GIs dragged by Iraqi mob

[Mycroft]

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Nov. 23 — Iraqi teenagers dragged the bloody bodies of two American soldiers from a wrecked vehicle and pummeled them with concrete blocks Sunday, witnesses said, describing a burst of savagery in a city once safe for Americans. Another soldier was killed by a bomb and a U.S.-allied police chief was assassinated.

Story (http://www.msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?)

[Crossbow]

My oh my! Things sure can change fast, just the other day a poster started a thread about how well things were going in the north Iraq sector and that their success needs to be reproduced throughout the entire country.

101st Airborne getting it right in Mosul
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30968

[Tmy]

I feel the govt is always trying to spin things to make it look like these deaths are caused by terrorsists camping out in Iraq. They whole "insurgents" lable is rather odd.

I bet if you did a poll of americans asking who they think is attacking the troops on a daily basis, theyd say it was "terrorists". When really alot of of the attacks are from pissed off Iraqis who have nothing to do wh AL Qudea.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Crossbow
My oh my! Things sure can change fast, just the other day a poster started a thread about how well things were going in the north Iraq sector and that their success needs to be reproduced throughout the entire country.


Well that was my thread. I think the acid-test is whether the 101st now go overboard with heavy handedness or do they excercise restraint.

If the former then all is lost. If the latter, the Iraqis will be won over.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


Well that was my thread. I think the acid-test is whether the 101st now go overboard with heavy handedness or do they excercise restraint.

If the former then all is lost. If the latter, the Iraqis will be won over.

I suggest that you listen to the aforementioned NPR report and you will see that there is a good bit more at work than just the USA response.

[Larspeart]

"The iraqis will be won over."

OMFG, YEAH RIGHT!

I want to us see pull the f--- out, leave them to wallow in their own mess, and scorch their countryside as we leave. I never wanted us over there (not because I am anti-war, but because I could give a sh-- about that god-forsaken nation in general and saw them as no threat to anyone near me), and said before this whole thing started, VERBATIM, that this kind of crap would happen for years to come.

Let another dictator take over and oppress those poor excuses for human beings. I care.

[Ziggurat]

Originally posted by Larspeart

Let another dictator take over and oppress those poor excuses for human beings. I care.

Wow. What an incredible example of human refuse we have on display right here.

[Larspeart]

Originally posted by Ziggurat


Wow. What an incredible example of human refuse we have on display right here.

Um, I think you missed the point of the thread. The Iraqis don't want us there. They don't want out presense, our government, our army, or our protection. Helping those who don't want to be helped is kicking a dead horse.

You took one line out of several to make a catty remark. You can do better then that.

They don't want us, and I don't want them. The solution 'should' be simple. We pull out, and they go back to what they had before; chaos and totalitarianism.

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by Ziggurat


Wow. What an incredible example of human refuse we have on display right here.

Well, at least he's honest.

After all, the only difference between:

1). "Let those sh--ty brown people be butchered by their dictators, why should I care?"

and

2). "We cannot in good consciousness force our pseudo-democratic capitalism by imperialistic means on the poor unwilling developing people of this ancient civilization with their own value!"

Is in the bulls--t and hypocracy factor, not in the intent or the results.

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Larspeart


Um, I think you missed the point of the thread. The Iraqis don't want us there. They don't want out presense, our government, our army, or our protection. Helping those who don't want to be helped is kicking a dead horse.

You took one line out of several to make a catty remark. You can do better then that.

They don't want us, and I don't want them. The solution 'should' be simple. We pull out, and they go back to what they had before; chaos and totalitarianism.

That's interesting how you know this for a fact because that seemed to contradict the poll that was run in that country not so long ago. And I am for one glad we don't run our foreign policy decisions by you since you act on feelings along, I guess it would be too much trouble to ask you to look at facts.

[Larspeart]

I don't know. I'd say that iraqis dragging dead and dying soldiers through the streets, beating them, stoning them, and dancing around their dead and slowly dying bodies would be a sign that the iraqis don't want us there.

For Further proof, the fact that none of the bystanders did anything about it (except more singing and praising of Allah at their triumph) serves to give me all the more prrof I need we aren't wanted.

And finally. . . I go back to my original 'why should I care?' mentality. I am an admitted Monroe Doctrine believer. I don't mess or meddle with you, you don't mess or meddle with me. It sure as hell works for Canada! When was the last time you saw Canada involved in an international crisis? Reason? They STAY OUT OF OTHER PEOPLES BUSINESS and if they see injustice in the world, they merely shrug their shoulders.

Canada is the shining example of foreign policy done right. How else has the country with the 2nd largest landmass, most natural resources, and thin population (along with an almost non-existent military) managed to NOT be threatened or taken over for 200 years??

I ENVY our neighbors to the north, and compliment them on their wise foreign policy.

[Grammatron]

Aside from the facts that ALL Iraqi people were not present during that horrible incident and Canadian forces were involved in the last Gulf War, supported subsequent embargo on Iraq and then the Afghan war, I guess you are correct. Of course the only thing you are correct about is that you don't care about anything that doesn't happen in your back yard.

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Larspeart
I don't know. I'd say that iraqis dragging dead and dying soldiers through the streets, beating them, stoning them, and dancing around their dead and slowly dying bodies would be a sign that the iraqis don't want us there.

For Further proof, the fact that none of the bystanders did anything about it (except more singing and praising of Allah at their triumph) serves to give me all the more prrof I need we aren't wanted.
And now today's news is that none of that actually happened.
Who knows?


Canada is the shining example of foreign policy done right. How else has the country with the 2nd largest landmass, most natural resources, and thin population (along with an almost non-existent military) managed to NOT be threatened or taken over for 200 years??

I ENVY our neighbors to the north, and compliment them on their wise foreign policy.
Wise in the sense they know that no one is going to mess with their territory situated as they are just north of a mean big brother.

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Skeptic


Well, at least he's honest.

After all, the only difference between:

1). "Let those sh--ty brown people be butchered by their dictators, why should I care?"

and

2). "We cannot in good consciousness force our pseudo-democratic capitalism by imperialistic means on the poor unwilling developing people of this ancient civilization with their own value!"

Is in the bulls--t and hypocracy factor, not in the intent or the results.

So true,
Crossbow and Larspear are two sides of the same crappy coin. Those who would dishonor our dead and at the same time betray those in Iraq who would fight beside us to take back their country and return to the international community a nation again guided by the rule of law. All we need do to make all that happen is to cut and run.

I can think of no disaster greater than to follow their advice and show that our government will not keep faith with an ally in need. There is no easier way to lose the WOT than to show the world how fickle public opinion guides the foreign policy of the world's #1 military power.

There are some things worth dying for. The good people of the nation of Iraq are worth the cost. As long as we remember that, we cannot lose.

-z

[Larspeart]

There are some things worth dying for. The good people of the nation of Iraq are worth the cost. As long as we remember that, we cannot lose.

-z [/B][/QUOTE]

Do you actually believe that crap?

Oy vay! 'The good people of Iraq'? You mean the ones that can't go ONE DAY without killing some young man in his 20's? A man that is supposed to be helping them to better themselves, restore hope, bring civility and peace to them?

I'll believe they are 'the good people of iraq' when I start to see them attack and beat the thugs and hoodlems who are killing our soldiers and slowing down THEIR countries rebuilding.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by rikzilla


So true,
Crossbow and Larspear are two sides of the same crappy coin. Those who would dishonor our dead and at the same time betray those in Iraq who would fight beside us to take back their country and return to the international community a nation again guided by the rule of law. All we need do to make all that happen is to cut and run.

I can think of no disaster greater than to follow their advice and show that our government will not keep faith with an ally in need. There is no easier way to lose the WOT than to show the world how fickle public opinion guides the foreign policy of the world's #1 military power.

There are some things worth dying for. The good people of the nation of Iraq are worth the cost. As long as we remember that, we cannot lose.

-z

Excuse me bucko, but before you go out and die for Iraq I feel compelled to tell you that I never said any such thing about having the USA cut and run in Iraq.

While I was vocal about my opposition to the war and I still do think that the war was unnecessary and the reasons for having it were quite flawed, if you will please look over what I have said since the war has ended and you will not see me saying, or even implying, this type of solution.