man doesn't eat/drink for 68 years

[I'll_buy_that]

Prahlad Jani of AHMEDABAD, India says he has survived 68 years without eating, drinking or relieving himself, baffling doctors who are unable to prove him an imposter.

He said he has been blessed and heard his calling when he was eight years old.

What a strange calling. Why would god need to do parlour tricks like this if he is so powerful. What does this prove anyway?


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1516&e=1&u=/afp/20031124/od_afp/india_old_health_offbeat_031124112815

but, I'm glad there are practical applications...

He said he wanted the ascetic to undergo experiments at NASA, as Jani's supposed feat could come in handy for astronauts

[uneasy]

Strange, there's another Indian man who claims the same thing that was discussed here, and he also said something about NASA. How did NASA get so popular with these starving men? Maybe because one got some good press with saying NASA, they all will now?

From Amazing Randi's commentary:
http://www.randi.org/jr/071103.html

[apoger]

>What does this prove anyway?


It's pretty good evidence that some people will believe any nonsense they hear, and that there will always be con men looking to take advantage of such people.

[El Greco]

The above are quacks, but it is worthmentioning that the longest period one has gone without food and drink (other than water) is about a year. This is not scam.

[Bikewer]

There was an IRA activist who starved himself to death a while back. In a hospital setting, with fluids, it took just under 30 days, as I recall.
With no nutrient intake whatever, I suspect this would be pretty much the case; the body rapidly goes into a severly unbalanced chemical state, which becomes irreversible after a certain point.

[Nucular]

Originally posted by El Greco
The above are quacks, but it is worthmentioning that the longest period one has gone without food and drink (other than water) is about a year. This is not scam. Reference?

Presumably he would've had to have had salt - as this New Scientist article (http://archive.newscientist.com/secure/article/article.jsp?rp=1&id=mg17924123.400) points out regarding David Blaine, he'd have passed out before the 44 days if he hadn't had some kind of secret supply of at least salt.

It also mentions various examples of hunger-strike people, etc., but no-one lasting a year - I think the longest the article mentions is 66 days.

Disclaimer: I keep missing subtle humour/irony just lately, please tell me I haven't done it again

[DarkPrimus]

There is a simple way to test this.

Put him in a sealed room (under observation, of course). Keep him there for a couple of months. Do not give him anything to eat or drink. Do not provide him with waste facilities.


If he's still alive without eating or drinking anything, then he is the real deal.

[DarkPrimus]

There is a simple way to test this.

Put him in a sealed room (under observation, of course). Keep him there for a couple of months. Do not give him anything to eat or drink. Do not provide him with waste facilities.


If he's still alive without eating or drinking anything, then he is the real deal.

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Nucular
Reference?

Presumably he would've had to have had salt - as this New Scientist article (http://archive.newscientist.com/secure/article/article.jsp?rp=1&id=mg17924123.400) points out regarding David Blaine, he'd have passed out before the 44 days if he hadn't had some kind of secret supply of at least salt.

It also mentions various examples of hunger-strike people, etc., but no-one lasting a year - I think the longest the article mentions is 66 days.

Disclaimer: I keep missing subtle humour/irony just lately, please tell me I haven't done it again

It was the Angus Barbieri case, lived for 382 days in a hospital on water and other virtually non-caloric drinks (soda, coffee, tea). Vitamins were given to him, but no food at all, solid or liquid. I think he's also mentioned in the Guinness book.

[Aoidoi]

Originally posted by El Greco
It was the Angus Barbieri case, lived for 382 days in a hospital on water and other virtually non-caloric drinks (soda, coffee, tea). Vitamins were given to him, but no food at all, solid or liquid. I think he's also mentioned in the Guinness book. Er... Soda? The can on my desk says 140 calories and 50mg of sodium. I don't think that's quite the same thing as discussed by the others. :)

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Aoidoi
Er... Soda? The can on my desk says 140 calories and 50mg of sodium. I don't think that's quite the same thing as discussed by the others. :)

Check "club soda" here (http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut_search.pl). Soda is zero calories. You must have a special kind of it.

It was an extreme case of survival on virtually zero calories. This is why it is in the Guinness book. A friend has a whole paper about it, I'll see if I can get it and post the link.

[SteveGrenard]

bikwer wrote: There was an IRA activist who starved himself to death a while back. In a hospital setting, with fluids, it took just under 30 days, as I recall.
With no nutrient intake whatever, I suspect this would be pretty much the case; the body rapidly goes into a severly unbalanced chemical state, which becomes irreversible after a certain point.

That would be Bobby Sands. Sands died at age 27 after 66 days in Maze Prison, Northern Island following a hunger strike.
Sands spent the last days of his life on a water bed to protect his fragile bones.

He had been in a coma for 48 hours before being pronounced dead by medical staff.

Blaine claims to have lived only on water but it would have been impossible for him to have survived his ordeal without some of that water having some carefully dosed salt dissolved in it.

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Nobody argue with me! I talk directly to science and science tells me a lot of things so I’m not to be questioned!

[GetAGrip]

Found some other links regarding this. Seems like 400 (!!) members of some institute have examined him.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/295761.cms

Somehow I don't buy it....

(Edit: Linked to same place twice)

[joyrex]

I bet he's high.

[El Greco]

Regarding Angus Barbieri, a few calculations prove that it was not an impossible case and in fact I believe it can be easily reproduced, provided that someone is cuckoo enough to attempt it.

Angus was 214kg when started, 80kg when he died. During his fast he lost 134kg. 1kg of fat is 9000kcal, but because of inefficient conversion of fat to energy in the body (augmented by the fact that he was certainly in ketosis), we will assume that 1kg of fat gave 7000 kcal. This is a total of 938,000 kcal. Divided by 382 days, we have about 2450kcal per day, which is a completely logical number for the Basal Metabolic Rate of a completely inactive, fasting man with an average weight of 150kg.

[Aoidoi]

Sorry about the delay, tried to mention this earlier and had some unforeseen technical difficulties. ;)

The numbers I gave were for a can of coke, which is what I had assumed you meant by "soda." My bad, regional dialect thing. :)

Assuming that he didn't die from lack of salt, scurvy, malnutrition, or anything else then the caloric calculation doesn't seem unreasonable (though I suspect the coversion of mass to energy is a bit high, perhaps someone else can comment).

214 kg? Are you sure the units are right on that? Cause if so, he was a very large man to begin with, and the weight at which he died wasn't too unreasonable...

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Aoidoi
Sorry about the delay, tried to mention this earlier and had some unforeseen technical difficulties. ;)

The numbers I gave were for a can of coke, which is what I had assumed you meant by "soda." My bad, regional dialect thing. :)

Assuming that he didn't die from lack of salt, scurvy, malnutrition, or anything else then the caloric calculation doesn't seem unreasonable (though I suspect the coversion of mass to energy is a bit high, perhaps someone else can comment).

214 kg? Are you sure the units are right on that? Cause if so, he was a very large man to begin with, and the weight at which he died wasn't too unreasonable...

If you google for the name you'll be able to confirm the weights.

Mass to energy conversion is also rather conservative. 7700 kcal per kg would be more accurate (see Lyle McDonald - The Ketogenic Diet).

Also conservative is the assumption that his BMR would be around 2450 kcal. Although for a healthy individual of 150kg the BMR would be around 2800-3000 kcal, extreme calorie reduction (> 1000 kcals below BMR) always results in an important decrease of BMR. We know that all this time he had being hospitalized, so it is logical to assume he had been completely sedentary. This (and lack of protein) would had inevitably led to muscle mass wasting, resulting in even further drop of the BMR.

[Attrayant]

Cecil Adams: Can man live by bread alone? (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_209.html)

In light of this, the Angus Barbieri case sounds possible since he was given nutrients & water.

[jimmygun]

My grandfather hasn't eaten or had anything to drink for 57 years! Of course he's been dead since 1946 but still, it does show a remarkable amount of will power.:D

[Aoidoi]

Sigh, all my googling keeps coming up with links to Blaine's stunt. Blaine annoys me. Oh well.

I like this one from here: http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_816212.html?menu=
But Guinness's keeper of records Stewart Newport said: "We have never encouraged actively claims for the longest time to voluntarily go without solid food for very clear and obvious reasons. If you beat the 'record' and then die is it a successful attempt?"

He pointed out that the longest hunger strike ended in 1973 after 385 days when Dennis Galer Goodwin protested his innocence in Wakefield Prison, West Yorkshire, of a rape charge. He was fed by tube orally.

The lengthiest period spent without solid food was 382 days when Angus Barbieri lived on tea, coffee, soda water and vitamins in Maryfield Hospital, Dundee in the mid Sixties. He lost more than 20 stone.20 stone and repeated references to him weighing more than 200kg at the beginning surely do mean he was a very large guy to begin with. The vitamins would prevent scurvy and malnutrition, so looks like simply lack of calories was what eventually did him in. Jarod eat your heart out.

Couldn't find a mention of it at http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/

So I'm a little confused if it is in there as a record or not.

Regardless of my interest in Mr. Barbieri's creative and lengthy method of suicide, Prahlad Jani is still telling tall tales.

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Aoidoi
Couldn't find a mention of it at http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/

That site features only 10% of the Guinness records.

[Aoidoi]

Originally posted by El Greco
That site features only 10% of the Guinness records. Well, that'd do it then. Just mentioned it because all the articles link to it and his record isn't there. :D

[Cinorjer]

Just thought I'd pass on the information that was in the article on the AP news wire about this "miracle man". His "test" that "baffled medical experts" was that he was observed for 10 days in a local hospital, and managed not to eat or drink anything, supposedly. Gee, 10 whole days! Then they let him go home. Guess that proves it!

[thaiboxerken]

There is a message board associated with the Yahoo Article and I've been arguing with the stupid believers in there about this "miracle man". Same stupid arguments come from the believers.... "science only knows so much" and "you are closed minded". They even go so far as to claim that Hindu isn't a religion but a philosophy.. and the most scientific philosophy. I wish it was possible to just beat some sense into these people.

[DarkPrimus]

Originally posted by Cinorjer
Just thought I'd pass on the information that was in the article on the AP news wire about this "miracle man". His "test" that "baffled medical experts" was that he was observed for 10 days in a local hospital, and managed not to eat or drink anything, supposedly. Gee, 10 whole days! Then they let him go home. Guess that proves it!

What sort of experts are those? Even I could go without food and drink for ten days, ESPECIALLY if I planned ahead, as this man no doubt did.

[Nova Land]

Originally posted by DarkPrimus

Even I could go without food and drink for ten days... Going without food for 10 days is not difficult. I speak from personal experience, as someone who has been on a couple of prolonged fasts (many years in the past).

Going without drink for 10 days is more difficult, if by drink we are including all liquid including water. As I recall what I was told, one risks both brain damage and death after several days without water. I've never had a desire to test that information out, but it sounds reasonable to me.

I can't access the New Scientist article to see how long it says a person can go without salt. If it's talking about 40 or more days, they may be correct. If they are talking about significantly less than 40 days, I would question that.

[thaiboxerken]

I'm still arguing with the idiot believers at yahoo about this. They claim that the doctors watching him for 10 days is enough evidence. Wow, these guys are stupid.

[Cinorjer]

I'm still arguing with the idiot believers at yahoo about this. They claim that the doctors watching him for 10 days is enough evidence. Wow, these guys are stupid.

Anyone who would take a claim like this seriously is beyond reach, probably. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and just because someone is a medical expert doesn't make them an expert on spotting tricks and desception. A few days spent in a hospital without falling over gasping for water is hardly a test.

The human body is not a closed system, expecially when it comes to water. We lose a certain amount by just breathing, even if we don't move around and sweat. And of course, water is needed to flush the byproducts of metabolism out of our bodies through our urine and feces. If his heart is beating, then he's getting food and water at regular intervals. The simple, logical explaination is that he's a liar, and in this case it's such an outragious claim that Randi would probably consider it a waste of time to challenge him.

Jerry

[chillzero]

Originally posted by Cinorjer
Just thought I'd pass on the information that was in the article on the AP news wire about this "miracle man". His "test" that "baffled medical experts" was that he was observed for 10 days in a local hospital, and managed not to eat or drink anything, supposedly. Gee, 10 whole days! Then they let him go home. Guess that proves it!

They gave him water for mouthwash every day.
Apparently they measured it before and after he rinsed his mouth. But, they say that's all he has had.

BBC web link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3236118.stm)
To help the doctors verify his claims, Mr Jani agreed to avoid bathing for his time in hospital.

The only fluid he was allowed was a small amount of water, to use as mouthwash.

One hundred millilitres of water were given to him, and then collected and measured in a beaker when he spat it out, to make sure none had been drunk.
A statement from Ahmedabad's Association of Physicians says that despite no water entering his body, urine nonetheless appeared to form in his bladder - only to be re-absorbed by the bladder walls.

[Darat]

Originally posted by cabby


They gave him water for mouthwash every day.
Apparently they measured it before and after he rinsed his mouth. But, they say that's all he has had.

BBC web link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3236118.stm)


Well from this then we know he actually did have some water, albeit a very tiny amount, since it seems safe to assume that if he put 100ml of water into his dry mouth he did not expel 100ml when he spat it out.

[chillzero]

Originally posted by Darat


Well from this then we know he actually did have some water, albeit a very tiny amount, since it seems safe to assume that if he put 100ml of water into his dry mouth he did not expel 100ml when he spat it out.

it says they measured it, but it doesn't clarify if it was ever different after, than before.

[Cinorjer]

I'm puzzled why people are impressed that "medical experts can't explain it". First, who are these so-called "medical experts" (Doctors? Not likely. How could a hospital in India possibly have 400 medical experts? That's more than John Hopkins).

Anyway, it doesn't matter if one or a thousand "medical experts" look at the guy. What are they looking for? Evidence of photosynthesis? All they can say is the guy's alive right now, and anyone could determine that. There is no possible medical condition that keeps someone alive for years without food and water. Therefore, there is no medical test to check if that's what happened. Yes, the medical experts have an explaination for it: the man is a fraud.

Sure, it looks good on paper, but these are the wrong people to be testing this claim. You obviously need people who know how to design a scientific test under controlled conditions, something these medical experts at this hospital obviously don't know how to do. Lock the guy up in a tested isolation chamber, and wait a few months. And none of this barely surviving nonsense. Since the man claims he hasn't eaten since he was a child, obviously he can thrive, put on weight and muscle through air alone.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
I'm still arguing with the idiot believers at yahoo about this. They claim that the doctors watching him for 10 days is enough evidence. Wow, these guys are stupid.

Tell them to join Jasmuheen's Living on Light (http://www.livingonlight.org/). You can't lose. One believer starved herself to death.


You see, she didn't believe.

[Mr Manifesto]

Ooh, more than one (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/b12.html)!

Here's Jamusheen and someone called Erik in a dimensional biofield. Whaddyamean you don't know what a dimensional biofield is?!?

http://www.jasmuheen.com/ezyedit/imagesLib/Showcase/GALLERYTOMMY5.jpg

[Mr Manifesto]

This has to be my favorite pic though. It just screams, "No! I don't need any mashed potatoes! I live on LIGHT!!! Well, maybe just one helping to be polite. Oh, do you want that steak there?"

http://www.kornax.com/Living_On_Light.jpg

[thaiboxerken]

That chick is hot, I have a small amount of protien I can offer her.

I went to the first URL you gave.. it sickens me how these sights use junk-science to spread their nonsense. If only freedom of expression applied to responsible people...

[Nucular]

Originally posted by Darat


Well from this then we know he actually did have some water, albeit a very tiny amount, since it seems safe to assume that if he put 100ml of water into his dry mouth he did not expel 100ml when he spat it out. He might have spat out more, what with the added saliva. Because presumably his feat includes the miraculous appearance of water in his body, since we expel water as e.g. sweat in order to stay alive too.

[thaiboxerken]

Believers of this story are now appealing to the fact that scientists have been wrong about other things. Sheesh, I guess believers believe for the same fallicious reasons no matter what the beliefs.

[Cinorjer]

Believers of this story are now appealing to the fact that scientists have been wrong about other things.

Oh yea. The old "They laughed at the Wright Brothers" argument. Well, they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. The strength of science is that we will admit when we're occasionally wrong, adjust our theories and build on it. The believers you're wasting your time arguing with will never admit when they're wrong, even though that's always been the case.

[The Don]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Tell them to join Jasmuheen's Living on Light (http://www.livingonlight.org/). You can't lose. One believer starved herself to death.


You see, she didn't believe.

Isn't this the one where they caught her having something to eat and she was like "oh, I don't really need to eat I only do it for the mouth feel " ?


Do they manage to delude thenmselves that they don't eat or do they sneak down in the middle of the night for a a few rounds of dripping on toast ?

[Darat]

Originally posted by The Don


Isn't this the one where they caught her having something to eat and she was like "oh, I don't really need to eat I only do it for the mouth feel " ?


Do they manage to delude thenmselves that they don't eat or do they sneak down in the middle of the night for a a few rounds of dripping on toast ?

I once heard her on a late night talk show and apparently it is not that she can’t or doesn’t eat/drink but that she doesn't need to eat or drink....

[The Don]

Riiiiiiight

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by The Don
...a few rounds of dripping on toast ?
What the heck is that? Bacon grease on toast?
It sound like Brit haute cuisine.

[Darat]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

What the heck is that? Bacon grease on toast?
It sound like Brit haute cuisine.

You don't know what dripping is?! You can't ever have had REAL fried bread then!

See here for a dripping cake to tempt the "I don't need to eat or drinkers"

http://www1.ukfood.tv/Recipes/Index.cfm?dKey=detail&cl=1959


(PS - I don't recommend if you are at work typing in "dripping" in google!)

[nick]

I work at a place where assorted groups (and kooks) make various forms of political protest. A couple of years back we had a guy on hunger strike. He turned up every morning at 8am and left at 6pm, and we didn't see him eat or drink a thing. Mind you, he left for two hours at lunchtime every day...

[Iamme]

This news is out of "guru-land", right. You know...where they have the maharahi yogi's and all those fake levitators? Welllllll! A few years ago, I clipped out and stuck to my refrigerator a similar story about "Breatharians". Didn't we discuss these people once, here? Anyway...you might want to check them out. There is this cult that lays claim to just what that Indian guy has done. Maybe not for 68 years, but............

[The Don]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

What the heck is that? Bacon grease on toast?
It sound like Brit haute cuisine.

Or beef, which is the best material in which to fry chipped potatoes mmmmmmmmmmm cholesterol

And before you get too down on the British, consider the Danish breakfast I had staying at a friend's farm on Fyn...

- Bacon dripping on toast
- Rollmops (pickled herring)
- Gameldansk

http://www.fluidtrade.co.uk/products.asp?ShowName=&ShowType=&ShowCategory=&ProdRef=549

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by The Don
And before you get too down on the British, consider the Danish breakfast I had staying at a friend's farm on Fyn...

- Bacon dripping on toast
- Rollmops (pickled herring)
- Gameldansk



What, no blue cheese, so ripe that it has to be chained to prevent it from running away? Tsk, tsk....

At least you tried Gammel Dansk - did you like it? Nice, warm feeling in the stomach, eh? ;)

Where on Fyn?

[The Don]

Originally posted by CFLarsen


What, no blue cheese, so ripe that it has to be chained to prevent it from running away? Tsk, tsk....

At least you tried Gammel Dansk - did you like it? Nice, warm feeling in the stomach, eh? ;)

Where on Fyn?

100% right on the cheese, I had tried to suppress that memory. At least the grease helped to soak up the effects of far too many Albanis

We stayed near Kvaerndrup and did most of our hanging out in Svendborg.

[Charlie in Dayton]

"Clarified beef dripping"? Translation, please...

I do know from personal experience that one can go for extended periods without eating, and survive quite nicely if there's a bodily excess to start with.

500 units vitamin E, 3 multivitamin supplements, 45mg dextroamphetamine, and all the water desired daily. Once a week, add two Polish sausages on buns, and one mug of beer. Maintain program for one calendar month.

I lost 32 pounds in 31 days, and I'll never abuse myself like that again. Of course, I'll never be bucking for promotion in the military again, either...

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by The Don
100% right on the cheese, I had tried to suppress that memory. At least the grease helped to soak up the effects of far too many Albanis

Ah. You definitely stayed on Fyn!! Albani is for fynboere...and they can have it!

Originally posted by The Don
We stayed near Kvaerndrup and did most of our hanging out in Svendborg.

Small world indeed: My mother grew up in a little village close to Kværndrup and I've spent many a summer on the farm, and in Svendborg, Tåsinge, Langeland, Ærø... :)

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

This must not be true since it violates the world views of hard-core skeptics and we all know that skeptics are intellectually superior therefore they have a monopoly on right thinking! This is a scientific fact!

:wink8: :hit: :crazy: :r:

[thaiboxerken]

This must not be true since it violates the world views of hard-core skeptics ..

No, it's not true because if violates the laws of physics and biological facts.. this is a scientific fact. Skeptics' views have nothing to do with it. It's just reality.

[thaiboxerken]

Ok, one of the idiot believers is claiming that this guy doesn't need to drink because there is moisture in the air, humidity. Can someone help me refute this, I really don't feel like looking up the equations myself. What is the humidity of human breath?

[Cinorjer]

All right, I'm not a doctor, but I didn't sleep through all of my biology classes in college. Our breath contains more water vapor than the surrounding air, unless you're in a steam room. Since engineers are concerned with keeping people comfortable indoors, they need to know this stuff and I found the following information on a site talking about the problems of handling the water vapor given off by large crowds in a closed building:

The average and comfortable humidity of air is around .5% water.
The human respiration contains around 6.2% water, at body temperature. We're talking steamy jungle type air. You'd need to be in a wet sauna to match this with the air around you. Without this extra water vapor going out, our throat and respiratory track would quickly dry out and cause all sorts of health problems. We wouldn't be able to talk, for instance.

But of course, the humidity of the miracle man's respiration wasn't checked, was it? The fact is, the human body is a big sponge, needing a fairly constant source of water to survive because of what we use up. We can go without food much longer than water, after all. We have a high rate of metabolism because of our size, mobility, and the energy requirements of a big brain.

[thaiboxerken]

Yea, I found that the humidity of human breath is around 95%. That's steamy jungle humidity. Even if someone lived in a place with 95% humidity, that humidity would cause them to sweat, causing more moisture loss.

That's ok, the biological facts clearly don't matter to these idiots. They keep saying that science is subjective and biological facts are only based on "what we understand now". Appeals to ignorance seem to be the bread and butter of belief.

[Iamme]

Can one of you guys help me out here. Could you kindly list in your next post, the site that I would like for you people to go to, who are truly interested in this 'not eating' business? Ask Google for "breatharians". Then when you get there, read the first site. Then, after you read that (short read), then scroll down to the 2nd listed site on the breatharian page, called "Historical Breatharians". This is the site I'd like someone to list here for anyone interested to quickly click on. Thank you.

[The Don]

Have clicked on it........

.........so what ?

A series of anecdotes.

"But some of the people reporting the anecdotes are doctors and some of the other cases have been investigated by their governments"

Doctors can be hoodwinked as easily as the next person. This is particularly the case when the person they are investigating supports some belief they espouse. Acqiuring a medical qualification does not make someone any less gullible or credulous.

There is a great dela of histoical evidence about governments making fantasical claims about their populace. In some cases it's becuase they're trying to support their leader's region (claims for extreme age in Georgia during Stalin's time) in others it's because they want to demonstrate that their people are "chosen" in some way (any of the hundreds of myths about divine intervention on the battlefield) or because of local commonly held beliefs.