Dr Bernie Segals

[SusanB-M1]

May I please have an opinion about this man - would you classify him as pseudo or conventional? Thank you.

[fls]

May I please have an opinion about this man - would you classify him as pseudo or conventional? Thank you.

Well, he is credited with the idea that positive attitudes and support groups have a real effect on cancer and cancer mortality - an idea that is generally unquestioned, even by medical professionals. Yet the research, including Segal's own research, does not support the idea.

http://jco.ascopubs.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/1/66

I'm not sure what the threshold is for "psuedo", though.

Linda

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Thanks for the link Linda.

I had read of the results of the study some time ago but did not have a reference.

I think that the concept that positive thinking (with or without the ® ;)) has an impact is a wonderful idea. Too bad the Universe does not work that way.

(Gord checks that his Signature is working correctly.)

[Soapy Sam]

Different spellings there.
Are we sure this is the same BS?

[ExMinister]

I kind of like him, but I definitely wouldn't call him conventional. I have his books (of course :) ), so I dug them up and dusted them off to review them a little for you. I would lump him in a category similar to O. Carl Simonton and Norman Cousins. He tells of having a life-changing event where he attended a meeting with the Simontons and was taught to meditate. He met a spirit guide he called George, who he says he learned to rely on somewhat. In 1988 he became president of the American Holistic Medical Association. I think he used to do the lecture circuit with Wayne Dyer and Deepak Chopra.

Some of his beliefs (me paraphrasing): Unconditional love has a powerful healing effect on the immune system; there is life after death; there is after-death communication; New Age spirituality, not necessarily religious but believes in a God or higher power; synchronicity or meaningful coincidence; visualization can help bring about healing; exceptional patients should take an active role in their healing, not being intimitated by their doctors or other healthcare providers.

Hope that helps a little!

ETA: Bernie Siegel, MD, surgeon, founder of ECaP (Exceptional Cancer Patients)

[fls]

Different spellings there.
Are we sure this is the same BS?

I'm sorry. I didn't pay attention to the spelling in the OP (unless we've screwed up and Susan means someone else :)) and repeated it in my own post.

Linda

[SusanB-M1]

The text quoted below is from two posts in the topic whre the Dr BernardI Segals name came from. I asked the author if she would mind if I quoted it 'on a sceptics forum' and she said that was perfectly all right.
I would much appreciate a few comments and suggestions that I can use in response. I think the chances of any such comments changing her mind are small, but you never know ... and some others who read might start to remove their woo blinkers!

My sister and I and many others over years dedicated ourselves to a trial what is called "hands on healing", like Reiki, but we would relay information from the patient's body.
Now this would mean that a transfer of information was occurring between our brain/bodies and that of our patient's brain/bodies.
Our patients gave us no information about their illness, this was one of our stipulations. Instead we would go into a meditative stance and standing over the patient, connect with their energy body. We would gain imagery of their body and information, both technical and medical "back".

Now as none of us were in the medical profession, we kept a medical book to reference the feedback.
Patients correlated the information relayed to us as truth/fact and before/after X-Rays proved that what was there before, vanished.
At times we healed things that the patient were not concerned about, such as a bone spur, the patient was most obliging.
We did not ever charge for this, we were simply observers of the power of the spirit.
During this process, we would feel spirit energy bodies approach us and walk around the table. Each of us could feel them around us, something you cannot deny when everyone is feeling the same thing.

We had a process where afterwards we would not say what we saw and instead would write down and using body drawings to demonstrate what each of us had seen and recorded as feed-back information.
We had done this over a 20 year period, therefore have witnessed numerous "miracles" ourselves, which is why I say that personal involvement is the only key in understanding processes such as these. We had many different denominations/beliefs/unbelievers visit us for all different types of reasoning. Some were actually fearful of what we were going to do, hence positive thought was not even party or partaken in this instance.
This proved to us beyond any doubt that "spirit identities" exist beyond us and can touch us when we reach out to them in return.
I pointed out that bone spurs disappear naturally - I had one myself once.
.The bone spur had been a bother for quite some time for that person and after they visited us it was gone....say what you will about that.
One patient was about to undergo an operation for a blocked urether tube - operation scheduled, we unblocked it and no operation necessary.
Another had suffered gallstones, we shattered them and he had terrific pain that night......no more gallstones. Several years later they returned due to his poor diet.

Kidney stones - healing removed stones, no operation necessary.
Female with adhesions and mass in womb after tubule ligation gone wrong. Massive pain - operation emminent booked in, was going to have an illeostomy bag inserted, as mass adhered to bowel. Visited us about 5 weeks, cut open, no mass only a few adhesions (strands of fibres) left.
This female herself was an emotional wreck, having lost both a husband and child and therefore was not emotionally adept at positive input.

Myself and sister had endometriosis, attacks every month with acute pain for many years. Healing done - endometriosis gone, my sister at 40 was able to become pregnant.
These are simply a few examples, which is why I investigated Dr. Bernie Segal and what he had to say about the Doctor-patient input and how cellular identity can be changed through the exchange of either voice activated or positive energy input as a relay between people.

Of course on other people it had no affect, therefore as far as I am concerned, this is something that is deeply enmeshed in their DNA and spirit self that has to involve their own input......identification of their self and how they relate to others in the world in general.
Actually, the more I read through this, the more I shake my head sadly!

Shall I just give up?!

[fls]

The text quoted below is from two posts in the topic whre the Dr BernardI Segals name came from. I asked the author if she would mind if I quoted it 'on a sceptics forum' and she said that was perfectly all right.
I would much appreciate a few comments and suggestions that I can use in response. I think the chances of any such comments changing her mind are small, but you never know ... and some others who read might start to remove their woo blinkers!

I pointed out that bone spurs disappear naturally - I had one myself once.

Actually, the more I read through this, the more I shake my head sadly!

Shall I just give up?!

They are obviously pretty heavily invested in this, so I don't see how they could possibly process information that showed their beliefs to be false - it would have to be rejected. Maybe you can help others from being drawn in, though?

Perhaps you could say something like this...

When something very unexpected or unbelievable (i.e. a "miracle") happens to a patient, doctors are very interested in finding out what happened and sharing that information. They carefully document the case (like before and after x-rays) and show that they weren't simply mistaken, and then publish these reports in medical journals. Those cases don't sound particularly remarkable - many gallstones pass, most kidney stones pass, many ureters become unblocked, endometriosis waxes and wanes or even spontaneously resolves - so some of these people will get better no matter what you do. But any that really were miracles - that couldn't get better on their own - should have received the attention of the doctors involved in their care. What did the doctors (not through second-hand reports from the patient, but first-hand reports) have to say about these miracles? Are there published reports you can show us? If not, why not?

Also, it has been my experience that people do a poor job of reporting on their medical conditions including the results of tests. Sometimes they get it right, but the more complicated the information, the more likely it is to be wrong on key points. I can find out what really happened by going to the medical record and looking at the actual test results and the reports on events, written at the time they happened. How did you and your sister make sure that people weren't giving you information that was wrong?

Linda

[ExMinister]

Quote: "These are simply a few examples, which is why I investigated Dr. Bernie Segal and what he had to say about the Doctor-patient input and how cellular identity can be changed through the exchange of either voice activated or positive energy input as a relay between people.

I wonder what she is talking about here. Does she have a quote? It makes little sense to me.

Quote: "Of course on other people it had no affect..."

Might be interesting to have her look at which types of medical complaints were not affected versus which were. It might get her thinking. As I read through her list of successes, I had similar thoughts to Linda's in that these are things that often resolve themselves given time or are variable.

In addition to pointing out what Linda said, maybe ask her to consider if they've had any success with the types of conditions NOT known to spontaneously resolve on their own - e.g., broken bones, blindness, deafness? Clogged arteries? Removal of cataracts? How about healing a herniated disk? Reversing severe scoliosis (could be verified on x-ray)? Getting rid of cystic fibrosis or diabetes, end-stage liver disease, full blown AIDS, congestive heart failure?

I guess I'm thinking if they begin to examine this closely, they may realize that they are NOT succeeding with the types of things that are NOT known to spontaneously resolve on their own. Might be worth a try.

[SusanB-M1]

Linda and ExMinister

Many thanks for your replies - very much appreciated. I will combine them in my response to the poster concerned.

In fact, the text I quoted is comparatively clear! Many of hers are a sort of wall of psycho-babble, using recognisable English words, but in a 'stream of consciousness' without meaning. I decided to tackle one recently and went through section by section asking 'WWhat does this mean?' and 'Why is that?'

In fairness to her, she responded and we pursued the discussion for quite a few posts. I am sure she is a kind and well-meaning woman, but it is a great pity she is so far into her area of belief.