Why did Jesus throw a tantrum at the fig tree?

[Safe-Keeper]

OK, so in Mark 11, Jesus comes upon a fig tree, realizes the tree has no fruit as it's not fig season, and curses the tree so that it instantly withers. Now, most of the other stuff I read in the Bible, I understand, but this one is just beyond me.

I gather the point may be that Jesus is mad at people who don't believe because there's no evidence. The 'season for figs' may be the time in which actual evidence for Him is revealed.

Given that 'fruits' is used often as an expression in the Bible, it could also mean that Christ is mad at people who only do good when others do as well and it's fashionable to do so - when it's "season for good fruits".

Am I way off here?


Source (http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_life_of_jesus/jesus_curses_a_tree/mk11_12-13.html).

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_life_of_jesus/jesus_curses_a_tree/mk11_14.jpg

[Professor Yaffle]

Cos he was hungry.

[Marquis de Carabas]

You're overthinking it. Really, if your first presents are gold and expensive spices, it's no surprise if you grow up to be a spoilt brat with entitlement issues.

[A Christian Sceptic]

Here's a place to start courtesy of Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fig_Tree):
The incident with the fig tree occurs in Mark 11 immediately before and then after the incident at the Temple. The cursing of the tree displays Jesus' power and the power of prayer coupled with full belief in God. Mark, placing the fig tree before and after the incident at the Temple, may be using the fig tree as a metaphor, as Jesus himself might have, for what he sees as the barrenness of the priests (technically, the Temple priests were the Sadducees) and the withering of their teaching and authority due to their lack of true faith. As Jesus hoped to find fruit on the fig tree, Jesus hoped to find "fruit", the fruit of true worship of God, at the Temple. The Temple, Herod's Temple, like the fig tree, is cursed. See also Jeremiah 8:13.

Simon Peter observes that the tree withered. Jesus responds that anyone can make a mountain throw itself in the sea, if he truly believes his command will be obeyed. A similar statement is also mentioned in the much earlier Pauline Epistles, where the First Epistle to the Corinthians argues that faith can move mountains.

In the Synoptic Gospels, the fig tree is revisited as a parable within the Olivet discourse. Jesus says that when the fig tree puts forth leaves one can tell that summer has arrived. Jesus continues that when this has happened the kingdom of God will be at hand. This is almost always interpreted metaphorically, and is usually considered in contrast to the earlier tree withering.

Most modern Christians interpret the parable to suggest that the tree's withering meant the teachings of the Sadducees and Pharisees were far from the truth, and that this poverty of teaching was the source of Jesus' anger at the lack of fruit. At some point the fruits of Christianity will come forth and then an eschatological kingdom of God arrive

[Safe-Keeper]

Thanks a lot, really interesting. Never thought of checking the Wiki... I tend to use it for more peaceful stuff.

[Holler Hoojer]

Lemme see. Jesus was a good Jewish boy. Israel was traditionally viewed as the first fruit of the fig tree. Jesus was pissed off at Israel's lack of obedience to God. Mmm?

[Whiplash]

Why is Obi Wan cursing that lego tree? Or is that Qui-Gon?

[Safe-Keeper]

His father is Gandalf the White, apparently.

[TraneWreck]

I dunno, Jesus was kind of a dick sometimes. One of the gospels has this story where jesus banishes a demon, or group of demons called "Legion," from a man and somehow directs the demons to a herd of pigs.

The pigs go nuts and drown themselves.

Think about the poor dude in the country of the Gadarenes: he's just minding his own business and some guy in a robe comes along and kills all of his pigs.

I would be pissed. And given Jesus' infinite powers, why did he have to kill that guy's pigs. Couldn't he have done something else with the demons?

I think the poor fig tree is in a the same position and the guy with the pigs.

[Hokulele]

What would a bunch of Jews want with pigs? Drown 'em all!

[The Atheist]

OK, so in Mark 11, Jesus comes upon a fig tree, realizes the tree has no fruit as it's not fig season, and curses the tree so that it instantly withers.

Clearly an analogy for women.

If a woman is not in season when you want her to be, she should be killed.

[CrikeyBobs]

I love how that tilt-shift technique makes the image look like a miniature. Neato.

[Pardalis]

I love how that tilt-shift technique makes the image look like a miniature. Neato.

Aren't they already miniatures, and just shot in macro?

[Greediguts]

I dunno, Jesus was kind of a dick sometimes. One of the gospels has this story where jesus banishes a demon, or group of demons called "Legion," from a man and somehow directs the demons to a herd of pigs.

The pigs go nuts and drown themselves.

Think about the poor dude in the country of the Gadarenes: he's just minding his own business and some guy in a robe comes along and kills all of his pigs.

I would be pissed. And given Jesus' infinite powers, why did he have to kill that guy's pigs. Couldn't he have done something else with the demons?

I think the poor fig tree is in a the same position and the guy with the pigs.

Of course, the writer could have been comparing a herd of swine to another type of "legion". The Roman legions would not have been particularly well-liked...

[tsig]

I dunno, Jesus was kind of a dick sometimes. One of the gospels has this story where jesus banishes a demon, or group of demons called "Legion," from a man and somehow directs the demons to a herd of pigs.

The pigs go nuts and drown themselves.

Think about the poor dude in the country of the Gadarenes: he's just minding his own business and some guy in a robe comes along and kills all of his pigs.

I would be pissed. And given Jesus' infinite powers, why did he have to kill that guy's pigs. Couldn't he have done something else with the demons?

I think the poor fig tree is in a the same position and the guy with the pigs.

God was endorsing B-Bque. Grill the pigs over the figs.

[Robert Oz]

Jesus comes upon a fig tree, realizes the tree has no fruit as it's not fig season, and curses the tree so that it instantly withers. Now, most of the other stuff I read in the Bible, I understand, but this one is just beyond me.


Jesus practised conjuring as a side-hobby, but he wasn't very good at it.

Jesus saw a dry, withered fig tree off in the distance and quickly yelled out, "I curse you, fig tree! I curse you good!"

All the disciples turned around and were amazed by the dry, withered fig tree. Simon Peter saw it early though and tried to ruin the trick: "************! That tree was already dry and withered."

But Jesus had a stooge in Judas. "No, no it wasn't. I saw it. It was lush and green. Christ, you're a bad***!"

Jesus high-fived Judas and whispered "Heckler" under his breath to Simon Peter.


One of the gospels has this story where jesus banishes a demon, or group of demons called "Legion," from a man and somehow directs the demons to a herd of pigs.

The pigs go nuts and drown themselves.


Jesus was desperately trying to calm down a looney tune. He had his pose right (akin to Darth Vader strangling that military officer on the Death Star), but the guy just kept jumping around and screaming obscenities.

The looney tune spooked a bunch of pigs that proceeded to run of a cliff to escape the looney.

Jesus turned around to his disciples and said, "Did you see that? Did you see what I did? I totally sent the demons from that guy into the pigs. Spread that one around. That's a good one. Damn, I'm good!"

[kmortis]

Kreeist! Not this again. It was well established that Jesus hated trees. HIs father was a carpenter (aka one who tortures trees until they bend to his will), he cursed the tree and he was killed on a tree. Duh!

[JoeTheJuggler]

Lesson of the fig tree story: Jesus has supernatural connections.

I think it's a just-so story to explain a barren fig tree known in the region about the time the synoptics were written down.

It's on par with the legend of Buddha being born able to speak.

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

What would a bunch of Jews want with pigs? Drown 'em all!

Are you saying we Jews aren't responsible enough to raise pigs?![/feigned outrage]

[TraneWreck]

Of course, the writer could have been comparing a herd of swine to another type of "legion". The Roman legions would not have been particularly well-liked...

That's an impressive bit of word association, but the comparison fails completely if you read the actual story. I could say your investigative skills make you a real dick, but then I'd be making the same mistake...

[Greediguts]

That's an impressive bit of word association, but the comparison fails completely if you read the actual story. I could say your investigative skills make you a real dick, but then I'd be making the same mistake...
Nice!:D

The actual theory comes from John Dominic Crossan. Crossan looks at Jesus as a social reformer. By looking at Jesus' teachings as trying to invoke political changes at that time, instead of worrying about everyone's personal salvation in the future, you see his message directed at society as a whole instead of the individual. Crossan knows the historical Jesus couldn't cast out demons, but if the story is a metaphor, then it fits with his theory. The demons being named "Legion" refer to the occupying Romans. The man's body represents their society that the Romans forced their way into. Jesus is advocating the removal of Roman control and oppression. He casts the demons into swine, which Jews considered unclean or not pure. Not just a veiled swipe at the Romans, but another reminder for the Jewish people to not associate with the Romans or to adopt their customs.

Again, it is a theory. I don't always agree with Crossan but I do respect his opinions. He has significantly contributed to overall scholarly body of work regarding the historical Jesus and early Christianity.

Of course, he could just be a dick too...;)

[six7s]

OK, so in Mark 11, Jesus comes upon a fig tree, realizes the tree has no fruit as it's not fig season, and curses the tree so that it instantly withers. Now, most of the other stuff I read in the Bible, I understand, but this one is just beyond me.For the easiest and simplest answers, see http://www.godhatesfigs.com (http://www.godhatesfags.com/)

[Typicallucas]

For the easiest and simplest answers, see http://www.godhatesfigs.com (http://www.godhatesfags.com/)

Oh, snap!

[six7s]

Oh, snap!Perhaps unsurprisingly, we're not the first to recognise that pun

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com What the Bible says about Figs (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/figs.html)

(God hates them.)

Psalms 105:33
He smote ... their fig trees.

Jeremiah 24:2-3
The other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.

Jeremiah 29:17-18
Thus sayeth the Lord of hosts, Behold, I will ... make them like vile figs, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.

Hosea 2:12
I will destroy her vines and her fig trees.

Matthew 21:19
And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

Mark 11:13-14, 20
And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. ... And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.

(Or maybe he doesn't)

2 Kings 20:7
And Isaiah said, Take a lump of figs. And they took and laid it on the boil, and he recovered.

[TraneWreck]

Nice!:D

The actual theory comes from John Dominic Crossan. Crossan looks at Jesus as a social reformer. By looking at Jesus' teachings as trying to invoke political changes at that time, instead of worrying about everyone's personal salvation in the future, you see his message directed at society as a whole instead of the individual. Crossan knows the historical Jesus couldn't cast out demons, but if the story is a metaphor, then it fits with his theory. The demons being named "Legion" refer to the occupying Romans. The man's body represents their society that the Romans forced their way into. Jesus is advocating the removal of Roman control and oppression. He casts the demons into swine, which Jews considered unclean or not pure. Not just a veiled swipe at the Romans, but another reminder for the Jewish people to not associate with the Romans or to adopt their customs.

Again, it is a theory. I don't always agree with Crossan but I do respect his opinions. He has significantly contributed to overall scholarly body of work regarding the historical Jesus and early Christianity.

Of course, he could just be a dick too...;)


Haha, I'm glad you saw the humor in my statement, it easily could have been taken otherwise.

That interpretation is a huge stretch. The story is sparse with very little detail, there's nothing to indicate the writers meant anything other than a demon-possessed man and a group of pigs.

On top of that, Luke and Mark use the name "Legion," but Matthew doesn't (Matthew also has 2 possessed men). If it were really meant to be allegory based on the Roman Legions, the name would be sine qua non. Without the name "Legion" you could easily substitute the corrupt teachings of the Pharisees, or any bugaboo you desire, as the target of the swine slander.

It's far more likely that all the talk about demon banishing (which makes up a significant percentage of Jesus and his follower's work) is nothing more than unsophisticated superstition.

[Doctor Evil]

I do not like figs. So it all seems fairly reasonable to me, tough I never got mad at a tree.

[Darth Rotor]

Lemme see. Jesus was a good Jewish boy.
I dunno, Jesus was kind of a dick sometimes.
A trimmed dick at that.
What would a bunch of Jews want with pigs?
Not eating.

(I was having a Zen moment there, sue me. :p )

DR

[Safe-Keeper]

I do not like figs. So it all seems fairly reasonable to me, tough I never got mad at a tree. You don't like figs, so it makes sense to you to be provoked by a tree not bearing figs? What?

:p

[chillzero]

So the point was that the power of prayer and belief in god are supreme, and enable you to accomplish anything? Funny how that doesn't work for any believers since then, really.

[PrincessIneffabelle]

The tree totally had it coming! Stupid fig trees, always acting like they can get away with anything.

"Oh, look, it's the bleedin' Messiah :rolleyes:. Well, I'm not gonna bend over and pop out some fruit for that nutter!"

[quarky]

There's a rumor that Jesus was crucified on a dogwood cross, and god cursed the dogwood tree so that it would never grow big enough to make a cross again.

(He forgot about laminates. Now we could make a good cross out of bamboo if we had to.)

[boloboffin]

If a man goes onto his property, flips out over a fig tree, and saws it down, do you try to question why? It's not producing to suit him so he takes it out. No great mystery.

So, too, Jesus approaching the Temple -- in all its glory, it was producing nothing to suit him. So Jesus was demonstrating his utter right to take the place out. The fig tree wasn't in season yet? Well, Herod's Temple was always a-building, and it never seemed to be the season to stop the cooperation with the Romans and make the temple holy again.

And what sweeter part of God's plan than to have the Romans themselves destroy that which God hated?

[aggle-rithm]

Jesus was desperately trying to calm down a looney tune. He had his pose right (akin to Darth Vader strangling that military officer on the Death Star), but the guy just kept jumping around and screaming obscenities.

The looney tune spooked a bunch of pigs that proceeded to run of a cliff to escape the looney.

Jesus turned around to his disciples and said, "Did you see that? Did you see what I did? I totally sent the demons from that guy into the pigs. Spread that one around. That's a good one. Damn, I'm good!"

The beauty of it is, if anyone points out that the guy is still a raving looney, Jesus just has to say: "Of course, he's still crazy. He just doesn't have the demons anymore."

[Beerina]

What would a bunch of Jews want with pigs? Drown 'em all!

I assume pigs were off limits for eating already by that point. So why would one have a herd of pigs to begin with? :boggled:


In any case, I get the feeling these were like the agents taking over the wetware of coppertops. Which fits in with the Neo-as-Jesus theory quite well, now that I think about it. It certainly explains why "Jesus", "John the Baptist", "Mary the Hot Former Hooker In Love With Jesus", and so on, didn't care about slaughtering tons of otherwise innocent coppertops. Possessed by "the Devil"? Fair game for a peasant skeetshoot.

[TraneWreck]

I assume pigs were off limits for eating already by that point. So why would one have a herd of pigs to begin with? :boggled:


Well, the pig herder was from the country of the Gadarenes, so he wasn't necessarily Jewish.

This makes the story even stranger: a wandering Jew from a neighboring country shows up and demolishes a person's livlihood for no apparant reason.

[aggle-rithm]

Well, the pig herder was from the country of the Gadarenes, so he wasn't necessarily Jewish.

This makes the story even stranger: a wandering Jew from a neighboring country shows up and demolishes a person's livlihood for no apparant reason.

Pig herder: My pigs! What have you done with my pigs!

Jesus: Oh, you don't want those pigs. They're full of demons.

Pig herder: Demons...? But they seemed fine this...

Jesus: Oh, and you better turn over your sheep as well. They're high in sodium.

[six7s]

Pig herder: In contrast with what? You, high on THC?

Jesus: Don't be so heavy, man!

[David Wong]

Given that 'fruits' is used often as an expression in the Bible, it could also mean that Christ is mad at people who only do good when others do as well and it's fashionable to do so - when it's "season for good fruits".







Not to derail this thread with, you know, actual discussion of the OP, but that's what I've always taken the story to mean. Seems to fit in the context of other parables that relay the same message (that Jesus was all about what you actually did, rather than what you said or what ceremony you performed).

The actual responses in this thread raise another more important point, which is how destructive the dismissiveness that comes with Atheism is. It's like it's part of the Atheist creed not just to disbelieve other religions, but to actively squash any curiosity that may arise as to what people believe and why.

It's one thing to refuse to believe in the supernatural; that's rational. It's another to dismiss all subjects related to the human tradition of religion as unworthy of all but the most dismissive and sarcastic discussion. That is not rational. That's how a fundamentalist acts.

[six7s]

Not to derail this thread with, you know, actual discussion of the OP, but that's what I've always taken the story to mean. Seems to fit in the context of other parables that relay the same message (that Jesus was all about what you actually did, rather than what you said or what ceremony you performed).

The actual responses in this thread raise another more important point, which is how destructive the dismissiveness that comes with Atheism is. It's like it's part of the Atheist creed not just to disbelieve other religions, but to actively squash any curiosity that may arise as to what people believe and why.

It's one thing to refuse to believe in the supernatural; that's rational. It's another to dismiss all subjects related to the human tradition of religion as unworthy of all but the most dismissive and sarcastic discussion. That is not rational. That's how a fundamentalist acts.Ahhh... so you DO want to derail this thread with strawmen arguments and blatant lies...

Tip: DON'T

[TimCallahan]

Mark's fig tree story was an embarrassment to both Matthew and Luke, who based their narratives on Mark only altering certain aspects here and there. As to the fig tree episode, Matthew altered it as follows. Mark has Jesus curse a fig tree for not bearing figs out of season. The next day he and the 12 come by the same spot, and the desciples see that the fig tree has withered and died. Then they remember his words and are awed. Matthew leaves out the bit about it not being the season for figs and has the tree wither and die immediately following the curse, giving the miracle more punch. Luke leaves the incident out altogether, merely making a statement elsewhere that barren trees are cut down nd thrown into the fire, obviously a reference to barren human lives.

I think the most logical explanation for Jesus mark putting in this odd tale of Jesus throwing a snit because a tree wasn't bearing fruit out of season is to be found in Dennis MacDonald's book, "The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark." This author points out that "mimesis" the basing of one's work on the the great works of the past, was highly lauded in Roman times, and that Homer was the author most mimiced. Macdonald points out that three oddities found in Mark can be explained by reference back to Homer. Cursing the fig tree is one of the three.

MacDonald points out that in the Odyssey the gardens surrounding the palace of the king of Phaeacea contain trees miraculously bearing fruit out of season. In Mark the cursing of the fig tree is sandwiched between Jesus's initial visit to the temple complex on one day and his driving the money changers out of the temple on the next. Refering back to the Odyssey, which most of his audience would have understood, Mark was saying that the temple should bear fruit, i.e. be effective as God's instrument, at all times, not intermittently. The fig tree, bearing fruit only during its season, is symbolic of the failure of the temple and its authorities (in the eyes of Jesus at least). The fig (temple) should bear fruit in all seasons, lke the trees in the garden of the king of Phaeacea.

MacDonald may or may not be correct in his assessment (though I think he's right on), but his explanation is the only one I've heard that makes sense out of Mark going out of his way to insert a story - which still embarrasses Christian ministers to this day - of Jesus throwing a snit and cursing a non-sentient life form for not producing fruit out of season.

[boloboffin]

You don't like my "I'm God, I'm 10 years old, I'll do what I want!" explanation?

[six7s]

Mark's fig tree story was an embarrassment to both Matthew and Luke

Nominated (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4688103#post4688103) :)

One question: does this mean godhatesfigs or not?

[boloboffin]

Nominated (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4688103#post4688103) :)

One question: does this mean godhatesfigs or not?

It means Matthew hates Mark, and Luke won't even invite him to parties.

[aerosolben]

MacDonald may or may not be correct in his assessment (though I think he's right on), but his explanation is the only one I've heard that makes sense out of Mark going out of his way to insert a story - which still embarrasses Christian ministers to this day - of Jesus throwing a snit and cursing a non-sentient life form for not producing fruit out of season.
I like it as well. I'd primarily focused on the bizarre Matthew version in the past, not sure why - I should know it's not the source text, and missed this sensible explanation.

And I think David has a point in general - sometimes the non-religious have a tendency to not want to "give any ground" in the realm of Biblical coherency/accuracy, a backlash against the many who would put a seminal piece of historical literature on an overly tall pedestal. In this particular case, David, I think you may have mistaken snark for vitriol.

[Darth Rotor]

Why did Jesus throw a tantrum at the fig tree?
Good question. I'd have thrown the split fingered fast ball.

[six7s]

Good question. I'd have thrown the split fingered fast ball.I think you'll find that a fig tree lacks what is required to catch what you have on offer

[slingblade]

How much does a tantrum weigh?

[Hokulele]

How much does a tantrum weigh?


Three snits and half a conniption.

[six7s]

42 kilomemes