Palm reading, what's the harm?

[Eddie Dane]

My mother gave an "just ladies" party on her birthday.

She has woo interests and some beliefs.

For the occasion she hired a palm reader and all the ladies had their palm read.

My wife is sceptical, but still enjoyed it. I had the impression that she wanted to believe in the reading. He mostly did a description of peoples character, in a positive sense. So you'd think a lot of the harm that you get from psychics is avoided.

My wife apparently has a good love line (he she got me, what do you expect?) She loves colour and is creative. Wow.

Many ladies found the reading useful. One friend remarked that "it gave her a lot to think about". Mind you, she's a psychologist that I sometimes consult.

Harmless fun right? What could go wrong?

My mothers cleaning lady (is that the term?), who has been working for her since the mid-eighties also had her palm read.
She's a sweet person and we're all very fond of her. She also dresses in a way that she didn't look out of place amongst the rest of the crowd, mostly professional women with well paying office jobs.

So he told her all about all her talents and potential.

She remarked to my mother that she'd been really down since the reading and can't stop thinking about how she wasted her life just doing simple work. And how she'll never be able to change that (she's in her late fifties).

I realise this is not a Sylvia Brown type disaster, but I feel bad for her.
And what can one possibly say to her? "No, don't worry. That guy is full of it. You really have no talents at all, so don't worry about it"?

I'll conclude by saying that the guy seems to really believe in his abilities. He's a serious classical musician and conductor. I don't think he needs the money, but he does his palm reading stuff even on a local market.

[MarekM]

My ex-girlfriend had her palms read in high school by one of her teachers. She really looked up to this guy and trusted that what he was doing was real and something could be determined by reading palms. He ended up telling her that she would be very happy for a few years, but the rest of her life would be very sad. When she told me this, I was shocked that a teacher would tell a student such a thing. As a high school teacher myself, I found this to be not only incredibly unprofessional, but immoral.

Unfortunately, she took this "prediction" to heart and based a lot of her life decisions off of it. It was sad to see, and I tried to convince her otherwise, but to no avail. She figured that one way this prediction would come to pass is through me dying at a young age. So she was absolutely against me doing any "dangerous" activities such as sky-diving, etc. While this irrationality didn't end our relationship, it was certainly a contributing factor.

So I'll agree with you and say that there is certainly a risk of harm, especially to impressionable people.

[Ashles]

I used to work in a holistic healing centre.

One of the 'readers' was a palmist, a sporty young guy.

He freely admitted he thought it was bollocks, he only did it to meet girls.

So girls would come to the shop and pay money to have a guy hold their hand and make stuff up purely in order to try and get them into bed.


I don't know if that example constitutes harm. It certainly constitutes a fairly large dose of cynicism if not outright fraud.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I've told this story a few times before on the forum but I was once told by a palm reader, at 15 years old, that I'd never get married, that I'd never become wealthy but that I'd live "comfortably", that I'd have a job requiring a uniform and that I'd have two children out of wedlock.

This is an unacceptable thing to ever tell a 15-year-old girl. In fact, even if you somehow could know that a teenager would end up as a single mother, you would do better to not tell her so.

Why this woman thought this up is beyond me. I was a little shy and dorky at that age- maybe she picked up on that when she said I'd be an old maid.

I think I was wearing a miniskirt that day; maybe that's where the "two illegitimate children" thing came out of.

Or maybe she simply had been telling every woman that came in that she'd get married and have three children and a nice house and wanted to mix things up a little. Give one lady two stepchildren, another an adopted kid, another a divorce, another a domestic partnership, tell someone else they'd have two marriages. Some variety to keep things realistic.

Or maybe she saw I was reluctant to pay her and that my friend (who had dragged me there) wasn't, since my friend got a much more positive reading.

(I'm still unmarried and have no children. I have never had a job requiring a uniform. I have never had a "domestic partnership" and, in fact, have never "lived with" anyone for so much as a day.)

[Bikewer]

It's not unusual for these people to move from such simple "readings" to more specific information as a relationship develops. Frequently fraud is the result. Our department handled several of these with a local "reader".
The client at some point would be told they had a dreadful illness, usually cancer. The "cure" involved a spirit offering of hundreds or thousands of dollars, usually buried in a consecrated place inside the body of a chicken or some such nonsense.

We actually worked one of these, waiting for the reader's son to show up with a shovel...

[jasonpatterson]

It seems to me that the general spreading of misinformation and magical thinking is harmful in and of itself. Whether it's palm reading that costs you $20 or a belief in ghosts that is free, this is good for nothing.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Some stranger telling you things about your life- on matters of critical importance- always carries potential damage.

When the basis of this is a set of cards- some patterns and numbers printed on a sheet of paper!- well, it doesn't take much imagination to see how this can be very harmful.

That people would make decisions on finance, marriage, children, relationships, friendships, education or any other field of such weight based on a small piece of paper and the word of someone who knows nothing about you...!

[kurious_kathy]

My mother gave an "just ladies" party on her birthday.

She has woo interests and some beliefs.

For the occasion she hired a palm reader and all the ladies had their palm read.

My wife is sceptical, but still enjoyed it. I had the impression that she wanted to believe in the reading. He mostly did a description of peoples character, in a positive sense. So you'd think a lot of the harm that you get from psychics is avoided.

My wife apparently has a good love line (he she got me, what do you expect?) She loves colour and is creative. Wow.

Many ladies found the reading useful. One friend remarked that "it gave her a lot to think about". Mind you, she's a psychologist that I sometimes consult.

Harmless fun right? What could go wrong?

My mothers cleaning lady (is that the term?), who has been working for her since the mid-eighties also had her palm read.
She's a sweet person and we're all very fond of her. She also dresses in a way that she didn't look out of place amongst the rest of the crowd, mostly professional women with well paying office jobs.

So he told her all about all her talents and potential.

She remarked to my mother that she'd been really down since the reading and can't stop thinking about how she wasted her life just doing simple work. And how she'll never be able to change that (she's in her late fifties).

I realise this is not a Sylvia Brown type disaster, but I feel bad for her.
And what can one possibly say to her? "No, don't worry. That guy is full of it. You really have no talents at all, so don't worry about it"?

I'll conclude by saying that the guy seems to really believe in his abilities. He's a serious classical musician and conductor. I don't think he needs the money, but he does his palm reading stuff even on a local market.

Well beforeI became a born again Christian I dabbled in this kind of New Age stuff and now I know it is of the occult which God has warned us in the Bible to stay away from because it is so harmful. Even though most of the people who do palm readings I now consider just plain charletons, I do believe some do get their info from demons who actually know people and relate that info through mediums and such. Perhaps even some of these people who do palm readings are possessed themselves but it's nothing anyone should dablle with. I learned it the hard way so now I speak out about these things. Very much considered a form of witchcraft and socery which all should stay away from. Wish I knew then what I know now, nobody needs to be curious about this stuff, it's all bad stuff, doctrine of demons which have hurt many and led many astray.

[SusanB-M1]

I found palmistry quite interesting when I was young, read quite a bit about the subject and had fun looking at people's hands. The question that arises, though, is how is it that the lines on hands can be so very different? I would be interested to hear opinions on this. I think I'll google it too.

[Reeco]

Well beforeI became a born again Christian I dabbled in this kind of New Age stuff and now I know it is of the occult which God has warned us in the Bible to stay away from because it is so harmful. Even though most of the people who do palm readings I now consider just plain charletons, I do believe some do get their info from demons who actually know people and relate that info through mediums and such. Perhaps even some of these people who do palm readings are possessed themselves but it's nothing anyone should dablle with. I learned it the hard way so now I speak out about these things. Very much considered a form of witchcraft and socery which all should stay away from. Wish I knew then what I know now, nobody needs to be curious about this stuff, it's all bad stuff, doctrine of demons which have hurt many and led many astray.

Would you say that palm reading has caused more or less harm than religion?

[Eddie Dane]

Reading character traits from a palm is less far fetched than reading the future.

Some genetic traits are linked. For instance: people with a crease in their earlobe have a relatively high chance of getting a heart disease.

But the mere concept of a "love line" is a-grade woo.

[Eddie Dane]

It's not unusual for these people to move from such simple "readings" to more specific information as a relationship develops. Frequently fraud is the result. Our department handled several of these with a local "reader".
The client at some point would be told they had a dreadful illness, usually cancer. The "cure" involved a spirit offering of hundreds or thousands of dollars, usually buried in a consecrated place inside the body of a chicken or some such nonsense.

We actually worked one of these, waiting for the reader's son to show up with a shovel...

I hear cases like this and it just makes my head explode.
Some lady was interviewed on Dutch TV. She hired some African Voodoo priest to get her boyfriend back. He came to her house to do a ritual and ended up leaving with her DVD player as an "offering to the gods".

I have no clue how to protect people like that from fraud.

And I say that as someone who once bought speakers out of the back of a van.

[Ashles]

I became a born again Christian I dabbled in this kind of stuff and now I know it is so harmful. Even though most of the people I now consider just plain charletons, I learned it the hard way so now I speak out about these things which all should stay away from. Wish I knew then what I know now, nobody needs to be curious about this stuff, it's all bad stuff, doctrine of demons which have hurt many and led many astray.
Fine words Kathy, fine words.

[MattusMaximus]

Here's the harm (http://whatstheharm.net/psychics.html)

[kurious_kathy]

Would you say that palm reading has caused more or less harm than religion?

I would say false religion is just as bad as it is called doctrine of demons too.
1 Timothy 4:1-10 says 1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
6If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed. 7Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 8For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

9This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance 10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.



But the occult is in a class of it's own as far as evil goes.
Lev. 20:27 " 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.' "

and then I'll add what Matt 7:15-16 says 15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

[skullerello]

K.K, aren't you supposed to be reading some books?! Get your sorry ass over to more pertinent threads...

[skullerello]

The harm is that woo is woo; I admit that while I used to entice nubile females by "reading" their palms, or encourage prospective cougers into sleeping away from their mates, it was all just "smoke and mirrors", (or gin & tonics) I had a hay-day back in Alameda being the palmestry-guy, or the tarro-card-guy. I gleaned all that information from you, ladies, which I used to feed back to you, ladies. It was all for the sex. I was a rogue, a charletan, and a complete fraud. Thanks for all the free drinks by the way.

[Eddie Dane]

The harm is that woo is woo; I admit that while I used to entice nubile females by "reading" their palms, or encourage prospective cougers into sleeping away from their mates, it was all just "smoke and mirrors", (or gin & tonics) I had a hay-day back in Alameda being the palmestry-guy, or the tarro-card-guy. I gleaned all that information from you, ladies, which I used to feed back to you, ladies. It was all for the sex. I was a rogue, a charletan, and a complete fraud. Thanks for all the free drinks by the way.

My mum will turn sixty-one next year. All her friends are roughly the same age.
I hear they're looking for a palmistry guy to liven up the party.

Interested?

[skullerello]

I don't believe I could do it anymore, I'm a completely different person from what I was then. Tho' the "willingness to con" is never far from my soul, I find it hard-pressed to put it into effect these days; I've lost the glib; I'm not the starving artist; I don't sit at the curb with a bottle of wine and a smoked chicken; I used to fantasize about getting back into that trade, but since I'm married, I seem to have lost the origional drive. My life sucks!

[kurious_kathy]

K.K, aren't you supposed to be reading some books?! Get your sorry ass over to more pertinent threads...
Well being delivered from the occult is part of my testimony to how Jesus can and does save people from evil. He forgave me for participating in these types of sins of my past and now I'm here to shine light to others on this subject. Stay away from the occult it's very bad!

[MattusMaximus]

This thread is starting to read like a Jack Chick tract :rolleyes:

[Akhenaten]

Well being delivered from the occult is part of my testimony to how Jesus can and does save people from evil. He forgave me for participating in these types of sins of my past and now I'm here to shine light to others on this subject. Stay away from the occult it's very bad!


You haven't been saved from the occult at all. You've just switched brands, and for that matter, you've foolishly switched to a more dangerous product. Palmistry will never cause a fraction of the harm your disgusting cult has.


The Aten will still shine for you though. Much more benevolent than your little god-thing.


Waenre

[Foolmewunz]

Maybe not in the way you're thinking, but I know that the bunko squad in NYC gets a lot of action from the palm readers because that's the innocent little come on for the bigger and more lucrative scams that are pulled in the traditional "gypsy" fortune teller parlors.

They lure them in with $5 or $10 palm readings and when they find a nice gullible soul, they hook into them for more and more.

[Akhenaten]

Yeah, the thin end of the wedge; I really hadn't considered that aspect.

Point taken and thank you.


Cheers

[Profwag]

But the occult is in a class of it's own as far as evil goes.
Lev. 20:27 " 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.' "



That's a good, healthy, Christian guide--go out and stone people to death. I can see why so many people want to cherish every word of that book. (Sarcasm intentional)

[kurious_kathy]

You haven't been saved from the occult at all. You've just switched brands, and for that matter, you've foolishly switched to a more dangerous product. Palmistry will never cause a fraction of the harm your disgusting cult has.


The Aten will still shine for you though. Much more benevolent than your little god-thing.


Waenre
Uh how is being delivered from hell bad? I'm redeemed by the blood Jesus shed for me.

[MattusMaximus]

Uh how is being delivered from hell bad? I'm redeemed by the blood Jesus shed for me.

That's funny... all I needed was this...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_774747f961415bb8c.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=11629)

[Akhenaten]

Uh how is being delivered from hell bad? I'm redeemed by the blood Jesus shed for me.


It's bad because hell doesn't exist.

It's bad because despite the fact of its non-existance, people like you are worried about ending up there.

It's bad because people like you not only believe in this non-existant place, but they seem to think everyone else needs to share their sick fantasy with them.

It's bad because in order to believe this rubbish it's necessary to ignore the reality of the world that you actualy live in.

It's bad because the usual method of getting people to share this delusion is to get them when they're young and brainwash them.

It's bad because you think the only way you can be saved from your non-existant fate in a non-existant place is to have some non-existant hebrew bleed all over you. That's not just bad - it's sick and twisted.

It's bad because all people have to do to escape this delusion is to go back in their minds to a point before anyone had taught them this evil, magical, malevolent and offensive superstitious bilge and start thinking again from there.


A bit of knowledge about the true nature of the Aten would help you with all these problems. May I send you a small booklet so that your salvation can begin immediately?


Cheers,

Waenre

[Tompet]

For instance: people with a crease in their earlobe have a relatively high chance of getting a heart disease.



Not necessarily true. Several studies have disproved a connection. I personally know several people with known heart disease who do not have creases, and a few who have creases, but no heart disease. I have a partial crease on one ear and was referred to a cardiologist because of heart palpitations. Got a clean bill of heart health, the palps were hormone related. I asked the cardio about the crease/heart disease link and he told me some of his patients have creases, some don't. He has 2 deep creases himself, but no heart disease.

[Yeah_Right]

Well being delivered from the occult is part of my testimony to how Jesus can and does save people from evil. He forgave me for participating in these types of sins of my past and now I'm here to shine light to others on this subject. Stay away from the occult it's very bad!

I intend to stay away from both Christianity and the Occult since both are absolute nonsense.

[Ashles]

Well being delivered from the occult is part of my testimony to how Jesus can and does save people from evil. He forgave me for participating in these types of sins of my past and now I'm here to shine light to others on this subject. Stay away from the occult it's very bad!
I don't know if you are up on the story of the Catholic Church in Ireland at the moment, but there are hundreds of children who probably wish they had been in the care of palmists rather than supposed Christians.

Appalling abuse (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8060788.stm) which has been covered up by the Church and a group called "Christian Briothers" has actually, incredibly "successfully sued the commission in 2004 to keep the identities of all of its members, dead or alive, unnamed in the report".

Why didn't Jesus save those children? He's very fickle isn't He? It appears peole could entrust themselves to Christianity only to have it turn its back on them.

[Lanzy]

KK, no one asked you about "false" anything. You added that word.

[Madalch]

KK, no one asked you about "false" anything. You added that word.
Oh, come on- is there any other kind?

[Locknar]

She remarked to my mother that she'd been really down since the reading and can't stop thinking about how she wasted her life just doing simple work. And how she'll never be able to change that (she's in her late fifties).

This is exactly the kind of harm that can happen. Sure, everyone SAYS "oh, I don't beleive."

But...you get a reading that touches a nerve, and that little voice in the back of the head starts in "see...I told you so!"

[borealys]

My friends and I used to hang out at a tea house that sometimes hosted fortune tellers. I remember one particularly bad one who, after telling one friend (who was a bit overweight) that she was insecure about her weight, and another (who had cat hair all over her sweater) that she was strongly attached to her pet cat, went on to tell me that I was considering plastic surgery.

I spent a lot of time staring at the mirror that night, trying to figure out what she thought was wrong with my face. The whole thing was particularly ridiculous in light of the fact that I'm not at all ugly, but she most definitely was.

[Ashles]

The whole thing was particularly ridiculous in light of the fact that I'm not at all ugly, but she most definitely was.
Sounds like in this instance the fiction was fuelling her own needs more than the people she was 'reading'.

"I am special. I have a secret talent. I can see special magic things other people can't. And I'll even make them doubt their own appearance. That will mean I'm prettier than them."

I worked in a holistic healing centre for early a year. During that time I met some of the most bitter and unpleasant people I have ever met. For suposedly 'spiritual' and 'sensitive' people, many of them turned out to be downright nasty. It seemed like some had turned to pretending to have imaginary powers to compensate for frustration with the reality of their own lives.

[Brattus]

I read my own palm. A lot!

[Sherman Bay]

I would say false religion is just as bad as it is called doctrine of demons too....and then I'll add what Matt 7:15-16 says 15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. How can I know that they are "false" prophets, as opposed to "true" prophets?

[Foolmewunz]

How can I know that they are "false" prophets, as opposed to "true" prophets?

Silly, the scripture tells you, right there.... they'll be dressed as sheep. So next time Sean The Sheep or LambChop or any of the supporting cast in Babe try to lure you into a temple, be satisfied that it's actually the work of the devil.

I suppose, by the process of elimination (because we're all supposed to take the Good Book literally - or is that litterally), that means that all prophets who don't come to you dressed as sheep can be trusted. Say that squirrel over there that's telling you to murder the District Supervisor and throw yourself off that bridge... he's a genuine prophet, obviously.

[Erigena]

My mother gave an "just ladies" party on her birthday.

She has woo interests and some beliefs.

For the occasion she hired a palm reader and all the ladies had their palm read.

My wife is sceptical, but still enjoyed it. I had the impression that she wanted to believe in the reading. He mostly did a description of peoples character, in a positive sense. So you'd think a lot of the harm that you get from psychics is avoided.

My wife apparently has a good love line (he she got me, what do you expect?) She loves colour and is creative. Wow.

Many ladies found the reading useful. One friend remarked that "it gave her a lot to think about". Mind you, she's a psychologist that I sometimes consult.

Harmless fun right? What could go wrong?

My mothers cleaning lady (is that the term?), who has been working for her since the mid-eighties also had her palm read.
She's a sweet person and we're all very fond of her. She also dresses in a way that she didn't look out of place amongst the rest of the crowd, mostly professional women with well paying office jobs.

So he told her all about all her talents and potential.

She remarked to my mother that she'd been really down since the reading and can't stop thinking about how she wasted her life just doing simple work. And how she'll never be able to change that (she's in her late fifties).

I realise this is not a Sylvia Brown type disaster, but I feel bad for her.
And what can one possibly say to her? "No, don't worry. That guy is full of it. You really have no talents at all, so don't worry about it"?

I'll conclude by saying that the guy seems to really believe in his abilities. He's a serious classical musician and conductor. I don't think he needs the money, but he does his palm reading stuff even on a local market.
I don't understand people who believe they have special abilities to tell the future or that they can manipulate energy for a magical purpose. I can understand someone who is mentally ill being misled by his or her delusions, but not the average person who reads this stuff and believes it’s possible even though it defies logic.

It’s harmful if the audience is impressionable, but some responsibility should fall on the individual seeking the guidance of those who claim mystical qualities. As a practical person, you have to consider the source before you believe the information.

[Soapy Sam]

Reading palms is dangerous as a coconut may fall on your head.