psychic type

[makaya325]

I know that most of us here have a firm belief that psychic powers do not exist. Even though they dont exist, there is one cool topic concerning psychics:

What type of person would you expect to be labeled a psychic, and what kind of person do you think would beat the jref challenge? Do you think its the persons personality, looks, credentials, etc.?

[jasonpatterson]

I honestly don't think anyone will beat the MDC. If it is someone, it will be the person who can either prove that they have some paranormal ability or someone who is a lot trickier than a whole pack of very tricky people.

[Vortigern99]

You keep using the word "belief" when it comes to phenomena for which little to no evidence exists. We can believe anything we like -- eg, the Flying Spaghetti Monster and his mind powers of interdimensional awesomeness -- but in the face of no evidence for such things, belief requires a leap of faith beyond the realm of rationality.

There is no convincing evidence of psychic potency in human beings or any other species. Thus belief in this power, in any individual, would be irrational and emotional.

Therefore, too, your question has no meaning. Since psychic power does not exist, no person -- of any description -- will come forward demonstrating it, nor beating the Challenge.

[Tricky]

I What type of person would you expect to be labeled a psychic...

Two basic types, with minor variations and mixes:

Dishonest
Deluded
...and what kind of person do you think would beat the jref challenge.
I don't think any will beat it. I think the "Deluded" variety are more likely to try. The dishonest ones know that they can't do their tricks in a fair test.

Do you think its the persons personality, looks, credentials, etc.?
As a general rule, those who actually take the test are usually quite unassuming and naive. Sometimes you get one who thinks they can fool the testers, like Natalia Luvlova (http://www.time.com/time/columnist/jaroff/article/0,9565,199773,00.html), but they are usually pretty naive too and unprepared to deal with someone who knows their tricks. Others, especially dowsers, are completely bumfoozled when their powers don't work, like Mike Guksa (http://www.randi.org/jr/032902.html), though they often spend great effort in trying to explain away their failures.

But I predict you will never see a "professional psychic" take the test. They have too much to lose. And they will lose.

[empeake]

I know that most of us here have a firm belief that psychic powers do not exist. Even though they dont exist, there is one cool topic concerning psychics


We can not say that psychic powers do not exist. We can, however, state that, until now, there is no scientific evidence of the existence of such powers.


What type of person would you expect to be labeled a psychic...


This part of the question eludes me. All sort of con artists and naive people label themselves (or are labeled) psychics. Are you referring to what type of person would merit the true title of psychic?


...and what kind of person do you think would beat the jref challenge?


Quoting the rules (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-application.html): ...any person who can demonstrate any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability under satisfactory observing conditions.


Do you think its the persons personality, looks, credentials, etc.?


For the $1 Million Paranormal Challenge, all these traits are irrelevant. The only issue at stake is the ability to demonstrate the psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability in accordance to the rules.

[makaya325]

I was asking like what kind of character would you label a perfect psychic? Could it be he/she's mysterious character, how they talk, their speech, etc?

[JollyRoger]

I was asking like what kind of character would you label a perfect psychic? Could it be he/she's mysterious character, how they talk, their speech, etc?

IF such things as psychic really do exist I BELIEVE they would prefer to stay in the shadows. Because if they were really psychic they would know all the corruption that exist in the world today they would know how threatened people feel by the thought of "my secrets are no longer safe" and "this psychic can use my secrets against me" or "someone might use the psychic to get my secrets and use them against me" and they would also know how far the corrupted people are willing to go to maintain their life style.

Being psychic seems to be a very popular delusion, it gives you an illusion of control over your environment that most don't have. And gives you a feeling of importance and accomplishment that one may not normal be able to archive.

Just my two cents

[DevilsAdvocate]

I was asking like what kind of character would you label a perfect psychic? Could it be he/she's mysterious character, how they talk, their speech, etc?I see what you are asking. If it turned out someone really had psychic powers, what would they probably be like. Like if you are writing a book and have to come up with a realistic character.

I agree with JollyRoger. I would expect someone very confused, scared, outcast, shy, anti-social. They would have to be very different from everybody else, so would probably be disfigured or have some type of brain damage.

I guess Kim Peek would probably be my starting model. He’s probably the best example we have of someone with “paranormal” like abilities.

[makaya325]

I see what you are asking. If it turned out someone really had psychic powers, what would they probably be like. Like if you are writing a book and have to come up with a realistic character.

I agree with JollyRoger. I would expect someone very confused, scared, outcast, shy, anti-social. They would have to be very different from everybody else, so would probably be disfigured or have some type of brain damage.

I guess Kim Peek would probably be my starting model. He’s probably the best example we have of someone with “paranormal” like abilities.

What about if the Psychic was a Monk/Sherpa from the Himalayas, and was looking forward to the MDC? It is a fantasy scenario, but still thrilling.

[JollyRoger]

What about if the Psychic was a Monk/Sherpa from the Himalayas, and was looking forward to the MDC? It is a fantasy scenario, but still thrilling.

Two words ........gas money

[DevilsAdvocate]

What about if the Psychic was a Monk/Sherpa from the Himalayas, and was looking forward to the MDC? It is a fantasy scenario, but still thrilling.My opinion is that a true psychic would probably be someone born and living in very normal circumstances with significant disabilities, and NOT someone who was in far-off unreachable lands where it would be difficult to access or test them (such as a Sherpa), and NOT someone who was segregated from the common population trying to achieve psychic ability or a high religious experience (such as a Monk). It is not thrilling. It is predictable and boring. :(

[EHocking]

My opinion is that a true psychic would probably be someone born and living in very normal circumstances with significant disabilities, ...I'm not following your logic.

Why would someone with different brain chemistry have to be disfigured or have significant physical disabilities?

[jasonpatterson]

I'm not following your logic.

Why would someone with different brain chemistry have to be disfigured or have significant physical disabilities?

I don't know about physical disabilities either though while I certainly don't think that it will happen, I can see some logic in the idea that someone with pseudo-paranormal abilities might have serious mental disabilities.

Imagine that a series of mutations in humans results in someone who has a brain structure that allows them to do something completely explainable scientifically, like voluntarily generating a sizeable electric field. If such a thing did occur, it seems likely that the changes to the brain involved would likely damage that person's cognition significantly.

[Fnord]

A Science-Fiction Role-Playing Game* called "Traveller" identifies six general classes of psionics:

Awareness - Affects the self only. Healing, suspended animation, and enhanced physical abilities.

Clairvoyance - Better called "Extra-Sensory Perception" (IMTU). Mainly remote seeing and hearing in real time.

Telekinesis - Moving objects solely by thinking about it.

Telepathy - Sending and receiving thoughts and emotions. Life detection, too.

Teleportation - He's here. He's there. He's everywhere. Conservation of energy & momentum apply.

Special - Anything not fitting into defined categories.


(* - The key words are "Fiction" and "Game.")

[JollyRoger]

I don't know about physical disabilities either though while I certainly don't think that it will happen, I can see some logic in the idea that someone with pseudo-paranormal abilities might have serious mental disabilities.

Imagine that a series of mutations in humans results in someone who has a brain structure that allows them to do something completely explainable scientifically, like voluntarily generating a sizeable electric field. If such a thing did occur, it seems likely that the changes to the brain involved would likely damage that person's cognition significantly.

In other words (it seems) in todays technologically advanced society, their considered freaks.

[Profwag]

But I predict you will never see a "professional psychic" take the test. They have too much to lose. And they will lose.

Tricky, Patricia Putt claimed to be a professional psychic and she took the preliminary test just last week. She still claims to be psychic too, even though the results don't seem to support that claim.
Wag

[makaya325]

Is there an ongoing steroetype of what a Psychic would look like/act like? Would they be mysterious and dark type?

[JollyRoger]

Is there an ongoing steroetype of what a Psychic would look like/act like? Would they be mysterious and dark type?

I think they would blend in and be walking among us, with one difference.

They will always be one step ahead of us and purposely foul things up so they can live a normal life with out being put on display as a freak of nature or being used by someone to make a name for themselves at the psychics expense.

If a million dollars has not brought any of them out of hiding their either is no such thing as a psychic or they already know what is gonna happen to them and prefer to avoid it. Either way they got one up on us. which seems unavoidable

[Brattus]

I think they would blend in and be walking among us, with one difference.

They will always be one step ahead of us and purposely foul things up so they can live a normal life with out being put on display as a freak of nature or being used by someone to make a name for themselves at the psychics expense.

If a million dollars has not brought any of them out of hiding their either is no such thing as a psychic or they already know what is gonna happen to them and prefer to avoid it. Either way they got one up on us. which seems unavoidable

I couldn't disagree with this post more. IF a person were actually psychic it would not be dark and mysterious or a one step ahead power.
True psychic powers in the real world would be a horrible curse.
If such a person could survive their childhood they would more than likely be utterly insane.
To be able to see the future or any and all futures at any given time would be way to much information to process while trying to function normally.
A child being exposed to all the ugliness that is the human animal is to cruel to even imagine.
There is a very good reason why none of us are or have ever been psychic.
We simply don't need to be.

[LightningStrike]

I am new here walking as it were amongst the wolves who undoubtably are quick to jump upon and tear apart a naked baby but to really understand the phenomena of the psyche (the whole of existence) one must be innocent and see the space in which one operates.
The psyche is the space in which thought appears (inner space), it is also the space in which sensations and emotions appear and underneath that it is the marvelous place of pure life. This is where the subject resides not out here on the screen but seemingly inside the body of whoever is reading this. Thinking and all scientific information that an individual can know as memory is like a bubble in this space and the bubble is made of past a slower time than the immediacy of now. The place that the bubble appears is the psyche and it (the psyche) is originally pure and it is what the subject really is having no position. It is a mystery and a wonder. People are unconsciously drawn to it for example by the scientific urge to explore space which is the outer reflection of the psyche that which contains all form. Really we are always operating in inner space without realising it and when we are one pointed in our contemplation and our mind (the bubble) opens to the pure inner psyche or reality then we can suddenly get the idea of something. Oh and the wonder-ful explanation for this thread is this... the psyche is projected through the senses to form the whole of existence. Now that explains everything. The mind (brain) is the most misunderstood instrument. It projects into existence all forms of the world (our man made world) and the glorious earth no matter what I am thinking or how unconscious of my senses I am it does it. If an individual is sufficiently conscious in inner space their intelligence starts to exceed the speed of existence (the speed of light) and that detaches it from identification with the sense mechanism. That's entry into the inner reality of our systems (while still perceiving sense) and that's the entry into the psyche. I am not overtly into psychic manipulation but when you want for something enough and are one pointed in that pursuit it will happen and I understand that is what "The Secret" is all about (that's a movie about how to 'manifest' things). The bigger picture is that the psyche is the greater reality behind this relative reality (relative because it disappears every night when I go to sleep) and any psychic tricks to get a million$ have no real purpose so they don't have the power to manifest in front of a forcefully critical mind that also has the psychic power to influence circumstance but does not know that. It is a marvelous subject and of course it can't be science because it is utterly subjective and can't be known by the rational mind. Science is objective but who is the subject, the deeper level of perception beyond the mind? That's the real subject. If the testers were really innocent and could be relied on to not project their unconscious judgment onto the circumstance then that would be a real test but who has that self knowledge amongst you?

[IXP]

Timothy Leary, is that you, speaking from the grave?

IXP

[Ron_Tomkins]

What type of person would you expect to be labeled a psychic,

One that, in principle, actually had psychic powers

That is, could predict events in an accurate and detailed way, that could not have been faked in any other way, through any of the many well known methods there are for creating the illusion that one has predicted something through paranormal means


...as opposed to Sylvia Browne's "The-stock-market-will-crash-in-two-months" crappy type of "predictions"

[empeake]

I am new here walking as it were amongst the wolves who undoubtably are quick to jump upon and tear apart a naked baby but to really understand the phenomena of the psyche (the whole of existence) one must be innocent and see the space in which one operates.


Welcome. Before the feasting begins, please remember that all your ideas will be mercilessly attacked, so you must be prepared to defend them with evidence, and by evidence I mean hard, scientific evidence, not New Age drivel, as you naively did.

For example, you talk about "manifesting". You could begin by defining what "manifesting" is, provide a reasonable hypothesis of how it works, explain how manifesting can be proved, describe tests that can be used to prove it, include links to the methodology and results of controlled studies that have performed these tests, corroborate these results with independent tests, etc.

This is a warning shot. Future responses will be very aggressive, but remember that (most) forum members are not attacking you personally, but your unsubstantiated ideas. Have a thick skin, do not fall into the trap of insults and personal attacks and, most important, be willing to doubt your initial assumptions and change your point of view in light of the evidence. After all, we are in skeptical forum, and such is the nature of the beast.

[Fnord]

LightningStrike,

To put Empeake's post in a more condensed form, please read and heed the following:

We do not suffer foolish claims lightly. You have been warned.

Respectfully,

Fnord

[chillzero]

LightningStrike,

To put Empeake's post in a more condensed form, please read and heed the following:

We do not suffer foolish claims lightly. You have been warned.

Respectfully,

Fnord

and learn to use a few paragraphs, please. :)

[Cuddles]

I think they would blend in and be walking among us, with one difference.

They will always be one step ahead of us and purposely foul things up so they can live a normal life with out being put on display as a freak of nature or being used by someone to make a name for themselves at the psychics expense.

If a million dollars has not brought any of them out of hiding their either is no such thing as a psychic or they already know what is gonna happen to them and prefer to avoid it. Either way they got one up on us. which seems unavoidable

The trouble with this idea is that it completely ignores human nature. Firstly, you are assuming that all psychics would be geniuses at hiding. But around 50% (note I said around, let's not start that argument up here) of people are below average intelligence, with a significant number of them a very long way below. Why would psychics be any different? Sure, some may well be geniuses. And others would be retards who wouldn't know how to hide even if they managed to think of doing so.

Secondly, you're assuming that they would all want the same thing. But that's a completely unwarranted assumption. Sure, some people don't want fame. But others do. Have you seen any "reality" TV, for example? The things some people are willing to do just to get others to look at them really are incredible. Are you really going to claim that every single person with pyschic powers would just happen to not only be extremely intelligent and able to hide, but would also want to do so?

As evidence against you, just look at the number of people who claim they actually do have psychics powers. They're not exactly shy about it, are they? Sure, we know that they don't actually have such powers, but they're not all frauds. Some of them really do believe it and still advertise themselves to the world. What makes you think someone who actually had powers would be so different? For the purposes of exposing yourself to the world, it's the belief in your powers that matters, not the actual existence of the powers, and there are plenty of people who really do believe they have them, yet act the complete opposite of how you propose.

[JollyRoger]

The trouble with this idea is that it completely ignores human nature. Firstly, you are assuming that all psychics would be geniuses at hiding. But around 50% (note I said around, let's not start that argument up here) of people are below average intelligence, with a significant number of them a very long way below. Why would psychics be any different? Sure, some may well be geniuses. And others would be retards who wouldn't know how to hide even if they managed to think of doing so.

Secondly, you're assuming that they would all want the same thing. But that's a completely unwarranted assumption. Sure, some people don't want fame. But others do. Have you seen any "reality" TV, for example? The things some people are willing to do just to get others to look at them really are incredible. Are you really going to claim that every single person with pyschic powers would just happen to not only be extremely intelligent and able to hide, but would also want to do so?

As evidence against you, just look at the number of people who claim they actually do have psychics powers. They're not exactly shy about it, are they? Sure, we know that they don't actually have such powers, but they're not all frauds. Some of them really do believe it and still advertise themselves to the world. What makes you think someone who actually had powers would be so different? For the purposes of exposing yourself to the world, it's the belief in your powers that matters, not the actual existence of the powers, and there are plenty of people who really do believe they have them, yet act the complete opposite of how you propose.

He asked the question and I replied with what I think they would be like If they where real, I do tend to get a bit narrow minded at times, but the fact remains No one has come forward and won the challenge. and with a million bucks one could live very comfortably. If psychics are real why have they not come forth and passed Randi's test. That in itself would be some of the best advertising you can get as a psychic, scientific proof of your abilities, and after that the worlds your oyster You might have clientèle from all over the world and you can charge them pretty much anything being the only psychic that is recognized by science. You would have the corner on the market, of course its just my opinion based on...........hmm the assumption that they are real?

[quarky]

Middle aged, middle class white women with lots of make-up and slightly overweight is what works for me. Tammy Faye Baker is the correct archetype for psychic ability.

[makaya325]

Middle aged, middle class white women with lots of make-up and slightly overweight is what works for me. Tammy Faye Baker is the correct archetype for psychic ability.

And Sylvia Browne, lol.

I am surprised on the diversity of life styles/personality/appearance of these charlatans "Psychics". Would not it be better for these people to appear dark and mysterious to potential suckers? Kind of like Criss Angel, but unlike himself, who doesnt claim powers.

[JollyRoger]

OH now I understand the question

a tall thin, short fat guy with thick balding, sort thin hair, clean shaved with facial hair lightly colored dark skin :D

[makaya325]

OH now I understand the question

a tall thin, short fat guy with thick balding, sort thin hair, clean shaved with facial hair lightly colored dark skin :D

Thanks jolly! After i read that, My stomach hurts so much now! :jaw-dropp

[JollyRoger]

Try some flat coca cola its good for a belly ache

[makaya325]

Try some flat coca cola its good for a belly ache

:D

I think that this topic is important: I really look forward on personal opinions on how psychics are stereotyped, and how you guys would envision the perfect psychic, if they were real, which science knows for a fact they arent.

[quarky]

They wear moo-moos. They have spiritual mo-jo going on. Doesn't hurt if they're Gypsies.

[makaya325]

They wear moo-moos. They have spiritual mo-jo going on. Doesn't hurt if they're Gypsies.

The moo-moos remind me of Married with children. Al bundy was the MAN. I am glad that his real life counter part, Ed O' Neill, is a rational and educated Liberal. I think that America would be better off without Bible-thumper Republicans.

[JollyRoger]

OK try this one on for size.

If Psychic where real they would have to know how to deal with society the trials and tribulations of everyday life like everybody else, IN addition to this they would havta know how to deal their woohoo super power within a society or end up in a mental institution with grandiose delusions, and doctors prodding and poking you trying to figure out why your psychic and how can they copy and paste your woohoo super power so they can cash in somehow:D

[Mojo]

I know that most of us here have a firm belief that psychic powers do not exist.


Assuming that by "most of us here" you mean skeptics, I would say that you are mistaken. "Most of us here" do not believe that psychic powers exist, but that is not the same as what you are claiming.

[JollyRoger]

I can see Psychic abilities as a possibility but I see no scientific evidence to back up any ones claims, Just a lot of snake oil salesmen, and the naive people they are selling to.

[I Ratant]

Is there an ongoing steroetype of what a Psychic would look like/act like? Would they be mysterious and dark type?
.
Both the deluded and the dishonest would make an effort to appear different from the run-of-the-mill average person, through clothing and personal grooming, for the deluded; the dishonest would add some manner of self-promotion to their public persona to attract victims.
The deluded when attempting this would scare away any normal people.

[JollyRoger]

Assuming their are such thing as Psychic, they would most likely know everything going on in todays society, continue to frustrate people's repeated attempts at exploitation them, as a result of their woo hoo super power, and end up living somewhere isolated from everyone just to get some peace and quite.

I kinda feel sorry for them, Im glad their is no such thing, I cant imagine an ability like that falling into the wrong hands

[5sisters]

I don't know if there are any real psychics. I do know there are such things as ghost or spirits.

[JollyRoger]

Well then Lets say that there are such things as psychics what possible reason could they have for not wanting a million bucks, I mean with the right investments you could be set for life and thats just with the dividends.

If I was a psychic, and there was a way I could pass the test. Randi would be handing the million over to me, a million may not seem like much to some but in the right hands it could be a nice retirement.

In the mean time Im just another working stiff trying to keep my head above water like everyone else.

[makaya325]

I don't know if there are any real psychics. I do know there are such things as ghost or spirits.

Can you please provide evidence for your claim?

[pfeenix]

IF such things as psychic really do exist I BELIEVE they would prefer to stay in the shadows. Because if they were really psychic they would know all the corruption that exist in the world today they would know how threatened people feel by the thought of "my secrets are no longer safe" and "this psychic can use my secrets against me" or "someone might use the psychic to get my secrets and use them against me" and they would also know how far the corrupted people are willing to go to maintain their life style.

Being psychic seems to be a very popular delusion, it gives you an illusion of control over your environment that most don't have. And gives you a feeling of importance and accomplishment that one may not normal be able to archive.

Just my two cents

hahaha....couldn't agree more. if i were a psychic (not saying i am), i'd be too afraid of becoming a lab rat to let people know about it....

[makaya325]

hahaha....couldn't agree more. if i were a psychic (not saying i am), i'd be too afraid of becoming a lab rat to let people know about it....

Would you put on a sinister, bad guy kind of image? Kind of like Snape from Harry Potter?

[dafydd]

I don't know if there are any real psychics. I do know there are such things as ghost or spirits.

I would like to see the evidence too.

[pfeenix]

Would you put on a sinister, bad guy kind of image? Kind of like Snape from Harry Potter?

hmm....i don't know....possibly....but would hat mean i'd have to be all broody, too?

[JollyRoger]

hahaha....couldn't agree more. if i were a psychic (not saying i am), i'd be too afraid of becoming a lab rat to let people know about it....


Could you imagine, everybody from the local media (people trying to make a name for themselves) to the U.S. Military.......(no comment) would be interested in you. Your private life is a thing of the past, and your life is no longer your own.

its no wonder none of them have come forward If they are Psychic they may already know whats gonna happen to them. Assuming their real:rolleyes:

[Klimax]

I think:
There are delusionists and then there are/will be technologists.

Those would be with required technology,which is on nanoscale or uses wormholes. (Sadly still only theoreticall)