From Rapture Ready

[Elizabeth I]

How in the heck does faith in the one true God cause people to be dumb or harm them in any way?

Well, one could look at the egotism, ignorance and dishonesty of your posts and conclude that such beliefs conduce to selfishness, ignorance and dishonesty.

[supercorgi]

Jesus is coming again just as scripture tells us and even if you don't believe in the rapture of the church like I do, I would suggest you be ready for his return to earth as it could happen at anytime by the looks of the world and how evil and corrupt it has become.

The world is made up of evil and goodness. Personally, I believe there is more goodness than evil. There's beauty, family, friends, little children, puppies, kittens and more. Why do you just focus (and endlessly harp on) the evil of the world? It seems like your salivating over the evil because that means that Jesus is going to return and damn most of the population to hell. That's such a nice thing to anticipate. :rolleyes: Kathy, by focusing on evil, and wishing hell on earth for most of the population, you are evil.

[Ethnikos]

. . .by focusing on evil, and wishing hell on earth for most of the population, you are evil.
Christians do not wish evil on anyone and would be quite happy for things to just continue on like Leave It To Beaver for hundreds of more years.
The fact that you imagine that good will alway prevail, suggests to me that you are not fully aware of the dark cloud coming over the world.
Things are going to be very bad, and very soon, not because the "good" people wish it on the bad people, but because it is the other way around.
Jesus raptures the church, not as a joke on the "bad" people but because if he did not, they would be killed one way or another.
The fact that we (the earth) have not experienced nuclear war is because God has restrained the hand reaching for the button. Soon enough, Satan's plan will work out. You are not going to be able to go along with your happy life, enjoying the goodness all around you, once the bombs go off.

[paximperium]

Jesus raptures the church, not as a joke on the "bad" people but because if he did not, they would be killed one way or another. He's playing favorites. Good for him.

The fact that we (the earth) have not experienced nuclear war is because God has restrained the hand reaching for the button. And that is the harm of religious belief. The belief man does not make its own decisions but some arbitrary tyrant does because he feels like it. In effect, it does nothing but steal credit from good things and causes people to rely on a fantasy to solve real problems.

Man will destroy or save itself because of its own decisions, not because of a fantasy supernatural sky daddy.

Soon enough, Satan's plan will work out. You are not going to be able to go along with your happy life, enjoying the goodness all around you, once the bombs go off.
Please go watch your Christian Snuff Porn in privacy. It is disgusting to do it in public.

[Ethnikos]

reply to paximperium
Man will destroy or save itself because of its own decisions, not because of a fantasy supernatural sky daddy.
"Man", man is going to save us? Which man, exactly? I don't think so.
That happened in the past, like the story of how memos went out to ignore Reagan if he orders to launch. They are smarter now and only allow generals who are totally subservient.
Please go watch your Christian Snuff Porn in privacy. It is disgusting to do it in public. The word "bombs" scares you? No wonder you have no clue. How are you supposed to know what is happening in the world if looking at anything with the word bomb in it disrupts your delusional world you choose to live in.

[Alareth]

So you said you take the Bible literally, does that mean you believe in the rapture of the church or not?

The problem being that the is no Rapture in the Bible. It is a contrivance that arose primarily in the United States in the 1800's as a result of Dispensationalism and the writings of John Nelson Darby.

Dispensationalism is cherry picking the Bible to get a narrative you like.

[paximperium]

"Man", man is going to save us? Which man, exactly? I don't think so.
That happened in the past, like the story of how memos went out to ignore Reagan if he orders to launch. They are smarter now and only allow generals who are totally subservient. Wow...talk about irrelevant nonsense.

The word "bombs" scares you? No wonder you have no clue. How are you supposed to know what is happening in the world if looking at anything with the word bomb in it disrupts your delusional world you choose to live in.Who are you talking to? The voices in your head?

You do realize that your "response" has nothing to do with what I wrote down?

[Ethnikos]

rely to Alareth;
The problem being that the is no Rapture in the Bible.
So, do you believe in a literal 144,000 that goes to heaven, and everyone else stays on earth?

[The Man]

reply to paximperium

"Man", man is going to save us? Which man, exactly?

Someone called? I’m always glad to help save the day.



I don't think so.
That happened in the past, like the story of how memos went out to ignore Reagan if he orders to launch.

So you “don’t think so” because you claim “That happened in the past”?



They are smarter now and only allow generals who are totally subservient.

Subservient to whom? How do they make that determination of total subservience? How would that make them ‘smarter’?



The word "bombs" scares you? No wonder you have no clue. How are you supposed to know what is happening in the world if looking at anything with the word bomb in it disrupts your delusional world you choose to live in.

Most people I’ve seen here are not scared by words and that includes the word dog in reverse. How are you with that particular word (forward or reversed)?

[Ethnikos]

rely to The Man;
A scientific dictatorship. That is what they claim for themselves. They study history and see how the other dictatorships failed and they figure out workarounds so they will be successful. The "they" are the ones who, for whatever demonic inspired reason, want to destroy the earth, while they wait it out in their deep underground bunkers.

[Alareth]

rely to Alareth;

So, do you believe in a literal 144,000 that goes to heaven, and everyone else stays on earth?

I believe in none of it. I just find it funny that someone that claims to be a bible literalist has set their sights on something that doesn't appear there.

[Ladewig]

rely to The Man;
A scientific dictatorship. That is what they claim for themselves. They study history and see how the other dictatorships failed and they figure out workarounds so they will be successful. The "they" are the ones who, for whatever demonic inspired reason, want to destroy the earth, while they wait it out in their deep underground bunkers.

What evidence did you use to arrive at the conclusion that there is a scientific dictatorship trying to destroy the earth? Also, could you list the agencies or people who are willing participants in this conspiracy? I am also interested in knowing which agencies, political parties, or people are unwitting pawns of these dictatorial scientists.

[Foster Zygote]

So, do you believe in a literal 144,000 that goes to heaven, and everyone else stays on earth?

Do you believe that you will be among the 144,000?

[The Man]

rely to The Man;
A scientific dictatorship. That is what they claim for themselves. They study history and see how the other dictatorships failed and they figure out workarounds so they will be successful. The "they" are the ones who, for whatever demonic inspired reason, want to destroy the earth, while they wait it out in their deep underground bunkers.

Oh, ‘A scientific dictatorship’, you do know that destroying your subjects would be one of those historically evident failures of dictatorships that they should be working around? Perhaps it was your god, having once flooded the Earth, who provided ‘them’ that “inspired reason”? Funny it doesn’t seem to have worked out well for him, so I would have to chalk that up as another one of those failed dictatorships to be worked around.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Soon enough, Satan's plan will work out. You are not going to be able to go along with your happy life, enjoying the goodness all around you, once the bombs go off.

So much for your omnipotent, omnibenevolent deity if one of his sub-deities can work around him:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

--Epicurus

[Sun Countess]

Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly. God is so busy keeping a handful of men's hands off the buttons of nuclear bombs that he's completely forgotten about all the innocent chidren who die of hunger, disease, and violence every day. Is that about right?

[Ethnikos]

What evidence did you use to arrive at the conclusion that there is a scientific dictatorship trying to destroy the earth? Also, could you list the agencies or people who are willing participants in this conspiracy? I am also interested in knowing which agencies, political parties, or people are unwitting pawns of these dictatorial scientists.
I did not make it up, that is what I was saying, it comes from their own writings. It is all the agencies. Most people involved do not realize what they are doing because they do not see the big picture because of the compartmentalization.
An example is one I just heard. An electrical engineer quit his job because he realized that everything that was available for him to work on was either to spy on people or ingenious ways to kill people.
The people who come up with solutions may not even realize that the problem their think-tank is working on is to be used to enslave people.
Spy networks are something long in existence and was started for maintaining the power of the Church. They became infiltrated by progressively more evil people who were willing to carry out these missions. When the CIA was created, guess who they recruited to be the founding members. They were already doing these sorts of nefarious activities but have no elegance to the United States.

[Ethnikos]

Do you believe that you will be among the 144,000?
That's a symbolic number and represents the twelve territories of Ancient Israel. It assures us that, even if the world blows up, we still have the inheritance that was promised by God.

[Foster Zygote]

That's a symbolic number and represents the twelve territories of Ancient Israel. It assures us that, even if the world blows up, we still have the inheritance that was promised by God.

So you're a virgin then?

[Ethnikos]

Oh, ‘A scientific dictatorship’, you do know that destroying your subjects would be one of those historically evident failures of dictatorships that they should be working around? Perhaps it was your god, having once flooded the Earth, who provided ‘them’ that “inspired reason”? Funny it doesn’t seem to have worked out well for him, so I would have to chalk that up as another one of those failed dictatorships to be worked around.The difference between "they" and God, is that God has no fear, just regret.
These "scientists" want to create their own version of humanity but if they just ask for volunteers to die, they might get some resistance. They are afraid of that and create false enemies in every country. If you lived in another country, your enemy most likely will be, guess who, us. If everyone pulls the trigger at one time, people will believe the propaganda, and assume it was the fault of the "enemy". That way they can look good and will not be attacked for being the real cause of the war.

[Ethnikos]

So you're a virgin then?

There are a few definitions for the Greek word translated as virgin.
The number two definition has to do with becoming ceremonially defiled, as in engaging the temple whores of the pagans.

[Ethnikos]

So much for your omnipotent, omnibenevolent deity if one of his sub-deities can work around him:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

--Epicurus
It is allowed to go on to the point that God can judge them. It has to progress pretty far because it is the final judgment, with no do overs.
Let's say you are a persecuted Christian and you are faced with either renouncing your religion or die, and are resolute in your decision, then your judgment is good as done and no need to continue to the bitter end.
On the other hand you are a persecutor and you are resolute in your decision to take it to its conclusion, no need to carry on, because you are already judged.
Once everyone is judged, the world ceases to be, any longer. That is why there has to be a rapture, at some point.

[Ethnikos]

Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly. God is so busy keeping a handful of men's hands off the buttons of nuclear bombs that he's completely forgotten about all the innocent chidren who die of hunger, disease, and violence every day. Is that about right?

Restraint is removed, at some point. The angels do the actual restraining. God only decides when to make it end. So God is not distracted.
God has a provision for those who died in the famine and they will live again in the future, but the time for the end of this old world is critical and is not something arbitrary.

[Ethnikos]

I believe in none of it. I just find it funny that someone that claims to be a bible literalist has set their sights on something that doesn't appear there.
I do not get overly concerned about the actual mechanics of it because I do not expect to be someone looking up and waiting for Jesus to show up. I do not go with the idea that God pulls all the good people off, before anything bad happens.
"If God did not cut the time short. there would be no one left", to paraphrase. what this means to me is we are to experience bad things to a pretty severe degree, and it also means someone will be left. Somehow God calls a halt to all activity. A rapture will be a good enough description as any, to explain what happens next. The main thing is we end up with a planet with not a single person left alive. We also end up with a large group of people who survived. They are not on the earth, but someplace else.

[The Man]

The difference between "they" and God, is that God has no fear, just regret.

So both use the same methods and achieve the same results, but one is not afraid although he is sorry?


These "scientists" want to create their own version of humanity but if they just ask for volunteers to die, they might get some resistance.

Why is killing people such an integral part for 'them' (or why would 'they' wnat) to “create their own version of humanity”? Was that also not gods reason in flooding the world, that he was displeased with the current “version of humanity”. When it comes to killing people to start a new world and new “version of humanity”, your god has supposedly already done it and it has not proven effective (otherwise there would be no 'they').



They are afraid of that and create false enemies in every country. If you lived in another country, you enemy most likely will be, guess who, us. If everyone pulls the trigger at one time, people will believe the propaganda, and assume it was the fault of the "enemy". That way they can look good and will not be attacked for being the real cause of the war.

So they are afraid “they might get some resistance” and they “create false enemies in every country” so those countries resist each other and kill each other thus accomplishing what you claim is their goal by causing what you claim they are afraid of? Do you even listen to yourself?

[Ethnikos]

Describing insanity is rather useless because if it was something rational, it would not be insanity.
Yes, they want everyone not under their direct control dead. A good way to do it is to poison the earth or kill people enough with highly explosive devices.
They want to be gods, and they want a nice depopulated earth to do it in.
Let's say you have a nice deep shelter where you do not have to worry about the actual explosions. You still have to live there long enough for things to cool down.
All the poor saps alive on the surface might not have a long life expectancy but they could summon up the energy to take revenge on the people who did this to them, if they were sure who it was, exactly.
Now they have these nice air vents and water supplies that work their way down to the shelter. If you thought one of these bad people were down there, you would figure out a way to disrupt it or poison it or whatever just as long as you could kill the bastards.
So, they work behind the scenes to manipulate events for maximum damage. They fund terrorists to cause strife among nations and do it in a way that they will eventually trace it back to us. If they do not have good enough weapons to attack us, they will provide them with the necessary ones.

[joobz]

Allright, now. fess up.
Who here had a huge heaping bowl full of crazypuffs for breakfast this morning?

[The Man]

Describing insanity is rather useless because if it was something rational, it would not be insanity.
Yes, they want everyone not under their direct control dead. A good way to do it is to poison the earth or kill people enough with highly explosive devices.

How about just flooding the Earth, it is claimed to have been done before for precisely the same reason? Would this not make god insane by that standard?



They want to be gods, and they want a nice depopulated earth to do it in.

Again it has been claimed to have been tried before by another supposed god.



Let's say you have a nice deep shelter where you do not have to worry about the actual explosions. You still have to live there long enough for things to cool down.
All the poor saps alive on the surface might not have a long life expectancy but they could summon up the energy to take revenge on the people who did this to them, if they were sure who it was, exactly.
Now they have these nice air vents and water supplies that work their way down to the shelter. If you thought one of these bad people were down there, you would figure out a way to disrupt it or poison it or whatever just as long as you could kill the bastards.
So, they work behind the scenes to manipulate events for maximum damage. They fund terrorists to cause strife among nations and do it in a way that they will eventually trace it back to us. If they do not have good enough weapons to attack us, they will provide them with the necessary ones.

You certainly seem to go out of your way to invent these scenarios “Describing insanity” of ‘these’ people that seem not so insane when ‘they’ are protecting ‘themselves‘? I ask again, do you listen to yourself.

[slingblade]

Once again, we see how fear dominates.

Nothing's going to save us from ourselves. We are all we have, and we'll sink or swim together or separately. Being afraid of each other is what we do. Fear and the urge to reproduce are what have led us to produce everything we have.

There is no loving superfather or supermother in the nether who will either rescue us, or destroy us. But the idea of such a being, the idea alone, has divided and torn us for centuries. It's our idea, we made it up, and we enforce it. But the fact remains, it is we who do it all.

If more people would get their heads out of the clouds, or out of their own behinds, and look at what needs doing right here, right now, it would help a lot of folks who desperately need help. But that won't happen, because the ones who need to do the helping are just too damned scared.

It's such a shame.

[Ladewig]

I did not make it up,

I never meant to imply that you did.
that is what I was saying, it comes from their own writings.

Can you be more specific?

An example is one I just heard. An electrical engineer quit his job because he realized that everything that was available for him to work on was either to spy on people or ingenious ways to kill people.

This part is kind of hard for me to believe. If the conspiracy is so large already that these people have access to the entire world's stock of nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, and have access to every delivery system ever devised, why would they have some mid- to entry-level electrical engineer work on new ways to kill people. It doesn't make sense. Isn't the more logical explanation that the electric engineer either made up the story, or misunderstood his options, or was suffering from mental illness?

[Monster Machine]

I don't even know where to start. I can't believe I thought as this person does for so many years...


I did not make it up, that is what I was saying, it comes from their own writings. It is all the agencies. Most people involved do not realize what they are doing because they do not see the big picture because of the compartmentalization.

Proof, please.


An example is one I just heard. An electrical engineer quit his job because he realized that everything that was available for him to work on was either to spy on people or ingenious ways to kill people.

Did he relate this story before or after his thorazine shot?


The people who come up with solutions may not even realize that the problem their think-tank is working on is to be used to enslave people.

Proof, please.

Spy networks are something long in existence and was started for maintaining the power of the Church. They became infiltrated by progressively more evil people who were willing to carry out these missions. When the CIA was created, guess who they recruited to be the founding members. They were already doing these sorts of nefarious activities but have no elegance to the United States.

Proof, please.


That's a symbolic number and represents the twelve territories of Ancient Israel. It assures us that, even if the world blows up, we still have the inheritance that was promised by God.

So, you are not a biblical literalist?

The difference between "they" and God, is that God has no fear, just regret.

That would mean god didn't really think his plan out when he made the universe. Not very omnipotent then, huh?


These "scientists" want to create their own version of humanity but if they just ask for volunteers to die, they might get some resistance. They are afraid of that and create false enemies in every country. If you lived in another country, your enemy most likely will be, guess who, us. If everyone pulls the trigger at one time, people will believe the propaganda, and assume it was the fault of the "enemy". That way they can look good and will not be attacked for being the real cause of the war.

Proof, please.


Restraint is removed, at some point. The angels do the actual restraining. God only decides when to make it end. So God is not distracted.

I'd like to see some proof on this one from the bible. Also, how can an omnipotent god be distracted?


God has a provision for those who died in the famine and they will live again in the future, but the time for the end of this old world is critical and is not something arbitrary.

More excuses for an impotent god.


Describing insanity is rather useless because if it was something rational, it would not be insanity.

Rational is in the eye of the beholder. I see a whole lotta crazy in these posts....

Yes, they want everyone not under their direct control dead. A good way to do it is to poison the earth or kill people enough with highly explosive devices.
They want to be gods, and they want a nice depopulated earth to do it in.
Let's say you have a nice deep shelter where you do not have to worry about the actual explosions. You still have to live there long enough for things to cool down.
All the poor saps alive on the surface might not have a long life expectancy but they could summon up the energy to take revenge on the people who did this to them, if they were sure who it was, exactly.
Now they have these nice air vents and water supplies that work their way down to the shelter. If you thought one of these bad people were down there, you would figure out a way to disrupt it or poison it or whatever just as long as you could kill the bastards.
So, they work behind the scenes to manipulate events for maximum damage. They fund terrorists to cause strife among nations and do it in a way that they will eventually trace it back to us. If they do not have good enough weapons to attack us, they will provide them with the necessary ones.

Wow.




So, Ethnikos, I would like to see some proof on the points above. It's great to make the outlandish claims you have made. But if you're going to make such claims, you need to back them up or people will think you're a few sandwiches short of a full picnic basket, if you know what I mean.

I would also like you to answer this - the god you are describing sounds weak and easily distracted to the point he has the hired help TCB while he does other stuff.

This is the being that created the universe? By the sounds of it, he couldn't create a peanut butter sandwich.

Monster

[Ethnikos]

How about just flooding the Earth, it is claimed to have been done before for precisely the same reason? Would this not make god insane by that standard?No, he had a legitimate reason to have regretted ever making man because of how evil they became. Because someone might question God for having destroyed the earth for no good reason, He is allowing men to play things out so there will be no question of how deserving they are of being destroyed.

Again it has been claimed to have been tried before by another supposed god.
Right, there was God who created the earth with no humans on it before he put them there. Once God did, they were people who resembled Him. If you were out there enough to believe you were god, you would want to emulate the real God and populate the earth with people in your own image.

You certainly seem to go out of your way to invent these scenarios “Describing insanity” of ‘these’ people that seem not so insane when ‘they’ are protecting ‘themselves‘? I ask again, do you listen to yourself.
They would never have to go out of there way to protect themselves if they were not planning unspeakably dastardly deeds.

[supercorgi]

Christians do not wish evil on anyone and would be quite happy for things to just continue on like Leave It To Beaver for hundreds of more years.
The fact that you imagine that good will alway prevail, suggests to me that you are not fully aware of the dark cloud coming over the world.
Things are going to be very bad, and very soon, not because the "good" people wish it on the bad people, but because it is the other way around.
Jesus raptures the church, not as a joke on the "bad" people but because if he did not, they would be killed one way or another.
The fact that we (the earth) have not experienced nuclear war is because God has restrained the hand reaching for the button. Soon enough, Satan's plan will work out. You are not going to be able to go along with your happy life, enjoying the goodness all around you, once the bombs go off.

So Ethnikos, it seem clear that you a religous/conspiracy nutjob. We're not about to destroy ourselves in any such dramatic way. We've lived through the age of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) in the 60's and 70's when the US and Russia had their fingers on the button. But rationality prevailed and it didn't happen. So your paranoid fantasies are unlikely.

Horrible things do happen, but mostly at the hand of religious (sure not your religion) extremists. But good people, of whatever religion, care about the world, their families, and their friends. Most people want to live in peace, to raise their children, love their families, and in some cases just to survive.

You say: "Christians do not wish evil on anyone and would be quite happy for things to just continue on like Leave It To Beaver for hundreds of more years." Yeah sure you do. :rolleyes: You just can't wait for the Rapture to prove us all sinners wrong.

I really feel sorry for people like you. People that can not appreciate the beauty of the world as it is right now, and instead, focus on a world doomed to destruction and judgement. It's such a small minded and depressing view that I don't understand how you tolerate it.

[Hokulele]

You say: "Christians do not wish evil on anyone and would be quite happy for things to just continue on like Leave It To Beaver for hundreds of more years." Yeah sure you do. :rolleyes: You just can't wait for the Rapture to prove us all sinners wrong.


Well, Christians like Ethnikos probably would love a "Leave It To Beaver" world.

Minorities and women, not so much.

[paximperium]

No, he had a legitimate reason to have regretted ever making man because of how evil they became. So your god is a genocidal mass murderer who killed untold numbers of men, women and children in your fantasy book. End of story.

Right, there was God who created the earth with no humans on it before he put them there. Once God did, they were people who resembled Him. If you were out there enough to believe you were god, you would want to emulate the real God and populate the earth with people in your own image. So humans are doing exactly what they were "designed" to do. To emulate what they resemble, a homicidal, egotistical genocidal god.

They would never have to go out of there way to protect themselves if they were not planning unspeakably dastardly deeds. Protect themselves from the crazies? People tend to protect themselves from lunatics by locking them up.

And has been asked. Do you listen to yourself?

[Ethnikos]

Once again, we see how fear dominates.
The evil ones need to be afraid because they do the works of evil. Christians need not fear because their salvation is assured.

Nothing's going to save us from ourselves. We are all we have, and we'll sink or swim together or separately. Being afraid of each other is what we do. Fear and the urge to reproduce are what have led us to produce everything we have.Tell that to the Global elite. They are the problem. They hate humanity and look at us as nothing better and maybe worse than animals. Again, the fear is that before they can kill everyone, people will wake up to the fact that they are being killed and try to do something about it. The fact that the populous, as a whole is not afraid is what makes the elite feel justified in killing us because it is perceived by them as evidence that we are so many dumb animals.
There is no loving superfather or supermother in the nether who will either rescue us, or destroy us. But the idea of such a being, the idea alone, has divided and torn us for centuries. It's our idea, we made it up, and we enforce it. But the fact remains, it is we who do it all.There are always men who want to lord it over others and religion is the easiest way to do that because people have a natural inclination to look to a higher power, and there is always someone ready to jump in and claim to be god or someone you have to go through to find god.

If more people would get their heads out of the clouds, or out of their own behinds, and look at what needs doing right here, right now, it would help a lot of folks who desperately need help. But that won't happen, because the ones who need to do the helping are just too damned scared.

It's such a shame.Amen to that, brother. I do not buy into the pre-tribulation rapture thing because it gives people an excuse to sit back and let things go to hell because they think they will not have to live in the hell they see being made around them. It is pathetic.

[Paulhoff]

Magical thinking begets magical thinking begets............

I still waiting for someone to show me a real god, not these so-called gods that have problems with the beings that they create, and their only solution is killing.

Paul

:) :) :)

[Ethnikos]

I never meant to imply that you did.
There is a large amount of this stuff out there because they feel they are at the point that no one will be able to stop them now.

Can you be more specific?
David Rockefeller just came out with a new statement saying that if people want to accuse him of being a globalist and manipulating things in world politics to bring it about, then fine because he is happy to admit it is true.

This part is kind of hard for me to believe. If the conspiracy is so large already that these people have access to the entire world's stock of nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, and have access to every delivery system ever devised, why would they have some mid- to entry-level electrical engineer work on new ways to kill people. It doesn't make sense. Isn't the more logical explanation that the electric engineer either made up the story, or misunderstood his options, or was suffering from mental illness?
Nuclear weapons are obviously not the cleanest way to do the job and is the last resort method, only to be used in the case that people do wake up to what is going on. they would rather do it by spreading bio-weapons that are two part. That way, there is no way they will not get the disease themselves. the perfect way is to spread an engineered virus and as soon as people have it, they immediately force mandatory vaccinations with the second part that combines and then kills you. they, of course will know better than to take it. The total surveillance on the people will allow them to make sure everyone takes the shots.

[paximperium]

The evil ones need to be afraid because they do the works of evil. Christians need not fear because their salvation is assured.
Translation: Worship my god or he will kill you.

Tell that to the Global elite. They are the problem. They hate humanity and look at us as nothing better and maybe worse than animals. Again, the fear is that before they can kill everyone, people will wake up to the fact that they are being killed and try to do something about it. The fact that the populous, as a whole is not afraid is what makes the elite feel justified in killing us because it is perceived by them as evidence that we are so many dumb animals. Still waiting for evidence to back up your paranoid fantasy.

There are always men who want to lord it over others and religion is the easiest way to do that because people have a natural inclination to look to a higher power, and there is always someone ready to jump in and claim to be god or someone you have go through to find god. So what criteria do you use to know if YOU are the right side or are you making things up as you go along?

Amen to that, brother. I do not buy into the pre-tribulation rapture thing because it gives people an excuse to sit back and let things go to hell because they think they will not have to live in the hell they see being made around them. It is pathetic.I'm actually all for it. It prevents nuts from attempting to actually try to cause the events in their fantasies.

[paximperium]

Nuclear weapons are obviously not the cleanest way to do the job and is the last resort method, only to be used in the case that people do wake up to what is going on. they would rather do it by spreading bio-weapons that are two part. That way, there is no way they will not get the disease themselves. the perfect way is to spread an engineered virus and as soon as people have it, they immediately force mandatory vaccinations with the second part that combines and then kills you. they, of course will know better than to take it. The total surveillance on the people will allow them to make sure everyone takes the shots.
In the real world when people ask for evidence, you are suppose to present evidence NOT produce more fantasy.

Why are religious right wingers almost universally also Anti-vaxers?

[Ethnikos]

I don't even know where to start. I can't believe I thought as this person does for so many years...
You decided to not believe in conspiracies? So you believe David Koresh killed his own people and an amfo bomb took down the Murrow building, and 19 Arab hijackers pulled off 911?

So, you are not a biblical literalist?
The Book of Revelation is pure symbology. Of course there are real events that are described in it but there are things that are meaningless in a literal way, like all the colors that have certain meanings that they represent.

That would mean god didn't really think his plan out when he made the universe. Not very omnipotent then, huh?He is omnipotent, but that does not mean he has to create a universe that is predetermined. He can be omniscient and not prescient. In order to make a universe to put a man in it who will be like Him, (god-like) He made a world where man has free will. For man to have free will, the nature of the universe and how it works has to be at least partially random. God can predict things and He can cause things to happen within the degree of flexibility of a random world, to have his will be done, but it requires constant consciousness of what is happening, as it happens.

I'd like to see some proof on this one from the bible. Also, how can an omnipotent god be distracted?The four angels who hold back the winds.

So, Ethnikos, I would like to see some proof on the points above. It's great to make the outlandish claims you have made. But if you're going to make such claims, you need to back them up or people will think you're a few sandwiches short of a full picnic basket, if you know what I mean.There is lots of proof for this stuff if you look for it. Probably my best source is Dr. Deagle who has a radio show and web site. He thrives on whistle-blowers.

I would also like you to answer this - the god you are describing sounds weak and easily distracted to the point he has the hired help TCB while he does other stuff.God allocates work on a wide scale. He has spirit beings numbered in the trillions to carry out the work. I do not have a problem with that. God is so far above us as to what He/She is that he is at least four steps above us and we do not even understand the ones two steps below Him/Her.

This is the being that created the universe? By the sounds of it, he couldn't create a peanut butter sandwich.

MonsterHmm. Well I realize I can not adequately describe God and what seems to be slackness in Him to us, is really compassion.

[Ethnikos]

So Ethnikos, it seem clear that you a religous/conspiracy nutjob. We're not about to destroy ourselves in any such dramatic way. We've lived through the age of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) in the 60's and 70's when the US and Russia had their fingers on the button. But rationality prevailed and it didn't happen. So your paranoid fantasies are unlikely. You obviously are not up to date on our nuclear policy. What kept us safe was what is called Launch on Warning. Our new policy is to launch after a first strike has ended. We have a nice little deal with the Russians that we keep half of our submarines in port at all times so they can take them all out with a first strike that we plan to absorb. Their words, not mine.

Horrible things do happen, but mostly at the hand of religious (sure not your religion) extremists. But good people, of whatever religion, care about the world, their families, and their friends. Most people want to live in peace, to raise their children, love their families, and in some cases just to survive. That is true. The only problem is there is a new religion which is really an old religion which is told in Daniel,"they worship a god of fortresses, which their fathers did not recognize." That was who he describes as bringing in the end of the world.

You say: "Christians do not wish evil on anyone and would be quite happy for things to just continue on like Leave It To Beaver for hundreds of more years." Yeah sure you do. :rolleyes: You just can't wait for the Rapture to prove us all sinners wrong. I was brought up on the idea that the world was going to end in our life time and I have always hated it. I wish it was not true but I see all the things happening in our face, that was foretold.

I really feel sorry for people like you. People that can not appreciate the beauty of the world as it is right now, and instead, focus on a world doomed to destruction and judgment. It's such a small minded and depressing view that I don't understand how you tolerate it.I do appreciate the world. I have kayaks and go out and enjoy things that are natural and beautiful. I used to spend a lot of time hiking in the mountains and being in nature. I love people and do not want bad things to happen to them. That is why I would take the trouble of warning them, so they can escape the calamities that are coming.

[Ethnikos]

So what criteria do you use to know if YOU are the right side or are you making things up as you go along?I am constantly fighting that religion on the religion forums. The idea that there is a priesthood we have to go to to get our salvation, one piece at a time. So that would be my criteria, that if you say, "I have the power to give or not give your piece of daily salvation, so respect my authority." then you are wrong, without any further investigation.

[dropzone]

There are a few definitions for the Greek word translated as virgin.
The number two definition has to do with becoming ceremonially defiled, as in engaging the temple whores of the pagans.So that's a "no?" Since your member has not been sullied by a temple whore, though it has by innumerable street whores, you retain your virginity?

I jumped to the last page to see if it had advanced in theological depth from the first. On the one hand, no. On the other hand, the posters on Page 1 have NOTHING on Ethnikos. Rapturists, I know a few. Outright NUTS are harder to find.

[Ethnikos]

So that's a "no?" Since your member has not been sullied by a temple whore, though it has by innumerable street whores, you retain your virginity?I looked it up yesterday because someone asked the same sort of thing. on another forum I was on. My statement is based on what I remember but you might want to look it up yourself. I was using NetBible. The idea is something to do with idolatry. What I like to do is compare it to the ones who fornicate with the whore in scarlet and purple who rides on the back of the Beast, in Revelation.
So, right, street whores do not count.

I jumped to the last page to see if it had advanced in theological depth from the first. On the one hand, no. On the other hand, the posters on Page 1 have NOTHING on Ethnikos. Rapturists, I know a few. Outright NUTS are harder to find.That's why I have to periodically come on this forum to see how crazy I come off. Where I normally post, people think I am very reasonable.
Seriously, we are living in a world where TV is completely government controlled. Go on-line and read the European and Russian and English papers and find out we are not given even half of what is going on. Overseas, people are laughing at us for how stupid we are. Pravda has headlines "America goes into Marxism Without a Whimper".

[paximperium]

I am constantly fighting that religion on the religion forums. The idea that there is a priesthood we have to go to to get our salvation, one piece at a time. So that would be my criteria, that if you say, "I have the power to give or not give your piece of daily salvation, so respect my authority." then you are wrong, without any further investigation.
So basically, "Whatever I feel like."

[Ethnikos]

So basically, "Whatever I feel like."
I suppose, yes. I am trying to think of a reason why we would need a big institution that feeds off us for its support that has a large number of paid people who's job it is to be intercessors between us and heaven, giving us salvation with one hand and punishing us with the other. God has made provision for us in understanding his word. The official so-called church, which is really a corporation, if left on its own and given a status of being unquestionable in its authority, would never bother actually teaching the masses about the fine points of theology, but treat their charges as so many slaves, living themselves in splendor and fat, with the peasants working all day toiling and living in hovels and hungry.
We can do a lot better by being allowed to own our own personal Bible where we can read it with our own understanding, and asking God for direct revelation to what it means, spiritually.

[GeeMack]

I suppose, yes. I am trying to think of a reason why we would need a big institution that feeds off us for its support that has a large number of paid people who's job it is to be intercessors between us and heaven, giving us salvation with one hand and punishing us with the other.


But giving you salvation with one hand and punishing you with the other pretty much sums up the consensus view of the Christian god. You're just talking about leaving out the middle-man. Of course you'd agree that is no more rational than buying into the church.

[Paulhoff]

When is this so-called christian (and the other) so-called gods, going to speak up for themselves? I'm a little tired of all these people spinning their versions of what it has to say.

Paul

:) :) :)

[Ethnikos]

But giving you salvation with one hand and punishing you with the other pretty much sums up the consensus view of the Christian god. You're just talking about leaving out the middle-man. Of course you'd agree that is no more rational than buying into the church.
My contributions on this forum have a way of ending up as lectures on religion.
Rational, I think so from a nonbeliever's viewpoint but based on belief, from mine. It is not only right, but imperative, on our parts. With blessings come much responsibility, and we need to "work out our own salvation" meaning to come to it on our own. Also "do not let any man call you father" pretty much kills the idea of a priesthood.

[Elizabeth I]

Wow! A twofer - a religiosity AND a spun-out-of-control CTer!

It's two - two - two nuts in one!

[Paulhoff]

With blessings come much responsibility
No there doesn't, blessings from which so-called god.

Paul

:) :) :)

[The Man]

I looked it up yesterday because someone asked the same sort of thing. on another forum I was on. My statement is based on what I remember but you might want to look it up yourself. I was using NetBible. The idea is something to do with idolatry. What I like to do is compare it to the ones who fornicate with the whore in scarlet and purple who rides on the back of the Beast, in Revelation.
So, right, street whores do not count.

If the street is their temple and the exchange of money for such defiling is just part of that ceremony, what then? It would seem a matter entirely up to the whore, would it not?


That's why I have to periodically come on this forum to see how crazy I come off. Where I normally post, people think I am very reasonable.
Seriously, we are living in a world where TV is completely government controlled. Go on-line and read the European and Russian and English papers and find out we are not given even half of what is going on. Overseas, people are laughing at us for how stupid we are. Pravda has headlines "America goes into Marxism Without a Whimper".

Well you have certainly succeeded with your first objective. So you are citing a government controlled paper (Pravda) as giving us the other “half of what is going on” that is not provided by our own media which you also claim is government controlled? Again do you listen to yourself?

[The Man]

Allright, now. fess up.
Who here had a huge heaping bowl full of crazypuffs for breakfast this morning?

I always have a big heaping bowl full of Cuckoo Krispies, just to prepare myself for discussions like this.

[Moochie]

I think Ethnikos is spinning us a yarn.


M.

[Emerson Street]

There is lots of proof for this stuff if you look for it. Probably my best source is Dr. Deagle who has a radio show and web site.

Wow! (http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.com/2008/02/dr_27.html) judging by what I just read about him, this guy makes YOU look sane!

Please keep in mind the Membership Agreement and do not use personal attacks to argue your point.

[Ethnikos]

In the real world when people ask for evidence, you are suppose to present evidence NOT produce more fantasy.

Why are religious right wingers almost universally also Anti-vaxers?
Here's a question for you.
Do you think you should be concerned that the same lab making your vaccine is also creating bio-weapons for the military?

[Chaos]

I think Ethnikos is spinning us a yarn.


M.

A yawn, actually.

[Ethnikos]

Wow! (http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.com/2008/02/dr_27.html) judging by what I just read about him, this guy makes YOU look sane!
The guy is a virologist and knows all about the current virus causing the stage five alerts. He calls it the Mexican flu. He has all kinds of quests to discuss what the globalists are doing. There are law suits right now against the government for on purpose releasing these engineered viruses on the population for imposing martial law.
I seem to be getting off track of the topic of this thread. What I wanted to say was that there is something going on in the world, that will, one way or another create a crises to where God will have to intervene to take out a few survivors.
I do not buy into the theory that the entire bunch of "believers" get taken wholesale, off the planet before anything bad ever happens. That type of thinking just accelerates the bad things happening. To think that it is a good thing to contribute to the crises, with the idea that the sooner the better, is plain wrong. If God wanted things fast, it would have been done a long time ago, and before you were born, so think about that.
I am probably preaching to the choir and all the happy pre-tribbers are over on rapture-ready, having a big party and congratulating themselves about how everything is going to hell.

[GeeMack]

My contributions on this forum have a way of ending up as lectures on religion.
Rational, I think so from a nonbeliever's viewpoint but based on belief, from mine. It is not only right, but imperative, on our parts. With blessings come much responsibility, and we need to "work out our own salvation" meaning to come to it on our own. Also "do not let any man call you father" pretty much kills the idea of a priesthood.


In English, please.

[Paulhoff]

Here's a question for you.
Do you think you should be concerned that the same lab making your vaccine is also creating bio-weapons for the military?
Proof.

Paul

:) :) :)

[paximperium]

Here's a question for you.
Do you think you should be concerned that the same lab making your vaccine is also creating bio-weapons for the military?
Hey a no answer! Why am I not surprised?

Which lab is this? GSK? Merck? The CDC?
You mean the experts in infectious disease are making a vaccine against a disease? Wow!!!

You may be surprised but vaccines are made in the UK.

[paximperium]

The guy is a virologist and knows all about the current virus causing the stage five alerts. No. He is a GP and has as much insight into this as any medical professional.

He calls it the Mexican flu. Hey, just like everyone else does. He can call it whatever he wants. It is called the H1N1 Influenza Virus.

He has all kinds of quests to discuss what the globalists are doing. There are law suits right now against the government for on purpose releasing these engineered viruses on the population for imposing martial law. Docket number and court where this has been filed.

[Ethnikos]

Proof.

Paul

:) :) :)
I have to work on that one because it was a discussion on the radio show. I will have to dig around to see if I can find any documents. It is the subject of another law suit so there should be something.
Meanwhile he is one of the things I mentioned earlier from a book by David Rockefeller:
"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."

[Roadtoad]

I should have known. :mad:

Ethnikos, you don't know me, but I know your type. John Torrell (http://www.eaec.org/index.htm) has been spewing this same drivel for years, and while I was working in Christian radio, his outfit began sending me "information" of the same sort you have begun posting. The facts don't support your views, but I'm pretty sure you won't be interested in anything as mundane as facts. After all, you have "faith."

Let me ask you this: At what point do your words become taking the Lord's name in vain? It's not as simple a question as you might think.

Consider it this way: Following the victory at Jericho, Israel was next taking on the town of Ai. The leaders among Israel told Joshua, "We don't need to take the entire camp. We only need to take a few of the men."

Instead of a victory, it became a rout, with Israel losing 36 men, IIRC. Joshua, deflated, went off to pray, only to be confronted by a "man of God," one with a sword, who demanded to know why Joshua was praying while there was sin in the camp. (It was later revealed that Achan had done a bit of looting at Jericho, even though that had been strictly forbidden by God, as he wanted Jericho totally destroyed.)

Were Joshua's words taking God's name in vain?

Frankly, in my own view, they were. Joshua had been called upon to fulfill certain responsibilities, and he'd focused on other things rather than what he was called to. He was wrapped up in junk, and as a result, he failed to keep sin out of the camp.

Problem is, you're doing the same thing. This BS about David Rockefeller is just that, and it allows you to ignore the realities of what you claim you are and the responsibilities you're supposed to be fulfilling. "We can't help with the homeless, the hungry, the sick, the imprisoned. It's the fault of the Trilateral Commission!"

And as you perpetuate this silliness, you also focus on the Last Days, riffing about how Jesus is coming, and you have to get ready for Him! "We just don't have time to get involved in this other stuff!"

See, I know this tale backwards and forwards. I know the horror stories that get told to perpetuate the myths, and I know the false comfort which gets created with a Pre-Trib Rapture tale, and how it's supposed to "encourage" the faithful, ignoring the realities that there are people who are actually suffering right now, who need help, but aren't getting it. Tithes and offerings go to building funds, rather than supporting the real needs of the communities that churches are supposed to be serving. The churches that are meeting the needs are damned by Evangelicals as being "too liberal," and are left struggling, while others grow into bloat vomiting forth a "gospel" that offers comfort for people who are seeking to validate their ignorance of basic science, common decency, and reasoned compassion.

I know your people well. I was once one of them.

I rejected it, and moved on.

Rapture Ready, with it's mass hypnosis of people into believing that the end is nigh, ignoring the very reality that even if it is, there are needs, panders to this kind of sympathetic stupidity, allowing the self righteous to preen before the faithless. It reveals a very real hatred and prejudice against any and all who dare to question their pseudo-orthodoxy, one which, if you've ever read of the early Church, would have brought about the most vociferous denials from the Council of Nicea. St. Athanasius would have been as brutal in his denials of this "gospel" has he was in denying the Aryan Heresies, and it would have been equally damned by Johann Huss and John Calvin. Rapture Ready promotes a fraud, offering a stone for bread where bread is desperately needed.

And this is the false promise your sermons, as well as those of Hamelekim, Kurious Kathy, Christian Dude, and so many others before. It's a waste of bandwidth and time.

SuperCorgi nailed it. There's a real underlying cruelty to what it is you're promoting, and perpetuating a myth like this in the name of "salvation" is one of the more barbaric hoaxes promoted. Doing so under the claim of being a "Philadelphian Church" is even more insulting; most people realize you're not being persecuted for your beliefs, but prosecuted for your lack of necessary action in the face of real needs. (Or, to cop a line from Torrell, "When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth,
he will either quit being mistaken, or cease to be honest.")

See, I understand this kind of thing from you well. It's a distraction, every bit as much as the BS about Brad, Angelina, and Jen, or the latest nonsense about Michelle Obama and the kids. (Is it just me, or do we really need to hear another tale about the First Puppy, particularly when it's being reported by Harvard Medical that the number of Medical Bankruptcies in this country are increasing, and that the majority of those going BK have private insurance? And that Congress has allowed loopholes in medical coverage to give the insurers an out when coverage for a particular claim gets "too expensive?")

Sorry, but your arguments are trite, if they have any substance at all. And the "truth" of your "gospel" has been refuted time and again. You not only can use outside sources to investigate Scripture, you damned well should. If you're going to uphold one book as Supreme in human understanding and knowledge, it must withstand all honest scrutiny from all angles.

Yet, even if it's just a collection of apocryphal tales, you would think at the very least it provides some rational understanding of the basics of human compassion. That a person shouldn't pick a farm field clean, so those who are hungry can glean from the field and eat. That healing and feeding those in need are valid reasons to break a Sabbath. That a human being's welfare should come first, and that those needs should be met by his fellow man. (You did read the Book of Acts and the Letter from James, didn't you?) Please, don't insult me by claiming I'm making a Judas argument. It's quite the opposite. This drivel about evil conspiracies is a smoke screen for your own decision to deny mercy to those who need it.

I see the results of this, and so does my Christian wife, who is now questioning what it is she believes and why she believes it. She reads what people like you have to say, spoken from a Laodicean mindset, she begins to challenge what she reads in her Bible, and is wondering if she has been sold a bill of goods. It is causing her real pain, and it's pain I know well myself. I've been there. And I can't make it go away; she has to go through it herself.

Just a little heads up to you, Sir: come here, and you WILL be challenged on what you say, whether you agree with another person or not. And given the extraordinary claims you make regarding your god and whom you declare an opponent to yourself, you damned well had better expect it. To borrow from another source, yes, it does take more faith to believe in something like Evolution as opposed to Creation. But true Faith is based upon what can be observed and repeated. It will withstand the challenges put forth, and where it does not, it will be revised and revisited, re-examined and retested. And in doing so, true Faith will grow stronger.

And true Faith does not support faith in a god who ignores the real needs he has created. Frankly, if I were to treat my dog in the same way your god treats his people, I would be arrested for cruelty to an animal, and I'd damned well deserve it. Placing a bowl of food in front of a hungry creature, then telling the animal to not eat it is a vicious act. If for you it's simply a question of obedience, for me, it's an act of barbarity.

In fact, I'm reminded of a time in school: we had a Chemistry teacher who one week told us a tale of a bunch of students he had. These kids were horrible cheaters, and he decided to teach them a lesson. He gave them a quiz, left a false answer key on the front lectern, then walked out.

Of course, every kid had the same answers on the quiz, the false ones left on the lectern. They all failed the quiz.

Then he pulled the same stunt on us.

I had no respect for the man after that. None.

And I have none for your god, either. Or you.

[Roadtoad]

Here's a question for you.
Do you think you should be concerned that the same lab making your vaccine is also creating bio-weapons for the military?

If you're worried about it, why aren't you investing in companies that could make vaccines without producing bio-weapons? Put your money where your mouth is, or close your mouth.

[Ethnikos]

In English, please.

We need to come to a spiritual understanding about God and we can only do it on our own. We do not go to a priest who is an initiate in the divine mysteries to just give us symbols of our salvation.
It needs to be heart felt and to cause us to make a spiritual connection with God and to gain understanding. There is eventually a change in your behavior that can only be a result of the spirit working inside you.
The symbolic system denies the full payment for our salvation and that understanding is removed. The understanding that leads to your spiritual connection is substituted for something that is doled out piecemeal.
It has an appearance of being a life changing event, but it throws you into a state worse than the one you started with. (I am talking about the false system.) It says, "this ritual just made you a new person and now, you have free will and are absolved from any previous sin and the sins of your ancestors. But if you go ahead and sin now, it is all your fault and you have to join this regime of having every sin you commit, from now on, dealt with one at a time."
That forces you to involve your salvation with a man in a robe who meters out your salvation, instead of Jesus who died, once for all sin. Being continually under a curse of sin in the false system does not allow you to be free to actually go forward and have a better chance of avoiding sinful activity.

[paximperium]

We need to come to a spiritual understanding about God and we can only do it on our own. We do not go to a priest who is an initiate in the divine mysteries to just give us symbols of our salvation.
It needs to be heart felt and to cause us to make a spiritual connection with God and to gain understanding. There is eventually a change in your behavior that can only be a result of the spirit working inside you. Translation: "You must first believe to believe and then I get to make up whatever I want."

That forces you to involve your salvation with a man in a robe who meters out your salvation, instead of Jesus who died, once for all sin. Being continually under a curse of sin in the false system does not allow you to be free to actually go forward and have a better chance of avoiding sinful activity. Since most here don't even believe there was a Jesus described in the Bible, you preaching continues to NOT be evidence.

[Ethnikos]

Hey a no answer! Why am I not surprised?
Which lab is this? GSK? Merck? The CDC?
You mean the experts in infectious disease are making a vaccine against a disease? Wow!!!
You may be surprised but vaccines are made in the UK.
"Experts in infectious disease"? I am talking about creating viruses meant to kill people. Those are the people you want making something that is going to be injected in your body?
You may be surprised that some of our vaccines are made in China. Feel better, now?

[paximperium]

Still waiting. Which lab? CDC, NIH, GSK, Abbott, Stanford, UPenn, Harvard?
"Experts in infectious disease"? I am talking about creating viruses meant to kill people. Those are the people you want making something that is going to be injected in your body? Why are you typing on your computer? Many of the servers and computer chips used on the internet(and YOUR computer) are used to test Nuclear weapons!!!!!!

In fact the NSA is likely listening to you right now. Did you hear a knock at your door?
Why aren't you hiding in a little shack in a small island?
You may be surprised that some of our vaccines are made in China. Feel better, now?Actually reality says you are wrong. Do you have anything to say that is based in reality and not fantasy land?

[Ethnikos]

If you're worried about it, why aren't you investing in companies that could make vaccines without producing bio-weapons? Put your money where your mouth is, or close your mouth.For one thing, I do not have any money to invest.
As for your previous post, I think you have me confused with someone else.
Talking about evil plans by people who think all humans other than themselves should be killed to "save the planet" does not automatically make me a pre-tribber. I am all for helping people and even if I do not have money I take in people who would otherwise be homeless, so it is not like I am making excuses to do nothing.

[GeeMack]

Removed for rule 12 violation.

[Ethnikos]

Still waiting. Which lab? CDC, NIH, GSK, Abbott, Stanford, UPenn, Harvard?
Why are you typing on your computer? . . .In fact the NSA is likely listening to you right now. Did you hear a knock at your door?
Why aren't you hiding in a little shack in a small island?
Actually reality says you are wrong. Do you have anything to say that is based in reality and not fantasy land?If you were around for when I was posting on the "uselessness of prayer" thread, you would realize I am not too worried about death. The internet as we know it will end soon enough. I am not going to speed up the end of freedom of speech by stopping myself.
Pretty soon you will be bio-scanned for your identity before you can put anything up on the internet. That, in itself will intimidate a lot of people for fear of the new internet hate speech bill. Right now, you can not walk down the street wearing a visible cross on your neck, in England, because it is "hateful" to anyone who is not a Christian.

[Roadtoad]

For one thing, I do not have any money to invest.
As for your previous post, I think you have me confused with someone else.
Talking about evil plans by people who think all humans other than themselves should be killed to "save the planet" does not automatically make me a pre-tribber. I am all for helping people and even if I do not have money I take in people who would otherwise be homeless, so it is not like I am making excuses to do nothing.

Ah, yes. The old "I can't do much, but I do what I can" line. Kathy likes to use that one herself.

You can mish-mash this whole thing as you like, mainly as a way of avoiding the points people are making regarding what you said, but it's an obvious smoke screen, and it won't get you anywhere.

[paximperium]

If you were around for when I was posting on the "uselessness of prayer" thread, you would realize I am not too worried about death. The internet as we know it will end soon enough. I am not going to speed up the end of freedom of speech by stopping myself.
Pretty soon you will be bio-scanned for your identity before you can put anything up on the internet. That, in itself will intimidate a lot of people for fear of the new internet hate speech bill. Right now, you can not walk down the street wearing a visible cross on your neck, because it is "hateful" to anyone who is not a Christian.
Hey, more irrelevant crap that has nothing to do with what people post. Please stop arguing with the voices in your head.
Which labs? CBC, ABC, 123, NIH, UChicago? Why no answer?

Sorry but your delusions are exceedingly boring. I've met some schizophrenics who makes more sense.

[Ethnikos]

Removed reference to modded post.

[Agatha]

Right now, you can not walk down the street wearing a visible cross on your neck, in England, because it is "hateful" to anyone who is not a Christian. Needless to say, this is untrue. There are no laws against wearing visible symbols of any faith in England or anywhere else in the UK. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post it.

[Roadtoad]

It is in the UN bio-diversity treaty. They say we should reinstitute human sacrifice as our new religion. Can you say, Apocalyto?

WTF!?!

Evidence? Please? (GeeMack, I think you were far too charitable.)

[paximperium]

It is in the UN bio-diversity treaty. They say we should reinstitute human sacrifice as our new religion. Can you say, Apocalyto?
Link to the treaty with this section you are claiming or are you making things up again?

[Roadtoad]

Needless to say, this is untrue. There are no laws against wearing visible symbols of any faith in England or anywhere else in the UK. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post it.

Oh, he doesn't have to post EVIDENCE! Why, that would demonstrate a lack of FAITH! :rolleyes:

Welcome, Agatha, BTW...

[Ethnikos]

Hey, more irrelevant crap that has nothing to do with what people post. Please stop arguing with the voices in your head.
Which labs? CBC, ABC, 123, NIH, UChicago? Why no answer?

Sorry but your delusions are exceedingly boring. I've met some schizophrenics who makes more sense.I will have to listen to the show archives and get the names. I will get back on here and let you know what I came up with, later.

[Agatha]

Here's the text of the UN biodiversity treaty: http://www.cbd.int/convention/convention.shtml It's long so I haven't gone through it all searching for human sacrifice yet. (!)

Thank you for the welcome, RT.

[Roadtoad]

Here's the text of the UN biodiversity treaty: http://www.cbd.int/convention/convention.shtml It's long so I haven't gone through it all searching for human sacrifice yet. (!)

Thank you for the welcome, RT.

Thanks, Agatha. I skimmed through some of it. I guess I missed the part about human sacrifice, too. Nothing about temple prostitutes, either, though, so it doesn't sound like much fun.

[Roadtoad]

Link to the treaty with this section you are claiming or are you making things up again?

He's making things up. Again.

Horse manure is great if you're making compost. Not so much for arguments.

[Geezer]

<snip> Right now, you can not walk down the street wearing a visible cross on your neck, in England, because it is "hateful" to anyone who is not a Christian.

Umm...do you even TRY to fact check before posting or is it against your religion?

Oh and no you are quite wrong btw.

[Ralph]

Should there be a hyphen between "bat" and "guano" in the expression "bat guano loony"?

[kurious_kathy]

If you were around for when I was posting on the "uselessness of prayer" thread, you would realize I am not too worried about death. The internet as we know it will end soon enough. I am not going to speed up the end of freedom of speech by stopping myself.
Pretty soon you will be bio-scanned for your identity before you can put anything up on the internet. That, in itself will intimidate a lot of people for fear of the new internet hate speech bill. Right now, you can not walk down the street wearing a visible cross on your neck, in England, because it is "hateful" to anyone who is not a Christian.

So if I go to England on vacation I am not allowed to where my Christian t-shirts (one says rapture ready" or christian jewelry designs? Are you allowed to go to church or carry a Bible??

[Ethnikos]

Umm...do you even TRY to fact check before posting or is it against your religion?

Oh and no you are quite wrong btw.
This might take a while. I have 120 hrs. worth of pod-casts to listen to.
Here is one thing to start. The guys at the Alex Jones show may have exaggerated slightly about what is not allowed. At work, they can stop you from wearing a cross, in the U.K.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5357247/Law-will-force-churches-to-employ-gay-staff.html

[Ladewig]

I will have to listen to the show archives and get the names. I will get back on here and let you know what I came up with, later.

Instead of looking up show archives, think for a moment what the world would be like if your story were true. You would have an evil cabal of men who wield untold power. They can order people to work on engineering the deadliest of diseases. They decide who can launch nukes and when. Their plan is to kill billions of people and change the very face of the world. Some two-bit radio host discovers their world-wide conspiracy and tries to expose it. Do they kill him in an "accident"? No. Do they kidnap him and torture him to discover how he found this secret plan? No. Do they just murder him and all who have helped him disseminate this information? No.

My question to you is "why not?"

Until you can provide a logical answer to that question, no one here is going to be interested in your conspiracy mongering.

[paximperium]

So if I go to England on vacation I am not allowed to where my Christian t-shirts (one says rapture ready" or christian jewelry designs? Are you allowed to go to church or carry a Bible??
That is completely true and there are goblins and pixies in England as well. If you rub the belly of Buddha near Liverpool, Jesus will give you a dragon.

[joobz]

Are you allowed to go to church or carry a Bible??
Only after your Sunday morning Sodomy.

[kurious_kathy]

Needless to say, this is untrue. There are no laws against wearing visible symbols of any faith in England or anywhere else in the UK. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post it.

Okay so what part of the UK do you live in and you say you see people wearing cross neckalces and hopefully t-shirts? It's known that the Muslims have succeeded in converting many old churches to mosques already and they won't stop until they try to take over the whole USA which unfortunately I myself see Obama helping them. Why can't people stop this? The fairness act is not fair at all as it serves the Muslim nations to try to shut up all Christians which just isn't fair. We have just as much right to stand up for our faith as anyone does.

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of Gods church and hope Jesus returns soon to fix this mess out. Face it people we need God to fix our world as he has promised to make everything new in a perfect new world with no more sin. I put my hope in him!

[joobz]

Okay so what part of the UK do you live in and you say you see people wearing cross neckalces and hopefully t-shirts?
KK, are you really suggesting christians have to wear cheesy, bad christian T-shirts to be good christians? Why do I think Jesus wouldn't approve of such behavior?

It's known that the Muslims have succeeded in converting many old churches to mosques already and they won't stop until they try to take over the whole USA which unfortunately I myself see Obama helping them.
I thought we were talking about Britian? Oh well, I guess you missed Obama's Speech in Egypt where he stated several times that he was a christian.... Or does he need to be wearing a christian T-shirt for it to be real?



P.S. I still believe in the rapture of Gods church and hope Jesus returns soon to fix this mess out.
So you are wishing upon the majority of people in this world horrible torture and death and torment, while you get wisked away to happyville?
WOW....

[tsig]

You obviously are not up to date on our nuclear policy. What kept us safe was what is called Launch on Warning. Our new policy is to launch after a first strike has ended. We have a nice little deal with the Russians that we keep half of our submarines in port at all times so they can take them all out with a first strike that we plan to absorb. Their words, not mine.
That is true. The only problem is there is a new religion which is really an old religion which is told in Daniel,"they worship a god of fortresses, which their fathers did not recognize." That was who he describes as bringing in the end of the world.
I was brought up on the idea that the world was going to end in our life time and I have always hated it. I wish it was not true but I see all the things happening in our face, that was foretold.
I do appreciate the world. I have kayaks and go out and enjoy things that are natural and beautiful. I used to spend a lot of time hiking in the mountains and being in nature. I love people and do not want bad things to happen to them. That is why I would take the trouble of warning them, so they can escape the calamities that are coming.

Like Jeremiah?

[GeeMack]

So if I go to England on vacation I am not allowed to where my Christian t-shirts (one says rapture ready" or christian jewelry designs? Are you allowed to go to church or carry a Bible??


Uh, kurious_kathy, he's lying. Get it? Lying. You know about lying Christians. You do plenty of it yourself.

I still believe in the rapture of Gods church and hope Jesus returns soon to fix this mess out. Face it people we need God to fix our world as he has promised to make everything new in a perfect new world with no more sin. I put my hope in him!


Yes, you are a nasty wicked sinner, kathy. I'm guessing you have dirty sex, steal from people, make babies cry, and of course you're a proven liar. You should feel guilty. You should feel like your world is crummy and you're a worthless sinner, a bad bad person. But please understand that your problems are your problems. It's pretty crappy of you to try to pass off the responsibility for that stuff onto everyone else.

We don't want to share the burden of your sinning. We didn't do it. And most of us don't feel like the world is such a crappy place that it needs the intervention of some invisible monster to fix it. What we do see as problems, most of us are willing to actively work to fix them, in contrast to your total lack of willingness to actually do anything besides pray and cower in fear. You and your tiny little fear based, guilt laden, judgemental life. Pitiful.

[Roadtoad]

This might take a while. I have 120 hrs. worth of pod-casts to listen to.
Here is one thing to start. The guys at the Alex Jones show may have exaggerated slightly about what is not allowed. At work, they can stop you from wearing a cross, in the U.K.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5357247/Law-will-force-churches-to-employ-gay-staff.html

Pod casts. You're basing your conclusions on pod casts.

Yeah, real critical thinking at work here, folks. :rolleyes:

If the extent of your knowledge of the world as it is is summarized in pod casts, which are not fact checked, which can be put out by ANYONE without any challenge to the "facts" presented, then I'd say you don't have much to offer.

Peace, out.

[Agatha]

So if I go to England on vacation I am not allowed to where my Christian t-shirts (one says rapture ready" or christian jewelry designs? Are you allowed to go to church or carry a Bible?? Here's a hint, Kathy; Ethnikos is wrong. People here are free to wear [note correct spelling] crosses, pentacles, Sikh bangles, and even daft T-shirts. Of course people are allowed to go to churches or other places of worship, and carry books should they choose. You don't really think a western democratic nation would ban such things, do you?

This might take a while. I have 120 hrs. worth of pod-casts to listen to.
Here is one thing to start. The guys at the Alex Jones show may have exaggerated slightly about what is not allowed. At work, they can stop you from wearing a cross, in the U.K.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5357247/Law-will-force-churches-to-employ-gay-staff.html The guys at the Alex Jones show are WRONG. I thought you might have been talking about the BA case. Here's what BA had to say: BA said in a statement: "British Airways has 34,000 uniformed staff, all of whom know they must abide by our uniform policy.

"The policy does not ban staff from wearing a cross. It lays down that personal items of jewellery, including crosses may be worn - but underneath the uniform. Other airlines have the same policy.

"The policy recognises that it is not practical for some religious symbols - such as turbans and hijabs - to be worn underneath the uniform. This is purely a question of practicality. There is no discrimination between faiths.

"In Nadia Eweida's case, she is not suspended and we want her to come back to work. We have explained to her the need to comply with the uniform policy like all her colleagues whatever their faith."

BA said Ms Eweida had been offered a non-uniformed post were she would be able to openly wear her cross but had refused to take it. From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6165368.stm She can wear her cross, but like every other uniformed staff member, she must comply with the uniform policy to which she agreed when she commenced employment.

Okay so what part of the UK do you live in and you say you see people wearing cross neckalces and hopefully t-shirts? I live in Derbyshire. I suppose some people wear cross necklaces, I don't really notice. I've never seen anyone wear a Rapture Ready T-shirt, they'd stand out like a sore thumb. The rapture stuff is something quite peculiar to bits of America as far as I can see. The UK isn't big on outward signs of faith, nor are we particularly religious as a country. It's known that the Muslims have succeeded in converting many old churches to mosques already and they won't stop until they try to take over the whole USA which unfortunately I myself see Obama helping them. Why can't people stop this? The fairness act is not fair at all as it serves the Muslim nations to try to shut up all Christians which just isn't fair. We have just as much right to stand up for our faith as anyone does. If nobody goes to a church and it gets closed, why shouldn't the building be utilised as a place where other people want to go? Churches being converted to mosques can only happen with the consent of the local planning authority, and locals have the right to express their views on the proposal.

I don't know what you mean by 'the fairness act'; I googled but couldn't find anything that might be relevant to your complaint there.

Nobody's stopping you stand up for your delusions, and in return I don't see you have any right to stop anyone else standing up for their delusions. All you are doing is arguing over different versions of the same fairy tale, after all.

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of Gods church and hope Jesus returns soon to fix this mess out. Face it people we need God to fix our world as he has promised to make everything new in a perfect new world with no more sin. I put my hope in him! Maybe your belief helps you survive a world which you seem to see as hate-filled and scary. I hope one day you see it for the fictional nonsense it is, and find yourself in the real world.

[Roadtoad]

Uh, kurious_kathy, he's lying. Get it? Lying. You know about lying Christians. You do plenty of it yourself.




Yes, you are a nasty wicked sinner, kathy. I'm guessing you have dirty sex, steal from people, make babies cry, and of course you're a proven liar. You should feel guilty. You should feel like your world is crummy and you're a worthless sinner, a bad bad person. But please understand that your problems are your problems. It's pretty crappy of you to try to pass off the responsibility for that stuff onto everyone else.

We don't want to share the burden of your sinning. We didn't do it. And most of us don't feel like the world is such a crappy place that it needs the intervention of some invisible monster to fix it. What we do see as problems, most of us are willing to actively work to fix them, in contrast to your total lack of willingness to actually do anything besides pray and cower in fear. You and your tiny little fear based, guilt laden, judgemental life. Pitiful.

Nominated.

[Roadtoad]

Okay so what part of the UK do you live in and you say you see people wearing cross neckalces and hopefully t-shirts? It's known that the Muslims have succeeded in converting many old churches to mosques already and they won't stop until they try to take over the whole USA which unfortunately I myself see Obama helping them. Why can't people stop this? The fairness act is not fair at all as it serves the Muslim nations to try to shut up all Christians which just isn't fair. We have just as much right to stand up for our faith as anyone does.

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of Gods church and hope Jesus returns soon to fix this mess out. Face it people we need God to fix our world as he has promised to make everything new in a perfect new world with no more sin. I put my hope in him!

Yeah. Good luck with that.

Most of us recognize that god isn't going to help us out of this mess. We need to accept responsibility for ourselves and take action on our own.

[CrikeyBobs]

Okay so what part of the UK do you live in and you say you see people wearing cross neckalces and hopefully t-shirts?
Agatha never said she had seen people, only that there is no law against it. Necklaces are generally quite discreet items of jewellery and probably wouldn't be even noticed at a casual glance. Of course, in some religions, expression of belief is more obvious (turban, hijab). A t-shirt emblazoned with "I [heart] Jesus" might get you a few odd looks, but it's not really traditional Christian attire. IMO, the schism that appears to exist between Christianity and secularity in the US doesn't exist here to anywhere near the same extent.

It's known that the Muslims have succeeded in converting many old churches to mosques already
What has this sentence to do with the previous one? And if the premises are not being used, what's the big deal? Sometimes it's a mosque, or maybe it's an apartment building, or perhaps a supermarket.


and they won't stop until they try to take over the whole USA which unfortunately I myself see Obama helping them.

That comes across as rather paranoid.

[Ethnikos]

Until you can provide a logical answer to that question, no one here is going to be interested in your conspiracy mongering.If that was my goal, I should have posted on the conspiracy thread, or wherever that sort of thing goes. I was really interested in explaining why a rapture would be necessary. The thing is, it does not reach full completion. God stops it before everyone is dead. That is the Point.
What I plan to do with info I get on the radio is to not take vaccinations. You can if you want, and while you are at it, drink some fluoride water and aspartame and eat some GMO food and take Prozac and give your kids Ritalin. Watch TV a few hours a day and hold a cell phone to your head most of the day. Why not? The government loves you. They would never let you drink high fructose corn syrup cut with mercury and preserved with sodium benzoate that turns into benzine and gives you cancer.

[Geezer]

This might take a while. I have 120 hrs. worth of pod-casts to listen to.
Here is one thing to start. The guys at the Alex Jones show may have exaggerated slightly about what is not allowed. At work, they can stop you from wearing a cross, in the U.K.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5357247/Law-will-force-churches-to-employ-gay-staff.html
Pretty sure that employers in general in most countries can dictate a dresscode for their employees.

[joobz]

That comes across as rather paranoid.
Well, She has reason to be. The US led mark of the beast program has been highly successful. All that was needed was to convince fundies that a clearly overlayed 3 sixes placed on the side is actually a "Jesus fish".

[Ladewig]

drink some fluoride water and aspartame and eat some GMO food and take Prozac and give your kids Ritalin. Watch TV a few hours a day and hold a cell phone to your head most of the day. Why not? The government loves you. They would never let you drink high fructose corn syrup cut with mercury and preserved with sodium benzoate that turns into benzine and gives you cancer.

*snicker*

I think I am going to have to agree with Moochie: some legs are getting pulled.

[Agatha]

Pretty sure that employers in general in most countries can dictate a dresscode for their employees. Indeed, Geezer, as I showed above. But Ethnikos doesn't seem to want to let facts stand in the way of his/her paranoid ravings.

[Elizabeth I]

Oh, well, welcome, Agatha.

It's nice that we got a new sane person to offset the new nutjob.

[Ethnikos]

Like Jeremiah?

Dr. Deagle is the prophet.
I do spend a lot of time on forums writing on Cristian subjects, though.
I normally do not get into the political aspects of it other than to say the worst thing is for the church to be given political power.
That is the Beast and all that.
I normally never get into the actual events that lead up to the end, at least the part that the evil powers do, other than to point out that they are evil.
The important thing is to understand what the gospel is, and that the Beast and Babylon is not going to give it to you. That is why you have to go back to people like Martin Luther and the idea of the priesthood of all believers.

[Geezer]

Indeed, Geezer, as I showed above. But Ethnikos doesn't seem to want to let facts stand in the way of his/her paranoid ravings.
"Phfft! Facts. You can use them to prove anything." Homer J Simpson

[Sun Countess]

I still believe in the rapture of Gods church and hope Jesus returns soon to fix this mess out. Face it people we need God to fix our world as he has promised to make everything new in a perfect new world with no more sin. I put my hope in him!
Why would you put your hope in god making the world perfect? Hasn't he had a few thousand years to make it perfect? He certainly didn't make it perfect at the start, what with putting that tree right where he knew Adam and Eve would want to eat from it. Their perfect eden lasted all of what - a couple of days?

Then things got really nasty so he got rid of all the imperfect people with a flood, and somehow things still didn't work out that well. So he turned himself into his own son by date-raping some virgin girl, just so he could kinda sorta make things perfect, just not on the first coming, but on his second coming, which is the one his believers have been waiting for about 2000 years now.

If he really wanted to make things perfect, he should have done so by now, or he's a piss-poor excuse of an omnipotent being and should be fired for gross incompetence. Unless......he's just a figment of people's imaginations, like every other god throughout all of history.

Impotent.

[Paulhoff]

and while you are at it, drink some fluoride water and aspartame and eat some GMO food and take Prozac and give your kids Ritalin. Watch TV a few hours a day and hold a cell phone to your head most of the day. Why not? The government loves you. They would never let you drink high fructose corn syrup cut with mercury and preserved with sodium benzoate that turns into benzine and gives you cancer.
All so-called god made things.

Paul

:) :) :)

As Ethnikos sits in front of his computer screen, well thats OK, his is doing so-called god's work.

[Nogbad]

Right now, you can not walk down the street wearing a visible cross on your neck, in England, because it is "hateful" to anyone who is not a Christian.

I can confirm that this is not the case. You can wear any religious symbol you like.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/07/Blackadder_II_-_Beer.jpg

There are rules about wearing religious symbols to school; veils, crosses etc. Some businesses prefer those dealing with the public to not push their particular poison too. However, in your own time you can wear as many crosses as you like.

The UK is largely a secular place and most people are not that interested in having another person's religious beliefs thrust upon them. Wearing a rapture ready T-Shirt is not a bad idea though. It gives people fair warning not to mention religion.

[tsig]

Dr. Deagle is the prophet.
I do spend a lot of time on forums writing on Cristian subjects, though.
I normally do not get into the political aspects of it other than to say the worst thing is for the church to be given political power.
That is the Beast and all that.
I normally never get into the actual events that lead up to the end, at least the part that the evil powers do, other than to point out that they are evil.
The important thing is to understand what the gospel is, and that the Beast and Babylon is not going to give it to you. That is why you have to go back to people like Martin Luther and the idea of the priesthood of all believers.

So now we have prophets and priests.

What is the prophet's function?

If everyone is a priest doesn't that remove any meaning from the term?

[Foster Zygote]

There are a few definitions for the Greek word translated as virgin.
The number two definition has to do with becoming ceremonially defiled, as in engaging the temple whores of the pagans.

The only other translation of "παρθενοι" I've found is "olive". Could you please link or refer to a scholarly source that lists the other definitions?

[Achán hiNidráne]

It is allowed to go on to the point that God can judge them. It has to progress pretty far because it is the final judgment, with no do overs.

So, your good is will to allow evil continue so he can make so some mass judgment?

So, your god is capable, but unwilling. Ergo, the Christian god is evil.

Christianity is evil.

You, as a Christian, are evil.

I've got nothing else to say to you.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Nothing about temple prostitutes, either, though, so it doesn't sound like much fun.

Mmmmmmm.... Temple Prostitutes. THAT'S the sort religion this atheist can endorse. :D

[Roadtoad]

Dr. Deagle is the prophet.
I do spend a lot of time on forums writing on Cristian subjects, though.
I normally do not get into the political aspects of it other than to say the worst thing is for the church to be given political power.
That is the Beast and all that.
I normally never get into the actual events that lead up to the end, at least the part that the evil powers do, other than to point out that they are evil.
The important thing is to understand what the gospel is, and that the Beast and Babylon is not going to give it to you. That is why you have to go back to people like Martin Luther and the idea of the priesthood of all believers.

Dr. Deagle? As in the nutriquack? As in Mr.-Photographic-Memory-There-Isn't-A-Conspiracy-I-Haven't-Information-About? THAT Dr. Deagle?

Okay. That's it. You're whacked. Have a nice life.

[joobz]

Mmmmmmm.... Temple Prostitutes. THAT'S the sort religion this atheist can endorse. :D
I prefer Temple Free-spirits.
Prostitutes imply that
1.) You must pay
2.) they may/may not do it willingly.

Temply Free-spirit, on the other hand.
1.) Empowered woman, who does what she likes.
2.) No expectation of money exchanging hands.

[Lucian]

So if I go to England on vacation I am not allowed to where my Christian t-shirts (one says rapture ready" or christian jewelry designs? Are you allowed to go to church or carry a Bible??

It's absolutely true. The poor Archbishop of Canterbury can't poke his nose out of doors without being hauled off in cuffs. It's completely untrue that he has a cross on his website (http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/). Also, he's no longer allowed to enter Canterbury Cathedral, or, as I believe it is now called, Canterbury Mosque.

It's totally true--I heard it on a podcast.

[Ethnikos]

So now we have prophets and priests.
What is the prophet's function?
If everyone is a priest doesn't that remove any meaning from the term?
Everyone can be a prophet, at least for yourself.(with some qualifications)
You do not have to go to someone else to find out some sort of message from God about something personal.
There are prophets that have things to say, for example, to the country, as a whole. So, every once in a while,(not every day) on his show, Dr, Deagle will say something like, "in my capacity of prophet I have something to say about that." while discussing an important subject with a guest. It will be something that he feels people need to pay close attention to.
He may have a higher degree of responsibility to his listeners, because of the position he is in, so he uses it to keep people focused and not distracted by things that are not productive. It seems to me to be an expression of his concern for people, more than anything else.
As for the priest thing, if everyone being their own priest destroyed the normal meaning of the word, that may be a good thing. The version we have does not have any relevance with Christianity, as far as I can tell. It was something introduced after the fact and was never introduced by Jesus or the Apostles. We have a responsibility to insure proper observance of religious things in our own family and for ourselves. Above us, we have Jesus, who is our high priest standing before God as our representative. We do not need someone standing before us representing God.

[Ethnikos]

The only other translation of "παρθενοι" I've found is "olive". Could you please link or refer to a scholarly source that lists the other definitions?
This is the one I was looking at, from NetBible:
parthenos <3933>1) a virgin 1a) a marriageable maiden 1b) a woman who has never had sexual intercourse with a man 1c) one's marriageable daughter 2) a man who has abstained from all uncleanness and whoredom attendant on idolatry, and so has kept his chastity 2a) one who has never had intercourse with women
That particular form of the word used in Rev. 14:4 is used three other times in the New Testament and is referring to maidens, which seems odd.
From the John Gill commentary:. . .her harlots, she is the mother of; while the kings and inhabitants of the earth were drunk with the wine of their fornication, or committed idolatry with them, which is spiritual fornication, and is here meant by being defiled with them, these were free from such pollutions, or idolatrous practices:
This is one of these things in Revelation that is not to be taken in a strictly literal way. It tells a story but it uses comparisons with known concepts to make a point.

[Ethnikos]

I can confirm that this is not the case. You can wear any religious symbol you like.

There are rules about wearing religious symbols to school; veils, crosses etc. Some businesses prefer those dealing with the public to not push their particular poison too. However, in your own time you can wear as many crosses as you like.

The UK is largely a secular place and most people are not that interested in having another person's religious beliefs thrust upon them. Wearing a rapture ready T-Shirt is not a bad idea though. It gives people fair warning not to mention religion.
From doing a few google searches, it seems that there are restrictions, mainly to do with flags and banners and t-shirts. It has to do with ordinances about particular things like taxi cabs that are highly regulated. Certain public buildings that may or may not fly a St, George's flag. Schools that are prone to any sort of arbitrary rules. Banners displayed at soccer matches. Workers in sensitive safety situations. Parades that may or not get a permit to go on, if they are flying the English flag. Naval vessels that are in foreign waters owned by Muslim countries. Flags being flown in government housing. I did not find evidence of people just walking along minding their own business being detained.
I went back and found where these talk show host said it on the radio, in the archives. So Jones and Deagle need to back up their claims with some specifics. Not the first time I got burned by Mr. Jones.

[Ethnikos]

All so-called god made things.

Paul

:) :) :)

As Ethnikos sits in front of his computer screen, well thats OK, his is doing so-called god's work.I was being sarcastic.
I was pointing out all the wonderful things that are approved for us that are deadly poisons, some faster acting than others. Except for the TV, that is what you watch to make you think everything is OK.
Zyprexa is a fun one that a friend of mine is on that can cause you to murder people, like Harris and Klebold. They did the testing for it on Baffin Island with Eskimos so they could hide the fact that they were off-ing themselves or their family members.

[slingblade]

It's known that the Muslims have succeeded in converting many old churches to mosques already and they won't stop until they try to take over the whole USA which unfortunately I myself see Obama helping them.

Yes. Most of the U.S. says it believes in a god or higher being, and most of them say it's the Christian god. That means many of your buddies in the Jesus Club voted for Obama.

Oh my gosh, you didn't know that? You didn't know that millions of christians voted for the man? Oh wow. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to break it to you like that.

Why can't people stop this?

Same reason we can't stop you, honey. It's called freedom. And like it or not, we all get some. I don't like you, you don't like them, and they don't like either one of us, but we all have to live together. Isn't freedom wonderful?

The fairness act is not fair at all as it serves the Muslim nations to try to shut up all Christians

Please tell me how they're doing that, please! I need to know how!

which just isn't fair.

No? It's not fair that someone else gets to have the same religious freedoms you have? That's not fair? Okay, we can take away his religious freedom...but we're going to have to take yours, too. But that's okay with you, right? You won't mind giving up your freedom to worship and to speak and to come here and preach to the atheists, will you Kathy, as long as we take the evil Muslim's religious freedom away too, right?


We have just as much right to stand up for our faith as anyone does.

So do they, honey. You do realize that by calling for someone to "stop the muslims," you are doing exactly the same thing to them that you're ranting about them doing to you, right? You do understand that much, don't you Kathy? Kathy?

[Nogbad]

From doing a few google searches, it seems that there are restrictions, mainly to do with flags and banners and t-shirts. It has to do with ordinances about particular things like taxi cabs that are highly regulated. Certain public buildings that may or may not fly a St, George's flag. Schools that are prone to any sort of arbitrary rules. Banners displayed at soccer matches. Workers in sensitive safety situations. Parades that may or not get a permit to go on, if they are flying the English flag. Naval vessels that are in foreign waters owned by Muslim countries. Flags being flown in government housing. I did not find evidence of people just walking along minding their own business being detained.
I went back and found where these talk show host said it on the radio, in the archives. So Jones and Deagle need to back up their claims with some specifics. Not the first time I got burned by Mr. Jones.

Mr Jones (I have that song in my head now) is a bit strange.

You are right about there being an issue with the English flag as it was co-opted by the neo-Nazis and developed some unpleasant nuances. This has diminished somewhat in recent years as ordinary people (especially sports fans) have reclaimed it. In Scotland the national flag can be seen all over the place. We had a problem with sectarian issues with IRA and Red Hand of Ulster flags flown at football matches. It is a shame that things have to be banned but the accompanying violence was unacceptable. None of this has anything to do with Muslims though.

I am fairly sure one might run into trouble if one wore a T Shirt likely to cause offence. For example "Mohammed does it with Pigs" or "Jesus likes little Boys" or more likely in my neck of the woods "**** the Pope". If a complaint was received a police officer would most likely request the offending item covered. I don't think this happens very often.

What we have had is enthusiastic local officials banning silly things like Christmas tree lights (renamed winter festival lights etc) only for local Muslims to say "I wish people wouldn't do this, we don't mind Christmas and the lights look nice - and all that happens is we get the blame for something we never asked for". I think you have had similar silliness in the States.

[Paulhoff]

Except for the TV, that is what you watch to make you think everything is OK.
Not the shows I watch, Educational ones, but not religious dogma.

Paul

:) :) :)

[Elizabeth I]

I went back and found where these talk show host said it on the radio, in the archives. So Jones and Deagle need to back up their claims with some specifics. Not the first time I got burned by Mr. Jones.

...and yet you still haven't learned to walk right by the other b.s.

[Roadtoad]

Not the shows I watch, Educational ones, but not religious dogma.

Paul

:) :) :)

You and I know the religious dogma BS is just that. BS. It's too bad that Kathy and crew can't figure out that's what they're being fed, and it ain't even good enough for compost.

[GeeMack]

Why can't people stop this? The fairness act is not fair at all as it serves the Muslim nations to try to shut up all Christians which just isn't fair.


Uh, kurious_kathy, you seem to have misunderstood the situation. It's not just Muslims telling someone to shut up, and it's not all Christians they're saying it to. If you listen carefully, kathy, you'll notice there are people of every persuasion telling you to shut up. You might ask yourself why this would be. And let me give you a hint. It ain't religious persecution. ;)

[Paulhoff]

Lots of good eduction out there, if you know where to look. But first, please get your head out.

WSzQC1zKesU

Paul

:) :) :)

[Ethnikos]

...and yet you still haven't learned to walk right by the other b.s.

That was one of the things easier to check.
The other stuff is a little more time consuming to get a real handle on.
The thing is I have been listening to conspiracy radio since 1975, when I was listening to Hilly Rose.
When JFK jr's plane went down, he was sub-ing for Art Bell who was vacationing in his RV. Rose started taking calls from fishermen who said they saw four planes converge on John's plane and force it down.
All of a sudden, Art was on the radio and we never heard from old Hilly again on Coast to Coast.(just an example of what Rose would allow, that even Art Bell would never allow)
So, I have a pretty big backlog in my mind of every kind of conspiracy and when I listened to Deagle, it resonated with me. He is real big on stuff like the ashes of the red heifer were hidden in caves of Qumran and the Israelis have them and the temple is being rebuilt. I am interested in that sort of thing but it is almost useless listening to it because I do not see any hard evidence.
I was listening to the pod-cast of when he says, "Wear a cross in the UK and get fined, or worse". He was supposed to cut over to a radio broadcaster in the UK, and mysteriously it cuts over to the earlier guest. Hmm. something odd here. Some sort of manipulation with the files?

[Moochie]

Okay so what part of the UK do you live in and you say you see people wearing cross neckalces and hopefully t-shirts? It's known that the Muslims have succeeded in converting many old churches to mosques already and they won't stop until they try to take over the whole USA which unfortunately I myself see Obama helping them.

Can you point to any evidence for such outrageous claims? I'll bet you can't.

Why can't people stop this?

Why should they? Is it because you think your brand of lunacy is somehow better than theirs? Note I said "lunacy," because the things you've been saying in this forum have little, if anything, to do with Christianity or Christendom.

The fairness act is not fair at all as it serves the Muslim nations to try to shut up all Christians which just isn't fair. We have just as much right to stand up for our faith as anyone does.

Again, I must insist that you provide some evidence for these ridiculous assertions. I'll bet you can't.

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of Gods church and hope Jesus returns soon to fix this mess out. Face it people we need God to fix our world as he has promised to make everything new in a perfect new world with no more sin. I put my hope in him!

Whatever you believe is really quite besides the point. One would hope that if there is a God, he/she would be merciful enough to come to this place and fix you.


M.

[Paulhoff]

http://media.fukung.net/images/8792/oneways.jpg

There is only One Way.....................

Paul

:) :) :)

[Elizabeth I]

The thing is I have been listening to conspiracy radio since 1975...

OK, all is explained. Move along, folks, nothing more to see here...

[The Man]

I can confirm that this is not the case. You can wear any religious symbol you like.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/07/Blackadder_II_-_Beer.jpg

There are rules about wearing religious symbols to school; veils, crosses etc. Some businesses prefer those dealing with the public to not push their particular poison too. However, in your own time you can wear as many crosses as you like.

The UK is largely a secular place and most people are not that interested in having another person's religious beliefs thrust upon them. Wearing a rapture ready T-Shirt is not a bad idea though. It gives people fair warning not to mention religion.

Say was that still from the old series “The Black Adder” with Rowan Atkinson?

Ok now that I see the URL it’s from “Blackadder II”, never mind.

[joobz]

Can you point to any evidence for such outrageous claims? I'll bet you can't.
given her history of unsupported arguments, that's a safe bet.
It's funny how quickly KK is willing to believe the most ludicrous horrible things...provided it's pro-christian.

[Foster Zygote]

This is the one I was looking at, from NetBible:
parthenos <3933>1) a virgin 1a) a marriageable maiden 1b) a woman who has never had sexual intercourse with a man 1c) one's marriageable daughter 2) a man who has abstained from all uncleanness and whoredom attendant on idolatry, and so has kept his chastity 2a) one who has never had intercourse with women
That particular form of the word used in Rev. 14:4 is used three other times in the New Testament and is referring to maidens, which seems odd.
So you have merely chosen the definition that you find to be most convenient. But in Revelation 14:4 we find the Greek word "γυναικων", "women" in English. There is no mention of prostitutes, temples, pagans or anything to suggest that your interpretation is more justified than the interpretation that they were literally virgins who had never had sex with any woman.

This is one of these things in Revelation that is not to be taken in a strictly literal way. It tells a story but it uses comparisons with known concepts to make a point.
What is or is not to be taken literally regarding the Bible seems to be an entirely subjective matter dependent on the desires of the reader.

[Ethnikos]

So you have merely chosen the definition that you find to be most convenient. But in Revelation 14:4 we find the Greek word "γυναικων", "women" in English. There is no mention of prostitutes, temples, pagans or anything to suggest that your interpretation is more justified than the interpretation that they were literally virgins who had never had sex with any woman.
Right. I pick out the one that seems to go along with the general theme.
It is talking about world powers that shove a false religion down everyone's throat, that acknowledging will send you to Hell. On the other-hand, you have those who go to heaven, who did not defile themselves with the false religion.

What is or is not to be taken literally regarding the Bible seems to be an entirely subjective matter dependent on the desires of the reader.
I would invite you to write a commentary on the Book of Revelation, based on a more rational approach. I would be happy to read it when you have it complete. I am working on my own version of a commentary.

[MIKILLINI]

So if I go to England on vacation I am not allowed to where my Christian t-shirts (one says rapture ready" or christian jewelry designs? Are you allowed to go to church or carry a Bible??

You'd believe anything that someone mentions as anti-christian without checking sources or even look for facts to see whether or not it's true.
How about asking someone who lives in the UK? Read Agatha's post #847 to find out.

This is typical of end day believers like you Kathy; All you do is hear it once and then believe it. How gullible can one be?

[Nogbad]

That was one of the things easier to check.
The other stuff is a little more time consuming to get a real handle on.
The thing is I have been listening to conspiracy radio since 1975, when I was listening to Hilly Rose.
When JFK jr's plane went down, he was sub-ing for Art Bell who was vacationing in his RV. Rose started taking calls from fishermen who said they saw four planes converge on John's plane and force it down.
All of a sudden, Art was on the radio and we never heard from old Hilly again on Coast to Coast.(just an example of what Rose would allow, that even Art Bell would never allow)
So, I have a pretty big backlog in my mind of every kind of conspiracy and when I listened to Deagle, it resonated with me. He is real big on stuff like the ashes of the red heifer were hidden in caves of Qumran and the Israelis have them and the temple is being rebuilt. I am interested in that sort of thing but it is almost useless listening to it because I do not see any hard evidence.
I was listening to the pod-cast of when he says, "Wear a cross in the UK and get fined, or worse". He was supposed to cut over to a radio broadcaster in the UK, and mysteriously it cuts over to the earlier guest. Hmm. something odd here. Some sort of manipulation with the files?

Bizarre thing is that I was walking up Sauchiehall Street in Glasgow not so long ago and there were a couple of young Merkins, one standing on a box waving his Bible about and giving it John 3:16 for all he was worth. We poor natives hurried by lest he try to engage us in conversation but no one was arresting him. We have Mormons knocking at the door, Jovial Witnesses likewise. (everybody switching the lights off and pretending to be out) I can't understand why he would say such a thing.

[kurious_kathy]

You'd believe anything that someone mentions as anti-christian without checking sources or even look for facts to see whether or not it's true.
How about asking someone who lives in the UK? Read Agatha's post #847 to find out.

This is typical of end day believers like you Kathy; All you do is hear it once and then believe it. How gullible can one be?

Oh so were the Egyptians just being gullible when Obama gave his speech there or did he really mean it? I am not kidding when I say I think he's an undercover Muslim but if not he tells everyone what they want to hear just to gain their support. I'm sorry but we need to wake up in the US and realize this hidden agenda of the Muslim nations is no laughing matter.

As for what I believe, everything going on in the UK is also going on everywhere in the whole world, we are all truly in a spiritual battle. Tell me when you die where would you prefer to be in the smoking or non-smoking section?

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of the church, but if I die before that happens I would prefer to end up in the non smoking section for all of eternity!

[Lord Emsworth]

Tell me when you die where would you prefer to be in the smoking or non-smoking section?

Which is which? And would it not be a good idea to weed out the most obvious bunk?

[slingblade]

Oh so were the Egyptians just being gullible when Obama gave his speech there or did he really mean it?

Did he really mean what, exactly?


I am not kidding when I say I think he's an undercover Muslim

And we accept your opinion on that with the same gravitas we bestow on all your other opinions.


but if not he tells everyone what they want to hear just to gain their support.

POLITICIAN, kathy, hello? Hello?

I'm sorry but we need to wake up in the US and realize this hidden agenda of the Muslim nations is no laughing matter.

If it's hidden, then how do you know about it?

Are you a hidden Muslim, too? :jaw-dropp

As for what I believe, everything going on in the UK is also going on everywhere in the whole world, we are all truly in a spiritual battle. Tell me when you die where would you prefer to be in the smoking or non-smoking section?

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of the church, but if I die before that happens I would prefer to end up in the non smoking section for all of eternity!

:bunpan

[Mashuna]

As for what I believe, everything going on in the UK is also going on everywhere in the whole world, we are all truly in a spiritual battle.

You mean, that stuff you claimed was happening in the UK, and were subsequently shown to be wrong about?

I know you're good at this whole 'faith in the face of contradictory evidence' thing, but I didn't realise that you applied it across your whole life.

[Wally]

Oh so were the Egyptians just being gullible when Obama gave his speech there or did he really mean it? I am not kidding when I say I think he's an undercover Muslim but if not he tells everyone what they want to hear just to gain their support. I'm sorry but we need to wake up in the US and realize this hidden agenda of the Muslim nations is no laughing matter.

As for what I believe, everything going on in the UK is also going on everywhere in the whole world, we are all truly in a spiritual battle. Tell me when you die where would you prefer to be in the smoking or non-smoking section?

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of the church, but if I die before that happens I would prefer to end up in the non smoking section for all of eternity!


Come on, admit it, you're Sarah Palin aren't you.:D

[joobz]

Oh so were the Egyptians just being gullible when Obama gave his speech there or did he really mean it?
WHen he said he was a christian? What are you going on about???

I am not kidding when I say I think he's an undercover Muslim but if not he tells everyone what they want to hear just to gain their support.
I know you're not kidding. But that doesn't make the statement any less stupid.

I'm sorry but we need to wake up in the US and realize this hidden agenda of the Muslim nations is no laughing matter.
Certainly the push to theocracy is a major concern for any nation. Religious fundemendalism uses power to limit liberty and freedom. Right now, the US is much more threatened by christian fundies than Muslim fundies. but, we must protect ourselves against both.

As for what I believe, everything going on in the UK is also going on everywhere in the whole world, we are all truly in a spiritual battle. Tell me when you die where would you prefer to be in the smoking or non-smoking section?
I do not beleive you really know anything about current world events. Explain "what is going on" in England with evidence. You have a habit of making claims that are false.

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of the church, but if I die before that happens I would prefer to end up in the non smoking section for all of eternity!
again, I know you believe it. But that doesn't make the statement any less stupid.

[Flo]

Tell me when you die where would you prefer to be in the smoking or non-smoking section?

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of the church, but if I die before that happens I would prefer to end up in the non smoking section for all of eternity!


Reminds me of

A gangster, a truly horrible man, gets killed in a fight. He arrives at the Pearly Gates, the angel on duty looks at his records and tells him "OK, you're robbed, killed, sold drugs, etc., you're going to hell without a doubt. However, it says here that you never robbed poor helpless people, you gave to charity for your victim's orphans, you were good to animals, so you deserve a little favor. You can choose to go either to the German or French hell".

So the gangster asks about the German hell and is told that you spend all your time in a vat full of ****, and get beaten with a wooden stick every evening. So he enquires about the French hell, and is told that it's the same.

Of course, he complains about the actual lack of a real choice, and the angel tells him: "if I were you, I'd pick the French hell. You know the French, one day they will have lost the stick, the next day they will forget to deliver the ****, and the third day they will be on strike...".

[Foster Zygote]

Oh so were the Egyptians just being gullible when Obama gave his speech there or did he really mean it?
Did he really mean what? Did you listen to the speech? Can you tell us what part of the speech specifically concerns you?

I am not kidding when I say I think he's an undercover Muslim but if not he tells everyone what they want to hear just to gain their support.
What does he have to say to gain your support? Does he have to call for a new Crusade to "exterminate the infidels"? Does he have to pass "anti-infidel" laws to prohibit the practice of Islam and all other non evangelical Christian practices? Does he have to call for legislation to round up and detain all Muslims in the United States in case some of them might be religious militants?

I'm sorry but we need to wake up in the US and realize this hidden agenda of the Muslim nations is no laughing matter.
If you mean that most Muslims probably imagine a perfect world as one in which everyone is Muslim then I fail to see how that is supposed to be "hidden". And how is it any different from the fact that most Christians imagine a perfect world as one in which everyone converts to Christianity?

As for what I believe, everything going on in the UK is also going on everywhere in the whole world, we are all truly in a spiritual battle.
Kathy, please give some indication that you have read other posts in this thread and are actually aware that the claims passed on by Ethnikos regarding the prohibitions on personal displays of religion in Britain are complete and utter crap.

Tell me when you die where would you prefer to be in the smoking or non-smoking section?
Actually, I'd like to go to the Big Rock Candy Mountain.

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of the church, but if I die before that happens I would prefer to end up in the non smoking section for all of eternity!
So, Isn't all this, in your mind, a part of God's great plan? Why are you so concerned with the "hidden agenda" of the Muslim people if you think that this has all been preordained by God according to his perfect plan?

[Ladewig]

Oh so were the Egyptians just being gullible when Obama gave his speech there or did he really mean it? I am not kidding when I say I think he's an undercover Muslim but if not he tells everyone what they want to hear just to gain their support. I'm sorry but we need to wake up in the US and realize this hidden agenda of the Muslim nations is no laughing matter.

As for what I believe, everything going on in the UK is also going on everywhere in the whole world, we are all truly in a spiritual battle. Tell me when you die where would you prefer to be in the smoking or non-smoking section?

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of the church, but if I die before that happens I would prefer to end up in the non smoking section for all of eternity!

What a strange way to try to convert people to Christianity. Virtually every post you have made focuses on how frightened we should be. Be afraid because Obama is a Muslim. Be afraid because Obama may be the anti-Christ. Be afraid because the Rapture is minutes away. Be afraid because because hell is so awful. Be afraid because God will send natural disasters (hurricanes and wildfires) to punish America for tolerating homosexuality. Be afraid because the tiniest of sins will send you to hell forever.

You don't have to live that way KK. Stay and open your mind.

[Roadtoad]

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of the church, but if I die before that happens I would prefer to end up in the non smoking section for all of eternity!

I'll take smoking. If there's a Heaven, I want to be able to enjoy my Cohibas.

[Ashles]

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of the church, but if I die before that happens I would prefer to end up in the non smoking section for all of eternity!


Well the amount of hatred and fear you preach is not going to endear you to the Guy who makes that decision.
Wouldn't it be ironic if there is an afterlife and, due to how judgemental, fearmongering and divisive your views are (in contrast to, for example, the understanding and love the Bible is supposed to actually be encouraging), you actually end up in the... "smoking section"?

Maybe there are a lot of people who smugly believe themselves to be 'preaching the word of God' and destined for Heaven who are actually headed to a completely other place.

And maybe the last words they hear before the eternal fires of Hell sear their ears shut will be
"Boy did you guys miss my point..."

[Monster Machine]

Oh so were the Egyptians just being gullible when Obama gave his speech there or did he really mean it? I am not kidding when I say I think he's an undercover Muslim but if not he tells everyone what they want to hear just to gain their support. I'm sorry but we need to wake up in the US and realize this hidden agenda of the Muslim nations is no laughing matter.

Kathy, this is the most ignorant and racist statement I think you have ever made (and you have made a LOT of them)

Can you please explain to me how mainstream Islam is different from mainstream Christianity? MAINSTREAM. Do you really think moderate Muslims (the majority) are a group of blood drinking, rape-pillage-and-torture demons?

Who the hell cares in Obama is an undercover Muslim or not? Why does it matter to you as an individual? Are you so insecure in your faith in God that if he WERE an undercover muslim, your god would somehow be diminished in your eyes?

Grow up Kathy, and please, try to understand this:

THERE IS AN ENTIRE WORLD OF DIFFERING OPINION OUTSIDE YOUR LITTLE NICHE!

Not everyone believes in God, not everyone believes in Allah, and not everyone believes in your rapture. When you cram your beliefs down others throats without being able to support them with evidence, but rather choose feable fear mongering type tactics, you're embarrassing yourself and your religion (or relationship, or whatever you have).

Monster

[Trantor]

Ah, I do love reading KK and Doc threads when I visit this site. Like seeing a bad accident on the road; it's hard not to look.

Kathy, if I was a betting man, my bet would be on Obama being a closet Agnostic, rather than a Christian or Muslim. In my opinion, I don't think that he's very religious, but maybe I'm wrong. I know he says that he's a Christian, but in this country, that is needed in order to get elected.

Of course, Obama as a possible Agnostic or Atheist, would be even worse than Obama the closet Muslim to you Christian Fundies. Truly, the End Times are upon us.:D

[Foster Zygote]

I'll take smoking. If there's a Heaven, I want to be able to enjoy my Cohibas.

We'll smoke some cigars with Sam Clemens.

[Foster Zygote]

Kathy, this is the most ignorant and racist statement I think you have ever made (and you have made a LOT of them)

Can you please explain to me how mainstream Islam is different from mainstream Christianity? MAINSTREAM. Do you really think moderate Muslims (the majority) are a group of blood drinking, rape-pillage-and-torture demons?

Who the hell cares in Obama is an undercover Muslim or not? Why does it matter to you as an individual? Are you so insecure in your faith in God that if he WERE an undercover muslim, your god would somehow be diminished in your eyes?

Grow up Kathy, and please, try to understand this:

THERE IS AN ENTIRE WORLD OF DIFFERING OPINION OUTSIDE YOUR LITTLE NICHE!

Not everyone believes in God, not everyone believes in Allah, and not everyone believes in your rapture. When you cram your beliefs down others throats without being able to support them with evidence, but rather choose feable fear mongering type tactics, you're embarrassing yourself and your religion (or relationship, or whatever you have).

Monster

I'd love to introduce Kathy to my sister-in-law's father. He's from Turkey and is Muslim. He's a really nice guy who hosts a big party every holiday season for all of the extended family. He even has a Christmas tree with dollar bills tied to it for children to take. His wife is Greek Orthodox, he enjoys fine Cognac, wine or Bourbon in moderation, and his big "secret" is that he enjoys bacon with his breakfast on occasion. Although he is an engineer by trade he is an excellent cook and makes the best damned coffee I've ever had.

It's too bad that Kathy doesn't see Muslims as human beings rather than de-humanized caricatures of evil. To see Christians the way she sees Muslims one would have to assume that the Christian Identity movement with its fantasies of "racial holy war" was representative of the majority of Christians, rather than the lunatic fringe.

[slingblade]

Voice of Experience here:

Kathy's form of fundamentalism doesn't work unless one keeps one's mind firmly shut, believes what one is told to believe, and doesn't allow any contradictive information, or heaven forfend, facts, to break the illusion.

She isn't allowed to think that anyone who differs from what she's been taught might be right. That's really all there is to it. She must condemn them, and keep them as outsiders, as "other," as the "them" to her "us."

This is, as we know, because she has been horribly deceived and lied to, and all that is wrapped up in a big package of fear with a threat-of-hellfire bow on top. I believe those come in flame-red, only.

If she ever does start to open her mind, to consider others might know a thing or two, or even that others might be more like her than she suspects, her faith will crumble. The other former Fundies here can confirm this, I have no doubt.

It's sad, but the only one who holds the key to unlocking her mind and her heart is Kathy herself. She must keep pretending she lost it, and can't find it. But someday, perhaps, she will. Many of us did, after all. And I know I was just as bad, once.

[Foster Zygote]

Voice of Experience here:

Kathy's form of fundamentalism doesn't work unless one keeps one's mind firmly shut, believes what one is told to believe, and doesn't allow any contradictive information, or heaven forfend, facts, to break the illusion.

She isn't allowed to think that anyone who differs from what she's been taught might be right. That's really all there is to it. She must condemn them, and keep them as outsiders, as "other," as the "them" to her "us."

This is, as we know, because she has been horribly deceived and lied to, and all that is wrapped up in a big package of fear with a threat-of-hellfire bow on top. I believe those come in flame-red, only.

If she ever does start to open her mind, to consider others might know a thing or two, or even that others might be more like her than she suspects, her faith will crumble. The other former Fundies here can confirm this, I have no doubt.

It's sad, but the only one who holds the key to unlocking her mind and her heart is Kathy herself. She must keep pretending she lost it, and can't find it. But someday, perhaps, she will. Many of us did, after all. And I know I was just as bad, once.

Yeah, I remember that even Catholics were regarded as some sort of weird cult. We were constantly told that they worshiped Mary and the Pope. Fortunately, I saw through all that by the time the cute little Latina in the size 3 asked me out to the turnabout dance at her Catholic high school. I can't wait to give her a kiss and a hug when she gets home from work this evening.

[Nogbad]

Not entirely sure what is supposed to be "happening over here". Any clues KK?

[Fiona]

As for what I believe, everything going on in the UK is also going on everywhere in the whole world

Unlike a lot of what you choose to say here, Kathy, this is a perfectly simple and easily verifiable matter of fact. Several people from the UK have told you that what you believe is not true. If you imagine they are lying to you then you can search for the laws which you believe to be in place: you will not find them. There is no law against wearing religious symbols in the uk: no law against buying or carrying (or even reading - though that probably does not matter so much to you) books in the uk: there is no law against going to church: there is no law against standing in the street and preaching.

Now are you going to concede you are wrong about this? Are you going to concede that your way of acquiring information about small matters of fact just don't work?

No fancy dancing about some more metaphysical attack on your religion: just a simple statement " I was wrong". Honesty demands it of you Kathy.

[Geezer]

Well the amount of hatred and fear you preach is not going to endear you to the Guy who makes that decision.
Wouldn't it be ironic if there is an afterlife and, due to how judgemental, fearmongering and divisive your views are (in contrast to, for example, the understanding and love the Bible is supposed to actually be encouraging), you actually end up in the... "smoking section"?

Maybe there are a lot of people who smugly believe themselves to be 'preaching the word of God' and destined for Heaven who are actually headed to a completely other place.

And maybe the last words they hear before the eternal fires of Hell sear their ears shut will be
"Boy did you guys miss my point..."

Hehe, this old Rowan Atkinson bit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6FG3ExyeLs) popped into my head when I read this

[soylent]

What is truly disturbing is how sin has ruined this world, this is why Christians long for heaven because we know it will be perfect, no more pain, war, suffering or evil of any kind.

I don't think any sane person could look at the old testament and conclude that Yahweh is not sheer, malignant, unrepentent evil.

When you look at this world doesn't it seem obvious that it is perishing?

No.

Wars and rumurs of wars just as scripture says but the end drawing nearer each day. (Christiand know this)

We're living in the most peaceful period of human history. It's not even close.

It truly is black and white when it all comes down to the question,"Where do you want to spend eternity?" People who deny Christ send themselves to hell. This is what Christians are warning you not to do, you have to make that descision yourself.

That's why I, as a non-christian, is warning you that you're organising your life around a chain letter from the bronze age.

I say we will never stop praying for the lost as we hope God will save them too. If God can save me I know he can save anyone.

He can't save you, because he doesn't exist. It's just a chain letter. Just as silly as those you find littered in the youtube comments:

"This is a true thing that happens! Repost this msg on 5 videos b4 tommorw or you will die!!1"

[shadron]

I still believe in the rapture of the church, but if I die before that happens I would prefer to end up in the non smoking section for all of eternity!

Oh, that's a distinct possibility. For all of eternity, or 5 billion years, whichever is shorter.

[kurious_kathy]

Kathy, this is the most ignorant and racist statement I think you have ever made (and you have made a LOT of them)

Can you please explain to me how mainstream Islam is different from mainstream Christianity? MAINSTREAM. Do you really think moderate Muslims (the majority) are a group of blood drinking, rape-pillage-and-torture demons?

Who the hell cares in Obama is an undercover Muslim or not? Why does it matter to you as an individual? Are you so insecure in your faith in God that if he WERE an undercover muslim, your god would somehow be diminished in your eyes?

Grow up Kathy, and please, try to understand this:

THERE IS AN ENTIRE WORLD OF DIFFERING OPINION OUTSIDE YOUR LITTLE NICHE!

Not everyone believes in God, not everyone believes in Allah, and not everyone believes in your rapture. When you cram your beliefs down others throats without being able to support them with evidence, but rather choose feable fear mongering type tactics, you're embarrassing yourself and your religion (or relationship, or whatever you have).

Monster

Your right I must be more kind when I try to warn others if I think people are being deceived, I'm sorry if I spoke too harshly but I just do not trust Obama and he is appearing to want to cause our nation to fall and become socialistic. Don't you agree this would be a bad thing for the USA? If the rapture doesn't happen in my lifetime I do not want to live in a socialistic country or have this happen to my children or grandchildren.

I also have some very strong concerns about the growing wickedness in the world as we know it and what can be done to change it. I am a California native American girl who does care very much who sits in our Presidents seat taking control of our nation. I am VERY concerned why people tell me Obama never produced a birth certificate? Do you know if this is true and if so how the heck could he become president of the US without proof he is an American?

And it would take a lot more time to go into all the difference between Islam and Christianity which I do not intend to go into. All I want to share is I follow Jesus teachings which I know are the truth. And even though I am a sinner in need of God's forgiveness Jesus is the only one who can grant me or anyone that. There is only one way to the Father.

[kurious_kathy]

Not entirely sure what is supposed to be "happening over here". Any clues KK?
I'm not sure what you mean by over here? You mean Scotland?

Even though this is a topic that affects people after the rapture of the church, I found this little clip on the internet today about the mark of the beast being related to the RFID which I found a bit alarming. It's something to view and ponder either way as it does seem this RFID will be affecting the whole world. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7886083780458588815

[Ethnikos]

I am VERY concerned why people tell me Obama never produced a birth certificate? Do you know if this is true and if so how the heck could he become president of the US without proof he is an American? Go to http://www.obamacrimes.info/ to get all the info.
It started out when he ran for US Senator. He was not eligable for that office, so when he got away with that, they must have figured they should just go for it.

[Mashuna]

I also have some very strong concerns about the growing wickedness in the world as we know it and what can be done to change it. I am a California native American girl who does care very much who sits in our Presidents seat taking control of our nation. I am VERY concerned why people tell me Obama never produced a birth certificate? Do you know if this is true and if so how the heck could he become president of the US without proof he is an American?



Kathy, as with many of the things you have been told and believe, this is a lie.

[Hokulele]

It started out when he ran for US Senator. He was not eligable for that office, so when he got away with that, they must have figured they should just go for it.


Seriously? As someone who lives in the state where Obama was born, yes, there is a valid record of his birth on file. The City and County of Honolulu will even send you a notarized copy if you are willing and able to pay their fee. There are enough posts on this in Politics and Conspiracy Theories to lay this issue to rest.

Silliness.

[Mashuna]

Seriously? As someone who lives in the state where Obama was born, yes, there is a valid record of his birth on file. The City and County of Honolulu will even send you a notarized copy if you are willing and able to pay their fee. There are enough posts on this in Politics and Conspiracy Theories to lay this issue to rest.

Silliness.

Maybe it's because places like Hawai'i and Honolulu sound foreign? You might need to explain to Kathy (and apparently Ethnikos) that they're part of the US.

[Hokulele]

Maybe it's because places like Hawai'i and Honolulu sound foreign? You might need to explain to Kathy (and apparently Ethnikos) that they're part of the US.


Onipa'a!

[Mr Clingford]

I've had a good couple of holidays recently in Devon and the Lake District (actually had views!) and I have also avoided this thread but gave up and had a look again.

Oh.

KK, the internet also has some useful sites which refer to sources, like www.snopes.com, which look at claims such as the Obama not being American one.

As another Brit, I can confirm that one can carry a Bible and wear Xtian clothing in public, if one likes.

Really, I do not think that Obama is the anti-Christ. Also he is not trying to turn the USA socialist - remember the Bible, especially the OT prophets were very keen on social justice - the poor being fed etc.

Also, Hawaii is American, although I wouldn't mind if it were British as it seems like a great tourist destination.

[Hokulele]

Well, you are mostly right, Mr. Clingford.

Hawai'i is a great tourist destination (almost as nice a the Lake District when there are views :)).

Obama really is a legitimate U.S. citizen.

But he is the anti-Christ (we are just keeping that quiet until Armageddon).

[Mr Clingford]

...Obama really is a legitimate U.S. citizen.

But he is the anti-Christ (we are just keeping that quiet until Armageddon).
Ah, must remind myself more often that I may be wrong.


Hawaii also has clear seas in which one can freedive and fantastic volcanoes. I must go there in the next year or two.

[Hokulele]

Ah, must remind myself more often that I may be wrong.


Hawaii also has clear seas in which one can freedive and fantastic volcanoes. I must go there in the next year or two.


If you do, please PM as I would be more than happy to make recommendations or play tour guide (although Sunday mornings may be out, that's my surf time ;)).

I can even make some decent beer suggestions...

[Mr Clingford]

If you do, please PM as I would be more than happy to make recommendations or play tour guide (although Sunday mornings may be out, that's my surf time ;)).

I can even make some decent beer suggestions...
Thank you; that is most kind.

I will keep this in mind. I'm sure my partner (who is also a reasonably sane theist) wouldn't take much persuading (although she isn't keen on the mix of volcanoes and me!).

Mmmm, beer: the source and solution of all our problems.

[Seismosaurus]

Oh so were the Egyptians just being gullible when Obama gave his speech there or did he really mean it? I am not kidding when I say I think he's an undercover Muslim but if not he tells everyone what they want to hear just to gain their support.

I think the same thing about you, actually. It's pretty obvious to me that you are secretly a muslim who just pretends to be a christian.


I'm sorry but we need to wake up in the US and realize this hidden agenda of the Muslim nations is no laughing matter.

And yet, it keeps on making me laugh.


As for what I believe, everything going on in the UK is also going on everywhere in the whole world, we are all truly in a spiritual battle. Tell me when you die where would you prefer to be in the smoking or non-smoking section?

P.S. I still believe in the rapture of the church, but if I die before that happens I would prefer to end up in the non smoking section for all of eternity!

There IS nothing in particular going on in the UK when it comes to christianity. 60% of the population calls themselves christian. Nobody is banning christianity, nobody is restricting it any more than is fair and reasonable. It's a total non issue.

[Monster Machine]

Your right I must be more kind when I try to warn others if I think people are being deceived, I'm sorry if I spoke too harshly but I just do not trust Obama and he is appearing to want to cause our nation to fall and become socialistic. Don't you agree this would be a bad thing for the USA? If the rapture doesn't happen in my lifetime I do not want to live in a socialistic country or have this happen to my children or grandchildren.

I appreciate your realization about choosing your words more carefully when addressing your beliefs versus those of the others here.

If you don't trust Obama, you have to base that trust on concrete policies he has put into place, and not gut feelings you have, IMO. If he has done something for you to mistrust him, then you have something to stand on other than the rhetoric thrown out there by misguided (and sometimes ill intentioned) people. You have to examine the EVIDENCE to come up with a political opinion.

Personally, I can't speak as to whether his "socialist" tendencies would be bad for your country as I am not an American.

Finally, waiting for the rapture to "clean up this mess" is a cop out. You don't know when this event will occur based on your bible. So, in the meantime, you and those who share this belief are willing to let the world around you go to hell and not help fix it. This is truly sad, Kathy. If you don't want your children or grandchildren to live in a country you perceive as bad, then what are you doing TODAY to fix it, rather than wait for someone else (God) to deal with it?

I also have some very strong concerns about the growing wickedness in the world as we know it and what can be done to change it.

YOU have the ability to encourage physical change, Kathy. If you are truly that concerned with wickedness then get out there and right some of the wrongs you feel are being done.

I am a California native American girl who does care very much who sits in our Presidents seat taking control of our nation. I am VERY concerned why people tell me Obama never produced a birth certificate? Do you know if this is true and if so how the heck could he become president of the US without proof he is an American?

This is baloney propogated by people whose favoured candidate didn't get in. It's also quite irrelevant at this point. The fact remains that Obama was democratically elected POTUS. Deal with it.


And it would take a lot more time to go into all the difference between Islam and Christianity which I do not intend to go into. All I want to share is I follow Jesus teachings which I know are the truth. And even though I am a sinner in need of God's forgiveness Jesus is the only one who can grant me or anyone that. There is only one way to the Father.

Kathy, given your history of not really formulating decent arguments, I think you should have just said, I don't know Islam well enough to comment on the differences. That's it. And once admitted you don't know enough about it, you should keep your opinions on the matter to yourself as you would have admitted you're not well informed. Much like I can't comment on your political environment as an American because I am not one. I don't know what it's like to live as an American so I can't comment on it.

I appreciate your devotion to your faith - as far as I am concerned, anyone can believe in whatever they want. What concerns me about YOUR faith is that you are relying on a supernatural event to fix what you perceive to be a dying world. You are willing to allow child abuse to continue, drug abuse to continue, the slaughter of innocents in foreign countries to continue because you believe it will be reconciled when Jesus returns. But you readily admit your uncertainty of this event happening any time soon. You have HOPE that it will. How is HOPE in this reconciliation helping a child being beaten by a parent right now?

Monster

[Ladewig]

I am VERY concerned why people tell me Obama never produced a birth certificate?

And you wonder why you make so little progress with converting people on this board.

As long as you maintain that the world is less than 10,000 years old, you will convince no one on this board of the validity of your claims. As long as you claim that Obama is not a U.S. citizen eligible for the presidency, you will convince no one on this board of the validity of your claims.

So once again we see why you are the very worst person to proselytize at the JREF board. Please go away and send us someone who understands the rules of logic, the rules of evidence, and the rules of debate. If you really wanted to reach us, you would find someone to take your place. As it stands it is clear that you are motivated purely by pride. And that's a sin, Kathy.

[Monster Machine]

If you don't trust Obama, you have to base that trust on concrete policies he has put into place, and not gut feelings you have, IMO.

Sorry - meant to say, "gut feelings based on innuendo and rumour".

monster

[Roadtoad]

Your right I must be more kind when I try to warn others if I think people are being deceived, I'm sorry if I spoke too harshly but I just do not trust Obama and he is appearing to want to cause our nation to fall and become socialistic. Don't you agree this would be a bad thing for the USA? If the rapture doesn't happen in my lifetime I do not want to live in a socialistic country or have this happen to my children or grandchildren.

Un-be-freaking-lievable. Content removed, breach of Rule 12

IF our nation is becoming socialistic, as you describe it, it will be because American citizens like yourself refused to educate themselves as to the critical differences between the various political systems, and how they operate.

I don't trust Obama, either, but I'm not about to get into name calling and spewing unfounded accusations against the man for what he "might" do.

I also have some very strong concerns about the growing wickedness in the world as we know it and what can be done to change it. I am a California native American girl who does care very much who sits in our Presidents seat taking control of our nation. I am VERY concerned why people tell me Obama never produced a birth certificate? Do you know if this is true and if so how the heck could he become president of the US without proof he is an American?

This is baseless. This is further evidence of your veiled racism and your perpetual ignorance. Obama already provided a birth certificate; he had to in order to register to vote in the first place. (At least, that WAS the requirement when I first registered to vote in California back in '78.)

And it would take a lot more time to go into all the difference between Islam and Christianity which I do not intend to go into. All I want to share is I follow Jesus teachings which I know are the truth. And even though I am a sinner in need of God's forgiveness Jesus is the only one who can grant me or anyone that. There is only one way to the Father.

And if we had to find evidence of there even BEING a father in your actions, we'd be hard pressed to find it. Ergo, there is NO father, there is NO god.

Attack the argument, not the arguer.

[slingblade]

Kathy, your bible also preaches humility.

You are wrong about Obama. You are quite wrong about his birth certificate and his citizenship.

Now that you know this, you really need to humble yourself, admit you were wrong, and apologize. I will be judging your Christianity on whether you do so, or not. I expect you will not. You will show you do not possess an humble and contrite heart.

And baby jesus will cry.

[Foster Zygote]

I'm sure my partner (who is also a reasonably sane theist) wouldn't take much persuading (although she isn't keen on the mix of volcanoes and me!).

Volcano sacrifice is strictly "virgins only".

[kurious_kathy]

Kathy, your bible also preaches humility.

You are wrong about Obama. You are quite wrong about his birth certificate and his citizenship.

Now that you know this, you really need to humble yourself, admit you were wrong, and apologize. I will be judging your Christianity on whether you do so, or not. I expect you will not. You will show you do not possess an humble and contrite heart.

And baby jesus will cry.

Who are you to judge me for my opinion? I do not trust Obama for a reason as he does certainly not look like a Christian man in any way. We are called to contend for the faith and if someone seems off to me I will speak up about it as everyone does.

The Lord will forgive me when I'm wrong (because I ask him to) but the only hope I feel we have while Obama is in office is if he does get saved. Sorry I am boisdross again, but Jesus would change that man if he really came to a saving faith as it's inevitable when Jesus takes up residency in a person. One of the first signs to me of this happening would be he would change his belief about abortion. This is a biggy to me as Jesus changed me on that one too. Just because abortion is legal does not make it right.

Also when I look around this world seems everything is being controlled by the anti Christ and Satan already, but we only know what God reveals in scripture that it will get worse before it gets better. Once the rapture of the church happens and the Holy Spirit who restrains evil is removed from this world it is going to get even worse. I would strongly suggest none of us be here to see that!

[elbe]

Once the rapture of the church happens and the Holy Spirit who restrains evil is removed from this world it is going to get even worse. I would strongly suggest none of us be here to see that!

And yet, I totally want to see that.

[Agatha]

He "doesn't look like a Christian man" to you? Oh, please, explain.

[slingblade]

Who are you to judge me for my opinion?

Who do I have to be?

Your opinion, Kathy, is WRONG, because it's based on a lie. Obama is as much a U.S. citizen as you are. Calling this lie your "opinion" does not protect you from criticism. Opinions CAN BE WRONG if they are based on faulty information as yours is.


I do not trust Obama for a reason as he does certainly not look like a Christian man in any way.

And what does a Christian look like? White?
Where in the bible does it say that we judge who is a Christian based on his looks?
Who cares if you trust him? He's still your president.

We are called to contend for the faith and if someone seems off to me I will speak up about it as everyone does.

Even if you're completely wrong and refuse to accept that you are wrong, and won't even go check?

The Lord will forgive me when I'm wrong (because I ask him to) but the only hope I feel we have while Obama is in office is if he does get saved. Sorry I am boisdross again,

Not a word. BOISTEROUS or VOCIFEROUS are words. Boisdross and voicetross are NOT WORDS! Why do you persist in this ignorance?



but Jesus would change that man if he really came to a saving faith as it's inevitable when Jesus takes up residency in a person. One of the first signs to me of this happening would be he would change his belief about abortion. This is a biggy to me as Jesus changed me on that one too. Just because abortion is legal does not make it right.

Obama says he is a Christian. Who are you to judge him?

Also when I look around this world seems everything is being controlled by the anti Christ and Satan already, but we only know what God reveals in scripture that it will get worse before it gets better. Once the rapture of the church happens and the Holy Spirit who restrains evil is removed from this world it is going to get even worse. I would strongly suggest none of us be here to see that!


Here. Read this.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-obama-birth-certificate-photo,0,7688869.photo


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_56044a492b50b7a67.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=16797)

Now what do you say, Kathy? Does this PROOF change your opinion, or can you still not manage to be humble and contrite?

[Lrrr]

I do not trust Obama for a reason as he does certainly not look like a Christian man in any way.

Oh my freaking ${deity}! Obama does not look like a Christian man in any way??? For FSM sake, Kathy, if Jesus was real he looked more like Obama than he does in any of the "beautiful, long haired white dude" pictures in your church. He was from a part of the world where he would look like a Jewish or possibly Arabic man.

We may need to add more rope to get to your new depth of ignorance.

[Ladewig]

Who are you to judge me for my opinion?

And who are you to judge Obama?! I'll admit that there is one timeless principle that is found in the Bible: sanctimonious people will always be a-holes. It was true in Jesus's time and it is still true today.

Obama is an undercover Muslim?! Go peddle your bigotry somewhere else KK because no one here is buying it.

Every post you make drives people further from Christianity. I laugh at your epic fail.

[Toke]

The Lord will forgive me when I'm wrong (because I ask him to)

That sounds a bit optimistic to me, it does not mach an eternal hell.

What if someone ask for forgivenes on the way to hell, or after a few seconds on the spit?

[Foster Zygote]

I do not trust Obama for a reason as he does certainly not look like a Christian man in any way.

Wow! Tell us, Cathy, what does a "Christian man" look like? Is he white?

[joobz]

Who are you to judge me for my opinion? I do not trust Obama for a reason as he does certainly not look like a Christian man in any way.

Is he too tan for your liking? I'm surprized your post didn't contain the word Uppity.
We are called to contend for the faith and if someone seems off to me I will speak up about it as everyone does. Just don't expect me to accept your prejudiced opinions.

The Lord will forgive me when I'm wrong (because I ask him to) So you now command god?


Also when I look around this world seems everything is being controlled by the anti Christ and Satan already, but we only know what God reveals in scripture that it will get worse before it gets better.Is that because we abandoned good christian morals like slavery, sexism and racism?

[Hokulele]

Who are you to judge me for my opinion? I do not trust Obama for a reason as he does certainly not look like a Christian man in any way. We are called to contend for the faith and if someone seems off to me I will speak up about it as everyone does.


I seem to recall that bearing false witness against a neighbor is a no-no.

[Paulhoff]

I seem to recall that bearing false witness against a neighbor is a no-no.
But but but but, kissing up to Jesus makes it OK.............


Paul

:) :) :)

[Monster Machine]

Who are you to judge me for my opinion? I do not trust Obama for a reason as he does certainly not look like a Christian man in any way. We are called to contend for the faith and if someone seems off to me I will speak up about it as everyone does.

The Lord will forgive me when I'm wrong (because I ask him to) but the only hope I feel we have while Obama is in office is if he does get saved. Sorry I am boisdross again, but Jesus would change that man if he really came to a saving faith as it's inevitable when Jesus takes up residency in a person. One of the first signs to me of this happening would be he would change his belief about abortion. This is a biggy to me as Jesus changed me on that one too. Just because abortion is legal does not make it right.

Also when I look around this world seems everything is being controlled by the anti Christ and Satan already, but we only know what God reveals in scripture that it will get worse before it gets better. Once the rapture of the church happens and the Holy Spirit who restrains evil is removed from this world it is going to get even worse. I would strongly suggest none of us be here to see that!


I totally take back what I wrote in post 925. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, Kathy; I was trying to offer you advice and give you a chance to apologize for your racist comment. I now see I was duped.

You are a one track minded, fear mongering racist who has as much of a clue of her religion as I do about rocket science. The fact that you continue to spout these vile and twisted comments while trying to convince us of the love of your god is disgusting.

You are a representation of Christ? Truly, I hope you are correct about the rapture - I want to be there to see the look of stunned surprise on your face as you're cast into hell with the rest of us heathens. I hate to bring myself to your level and wish torment on another human being, Kathy, but you deserve all of the vitriol you get on this board.

I am done with you. Your posts are worthless and a waste of my time.

Monster

[slingblade]

If she could actually see what a man from Jesus' time and place looked like, she wouldn't be kissing up to him anymore.

Race mixing is a sin, didn't you know? :p

[Hokulele]

If she could actually see what a man from Jesus' time and place looked like, she wouldn't be kissing up to him anymore.

Race mixing is a sin, didn't you know? :p


Looked like? Try smelled like. Yay for indoor plumbing and deodorant!

[slingblade]

Looked like? Try smelled like. Yay for indoor plumbing and deodorant!

Well, yeah, but I don't think she said Obama doesn't smell like a Christian....

Maybe he smells like teen spirit? :p

[Monster Machine]

I am so angry at KK's lack of common sense. Trying to play the innocent with a dagger behind her back.

But this:

Is he too tan for your liking? I'm surprized your post didn't contain the word Uppity.



brought the milk from my nose and tears to my eyes.

Monster

[Hokulele]

Well, yeah, but I don't think she said Obama doesn't smell like a Christian....


Well, she did claim he seemed off to her. I typically use that phrase when dealing with milk or hamburger of unknown vintage. So...

Maybe he smells like teen spirit? :p


Nirvana, indeed.

[Lord Emsworth]

Not a word. BOISTEROUS or VOCIFEROUS are words. Boisdross and voicetross are NOT WORDS! Why do you persist in this ignorance?

It's "voicedross," not "voicetross."

[tsig]

And yet, I totally want to see that.

I wanna be in on it. I mean, the party at the end of the world!!

[slingblade]

It's "voicedross," not "voicetross."

She's actually used both spellings, but hasn't used either boisterous or vociferous.

It's okay if you're having a hard time keeping up with her. :p

[Hokulele]

The Lord will forgive me when I'm wrong (because I ask him to)...


And this is the problem I have with your brand of "Christianity". You are allowed to say any hateful filth you care to, as your (non-existent) god will forgive you. It doesn't matter at all what kind of pain you cause to other people, it doesn't matter that you never ask for their forgiveness, it doesn't matter that respect, understanding, and compassion should be a two-way street, it is all about your self-centered perspective.

Disgusting.

[kurious_kathy]

And who are you to judge Obama?! I'll admit that there is one timeless principle that is found in the Bible: sanctimonious people will always be a-holes. It was true in Jesus's time and it is still true today.

Obama is an undercover Muslim?! Go peddle your bigotry somewhere else KK because no one here is buying it.

Every post you make drives people further from Christianity. I laugh at your epic fail.

Obama is the leader of my country and holding him accountable for doing right is what's right. If a President is doing wrong then I have the right to say what I see he's doing is WRONG! It sure looks like he's working hard to get our economy even more vulnerable so the US crashes and then their agenda of socialism will begin. I believe the government has become too greedy and most politicians are on a power trip. (I wish it was different) The US does not want or need the governemnt to run everything, yet it's on it's way isn't it?

Ravi Zacharrias says it best, "If Americans knew what it was the US had that they are tearing apart from the seems they would wake up." I have to say I agree with him.

P.S. Sorry if I'm paranoid about a Muslim being the US President, but I believe that would be one of the worst things that could happen to us in the USA. We all know their agenda is to convert all all churches to mosques and I do not want to see that happen in my country. Did I forget to remind you I am an American girl too? Even if I wasn't a Christian I would take a stand on some of these issues as I care very much about the US being a FREE country.

P.S.S. Is the rapture here yet? I can pray the Lord would hurry but there are still many people I love that aren't saved yet and I do not want them to miss it. Getting out of this messed up world is something to look forward to but in the meantime I intend to fight the good fight of FAITH!

[kurious_kathy]

It's "voicedross," not "voicetross."

Okay I am just gonna live loud and share what I know is truth with a world who is starving for it. Jesus is the truth and the rapture is surely near!

[slingblade]

They were able to convince me of that when I was 6...but then, I thought the men sticking their hands down my pants and up my shirt really liked me and thought I was pretty.

I have since learned that none of that was true.

[Hokulele]

Okay I am just gonna live loud and share what I know is truth with a world who is starving for it. Jesus is the truth and the rapture is surely near!


Well, let's take a look at this statement a little more closely.

What do you consider "near"? Do you realize that people have been claiming that the rapture is "near" for almost 2000 years? What will you do 10 or even 20 years from now when it is demonstrated that the rapture is no "nearer" than it was 2000 years ago?

In other words, you are being had, and it isn't a new con scheme.

[elbe]

...and then their agenda of socialism will begin...

...Sorry if I'm paranoid about a Muslim being the US President...

What makes you think those two things are coupled? Fundamentalist muslims want a islamic theocracy (just like fundamentalist christians want a christian theocracy). Socialism tends to be more secular. Now I know both islamic and secular governments are to be feared, right? But they aren't, really, anything alike.

[Ladewig]

Obama is the leader of my country and holding him accountable for doing right is what's right. If a President is doing wrong then I have the right to say what I see he's doing is WRONG!

And yet in another thread, you said:

I do need to ask you not to judge others for their sins as only God is allowed to do this and we are warned in the Bible not to do this.

I guess you follow the Bible only when it is convenient for you.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
P.S. Sorry ...

More lies: you are nowhere close to being sorry for your bigoted stance.

... if I'm paranoid about a Muslim being the US President, but I believe that would be one of the worst things that could happen to us in the USA. We all know their agenda is to convert all all churches to mosques and I do not want to see that happen in my country.

It is such a pity that you have not even the tiniest understanding of irony. I would love to point out to you that there are fundamentalist Muslims in Asia that say the goal of Christians is to convert every mosque to a church. But that's not important.

What is important is that you understand Matthew 25. When the judgement day comes, KK, you may find yourself with the goats as Jesus casts you out because of the bigoted views you preached to others.

You don't have to live this way, KK. Your twisted views of the Bible lead you into a life ruled by fear and anxiety. There is no reason to fear Obama. There is no reason to falsely accuse him of being a Muslim. There is no reason to speculate that he may be the Antichrist. I know many Christians who understand that the world is not 6000 years old, that evolution is not the enemy of the Bible, and that love and tolerance is closer to Jesus's message than the hate-filled invective that you spread here at the JREF board.

[Agatha]

So Kathy, again, what is about Obama that makes him "not look like a Christian man"? Hello? Is this thing on?

[joobz]

It sure looks like he's working hard to get our economy even more vulnerable so the US crashes and then their agenda of socialism will begin.
Where were you when Bush was spending like crazy?


ETA: I don't believe for a moment that you actually dislike Obama for his economic policies. It's clear that your main beef is, as you said, "He doesn' look like a christian." That statement is pure prejudice. I wonder if Jesus would condone such arrogant judgemental views?

[Lord Emsworth]

Okay I am just gonna live loud and share what I know is truth with a world who is starving for it. Jesus is the truth and the rapture is surely near!

The rapture always reminds me of that Savage Garden song, To the Moon and Back :) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I9hVzqTbn0

I only fear, you'll have to wait a long time for that pilot.

[RoboTimbo]

Okay I am just gonna live loud and share what I know is truth with a world who is starving for it. Jesus is the truth and the rapture is surely near!

How much does your church charge you for this privilege?

[Wally]

So Kathy, again, what is about Obama that makes him "not look like a Christian man"? Hello? Is this thing on?


(pssssst, it's cause he's a neeeegrowwww:eek:)

[Agatha]

"The sherriff's a ********??"

That's what I thought, but I didn't want to add racism to my mental list of the things I find dislikeable in kurious_kathy's internet persona without confirmation from her that this is indeed what she meant.

[Mashuna]

It is such a pity that you have not even the tiniest understanding of irony. I would love to point out to you that there are fundamentalist Muslims in Asia that say the goal of Christians is to convert every mosque to a church.

Kathy may well agree.

[Ladewig]

Kathy may well agree.

I didn't think of that. I suppose we could ask her. On the other hand, if she is going to answer only one question, I'd rather hear her response to why Obama does not look like a Christian.

[Foster Zygote]

P.S. Sorry if I'm paranoid about a Muslim being the US President, but I believe that would be one of the worst things that could happen to us in the USA. We all know their agenda is to convert all all churches to mosques and I do not want to see that happen in my country. Did I forget to remind you I am an American girl too? Even if I wasn't a Christian I would take a stand on some of these issues as I care very much about the US being a FREE country.
What's that, Kathy? The sherriff is a-near?

I was about to repeat my question asking why you think Obama doesn't "look like" a Christian. But I think I have my answer. The above is one of the most ignorant and bigoted things I've read on this forum.

[joobz]

Obama is the leader of my country and holding him accountable for doing right is what's right. If a President is doing wrong then I have the right to say what I see he's doing is WRONG!

I had a realization today.
Kathy, I take back my claim. I do not believe that you are racist. I do not think that it is Obama's race that you have a problem with. I think it is his intelligence.
You are anti-intellectual.

I believe the evidence is quite overwhelming once it is considered:
1.) You refuse to read books that contain ideas that are challenging to you. (The Hokulele Book challenge is the perfect example of this)
2.) You reject evolution outright, without bothering to understand or learn about it.
3.) You claim to understand science, but then get angry when asked to demonstrate your understanding. You even offer up non-sequitors about child rearing, as though being a mother some how excuses ignorance.
4.) You attack the medical profession for their failures yet fail to understand or appreciate the successes.
5.) You don't actually read the bible with the intent on understanding it. Rather, you flip open to random sections and read for inspiration as though you were a mystic reading the I Ching.

Your problem with Obama is that he portrays a learned sense of self that you do not understand. That is what is alien to you and what makes you uncomfortable. Bush spoke of the word in simple terms, the way a child would. Obama does not boil the world down into such clear (and wholly false) black and white terms. He shows an understanding that is new to you, and that is what scares you.

You rebel against learning. You rebel because of what that learning would mean. It would mean the possibility of learning that this whole time you were wrong. Therefore, you reject learning and those who are learned. Kathy, you are anti-intellectual.

[TimCallahan]

It's known that the Muslims have succeeded in converting many old churches to mosques already and they won't stop until they try to take over the whole USA which unfortunately I myself see Obama helping them. Why can't people stop this? The fairness act is not fair at all as it serves the Muslim nations to try to shut up all Christians which just isn't fair. We have just as much right to stand up for our faith as anyone does.

Can you say specifically what Obama is doing to help Muslims in America take over Christian churches? This claim sounds a lot like the usual right-wing smears against Obama: He's a Muslim; he's not really a U.S. citizen; yada yada yada. As in the case of the "swift boat veterans" who suddenly materialized to demonize Senator Kerry when he was running for the presidency, one wonders why these people didn't speak up before. Obama won a fair election, taking both the popular and electoral vote. If you voted against him, live with the fact your side lost - just as I had to live through eight years of Bush. If you do not have specific facts to back up your assertions against Obama, they amount to nothing more than baseless accusations and smears.

Also, what actual specific evidence do you have for any sort of phenomenal growth of Islam in the U.S. as opposed to the growth of Christianity? If what you assert is true, you should have no trouble supplying statistics and telling us what your sources are. I might add that, if Islam's spread in the U.S. is mainly limited to African Americans, since they make up only about 11% of our population, the impact of such a growth in Islam limited to that single ethnic group has no chance whatsoever in taking over the country.

[Elizabeth I]

OBAMA. IS. NOT. A. MUSLIM.

(Sorry, I tried to make it words of one syllable so KK could understand them, but there's nothing to be done with "Obama" and "Muslim." They will be multi-syllabic, the stubborn things.)

And furthermore, what's wrong with being a Muslim? (Except for any objections one might have to religiousity.)

[joobz]

OBAMA. IS. NOT. A. MUSLIM.

(Sorry, I tried to make it words of one syllable so KK could understand them, but there's nothing to be done with "Obama" and "Muslim." They will be multi-syllabic, the stubborn things.)

And furthermore, what's wrong with being a Muslim? (Except for any objections one might have to religiousity.)
I'm sure that KK thinks the 1st amendment was a mistake and that the government should make it illegal for non-christians to hold office.

[Ethnikos]

Obama is the leader of my country and holding him accountable for doing right is what's right. If a President is doing wrong then I have the right to say what I see he's doing is WRONG! It sure looks like he's working hard to get our economy even more vulnerable so the US crashes and then their agenda of socialism will begin. I believe the government has become too greedy and most politicians are on a power trip. (I wish it was different) The US does not want or need the government to run everything, yet it's on it's way isn't it?What would make you think the government is going to run anything? Socialism would be a good thing compared to what we are getting, which is corporate fascism. They have a president who pretended to be a socialist when he ran, but that is just a smokescreen for putting a fascist dictatorship in place. Once people realize they have been had, it will be too late. Obama works directly for the bankers. The government is just the agents of the bankers, as free (to them) bureaucrats to implement the bankers agenda. The government has handed down all their authority to the banks and the banks will only do what benefits them. Socialism would actually care about the people. The banker controlled medical system is only going to be a place to go and die in comfortable surroundings and no actual medical care. Get your vaccinations from the bio-weapons lab. Have planes flying over your house spraying chemicals into the air. Once we are all dead, sell all the real-estate to the Chinese.
P.S. Sorry if I'm paranoid about a Muslim being the US President, but I believe that would be one of the worst things that could happen to us in the USA. We all know their agenda is to convert all all churches to mosques and I do not want to see that happen in my country. Did I forget to remind you I am an American girl too? Even if I wasn't a Christian I would take a stand on some of these issues as I care very much about the US being a FREE country.The soft kill weapons will leave all the mosques intact, so they will be ready for occupancy, once all those pesky Christians are dead.
P.S.S. Is the rapture here yet? I can pray the Lord would hurry but there are still many people I love that aren't saved yet and I do not want them to miss it. Getting out of this messed up world is something to look forward to but in the meantime I intend to fight the good fight of FAITH!Hurry up converting your friends because the nukes might be going off Monday. That might be a clear sign to sceptics that something is wrong in Wonderland. They have all these tactical weapons moved in ready for action on the Georgian/Russian border to continue the fighting they had going last year.
The four horsemen of the Apocalypse are the first four seals and there are seven, so you might have to go through the trouble. If the rapture saves anyone from anything, it would be the plagues. If the pre-tribulation idea of the rapture was right, you would already be gone. Since you are still here, the best you can hope for is a mid-tribulation rapture, if you are lucky, and that means another three years. (figuring we are already six months into the tribulation)

[Hokulele]

Woo fight!

[slingblade]

:popcorn1

[Foster Zygote]

Woo fight!

Almost as good as hot, troll on troll action.

[hamelekim]

kurious_kathy, I don't think anyone can truly say that the Rapture will occur before the tribulation period. So many Christians believe this, but there is little evidence, other than our own wants.

Jesus and the apostles went through pain and suffering, what makes you think we won't suffer the same?

I fear that many Christians will turn away from Christianity when they are still here and the tribulation has begun. I see the tribulation as sort of a wine press to weed out the weak Christians and strength the faith of the strong.

As for Obama being a Muslim or not. Who cares? He's there because God has allowed it and we all know that the destruction of the US is assured. I would be more worried about my soul and doing right than about my government and what it is doing.

You sound like a Dominionist which is rather scary.

[shadron]

Three at oncest. 2012 hasn't got a chance; it'll all be over before it gets here.

[Aepervius]

P.S. Sorry if I'm paranoid about a Muslim being the US President, but I believe that would be one of the worst things that could happen to us in the USA.

The US folk disagree with you. Polling tells us that the worst things would be an atheist. Mixing and matching prejudice, that would probably be a black woman atheist.

[Hokulele]

Black lesbian atheist.

[Mr Clingford]

Well, let's take a look at this statement a little more closely.

What do you consider "near"? Do you realize that people have been claiming that the rapture is "near" for almost 2000 years? What will you do 10 or even 20 years from now when it is demonstrated that the rapture is no "nearer" than it was 2000 years ago?

In other words, you are being had, and it isn't a new con scheme.Interestingly, this isn't quite accurate - Xtians have certainly been thinking that Christ would return soon for almost 2000 years, but only believed in KK's type of rapture and eschatological thinking for under 200 years.

[Hokulele]

Interestingly, this isn't quite accurate - Xtians have certainly been thinking that Christ would return soon for almost 2000 years, but only believed in KK's type of rapture and eschatological thinking for under 200 years.


Ah, good point. There is more than one type of apocalyptic thinking, and I really should know better than to conflate them.

[SezMe]

I had a realization today.
Kathy, I take back my claim. I do not believe that you are racist. I do not think that it is Obama's race that you have a problem with. I think it is his intelligence.
You are anti-intellectual.

I believe the evidence is quite overwhelming once it is considered:
1.) You refuse to read books that contain ideas that are challenging to you. (The Hokulele Book challenge is the perfect example of this)
2.) You reject evolution outright, without bothering to understand or learn about it.
3.) You claim to understand science, but then get angry when asked to demonstrate your understanding. You even offer up non-sequitors about child rearing, as though being a mother some how excuses ignorance.
4.) You attack the medical profession for their failures yet fail to understand or appreciate the successes.
5.) You don't actually read the bible with the intent on understanding it. Rather, you flip open to random sections and read for inspiration as though you were a mystic reading the I Ching.

Your problem with Obama is that he portrays a learned sense of self that you do not understand. That is what is alien to you and what makes you uncomfortable. Bush spoke of the word in simple terms, the way a child would. Obama does not boil the world down into such clear (and wholly false) black and white terms. He shows an understanding that is new to you, and that is what scares you.

You rebel against learning. You rebel because of what that learning would mean. It would mean the possibility of learning that this whole time you were wrong. Therefore, you reject learning and those who are learned. Kathy, you are anti-intellectual.
:clap:

[The Man]

How much does your church charge you for this privilege?

Just your everlasting soul!!!!!!

I think Satan has a counter offer for the same merchandise. Although exchange rates may tend to fluctuate in today’s market. Also I have a hard time distinguishing between the offers and even the prospective buyers.

[The Man]

Black lesbian atheist.

Can’t wait to see it, even if a Clintonesc oval office cigar controversy does not ensue.

[Mashuna]

The four horsemen of the Apocalypse are the first four seals and there are seven, so you might have to go through the trouble.

I went to a seal colony a couple of years ago. One of them looked really hungry, and another kept fighting. I couldn't get close enough to see if any of them were diseased. Still, this has me worried. Can you tell me if all seals are the harbingers of the Apocalypse, or is it just some evil ones. Have seal clubbers been working for our salvation all this time? In trying to stop them, are Greenpeace doing the work of Satan? It's all very confusing.

[The Man]

<snip>

The four horsemen of the Apocalypse are the first four seals and there are seven, so you might have to go through the trouble. If the rapture saves anyone from anything, it would be the plagues. If the pre-tribulation idea of the rapture was right, you would already be gone. Since you are still here, the best you can hope for is a mid-tribulation rapture, if you are lucky, and that means another three years. (figuring we are already six months into the tribulation)

What no late term raptures, like say mid sixth seal? What exactly is the rapture cut off point? Is there no omnibus schedule one could acquire?

[Monster Machine]

<snipped for wackiness>

I fear that many Christians will turn away from Christianity when they are still here and the tribulation has begun. I see the tribulation as sort of a wine press to weed out the weak Christians and strength the faith of the strong.

<snipped for wackiness>

You sound like a Dominionist which is rather scary.


Do you know what's scary? That you speak of this genocide of billions of people as though you were discussing a grocery list. And approving of it.

Disgusting.

Monster

[Ethnikos]

What no late term raptures, like say mid sixth seal? What exactly is the rapture cut off point? Is there no omnibus schedule one could acquire?Mid sixth seal is as good as any, in my opinion. That one is divided up into seven trumpets, so you can look at that as a sub-division of the seals.
I believe the purpose of the Book of Revelation is to teach an understanding of divine justice. It would have been useful to anyone, since the time it was written. The idea is that while you are being persecuted for your faith, you can rest assured that God is not going to let the situation stand forever.
The more persecuted you are, the greater the reward; the greater the persecutors work to do their thing, the greater their punishment will be.
"Let him who has understanding calculate his number" is the the prologue to the high point of what we need to be aware of. This is the identification of who is behind the final great push for distressing the world. Swearing allegiance to that power, perhaps in the hope of having a less intolerable time of it, will give you a worse time of it when God sends the plague onto the Beast, which that persecuting power is described as in the vision.

[joobz]

Mid sixth seal is as good as any, in my opinion. That one is divided up into seven trumpets, so you can look at that as a sub-division of the seals.
I believe the purpose of the Book of Revelation is to teach an understanding of divine justice. It would have been useful to anyone, since the time it was written. The idea is that while you are being persecuted for your faith, you can rest assured that God is not going to let the situation stand forever.
The more persecuted you are, the greater the reward; the greater the persecutors work to do their thing, the greater their punishment will be.
"Let him who has understanding calculate his number" is the the prologue to the high point of what we need to be aware of. This is the identification of who is behind the final great push for distressing the world. Swearing allegiance to that power, perhaps in the hope of having a less intolerable time of it, will give you a worse time of it when God sends the plague onto the Beast, which that persecuting power is described as in the vision.
So are those angels dancing a waltz or a jig while atop the pin?

[TimCallahan]

Once we are all dead, sell all the real-estate to the Chinese. The soft kill weapons will leave all the mosques intact, so they will be ready for occupancy, once all those pesky Christians are dead.
Hurry up converting your friends because the nukes might be going off Monday. That might be a clear sign to sceptics that something is wrong in Wonderland. They have all these tactical weapons moved in ready for action on the Georgian/Russian border to continue the fighting they had going last year.

This post must be part of that latest round of conspiracy paranoia going around. A friend of our, who worked with my wife a number of years in the animation industry, is, unfortunately given to such fears. She recently e-mailed us that the Muslims will be ready to take over America within 20 years. By that time, she asserted, owing to their population growth, they will have enough voting strength to elect a president.

I decided to check this out mathematically. It turns out that immigration from Muslim countries into the U.S. is low. the largest sources of new immigrants, according to the Census Bureau are China, Philippines, India and Vietnam. None of these are Muslim countries. As to what percentage of the population is Muslim, it turns out to be 0.5%. Thus, if every Muslim family in the U.S. has 10 or more children, and there is no erosion of faith due to secular influences, we might have a tenfold increase in the Muslim population of America. Since 10 X 0.5 = 5, that will mean in 20 years, when these Muslim children are adults, the Islamic population of the U.S. will be a whopping 5%!

As to Russia's bullying of Georgia, if the Russians really wanted a complete takeover of that tiny country, they could have done it by now. Since we aren't going to go to war with them over a strip of territory in the Caucasus, all we would do ifthey did fully occupy Georgia would be to make a lot of angry noises and hollow threats. What actual evidence do you have that the Russians are massing tactical nuclear weapons on the Georgian border?

This paranod crap you subscribe to gets in the way of dealing with very REAL problems. Here are a few of them, in case yo haven't noticed:

1) We alone among the developed nations lack a decent health care system.

2) Our dependence on foriegn oil has turned us into a deptor nation and made us vulnerable to the whims of medieval rulers of backward nations.

3) We don't make our own goods anymore and are utterly dependant of foreign manufacture.

4) We owe massive amounts of money to China, not one of the great champions of human rights.

All of these are long term problems, but are not insoluble. However, at least a nodding relationship with the real world is necessary to deal with them. Instead, you, Kathy and far too many others waste your time and my energy on ************ conspiracy theories and such theologically questionable constructs as the Rapture.

[Mr Clingford]

This post must be part of that latest round of conspiracy paranoia going around. A friend of our, who worked with my wife a number of years in the animation industry, is, unfortunately given to such fears. She recently e-mailed us that the Muslims will be ready to take over America within 20 years. By that time, she asserted, owing to their population growth, they will have enough voting strength to elect a president.

I decided to check this out mathematically. It turns out that immigration from Muslim countries into the U.S. is low. the largest sources of new immigrants, according to the Census Bureau are China, Philippines, India and Vietnam. None of these are Muslim countries. As to what percentage of the population is Muslim, it turns out to be 0.5%. Thus, if every Muslim family in the U.S. has 10 or more children, and there is no erosion of faith due to secular influences, we might have a tenfold increase in the Muslim population of America. Since 10 X 0.5 = 5, that will mean in 20 years, when these Muslim children are adults, the Islamic population of the U.S. will be a whopping 5%!

As to Russia's bullying of Georgia, if the Russians really wanted a complete takeover of that tiny country, they could have done it by now. Since we aren't going to go to war with them over a strip of territory in the Caucasus, all we would do ifthey did fully occupy Georgia would be to make a lot of angry noises and hollow threats. What actual evidence do you have that the Russians are massing tactical nuclear weapons on the Georgian border?

This paranod crap you subscribe to gets in the way of dealing with very REAL problems. Here are a few of them, in case yo haven't noticed:

1) We alone among the developed nations lack a decent health care system.

2) Our dependence on foriegn oil has turned us into a deptor nation and made us vulnerable to the whims of medieval rulers of backward nations.

3) We don't make our own goods anymore and are utterly dependant of foreign manufacture.

4) We owe massive amounts of money to China, not one of the great champions of human rights.

All of these are long term problems, but are not insoluble. However, at least a nodding relationship with the real world is necessary to deal with them. Instead, you, Kathy and far too many others waste your time and my energy on ************ conspiracy theories and such theologically questionable constructs as the Rapture.Very well said.

I am also impressed that you have gone to such lengths with this post.

[TimCallahan]

Thank you, Mr Clingford. Since you're located in the UK, and since many Pakistanis have immigrated there, is there a perceived Islamic threat to western values in the UK? I seem to remember there being a fairly large mosque near Regent's Park whan I visited London over a decade ago. What can you tell me about what percentage of the population of the UK is Muslim? Are they percieved as being integrated into English society or are there fears of them impose Sharia law and the like?

[hamelekim]

Do you know what's scary? That you speak of this genocide of billions of people as though you were discussing a grocery list. And approving of it.

Disgusting.

Monster

Thanks for the ad hominem attack.

God's judgement is not genocide.

[paximperium]

Thanks for the ad hominem attack.

God's judgement is not genocide.
Stating that YOUR version of god is a tyranical homicidal genocidal maniac is not an ad hominem, it is a statement of fact. Stating that you approve of anything your fantasy allegedly done including genocide is a statement of fact.

[Foster Zygote]

Thanks for the ad hominem attack.

God's judgement is not genocide.

That wasn't an ad hominem attack as defined by the rules of debate.

And I agree that your personal version of god is a cruel monster.

[Ethnikos]

This post must be part of that latest round of conspiracy paranoia going around.

As to Russia's bullying of Georgia, if the Russians really wanted a complete takeover of that tiny country, they could have done it by now. Since we aren't going to go to war with them over a strip of territory in the Caucasus, all we would do if they did fully occupy Georgia would be to make a lot of angry noises and hollow threats. What actual evidence do you have that the Russians are massing tactical nuclear weapons on the Georgian border?

This paranod crap you subscribe to gets in the way of dealing with very REAL problems. All of these are long term problems, but are not insoluble. However, at least a nodding relationship with the real world is necessary to deal with them. Instead, you, Kathy and far too many others waste your time and my energy on ************ conspiracy theories and such theologically questionable constructs as the Rapture.You seem to be buying into the main-stream media propaganda about Georgia. The election of their president was a CIA op. The conflict is instigated by the Mossad types running the puppet president. The purpose of the whole thing is to bottle-neck the Russians from intervening while the military, formerly of the US, but now of the bankers attack Iran.
All those problems that you mention would go away if we were not giving all our money to the bankers and to a huge military industrial complex for world domination.
If no nukes go off in the next two weeks, then tell me I am wasting my time thinking about the wars coming onto the world.I do not think this is Armageddon or the rapture, it is just the misery, otherwise know as the tribulation. My point is that the rapture ain't happening in the near future, as in any second. It's too late to think it is right (pre-tribulation rapture) because the misery is happening right now. We need to try to do something to stop the wars.

[Agatha]

If no nukes go off in the next two weeks, then tell me I am wasting my time thinking about the wars coming onto the world.I do not think this is Armageddon or the rapture, it is just the misery, otherwise know as the tribulation. My point is that the rapture ain't happening in the near future, as in any second. It's too late to think it is right because the misery is happening right now. We need to try to do something to stop the wars. OK, that will be 22.06 or thereabouts UK time on 15 July. I'll make a diary note to tell you that you were wasting your time. In the unlikely event nukes go off or your god shows up, I'll admit I was wrong in thinking you are deluded.

[paximperium]

If no nukes go off in the next two weeks, then tell me I am wasting my time thinking about the wars coming onto the world.I do not think this is Armageddon or the rapture, it is just the misery, otherwise know as the tribulation. My point is that the rapture ain't happening in the near future, as in any second. It's too late to think it is right because the misery is happening right now.
If no nukes go off, you'll just make up some other paranoid delusional related excuse.

We need to try to do something to stop the wars.
Yes, hence we need to have nuts stop living in a paranoid fantasy world and do something useful.

[hamelekim]

Stating that YOUR version of god is a tyranical homicidal genocidal maniac is not an ad hominem, it is a statement of fact. Stating that you approve of anything your fantasy allegedly done including genocide is a statement of fact.

No, that's your view of God. My view of God is far different than yours.

[Ethnikos]

OK, that will be 22.06 or thereabouts UK time on 15 July. I'll make a diary note to tell you that you were wasting your time. In the unlikely event nukes go off or your god shows up, I'll admit I was wrong in thinking you are deluded.I appreciate you volunteering to help out.

[elbe]

No, that's your view of God. My view of God is far different than yours.

So your view of god is not based on the bible. Why didn't you say so?