From Rapture Ready [Archive] - Page 5

Ethnikos

1st July 2009, 02:34 PM

If no nukes go off, you'll just make up some other paranoid delusional related excuse. I hope you are right. I do not look forward to it. There is a place in the prophets that says something like, "you fools who say you look forward to the day of the Lord. It is a day of darkness."
Yes, hence we need to have nuts stop living in a paranoid fantasy world and do something useful.I agree and I hope someone does, meaning we actually have government by the people, for the people. Right now it looks like government by the bankers, for the bankers.
The fantasy is that the select few blessed will not have to live through the unpleasantness, thus causing inaction from the very people who should be the most active.

paximperium

1st July 2009, 02:43 PM

No, that's your view of God. My view of God is far different than yours.
Really?
So you disagree with the killing of every first born in Egypt?
So you disagree with the drowning of countless children, animals and innocents in a world wide flood?
So you disagree with every episode YHWH commanded his followers in killing all the opposition?

elbe

1st July 2009, 02:45 PM

I hope you are right.

You hope you'll make up other paranoid delusional excuses if nothing happens? That's... odd. Probably not a sign of a healthy mind.

AkuManiMani

1st July 2009, 02:51 PM

Thanks for the ad hominem attack.

God's judgement is not genocide.

Sooo..The deliberate killing of billions isn't genocide as long as your imaginary moral arbiter says its good? Uhm, sure -- I buy that.

Monster Machine

1st July 2009, 06:05 PM

Thanks for the ad hominem attack.

No problem. How is it an ad hom attack?

God's judgement is not genocide.

Genocide: (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/genocide)

–noun
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

Let us not forget that this is what awaits us for the rejection of Christ.

Or for being a weak christian and put through a wine press.

Monster

hamelekim

1st July 2009, 06:11 PM

So your view of god is not based on the bible. Why didn't you say so?

God's judgement isn't genocide. YOUR view is not based on the Bible, it is based on your own corrupted human reasoning which thinks poor me rather than realizing you deserve death.

hamelekim

1st July 2009, 06:13 PM

No problem. How is it an ad hom attack?

Genocide: (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/genocide)

–noun
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

Let us not forget that this is what awaits us for the rejection of Christ.

Or for being a weak christian and put through a wine press.

Monster

The only monsters around are human beings themselves.

To think that you can just get away with your sin and God is supposed to allow it? Are you truly that blind?

That's alright, you keep on believing he is a monster. You will pay the price for your ignorance.

elbe

1st July 2009, 06:20 PM

God's judgement isn't genocide. YOUR view is not based on the Bible, it is based on your own corrupted human reasoning which thinks poor me rather than realizing you deserve death.

That seems rather threatening.

My personal view is not based on the bible, true, which is why I have morals. I am familiarizing myself with the bible for my chapter by chapter review of it, and god is not good. God is childlike and psychopathic. God likes to burn ants just to see them die. If you say that that isn't your god, then your god is not the god of the bible. Otherwise I can only guess that you are either not really that familiar with the bible, or you're just in denial.

And why do I think "poor me"? ...Do you think you deserve death? Because that's one screwed up system you have if you do.

Or, on further parsing, is your world view basically "Daddy hits me because he loves me"?

joobz

1st July 2009, 06:20 PM

paximperium

1st July 2009, 06:32 PM

God's judgement isn't genocide. YOUR view is not based on the Bible, it is based on your own corrupted human reasoning which thinks poor me rather than realizing you deserve death.
I am so glad my views and morality is not based on the Bible otherwise I'd be like you who supports genocide and murder and defends said practices because it supports your pet beliefs.

Ladewig

1st July 2009, 06:32 PM

paximperium

1st July 2009, 06:37 PM

Really?! What have I done that deserves death?
Not submitting to enslavement by his "loving" god.

Lord Emsworth

1st July 2009, 07:14 PM

The only monsters around are human beings themselves.

To think that you can just get away with your sin and God is supposed to allow it? Are you truly that blind?

That's alright, you keep on believing he is a monster. You will pay the price for your ignorance.

The "monster" at the end of Monster Machine's post is some sort of signature. ;)

Ethnikos

1st July 2009, 07:25 PM

You hope you'll make up other paranoid delusional excuses if nothing happens? That's... odd. Probably not a sign of a healthy mind.I meant the other thing.
I hate that the world is going to Hell and I wish it was not. I do not have this big desire to be raptured alive. I do want to have another, better life after this one, just like I have to imagine everyone wants. But having this world being turned over completely to the most evil forces imaginable is not something I look forward to witnessing.
Despite me not asking for it, it seems to be happening anyway. Maybe I am afraid of the wine-press that squishes the ones with weak faith. Even if it does not, I do not wish it on anyone else.

elbe

1st July 2009, 07:27 PM

I meant the other thing.
I hate that the world is going to Hell and I wish it was not. I do not have this big desire to be ruptured alive. I do want to have another, better life after this one, just like I have to imagine everyone wants. But having this world being turned over completely to the most evil forces imaginable is not something I look forward to witnessing.
Despite me not asking for it, it seems to be happening anyway. Maybe I am afraid of the wine-press that squishes the ones with weak faith. Even if it does not, I do not wish it on anyone else.

So... the most evil forces imaginable. They are, what? Democrats? Muslims? Socialists? I can't think of anyone else who's "taking over".

slingblade

1st July 2009, 07:39 PM

I meant the other thing.
I hate that the world is going to Hell and I wish it was not. I do not have this big desire to be raptured alive. I do want to have another, better life after this one, just like I have to imagine everyone wants.

Oh, not everyone. I'm looking forward to the day when life is over. And I do mean over, completely, no more, all gone. Life has been awful for me, and I do not want any more. I certainly don't want any part of any "eternity."

But having this world being turned over completely to the most evil forces imaginable is not something I look forward to witnessing.

Won't happen. Stop worrying.

Despite me not asking for it, it seems to be happening anyway. Maybe I am afraid of the wine-press that squishes the ones with weak faith. Even if it does not, I do not wish it on anyone else.

Won't happen. Stop worrying.

Elizabeth I

1st July 2009, 07:43 PM

TimCallahan

1st July 2009, 07:46 PM

You seem to be buying into the main-stream media propaganda about Georgia. The election of their president was a CIA op. The conflict is instigated by the Mossad types running the puppet president. The purpose of the whole thing is to bottle-neck the Russians from intervening while the military, formerly of the US, but now of the bankers attack Iran. [QUOTE]

All right, since youve labeled the news "propaganda," do you have any actual evidence to offer to support this racsh of specific accusations? If so, what is it?

[QUOTE] All those problems that you mention would go away if we were not giving all our money to the bankers and to a huge military industrial complex for world domination.[QUOTE]

Fair enough with regards to the military-industrial complex. However, don't expect our problems to "just go away." That's rather naive of you.

[QUOTE] If no nukes go off in the next two weeks, then tell me I am wasting my time thinking about the wars coming onto the world.I do not think this is Armageddon or the rapture, it is just the misery, otherwise know as the tribulation. My point is that the rapture ain't happening in the near future, as in any second. It's too late to think it is right (pre-tribulation rapture) because the misery is happening right now. We need to try to do something to stop the wars.

All right, I'll hold you to that. Today is July 1, 2009. On July 15, 2009, when the Geiger counters are no more talkative than they are now, I will demand a retraction from you. It will be interesting to see what sort of rationalization I get in its place.

Paulhoff

1st July 2009, 07:49 PM

For you slow on the uptake of your poor excuse of a so-called idea of a so-called god.

GnV671S6uG0

You need a new up-grade for your so-called god, get with it, grow UP.

Paul

:) :) :)

Achán hiNidráne

1st July 2009, 08:03 PM

God's judgement is not genocide.

tXjaNEc09k8

Larry: "Are rreally you saying that the deity can do something immoral?"

Mr. Deity: "What I am saying is when the deity does it, it's not immoral!"

Larry: "Excuse me?"

Yes, "Excuse me" indeed.

Foster Zygote

1st July 2009, 08:04 PM

Ethnikos

1st July 2009, 08:20 PM

So... the most evil forces imaginable. They are, what? Democrats? Muslims? Socialists? I can't think of anyone else who's "taking over".

Democrats, Muslims, and Socialists would be a welcome relief, compared to who is taking over. All these groups actually want a membership. It is not in their interest to kill their constituents.
People I worry about are sociopaths who delight in genocide. It would be too nice of a term to call them Nazi's. They at least believed in one good race. No, the people I am worried about just think they, personally, deserve to live, and no one else.
Of course they can not do it on their own, so they use various factions to work against each other. They (the deceived) might think they are really doing something good. Read Revelation on the four horsemen of the Apocalypse.

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

You would think, seeing this as your commander, leading you off to war, that you were going for some great and righteous cause. In reality, you are depopulating the Earth. The one giving the first horseman his crown could not care less what the supposed "cause" is. He is only interested in the results, which is desolation.

elbe

1st July 2009, 08:23 PM

Democrats, Muslims, and Socialists would be a welcome relief, compared to who is taking over. All these groups actually want a membership. It is not in their interest to kill their constituents.
People I worry about are sociopaths who delight in genocide. It would be too nice of a term to call them Nazi's. They at least believed in one good race. No, the people I am worried about just think they, personally, deserve to live, and no one else.

So, god? Off the top of my head that's the only entity I know of that delights in the complete destruction of peoples on that grand of scale. If it's not god, then you're going to have to be more specific. Is it the scientologists?

Of course they can not do it on their own, so they use various factions to work against each other. They might think they are really doing something good. Read Revelation on the four horsemen of the Apocalypse.

I've read revelations, it's a drug trip. But everything it describes has already happened, long, long ago. It wanted to say the end times were near/here, but that was over a thousand years ago, and the world hasn't ended yet.

Or, better yet, read Good Omens.

Ethnikos

1st July 2009, 08:26 PM

Oh, not everyone. I'm looking forward to the day when life is over. And I do mean over, completely, no more, all gone. Life has been awful for me, and I do not want any more. I certainly don't want any part of any "eternity."I could see how you would be reluctant to get "locked-in" to an eternity of anything, if what you know is a good indication of what you might be getting.

Achán hiNidráne

1st July 2009, 08:27 PM

elbe

1st July 2009, 08:28 PM

I could see how you would be reluctant to get "locked-in" to an eternity of anything, if what you know is a good indication of what you might be getting.

I'm going to have to agree with slingblade here, I would hate, hate, to have an eternity of anything. Heaven, hell, disney world, it doesn't matter. I don't want to exist forever.

Marduk

1st July 2009, 08:34 PM

I am not kidding when I say I think he's an undercover Muslim

wouldn't an undercover muslim pretend to be a christian and then try to put other people off christianity by making statements that show you'd have to be delusional to believe in Jesus, wouldn't they also try to smear the names of any government leader that isn't Islamic
I don't see Obama doing that, you though Kathy are another case entirely

do you pray to Allah three times a day with the rest of your undercover cell ?

I could easily believe it
:D

Achán hiNidráne

1st July 2009, 08:46 PM

I'm going to have to agree with slingblade here, I would hate, hate, to have an eternity of anything. Heaven, hell, disney world, it doesn't matter. I don't want to exist forever.

George Hrab sang it best:

6s81CF3RpCM

(Sorry, not the best audio.)

Heaven must be really boring,
if you you think about it logically.
All the angels must be snoring.
Who could stand perfection for all eternity?
Not me.

Ethnikos

1st July 2009, 08:53 PM

[QUOTE=Ethnikos;4864093]. All right, since youve labeled the news "propaganda," do you have any actual evidence to offer to support this racsh of specific accusations? If so, what is it?
Here is part of a story current on Google news:
Obama is set to arrive in Moscow on Monday with his wife Michelle, for a visit which includes talks with Medvedev and Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, and an onward trip to the Group of Eight summit in Italy and Ghana.
The US president announced on the eve of the G20 summit in London on April 1 that he would visit Russia in July, in line with his administration's bid to "reset" US ties with Moscow.
Relations between the two former Cold War foes deteriorated after a warm start under the presidency of George W. Bush amid disputes over the proposed US missile defense shield and the Russia-Georgia war last year.{end of article}
Some smart analysts think the talks will go badly, since these problems have only gotten worse. This meeting might serve as a good cover, by saying, "I tried to work things out.", for starting hostilities back up. The problem is that the amount and lethality of the weaponry has escalated.
Fair enough with regards to the military-industrial complex. However, don't expect our problems to "just go away." That's rather naive of you.Not really. Just getting rid of "state secrecy" would uncover enough stuff we could use.
I will demand a retraction from you. It will be interesting to see what sort of rationalization I get in its place.I think I can commit to that. What would you accept as a reasonable substitute for "nukes"? How about the tunnel being put out of commission for a year? That's the objective, and they are prepared to use nukes, if necessary.

Ethnikos

1st July 2009, 09:06 PM

So, god? Off the top of my head that's the only entity I know of that delights in the complete destruction of peoples on that grand of scale. If it's not god, then you're going to have to be more specific. Is it the scientologists?It is Satan unrestrained. Up until now, he has been restrained. Satan has to be let loose in order to complete his wicked work and to show how he really is. That is the way that there will be indisputable proof that he deserves to be destroyed. Unfortunately a lot of people will be affected in a negative sort of way.
Satan wants to be God and he wants to imitate Him and to the extent he is able, to bring about a counterfeit creation. To do that, he kills off the good people and brings about a new race to populate the Earth, with people who take his image and swear allegiance to him.

AkuManiMani

1st July 2009, 09:10 PM

elbe

1st July 2009, 09:18 PM

Sun Countess

1st July 2009, 10:16 PM

I do want to have another, better life after this one, just like I have to imagine everyone wants.
Please don't project your weird imaginings on others. Not everyone wants what you want.

Ethnikos

2nd July 2009, 02:45 AM

Please don't project your weird imaginings on others. Not everyone wants what you want.

Sorry. I had no idea. I will try to avoid saying that again. I just figured that anyone who was not a big fan of life would not be around to post on forums.
I have known a few people who seriously tried to kill themselves but it was more about people being ridiculously cruel to them. It seemed like if they were in a good situation, they were happy enough to go on living. But that might be because the people who were more successful at suicide were not around for me to meet.

Ethnikos

2nd July 2009, 02:54 AM

Assuming that Satan is real and completely evil, the fact that god does nothing, being omnipotent and all, shows that he is the truly evil one. When evil is your nature, that's one thing, when you choose to allow evil even though it is completely within your power to stop it, that shows that you are truly, truly the evil one. And don't give me that free will bologna, the bible doesn't say god gave satan free will, just the humans.What if Satan was somebody known in other Galaxies as Lucifer and everyone there thought he was just the greatest thing ever? If you found out he had been killed by God, you might think God was really evil. The next time God shows up to tour your galaxy, people would boycott the reception as a protest against what seemed like an unjust act. Things would deteriorate from there.
If there was a war that you could blame directly on Lucifer, that blows up the whole world, the other galaxy might still be OK with God. You could still, from the viewpoint of being one getting blown up, feel that your life is worth more than a PR stunt. But you have to think of it more like you are saving the other galaxy from going down the same road we did.

paximperium

2nd July 2009, 03:28 AM

What if Satan was somebody known in other Galaxies as Lucifer and everyone there thought he was just the greatest thing ever? If you found out he had been killed by God, you might think God was really evil. The next time God shows up to tour your galaxy, people would boycott the reception as a protest against what seemed like an unjust act. Things would deteriorate from there.
If there was a war that you could blame directly on Lucifer, that blows up the whole world, the other galaxy might still be OK with God. You could still, from the viewpoint of being one getting blown up, feel that your life is worth more than a PR stunt. But you have to think of it more like you are saving the other galaxy from going down the same road we did.
I'm sorry, your attempt to justify your god's pathetic failure and apathetic evil is rather lame. So your god is apparently too weak and pathetic to do anything without killing or is too idiotic to deal with his mistake running wild.

Monster Machine

2nd July 2009, 06:05 AM

The only monsters around are human beings themselves.

Yes, some truly are. The irony is so thick you could cut it with a knife.

To think that you can just get away with your sin and God is supposed to allow it? Are you truly that blind?

You know, having been a deluded Chosen myself in the past, I used to view non-christians as immoral, sinning everywhere. Now that I have removed those shackles, I am still essentially the same person. I haven't gone out to murder anyone, I am still married, I haven't succumbed to homo-sinuality and I don't abuse my family or others.

Why do the Chosen insist people don't believe because they want to sin?

That's alright, you keep on believing he is a monster. You will pay the price for your ignorance.

Wow. I guess I've been told. BTW - I don't believe god is a monster, I know he is. Look at what his Chosen are wishing on other christians and non believers. Ah, Divine Love - believe it, and you TOO can wish fire and brimstone on anyone you want.

Don't get offended, hamelekim, but it's still disgusting.

Monster

RoboTimbo

2nd July 2009, 06:11 AM

he (Satan) kills off the good people and brings about a new race to populate the Earth, with people who take his image and swear allegiance to him.

How is that distinguishable from your god?

slingblade

2nd July 2009, 06:35 AM

I could see how you would be reluctant to get "locked-in" to an eternity of anything, if what you know is a good indication of what you might be getting.

Honey, there is no hell.

Why don't you go scare some children? :p

joobz

2nd July 2009, 07:11 AM

What if Satan was somebody known in other Galaxies as Lucifer and everyone there thought he was just the greatest thing ever? If you found out he had been killed by God, you might think God was really evil. The next time God shows up to tour your galaxy, people would boycott the reception as a protest against what seemed like an unjust act. Things would deteriorate from there.
If there was a war that you could blame directly on Lucifer, that blows up the whole world, the other galaxy might still be OK with God. You could still, from the viewpoint of being one getting blown up, feel that your life is worth more than a PR stunt. But you have to think of it more like you are saving the other galaxy from going down the same road we did.

So God is like a mob boss who kills a family member as a "warning" to others. How benevolent of him.

TimCallahan

2nd July 2009, 07:14 AM

[QUOTE=TimCallahan;4865050]
Here is part of a story current on Google news:
Obama is set to arrive in Moscow on Monday with his wife Michelle, for a visit which includes talks with Medvedev and Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, and an onward trip to the Group of Eight summit in Italy and Ghana.
The US president announced on the eve of the G20 summit in London on April 1 that he would visit Russia in July, in line with his administration's bid to "reset" US ties with Moscow.
Relations between the two former Cold War foes deteriorated after a warm start under the presidency of George W. Bush amid disputes over the proposed US missile defense shield and the Russia-Georgia war last year.{end of article}
Some smart analysts think the talks will go badly, since these problems have only gotten worse. This meeting might serve as a good cover, by saying, "I tried to work things out.", for starting hostilities back up. The problem is that the amount and lethality of the weaponry has escalated.
Not really. Just getting rid of "state secrecy" would uncover enough stuff we could use.
I think I can commit to that. What would you accept as a reasonable substitute for "nukes"? How about the tunnel being put out of commission for a year? That's the objective, and they are prepared to use nukes, if necessary.

So your answer to my challenge to porvide evidence for your assertion of nefarious goings on - involving all kinds of conspiracies between the CIA, Mossad etc., and ending with someone using nuclear weapons by July 15 - is a news story about a comparitively new American president, who hasn't visited Russia yet, getting ready to visit Russia? That's it? This is simply ludicrous.

No, I would NOT accept a tunnel being put out of commission for a year as a reasonable substitute for the military use of tactical nuclear weapons. I don't see any comparison at all between the two events. However, if you can tell me what tunnel this is and why it has something to do with your march-toward-Tribulation scenario, I'll add that to the list of what's supposed to happen by July 15.

elbe

2nd July 2009, 07:14 AM

What if Satan was somebody known in other Galaxies as Lucifer...

That King mentioned once in the KJV version of Isaiah? What does he have to do with anything?

Poor guy, apparently he once had high aspirations and now everyone thinks he's the devil.

ThatSoundAgain

2nd July 2009, 07:19 AM

Cool name, though.

Sun Countess

2nd July 2009, 07:20 AM

Sorry. I had no idea. I will try to avoid saying that again. I just figured that anyone who was not a big fan of life would not be around to post on forums.

I never said I wasn't a big fan of life. I'm a super big fan of the life that I'm living right now. I'm just not looking forward to another better life after this one, which is what I objected to.

Maybe it's because I know there won't be another better life after this one. Or maybe it's because everytime someone explains how awesome this better life will be, and how it's going to last forever, I know I don't want any part of it. The awesomeness, as described, is usually ridiculous and not what I would personally classify as awesome. And the forever part? Totally sucks. I don't see how that's used as a selling point.

ToddH

2nd July 2009, 08:21 AM

And the forever part? Totally sucks. I don't see how that's used as a selling point.

What? You don't find worshipping at Yahweh's feet and stroking his ego for an eternity bliss? :)

And why does Yahweh need our worship? Does he have a problem with low self-esteem?

Elizabeth I

2nd July 2009, 10:41 AM

It is Satan unrestrained. Up until now, he has been restrained. Satan has to be let loose in order to complete his wicked work and to show how he really is. That is the way that there will be indisputable proof that he deserves to be destroyed. Unfortunately a lot of people will be affected in a negative sort of way.
Satan wants to be God and he wants to imitate Him and to the extent he is able, to bring about a counterfeit creation. To do that, he kills off the good people and brings about a new race to populate the Earth, with people who take his image and swear allegiance to him.

What if Satan was somebody known in other Galaxies as Lucifer and everyone there thought he was just the greatest thing ever? If you found out he had been killed by God, you might think God was really evil. The next time God shows up to tour your galaxy, people would boycott the reception as a protest against what seemed like an unjust act. Things would deteriorate from there.
If there was a war that you could blame directly on Lucifer, that blows up the whole world, the other galaxy might still be OK with God. You could still, from the viewpoint of being one getting blown up, feel that your life is worth more than a PR stunt. But you have to think of it more like you are saving the other galaxy from going down the same road we did.

I don't know that I have ever seen such concentrated crazy. All this and political/economic conspiracy woo, too. I don't know why your head doesn't asplode.

Safe-Keeper

2nd July 2009, 11:18 AM

God's judgement isn't genocide.I've never understood this one. The definition of genocide is, to quote the CPPCG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide),Any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation), ethnical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity), racial (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28classification_of_human_beings%29) or religious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.The multiple Holocaust-reminiscent horrors of the Old Testament certainly fit the bill. If you changed your statement slightly to "genocide is OK when God does it", at least you wouldn't be making up definitions.

Genocide isn't a word like 'murder'. It has no qualifier like 'when done by an evil person' or 'when done in malice'. Saying that killing a whole ethnic group isn't genocide when God does it is like saying that driving under the influence of three litres of wine wouldn't be drunk driving if God did it. Words have a specific meaning, Ethnikos, and genocide is no exception.

The only monsters around are human beings themselves.I truly don't understand. We're talking about God ordering and committing genocide. What does the emo 'humans are evil, evil sinners' stance of fundamentalist Christianity got to do with that?

To think that you can just get away with your sin and God is supposed to allow it? Are you truly that blind?A meaningless sentence when one looks at all the sinners going unpunished, while good people die young of leukaemia.

That's alright, you keep on believing he is a monster. You will pay the price for your ignorance. The only thing more disturbing than this sentence, or the fact that you seem to sincerely want fellow humans to be tortured for eternity, is that you don't realize how you sound like the henchman of some evil dictator.

Communist opposer (angrily, at end of heated debate about the East German government): Bernard... honestly, I couldn't care less. Things aren't going to get better. All you're getting out of building the wall and suppressing free thought is the alienation of the rest of Europe and a downward spiral into oppression and poverty and the eventual collapse of East Germany!

Communist sympathizer (with a sneer): "you say that now... but let's see how you feel when you stand in front of the Stasi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi)!"

Foster Zygote

2nd July 2009, 05:11 PM

RoboTimbo

2nd July 2009, 05:13 PM

We really need an R&P version of the Stundies.

Ooh, nice suggestion! There is no lack of material.

Ethnikos

2nd July 2009, 09:02 PM

I never said I wasn't a big fan of life. I'm a super big fan of the life that I'm living right now. I'm just not looking forward to another better life after this one, which is what I objected to.

Maybe it's because I know there won't be another better life after this one. Or maybe it's because everytime someone explains how awesome this better life will be, and how it's going to last forever, I know I don't want any part of it. The awesomeness, as described, is usually ridiculous and not what I would personally classify as awesome. And the forever part? Totally sucks. I don't see how that's used as a selling point.Me making assumptions, again. Thanks for explaining that, it helps.
The way I look at it is: what if Da Vinci, Galileo, Tesla, and Einstein were still alive and they had been able to continue their work they had to leave unfinished? Wouldn't that be cool. There really isn't any reason to think it has to be much different than that, as far as I am concerned. There is a group of people, described in Revelation as the First Fruits, who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. That is probably not the one you want to be in. Don't worry about that. The people you are thinking about, who want to spend eternity praising God, non stop, will be on tour with Jesus going from Galaxy to Galaxy, showing everyone how great it is that these people were saved. The people into that sort of thing will be in the group. We will be left in peace from annoyance from that sort, and we can go back to pursuing our interests, here.

Ethnikos

2nd July 2009, 09:44 PM

[QUOTE=Ethnikos;4865261]
So your answer to my challenge to porvide evidence for your assertion of nefarious goings on - involving all kinds of conspiracies between the CIA, Mossad etc., and ending with someone using nuclear weapons by July 15 - is a news story about a comparitively new American president, who hasn't visited Russia yet, getting ready to visit Russia? That's it? This is simply ludicrous.

No, I would NOT accept a tunnel being put out of commission for a year as a reasonable substitute for the military use of tactical nuclear weapons. I don't see any comparison at all between the two events. However, if you can tell me what tunnel this is and why it has something to do with your march-toward-Tribulation scenario, I'll add that to the list of what's supposed to happen by July 15.Use this link to an article with a picture of the tunnel. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/01/georgia.russia?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews
Sorry about not giving you more info. This is stuff I hear on the radio, so it is not anything I am coming up with myself. My source is just this guy who I brought up a while back, who was regarded by this group as a nut or quack; Dr, Bill Deagle. He studies all these news events and comes up with conclusions. I do not take the trouble to do much research on it myself because he gets a lot of inside info from different whistle-blowers.
There is a lot of stuff going on with Israel that we never hear about in the US. There is things on a limited time to do things inside of. I realize that is bad English but that is how I can explain it.

Ethnikos

2nd July 2009, 09:54 PM

I'm sorry, your attempt to justify your god's pathetic failure and apathetic evil is rather lame. So your god is apparently too weak and pathetic to do anything without killing or is too idiotic to deal with his mistake running wild.You can accept Jesus as your savior and he will give you the Holy Ghost who will change you to be fit to live.
That is the power of God. As for rebellion and those who refuse to submit to being changed, there is death. The central rebel is Satan who has the power of corruption that can make you truly evil. You are not the main target of God's wrath, but you can join Satan in his future death, by affiliating yourself with him.

elbe

2nd July 2009, 10:05 PM

Ethnikos

2nd July 2009, 10:06 PM

Why do the Chosen insist people don't believe because they want to sin? It is the mystery of iniquity.
It is the corruption in the church, itself. Church goers would like to think that they are saved by going, and would not want to put the blame on their cherished institution. They would rather find fault in the person who wonders away. Paganism and heathenism has crept into churches to make them indistinguishable from the world. Why leave the church to sin when you can sin in the church and feel quite comfortable about it?

elbe

2nd July 2009, 10:10 PM

SezMe

2nd July 2009, 11:06 PM

This is stuff I hear on the radio, so it is not anything I am coming up with myself. My source is just this guy who I brought up a while back, who was regarded by this group as a nut or quack; Dr, Bill Deagle.
Here (http://www.clayandiron.com/) is his site. Our opinion of him - "a nut or quack" - is exactly correct.

You are your own credibility's worst enemy.

slingblade

2nd July 2009, 11:27 PM

TimCallahan

2nd July 2009, 11:59 PM

[QUOTE=TimCallahan;4866316]Use this link to an article with a picture of the tunnel. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/01/georgia.russia?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews
Sorry about not giving you more info. This is stuff I hear on the radio, so it is not anything I am coming up with myself. My source is just this guy who I brought up a while back, who was regarded by this group as a nut or quack; Dr, Bill Deagle. He studies all these news events and comes up with conclusions. I do not take the trouble to do much research on it myself because he gets a lot of inside info from different whistle-blowers.
There is a lot of stuff going on with Israel that we never hear about in the US. There is things on a limited time to do things inside of. I realize that is bad English but that is how I can explain it.

Yes sir, no two ways about it, Russia is bullying its Caucasian provinces and the free countries of the Caucasus that were formerly part of the Soviet Union. And this means? Nothing much, really. If you read a book about the conquest of the Caucasus region by the Russians under Czar Nicholas I, in th nineteenth century, called "The Sabers of Paradise," you'll see that nothing much has changed. This is ahardly the march to the Tribulation.

SezMe

3rd July 2009, 12:54 AM

Tim, somehow you seem to be consistently screwing up the quote function to make posts by Ethnikos look like yours. Try to make sure your quotes are right.

six7s

3rd July 2009, 12:56 AM

Paganism and heathenism has crept into churches to make them indistinguishable from the world. Why leave the church to sin when you can sin in the church and feel quite comfortable about it?Isn't that sort of backwards?Indeed!

From my recollection, christianity cribbed pagan holidays and themes to make it easier for the pagans to convert and have familiar holidays and what have you.Furthermore, the catholic church is frantically 'rewriting history' - presumably as a 'spin doctoring' exercise in response to dwindling numbers of teh faithful - and making many of the incredible/less-palatable/patently-stoopid aspects of teh catechism null and void... much to the surprise of (col)lapsed catholics the whirled over:

-e1H3KRcqKo
YouTube: RELIGULOUS : Disenchanted Vatican Priest Ridicules Christianity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e1H3KRcqKo)
Father Foster is a senior Vatican Priest, one of the world's greatest experts of ancient Latin and a critic of Christianity. Having been thru the entire ********, the good man pokes fun at the obviously exasperating nonsense of Christianity. Lets have it for the brave man who probably endangered his job by saying the bold truths that he did. Why is he still in the Church? Well after well over half-a-century its hard to start a career all over again, so you just have to "live and die with their stupid ideas" :)

Ethnikos

3rd July 2009, 01:27 AM

[QUOTE=Ethnikos;4868651]
Yes sir, no two ways about it, Russia is bullying its Caucasian provinces and the free countries of the Caucasus that were formerly part of the Soviet Union. And this means? Nothing much, really. If you read a book about the conquest of the Caucasus region by the Russians under Czar Nicholas I, in th nineteenth century, called "The Sabers of Paradise," you'll see that nothing much has changed. This is ahardly the march to the Tribulation.
Thanks for the book recommendation.
I have my own theory, which is if you were Israel and reading prophecies about Gog and Magog, or whatever, you might be slightly paranoid about Russia. If you look at the geography for a land route between Russia and Israel, the tunnel would be the best shot. I spent some time last year on Virtual Earth studying it. There are some crazy bad mountains and you can see why they would have built the tunnel in the first place. The reason they might be concerned about Russia is all these tons of bunker buster bombs the US gave Israel for blowing up targets in Iran.

six7s

3rd July 2009, 01:31 AM

Thanks for the book recommendation.
I have my own theory, which is if you were Israel and reading prophecies about Gog and Magog, or whatever, you might be slightly paranoid about Russia. If you look at the geography for a land route between Russia and Israel, the tunnel would be the best shot.Why would Moscow want direct access to Jerusalem? :confused:

Ethnikos

3rd July 2009, 01:35 AM

Why would Moscow want direct access to Jerusalem? :confused:The question should be, why would Israel not want Russia to have direct access to them.

six7s

3rd July 2009, 01:38 AM

The question should be, why would Israel not want Russia to have direct access to them.If you actually have a point to make, then please make it

Otherwise, please resist the urge to post any more inane waffle

TYIA :)

elbe

3rd July 2009, 03:42 AM

Why would Moscow want direct access to Jerusalem? :confused:

Well, that crappy book Left Behind starts with Russia sending an allout nuclear attack against Israel, that's gotta mean something, right?!

RoboTimbo

3rd July 2009, 05:49 AM

[Satan] kills off the good people and brings about a new race to populate the Earth, with people who take his image and swear allegiance to him.

Ethnikos, you failed to answer earlier. How is this distinguishable from your god's handiwork?

Paulhoff

3rd July 2009, 05:50 AM

You can accept Jesus as your savior and he will give you the Holy Ghost who will change you to be fit to live.
That is the power of God. As for rebellion and those who refuse to submit to being changed, there is death. The central rebel is Satan who has the power of corruption that can make you truly evil. You are not the main target of God's wrath, but you can join Satan in his future death, by affiliating yourself with him.
I'm still waiting for your so-called proof of these magical beings, and the real need for them. Has a child, I already knew that I was being feed BS, the world around me showed me that, but the people feeding me that stuff knew little to nothing about the world in which they lived, but miracles of miracles they knew all about so-called god and Jesus.

Funny how in the beginning of the bible there was only one so-called god and then it became three, people seem to like things to come in threes.

It is also funny that for a so-called all powerful being, it only has two things that can happen to you after death, and that is the one heaven and two hell. Not a very creative being you have there.

I would like to know, what the hell did the animals do to now have disease and death, because when they where in so-called Eden all was sweet and nice. Their parents weren’t so-called Adam and EVE, their parents didn’t sin, so why is all the same BS happening to them as with people, and damn, they don’t get to go to heaven after they die, what a raw deal they got. Wait, they don’t have a soul and so-called free will, gee that makes it all OK now, sorry.

Paul

:) :) :)

Ethnikos

3rd July 2009, 07:41 AM

Well, that crappy book Left Behind starts with Russia sending an allout nuclear attack against Israel, that's gotta mean something, right?!http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=216&pictureid=1280I would not put any credence in that book series. I made a little montage from some pics I found of property in Israel owned by the Russian Orthodox Church. I doubt Russia is going to take out Jerusalem. I guess they could do Tel Aviv.

These are the Mount of Olives Ascension Convent, Russian Orthodox Church at Ein Kerem, the Church of St. Mary Magdalene.

Foster Zygote

3rd July 2009, 07:45 AM

Considering all the Russian Orthodox churches in the United States I guess that whole Cold War thing was a pretty shallow threat.

paximperium

3rd July 2009, 08:15 AM

paximperium

3rd July 2009, 08:17 AM

I would not put any credence in that book series. I put as much credence to the Left Behind series as your paranoid conspiracy addled fantasies.

I made a little montage from some pics I found of property in Israel owned by the Russian Orthodox Church. I doubt Russia is going to take out Jerusalem. I guess they could do Tel Aviv.

Why? Do tell.

Ethnikos

3rd July 2009, 08:33 AM

Considering all the Russian Orthodox churches in the United States I guess that whole Cold War thing was a pretty shallow threat.
http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=216&pictureid=1281
Jerusalem is like a prize, or some kind of jewel, that no one is about to blow up. That's why the Russians would rather run over the Jews like they do to the Palestinians in Gaza.
These church properties were being taken care of by what called itself, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russian. Now Russia has a new interest in these holdings in Jerusalem and got Israel to help them physically throw the ROCOR out, and replaced them with their ROC people.
Jews who emigrated from Russia were allowed to bring a Christian family member with them, so there are a lot of the ROC living as Israeli citizens.

Ethnikos

3rd July 2009, 08:55 AM

What a non-answer. Your fantasy god is too pathetically weak or too apathetic to take out this Satan character. Even as a fictional character, YHWH is pretty lame and incompetent.God has to do things in such a way as not not have evil get the upper hand, ever again, anywhere.

What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time. Nahum 1:9

God is doing what is the most Just.

The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works. Psalm 145:17

Satan will inevitably be done away with.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. Revelation 12:10

paximperium

3rd July 2009, 09:02 AM

God has to do things in such a way as not not have evil get the upper hand, ever again, anywhere. So your god has limitations? Weak isn't he? Sorry, you fantasy character created a problem and set the rules but is limited by it? What nonsense.

So is your god pathetically weak, incompetant or just apathetic?

Satan will inevitably be done away with. So what's your fantasy god waiting for? The creation of a super penile enhancer? A big gun?

Why does all your apologetics seem to make your god seem more pathetic the harder you try?

TimCallahan

3rd July 2009, 09:03 AM

I have my own theory, which is if you were Israel and reading prophecies about Gog and Magog, or whatever, you might be slightly paranoid about Russia. If you look at the geography for a land route between Russia and Israel, the tunnel would be the best shot. I spent some time last year on Virtual Earth studying it. There are some crazy bad mountains and you can see why they would have built the tunnel in the first place. The reason they might be concerned about Russia is all these tons of bunker buster bombs the US gave Israel for blowing up targets in Iran.

A tunnel from where to where? From Russia north of the Caucasus Mountains all the way to Israel? Are you serious?

Also, what is the reason Russia would want to attack Israel? Hal Lindsey had some lame speculations that it would be for food or for the great mineral wealth of the Dead Sea. Both speculations are absurd. The middle east is hardly a bread-basket, and Russia has far more mineral wealth in the Ural mountains and the Caspian depression than can be found in or near the Dead Sea. Oil is also out of the question, since Israel doesn't have great oil wealth, while Russia does.

As to the Gog and Magog prophecy in Ezekiel 38 and 39; to the degree that these names can be identified with anyone, it woud be the Scythians, who, as the Assyrian Empire was collapsing, crossed the Caucasus Mountains and ravaged the Middle East as far as Egypt. They were still in control of areas of the region when the Medes and Chaldeans divided up the Assyrian Empire between them. Eventually, the Medes had to drive them back across the Caucasus. Thus, for Ezekiel's time, an invasion by barbarians from north of the Caucasus Mountains was still a viable threat.

The Scythians were eventually conquered by the Sarmatians, who, in their turn fell to the Huns. As the Slavic peoples slowly expanded across the Russian steppe, a successoin of nomadic empires rose and fell in that region: the Avars, The Magyars, the Cumans and finally the Mongols. All these nomads are gone or have been absorbed by the Russians. And that is the only, pathetically tenuous link by which Russia can be identified with Gog and Magog.

Elizabeth I

3rd July 2009, 09:03 AM

It's fascinating to watch people go through these contortions to make the real world appear to accord with their delusions.

six7s

3rd July 2009, 10:43 AM

It's called being flexible:
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:hcbwT4077S8UnM:http://brotherpeacemaker.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/head_up_your_ass.jpg

shadron

3rd July 2009, 11:52 AM

The way I look at it is: what if Da Vinci, Galileo, Tesla, and Einstein were still alive and they had been able to continue their work they had to leave unfinished? Wouldn't that be cool. There really isn't any reason to think it has to be much different than that, as far as I am concerned.

On the other hand, I can think of little that would disgust me more than to see Da Vinci, Einstein, Tesla and Galileo arguing over the meaning of original sin, or simply staring in blissed out rapture. Besides, what would be the point in any human endeavour when it is blindingly obvious that all that was only an arbitrary test case?

A rabbi was once asked what he thought about Albert Einstein when the latter was feted in New York after being forced to emigrate. The rabbi remarked that he was in awe of the man's brains, but what a waste it was that he was arguing about aspects of this world when he could have been immersed in the arcanities of Jewish relions, ethics and law. "He could have been an expert on the Kaballah!"

The Man

3rd July 2009, 01:26 PM

Now that would have been something, relativity based on Kaballahmatics as opposed to kinematics. Somehow I do not think it would have had the same impact, but we will never know.

Paulhoff

3rd July 2009, 02:27 PM

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=14466&d=1246636914

This is there so-called male god, it is standing up nice and straight on it's feet, and the picture makes more sense then what they say about it.

Paul

:) :) :)

Ethnikos

3rd July 2009, 06:36 PM

A tunnel from where to where? From Russia north of the Caucasus Mountains all the way to Israel? Are you serious?Here is a link to the Wikipedia page on it. Use the maps to see how this route would be important to going to the South from Russia, if you wanted to go by land.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roki_Tunnel
Also, what is the reason Russia would want to attack Israel? The reason Russia might want to go through Georgia would be to move equipment on the ground to do close up attacks to re-capture Jerusalem, without blowing it to rubble. The excuse would be an alliance with Iran, that Russia may or may not honor if Israel attacks Iranian targets.There is already a plan for Israel to be attacked by Arab countries.
As to the Gog and Magog prophecy in Ezekiel 38 and 39;. . .
. . . . .
that is the only, pathetically tenuous link by which Russia can be identified with Gog and Magog.If you were Israel, and were planning something likely to start WWIII, you would be taking a hard look at these prophecies. They already have enough problems now.
What you have to think of is Germany and Berlin being divided up after the second world war. Imagine something similar with Israel and Jerusalem, with different powers wanting a piece. Russia would probably want in on it.

TimCallahan

3rd July 2009, 07:03 PM

The reason Russia might want to go through Georgia would be to move equipment on the ground to do close up attacks to re-capture Jerusalem, without blowing it to rubble. The excuse would be an alliance with Iran, that Russia may or may not honor if Israel attacks Iranian targets.There is already a plan for Israel to be attacked by Arab countries.
If you were Israel, and were planning something likely to start WWIII, you would be taking a hard look at these prophecies. They already have enough problems now.

First of all, a tunnel through a mountain pass connecting North and South Ossetia hardly constitutes a threat to invade Jerusalem. What possible reason would Russia have to to get itself involved in a military quagmire in the Middle East? What reason woud you see that they would have to attack Jerusalem - other than your slavish devotion to a worn-out interpretation of a prophecy in Ezekiel?

When you say "there is already a plan for Israel to be attacked by Arab countries," and "If you were Israel , planning something likely to start WWIII . . ." what the hell are you talking about, beyond your own Hal Lindsey style delusions? What actual evidence do you have for either of these assertions (I know even as I ask this, i'll be sorry I did)?

I'm trying valiently to treat you with some modicum of respect; but wtih every new post form you that job becomes harder and harder.

Agatha

3rd July 2009, 07:32 PM

The Roki tunnel is about 2.25 miles long. From Tblisi in Georgia to Jerusalem is about 860 miles [ http://m.happyzebra.com/distance-calculator/index.php?city=Jerusalem&city2=Tbilisi ] so it's even further from the Roki tunnel to Jerusalem Say 1000 miles to make a nice round number (my google-fu can't get more accurate than that at 3.30 am here).

I'm not sure that a tunnel which is only two tenths of one percent of the distance required has much strategic value if Russia were truly thinking of invading Israel.

Ethnikos

4th July 2009, 04:02 AM

First of all, a tunnel through a mountain pass connecting North and South Ossetia hardly constitutes a threat to invade Jerusalem. What possible reason would Russia have to to get itself involved in a military quagmire in the Middle East? What reason woud you see that they would have to attack Jerusalem - other than your slavish devotion to a worn-out interpretation of a prophecy in Ezekiel?I am just trying to imagine why Israel would be so concerned about Georgia that they would have their agents over there setting up for some sort of defense.

When you say "there is already a plan for Israel to be attacked by Arab countries," and "If you were Israel , planning something likely to start WWIII . . ." what the hell are you talking about, beyond your own Hal Lindsey style delusions? What actual evidence do you have for either of these assertions (I know even as I ask this, i'll be sorry I did)?This is what I am hearing on the radio, that there is a league of four Arab countries preparing to attack Israel, I guess because of what Israel is doing to Gaza and their expansion of West Bank settlements.
I do not have some sort of eschatological theory about Armageddon that I am using to guide my thinking. I am trying to be a little bit rational about the situation. I just do not see all of Israel being nuked. If anything, someone could target Tell Aviv, but nuking Jerusalem would seem to be defeating the purpose of going to war with Israel.
I'm trying valiently to treat you with some modicum of respect; but wtih every new post form you that job becomes harder and harder.
What I am hearing is that there is a big buildup of weapons in Georgia, including F-15s, presumably for bombing Iran. If they did go ahead and start bombing, it may be safe to assume that they could expect some sort of retaliation. If Russia wants to keep their agreements with Iran, they would be a logical candidate for messing with Georgia, to stop the campaign.
The paranoia comes from the aspect of virtual mercenaries in Georgia who might not be too concerned about Georgia becoming a dead zone.

Ethnikos

4th July 2009, 04:21 AM

So your god has limitations? Weak isn't he? Sorry, you fantasy character created a problem and set the rules but is limited by it? What nonsense.Self imposed limitations, yes.
So is your god pathetically weak, incompetant or just apathetic?
So what's your fantasy god waiting for? Not waiting for much, right now. God intends to only have this sort of thing that is happening in this world happen this one time. He is not going to end the world prematurely, before the questions are answered. God is determined to have a remnant of mankind that will be fit to continue on into the future. He restrains his hand from punishing, until they are ready to be presented to the other worlds. Then, the others, who have been allowed to exist alongside God's people, will be dealt with.
Why does all your apologetics seem to make your god seem more pathetic the harder you try?I may not be the best person in the world to explain God. I continue trying, mainly because I do not see anyone else doing it here.

Elizabeth I

4th July 2009, 09:16 AM

I may not be the best person in the world to explain God. I continue trying, mainly because I do not see anyone else doing it here.

Wow, not only St. John the Divine (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4865871&postcount=570), but also John Milton!

TimCallahan

4th July 2009, 10:20 AM

What I am hearing is that there is a big buildup of weapons in Georgia, including F-15s, presumably for bombing Iran. If they did go ahead and start bombing, it may be safe to assume that they could expect some sort of retaliation. If Russia wants to keep their agreements with Iran, they would be a logical candidate for messing with Georgia, to stop the campaign.
The paranoia comes from the aspect of virtual mercenaries in Georgia who might not be too concerned about Georgia becoming a dead zone.

Okay, let's start from what you've been hearing about a military build-up in Georgia. What is your source here and how reputable is it?

Next, let's deal with your pharase "presumably for bombing Iran." Why would the Russians want to bomb Iran?

Also, you haven't explained why the Russians would want to invade the Near East. Bullying the nations and Russian provinces of the Caucasus is one thing. Bombing Iran and invading Israel are quite another. Remember, the Russians already had their quagmire war in Afghanistan. So, to go with your scenario, we would have to find some compelling motivation for Russia to attack the Near East. The real estate isn't that attractive, and the Russians really don't want or need a new large territory filled with restive subjects and constant episodes of insurgency. Also, as I've already pointed out, the Russians have their own oil. Nor do the Russians need new seaports.

Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that the Russians want to take over the oil fields of Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia to blackmail the West. Even if we were assume that the Russians are utterly without any decency - an assumption I do NOT make - the obstacles to such a grand move would be excessive. Any attempt to seize the oil fields would galvanize Arab resistance and provoke an American military response. So, for a dubious prize, the very pragmatic Russians would risk World War III.

tsig

4th July 2009, 10:54 AM

Self imposed limitations, yes.
Not waiting for much, right now. God intends to only have this sort of thing that is happening in this world happen this one time. He is not going to end the world prematurely, before the questions are answered. God is determined to have a remnant of mankind that will be fit to continue on into the future. He restrains his hand from punishing, until they are ready to be presented to the other worlds. Then, the others, who have been allowed to exist alongside God's people, will be dealt with.
I may not be the best person in the world to explain God. I continue trying, mainly because I do not see anyone else doing it here.

How do you know what is in god's mind?

Ethnikos

4th July 2009, 11:39 AM

Okay, let's start from what you've been hearing about a military build-up in Georgia. What is your source here and how reputable is it?Here is a news story that could serve as an example of where this comes from.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/troops-gather-on-georgian-border-1729636.html
Next, let's deal with your pharase "presumably for bombing Iran." Why would the Russians want to bomb Iran?Israel wants to bomb Iran.
Also, you haven't explained why the Russians would want to invade the Near East. Russia and Iran have security agreements. If Israel is bombing Iran, Russia might want to do something about it.

Toke

4th July 2009, 11:41 AM

A 1000 mile tunnel, for a secret invasion?
Saner minds would suggest using RO/RO-ships to move hardvare from one port to another.

Ethnikos

4th July 2009, 11:54 AM

How do you know what is in god's mind?
There are angels who communicate God's will. That is the definition of what an angel is. Christians should know the basics about these things. It is not like any of this stuff is secret. Look at the New Testament's definition of a Christian. It says: "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."

six7s

4th July 2009, 11:58 AM

How do you know what is in god's mind?There are angels who communicate God's will. That is the definition of what an angel is. Christians should know the basics about these things. It is not like any of this stuff is secret. Look at the New Testament's definition of a Christian. It says: "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."How do you know that "there are angels who communicate God's will"?

Ethnikos

4th July 2009, 12:04 PM

A 1000 mile tunnel, for a secret invasion?
Saner minds would suggest using RO/RO-ships to move hardvare from one port to another.There is no secret invasion and no 1000mile tunnel. Take a look at some pictures of South Ossetia and there are mountains going straight up. To drive from Russia to there, you want to take the tunnel that goes under a pass that is not too safe to drive on.
There is a well publicised desire of Israel to take out Iran's nuclear reactor.
Here's a little video about the war exercises in the area.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d39ducVkyk&feature=player_embedded
Here's another story.
http://www.upi.com/Security_Industry/2009/06/30/Russia-stages-war-games-near-Georgia/UPI-62291246366800/

paximperium

4th July 2009, 12:06 PM

Ethnikos

4th July 2009, 01:07 PM

Yeah and how does this relate to your fantastic fictional claim again?My original point was to do with the Rapture, and that if you were hoping for a pre-tribulation rapture, I think it is too late. Whether you want to believe that, may have to do with what you define as tribulation. I was saying a nuke going off should be a good sign, to me.
This story of mine is about people who seem ready and willing to start a war.

Ralph

4th July 2009, 01:21 PM

How do you know that "there are angels who communicate God's will"?

Because god said there are.

The fact that god said there are was communicated by angels.

Jesus H Christ--I wish I had a nickel for every religious wing-nut that claims to KNOW what god is thinking and what he does & doesn't want you to do.

joobz

4th July 2009, 02:25 PM

My original point was to do with the Rapture, and that if you were hoping for a pre-tribulation rapture, I think it is too late. Whether you want to believe that, may have to do with what you define as tribulation. I was saying a nuke going off should be a good sign, to me.
This story of mine is about people who seem ready and willing to start a war.
2 nukes went off over Japan. Why wasn't that the mark of the end days?

Toke

4th July 2009, 02:45 PM

There is no secret invasion and no 1000mile tunnel. Take a look at some pictures of South Ossetia and there are mountains going straight up. To drive from Russia to there, you want to take the tunnel that goes under a pass that is not too safe to drive on.
There is a well publicised desire of Israel to take out Iran's nuclear reactor.
Here's a little video about the war exercises in the area.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d39ducVkyk&feature=player_embedded
Here's another story.
http://www.upi.com/Security_Industry/2009/06/30/Russia-stages-war-games-near-Georgia/UPI-62291246366800/

You are still not making sense.

Some infrastructure project in South Ossetia, is claimed to be the preparations for a russian invasion of Israel?
They would still have to drive through georgia, Turkey, and Syria. None of them particulary friendly to russia.

Can´t you maker someting out of russias growing military ro/ro fleet capacity?
(I have no idea if it exist, don´t let that stop you)

TimCallahan

4th July 2009, 04:17 PM

Ethnikos

4th July 2009, 05:33 PM

2 nukes went off over Japan. Why wasn't that the mark of the end days?If any sort of nuke was a sign of the end, it would have started over 7 1/2 years ago.
http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=216&pictureid=1282
Just having a nuke is not the sign that the time of trouble has started, since I think it has started already. The reason I brought up nukes being involved in the war against Iran is because it might take that to wake people up to the fact something is wrong.

joobz

4th July 2009, 06:15 PM

If any sort of nuke was a sign of the end, it would have started over 7 1/2 years ago.
You have a very short memory. I was speaking to Aug 6th and 9th, 1945.

Why do you think 7.5 years ago is any more significant than things that happened 50 years ago?

What about the black plague of the 1300s? Was that less important than things thta happened 7.5 years ago?

Ethnikos

4th July 2009, 06:47 PM

The link you sent in your most recent post is just more stuff about Russia's continuing hostilities with Georgia. Again, I don't see anything here that leads to a Russian invasion of Israel.
The info about the planes is what I heard from Dr. Deagle, who claims he got it from classified sources, whatever that means. So that bit about the F-15's is not something you will find in the news.
Looking at these maps again, I have to think that the Roki Tunnel is mainly important in the winter because it is about 1500 feet lower than the natural passes. The tunnel is mainly important to the Georgia/Russia conflict over South Osettia because it crosses the border from Russia and comes out right above South Ossetia. If the pass was not usable it would be about five times the distance to get to South Ossetia from Russia.
I am not a fan of the idea that Russia will invade Israel. What I think is possible is that Israel might be worried about the possibility.

T'blisi to Tehran = 540 miles. T'blisi to Bushehr reactor = 924 miles. Israel to Bushehr reactor = 948 miles, plus having to fly over Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Kuat and the Persian Gulf.

Ethnikos

4th July 2009, 07:06 PM

You have a very short memory. I was speaking to Aug 6th and 9th, 1945.I realize that.
Why do you think 7.5 years ago is any more significant than things that happened 50 years ago?I don't. They are the same sort of thing.
What about the black plague of the 1300s? Was that less important than things that happened 7.5 years ago?Don't worry about the 7 1/2 years. I think I mentioned that for the benefit of anyone who might think we have to wait around for something else to happen. There are plenty of things that would indicate we are in for hard times.
I believe that before the end comes, we have to see a world power. The enemies of a big world Empire would be Iran and Russia. Putin is a smart person and understood, better than we apparently do, how the banking oligarchs were ripping off his country, so he threw them out. These are the same people ripping the US off. They want to have their hands in the pockets of every country in the world, to suck off the wealth of the world to keep for themselves.
The oligarchs will try to destabilize Putin and Ahmadinejad and then get their banks into every country, whether they like it or not. When that happens, that sets up a situation the fits the requirement for the end off the world. The world does not have to literally blow up, but just be taken over by a criminal organization of super-wealthy. Clay and Iron is what the Bible calls it. Meaning it is a conglomeration that does not fuse into one substance. That is the description of the world power that will rule only for "an Hour".

joobz

4th July 2009, 08:18 PM

I realize that.
I don't think you do.

I don't. They are the same sort of thing. then why mention atomic bombs like some mystical portent?

Don't worry about the 7 1/2 years.
I don't. it was YOUR statement. You are now telling me not to worry about YOUR statements...
I think I mentioned that for the benefit of anyone who might think we have to wait around for something else to happen. There are plenty of things that would indicate we are in for hard times.
And you are completely ignoring my point. there have ALWAYS been reasons to think "hard times ahead". the difference is some people actually care enough to fix the problems instead of hiding out waiting for the hand of god to magically save them.

TimCallahan

4th July 2009, 11:53 PM

The info about the planes is what I heard from Dr. Deagle, who claims he got it from classified sources, whatever that means. So that bit about the F-15's is not something you will find in the news.

Considering your source for this information in Dr. Wm. Deagle, it's a wonder you didn't also bring in connections between the Roki Tunnel and the Illuminati / New World Order / UFO's / the plot to use swine flu and avian flu to depopulate the world. Did it ever occur to you that the reason his "revelations" concerning the build-up of Russian troops near the Roki Tunnel haven't made it to the mainstream media is that he sees EVERYTHING as a conspiracy and is thus not considered a credible witness?

TimCallahan

5th July 2009, 10:18 AM

More on Dr. William Deagle:

He claims that in 1974 he turned down an offer from the CIA to help create the AIDS virus.

He claims to have contacts in the NSA and ATF, through which he knows about Project Omega, a super intelligence agency that oversees all intelligence agencies on the planet. It is staffed by humans and aliens.

He claimed in one lecture the the city of Indianapolis was created as a womb for the goddess Diana (In-DIANA-apolis), and that it is revered as such by local Freemasons. "A gate to the evil one has been created by the shedding of innocent blood."

He claims the Oklahoma City Bombing was carried out by the government, using miniature nuclear weapons.

He claims that at Columbine High School the authorities (local sheriffs and ATF agents) were participants in the massacre, keeping emergency workers at bay until Harris and Klebold had completed their assigned task.

He claims that in March 2001 he attended a private luncheon for FBI and CDC officials in Denver. There, he was told by an unnamed FBI official that there would be an attack on New York City within two years. Martial law and microchip identification would be instituted immediately afterwards. He claims the World Trade Center was brought down by mini-nukes planted inside the buildings (just like Oklahoma City).

Deagle has also said:

"All kings and rulers are subject to the Jesuit general, the Black Pope. Zionism is just an apostate arm of the Babylonian Talmudic Satanism subject to the Vatican. Spiritual dark lords of blood and sexual sacrifice are identical with the I.F.E.s...Identified Fiendish Entities. They exist in the astral planes and in the physical."

He says the U.S. is still under the control of the powers behind the British throne, and those powers are controlled by the Jesuits.

Also, Tesla didn't invent anything. His father, a monk, had access to the Vatican library and found documents about ancient technology. The Siberian explosion (Tunguska) was caused by Tesla's death ray.

He also says the term "Shock and Awe" comes from the name of an ancient Babylonian goddess. "She's a hyperdimensional entity that's real, not imaginary."

There's more, should anyone care to investigate. So tell me, Ethnikos, have I misstated anything? If not, do you relly accept this guy as an authority on anything?

Ladewig

5th July 2009, 10:34 AM

Ethnikos is playing games rather than posting personal beliefs. Don't get too caught up in the content of these posts.

Harpyja

5th July 2009, 06:36 PM

"All kings and rulers are subject to the Jesuit general, the Black Pope. Zionism is just an apostate arm of the Babylonian Talmudic Satanism subject to the Vatican. Spiritual dark lords of blood and sexual sacrifice are identical with the I.F.E.s...Identified Fiendish Entities. They exist in the astral planes and in the physical."

What does that mean? Is that like that movie Forty Nights where a guy gave up sex for forty days, or am I reading that entirely wrong?

Foster Zygote

5th July 2009, 07:49 PM

More on Dr. William Deagle:
*snipped*

So, in short, Deagle is batpoop crazy.

TimCallahan

5th July 2009, 10:45 PM

So, in short, Deagle is batpoop crazy.

You nailed it, Zygote. Now, as to Ethnikos . . . .

Ethnikos

6th July 2009, 05:34 AM

More on Dr. William Deagle:
There's more, should anyone care to investigate. So tell me, Ethnikos, have I misstated anything? If not, do you relly accept this guy as an authority on anything?I do not notice anything that jumps out as being out of place with what he normally talks about. But he does not normally say this stuff. The Nukes thing I have heard him mention before. Usually what he will say is something like, "There are things waiting just outside Earth's orbit we really need to worry about but I can not mention because people will just not believe it."
You can go to Genesis Radio and download podcasts and listen for enjoyable hours, to what he has to say. He was at a hospital in Colorado and treated the first person who was shot at Columbine. He treated old veterans, years ago, in Nova Scotia, who told him all about how they were sent to Leningrad to overthrow the Czar, with a lot of US and Canadian troops. He was the medical officer for the "star wars" space based weapon program so he knows everything about what is going on in space. He discovered the cure for diabetes and sells nutrients that will fix that and heart disease.
Overall, I find him very informative. He is also a good activist in the court system, doing things like law suites against forced vaccinations and making the government open a new investigation into 911.
One thing I found out about that made me want to puke, is one of the guys he has on likes to call himself Lord Sterling. He wrote to the Queen to tell her that when he dies, he wants his title passed down to either his son or daughter, irrespective of their gender. Wow, what a good guy. Blah. Idiot. I hope all the people on his show are not equally insane.

joobz

6th July 2009, 06:03 AM

Usually what he will say is something like, "There are things waiting just outside Earth's orbit we really need to worry about but I can not mention because people will just not believe it."
So, in short, Deagle is batpoop crazy.

He was the medical officer for the "star wars" space based weapon program so he knows everything about what is going on in space.
So, in short, Deagle is batpoop crazy.

He discovered the cure for diabetes and sells nutrients that will fix that and heart disease.
So, in short, Deagle is batpoop crazy.

Overall, I find him very informative. He is also a good activist in the court system, doing things like law suites against forced vaccinations and making the government open a new investigation into 911.
So, in short, Deagle is batpoop crazy.

I think Foster covered the salient point.

dafydd

6th July 2009, 08:29 AM

If any sort of nuke was a sign of the end, it would have started over 7 1/2 years ago.
http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=216&pictureid=1282
Just having a nuke is not the sign that the time of trouble has started, since I think it has started already. The reason I brought up nukes being involved in the war against Iran is because it might take that to wake people up to the fact something is wrong with me.

You left out the two most important words.I fixed it for you.

TimCallahan

6th July 2009, 08:37 AM

He was at a hospital in Colorado and treated the first person who was shot at Columbine.

He treated old veterans, years ago, in Nova Scotia, who told him all about how they were sent to Leningrad to overthrow the Czar, with a lot of US and Canadian troops.

He was the medical officer for the "star wars" space based weapon program so he knows everything about what is going on in space. He discovered the cure for diabetes and sells nutrients that will fix that and heart disease.

Okay, let's take these three things I've quoted from your post and examine them. One thing that Deagle's critics have maintained is that he makes grandiose, unsubstantiated claims. So is there any corroborating evidence for his medical and other claims?

First of all, have you verified that he really was one of the first respoders at Columbine? And why would the law enforcement officers want to help two killers continue to massacre teenagers at a local high school?

As to American and Canadian troops being sent to Russia to overthrow the czar, this sounds like a badly garbled version of a historical incident in which American troops thinking tey were going to the Western Front found themselves being sent to Russia to fight the Communists. AFTER the czar was overthrown, Karinsky (sp.?) and his Menshiveks set up a provisional democratic government, but made the mistake of trying to keep Russia involved in World War I. He was overthrown by Lenin and Trotsky, leading the Bolshiveks in what is called the October Revolution. The Bolshiveks shrewdly pulled out of the war. A civil war ensued between the Bolshiveks and a confederation of Menshiveks and Royalists. The American troops were sent to Russia to help the latter, so that Russia could be brought back into the war to recreate an Eastern Front. Of course this effort came to nothing, since those opposing the Bolshiveks were disorganized and led by incompetants.

Dr. Deagle has discovered a cure for diabetes? Is he being considered for the Nobel Prize in Medicine? This sounds like the type of modern mythology commonly circulating to the effect that someone really has discovered a cure for cancer, AIDS etc., but that the kowledge is being deliberately suppressed by the medical establishment. When, in answer to these accusations, people point out that there's no evdence of them being true, defenders often claim that as a reason to believe their claims, since they see the lack of evidence as evidence of a cover-up. Be assured that if Deagle really had discovered a cure for diabetes, drug companies across the globe would be courting him for rights to manufacture whatever drug or drugs he had invented.

Face it, Ethnikos: The evidence points to Deagle being a pathological liar and probably delusional. So why would you choose to believe him and, implicitly, choose to believe that all the other news sources in the world were lying?

Oh, by the way, today is July 6th. If we don't have an important incident involving the detonation of nucler weapons in nine days, are you prepared to retract your claims on this thread?

Ethnikos

6th July 2009, 08:20 PM

One thing that Deagle's critics have maintained is that he makes grandiose, unsubstantiated claims. So is there any corroborating evidence for his medical and other claims?He does not spend his time substantiating every detail, over and over.
First of all, have you verified that he really was one of the first respoders at Columbine? And why would the law enforcement officers want to help two killers continue to massacre teenagers at a local high school?He was working at a nearby military installation and was called in to go to one of the hospitals where they were going to take victims to. Whatever other info would have been second hand, other than what he learned from the one patient he treated.
As to American and Canadian troops being sent to Russia to overthrow the czar, this sounds like a badly garbled version of a historical incident in which American troops thinking tey were going to the Western Front found themselves being sent to Russia to fight the Communists. That's a good question, and I doubt he is going to clear it up.
Dr. Deagle has discovered a cure for diabetes? . . .drug companies across the globe would be courting him for rights to manufacture whatever drug or drugs he had invented.It's nutrients that are not patentable.
Face it, Ethnikos: The evidence points to Deagle being a pathological liar and probably delusional. So why would you choose to believe him and, implicitly, choose to believe that all the other news sources in the world were lying?911 would be a good example of lying on the part of the networks. Why would I believe them?
Oh, by the way, today is July 6th. If we don't have an important incident involving the detonation of nucler weapons in nine days, are you prepared to retract your claims on this thread?Whenever he gets back to Washington. I think he is going to China after he goes to Russia. There is a G-8 summit in Bejing. It might not be until after that. Dr. Deagal also sells stuff for surviving nuclear fallout.

TimCallahan

6th July 2009, 08:54 PM

911 would be a good example of lying on the part of the networks. Why would I believe them?

And what lies did they tell about 9/11? That bastards from Al Qeada crashed two jet lineres full of fuel into the twin towers? I saw that on TV. Gee, I guess they faked all that. It really looked real. I guess they must have also fed the entire population of New York City some kind of mass hallucination. to make them think the same thing.

As to the nutrients that cure diabetes, what are they? Or is Dr,=. Deagle keeping this a secret? If so, why?

Tick-tock, tick-tock, Ethnikos. It's getting closer to July 15th. Tomorrow's the 7th. your number is up in eight days.

Foster Zygote

6th July 2009, 09:04 PM

He does not spend his time substantiating every detail, over and over.
It would be a huge step forward if he substantiated anything just once.

He was working at a nearby military installation and was called in to go to one of the hospitals where they were going to take victims to. Whatever other info would have been second hand, other than what he learned from the one patient he treated.
Why should we believe anything he says? The only thing that marginally quells my utter disgust at his accusations that the police officers who risked their lives entering a hostile situation trying to save children in their community were actually involved in murdering children themselves is the realization that Deagle is almost certainly mentally ill.

That's a good question, and I doubt he is going to clear it up.
Now that I can agree with.

It's nutrients that are not patentable.
Then why doesn't he publish these nutrients as a philanthropic gesture?

911 would be a good example of lying on the part of the networks. Why would I believe them?
Yeah, why believe a bunch of facts when you can believe a guy who thinks that malevolent aliens are controlling the world?

Whenever he gets back to Washington. I think he is going to China after he goes to Russia. There is a G-8 summit in Bejing. It might not be until after that. Dr. Deagal also sells stuff for surviving nuclear fallout.
Do you own any of his fallout survival gear?

Foster Zygote

6th July 2009, 09:06 PM

Tick-tock, tick-tock, Ethnikos. It's getting closer to July 15th. Tomorrow's the 7th. your number is up in eight days.

It's like the Watchmen doomsday clock.

Ethnikos

6th July 2009, 09:12 PM

And what lies did they tell about 9/11? That bastards from Al Qeada crashed two jet lineres full of fuel into the twin towers? I saw that on TV. Gee, I guess they faked all that. It really looked real. I guess they must have also fed the entire population of New York City some kind of mass hallucination. to make them think the same thing.

As to the nutrients that cure diabetes, what are they? Or is Dr,=. Deagle keeping this a secret? If so, why?You can hear him explain it on today's show.http://www.gcnlive.com/mediaPlayers/odPlayer.php?program=nutrimedical Where he talks about treating diabetes.
I am a frequent poster on a 911 forum and have had conversations with people who were eyewitnesses as in looking up and seeing the plane hit the second tower. No one has been able to tell me they could tell for sure it was a united airlines plane. I watched it on a secret feed connected to a camera at the Coast Guard station that the intelligence people were using to monitor how their operation was going. It was not an ordinary commercial airliner. It was a solid grey military plane. I saw it in extreme closeup.
Plus one of my friends knew Mohamed Atta and knows he was in Venice right before the plane he was supposed to be flying hit.

Foster Zygote

6th July 2009, 09:30 PM

I am a frequent poster on a 911 forum and have had conversations with people who were eyewitnesses as in looking up and seeing the plane hit the second tower.
Well, if someone on an Internet forum claims to have been an eyewitness then he must have been an eyewitness. No need to substantiate that evidence, is there?

No one has been able to tell me they could tell for sure it was a united airlines plane.
Did any of them say for sure that it wasn't?

I watched it on a secret feed connected to a camera at the Coast Guard station that the intelligence people were using to monitor how their operation was going. It was not an ordinary commercial airliner. It was a solid grey military plane. I saw it in extreme closeup.
Unless you can prove this I'm just going to have to go with the more likely explanation that you are just making this up.

Plus one of my friends knew Mohamed Atta and knows he was in Venice right before the plane he was supposed to be flying hit.
Either this "friend" is lying or you are.

TimCallahan

7th July 2009, 12:41 AM

Here's the story, Ethnikos: Once July 15th. has come and gone, without the jnuclear incident you've predicted, I'm done with you and your ************. It's plainly a waste of time to attempt to engage you in rational discourse, becoause you make up your own reality.

Fronzel

7th July 2009, 01:06 AM

Well, if someone on an Internet forum claims to have been an eyewitness then he must have been an eyewitness. No need to substantiate that evidence, is there?

It isn't just internet forums. I occasionally work in Angola. We take a normal school bus sized bus from the airport. One story from during the civil war, somebody fired a rocket at the bus.

If you talk to witnesses, roughly 400 people were on this 30 passenger bus at the time the rocket shot through the windows, turned around chase the bus before finally exploding in a way that would make Michael Bay jealous.

It was something they want to be part of. I'm sure that as time goes by, an inordinate chunk of New York's population will admit to having been at Ground Zero.

Ethnikos

7th July 2009, 02:02 AM

Well, if someone on an Internet forum claims to have been an eyewitness then he must have been an eyewitness. No need to substantiate that evidence, is there?It is not like that. Some no-planer will make some statement. Someone else will say, "I saw the plane and you are crazy." I will ask. "That is very interesting. Could you please describe what it was you saw, exactly." I never had someone say, "Oh it was definitely a United Airlines plane." It is not like they jump in and say, "I can tell you it was not a. . . " That has never happened.
I can safely say that I am probably the only person who you will run across who will say, "I saw it as plain as can be and was looking through the windows and I know exactly what it is." That is because I was watching it through a zoom lens of a high definition camera of someone prepositioned so that the plane flew right over it so I was looking at the bottom of it at one point.
Unless you can prove this I'm just going to have to go with the more likely explanation that you are just making this up.No, I can not prove it. It was not exactly secure and could be seen by anyone who knew how to find it. Other than that, can't say.
Either this "friend" is lying or you are.I can't explain everything because I do not want to get people in trouble. As soon as I started to, the FBI would know exactly who I am talking about.

paximperium

7th July 2009, 02:10 AM

It is not like that. Some no-planer will make some statement. Someone else will say, "I saw the plane and you are crazy." I will ask. "That is very interesting. Could you please describe what it was you saw, exactly." I never had someone say, "Oh it was definitely a United Airlines plane." It is not like they jump in and say, "I can tell you it was not a. . . " That has never happened. So what? You want people to make up things they saw like you do?

I can safely say that I am probably the only person who you will run across who will say, "I saw it as plain as can be and was looking through the windows and I know exactly what it is." That is because I was watching it through a zoom lens of a high definition camera of someone prepositioned so that the plane flew right over it so I was looking at the bottom of it at one point. I don't believe you.

No, I can not prove it. It was not exactly secure and could be seen by anyone who knew how to find it. Other than that, can't say.Post it. I believe you are lying.

I can't explain everything because I do not want to get people in trouble. As soon as I started to, the FBI would know exactly who I am talking about. What a cop-out. I don't believe you.

Ethnikos

7th July 2009, 02:54 AM

So what? You want people to make up things they saw like you do?No. I am trying to point out that no one (besides me) ever goes onto a 911 forum in order to claim they saw the plane and it was not what it is claimed to be in the "official" story.
They go on to say that no-planers are full of crap. I will go ahead and ask them. Normally the person will just not post again. A few people have tried to answer me and they really cant say exactly what it was.
Post it. I believe you are lying. it is not something in an archive that is available. There is a system of cables throughout Manhattan for running TV feeds through, that the city invested money into years ago. The idea is that you could set up a camera just about anywhere and could connect to a network. At the time of the second crash they were running a feed through the network in order for the people who were running the show could watch it live. Remember how Bush said he saw the crash on tv? That was a goof up, but he was telling the truth. He saw the first plane hit, live, from a monitor in his car.
If you were hooked into that feed while it was happening, you would have been able to see the same thing Bush did.
Anyway, don't believe me if that's what makes you feel comfortable. My point is that I have two really big pieces of evidence in my own mind that makes me know the main stream media are bought and sold to the New World Order and I keep my TV in the "OFF" mode.

Please stick to the topic. If you wish to discuss 9/11, we have an entire sub-forum for that.

Ducky

7th July 2009, 03:01 AM

We're having a 9/11 argument with truthers in a thread in the religion section where the OP discusses Rapture Ready?

WTF planet is everyone on? Take it to the proper forum.

Ethnikos

7th July 2009, 03:10 AM

We're having a 9/11 argument with truthers in a thread in the religion section where the OP discusses Rapture Ready?
WTF planet is everyone on? Take it to the proper forum.

The point I was making is that TV, you know the square god in your living room, is not infallible but is in fact deceptive. So don't expect Armageddon to be televised. If it is, it will be when it is too late to do anything.
Unfortunately, I actually listen to Coast to Coast on a regular radio radio to not hog up my resources from my computer. I have to hear Network news on the hour and even that is a little much, for me. Nothing but propaganda.
I asked my room mate if they had anything on TV about the Russians doing Military exercises around Georgia. He said, no. Not too surprising to me.
So, the Obama administration is playing a little game about how Israel is a sovereign country and we can not tell them not to bomb Iran, while we load their planes with bombs.

Ducky

7th July 2009, 03:21 AM

The point I was making is that TV, you know the square god in your living room, is not infallible but is in fact deceptive. So don't expect Armageddon to be televised. If it is, it will be when it is too late to do anything.
Unfortunately, I actually listen to Coast to Coast on a regular radio radio to not hog up my resources from my computer. I have to hear Network news on the hour and even that is a little much, for me. Nothing but propaganda.
I asked my room mate if they had anything on TV about the Russians doing Military exercises around Georgia. He said, no. Not too surprising to me.
So, the Obama administration is playing a little game about how Israel is a sovereign country and we can not tell them not to bomb Iran, while we load their planes with bombs.

Hi, this is Earth. What planet did you say you're on?

Safe-Keeper

7th July 2009, 04:21 AM

Here's the story, Ethnikos: Once July 15th. has come and gone, without the jnuclear incident you've predicted, I'm done with you and your ************.He's predicting a nuclear explosion on the 15th? I assume he's called the relevant authorities and informed rescue workers, charities and whatnot in the area to be hit that they're going to have a major catastrophe on their hands and may want to prepare. Strange that I've heard nothing.

The point I was making is that TV, you know the square god in your living room, is not infallible but is in fact deceptive. So don't expect Armageddon to be televised. If it is, it will be when it is too late to do anything.Your plate of Word Salad has been served.

Unfortunately, I actually listen to Coast to CoastThat explains a lot.
ETA: taking those eight words out of context gave them a new honest, but misleading meaning:p. They are meant to be taken in context with the next quote. Apologies.

on a regular radio radio to not hog up my resources from my computer. I have to hear Network news on the hour and even that is a little much, for me. Nothing but propaganda.Good thing you have Coast to Coast, then:D.

I asked my room mate if they had anything on TV about the Russians doing Military exercises around Georgia. He said, no. Not too surprising to me.Indeed, the Russian exercises near Georgia seem to have slipped all the major news networks by. (http://www.google.no/search?hl=nn&safe=off&num=100&q=russian+military+exercises+near+georgia&btnG=S%C3%B8k&meta=) "Russian military exercises near Georgia" only returned 1 700 000 hits:rolleyes:.

So, the Obama administration is playing a little game about how Israel is a sovereign country and we can not tell them not to bomb Iran, while we load their planes with bombs.The square god in my living room is infallible, therefore it doesn't mention Georgia, therefore Obama is pretending Israel is sovereign, therefore we can't tell them not to bomb Iran as they load their planes with bombs.

I think I need to lie down for a minute. I got strangely dizzy all of a sudden:boggled:.

2 nukes went off over Japan. Why wasn't that the mark of the end days? Oh, but it probably was, to a lot of people. Just like all the other catastrophes and major wars of the last 2000 years since Jesus promised He'd return and His believers entered their perpetual "Any Day Now..." mode.

No. I am trying to point out that no one (besides me) ever goes onto a 911 forum in order to claim they saw the plane and it was not what it is claimed to be in the "official" story.
They go on to say that no-planers are full of crap. I will go ahead and ask them. Normally the person will just not post again. A few people have tried to answer me and they really cant say exactly what it was.So because arbitrarily chosen people are unsure what they saw, it had to be a military jet? Wow, instead of the God of the Gaps we now have the Remote Controlled Military Jet of the gaps.

Ethnikos

7th July 2009, 05:02 AM

Indeed, the Russian exercises near Georgia seem to have slipped all the major news networks by. (http://www.google.no/search?hl=nn&safe=off&num=100&q=russian+military+exercises+near+georgia&btnG=S%C3%B8k&meta=) "Russian military exercises near Georgia" only returned 1 700 000 hits:rolleyes:.

The US TV news, and the ABC and Fox radio news is controlled by the Pentagon. Every single word of it is propaganda. That or Michael Jackson, or whatever the latest distraction is.
I did not notice the google hits saying anything about Russia doing military maneuvers around Georgia, on US tv news.
Do a google search on, US gives Israel bunker buster bombs,
or, fears Israel will use bunker buster bombs on Iran.

Safe-Keeper

7th July 2009, 05:31 AM

The US TV news, and the ABC and Fox radio news is controlled by the Pentagon.Proof?

Every single word of it is propaganda. That or Michael Jackson, or whatever the latest distraction is.Strange, I would have attributed something like that to simple marketing - giving your audience members what they want. Occam's razor at work.

I did not notice the google hits saying anything about Russia doing military maneuvers around Georgia, on US tv news.Maybe not. What's your point?

Do a google search on, US gives Israel bunker buster bombs,
or, fears Israel will use bunker buster bombs on Iran. They're close allies, of course the US is going to supply them with munitions.

joobz

7th July 2009, 05:35 AM

ethnikos has been unable to keep to any claim consistently. Don't bother with her, as she is likely a troll.

Foster Zygote

7th July 2009, 07:33 AM

It is not like that. Some no-planer will make some statement. Someone else will say, "I saw the plane and you are crazy." I will ask. "That is very interesting. Could you please describe what it was you saw, exactly." I never had someone say, "Oh it was definitely a United Airlines plane." It is not like they jump in and say, "I can tell you it was not a. . . " That has never happened.
So they simply don't remember (assuming they were even there and aren't lying in order to get attention). How exactly does this support your assertion that they were military planes?

I can safely say that I am probably the only person who you will run across who will say, "I saw it as plain as can be and was looking through the windows and I know exactly what it is." That is because I was watching it through a zoom lens of a high definition camera of someone prepositioned so that the plane flew right over it so I was looking at the bottom of it at one point.
Please clarify: You were watching the attacks live? How did you gain access to this camera feed? Seriously, I've known children who could lie better than this.

No, I can not prove it. It was not exactly secure and could be seen by anyone who knew how to find it. Other than that, can't say.
And how did you find it?

I can't explain everything because I do not want to get people in trouble. As soon as I started to, the FBI would know exactly who I am talking about.
If what you say is true it seems likely that the servants of the Jesuits or the Joos or the reptilian aliens or whomever is behind all this would have hauled you off already.

shadron

7th July 2009, 09:01 AM

He was working at a nearby military installation and was called in to go to one of the hospitals where they were going to take victims to. Whatever other info would have been second hand, other than what he learned from the one patient he treated.

Why should we believe anything he says? The only thing that marginally quells my utter disgust at his accusations that the police officers who risked their lives entering a hostile situation trying to save children in their community were actually involved in murdering children themselves is the realization that Deagle is almost certainly mentally ill.

I'd like to point out, as a resident of Littleton, Colorado, that the closest military installation to Columbine is an Air National Guard base 20 miles away. The closest VA hospital, also about twenty miles away, was in the process of being deactivated. Between Columbine and the air base were perhaps 10 fully equipped hospitals and hundreds of trauma personnel, many of which converged upon and treated people on the scene. With only about 20 wounded, they were not swamped, and did not call, AFAIK, upon any military or federal assistance.

TimCallahan

7th July 2009, 09:24 AM

O.K., one last stab at rational plausibility:

Ethnikos: If it's not on the news, maybe it's because it isn't happening. Also, this thing about Bush watching the first plane hit the trade tower on TV - where did you get that? Go out and rent Michael Moore's "Fehrenheit 9-11" and watch that twit Bush sitting in a school, reading some lame story about goats or something to small children while he gets the news of the attacks and sits there looking like a deer caught in the headlights. I guess his Jesuit reptile-alien overlords forgot to tell him about it.

Tick-tock, tic-tock: Another day passes. hadn't you better be warning people about where the nuke thing is goin to happen, as SafeKeeper suggested?

Elizabeth I

7th July 2009, 10:41 AM

It's nutrients that are not patentable.

Bull. There is a thing called, I believe, a "functional patent," where, if you combine elements (mechanical devices, etc., not the elements in the periodic table, although I suppose they could qualify as well) in a new way to perform a specific function, you can get a patent for that design. So if your Dr. Deagle has discovered that a mixture of Alpo and horseradish cures diabetes, he can probably get a patent on that combination. It would definitely be worth a try.

Hell, you can even patent genes, for God's sake. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/13/genes.patent.myriad/index.html)

Alternatively, as others have suggested, why doesn't he just release the information and alleviate the suffering of millions, if not billions, of people? A Nobel Prize in medicine would almost certainly be in his future.

Safe-Keeper

7th July 2009, 11:40 AM

Tick-tock, tic-tock: Another day passes. hadn't you better be warning people about where the nuke thing is goin to happen, as SafeKeeper suggested?We could always do it ourselves. Think the relevant nation's authorities would be interested in talking to Ethnikos if we made a 911 call and informed them that an acquaintance of ours had knowledge of an imminent nuclear strike somewhere on US soil :p ?

I can just picture Ethnikos in front of two FBI guys, stuttering that she was just making **** up to get attention on an online message board.

If I were Ethnikos, I'd make every effort I could to warn the people or government afflicted of what was going to happen. Heck, forget about talking to the government, which is probably In On ItTM, what about the people? I'd have, say, impersonated a police officer and made calls around the place telling people they had to be immediately evacuated or get to blast shelters in the face of an imminent nuclear strike.

Fiona

7th July 2009, 11:48 AM

Bull. There is a thing called, I believe, a "functional patent," where, if you combine elements (mechanical devices, etc., not the elements in the periodic table, although I suppose they could qualify as well) in a new way to perform a specific function, you can get a patent for that design. So if your Dr. Deagle has discovered that a mixture of Alpo and horseradish cures diabetes, he can probably get a patent on that combination. It would definitely be worth a try.

Hell, you can even patent genes, for God's sake. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/13/genes.patent.myriad/index.html)

Alternatively, as others have suggested, why doesn't he just release the information and alleviate the suffering of millions, if not billions, of people? A Nobel Prize in medicine would almost certainly be in his future.

Is there any point, what with the bomb next week....

Foster Zygote

7th July 2009, 01:00 PM

We have a week to learn to love the bomb.

I wonder if Deagle's survival kit contains the following: one forty-five caliber automatic; two boxes of ammunition; four days' concentrated emergency rations; one drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills; one miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible; one hundred dollars in rubles; one hundred dollars in gold; nine packs of chewing gum; one issue of prophylactics; three lipsticks; three pair of nylon stockings. Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.

Safe-Keeper

7th July 2009, 03:09 PM

Does the Russian phrase book contain the essentials "Don't shoot me!", "I'm a bolshevik!", and "Yes, please take my automobile, just give me back my daughter!"?

joobz

7th July 2009, 04:12 PM

Who want's to Party!
vrONIb9gQ-k

Agatha

7th July 2009, 04:18 PM

I booked tickets to see Harry Potter & the HBP for the 15th, I am that confident that Ethnikos' prediction of nukes will fail.

Elizabeth I

7th July 2009, 06:23 PM

Is there any point, what with the bomb next week....

Dang, I forgot that part. There's always some fly in the ointment.

We have a week to learn to love the bomb.

I wonder if Deagle's survival kit contains the following: one forty-five caliber automatic; two boxes of ammunition; four days' concentrated emergency rations; one drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills; one miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible; one hundred dollars in rubles; one hundred dollars in gold; nine packs of chewing gum; one issue of prophylactics; three lipsticks; three pair of nylon stockings. Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.

And string! Don't forget lots of string.

Ethnikos

7th July 2009, 11:13 PM

Ethnikos: If it's not on the news, maybe it's because it isn't happening. Also, this thing about Bush watching the first plane hit the trade tower on TV - where did you get that? I studied all that stuff in detail, two years ago. The school is close to where I live now, in Sarasota. I also live close to Venice airport, where some of the "hijackers" hung out. That's one of the reasons I know someone who was very familiar with Atta on an almost daily basis.
Tick-tock, tic-tock: Another day passes. hadn't you better be warning people about where the nuke thing is goin to happen, as SafeKeeper suggested?The aide who was whispering in W's ear is a better liar than Bush. We do not know what was said, other than what the aide said he said. My guess would be something like, "Just stay put and be cool. Your brother is governor and you are safe here in Florida." meaning if people figured out what just happened, there might have been a revolution. The first hit happened five minutes before he got out of the limo and walked into the school.
From what I am hearing, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are going to allow Israel to fly over their countries to hit the area of Iran close to the Persian Gulf. So the nuke business might be a no-go. If they had not gotten permission to use Arab airspace, Israel would have had to use Georgia for its base. The Russians have tactical nukes they would have used to take care of their air-base there. Sorry about that. Hate to disappoint anyone who was looking forward to a nuclear war.
There are people like Dr. Deagle who still think Israel will use nukes. I think that would only happen after the situation has had time to deteriorate. Israel has plenty of high tech smart bunker buster bombs that are made light enough to fit on smaller Jets like F-15's.

TimCallahan

7th July 2009, 11:19 PM

Ethnikos

8th July 2009, 01:28 AM

I'd like to point out, as a resident of Littleton, Colorado, that the closest military installation to Columbine is an Air National Guard base 20 miles away. The closest VA hospital, also about twenty miles away, was in the process of being deactivated. Between Columbine and the air base were perhaps 10 fully equipped hospitals and hundreds of trauma personnel, many of which converged upon and treated people on the scene. With only about 20 wounded, they were not swamped, and did not call, AFAIK, upon any military or federal assistance.I went back and found a place in the podcasts where he talks about it. He had been in Colorado originally with the air force but at the time of Columbine he was "the doctor for the Englewood (5 miles from you?) Fire Dept. and treated the first person shot, just outside the cafeteria, Mark Taylor. It was a psy-op called Death Education, funded by the Federal Gov. They had 40 Federal and State agents."
I know he gets into it, in other places, but it takes a while to find these, out of hundreds of hours.

Ethnikos

8th July 2009, 01:53 AM

Okay, let me see if I have this down right. Your prediction is an Israeli air-strike on a nuclear facility in Iran; but if it doesn't happen, that still doesn't disprove your theory. Is that it, or is there more?The original prediction I made was that Israel was going to use Georgia as a base to hit the reactor in Iran. It is practically the same distance from there as it would be from Israel.
Now that Saudi and Kuwait are going to let them use their airspace, they do not have to use Georgia. Apparently Russia doing a big military exercise on Georgia's border did not make that a very attractive option, anyway. My point was that Russia would probably be inclined to squash the Israeli operation in Georgia as soon as the first bomb hit in Iran. I felt they would be both prepared to escalate it to the point of using tactical nukes.
Having the option of flying straight from Israel eliminates the necessity of getting into a nuclear war that would have been likely with them sitting in close reach of the Russians. But the CIA and MUSSAD might just start another war in Georgia just for fun, but not right away.
I should remind readers that the main point I want to make is that pre-tribulation rapture people should have already left the planet by now, if their theory was correct. People need to realize we are all stuck here for the time being and we need to say, "No New Wars, and Impeach Obama for getting us more involved in war than we were already." Wishing for Armageddon will guarantee that you will die in it, not get raptured from it.

bokonon

8th July 2009, 06:29 AM

Since the Israelis hit an Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981, what's the big deal, Armageddon-wise, if they hit another one in Iran 28 years later? In other words, even if this happens, why would anyone assume it was the starting gun for the Apocalypse?

Foster Zygote

8th July 2009, 06:40 AM

I can safely say that I am probably the only person who you will run across who will say, "I saw it as plain as can be and was looking through the windows and I know exactly what it is." That is because I was watching it through a zoom lens of a high definition camera of someone prepositioned so that the plane flew right over it so I was looking at the bottom of it at one point.
Please clarify: You were watching the attacks live? How did you gain access to this camera feed? Seriously, I've known children who could lie better than this.

No, I can not prove it. It was not exactly secure and could be seen by anyone who knew how to find it. Other than that, can't say.
And how did you find it?

Safe-Keeper

8th July 2009, 07:20 AM

Please clarify: You were watching the attacks live? How did you gain access to this camera feed? Seriously, I've known children who could lie better than this.
More importantly, how did you know to watch that spot, at that time?

TimCallahan

8th July 2009, 09:25 AM

It was a psy-op called Death Education, funded by the Federal Gov. They had 40 Federal and State agents."
I know he gets into it, in other places, but it takes a while to find these, out of hundreds of hours.

Point #1: Why would the federal govenment want to do this?

Point #2: What actual evidence do you have for this accusation - other than Deagle's claims?

Point #3: If such evidence exists, why hasn't some whistle-blower simply dumped onto the Internet?

TimCallahan

8th July 2009, 09:42 AM

The original prediction I made was that Israel was going to use Georgia as a base to hit the reactor in Iran. It is practically the same distance from there as it would be from Israel.
Now that Saudi and Kuwait are going to let them use their airspace, they do not have to use Georgia. Apparently Russia doing a big military exercise on Georgia's border did not make that a very attractive option, anyway. My point was that Russia would probably be inclined to squash the Israeli operation in Georgia as soon as the first bomb hit in Iran. I felt they would be both prepared to escalate it to the point of using tactical nukes.
Having the option of flying straight from Israel eliminates the necessity of getting into a nuclear war that would have been likely with them sitting in close reach of the Russians. But the CIA and MUSSAD might just start another war in Georgia just for fun, but not right away.
I should remind readers that the main point I want to make is that pre-tribulation rapture people should have already left the planet by now, if their theory was correct. People need to realize we are all stuck here for the time being and we need to say, "No New Wars, and Impeach Obama for getting us more involved in war than we were already." Wishing for Armageddon will guarantee that you will die in it, not get raptured from it.

Point #1: Are you prepared to admit that you are wrong if Israel has not made an air strike on an Iranian reactore by July 15? I ask this because you've already shifted from having the Israelis attack Iran from Georgia. By the way, why would Georgia, which has plenty of troubles of its own, want to help Israel possibly ignite another war in the region?

Point #2: You say that MOSSAD and the CIA "might just start another war in Georgia just for fun, but not right away." I really don't think anyone starts wars "just for fun." How would it be in Israel's interest to provoke Russia into having a great military presence in the Caucasus? It would be more to their advantage to have that region calmed down.

Point #3: You say: "Impeach Obama for getting us more involved in war than we were already." I was under the impression that Obama was working on pulling our troops out of Iraq, while aintaining the war in Afghanistan. While I wuld also like to see our troops out of that country as well, I don't see anything in Obama's actions that warent impeachment.

joobz

8th July 2009, 09:50 AM

Foster Zygote

8th July 2009, 10:58 AM

Paulhoff

8th July 2009, 03:39 PM

Keep saying that you are sick and dying, and one day it will happen.

Every age has had people that say it can't get worse, it will happen soon, it hasn't, and it will not happen for another 5 billion years.

Paul

:) :) :)

We will not be here anyway...............

don't hold your breath

Ethnikos

8th July 2009, 07:03 PM

More importantly, how did you know to watch that spot, at that time?That's a good question. You need to think of the Hezarkhani video, the one that was taken from the top deck on a ferry boat tied up at the sea wall at Battery Park. It shows a plane flying to the left of straight above and hits the South Tower of the WTC. That's the same view you get that the still comes from with the famous "face of Satan", by a woman who was on the same boat, with a still camera. The boat was parked a few feet south of the WWII memorial. A Russian guy in a Cessna was flying past the towers right when the second plane hit, and you can see the boat as he goes past towards the Narrows, and looks back at Manhattan.
You might want to look at a map of the area in order to visualize what is going on. To the South of the WWII memorial, in Battery Park, is the Coast Guard Station. The tv camera, that I was watching the feed from, was in front of that station. It looked over towards Brooklyn and you can see the jetties where the big ferries pull into a covered area. So, at this point, the camera was looking in the opposite direction from the burning North Tower. It was scanning the horizon as if it was watching for a second plane. It slowly moved from Brooklyn to Governor's Island and then the Verrazano bridge then Staten Island. It finally picked up what it was looking for and zoomed in on a plane coming straight towards the camera. It followed it as it got closer and then passed at a very high angle above the camera. It looked to me that the plane was going to fly right up the hudson, but it stopped turning and straightened up and them boom, into the tower.
This was not me doing anything. Someone knew to be at this spot to watch for another plane. I was watching because I realized where the camera was and knew it was a hell of a lot closer to the action that any other feeds. I had no idea there would be a second plane.
My point of the story is that for some reason, I saw the real thing as it happened that was zoomed in enough to look into the windows. It was not the plane that is claimed to have hit the building. What the "main stream media" said, and continues to say, is a lie. That is why I do not trust them, because they are co-opted in order to be a propaganda mouthpiece.
This is why I said Armageddon will not be televised, at least in a way where we will see it coming before it is too late to do anything about. I am not writing this in order to tell people when to expect the "Last Days" because I think it has already started. Pre-tribbers need to wake up from the sleep of thinking they are not going to be around for it. It's too late, and you are still here.

Ethnikos

8th July 2009, 07:21 PM

Point #1: Why would the federal govenment want to do this?Tests. The military is allowed to test their theories on the general population. If you do not like it, write a letter to your congressman and Senator.
Point #2: What actual evidence do you have for this accusation - other than Deagle's claims?Here's a link to an article about death education at Columbine. http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=16142
Point #3: If such evidence exists, why hasn't some whistle-blower simply dumped onto the Internet? That is what Dr. Deagle does, listen to whistleblowes and talk about that information on his show. He is good about not revealing his sources. If you post stuff on the internet, that is not exactly anonymous, at least to the NSA.

Ethnikos

8th July 2009, 07:33 PM

I see we have a special conspiracy theory here:
To summarize:
The rapture will happen, but don't know when.
We are post tribulation.
The evidence for being post tribulation include all conflicts and conflicts that were avoided. Any future conflict that happens proves this point further and any future conflict that is avoided also proves this point.
Did I miss anything?My problem is with people who think they know when the rapture will happen. The reason for my problem is that, if you think you will avoid all the bad things coming on the world, it is no concern of theirs, since the rapture will occur before the "Tribulation" begins.
Your analysis should say, not "post tribulation", but maybe post pre-tribulation, meaning the tribulation has begun.
If there are any pre-tribulation rapture advocates reading this forum, go ahead and correct me if I am wrong about what you believe. I have always thought pre-tribulation means before the tribulation.

Paulhoff

8th July 2009, 07:41 PM

My problem is with people who think they know when the rapture will happen.
My problem is that anyone thinks that BS story is even real to begin with.

Paul

:) :) :)

paximperium

8th July 2009, 09:12 PM

Tests. The military is allowed to test their theories on the general population. That is the dumbest reasoning I have ever heard.

If you do not like it, write a letter to your congressman and Senator.
Why would I want to sound like an insane lunatic?

Here's a link to an article about death education at Columbine. http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=16142
So to support your hearsay, you post another hearsay article?

That is what Dr. Deagle does, listen to whistleblowes and talk about that information on his show. He is good about not revealing his sources. If you post stuff on the internet, that is not exactly anonymous, at least to the NSA.Translation: Deagle can make up anything he wants and never has to provide evidence because he is protecting his imaginary sources.

paximperium

8th July 2009, 09:13 PM

My problem is with people who think they know when the rapture will happen. My problem is with people who believe in this made-up fantasy from misreading the Bible.

TimCallahan

9th July 2009, 02:14 AM

Tests. The military is allowed to test their theories on the general population. If you do not like it, write a letter to your congressman and Senator.
Here's a link to an article about death education at Columbine. http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=16142
That is what Dr. Deagle does, listen to whistleblowes and talk about that information on his show. He is good about not revealing his sources. If you post stuff on the internet, that is not exactly anonymous, at least to the NSA.

1. Your assertion that "The military is allowed to test their theories on the general population" could be based on some situations in which the Navy, for example, released a cold virus in the San Francisco Bay area. This is a well documented incident. What's your documentation that the military deliberately set up the two killers at Columbine?

2. As to the article about death education at Columbine in the link at World Net Daily, Dr. Samuel L. Blumenfeld, in an EDITORIAL is critical of death education, which deals with such things as grief counciling. He blames death education for an attempted suicide of a girl attending Columbine. That in itself is a bit questionable, since we don't know from his editorial what other foctors led to her suicide attempt. Then he says "God knows what equally crazy thoughts were put into the heads of the killers at Columbine." There is really no foundation for Blumenfeld's insinuation that teaching about death and grief counciling is responsible for the actions of the two killers. So there is very little substance here. The editorial is a bit suspect, since Blumenfled cites Christian Dominionist R. J. Rushdoony as a credible source.

Out of this unsupported editorial attack on death education you have constructed an entirely bizarre conspiracy involving law enfocement officers deliberately delaying intervention so the killers could complete their attack. Your reasoning is warped.

3. As to Deagle's so-called whistle-blowing, let me compare and contrast it with the Pentagon Papers and Watergate. Elridge actually published government papers. Woodward and Burnstein actually found the "smoking gun" of the Watergate break-in. In contrast, Deagle has nothing but his Jesuit reptile-aliens and all that other unsubstantiated crap.

Ethnikos

9th July 2009, 02:42 AM

1. What's your documentation that the military deliberately set up the two killers at Columbine?

2. Out of this unsupported editorial attack on death education you have constructed an entirely bizarre conspiracy involving law enfocement officers deliberately delaying intervention so the killers could complete their attack. Your reasoning is warped.
1. I have heard a lot of stuff about it from Alex Jones over the last 10 years but can not really give you specifics other than there were a bunch of gov. paid people who were military or intelligence types working in the school.
2.That story was something you brought up, from some anti-deagle site or something. It is not any theory I made up. I just was supplying info about what Deagle said, that I had heard myself. I have heard other talk-show hosts discuss it, but I am no expert on it.
One thing I heard recently that I thought was very interesting was the two kid's parents all worked in intelligence. That does not prove anything but I have heard a lot about people who were subjected to mind control, have parents involved in intelligence.

Agatha

9th July 2009, 03:10 AM

1. I have heard a lot of stuff about it from Alex Jones over the last 10 years but can not really give you specifics other than there were a bunch of gov. paid people who were military or intelligence types working in the school.
2.That story was something you brought up, from some anti-deagle site or something. It is not any theory I made up. I just was supplying info about what Deagle said, that I had heard myself. I have heard other talk-show hosts discuss it, but I am no expert on it.
One thing I heard recently that I thought was very interesting was the two kid's parents all worked in intelligence. That does not prove anything but I have heard a lot about people who were subjected to mind control, have parents involved in intelligence.

Alex Jones is a proven liar on many issues, it might not be sensible to take all that he says as truth.

Harris's and Klebold's parents did/do not work in "intelligence" according to the Wiki article on them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold Eric's father, Wayne Harris, was a [retired] U.S. Air Force transport pilot. His mother, Katherine Ann Poole, was a homemaker.
<snip> Thomas Klebold ran a small real estate business from home, while Susan Klebold worked as an employment counselor.
Whilst I don't take Wiki as gospel, do you have any actual evidence that a) their parents worked in intelligence or b) that even if this were the case, this had anything to do with their crime?

Ethnikos

9th July 2009, 06:23 AM

Alex Jones is a proven liar on many issues, it might not be sensible to take all that he says as truth.This thing about the parents was from someone who was a guest on a radio show, probably Deagle's. I will have to check to see who that was. It was only a couple of days ago, so I should be able to find out who it was. Whoever the host was, should have caught the error and corrected it, instead of just letting it go. Thanks for finding that.

Foster Zygote

9th July 2009, 06:47 AM

That's a good question. You need to think of the Hezarkhani video, the one that was taken from the top deck on a ferry boat tied up at the sea wall at Battery Park. It shows a plane flying to the left of straight above and hits the South Tower of the WTC. That's the same view you get that the still comes from with the famous "face of Satan", by a woman who was on the same boat, with a still camera. The boat was parked a few feet south of the WWII memorial. A Russian guy in a Cessna was flying past the towers right when the second plane hit, and you can see the boat as he goes past towards the Narrows, and looks back at Manhattan.
You might want to look at a map of the area in order to visualize what is going on. To the South of the WWII memorial, in Battery Park, is the Coast Guard Station. The tv camera, that I was watching the feed from, was in front of that station. It looked over towards Brooklyn and you can see the jetties where the big ferries pull into a covered area. So, at this point, the camera was looking in the opposite direction from the burning North Tower. It was scanning the horizon as if it was watching for a second plane. It slowly moved from Brooklyn to Governor's Island and then the Verrazano bridge then Staten Island. It finally picked up what it was looking for and zoomed in on a plane coming straight towards the camera. It followed it as it got closer and then passed at a very high angle above the camera. It looked to me that the plane was going to fly right up the hudson, but it stopped turning and straightened up and them boom, into the tower.
This was not me doing anything. Someone knew to be at this spot to watch for another plane. I was watching because I realized where the camera was and knew it was a hell of a lot closer to the action that any other feeds. I had no idea there would be a second plane.
My point of the story is that for some reason, I saw the real thing as it happened that was zoomed in enough to look into the windows. It was not the plane that is claimed to have hit the building. What the "main stream media" said, and continues to say, is a lie. That is why I do not trust them, because they are co-opted in order to be a propaganda mouthpiece.
This is why I said Armageddon will not be televised, at least in a way where we will see it coming before it is too late to do anything about. I am not writing this in order to tell people when to expect the "Last Days" because I think it has already started. Pre-tribbers need to wake up from the sleep of thinking they are not going to be around for it. It's too late, and you are still here.
Nowhere in the above post do you answer my question: How did you access these images? You've claimed that it's easy if you know how. So how did you do it?

Foster Zygote

9th July 2009, 06:50 AM

He [Deagle] is good about not revealing his sources.
So, if he is a pathological liar, he could just be making it all up.

TimCallahan

9th July 2009, 03:22 PM

One thing I heard recently that I thought was very interesting was the two kid's parents all worked in intelligence. That does not prove anything but I have heard a lot about people who were subjected to mind control, have parents involved in intelligence.

Well, no. Eric Harris' father was a U.S. Air Force transport pilot. His mother was a homemaker. Dylan Klebold's father ran a small real estate busines. His mother was an employment counselor. Of course, you may well assert that these were just covers for their REAL work as intelligence agents for the Jesuit reptile space-aliens; but the burden o proof is on you if you still assert they worked in intelligence.

You know, Ethnikos, what I find really interesting? With you EVERYTHING is a conspiracy. Is there any major aspect of politics or economics the news of which you accept as being accurate? Do you see anything that happens in those two fields as NOT being a front for a conspiracy?

TimCallahan

10th July 2009, 11:44 AM

One other point, Ehnikos: If July 15 comes and goes without Israeli airstrike on an Iranian nuclear reactor, will you admit to being wrong?

Ethnikos

10th July 2009, 12:49 PM

One other point, Ehnikos: If July 15 comes and goes without Israeli airstrike on an Iranian nuclear reactor, will you admit to being wrong?Just to answer the other above post by you, I do not insist on the parents thing. I just heard it the other day on one of these radio shows I listen to. They are all conspiracy shows that I listen to, so that is a reason why I see conspiracies. I do not have to make them up, when several are offered up every day.
As for the Attack, that should be tomorrow. This comes from a show from Aug. 19,2008 Hour 2, 4 min. into the show (Best of the Best Q-Files, to download pod-cast) by Steve Quayle interviewing David Flynn. He wrote an Amazon best seller called the Temple in the Center of Time.
1260 days from the beginning of the tribulation to middle of the seven years, if you count backwards from dec. 21, 2012 you come up with July 11, 09. It might be local time, so It might start happening tonight.
Of course I do not think it is real, since I think it already started. The people who would be given the authority to make a date for a war would not be of God. They would be following the timeline given to them by Lucifer, who might be working off the 2012 date. They might just follow what they think is right, regardless of what God's plan is.
I moved the date back, before, because I was not sure where Obama was going to be when. So I want to move it up to tomorrow.

Foster Zygote

10th July 2009, 08:28 PM

I moved the date back, before, because I was not sure where Obama was going to be when. So I want to move it up to tomorrow.

That's OK, I'm sure you'll move it back again on Sunday.

Ethnikos

10th July 2009, 09:09 PM

That's OK, I'm sure you'll move it back again on Sunday.According to the timeline I am looking at, the 11th is the last likely day, from a group of days starting from the fourth.
The people who start wars are part of a death cult who think they obtain power from Lucifer by making sacrifices, otherwise known as murder. They progressively kill more people in each sacrifice in order to get power to do the next one. The final sacrifice will be before or on Dec. 21, 2012. What the Illuminati think they will get in return from Lucifer is resurrection after a global natural disaster predicted for 2012.
God has a prophecy about the tribulation that concerns seven years. The seven is divided by two. We do not know the exact dates for God's plan, but the followers of Lucifer believe they have their master's plan figured out. Lucifer mimics God's plan, so they will make use of their half of seven to get power for their next move at the end of it. Something like that. You have to listen to the pod-cast. They guy spent a lot more time studying the subject than I would care to. I do agree with his general principles, so I would say his conclusions are probably as good as anyone's. Anyway, these people who do these things like to play games with dates and 7-11 might be a fun one for them. If nothing happens, then I give up trying to figure out when the enemy to mankind is going to hit next. It's a small group of people who think they are special and would be happy to kill everyone else on the planet if they could live because of it.

Paulhoff

11th July 2009, 05:40 AM

According to the timeline I am looking at, the 11th is the last likely day,.............
Not another one, want makes them think they know anything..........

Paul

:) :) :)

TimCallahan

11th July 2009, 12:25 PM

[QUOTE=Ethnikos;4892653] I just heard it the other day on one of these radio shows I listen to. They are all conspiracy shows that I listen to, so that is a reason why I see conspiracies. I do not have to make them up, when several are offered up every day. . . . As for the Attack, that should be tomorrow.[QUOTE]

So, why do you exclusively listen to conspiracy shows? Did it ever occur to you that they might be wrong? As to the attack, if it doesn't happen tomorrow, will you admit that you were wrong?

paximperium

11th July 2009, 12:45 PM

It's tomorrow...still no attack.

Elizabeth I

11th July 2009, 03:26 PM

It's nearly 5:30 p.m. CDT on Saturday, July 11, and still no Armageddon.

Roadtoad

11th July 2009, 04:41 PM

Ethnikos is welcome to his armageddon.

paximperium

11th July 2009, 04:44 PM

I think he is currently in his backyard bunker.

joobz

11th July 2009, 06:41 PM

Perhaps he's busy unbolting the goalposts?

Foster Zygote

11th July 2009, 08:52 PM

Perhaps he's busy unbolting the goalposts?

Shades of David Jay Jordan.

Ethnikos

11th July 2009, 09:27 PM

Shades of David Jay Jordan.
I don't notice anything startling in the news.
To me, it blows the theory of the world ending on Dec. 21, 2012.
There should be certain things happening at the 3 1/2 year mark, according to the Bible, before the end.
So this Mayan calender theory can not be right.

Toke

11th July 2009, 11:35 PM

How did the mayans get hold of a bible?

Wally

12th July 2009, 04:32 AM

How did the mayans get hold of a bible?

Gideons?

paximperium

12th July 2009, 05:02 AM

Foster Zygote

12th July 2009, 06:46 AM

Toke

12th July 2009, 08:02 AM

Gideons?

Guess so, those guys get everywhere:D

TimCallahan

12th July 2009, 09:56 AM

I don't notice anything startling in the news.
To me, it blows the theory of the world ending on Dec. 21, 2012.
There should be certain things happening at the 3 1/2 year mark, according to the Bible, before the end.
So this Mayan calender theory can not be right.

Okay, so does this mean you're admitting that the prediction of an Israeli airstrike on a nuclear reactor in Iran was wrong? If so, will you consider that all the other stuff might well be wrong as well? Particularly considering the many failed end-times predictions in the past, would you be willing to consider that the supposed predictions in Daniel and Revelation might better be interpreted symbolically?

joobz

12th July 2009, 10:17 AM

I don't notice anything startling in the news.
To me, it blows the theory of the world ending on Dec. 21, 2012.
There should be certain things happening at the 3 1/2 year mark, according to the Bible, before the end.
So this Mayan calender theory can not be right.
I agree with FZ. This is an honest answerr and one that I respect.

Now,the funny thing about apocalyptic thinking is that it is almost certain to be one day true. Life on earth will end when the sun dies, which it one day will. The human race may die out before then if a metor hits, or a massive volcano occurs, or some other calamity. If we haven't mastered space colonization, the human race WILL die out.

But, this fact does not substantiate the doomsday theorists fantasies. They are just that, and little is to be gained in such self-flaggelating thinking.

TimCallahan

12th July 2009, 01:29 PM

Now,the funny thing about apocalyptic thinking is that it is almost certain to be one day true. . . .
But, this fact does not substantiate the doomsday theorists fantasies. They are just that, and little is to be gained in such self-flaggelating thinking.

Even the airstrike, had it happened, would be difficult to work into an apocalyptic scenario. Consider that in 1981 the Israelis launched a pre-emptive airstrike at the nuclear reactor in Osirak, Iraq, and in 2007 they launched a similar strike against a reactor being built at al-Kibar in Syria.

Of course, it would have been impressive if you could have predicted the date of such a strike. Tell me, Ethnikos, did any of your prediction come from Dr. Deagle? If so, are you prepared to shed him?

Fronzel

12th July 2009, 11:55 PM

Gideons?

When did the Mormons come to the Americas from Israel? Maybe they traded some of their guns for one.

Ethnikos

13th July 2009, 04:16 PM

Okay, so does this mean you're admitting that the prediction of an Israeli airstrike on a nuclear reactor in Iran was wrong? If so, will you consider that all the other stuff might well be wrong as well? Particularly considering the many failed end-times predictions in the past, would you be willing to consider that the supposed predictions in Daniel and Revelation might better be interpreted symbolically?A symbolic Armageddon and a symbolic Gog and Magog. We are in it. Like I said, Armageddon will not be televised.
What I was trying to do was make use of the attempt by some of forcing the hand of God. They have these smart calculations that have special significance for certain dates. The wise men make predictions and pick auspicious days for certain undertakings. I do not have to believe them, but if they do, they are likely to pull some outrageous stunts to make some esoteric point. If it was possible to read their minds, it may not come as such a shock when something does happen.
My prediction for the timing of a strike on the Iranian facilities was obviously wrong. It is apparently something hotly debated and concerned about, by the powers, as in the G8 summit a few days ago. Because it is being strongly questioned, that should give us some hope that it will not happen. I think cooler heads prevailed and called it off.

Ethnikos

13th July 2009, 04:41 PM

Even the airstrike, had it happened, would be difficult to work into an apocalyptic scenario. Consider that in 1981 the Israelis launched a pre-emptive airstrike at the nuclear reactor in Osirak, Iraq, and in 2007 they launched a similar strike against a reactor being built at al-Kibar in Syria.What had me so concerned was this idea of using Geogia as a base for launching an attack.

Of course, it would have been impressive if you could have predicted the date of such a strike. Tell me, Ethnikos, did any of your prediction come from Dr. Deagle? If so, are you prepared to shed him?He seemed to have backed off on his fear mongering over Georgia, as it became evident that Russia was not going to put up with such foolishness. Even the other guy, David Flynn, I was quoting seems to have regretted making predictions about what was going to happen on the eleventh. When you pay attention to such people, they are likely to leave you on your own, when it comes down to it.
Like I said, I am not going to jump on the 2012 doomsday bandwagon because it already failed the test, as far as I am concerned.

six7s

13th July 2009, 04:54 PM

My prediction for the timing of a strike on the Iranian facilities was obviously wrong.@Ethnikos:
Have ANY of your predictions been obviously correct?

joobz

13th July 2009, 05:07 PM

A symbolic Armageddon and a symbolic Gog and Magog. We are in it. Like I said, Armageddon will not be televised.
So, regardless of what actually happens (e.g., reality), you believe what you believe and facts won't change that.

Too bad.

Ethnikos

13th July 2009, 11:10 PM

So, regardless of what actually happens (e.g., reality), you believe what you believe and facts won't change that.
Too bad.There is a spiritual Battle for the souls of men.

rikzilla

13th July 2009, 11:21 PM

There is a spiritual Battle for the souls of men.

Well there's a sentence that has no rational meaning whatsoever.

When your imaginary battle to win imaginary things is over...how will you know
if you've lost?

-z

TimCallahan

13th July 2009, 11:53 PM

There is a spiritual Battle for the souls of men.

Are you referring to the spiritual warfare references in Ephesians 6? If so, you may want to look atthe debate I'm having on that subject with Kurious Kathy on the thread about the Nightline show on "Does Satan Exist?"

Monster Machine

14th July 2009, 07:57 AM

I think he's read one too many Frank Perretti books.

Monster

dafydd

14th July 2009, 10:32 AM

Ethnikos is welcome to his armageddon.

Armageddon out of here.What a dingbat Ethnikos is.

joobz

14th July 2009, 10:53 AM

There is a spiritual Battle for the souls of men.
You were blatantly and demonstrably wrong about your Nuclear Bomb prediction.

Why should I believe you regarding this?

TimCallahan

14th July 2009, 04:04 PM

Here's a great idea, Ethnikos. Since the prophecy thing doesn't seem to be working out, concentrate of dealing, as decisively as is possible, with problems as they come up in the day to day arena. Remember: Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

MIKILLINI

14th July 2009, 04:35 PM

Wow Ethnikos, you really are beguiled by conspiracy nuts like Deagle and Jones.

Check out the quote in My sig.

Ethnikos

14th July 2009, 09:57 PM

Armageddon out of here.What a dingbat Ethnikos is. The actual physical Armageddon is almost irrelevant. The world will already be judged at that point. God putting a stop to war by killing the armies is merely the execution of the judgement. The fate of the souls alive on the planet will have already been decided.
The only use for talking about Armageddon is to have people warned ahead of time. There is a certain period of time before the day of doom that will be a wake up for those who will respond. I do not think it is going to be a rapture of the Christians. Since Armageddon is a war, I figured it made sense that the thing alerting us to it would be another war, one that would lead to, a few years later, the ultimate war.
I will have to go back and do some study to see what it is exactly. It calls it the two witnesses in Revelation but it is debatable as to what, or who, that is. I will be sure to post it somewhere when I find out a good answer.
I got in a hurry on the July 11 thing to figure out what may or may not happen, because it was coming up fast. The date is only relevant if you start with the premise that Dec. 21, 2012 is something that correlates with a prophecy in the Bible. David Flynn presented a fairly convincing argument that it just may be. I have previously thought that it did not. There are people jumping on it and writing books about 2012 and seem to think it might be the end. I was listening to Coast to Coast not very long ago and there was a scientist on who was saying all this Mayan calender stuff people are running with is all based on his original research. He said they are all wrong because 2012 is just the end of the ninth cycle, out of thirteen cycles. Of course there are books to be sold, so forget that guy, right?

TimCallahan

15th July 2009, 12:08 PM

dafydd

16th July 2009, 03:30 PM

The actual physical Armageddon is almost irrelevant. The world will already be judged at that point. God putting a stop to war by killing the armies is merely the execution of the judgement. The fate of the souls alive on the planet will have already been decided.
The only use for talking about Armageddon is to have people warned ahead of time. There is a certain period of time before the day of doom that will be a wake up for those who will respond. I do not think it is going to be a rapture of the Christians. Since Armageddon is a war, I figured it made sense that the thing alerting us to it would be another war, one that would lead to, a few years later, the ultimate war.
I will have to go back and do some study to see what it is exactly. It calls it the two witnesses in Revelation but it is debatable as to what, or who, that is. I will be sure to post it somewhere when I find out a good answer.
I got in a hurry on the July 11 thing to figure out what may or may not happen, because it was coming up fast. The date is only relevant if you start with the premise that Dec. 21, 2012 is something that correlates with a prophecy in the Bible. David Flynn presented a fairly convincing argument that it just may be. I have previously thought that it did not. There are people jumping on it and writing books about 2012 and seem to think it might be the end. I was listening to Coast to Coast not very long ago and there was a scientist on who was saying all this Mayan calender stuff people are running with is all based on his original research. He said they are all wrong because 2012 is just the end of the ninth cycle, out of thirteen cycles. Of course there are books to be sold, so forget that guy, right?

Boys and girls,this is either a loony or a troll.Don't waste your time.

Roadtoad

16th July 2009, 05:10 PM

Boys and girls,this is either a loony or a troll.Don't waste your time.

True enough, but there's genuine value in analyzing and learning the mindset of people like Ethnikos. If nothing else, that can be entertaining, as well as educational.

Elizabeth I

16th July 2009, 06:16 PM

Boys and girls,this is either a loony or a troll.Don't waste your time.

Fallacy of the excluded middle. :p

Someone could be both loony and a troll.

dropzone

16th July 2009, 08:58 PM

If nothing else, that can be entertaining, as well as educational.Emphasis on the conjunction, labored as it may be. ;)

Ethnikos

16th July 2009, 11:52 PM

We come back to the fact that Revelation states at its outset that the visions in it deal with "what must soon take place." Because that totally deflates any attempt to set its prophecies in the twentieth - oops! now its the twentyfirst - century, you say you're retranslating those verses.I have not forgotten that. I have not worked on it for a couple days because I have been busy doing some editing, which is my normal occupation.
The first three verses, I think is not really a part of the Book, but was an attachment to it, by John to explain how he was made aware of what was going to happen right away.
As to the 2012 nonsense, how can a Mayan prophecy have any relevance for a Christian like you?It seems to be in agreement with an observable astronomical phenomenon. What to make of that is different. Like I said, as far as I am concerned, we are about nine months into the tribulation. That has nothing to do with 2012 but to the restraints on the forces of destruction being removed.
I had a theory that the people who represent the forces of evil do believe in astrology, and any other pseudo-science they can put to use, to determine auspicious days to commit certain parts of their plans into action. An example would be 8808 for the Olympics, that also was a nice time for for the attack against the ethnic Russians living in Georgia. I have to conclude that my theory about July 11 was flawed, and it could be illustrated by your question, just turned around. Why would the leaders of the forces of Satan use a time period taken from the Bible? Well, that comes from how I was taught, that Satan mimics Jesus. Let's say Jesus' ministry was three and a half years. The logic is that Satan makes what he thinks is a good prediction of when the end might happen, and his twisted mind compels him to make use of the three and a half years before that date to set up his rule of the antichrist. It become Satan's answer to what Jesus did and is a way of mocking God.
So, with this concept already planted in my mind, looking at events happening and what appears to be events soon to happen, I could pull up a prediction of my own to show what is likely for what Satan will do. In this case, it seems to have been an exercise in futility.

Seren_

17th July 2009, 12:48 AM

It seems to be in agreement with an observable astronomical phenomenon.

Would you care to explain precisely what phenomenon you are referring to ?

Every astronomy sites (and not astrology) I have read regarding 2012 claims that there is nothing extraordinary happening this year.

The easiest way to check by yourself is to download a free astronomy application, set the date to 2012, December the 21st and see how unremarkable it is.

TimCallahan

17th July 2009, 07:22 AM

TimCallahan

26th July 2009, 10:02 AM

[QUOTE=Ethnikos;4913207]I have not forgotten that. I have not worked on it for a couple days because I have been busy doing some editing, which is my normal occupation.
The first three verses, I think is not really a part of the Book, but was an attachment to it, by John to explain how he was made aware of what was going to happen right away. [QUOTE]

And your reason for making this assumption about the first three verses of Revelation is . . . ?

Well, Ethnikos, here it is July 26th., almost 10 days since I post my question regarding why you think that the first three verses of Revelation really aren't part of the book. I'd really like to hear your reasoning. Just as a point of reference, here are the verses in question (Rev. 1:1 - 3, emphasis added):

THe revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of Gd and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is he who reads aloud the words of the prophecy and blessed are those who hear, and whi keep what is writen therein; for the time is near.

It seems to me that the only reason you have decided that Rev. 1:1 - 3 is not really part of the book is to be found in those parts I have italicized; because, if you had to accept them as part of the book, you wold have to agree that (1) it's a failed prophecy and (2) that it can't beused to suppor end-time scenarios in the twentyfirst century.

By the way, if the text of the Bible has such errors as the one you assert for Rev. 1:1 - 3, as well as the translation error you claim for Gen. 3:16, how can anyone accept it as the inspired word of God?