEQ).That doesn't answer my question.

[aviolet4u]

because we are selfish, we don't want to stop existing...period.

We want to go on to a different plane preferably one that resembles a Disney World of sorts.

Its about the ego, its about mattering in some way other than just popping in and out of this short existence.