BFF Leader Resigns

[Penamunde]

I just heard of Paul Vella's resignation from the AIBR and was just wondering if anyone else has heard of the reasons why?

I just find it Odd.:jaw-dropp

Thanks have a good one

[Blackdog]

Start here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4696706&postcount=1634) and follow the link at the top of the post to the BFF thread for more fun.

More here. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4701928&postcount=80)

[Penamunde]

Thanks Blackdog, I have been busy and just not able to intake all the info, but I also learned that Bipto has completely left the BFF. It just sounds like there is a lot of controversy and not a lot of actual research in these organizations and forums and small groups that focus on the operation would be more apt at the task. We should only hope that there are such groups in motion.

Have a good one

[Horatius]

So they weren't Best Friends Forever?


;)

[GT/CS]

Here is Paul's final post. Bipto also resigned.

First, let me say that I really hate to do this. You all know that Tom Yamarone and I have fallen out over this. Tom left the forum yesterday with the threat that if I didn't keep the thread open, he would effectively punish the people attending by imposing new restrictions on taking photos and reporting from the event, presumably by demanding copyright ownership on all photos.

I have offerred on SIX occasions over the course of last night to post a message of Tom's choosing to help ease the concerns of the BFF members attending the event, but Tom has steadfastly refused to discuss the issue with you.

I have been receiving numerous pms from concerned attendees, so I feel the need to provide an explanation. This is the ugly bottom line: Tom is pissed with me, has threatened legal action, engaged a 'lawyer' (who I think is his brother) because I have refused to delete his BFF account, and as a result, doesn't want anyone attending the event to post photos or discuss the event here.

I offerred Tom that I would post and ask those attending to refrain from posting photos of the event on BFF if that is what he wants, but he will not aknowledge my offer. The last I heard from Tom, he was planning to not say anything at the event, then afterward would tell you all that you are not allowed to post photos on BFF. His exact words were:




After they attend the event, they will be informed of what we are asking.
guess you'd have to be there to know.
I'll say, "We'll see who posts a photo of the bigfoot round-up at the bigfootforums. I doubt
any will." so nope, right now it's just business as usual. and of course, I misspoke.
sure, reporting from the event will occur...just not photographs...without the written permission of the bigfoot round-up.


Let me get this absolutely straight for you. Tom has sold tickets on the basis of an event with no photo restrictions. He cannot change that policy without offerring a refund, and since he is not forwarning you of the change, he could be personally liable for travel and accodation expenses to those who require a refund on the day because of his change in policy. Bottom line is this, you can take photos and post them wherever you like - Tom cannot impose copyright restrictions on your photos after promising a restriction free event.

I will leave it to those attending as to what you do with your photos - I couldn't care one way or the other.


As a result of Tom's legal threat, I resigned last night as a board member and member of AIBR effective immediately.

This thread is closed - there will be no discussion of this debarcle on this forum - this episode is done as far as I'm concerned.

Feel free to start a thread about the conference after it has taken place to discuss it, and I hope everyone attending has a really great time - it sounds like a great line up.


--------------------

Gone Fishing!

[Blackdog]

Paul's resignation from the AIBR tells me that Bobo and Yamarone weren't the only players that led to that decision.

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Wow, who would've thought that Bob Gimlin would actually be (accidentally) responsible for Bigfootery declining even further?

[Penamunde]

As I said in my last post, I hope smaller groups are moving forward and having good, no great results with the research of this mystery.

And thanks for the info guys.

[pchams]

Wow!
Sounds like a bunch of cackling loser crystal worshippers.
Make it a life work?.......I think not.

[Crowlogic]

maybe its all just a clever ruse.

[Penamunde]

Here is Paul's final post. Bipto also resigned.



This thread is closed - there will be no discussion of this debarcle on this forum - this episode is done as far as I'm concerned.

--------------------

Gone Fishing!

Well it seem that in other turmoils of the this kind there is always discussion and discussions on end, with some looking into back threads over at the BFF.

It seems to be a trend with them that they are so quick to discuss the socks off a subject or dirty laundry of others with reckless abandon but when it involves them there is no discussion or thread left to access for future viewing to check their story.

I said it before and will say it again. I have hope that smaller groups with more self control are moving this research forward, rather than these mis-guided in it for the ego organizations.

I'll get off my soap box but I felt that this needed to be pointed out.

Again have a good one.

[Drudgewire]

Debarcle?

[wicked_ways]

Debarcle?

I think a debarcle is a debacle with a bark in it? :rolleyes:

[Tricky]

They want to restrict pictures at the event? Something tells me that is not in the spirit of open inquiry. Or are they worried about being recognized?

[Kilaak Kommander]

For some reason, my spell check wants to change "debarcle" to "bindernagel". What the heck?

You have to feel sorry for Bill Munns here. He's put a lot of work into whatever he's presenting. He doesn't deserve to be overshadowed by this little, uh.... debarcle.

[Bill Munns]

Kilaak:

"You have to feel sorry for Bill Munns here. He's put a lot of work into whatever he's presenting. He doesn't deserve to be overshadowed by this little, uh.... debarcle. "

Thank you for your concern. It was an unfortunate incident.

That said, my report will stand on its own, apart from this event, once it's released Friday evening. Who knows. It might be its own debarcle (debacle, I think you mean), as some here seem to anticipate.

We'll see where it goes from there.

:)

Bill

[LTC8K6]

No, he meant debarcle...

It's definitely a debarcle.

A tree knockin' debarcle...

[LONGTABBER PE]

Paul's resignation from the AIBR tells me that Bobo and Yamarone weren't the only players that led to that decision.

There does seem to be a substantial backstory here

[mikeyx]

As I said in my last post, I hope smaller groups are moving forward and having good, no great results with the research of this mystery.

And thanks for the info guys.

Its always been my opinion that the more localized efforts are better just because they know their areas better and can be there more often, besides the bigger groups all seem to have their issues lately, infighting, etc

[mikeyx]

There does seem to be a substantial backstory here

Vella and Yamarone have been at odds before a little birdy tells me.

[LONGTABBER PE]

Vella and Yamarone have been at odds before a little birdy tells me.

Just as a casual observer, what I think I see supports that. This doesnt appear to be your regulat knee jerk reaction. Neither does Bipto's.

[Skeptical Greg]

They want to restrict pictures at the event? Something tells me that is not in the spirit of open inquiry. Or are they worried about being recognized?To be fair, the organizers never promoted it as an open inquiry..

It was pretty much promoted as " Friends ( fans ) Of Bob Gimlin Show Their Support ", ...

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that it followed in the wake of Bill Munns arrival at BFF with his proscribed goal of ' eliminating the impossible ' with regard to the nature of the subject in the film ..

Even though Munns has dropped his ' highly doubtful it's a suit ' hypothesis, his upcoming revelations appear to be the focal point of the event, with the anticipation of ' proof ' that the subject in the film is a real Bigfoot ...

[mikeyx]

To be fair, the organizers never promoted it as an open inquiry..

It was pretty much promoted as " Friends ( fans ) Of Bob Gimlin Show Their Support ", ...

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that it followed in the wake of Bill Munns arrival at BFF with his proscribed goal of ' eliminating the impossible ' with regard to the nature of the subject in the film ..

Even though Munns has dropped his ' highly doubtful it's a suit ' hypothesis, his upcoming revelations appear to be the focal point of the event, with the anticipation of ' proof ' that the subject in the film is a real Bigfoot ...


still, Herriot never based on any evidence presented to my knowledge, indicated any intention to be disruptive.

The decision seemed absolutely aribtrary, based on an old opinion, and Bobo and Yamarone come off looking like whackos in this, period.

The above resignations also for me, raise serious questions regarding the current AIBR leadership.

[Just Reading]

According to Vella on the BFF (http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=26391&pid=533419&st=0&#entry533419):

"As a result of Tom's legal threat, I resigned last night as a board member and member of AIBR effective immediately."

That sounds to me like he resigned because of the legal threat. According to their website both Vella and Yamarone were on their board of directors. Bipto appears to have just resigned from the BFF not the AIBR. Don't know what that means, if anything.

[Penamunde]

The above resignations also for me, raise serious questions regarding the current AIBR leadership.

That point was brought up a few months ago, maybe there's more than just smoke to this fire? In any case, it seems to me that the larger BF Org's have the same case of Irritable bowel syndrome:catfight: and there just in denial about it.

Have a good one

[LONGTABBER PE]

According to Vella on the BFF (http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=26391&pid=533419&st=0&#entry533419):

"As a result of Tom's legal threat, I resigned last night as a board member and member of AIBR effective immediately."

That sounds to me like he resigned because of the legal threat. According to their website both Vella and Yamarone were on their board of directors. Bipto appears to have just resigned from the BFF not the AIBR. Don't know what that means, if anything.

I dont presume to speak for Paul but I believe he is responding because a threat was made ( as in last straw and had enough) rather than any fear of the threat having any teeth.

[LONGTABBER PE]

still, Herriot never based on any evidence presented to my knowledge, indicated any intention to be disruptive.
The decision seemed absolutely aribtrary, based on an old opinion, and Bobo and Yamarone come off looking like whackos in this, period.

The above resignations also for me, raise serious questions regarding the current AIBR leadership.

Agreed, I think this was nothing more than petty meanness from a juvenile delinquent in a man's body.

[Penamunde]

"As a result of Tom's legal threat, I resigned last night as a board member and member of AIBR effective immediately."



Well it seems to me that, if your going to reach into the legal weaponry bag then you better be sure that there is some meat to be ripped of the bone.

So one has to wonder, if both were on the the board of directors of the AIBR then the one that left, so abruptly I might add may have had something to fear from the one with the bag of tricks, or the one with the bag of tricks just simply had enough of others antics.

And decided that its time for radical surgery, the only problem with this thinking is you always will wonder if you cut enough of the toxic tissues out or continue cutting even if its to the bone.

Just food for thought, maybe the discussions a few months back about this very thing were more on target than previously thought?

Have a good one.

[darkwing]

http://bigfootery.blogspot.com/ is a link to a blog that is interesting, given who the author is.

sorry, thought everyone should read who the author of that blog is.

it appears that Paul has less to worry about now anyway, with no longer being over the AIBR.

[Penamunde]

is a link to a blog that is interesting, given who the author is.

sorry, thought everyone should read who the author of that blog is.

it appears that Paul has less to worry about now anyway, with no longer being over the AIBR.

Thanks for the link, I will check it out. As for Paul Vella maybe with the extra time he can make noteworthy improvements to the forum and less of what has been for the lack of a better term "Sump Waste"


Have a good one

[manofthesea]

Paul


He's refered to by the acronym CM'CTP around here. (Crazy Mofo 'Cross The Pond)

[Penamunde]

He's refered to by the acronym CM'CTP around here. (Crazy Mofo 'Cross The Pond)

:D

Thanks for the info and have a great afternoon.

[kitakaze]

Isn't this thread title somewhat misleading? I think it might have been more appropriately named "BFF Leader Resigns From Bigfoot Organization Which is Unrelated to the BFF", no?

[kitakaze]

http://bigfootery.blogspot.com/ is a link to a blog that is interesting, given who the author is.

sorry, thought everyone should read who the author of that blog is.

it appears that Paul has less to worry about now anyway, with no longer being over the AIBR.

Hi, Darren. How's things over your way? Must be a lot airier around there without Stink Maker funking the place up. Hey, I know you really don't like Paul Vella (he sorta spurred you into setting up your forum) but don't you think it's gob-smackingly cult behaviour when a couple of jackass Bigfoot fanatics deny a fellow Bigfoot enthusiast entry to a big event because of reservations regarding the PGF they expressed four years ago and then letting him know he would have been physically assaulted if he showed up. Like, if circumstances were different and I had been able to attend, should I expect Fanatic Chimp Bobo to come out literally swinging at me?

That would be some headline, no? "Bigfoot Fanatic Pulls Jim Callahan On PGF Doubter" I would love to see that. I would love to see one of those idiots actually try to get violent if somebody during Q&A with The Gimlin got up and asked him about his relationship with Bob Heironimus and BH's presence in the film.

[Penamunde]

Isn't this thread title somewhat misleading? I think it might have been more appropriately named "BFF Leader Resigns From Bigfoot Organization Which is Unrelated to the BFF", no?

I stand corrected Kitakaze,

[Myriad]

Okay, I've done the best I could. To be honest after reading through this whole thread several times, reading links, and looking up names and acronyms, I still have no idea what any of you are talking about. I think, though, that I've been able to identify a bunch of posts that, although I have no idea what they're talking about either, seem to be about something different than whatever the original bunch of posts are about. I've split those other posts to a different thread.

If I've done it wrong for some reason, feel free to send me an explanation of what I should have done and why, but I really really hope that is not necessary.

Please be mindful of Rule 11 of your Membership Agreement, and whatever the heck the topic is, stay on it from now on.

[kitakaze]

Myriad, maybe I can help clear this up a bit...

Who:

Paul Vella, guy from Ireland who is the owner and admin of the largest Bigfoot enthusiast forum on the internet, The Bigfoot Forums (http://www.bigfootforums.com/) (BFF).

What:

Mr. Vella resigned from a separate group, the Alliance of Independant Bigfoot Researchers (http://www.bigfootresearch.com/) (AIBR).

Why:

Bob Gimlin, of the Patterson-Gimlin Film, alleged witness to the filming of a Bigfoot in 1967 is the center of an event this weekend on May 16th called The Yakima Bigfoot Round-Up (http://www.mcclean.org/bigfootsongs/2008_12_01_archive.html). The organizers of this event are Paul Graves (http://www.northamericanbigfoot.com/CulturalImpact/ArtArtists/PaulGraves.html), Tom Yamarone (http://www.bigfootsongs.com/), and James "Bobo" Fay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ArFZPVsks&feature=related) (from 2:22). The organizers had used the BFF to promote their event to members for many months and offered a waiting list for tickets. One person on the list was a fellow enthusiast, Scott Herriott (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq7_5DZ3Ik8&feature=related) (seen here from about 1:45 on CNN with Anderson Cooper). Recently, Herriott was notified by Yamarone that he was denied attendance and would not be welcome because of perceived insults to Bob Gimlin's integrity. After this denial was posted on the BFF it was shown that the slight in question was reservations Herriott had expressed four years earlier in a post at the BFF where he relayed the words of writer Greg Long's book on the Patterson-Gimlin Film whom refers to an arrest warrant for theft by Gimlin. Herriott was arguing that there might be at least some reason not to argue that Gimlin was beyond reproach.

Fellow organizer James "Bobo" Fey then told Herriott that they were doing him a favour by denying access to the event and that those doubts he had expressed four years ago would result in him being physically assaulted should he attend. Paul Vella, after learning details of the events, demanded that Yamarone and Fey apologize for their actions and told them they would no longer be allowed to use his forum to promote and event which discriminated against certain members of the board. Yamarone refused and threatened to claim copyright control on any pictures taken at the event (like an idiot) so that the photos could not be posted at the BFF. Paul then closed all threads related to the Gimlin event and resigned from the AIBR, which presumably the organizers were involved with as well.

Here is an internet radio interview with Paul Graves and Tom Yamarone regarding the upcoming event:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/TheGreyArea/2009/04/23/Tom-Yamarone-Paul-Graves

[GT/CS]

Okay, I've done the best I could. To be honest after reading through this whole thread several times, reading links, and looking up names and acronyms, I still have no idea what any of you are talking about. I think, though, that I've been able to identify a bunch of posts that, although I have no idea what they're talking about either, seem to be about something different than whatever the original bunch of posts are about.

......Snip



That's one of the funniest things I've read in a long time!!!

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

He's refered to by the acronym CM'CTP around here. (Crazy Mofo 'Cross The Pond)

Wasn't it actually "The madman across the water?" My plugging "CM'CTP" and "Crazy Mofo 'Cross The Pond" into the "Search" feature yielded only your posts in this thread.

[kitakaze]

It was translated to MOTSerella - slightly baked.

[kitakaze]

Moving part of Darkwing's post that belongs in this thread:

Me and Paul buried the hatchet last week officially, but I do think that restricting pictures taken there from being displayed because the event holders are claiming "copyright" on pictures taken by others with their own equipment is going too far. I also think that it got out of hand with the letter sent to Scott about his views of the PGF, as everyone is entitled to their own opinions about it.

To threaten someone with physical assault is on the level of Jr. High School kids, along with trying to always bad-mouth them like certain individuals seem to always do here about others.

I thought you would agree with that. I think threatening violence is on another level from negative criticism. When and where did you and Paul make up?

[Myriad]

Myriad, maybe I can help clear this up a bit...


Thank you, kitakaze. It was very considerate of you to take the time to write that. (And also to restore the relevant part of Darkwing's post.) It hope it will make the thread less of a puzzle for other readers too.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[kitakaze]

Thank you, kitakaze. It was very considerate of you to take the time to write that. (And also to restore the relevant part of Darkwing's post.) It hope it will make the thread less of a puzzle for other readers too.

Respectfully,
Myriad

My pleasure. The funny thing is that if you listen to that interview I linked which was from three weeks ago, the guys mention the JREF as being a place that suggested the event was being done to make money for Gimlin and that many people from the BFF donated to help make the event happen. Now they're trying to punish the BFF for being told not to act like cult freaks. It's already in this thread and the Yakima Round-Up thread (I'm not sure this really needs its own thread but whatever) but Tom Yamarone stated that he would be informing people after they attended that they are asking everyone not to post pictures on the BFF - the BFF place where they advertised for months and got donations. The BFF that they relied on to make the event happen with very little actual advertisement. They apparently forgot what country they live in and thought they lived in the People's Democratic Republic of Kool-Aid. Say sorry for denying a fellow Bigfoot enthusiast based on the way we mistakenly perceived a post they made *four* *years* *ago* and told would have faced violence if they did appear? No, we'll just try to impose copyright restrictions that we have literally zero basis, reason, or right to make and threaten the internet group that allowed us make the event possible.

Total cult freak jackasses.

[SezMe]

It hope it will make the thread less of a puzzle for other readers too.
Sorry, didn't work. :)

One of the problems here - and elsewhere; the 911 threads come to mind - is that insiders refer to people by their real names instead of by their handles here. For those not in the know, it makes it almost impossible to follow the action.

[kitakaze]

Sorry, didn't work. :)

One of the problems here - and elsewhere; the 911 threads come to mind - is that insiders refer to people by their real names instead of by their handles here. For those not in the know, it makes it almost impossible to follow the action.

Really? Well, I tried. Regarding what makes you confused, that might be something when it involves people who post here. In my explanatory post none of the people I mentioned by name post at the JREF (that we know of but I'm pretty they don't). It's all people and events that were not related to JREF members.

[SezMe]

You did a good job, kitakaze, I was not faulting you. As you mention, your posts refer to events, people, etc. not here so to really get a good overall picture it is necessary to have at least some grasp of decades of history and a gazillion posts, here and elsewhere. Well, for me anyway, and I'm just not willing to spend the time.

So I shouldn't have posted in this thread, you say? Yeah, you're probably right, but the name/nic confusion is just a pet peeve of mine.

[FFed]

wow, what a gong show.

[kitakaze]

You did a good job, kitakaze, I was not faulting you. As you mention, your posts refer to events, people, etc. not here so to really get a good overall picture it is necessary to have at least some grasp of decades of history and a gazillion posts, here and elsewhere. Well, for me anyway, and I'm just not willing to spend the time.

So I shouldn't have posted in this thread, you say? Yeah, you're probably right, but the name/nic confusion is just a pet peeve of mine.

Thanks and not at all.:)

You should absolutely join in if you'd like to but the who-hey-in-the-what-now? is not clear. Given that it revolves around events which we already have a thread for, I don't think we needed a separate thread but that's just me and no offence intended to the thread starter. Oh Jesus lord help me, I'm falling down the stairs if I didn't follow Bigfootery and I had to try and figure out what was going on this week. I imagine if I was masochistic to try and join in on a 9/11 thread, I still would have no idea what's what and who did what to whom without a pie chart and a mime...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/896149b0dd26ac40b.bmp (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=15554)

[makaya325]

Thanks and not at all.:)

You should absolutely join in if you'd like to but the who-hey-in-the-what-now? is not clear. Given that it revolves around events which we already have a thread for, I don't think we needed a separate thread but that's just me and no offence intended to the thread starter. Oh Jesus lord help me, I'm falling down the stairs if I didn't follow Bigfootery and I had to try and figure out what was going on this week. I imagine if I was masochistic to try and join in on a 9/11 thread, I still would have no idea what's what and who did what to whom without a pie chart and a mime...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/896149b0dd26ac40b.bmp (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=15554)

Does anyone know Sasquatch's stance on Obama's Stimulus plan?

[Miss_Kitt]

He contemplated the described legislation for a moment, and then threw a pig and made unearthy howls. The precise meaning of this response is still being debated.

[makaya325]

He contemplated the described legislation for a moment, and then threw a pig and made unearthy howls. The precise meaning of this response is still being debated.

Wasnt squatch quoted as saying that Obama is "Intellectually arrogant"? (Visions of that loser Haggard from that quote)

[GT/CS]

Wasnt squatch quoted as saying that Obama is "Intellectually arrogant"? (Visions of that loser Haggard from that quote)

Move it to the politics section if you want to talk about Obama.

[xblade]

Does anyone know Sasquatch's stance on Obama's Stimulus plan?

Squatch is too busy being visually stimulated by #93 on Maxim's 2009 Hot 100 list (http://www.maxim.com/girls/articles/79154/2009-hot-100.html).

Move it to the politics section if you want to talk about Obama.

Or at least start a new thread under Skepticism and the Paranormal. :)

[Penamunde]

Okay, I've done the best I could. To be honest after reading through this whole thread several times, reading links, and looking up names and acronyms, I still have no idea what any of you are talking about. I think, though, that I've been able to identify a bunch of posts that, although I have no idea what they're talking about either, seem to be about something different than whatever the original bunch of posts are about. I've split those other posts to a different thread.

If I've done it wrong for some reason, feel free to send me an explanation of what I should have done and why, but I really really hope that is not necessary.

Please be mindful of Rule 11 of your Membership Agreement, and whatever the heck the topic is, stay on it from now on.


Thanks for you attention Myriad, sorry its a little late I'm in route back from Yakima.

[tsig]

Does anyone know Sasquatch's stance on Obama's Stimulus plan?

Wide.

[tsig]

He contemplated the described legislation for a moment, and then threw a pig and made unearthy howls. The precise meaning of this response is still being debated.

He is obviously against pork barrel spending. Must be a fiscal conservative and his howls are howls of dismay at the current situation.

never ask for whom the squatch howls

He howls for you.

[Blackdog]

It seems this little episode isn't over yet. (http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=26673&view=findpost&p=539609)


Thread title
I've been banned from the AIBR website., It never ceases to amaze me.As you know, I recently resigned as a Director and member of AIBR, but it seems that as of this morning, I am unable to log into the public AIBR forum to access my pms - I had assumed that I would still be able to access the public forum and my PM account just as anyone who registers on the website can, but it seems I have been banned without explanation.

Given that I pay to host the AIBR website, this is an unbelieveably cheap shot in my opinion.





I think the problem lies that recently someone within the AIBR forwarded me a post made by Tom Yamarone where he claims that he didn't threaten to sue me - I asked Kathy Strain if I could post a rebuttal statement, including a copy of Tom's email to me where he did in fact threaten to take legal action against me, but was told that the AIBR board (I assume it was a board decision, Kathy said "we") decided it would not be appropriate for me to post a rebuttal.


With that, I was summarily banned from the AIBR website.

Thanks guys. I am so glad I resigned when I did.

Response from tugboatwa, BFF Administrator and Secretary of the AIBR

... I assume it was a board decision...
It was.

I closed this topic as I don't believe it is appropriate to discuss the inner workings of the AIBR here.

On one hand I find this kind of sad on the other I find it ironic on a personal level.

[Pywacket]

I hear ya, BD.

What I find funny is tugboatwa's response that the thread was closed because "I don't believe it is appropriate to discuss the inner workings of the AIBR here."

The reason I find it funny is because, as a former member of the AIBR (I resigned shortly after Paul), even the members of the AIBR weren't privy to the "inner workings" of the AIBR. ;)

[Penamunde]

It seems there willing to talk about others dirty laundry till heck wont have it....but when it comes to their BS Tug a Boatha wont have it.

Hypocrites one and all.....

[WGBH]

If I may give an opinion. For everyone not familiar with the "Bigfoot Community" this may seem like a big deal. News flash: it's just ANOTHER sad example of people in the field not being able to get along.

Scott Herriott:

Is a nice person. Had a supposed Bigfoot encounter caught on video. (But I cant see anything, sorry). Is a funny guy. Is entitled to his opinion on the PGF.

That said:
He also acted like a scorned whiny high school boy who was not invited to "the cool school party" when he posted that private e-mail on the BFF Then he had the nerve to act surprised when the attack dogs went into high gear. I mean some of those people acted more angry then Scott was, Paul Vella included. They tried to spin it into a freedom of speech issue. Many of the folks in the BFF and on this forum latched onto that and ran with it.

Paul Vella:

Appears to be a smart man. His big claim to fame is being the owner of the BFF. I would not classify him as a Bigfoot researcher, therefore any Bigfoot group will be fine without him, including the AIBR. His main talent on display at the BFF seems to be not getting along with others.

Bipto: Followed his friends out the door.

Tom Yamerone:

And the others who organized the round-up as a tribute to Bob Gimlin. There was screening done to the people requesting a ticket that he was not familiar with, including myself. I had no problem with the questions he asked at all. It is HIS PARTY and he can invite whomever he wants. It was not an event targeted to skeptics of the film. They were only protecting their friend from confrontations he did not want, especially at this celebration. Skeptics who want to question the presentations should attend public conferences like the TBRC, The Ohio and the PA conferences, just to name a few.

Do not turn this into a freedom of speech issue. It is not.

I am not defending this position of not allowing skeptics in at all. I also do not personally agree, but it was not my party. I am simply explaining the facts. If you were having a party for your friend, would you invite people who may possibly criticize him? Heck no, you would not.

This problem should have been discussed and handled privately between Scott and Tom like adults. Not dirty laundry airing on the BFF.

In the end NO ONE involved in this acted like adults.

[Penamunde]

Not dirty laundry airing on the BFF.

In the end NO ONE involved in this acted like adults.

Now I will agree with you on the not acting like adults part.

But, the Kool Kids Klub at the BarFF and even joint work at the AIBR, the airing of dirty laundry is the Hallmark of these two groups. Unless its about them, I know you need proof just look in the history of how they have dealt with GCBRO, MABRC, and a host of other groups and individuals too.

Whats good for the goose is apparently not good for the gander, but others are watching and recording there embarrassment.

[Blackdog]

Here's where I'm going to disagree with you John, to the people in the "Bigfoot Community" it is a big deal, to the people not in it it doesn't mean squat. I was even hesitant to post it here but I thought it was relevant to the OP.

[GT/CS]

If I may give an opinion. For everyone not familiar with the "Bigfoot Community" this may seem like a big deal. News flash: it's just ANOTHER sad example of people in the field not being able to get along.

Scott Herriott:

Is a nice person. Had a supposed Bigfoot encounter caught on video. (But I cant see anything, sorry). Is a funny guy. Is entitled to his opinion on the PGF.

That said:
He also acted like a scorned whiny high school boy who was not invited to "the cool school party" when he posted that private e-mail on the BFF Then he had the nerve to act surprised when the attack dogs went into high gear. I mean some of those people acted more angry then Scott was, Paul Vella included. They tried to spin it into a freedom of speech issue. Many of the folks in the BFF and on this forum latched onto that and ran with it.

Paul Vella:

Appears to be a smart man. His big claim to fame is being the owner of the BFF. I would not classify him as a Bigfoot researcher, therefore any Bigfoot group will be fine without him, including the AIBR. His main talent on display at the BFF seems to be not getting along with others.

Bipto: Followed his friends out the door.

Tom Yamerone:

And the others who organized the round-up as a tribute to Bob Gimlin. There was screening done to the people requesting a ticket that he was not familiar with, including myself. I had no problem with the questions he asked at all. It is HIS PARTY and he can invite whomever he wants. It was not an event targeted to skeptics of the film. They were only protecting their friend from confrontations he did not want, especially at this celebration. Skeptics who want to question the presentations should attend public conferences like the TBRC, The Ohio and the PA conferences, just to name a few.

Do not turn this into a freedom of speech issue. It is not.

I am not defending this position of not allowing skeptics in at all. I also do not personally agree, but it was not my party. I am simply explaining the facts. If you were having a party for your friend, would you invite people who may possibly criticize him? Heck no, you would not.

This problem should have been discussed and handled privately between Scott and Tom like adults. Not dirty laundry airing on the BFF.

In the end NO ONE involved in this acted like adults.

This thread is about the head of the BFF resigning from the AIBR so please don't derail it onto the Gimlin party fiasco.

We have a couple grouchy bigfoot-hating mods ;)who don't like it when we derail and they show their displeasure with red text in boxes. Did you see the example of that a few posts back?

[WGBH]

This thread is about the head of the BFF resigning from the AIBR so please don't derail it onto the Gimlin party fiasco.

We have a couple grouchy bigfoot-hating mods ;)who don't like it when we derail and they show their displeasure with red text in boxes. Did you see the example of that a few posts back?

Oh, I'm sorry. I guess its in the wrong place. My apologies. But, this is basically what led to Paul's resignation from the AIBR. They are related topics.

[WGBH]

Here's where I'm going to disagree with you John, to the people in the "Bigfoot Community" it is a big deal, to the people not in it it doesn't mean squat. I was even hesitant to post it here but I thought it was relevant to the OP.

BD, I am sorry that it affected you. What I meant to convey, it that it happens all the time. Has there been a Bigfoot get together this year that has not caused some type of spat? Come on, you can see the pattern, cant you?

[Blackdog]

IMO this goes a whole lot deeper than the Herriott kerfufal, I have a unique perspective on this that you don't. To qualify, there are a lot of things in that never make it to the public boards.
This is like a starving pack of coyotes eating there own. I've seen this before with some of the players involved and I'm seeing it again.

[WGBH]

Now I will agree with you on the not acting like adults part.

But, the Kool Kids Klub at the BarFF and even joint work at the AIBR, the airing of dirty laundry is the Hallmark of these two groups. Unless its about them, I know you need proof just look in the history of how they have dealt with GCBRO, MABRC, and a host of other groups and individuals too.

Whats good for the goose is apparently not good for the gander, but others are watching and recording there embarrassment.

The "cool kids club" quote was just a silly joke Mr. Smith. Don't read more into it then that.

[Penamunde]

Again Im not this Mr Smith that was a rumor that was started by TGS

[WGBH]

IMO this goes a whole lot deeper than the Herriott kerfufal, I have a unique perspective on this that you don't. To qualify, there are a lot of things in that never make it to the public boards.
This is like a starving pack of coyotes eating there own. I've seen this before with some of the players involved and I'm seeing it again.

I am aware of some of the things you are speaking about BD,but maybe not to the degree you are. You are right on the nose. It is exactly what you are describing. Coyotes turning on each other and feasting.

[mikeyx]

I hear ya, BD.

What I find funny is tugboatwa's response that the thread was closed because "I don't believe it is appropriate to discuss the inner workings of the AIBR here."

The reason I find it funny is because, as a former member of the AIBR (I resigned shortly after Paul), even the members of the AIBR weren't privy to the "inner workings" of the AIBR. ;)

I was on their website comittee at one time and I certainly wasn't. Poor organization, poor communication, too much politics and elitism. Simple. The AIBR has become a joke.

[Blackdog]

The AIBR was at the beginning all about a certain couple. They were the ones people looked at as being maybe the most influential and well connected. It was pretty much set up their way without much objection, those that objected left at the beginning.
I don't know but I suspect things haven't changed much since then.

[mikeyx]

The AIBR was at the beginning all about a certain couple. They were the ones people looked at as being maybe the most influential and well connected. It was pretty much set up their way without much objection, those that objected left at the beginning.
I don't know but I suspect things haven't changed much since then.

And before all that a certain crowd approached Matt moneymaker to change the internal workings of the BFRO, and they didn't their way, so they left, and thus was formed the AIR, cuz the same group couldn't get along, and thus was born the AIBR and SRI, and both have since seen some element of turmoil, because the same inner core group, STILL can't get along.

I've heard two versions of the AIBR breakup:

1) Tom Y is leading it down the road to ruin and all foolks with "good conscience" left
2) There was an attempt by SRI related folks to stack the deck of the AIBR bod, eliminating Tom Y and Kathy Strain

In the end, imho, it really doesn't matter, because the same crowd still just can't get along. It's like watching children bicker. End op-ed.

[William Parcher]

Paul Vella has returned to being active and posting on the BFF.

[tsig]

Paul Vella has returned to being active and posting on the BFF.

So forever only lasts a year in footerland.

[Stellafane]

So forever only lasts a year in footerland.

Well, by necessity BF supporters need short memories.

[kitakaze]

I think it's great that Paul Vella has come back. It would be nice to have Brian Brown, the original owner, around, too. Considering that it was the cultoid behaviour of the Gimlin Guard and PGF Mafia that affected Paul's departure from Bigfootery, and the fact that the BFF is under the best leadership it could ever hope to have, it's a sign of positive changes.

I consider the fact that the BFF can not only tolerate, but in fact welcome me, as pretty cool. Cryptomumble took a dirtnap and I am a regular poster at the BFF...

NzlG28B-R8Y

[William Parcher]

I think it's great that Paul Vella has come back.

...it was the cultoid behaviour of the Gimlin Guard and PGF Mafia that affected Paul's departure from Bigfootery


Paul has some really screwed up ideas about the PGF. These are notes taken during a lecture he gave...


Paul considers Patterson to have been in the right place at the right time.

Calf muscles can be seen to bulge as the creature walks. This would be impossible to fake, as gorilla suits do not have muscles.

Patterson did not make money on the film, simply because whatever he did make was ploughed back into research.

Furthermore, why would you fake film footage showing a creature with breasts in puritanical 1967 America? It would be guaranteed not to be shown.

Paul Vella concludes by saying that if the creature is not Bigfoot, it is certainly a very good hoax. And whatever else it may be, it is certainly not Hieronymous in a suit.

[mikeyx]

I think it's great that Paul Vella has come back. It would be nice to have Brian Brown, the original owner, around, too. Considering that it was the cultoid behaviour of the Gimlin Guard and PGF Mafia that affected Paul's departure from Bigfootery, and the fact that the BFF is under the best leadership it could ever hope to have, it's a sign of positive changes.

I consider the fact that the BFF can not only tolerate, but in fact welcome me, as pretty cool. Cryptomumble took a dirtnap and I am a regular poster at the BFF...

NzlG28B-R8Y

And here I thought you were a skeptic. You almost sound a groupie there, big fella.

[kitakaze]

Paul has some really screwed up ideas about the PGF. These are notes taken during a lecture he gave...

That's all drinkspit to me. What's great is that there are no shortage of people at the BFF that think I have screwy ideas about the PGF, but the PGF Mafia can't touch me, I'm free to take it to the community at the BFF, and as long as I don't have a bout of Tourette's, there is no way the BFF will pull a Hovey and have me banned.

Meanwhile, where are the PGF elite? Where is the PGF's Ivan Drago (http://sanjurocommunity.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/article-1173697-002a777900000258-16_468x374.jpg)? Where is the PGF bruiser who will come and pummel me with superior investigative skills and knowledge of the PGF? Where is Roger Knights? Chris Murphy? Rick Noll? Something very weird is happening. One by one Bigfooters are coming around and realizing the PGF is a hoax, Bob Heironimus and Phil Morris are not a liars, and realizing the PGF's days are numbered. The PGF champions have gone fishing. Old rivalries are ending, there is cooperation between skeptics and proponents, and some Bigfooters are getting ready to let go of an icon. Others are not so ready to let it go, but through their words and actions, we can see they know the writing is on the wall. It's a Bizarro World.

[William Parcher]

The Good Ole Days (http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1782) on the BFF. Back when 40% of the Bigfooters believed the Albert Ostman Bigfoot kidnapping story.

I tend to think he was making it up, but I'm hesitant to write it off totally since John Green said in Apes that he (at least in 1978) was leaning towards believing him.

Undecided....(you know you expected me to say no ) agin its the lack of info but couples with the consistency of the story over a long period of time,plus details that one would expect to emerge from several days (?) with them,and just to throw this in Dahinden along with Green also believed him...

If it's good enough for the Bigfooter Gods it's good enough for them.

[William Parcher]

One by one Bigfooters are coming around and realizing the PGF is a hoax, Bob Heironimus and Phil Morris are not a liars, and realizing the PGF's days are numbered.

The PGF champions have gone fishing. Old rivalries are ending, there is cooperation between skeptics and proponents, and some Bigfooters are getting ready to let go of an icon. Others are not so ready to let it go, but through their words and actions, we can see they know the writing is on the wall. It's a Bizarro World.


You are going to be in for a big surprise. You will be stunned at the number and names of Bigfooters who do not switch to the hoax camp. Only a Gimlin confession will accomplish that. If he doesn't confess your work will have little affect on the Pattycakes no matter how convincing your argument is. You will be amazed at the number of people who completely ignore your work and those who watch closely but pretend to have never even heard of it.

[William Parcher]

One by one Bigfooters are coming around and realizing the PGF is a hoax...


Can you name some who have recently gone from "it's real" to "it's a hoax" after you started posting on BFF?

[kitakaze]

And here I thought you were a skeptic. You almost sound a groupie there, big fella.

I am a skeptic. One that can post on a Bigfoot website and participate in a civil manner without getting the cult treatment. I'm also a friend of the BFF's new boss. It's weird, I know. That's what happens when people go around being friendly and respectful - friendships happen.

I don't spin my wheels jumping on any petty excuses to squabble and derail threads left and right with my poor temper. I don't band up in silly little Bigfoot cliques that sit around and spend no-bigfoot days doing nothing but taking shots at each other like the Baseball Furies and The Hi-Hats. If Bigfootery is like The Warriors, wouldn't that make the American Bigfoot Society The Orphans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1PVUvphYzg)? (NSFW)

Are you telling me you have had zero desire to participate at the BFF? Doesn't it get boring being in a broom closet with Sweaty and his scribbles, Bill Miller still with the dippy Bluff Creek massacre staleness, and Melissa and her three fans. Sweet Zombie Jesus, I would get tired of that quick. I know John did. You must have, right?

[kitakaze]

Can you name some who have recently gone from "it's real" to "it's a hoax" after you started posting on BFF

Just off the top of my head, I don't know if I can take credit - I think that credit first goes to the person who changes their mind and then goes to the all of us skeptics who spend more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot and digging up all the PGF stuff - I know ol' mangy Black Dog went from a 5 (total confidence in reality) to a 1 (total confidence in hoax). Also, in the Bigfoot community, I see signs not as obvious as people proclaiming their abandonment of the PGF icon that tell me they have stopped believing. It's, of course, a subjective opinion thing, but I think I see it.

Remember a while back when you suggested I start a poll to see what people think of the PGF now? I suggested it and Bill adopted it and went ahead with it. I consider even the 3's and 4's to be interesting, especially coming from people who a year ago would have tapped 5 in a heartbeat. Crow is one guy I think is coming around and seeing the writing on the wall. I have no doubt you've seen the thread, but here is a link for those who haven't...

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=29997

[kitakaze]

You are going to be in for a big surprise. You will be stunned at the number and names of Bigfooters who do not switch to the hoax camp. Only a Gimlin confession will accomplish that. If he doesn't confess your work will have little affect on the Pattycakes no matter how convincing your argument is. You will be amazed at the number of people who completely ignore your work and those who watch closely but pretend to have never even heard of it.

You may be right. I think the majority are waiting to see what's going to pop. Something's going to pop, and it's either going to be me or the PGF. I agree that convincing arguments are rain on a duck for diehard PGF fans. That's why I am after proof. I have explained to the Bigfoot community that I am committed to either exposing once and for all the PGF as a hoax, or stumbling into its reality in the process. One way or another they get a good show.

[WGBH]

Joshua,

Please,please.please just once in this documentary say Sweet Zombie Jesus on camera. :D

[kitakaze]

Done. I think I let out a Sweet Fancy Moses or two during the Morris interview, but it's not the same, is it?

[HarryHenderson]

The Good Ole Days (http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1782) on the BFF. Back when 40% of the Bigfooters believed the Albert Ostman Bigfoot kidnapping story.
<bipto scribble>
<jimf scribble>
If it's good enough for the Bigfooter Gods it's good enough for them.
:D That's comedy.

[William Parcher]

Just off the top of my head, I don't know if I can take credit - I think that credit first goes to the person who changes their mind and then goes to the all of us skeptics who spend more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot and digging up all the PGF stuff - I know ol' mangy Black Dog went from a 5 (total confidence in reality) to a 1 (total confidence in hoax). Also, in the Bigfoot community, I see signs not as obvious as people proclaiming their abandonment of the PGF icon that tell me they have stopped believing. It's, of course, a subjective opinion thing, but I think I see it.

Remember a while back when you suggested I start a poll to see what people think of the PGF now? I suggested it and Bill adopted it and went ahead with it. I consider even the 3's and 4's to be interesting, especially coming from people who a year ago would have tapped 5 in a heartbeat. Crow is one guy I think is coming around and seeing the writing on the wall. I have no doubt you've seen the thread, but here is a link for those who haven't...

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=29997


We'll let Blackdog specify if you sent him from real to hoax. Crow is meaningless because he is a dishonest player.

Munns' poll is unfortunate in its format. He didn't even create a normal click-to-vote setup. You have to post your vote. How stupid is that? Because countless lurkers are not going to vote. There is no chance for anonymous voting. It kills the poll. Bill's poll has about 40 voters. The last PGF poll (click-to-vote) had about 160 voters. Take a look (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5924891&postcount=250).

Bill's new poll has 5 possible votes. I'm considering 1&2 to be votes for "real" and 4&5 to be votes for "hoax". The 3 vote is undecided. Results are approx:

61% (23) voted real.
18% (7) voted hoax.
21% (8) voted undecided.


Again the results from 2004 were:

74% (117) voted real.
6% (10) voted hoax.
20% (32) voted undecided.

You might be tempted to say that belief has dropped but the two polls are not apples to apples because the formats are drastically different. Though the percentage of skeptics (voted hoax) has increased the total number has dropped from 10 to 7.

Now look at the fairly recent results of the "Heironimus Poll". There were 42% saying the PGF is or might be a hoax. Why did that suddenly drop to 18% calling it a hoax?

My suspicion is that PGF belief is still holding steady at 70-80% in the Bigfooter community.

[Teresa.Hall]

For what it's worth, I tend to think there is something to the information that Kitakaze is revealing. I'm learning new information from him that I had not been afforded before. It may not make a difference to everyone, but it makes a difference to me.

I don't see how any animal could have that baggy diaper butt look naturally. That's just me though.

[William Parcher]

For what it's worth, I tend to think there is something to the information that Kitakaze is revealing. I'm learning new information from him that I had not been afforded before. It may not make a difference to everyone, but it makes a difference to me.

I don't see how any animal could have that baggy diaper butt look naturally. That's just me though.

Yet your response to the poll sounds different. Why don't you tell the BFF how you really feel?

3. I'm not convinced either way.

I am on the fence as I have been for a long time. I'm open to the possibility there are sasquatches but there's no proof. I'm also open to the idea that the whole thing was a hoax but there's no concrete proof of that either. I don't think this will ever be resolved one way or the other.

[WGBH]

WP said:
"Crow is meaningless because he is a dishonest player."



WP, who are you talking about here?

[William Parcher]

Who do you think gets called Crow around here?

[Blackdog]

No no Kit didn't take from a 5 to a 1.
He may have gotten confused by my reply in that thread where I said I went from a 5 to a 1 but 5 was a long time ago.

[LTC8K6]

I thought the "diaper butt" appearance was not real, but an illusion caused by debris and by Patty's hand.

Left hand swinging back causes droopy butt appearance:

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/e12b96d67b1521858cc08c76a959f0ef6g.jpg

Left hand now moved foward a bit and not visible. No more diaper butt.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/38c26c5d5b9e6202a19ac0b3169ba0bd5g.jpg

[parnassus]

Something very weird is happening. One by one Bigfooters are coming around and realizing the PGF is a hoax,
Back in my college days, I read a book called When Prophesy Fails, by Leon Festinger, a psychologist at Stanford. It should be required reading for anyone interested in The Bigfoot Phenomenon. It describes how cults react to the failure of the predictions.
It is fascinating to watch Bigfootery begin the same process described in When Prophesy Fails.
According to Festinger's work, we can predict that a significant number of the less committed footers will peel off, but another substantial group will become immune to evidence and ever more irrational. With all due respect to kit, the phenomenon has already started: Autumn Williams and her Enoch is an amazing example of that: total rejection of science, journalism, the rules of evidence, and common sense. I would suggest that the BFRO will be a long term irrational group, because they have committed to the cult through actions, initiations, proselytizing, donations, socialization and other actions. I get the feeling that the BFF is largely people who are not spending their disposable income on thermal detection devices, so I would predict that its members will convert somewhat more easily in response to evidence, of the type being compiled by kit.

And of course those who are making money from the Bigfoot phenomenon, writing books for children, doing conferences, who will keep pushing it forever. If you look at the BigfootBooksBlog, (http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/) (currently at hilarious war with the BFF) that whole community of Willow Creek is one big Bigfoot marketing campaign.
And let's not forget that the diehards have children, whom they teach.

[parnassus]

For what it's worth, I tend to think there is something to the information that Kitakaze is revealing. I'm learning new information from him that I had not been afforded before. It may not make a difference to everyone, but it makes a difference to me.

I don't see how any animal could have that baggy diaper butt look naturally. That's just me though.

no offense, but why are women so fixated on the size of the butt, male and female? ;)

[WGBH]

Who do you think gets called Crow around here?

No idea.

[WGBH]

Yet your response to the poll sounds different. Why don't you tell the BFF how you really feel?

Because that would her to be honest.

[kitakaze]

Sage advice after all the shooting and the explosions... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LniYN3sXmGg)

[Apology]

If you look at the BigfootBooksBlog, (http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/) (currently at hilarious war with the BFF) that whole community of Willow Creek is one big Bigfoot marketing campaign.


Of course it is. Willow Creek has absolutely no industry save for logging and marijuana farming; one resource is played out and the other is illegal. You really can't blame the residents of Willow Creek for using Bigfoot to draw tourism :blush:

Willow Creek is a fantastic, beautiful place; clean air, tall trees, and a spectacular river with many fine swimming holes and sandbars. It's well worth visiting without any Bigfoot, but if you're not the outdoorsy type, there's not much to do in the way of entertainment or cultural events. With its proximity to Humboldt State University and its seasonal population of bored college students, I'm surprised that there hasn't been a better hoax film made since the PGF. Honestly, if I hadn't moved, I'd probably be out there pouring plaster casts and trying to convince y'all that a nutria pelt was really a Bigfoot hide :D

[Teresa.Hall]

Yet your response to the poll sounds different. Why don't you tell the BFF how you really feel?

I think perhaps there might be some confusion about my post. My take on the poll is I'm open to the possibility an uncatalogued animal could exist. The possibility exists.

My take on the Patterson Gimlin film is I don't see how any real animal could have a butt like that.

Rather than take the pro bigfoot stance, I'd rather take the more objective tone open to any evidence either way. If I had to come down from the fence. I'd come down on the skeptical side. I've seen nothing myself to indicate the existence and I'm not out actively searching for bigfoot. I have nothing to hide in my views where Patty and/or bigfoot is concerned. I don't mind at all shouting to the rooftops my lack of belief on the BFF or elsewhere.

I'm not on the BFF because I believe or don't believe. Bigfoot matters little to me. I'm there because that's where my friends are. I'm committed to providing a place where believers and skeptics can come together and have civil discourse. That civil part is hard to come by sometimes.

The BFF is not in a war with anyone.

[LTC8K6]

The BFF is not in a war with anyone.

You don't have much in the way of ammo... :D

[GT/CS]

[snip]
I'm not on the BFF because I believe or don't believe. Bigfoot matters little to me. I'm there because that's where my friends are.
[snip]

IMO this is the perfect description of 90% of bigfooters.
If we add, "and that's where the cash is", we'd pick up another 9%.

[mikeyx]

I'm not on the BFF because I believe or don't believe. Bigfoot matters little to me. I'm there because that's where my friends are. I'm committed to providing a place where believers and skeptics can come together and have civil discourse. That civil part is hard to come by sometimes.

The BFF is not in a war with anyone.

right.............

[Gaspode]

Remember to address the argument, not the arguer.

[William Parcher]

I think perhaps there might be some confusion about my post. My take on the poll is I'm open to the possibility an uncatalogued animal could exist. The possibility exists.

My take on the Patterson Gimlin film is I don't see how any real animal could have a butt like that.

Rather than take the pro bigfoot stance, I'd rather take the more objective tone open to any evidence either way. If I had to come down from the fence. I'd come down on the skeptical side. I've seen nothing myself to indicate the existence and I'm not out actively searching for bigfoot. I have nothing to hide in my views where Patty and/or bigfoot is concerned. I don't mind at all shouting to the rooftops my lack of belief on the BFF or elsewhere.

The BFF poll is about the PGF, not Bigfoot in general (though a non-existent BF makes for a hoax by default). Your response on BFF was that you are unsure about the PGF. Your response here was that new info is "making a difference" and that you can't have a living creature with that butt.

It's really a different status for your opinion based on the forum audience. We've seen this before. Bigfooters give different "belief positions" on pro-Bigfooter forums as compared to here.

Let's see you come right out and tell the BFF that KKZ is winning you and that the butt is a no-way. You would be the first BFF Chief Administrator who had any meaningful skepticism of the PGF. Bipto and Paul are PGF believers.

[GT/CS]

Yet your response to the poll sounds different. Why don't you tell the BFF how you really feel?

Teresa did this today at the Bill Friendly Forum.

[kitakaze]

Teresa is the first boss of the BFF to be an open skeptic of the PGF...

I'm going to elaborate on my opinion just a bit. There are areas of the PGF anatomical features of the subject that don't look real to me. The diaper butt has never looked like something you'd find on a real animal. Combine that with the arguments that Kitakaze is presenting about the personalities of the parties involved which are interesting to me, I don't think the Patterson Gimlin subject represents a real animal.

That being said I'd have to change my vote to which selection denotes my views.

I'm still on the fence about bigfoot though. I hold out for the possibility that it is possible for an uncatalogued animal might exist. :)

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=29997&pid=611236&st=66&#entry611236

T has been skeptical about the PGF for a long time. She made her views known here years ago. The BFF is a very different place now that not only tolerates, but welcomes civil discourse with strong skeptics.

[Teresa.Hall]

Parnassus... read any Cosmopolitan magazine for the answers you seek. ;)

[kitakaze]

Let's see you come right out and tell the BFF that KKZ is winning you and that the butt is a no-way. You would be the first BFF Chief Administrator who had any meaningful skepticism of the PGF. Bipto and Paul are PGF believers.

WP, one of your posts was in the shovel that went to AAH. With it gone, we don't see your recognition of Teresa saying exactly what she thinks about the PGF. I am posting it here so that it doesn't look as though you didn't acknowledge what she did...

That's a decent restatement/clarification. I'd say it takes you from a #3 to a #2.

I have a very strong opinion about Teresa Hall. I think she is the best thing ever to happen to the BFF. She is someone I am proud to call a friend. She has put her reputation and standing in the Bigfoot community on the line by being supportive and welcoming of me and my efforts with the PGF. That takes integrity and courage. Where others have done their best to make me go away, Teresa has opened the door and made me feel at home. And yet, she has shown me no preferential treatment. She makes sure that I am subject to the same rules and guidelines as everyone else. She has maintained the utmost fairness.

This thread is not about Teresa. It is about Paul Vella resigning from the Alliance of Independent Bigfoot Researchers. It's old news. Paul Vella is posting at the BFF again and so he should. The Gimlin Guard is not in control. Their threats no longer have meaning at the BFF. If people who belong to other Bigfoot groups or cliques want to rumble in the Bronx with T here because they can't do it where they come from, I would suggest taking it to somewhere appropriate. It's not here and not in the GS&P. It only serves to sully us all when we get into petty squabbles here. No, really, it looks ridiculous. It's a Mexican soap opera, not discussion of skepticism, critical thinking, and the paranormal in a friendly and lively way.

[WGBH]

Others also have strong opinions about Teresa Hall. We are just not permitted to express them or to present the evidence to back up our claims. Even some of the other Skeptics who post here regularly and feel no need to kiss her ring to further some documentary project. Teresa has no reputation and standing in the Bigfoot community. She runs a forum. She does not do field research and never has, she is no longer a member of the many groups that she once was. I am glad you think she has opened the door for you at the BFF and that she is treating you fairly. I hope it continues.

[RayG]

Field research doesn't make any difference anyway.

If you want to follow the bigfoot trail you best grow a thick hide. If you can convince me that T is the new equivalent of EB, then I'll lend you an ear. Otherwise, you're just being petty.

RayG

[Penamunde]

Others also have strong opinions about Teresa Hall. We are just not permitted to express them or to present the evidence to back up our claims. Even some of the other Skeptics who post here regularly and feel no need to kiss her ring to further some documentary project. Teresa has no reputation and standing in the Bigfoot community. She runs a forum. She does not do field research and never has, she is no longer a member of the many groups that she once was. I am glad you think she has opened the door for you at the BFF and that she is treating you fairly. I hope it continues.

Kit has drank the Kool Aid, just sit back and wait for him to burp.

It will happen....

[WGBH]

Field research doesn't make any difference anyway.

If you want to follow the bigfoot trail you best grow a thick hide. If you can convince me that T is the new equivalent of EB, then I'll lend you an ear. Otherwise, you're just being petty.

RayG

And posting on the Bigfoot forums or any forum does make a difference Ray? Bigfoot if it does exist is not on the internet. So yes, field work is important if you believe and want to work for answers to this mystery. Forgive us who actually try.

EB was a angry maniac who personally attacked people and even went as far as to try to disrupt people's personal and professional lives. Someone has to go to that extreme for you to question them? Did you not question Melissa regarding your treatment on the SFB here? Hi Mr Pot, I am Mr. Kettle nice to meet you.

[WGBH]

Kit has drank the Kool Aid.



No way in H E double L.

[mikeyx]

Field research doesn't make any difference anyway.

If you want to follow the bigfoot trail you best grow a thick hide. If you can convince me that T is the new equivalent of EB, then I'll lend you an ear. Otherwise, you're just being petty.

RayG

Actually all he's doing is making the time honored debate come back around of armchair verses field research. both have their places in the minds and methods of footers. That said it is not petty to point that certain individuals get credit they don't deserve. If the BFF is the center place of bigfoot discussion and the lead administration merely sits behind a computer (Vella may well be a good example) it is noteworthy.

[RayG]

And posting on the Bigfoot forums or any forum does make a difference Ray? Bigfoot if it does exist is not on the internet. So yes, field work is important if you believe and want to work for answers to this mystery. Forgive us who actually try.

No, history has shown that no amount of field work or internet surfing has produced a bigfoot. So, I'm saying that your field work is just as effective (or ineffective) as my sitting on my duff in front of my computer.

EB was a angry maniac who personally attacked people and even went as far as to try to disrupt people's personal and professional lives. Someone has to go to that extreme for you to question them?I know all about EB's behavior, I was one of the few that he dedicated an entire webpage to, and he often referred to me as one of the Three Stooges of bigfootdom. If you know anything about me, it's that I will question anyone and everyone. It doesn't matter if it's a proponent or a skeptic, they'd better be producing and adhering to facts.

Did you not question Melissa regarding your treatment on the SFB here? Hi Mr Pot, I am Mr. Kettle nice to meet you.To be honest I don't remember even participating on the SFB. Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else? A search of 'Melissa' using my username turns up exactly one post, and that was a facepalm in response to someone saying she was trying to recreate casting effects. Do you have some facts I can refresh my memory with? (a PM will do, no need to derail the thread with further pettiness).

RayG

[GT/CS]

I must have missed it.
Who is EB?

[WGBH]

GT/CS : Eric Beckjord (sp?)

Not really Ray, I'm done.

[The Shrike]

For what it's worth, I was asked to serve as a moderator at the BFF several years ago. At that time, the leadership must not have had any problem with the idea of an openly skeptical moderator.

[GT/CS]

It looks like the fun is over.


Chief Administrator


bipto

Group: BFF Administrators
Posts: 11,865
Joined: 7-February 02
From: Minneapolis, MN
Member No.: 3

Effective immediately, I am rejoining the administration and moderation team here at the Bigfoot Forums as Chief Administrator.

I would like to extend to Teresa my gratitude for stepping in after Paul left. Running a large board like this one is a time consuming, demanding, and often thankless job. But not today. Thank you, Teresa.

Unfortunately, I will be travelling until Monday and am unable to participate fully until then. In the mean time, please continue to engage the other mods and admins as necessary.

[WGBH]

It looks like the fun is over.

I heard rumor about this a few days ago and it is a great thing it came to pass.

[WGBH]

For what it's worth, I was asked to serve as a moderator at the BFF several years ago. At that time, the leadership must not have had any problem with the idea of an openly skeptical moderator.

I think you would do a great job. You are fair. Who cares if you are skeptical?

[Penamunde]

Maybe they will finally get the Vella Stench out of the place!!!!!

[WGBH]

Paul is still around the BFF. I hope Teresa will be also. I am against anyone being run off or banned even when I do not agree with their opinions or methods.

[mikeyx]

Maybe they will finally get the Vella Stench out of the place!!!!!

the best days of the bff were under bipto this is an absolutely right step to undo the infestation

[Penamunde]

the best days of the bff were under bipto this is an absolutely right step to undo the infestation

They must be treated like cancer

Nuked
Chemically stewed
or CUT OUT

It is the only chance that the post BFF has to continue forward....none of the old regime can remain, if the BFF is to survive!

I do wish bipto all the luck in the world BUT I highly doubt he will be able to bring it forward.

[WGBH]

Well, it would be up to the Mods (Hall guards) and membership there to help Brian by behaving like adults and being civil to one another. If some of them need to go for that to happen, then so be it. But I think that most of them know how to behave. They just had no need to when they knew they could do what they wanted with no repercussions. I am sure that Brian remembers very well who jumped on him during the MRP war and they are usually the cause for everything bad that happens over there. I am sure that the posting will pick back up on the Bigfoot Discussion Forum again.

I am curious to know Black Dog's feelings regarding the change.

[Penamunde]

Well, it would be up to the Mods (Hall guards) and membership there to help Brian by behaving like adults and being civil to one another. If some of them need to go for that to happen, then so be it. But I think that most of them know how to behave. They just had no need to when they knew they could do what they wanted with no repercussions. I am sure that Brian remembers very well who jumped on him during the MRP war and they are usually the cause for everything bad that happens over there. I am sure that the posting will pick back up on the Bigfoot Discussion Forum again.

I am curious to know Black Dog's feelings regarding the change.

I agree with you for the most part....

However the doggie is most likely one his way to the Vet

For the ole snippity clip....And that's from a pretty reliable source.

[GT/CS]

Excellent post by Woftrax.


I always find it odd when somebody announces they are taking someone else's position and then thanks them. Teresa hasn't said anything about this publicly so it is apparent she isn't doing this voluntarily, and if you were really thanking somebody for the job they did you wouldn't be taking their position away. So really, you are not thanking her, you're just trying to make up for feeling just a little bit bad for taking her position away.

So I'm going to cut right through the crap as life is too short and precious to waste on this kind of internet soap opera ********.

Teresa, for once in the entire time I've been reading these forums there has been an atmosphere of equal treatment for all people whether they are "Believers" or "Skeptics". This hasn't been just one person trying to make a difference against a group who overrules there choices. You have assembled a staff that has been united in this and reflect how you feel people should be treated, and that is fairly. I've seen attempts at this in the past sporadically and watched it die down again, but what you have done has had the most enduring effect I've ever seen.

For this, and more, I thank you. I expect that with your removal from Chief Admin, this will most likely change. I already skim most posts these days because the petty complaints people have against each other for the silliest things is incredibly boring, but you and your efforts restrained that for the most part. With you not in charge, I can quickly see that becoming the norm again and there will be no point of me even reading any of the threads. They will return to being bitch fests.

I think you've done a great job and the current way things have been running is the best I have seen. The current boycott of the BFF is a joke as all of the people boycotting the BFF are people nobody wants here anyways.

So that's what this thread is for, a REAL thank you thread. Keep your chin up, girl, those of us who really care know you did a great job.


Who is boycotting the BFF?

Did Teresa get booted because she said she didn't believe Patty was real?

[WGBH]

Excellent post by Woftrax.
Who is boycotting the BFF?

Did Teresa get booted because she said she didn't believe Patty was real?

Someone call the waaaambulance for Wolfie please.

Half of Bigfootry do not go to the Bigfoot forums even if it is the biggest and best forum on the topic. As for the boycott, it was more the case of many people speaking out about their personal problems with what goes on there at the BFF. Brian has said he was aware of the boycott, but you would need to ask him for the specific details of why he stepped back in.

No Teresa was not booted for her views on the PGF. She was not booted at all. She is still a admin at the forum. The owner of the forum Brian Brown has returned to run it as he sees fit. Wolfie is upset because the owner's views and his (and Teresa's) forum agendas are probably not cohesive.

I guess we get to wait and see how it plays out. BTW I heard that thread was closed.

[Penamunde]

Someone call the waaaambulance for Wolfie please.

Half of Bigfootry do not go to the Bigfoot forums even if it is the biggest and best forum on the topic. As for the boycott, it was more the case of many people speaking out about their personal problems with what goes on there at the BFF. Brian has said he was aware of the boycott, but you would need to ask him for the specific details of why he stepped back in.

No Teresa was not booted for her views on the PGF. She was not booted at all. She is still a admin at the forum. The owner of the forum Brian Brown has returned to run it as he sees fit. Wolfie is upset because the owner's views and his (and Teresa's) forum agendas are probably not cohesive.

I guess we get to wait and see how it plays out. BTW I heard that thread was closed.

LOL.....Wolfie might have punched his own ticket out of there with that one...good going hike your leg on your new boss....

Dude just give it up....

[mikeyx]

Someone call the waaaambulance for Wolfie please.

Half of Bigfootry do not go to the Bigfoot forums even if it is the biggest and best forum on the topic. As for the boycott, it was more the case of many people speaking out about their personal problems with what goes on there at the BFF. Brian has said he was aware of the boycott, but you would need to ask him for the specific details of why he stepped back in.

No Teresa was not booted for her views on the PGF. She was not booted at all. She is still a admin at the forum. The owner of the forum Brian Brown has returned to run it as he sees fit. Wolfie is upset because the owner's views and his (and Teresa's) forum agendas are probably not cohesive.

I guess we get to wait and see how it plays out. BTW I heard that thread was closed.

waaaambulance is dead on, karma has swung back around and "people" like wolftrax will have to suck it up and understand they are not in charge

[kitakaze]

Excellent post by Woftrax.

Who is boycotting the BFF?

Did Teresa get booted because she said she didn't believe Patty was real?

That was awesome. Very well said, Wolf. Teresa Hall was the best thing that ever happened to the BFF. Why? Because she let me run amok? No. Because she made a Bigfoot forum be a place where all sorts of discussion on the subject was allowed regardless of your personal beliefs. As long as I didn't violate the rules, I was welcome to post whatever I wanted about my work with my documentary project and the PGF. I am currently on a one week moderator preview at the BFF. That means I can't post without a mod approving my posts first. Why is that? Because I violated the rules. I didn't know I did, but I did anyway and I accepted the consequences. Did anyone read the post where I excoriated Matt Moneymaker for blatantly lying about Bob Heironimus? That was a repost from the BFF where I first posted it. It was taken down because the BFF has guidelines against calling people liars. I didn't realize this applied to non-members like Moneymaker.

This is the powerful fairness that I am talking about. Money has used his website to throw mud at the BFF and insult its administration. And yet the BFF is not allowing me to fire at Money from within their borders. As much as some people would cheer me on for pegging Money's lies, they will not sacrifice their guidelines to see it happen. That is fair. That is why I think the BFF under Teresa Hall became something else, something important.

Brian Brown is back in town. Teresa is no longer the boss. I obviously wish T was still in charge. I have told the admins at the BFF that I will likely not post while being on mod preview, simply because I find it inconvenient and I have important things to focus on in the next several days. Bipto (Brian) is supposed to be back after the weekend (tomorrow). I don't know what the change will mean. From what I've known of Brian Brown, I have thought he was a good guy. I actually like his podcasts. He reminded me a bit of Scott Herriott. What I don't know is what Brian thinks of me. I think I will probably find out tomorrow.

The following is pure speculation...

Whatever my personal impression of Bipto is, he is also a devout PGF believer. I think I know exactly why Teresa is no longer the boss of the BFF. There are two reasons he is back by my estimation - Teresa Hall and kitakaze. T because she recently went on the record as being a skeptic of the PGF. T because she is friends and supportive to me. Me because I am the PGF Antichrist. Me because I am all over the BFF posting everything about bring the PGF down. People out there are flipping their wigs. What the hell is going on? Who is this guy? Why isn't he sailing through the clouds from the force of the punt he got from the BFF admin? What the hell is that Teresa woman thinking? Somebody get her out of there. Where is Brian. We need Brian. Won't somebody please think of the children?

My attunement to the Force is strong. I am picking up vibrations and movements in the Force. I feel the Gimlin Guard. I feel the machinations of the PGF Mafia at work. I see a group of them coming together and talking about how best to stem the KK threat. Does this sound like self-aggrandizement? Maybe it does, but I think it is the truth. From what I remember and understand about Brian, I don't think this return is permanent or long term. I don't think he wants to be the BFF chief administrator. I don't think he wants to run the place. I think he was done with that long ago and now will step in temporarily util someone appropriate can be found to step in. I think this person might even be one of the Gimlin Guard themselves. I fear all the radical progress the BFF made under T will go right down the tubes. I fear the BFF will turn into a Gimlin Guard enclave - an PGF Mafia stronghold. Dare to say something against Patterson and Gimlin and pow! You're sailing through the clouds. I don't know if this will come to be, but I do think it could, and I hope it doesn't.

I think a BFF where people can talk about Bigfoot speaking Chinese in one place while Bill Munns talks about artful camera shaking and I post details of interviews with people conected to the PGF in another is a good thing. I wonder now if my BFF days are numbered. We shall see what we shall see.

[kitakaze]

the best days of the bff were under bipto this is an absolutely right step to undo the infestation

Infestation of what? Any talk of the BFF brings you and John running. You have beefs with the BFF. That's fine. I personally only care what you guys say and do when you start losing self-control and go into AAHville mode. It really stinks. You make things difficult in the GS&P. You guys give us bad behaviour and AAH dumps out the wahoo, and we end up having forum wide warnings on petty bickering in Bigfoot threads. Please, please, please take it somewhere else. You know that's what I did. I had a beef with Melissa, her Bigfooter team, and her Bigfooter forum so I followed the advice of a moderator and took it to Community. Why not do that? Start a thread in Community about the BFF. Or start a thread about the Bigfoot community in Community. Whatever you like, as long as you guys don't Mexican soap opera up the GS&P.

And finally, I have one question for you, Mike. You expend a lot of energy venting about the BFF and being critical of Teresa Hall. It makes me wonder - have you not wanted to rejoin the BFF? How would it make all your venting look if that was the case? Wouldn't it be rather ironic, to say the least?

[Penamunde]

Kit your still suffering the affects of the KoolAid, take bleach bath, some asprin you'll be better In a month or so.....JC why don't you send some of those wonderfull PM's from Missy T it might help with Kit's Recovery.

[The Shrike]

. . . Teresa Hall was the best thing that ever happened to the BFF. . . . Because she made a Bigfoot forum be a place where all sorts of discussion on the subject was allowed regardless of your personal beliefs.

While I have a great deal of respect for Teresa, I've never had a problem with any administrator muzzling my skeptical comments. Skeptics have been welcomed participants since I started lurking there many moons ago. Bat-spit crazy people have also been tolerated right along, so long as they follow the posting guidelines.

I assume that if a thread is getting bloated with woo-woo nonsense (say, bigfoot eating crushed rocks to gain the power of invisibility), it's not a mod's job to bring the hammer down on such nuts, it's the job of other folks participating in that discussion. If no one expresses a skeptical opinion to counter, so be it. It's not the mods' job to ensure a certain percentage of skeptics participates in each thread. It's an open forum, and its content will vary over time based on who is actively posting. Am I missing something?

[kitakaze]

Kit your still suffering the affects of the KoolAid, take bleach bath, some asprin you'll be better In a month or so.....JC why don't you send some of those wonderfull PM's from Missy T it might help with Kit's Recovery.

Please explain to me exactly what is this Kool-Aid I have been drinking?

[WGBH]

Joshua,

First of all, seeing as this is the only forum I have been posting on most of the time lately, heck yeah I come running to ALL of the Bigfoot threads. Even the boring ones with the juvenile PGF banter between you and Sweaty Yeti complete with red crayon circles. :D

As of yesterday I have no beef with the BFF. My beef was with the 2 former chief admin that has led the BFF to it's current state. I have even been cordial to Paul lately and he has reciprocated. Thank you Paul. I tried to do the same with Teresa a few times in the past and she was not interested. I just like the rest will wait it out and see what Brian does. I hope he does well.

What makes you think Brian will not let you continue what you are doing? Seeing as Scott Herriott is one of his best friends and a PGF skeptic, I would think that as long as you keep operating as respectful as you have been claiming, that there would be no issue with you.

Skepticism on the BFF had NOTHING to do with the Boycott. It had to do with people doing things like accusing Autumn William's mom of drug addiction and the post not being removed. It had to with comment's like this going unchecked,

"Accepting some ### who claims to be an expert in a field he doesn't even understand and evidently you don't either."

It had to do with the chronic mistreatment of researchers, witnesses and newbies. And this has been happening for 2 years, not just under Teresa's watch.

[Senex]

Here is Paul's final post. Bipto also resigned.

[B][I]First, let me say that I really hate to do this. You all know that Tom Yamarone and I have fallen out over this. Tom left the forum yesterday with the threat that if I didn't keep the thread open, he would effectively punish the people attending by imposing new restrictions on taking photos and reporting from the event, presumably by demanding copyright ownership on all photos.


Who does Tom think he is keeping me from seeing the photos of my choosing. (These are scantily clad bigfoot ladies I'm lobbying for, correct?)

[GT/CS]

<snip>
It was taken down because the BFF has guidelines against calling people liars.
<snip>


Don't the members there call Bob H. a liar on a regular basis????:confused:

[Blackdog]

"Accepting some ### who claims to be an expert in a field he doesn't even understand and evidently you don't either."I posted that in response to someone calling my opinion (along with several others including Scott Herriot) "mindless skepticism".
This was in a thread about a bigfooter get together where a speaker, who claims to be a cryptolinguist, was trying to convince people that he had decoded bigfoot phonetics based off of a paranormal bigfoot encounter where alleged recordings were made.
He is a dumbass (that was the word I used) and so is anyone who believes his drivel.
My post was within the guidelines as Brian Brown set them up. What exactly was wrong with my post?
BTW how did you dig up a post from July 1st if your IP is blocked there, are you working tonight?

And the "boycott" was started by this guy (http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/bff-bigfoot-fascist-forums-blowback.html) (nice avatar BTW) whose cheese slipped off his cracker when he got banned after insulting the BFF and some members there on a blog that he was allowed to promote on the BFF.
Of course it was spinned into something else by Melissa but that's what happened. Talk about drinking the KoolAid....

[RayG]

Oh, but he WAS a crypto-linguist. Never mind that he's no more qualified to identify sasquatch language than the guy who dresses like Mickey Mouse at Disneyland.

RayG

[kitakaze]

While I have a great deal of respect for Teresa, I've never had a problem with any administrator muzzling my skeptical comments. Skeptics have been welcomed participants since I started lurking there many moons ago. Bat-spit crazy people have also been tolerated right along, so long as they follow the posting guidelines.

I assume that if a thread is getting bloated with woo-woo nonsense (say, bigfoot eating crushed rocks to gain the power of invisibility), it's not a mod's job to bring the hammer down on such nuts, it's the job of other folks participating in that discussion. If no one expresses a skeptical opinion to counter, so be it. It's not the mods' job to ensure a certain percentage of skeptics participates in each thread. It's an open forum, and its content will vary over time based on who is actively posting. Am I missing something?

What makes you think Brian will not let you continue what you are doing? Seeing as Scott Herriott is one of his best friends and a PGF skeptic, I would think that as long as you keep operating as respectful as you have been claiming, that there would be no issue with you.

You both raise points that I want to address. First of all, I am not assuming Brian Brown is going to toss me from the BFF. He and Scott are friends and I take that to be a good thing. I don't know Brian personally and I can't say what his stance is going to be. It's premature for definitive statements, but all I can do now is look at the evidence and figure it out on my own. Teresa is no longer the boss of the BFF. It wasn't T being swamped with work or personal issues or something. It was Thank you for your services. She is still an admin, but not the boss. I think Bigfootery machinations are at work here. I think T being relieved of duty was primarily if not solely because of me. And if that is the case, T, I'm sorry. If that is the case, impartiality is what cost T her position as boss.

:id:

Yep. There goes another one. That would be somewhat bizarre to me if impartiality was to blame. I am thinking it would be complaints that T didn't properly handle me. The ironic thing is that T stepped back after welcoming me and told her staff not to let our friendship have any effect on dealing with me. I was to be treated like any other member and I have been. The Shrike/Saskeptic is right. Skepticism being allowed at the BFF didn't start and end with T being in charge. Sas has been the BFF's number one skeptic for years now. I mean this with no offence whatsoever to Sas, who I think has been an excellent source of knowledge and critical thinking at the BFF, but we can't really be compared. We're doing very different things and on very different levels now. We have much of the same positions and thoughts on all things Bigfoot, but he's an apple and I'm a papaya or something. It's one thing to talk about DNA this, type specimen that, and to politely prod and poke at various Bigfoot proponent arguments. It's something all together different to go in and cause clear and present danger to the very beating heart of Bigfootery. I am employing an activism that certain people strongly feel needs to be countered. I think people like Brian and Scott, believer and skeptic of the PGF that collaborate, would welcome the truth behind the PGF, hoax or not. I am the same. I know the film is a hoax, but I would be thrilled and flabbergasted if that tummy rock, diaper butt Ladyfoot turned out to be real.

But there is something else at play here. The Gimlin Guard is behind it. I can feel it. My Force powers are strong. For Brian and Scott, they have opposing views and would welcome the truth, but there are those at the center of Bigfootery for whom that film is a sacred icon, and any threat to it is not to be tolerated. Check this out. Brian and Scott some time back, years ago, I think, were at a Bigfoot gathering with Bob Gimlin in attendance. Scott, awesome Scott, pipes up and straight out asks Bob Gimlin if he would take a polygraph. Bob says sure he would and that's that. Fastforward and to me and my documentary project. I hear about this meeting and Scott's question about the PGF and boom, I'm offering publicy to plop down the money to pay for Gimlin to take this polygraph. There are not just whispers going around. There are tremors, rumbles, steam starting to rise. Something's gonna blow. It's no longer kitakaze on the JREF talking smack about Bigfoot. It's kitakaze on the internet's biggest Bigfoot forum, the BFF, and he's going for the PGF jugular. There will be blood. But whose will it be? Pardon the WWF antics, but it seems appropriate.

See, I am taking what Greg Long did to a whole other level. I am directly engaging the Bigfoot community in a friendly and lively way and tackling the PGF controversy personally. I'm not the spaz that Greg Long was. But that doesn't matter. Not in Bigfootery. It doesn't change anything how personable or respectful I am, I am still essentially calling Bob Gimlin a liar in word and deed. I am threatening Gimlin's place of reverence in the community, and that gets some people hopping mad. There are private outcries. Hands are wrung. Head banging wall emoticons are used liberally. And the Gimlin Guard goes into motion. Brian Brown is not one of the Gimlin Guard himself, but he is deeply connected to them. They have his ear. Once again, this is all just speculation, but I think some Gimlin Guard influenced this change. I really, really think this. It makes perfect sense. I really hope that isn't the case. I really hope that the desire for truth could overcome the machinations of a subculture of believers, but I have a grim suspicion my hope is in vain. I hope that in a few days I can post about how completely wrong I was and that the change in leadership had nothing to do with me or my project. I will gladly eat that humble pie.

I will be very interested to see how this plays out, but for the time being, I can only press forward with my work and research regarding the PGF. I have many people to interview, places to go, things that need to get done, and if it turns out that the BFF and I are not going to be compatible, I'll work with what I've got. The thing that I most valued about being able to post at the BFF was being able to engage the Bigfoot community in the drive to get important things done and affect some change. The JREF is my home, but there are many who would never post here that I can talk to there. All I can do now is wait and see how things turn out. Hopefully, the postive changes made by Teresa are not undone.

[WGBH]

I posted that in response to someone calling my opinion (along with several others including Scott Herriot) "mindless skepticism".
This was in a thread about a bigfooter get together where a speaker, who claims to be a cryptolinguist, was trying to convince people that he had decoded bigfoot phonetics based off of a paranormal bigfoot encounter where alleged recordings were made.
He is a dumbass (that was the word I used) and so is anyone who believes his drivel.
My post was within the guidelines as Brian Brown set them up. What exactly was wrong with my post?
BTW how did you dig up a post from July 1st if your IP is blocked there, are you working tonight?

And the "boycott" was started by this guy (http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/bff-bigfoot-fascist-forums-blowback.html) (nice avatar BTW) whose cheese slipped off his cracker when he got banned after insulting the BFF and some members there on a blog that he was allowed to promote on the BFF.
Of course it was spinned into something else by Melissa but that's what happened. Talk about drinking the KoolAid....

Deep Breath BD. I know it may feel like it, but your world is not crashing down. Sometimes change can be good, give it a chance. I am here for you if you need to talk.

I suspected it was you who made that post, but was not sure. Just the fact that you need to ask what was wrong with that post, is all the proof needed. Sometimes it is not what you say BD, it is how you say it. I don't buy Scott Nelson's Bigfoot language claims either, but I feel no need to personally insult and swear at him on a forum.

I dug that post off of the blog you mentioned above. BTW if I did want to access the BFF from home, I could on my cellphone, but I hardly ever feel a need to look. You seem very distressed by my IP address being blocked. Don't worry my friend, I am fine.

.

[kitakaze]

Don't the members there call Bob H. a liar on a regular basis????:confused:

And Todd Standing, and Tom Biscardi, and Matt Whitton, and Rick Dyer, and Janice Carter, etc, etc, etc. But of late there has been a strong emphasis on not calling people liars. I know mods and admins have applied that fairly. GuyInIndiana, JayLee, Teresa, Bitter Monk, Masterbarber, Ace, all these guys and girls are commited to having fairness ensured. Personally, I think when someone is a proven liar, acknowledging the lying should be allowed, but it's their house, their rules, and I could see how it's an important one when trying to prevent brawls. I think it is in a similar vein as there rules about no discussing religion and politics.

[WGBH]

Joshua,

Are you serious? That is the type of conspiracy theory wackiness that they have threads about here on the JREF.

[mikeyx]

Infestation of what? Any talk of the BFF brings you and John running. You have beefs with the BFF. That's fine. I personally only care what you guys say and do when you start losing self-control and go into AAHville mode. It really stinks. You make things difficult in the GS&P. You guys give us bad behaviour and AAH dumps out the wahoo, and we end up having forum wide warnings on petty bickering in Bigfoot threads. Please, please, please take it somewhere else. You know that's what I did. I had a beef with Melissa, her Bigfooter team, and her Bigfooter forum so I followed the advice of a moderator and took it to Community. Why not do that? Start a thread in Community about the BFF. Or start a thread about the Bigfoot community in Community. Whatever you like, as long as you guys don't Mexican soap opera up the GS&P.

And finally, I have one question for you, Mike. You expend a lot of energy venting about the BFF and being critical of Teresa Hall. It makes me wonder - have you not wanted to rejoin the BFF? How would it make all your venting look if that was the case? Wouldn't it be rather ironic, to say the least?

I think you might come off a little self absorbed thinking bipto came back because of you? C'mon.....

And do I want to retu.rn? No, I don't deal with it

[mikeyx]

I posted that in response to someone calling my opinion (along with several others including Scott Herriot) "mindless skepticism".
This was in a thread about a bigfooter get together where a speaker, who claims to be a cryptolinguist, was trying to convince people that he had decoded bigfoot phonetics based off of a paranormal bigfoot encounter where alleged recordings were made.
He is a dumbass (that was the word I used) and so is anyone who believes his drivel.
My post was within the guidelines as Brian Brown set them up. What exactly was wrong with my post?
BTW how did you dig up a post from July 1st if your IP is blocked there, are you working tonight?

And the "boycott" was started by this guy (http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/bff-bigfoot-fascist-forums-blowback.html) (nice avatar BTW) whose cheese slipped off his cracker when he got banned after insulting the BFF and some members there on a blog that he was allowed to promote on the BFF.
Of course it was spinned into something else by Melissa but that's what happened. Talk about drinking the KoolAid....

Wrong, he was banned for plugging his books, and thats not from Melissa, it came from Teresa.

The kool aid is you thinking all things evil end in Hovey. Kinda of a pot and kettle thing there.

[mikeyx]

Deep Breath BD. I know it may feel like it, but your world is not crashing down. Sometimes change can be good, give it a chance. I am here for you if you need to talk.

I suspected it was you who made that post, but was not sure. Just the fact that you need to ask what was wrong with that post, is all the proof needed. Sometimes it is not what you say BD, it is how you say it. I don't buy Scott Nelson's Bigfoot language claims either, but I feel no need to personally insult and swear at him on a forum.

I dug that post off of the blog you mentioned above. BTW if I did want to access the BFF from home, I could on my cellphone, but I hardly ever feel a need to look. You seem very distressed by my IP address being blocked. Don't worry my friend, I am fine.

.

Who cares how anyone feels about it, the change was needed if the BFF is going to end it's downward spiral.

[Blackdog]

Deep Breath BD. I know it may feel like it, but your world is not crashing down. Sometimes change can be good, give it a chance. I am here for you if you need to talk.

I suspected it was you who made that post, but was not sure. Just the fact that you need to ask what was wrong with that post, is all the proof needed. Sometimes it is not what you say BD, it is how you say it. I don't buy Scott Nelson's Bigfoot language claims either, but I feel no need to personally insult and swear at him on a forum.

I dug that post off of the blog you mentioned above. BTW if I did want to access the BFF from home, I could on my cellphone, but I hardly ever feel a need to look. You seem very distressed by my IP address being blocked. Don't worry my friend, I am fine.


John, thanks for your offer but believe me my world is not crashing down on me because of some internet forum. It's people like you and Mikey that live for this stuff and make it more important than it is. Maybe it's because you don't have anything else.

I owned up to that post because I wanted to put it in context.

[kitakaze]

Deep Breath BD. I know it may feel like it, but your world is not crashing down. Sometimes change can be good, give it a chance. I am here for you if you need to talk.

I can't tell you enough how often I feel like telling this to Patty fans.

I suspected it was you who made that post, but was not sure. Just the fact that you need to ask what was wrong with that post, is all the proof needed. Sometimes it is not what you say BD, it is how you say it. I don't buy Scott Nelson's Bigfoot language claims either, but I feel no need to personally insult and swear at him on a forum.

It's the ticks that make BD that way. It takes all his subtlety away. It's a fine line, isn't it? I certainly understand BD's sentiment. "Dumbass" may not be the word I first think of when I hear people talking about Bigfoot speaking Japanese or Chinese. I generally will be reaching for words that could denote the confoundedness I feel at the breathtaking silliness. In the end it seems a picture is worth a thousand words and I can just say, "Here. Here is what you are seriously talking about. Does this not in any way seem absurd to you?"

[kitakaze]

Joshua,

Are you serious? That is the type of conspiracy theory wackiness that they have threads about here on the JREF.

Yes, I'm serious. I suspect Teresa no longer being the chief admin of the BFF has much if not all to do with me and her friendship to me.

I think you might come off a little self absorbed thinking bipto came back because of you? C'mon.....

And do I want to retu.rn? No, I don't deal with it

I agree that on the surface it might seem self-absorbed. And yet, look at the circumstances. Look at the situation. Look at what I am doing and look at the effects of it. I am taking an active role in ending the PGF controversy and I know there are people reacting to it. I think this may have something to do with Teresa being relieved of duty.

I'm not asking if you want back to the BFF now. I am wanting to know if you did want to return before.

[WGBH]

It sounded more like Klingon to me when Nelson was speaking it at the Yakima Round up.:D

[Blackdog]

Wrong, he was banned for plugging his books, and thats not from Melissa, it came from Teresa.

The kool aid is you thinking all things evil end in Hovey. Kinda of a pot and kettle thing there.
Fail... and anyone with one iota of reason can see otherwise.

[WGBH]

Joshua,

What do you think would happen if you posted that theory on the BFF? Would you be banned? 10 lashes with a wet noodle? Would BD curse at you? Would it give Scott H a really good chance at comedy gold on your behalf?

Come on...I am throwing this right down the plate...go for the fence... :D

Stop arguing with the red circle guy right now!

[RayG]

Kit, take a deep breath man, yer gonna explode.

While I quite enjoy the spin on words you spit out (Gol darnit, Mr. Lamarr, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar who.... ummm you know what I mean), I think you've stepped deep into the woods of speculation on the T/Bipto thing. Has T made any mention of why she's no longer head-honcho over there? If not, then all you have is speculation and assumption. I've been a member over at the BFF for almost exactly 7 years, been skeptical for the vast majority of that time, and seen admins/mods come and go. I've found that if you abide by the rules you get to speak your piece, no matter who's running the show.

Oh, and I truly don't see the significance of a polygraph test for Gimlin either. They don't detect lies, aren't admissible in court, and polygraph operators require less training than a barber.

RayG

[GT/CS]

Yes, I'm serious. I suspect Teresa no longer being the chief admin of the BFF has much if not all to do with me and her friendship to me.



I agree that on the surface it might seem self-absorbed. And yet, look at the circumstances. Look at the situation. Look at what I am doing and look at the effects of it. I am taking an active role in ending the PGF controversy and I know there are people reacting to it. I think this may have something to do with Teresa being relieved of duty.

I'm not asking if you want back to the BFF now. I am wanting to know if you did want to return before.

I agree that her anti-PGF post may have at least been a contributing factor. After she made that post the thread in question went nearly silent, when it was quite active before her post. It was almost like the members let out a huge gasp and all hid in their caves, waiting for the inevitable fallout to clear before they come back out. The entire site is amazingly quiet now.

The BFF is a social network site and they seem to be huge into internal politics and all its associated back stabbing and ass kissing.

[Blackdog]

Wrong, he was banned for plugging his books, and thats not from Melissa, it came from Teresa.

The kool aid is you thinking all things evil end in Hovey. Kinda of a pot and kettle thing there.
Huh... he joined the BFF in August of 2008 and managed to promote his blog and book store for almost two years before getting banned.

I'm not wrong.

[kitakaze]

It sounded more like Klingon to me when Nelson was speaking it at the Yakima Round up.:D

This is for my own personal interest. Now, at that time was there not a single snicker? A guffaw maybe even? A chuckle of some sort? A groan? Like, was there you and some friends looking at each other and knowingly smile? I'm curious what the atmosphere was like at the time the guy stood up and tried to show people how to speak Bigfoot.

[kitakaze]

Kit, take a deep breath man, yer gonna explode.

While I quite enjoy the spin on words you spit out (Gol darnit, Mr. Lamarr, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar who.... ummm you know what I mean), I think you've stepped deep into the woods of speculation on the T/Bipto thing. Has T made any mention of why she's no longer head-honcho over there? If not, then all you have is speculation and assumption. I've been a member over at the BFF for almost exactly 7 years, been skeptical for the vast majority of that time, and seen admins/mods come and go. I've found that if you abide by the rules you get to speak your piece, no matter who's running the show.

Oh, and I truly don't see the significance of a polygraph test for Gimlin either. They don't detect lies, aren't admissible in court, and polygraph operators require less training than a barber.

RayG

First, thank you for the compliment and the creepy inuendo. :D

Please remember, I am not talking about skeptics being stifled at the BFF. I acknowledged many of the people who expressed skepticism at the BFF when I first came there. I have zero idea how Brian Brown is going to address me. He may be just fine. He seems like a laid back guy. I like his personality. I may get a message from him or someone else that after review, the decision was made that I had my warning level raised enough times to warrant being removed. I don't know. I have broken the rules there. The rebuttal to Matt Moneymaker on Bob Heironimus in which I called Money a liar - that broke the rules.

T is free to talk about Brian coming back here if she chooses. She probably won't, I would imagine. It's not her style and I highly doubt that she would take this stuff out on the JREF. The polygraph stuff is just an illustration of one of the active ways in which I am seeking to end the PGF controversy. My stated goal is to prove the hoax I know it to be. You haven't made your decision about it one way or the other but I have, and I'm acting on it. I try to get other people to act on it. I try and stir things up that certain people want left alone. Forget the polygraph - think about me trying to meet Gimlin and the reactions to it. Remember the way Kathy Strain spoke to me when I was trying to go to the Yakima Round-Up. It was weird. Kathy I always think is sweet and nice, but that was just weird. And think about the reactions to my trying to organize a paid interview with Gimlin and Heironimus. This stuff really stirs up certain hornets. All I'm saying right now is that I smell Gimlin Guard in this. I would bet on it. Whatever the reasons or stated reasons for the change will be, we will know tomorrow.

BTW, I am inclined to take seriously the two polygraphs that Bob passed. It's a big deal to me. It's so big that I would pay hundreds of dollars to have Gimlin do the same thing. I posted a video that showed how good an experienced polygraph examiner can be. If you have some real world, practical reasons and examples that will save me dropping some hefty cash, I would ask that you help me out and save me some trouble. If cowboys and polygraphs don't mix, I'm in trouble.

[WGBH]

This is for my own personal interest. Now, at that time was there not a single snicker? A guffaw maybe even? A chuckle of some sort? A groan? Like, was there you and some friends looking at each other and knowingly smile? I'm curious what the atmosphere was like at the time the guy stood up and tried to show people how to speak Bigfoot.

Yep

When Nelson started speaking Klingon, Bruce rolled his eyes at me and I lost it and did a light snicker. Billy elbowed me in the ribs to be quiet. Good thing we sat in the back. We had hilarious car conversation on the drive to Bumping lake that evening for squatchin.

[kitakaze]

That's what I wanted to hear. That sounds like it was fun. I am an adult, I would never have heckled Nelson if I was there at Yakima. I would have politely listened and then asked him questions after he taught us to speak Bigfoot. I am planning to film a Bigfoot expedition to a very cool location on Vancouver Island for my documentary.

[tsig]

First, thank you for the compliment and the creepy inuendo. :D

Please remember, I am not talking about skeptics being stifled at the BFF. I acknowledged many of the people who expressed skepticism at the BFF when I first came there. I have zero idea how Brian Brown is going to address me. He may be just fine. He seems like a laid back guy. I like his personality. I may get a message from him or someone else that after review, the decision was made that I had my warning level raised enough times to warrant being removed. I don't know. I have broken the rules there. The rebuttal to Matt Moneymaker on Bob Heironimus in which I called Money a liar - that broke the rules.

T is free to talk about Brian coming back here if she chooses. She probably won't, I would imagine. It's not her style and I highly doubt that she would take this stuff out on the JREF. The polygraph stuff is just an illustration of one of the active ways in which I am seeking to end the PGF controversy. My stated goal is to prove the hoax I know it to be. You haven't made your decision about it one way or the other but I have, and I'm acting on it. I try to get other people to act on it. I try and stir things up that certain people want left alone. Forget the polygraph - think about me trying to meet Gimlin and the reactions to it. Remember the way Kathy Strain spoke to me when I was trying to go to the Yakima Round-Up. It was weird. Kathy I always think is sweet and nice, but that was just weird. And think about the reactions to my trying to organize a paid interview with Gimlin and Heironimus. This stuff really stirs up certain hornets. All I'm saying right now is that I smell Gimlin Guard in this. I would bet on it. Whatever the reasons or stated reasons for the change will be, we will know tomorrow.

BTW, I am inclined to take seriously the two polygraphs that Bob passed. It's a big deal to me. It's so big that I would pay hundreds of dollars to have Gimlin do the same thing. I posted a video that showed how good an experienced polygraph examiner can be. If you have some real world, practical reasons and examples that will save me dropping some hefty cash, I would ask that you help me out and save me some trouble. If cowboys and polygraphs don't mix, I'm in trouble.

Here you go:

Polygraphy has little credibility among scientists.[22][23] Despite claims of 90-95% validity by polygraph advocates, and 95-100% by businesses providing polygraph services,[24] critics maintain that rather than a "test", the method amounts to an inherently unstandardizable interrogation technique whose accuracy cannot be established. A 1997 survey of 421 psychologists estimated the test's average accuracy at about 61%, a little better than chance.[25] Critics also argue that even given high estimates of the polygraph's accuracy a significant number of subjects (e.g. 10% given a 90% accuracy) will appear to be lying, and would unfairly suffer the consequences of "failing" the polygraph. In the 1998 Supreme Court case, United States v. Scheffer, the majority stated that "There is simply no consensus that polygraph evidence is reliable"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph



Kit you seem to be as obsessed with BF as any true believer. Take some time off.

[mikeyx]

You both raise points that I want to address. First of all, I am not assuming Brian Brown is going to toss me from the BFF. He and Scott are friends and I take that to be a good thing. I don't know Brian personally and I can't say what his stance is going to be. It's premature for definitive statements, but all I can do now is look at the evidence and figure it out on my own. Teresa is no longer the boss of the BFF. It wasn't T being swamped with work or personal issues or something. It was Thank you for your services. She is still an admin, but not the boss. I think Bigfootery machinations are at work here. I think T being relieved of duty was primarily if not solely because of me. And if that is the case, T, I'm sorry. If that is the case, impartiality is what cost T her position as boss.

:id:

Yep. There goes another one. That would be somewhat bizarre to me if impartiality was to blame. I am thinking it would be complaints that T didn't properly handle me. The ironic thing is that T stepped back after welcoming me and told her staff not to let our friendship have any effect on dealing with me. I was to be treated like any other member and I have been. The Shrike/Saskeptic is right. Skepticism being allowed at the BFF didn't start and end with T being in charge. Sas has been the BFF's number one skeptic for years now. I mean this with no offence whatsoever to Sas, who I think has been an excellent source of knowledge and critical thinking at the BFF, but we can't really be compared. We're doing very different things and on very different levels now. We have much of the same positions and thoughts on all things Bigfoot, but he's an apple and I'm a papaya or something. It's one thing to talk about DNA this, type specimen that, and to politely prod and poke at various Bigfoot proponent arguments. It's something all together different to go in and cause clear and present danger to the very beating heart of Bigfootery. I am employing an activism that certain people strongly feel needs to be countered. I think people like Brian and Scott, believer and skeptic of the PGF that collaborate, would welcome the truth behind the PGF, hoax or not. I am the same. I know the film is a hoax, but I would be thrilled and flabbergasted if that tummy rock, diaper butt Ladyfoot turned out to be real.

But there is something else at play here. The Gimlin Guard is behind it. I can feel it. My Force powers are strong. For Brian and Scott, they have opposing views and would welcome the truth, but there are those at the center of Bigfootery for whom that film is a sacred icon, and any threat to it is not to be tolerated. Check this out. Brian and Scott some time back, years ago, I think, were at a Bigfoot gathering with Bob Gimlin in attendance. Scott, awesome Scott, pipes up and straight out asks Bob Gimlin if he would take a polygraph. Bob says sure he would and that's that. Fastforward and to me and my documentary project. I hear about this meeting and Scott's question about the PGF and boom, I'm offering publicy to plop down the money to pay for Gimlin to take this polygraph. There are not just whispers going around. There are tremors, rumbles, steam starting to rise. Something's gonna blow. It's no longer kitakaze on the JREF talking smack about Bigfoot. It's kitakaze on the internet's biggest Bigfoot forum, the BFF, and he's going for the PGF jugular. There will be blood. But whose will it be? Pardon the WWF antics, but it seems appropriate.

See, I am taking what Greg Long did to a whole other level. I am directly engaging the Bigfoot community in a friendly and lively way and tackling the PGF controversy personally. I'm not the spaz that Greg Long was. But that doesn't matter. Not in Bigfootery. It doesn't change anything how personable or respectful I am, I am still essentially calling Bob Gimlin a liar in word and deed. I am threatening Gimlin's place of reverence in the community, and that gets some people hopping mad. There are private outcries. Hands are wrung. Head banging wall emoticons are used liberally. And the Gimlin Guard goes into motion. Brian Brown is not one of the Gimlin Guard himself, but he is deeply connected to them. They have his ear. Once again, this is all just speculation, but I think some Gimlin Guard influenced this change. I really, really think this. It makes perfect sense. I really hope that isn't the case. I really hope that the desire for truth could overcome the machinations of a subculture of believers, but I have a grim suspicion my hope is in vain. I hope that in a few days I can post about how completely wrong I was and that the change in leadership had nothing to do with me or my project. I will gladly eat that humble pie.

I will be very interested to see how this plays out, but for the time being, I can only press forward with my work and research regarding the PGF. I have many people to interview, places to go, things that need to get done, and if it turns out that the BFF and I are not going to be compatible, I'll work with what I've got. The thing that I most valued about being able to post at the BFF was being able to engage the Bigfoot community in the drive to get important things done and affect some change. The JREF is my home, but there are many who would never post here that I can talk to there. All I can do now is wait and see how things turn out. Hopefully, the postive changes made by Teresa are not undone.

Y is anything BUT impartial, her choice of newer mods there proves that.

[mikeyx]

Yes, I'm serious. I suspect Teresa no longer being the chief admin of the BFF has much if not all to do with me and her friendship to me.



I agree that on the surface it might seem self-absorbed. And yet, look at the circumstances. Look at the situation. Look at what I am doing and look at the effects of it. I am taking an active role in ending the PGF controversy and I know there are people reacting to it. I think this may have something to do with Teresa being relieved of duty.

I'm not asking if you want back to the BFF now. I am wanting to know if you did want to return before.

The door was shut behind me when Vella banned, that has never changed. As for your agenda with the PGF, I am stuck thinking it's giving you goggles to see through.

[mikeyx]

Fail... and anyone with one iota of reason can see otherwise.

If she would like to come forward and refute her own words let her. People talk via instant messenger at times. Its not like I care one way or another, certain blogsquawk shows are a free pass, others get banned for hawking their wares. Its all about who your friends are there. Otherwise you would have never been let back in.

[Drewbot]

I have two comments about this weekends activity in this thread:

1. The BFF has warning meters, and uses them? Wow.
2. Isn't the boycott just a bunch of people banned from the BFF? I mean, I'm boycotting the BFF not by choice, but because I was unjustly banned. (does not include my six sockpuppets)

[jhunter1163]

Yep

When Nelson started speaking Klingon, Bruce rolled his eyes at me and I lost it and did a light snicker. Billy elbowed me in the ribs to be quiet. Good thing we sat in the back. We had hilarious car conversation on the drive to Bumping lake that evening for squatchin.

Great minds think alike, no?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=6125208

[RayG]

If you have some real world, practical reasons and examples that will save me dropping some hefty cash, I would ask that you help me out and save me some trouble.

I have no objection to you interviewing Gimlin, pointing out some of the inconsistencies in his previous statements and such, but polygraph testing is right up there with tea-reading, tarot cards, and ouija boards.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_2324c4d771993ca5.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=20529)

An expose on private polygraph firms aired by 60 Minutes in 1986 underscores the subjectivity of the process and its susceptibility to confirmation bias due to the contamination of an examiner's diagnosis with information obtained outside of the formal polygraph test. As summarized by Ben-Shakhar (1991, 236)*:

Three different polygraph firms were independently called to
test an alleged theft of a camera and lens from a photography
magazine office employing four employees. In fact, nothing
was stolen from the office, but the polygraph examiners were
told that it could only have been done by one of the four
employees. Each polygraph examiner was told that "it might
have been--," with a different employee being fingered in
each case (a decidedly weak fingering). In each case, the polygraph
examiner identified the "fingered" employee as deceptive,
and cleared the other "suspects." Moreover, all polygraph
examiners expressed complete confidence in their decisions.
This demonstrates not only that polygraph examiners can go
wrong, but that their judgment and decision-making processes
are infected by a systematic and powerful source of bias, a bias
caused by contamination.

* Ben-Shakhar, Gershon. 1991. Clinical judgment and decision-making in CQT-polygraphy: A comparison with other pseudoscientific applications in psychology. Integrative Physiological and Behavioral Science 26: 232-240. (my bolding)

And as I said, a typical barber requires more training (1500 hours (http://www.ehow.com/how_6099008_become-barber-georgia.html)) than a polygrapher (404 hours (http://www.polygraph-training.com/course.htm)) does.

The polygrapher is a master of deception.

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/polygraphs_and_the_national_labs_dangerous_ruse_un dermines_national_securit/

The secret of the polygraph --the polygraphers' own shameless deception-- is that their machine is no more capable of assessing truth telling than were the priests of ancient Rome standing knee-deep in chicken parts. Nonetheless, the polygrapher tries to persuade the unwitting subject that their measurements indicate when a lie is being told. The subject, nervously strapped in a chair, is often convinced by the aura surrounding this cheap parlor trick, and is then putty in the hands of the polygrapher, who launches into an intrusive, illegal, and wide-ranging inquisition. The subject is told, from time to time, that the machine is indicating "deception" (it isn't, of course), and he is continuously urged to "clarify" his answers, by providing more and more personal information. At some point (it's completely arbitrary and up to the judgment of the polygrapher), the test is stopped and the polygrapher renders a subjective assessment of "deceptive response." Even J. Edgar Hoover knew this was senseless. He banned the polygraph test from within the ranks of the FBI as a waste of time...

...dozens of studies over the past twenty years conducted in psychology departments and medical schools all over the world have shown that the polygraph cannot distinguish between truth-telling and lying...

...The truth is this: The polygraph is a ruse, carefully constructed as a tool of intimidation, and used as an excuse to conduct an illegal inquisition under psychologically and physically unpleasant circumstances.New York Times October 2002 article (with my bolding):

Polygraph Is Poor Tool for Screening Employees, Panel Says

By WILLIAM J. BROAD

In a report to the government, a panel of leading scientists said today that polygraph testing is too flawed to use for security screening. The panel said lie detector tests do a poor job of identifying spies or other national-security risks and are likely to produce false accusations of innocent people.

The 245-page report, by experts convened by the National Research Council, an arm of the National Academy of Sciences, said the scientific basis for polygraph testing is weak and much of the research supporting its use lacks scientific rigor.

The report is not the first time experts have questioned the reliability of lie detector testing, which is known to have limitations and whose admissibility in court, for example, is sharply limited. But it is the first by the academy, and private security experts said its findings could erode support for polygraph testing inside the federal government. Defense and intelligence agencies use it tens of thousands of times each year to screen prospective and current employees for espionage.

Snipped for compliance with Rule 4. Do not cut and past lengthy tracts from another source. Instead, post a link and a short quote.Some other info:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/zelicoff.pdf
http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Secrecy_031104,00.html
http://antipolygraph.org/pubs.shtml
http://antipolygraph.org/the_lie_behind_the_lie_detector/the_lie.html

RayG

[mikeyx]

I have two comments about this weekends activity in this thread:

1. The BFF has warning meters, and uses them? Wow.
2. Isn't the boycott just a bunch of people banned from the BFF? I mean, I'm boycotting the BFF not by choice, but because I was unjustly banned. (does not include my six sockpuppets)

atta boy.....

[WGBH]

I have two comments about this weekends activity in this thread:

1. The BFF has warning meters, and uses them? Wow.
2. Isn't the boycott just a bunch of people banned from the BFF? I mean, I'm boycotting the BFF not by choice, but because I was unjustly banned. (does not include my six sockpuppets)

1. I have heard this but never paid attention to them.
2. 50% of the boycotting people are banned Yes, the other half are just tired of being represented in that way by the BFF. Like it or not, when you google Bigfoot, the BFF is one of the first things that pop up. The Boycott has been pulled back at this time until Brian has a chance to make changes. I really do not think the boycott made a difference in traffic at the forum anyway. Frankly I was as surprised as anyone by Brian's actions.

[mikeyx]

1. I have heard this but never paid attention to them.
2. 50% of the boycotting people are banned Yes, the other half are just tired of being represented in that way by the BFF. Like it or not, when you google Bigfoot, the BFF is one of the first things that pop up. The Boycott has been pulled back at this time until Brian has a chance to make changes. I really do not think the boycott made a difference in traffic at the forum anyway. Frankly I was as surprised as anyone by Brian's actions.

I'll throw this out just "because", there has in certain circles been raised the conjecture of the current status of ownership of the board itself, and where and by whom it is being hosted. Could matters pertaining to this be what motivated Brian? I don't know if he reads this forum, but if he does, I would be curious as to his response.

After reading last night's responses to his announcement, his return to active duty seems to have raised mixed feelings in some, notably those happy with the current regime.

[Drewbot]

I wonder if Brian Browns first action as the new Admin of BFF will be to lift my ban, unconditionally, and issue an apology for the way I was treated...

[mikeyx]

I wonder if Brian Browns first action as the new Admin of BFF will be to lift my ban, unconditionally, and issue an apology for the way I was treated...

If they were to lift mine, which I don't see happening even with brian's return, the resulting controversy of my return within certain circles would be entertaining, but... alas, certain individuals are still mods there so I remain skeptical as to how much will actually change unless Bipto were to clean house of the newer mods.

I'd love to see it, but I'm not holding my breath. My attitude is wait and see.

[WGBH]

I wonder if Brian Browns first action as the new Admin of BFF will be to lift my ban, unconditionally, and issue an apology for the way I was treated...

I believe you absolutely deserve to be reinstated.You did nothing but have the nerve to call the MRP out on their BS. Just like Brian did and he was also attacked.

[GT/CS]

I have two comments about this weekends activity in this thread:

1. The BFF has warning meters, and uses them? Wow.
2. Isn't the boycott just a bunch of people banned from the BFF? I mean, I'm boycotting the BFF not by choice, but because I was unjustly banned. (does not include my six sockpuppets)

Regarding #1; Yes it does. I'm currently at 25% for blasting an idiot mod in a forum instead of using the moderation review process. It'll soon be at 50%.:p

[mikeyx]

I wonder if Brian Browns first action as the new Admin of BFF will be to lift my ban, unconditionally, and issue an apology for the way I was treated...

I wholehearted agree with JC on this. Your banning is a poster-boi example of what started to go so wrong during the MRP witch hunt over there. The only thing you did wrong was not jump on the bandwagon, ie: you had a dissenting opinion with regard to the MRP loyalists, many of whom are now mods thanks to Teresa.

that's what stands to make the next few days of BFF history interesting as Brian was arguably a victim of the same mentality going on at the time. It may get stated now that is wasn't political, but there were statements clearly made at the time by Vella regarding Brian and his relations with the TBRC.

One only go back and read certain individual's commentary then regarding the apparent issues between the MRP and the TBRC, notably Alton Higgins, and the comments made yesterday on BFF bemoaning Brian retaking the reigns of the forum that he owns.

[WGBH]

Having listened to comments on their radio show regarding the MRP war, Paul and Brian seem to still get along and carry no grudges towards each other about it. I think that is a good thing and I hate to see friends bicker. Their radio shows have been a nice listen lately.

[WGBH]

That's what I wanted to hear. That sounds like it was fun.

That is what it's about for me. Not posting on any forums. Posting on Bigfoot threads is what I do to pass the time until I am able to get back out here. My health situation lately has put a damper on it and I miss it. If it were not fun, I would not participate. Joshua, If you had been in the field with some of the folks I have or seen the wild things they do. You could write a book. It has been strange, good, bad, all the emotions you could ask for. It has never stoped being interesting or fun. When that happens, I will be done.

[William Parcher]

the best days of the bff were under bipto this is an absolutely right step to undo the infestation


Way back in the days when Bigfoot had a 1% chance of existing.

[mikeyx]

Way back in the days when Bigfoot had a 1% chance of existing.

and in your mind that obviously won't change.

[William Parcher]

It's now less than a 1% chance. It gets less as each year passes... actually, with each passing day. Believers will talk a bunch of gobbledy-gook to make you think otherwise.

[GT/CS]

The BFF is actually what made me a bigfoot skeptic.

After I saw the original MQ bigfoot show I figured that there must be better evidence for bigfoot than that ridiculous PGF, and the other weak stuff on MQ.

I checked out a few bigfoot sites which were way out on the fringe, then I found the so-called best bigfoot site on the web and saw nothing new.

NOTHING.

WTH, there had to be some new evidence somewhere so I checked out this site and the sad truth was revealed to me. Hopefully others will also go there, link to here, and see the light.

[mikeyx]

The BFF is actually what made me a bigfoot skeptic.

After I saw the original MQ bigfoot show I figured that there must be better evidence for bigfoot than that ridiculous PGF, and the other weak stuff on MQ.

I checked out a few bigfoot sites which were way out on the fringe, then I found the so-called best bigfoot site on the web and saw nothing new.

NOTHING.

WTH, there had to be some new evidence somewhere so I checked out this site and the sad truth was revealed to me. Hopefully others will also go there, link to here, and see the light.

the flipside and maybe flaw in your point here is that the internet simply isn't real life. You have too many people that can come online and say or be whatever the want to. Longtabber, Bulletmaker among others....

The thing is, how really different is Longtabber or BM's yarn spinning from the MRP hoax and all the color behind that? In the end, the BFF elitists either were marginally in on or fooled by a hoax.

[William Parcher]

For Brian and Scott, they have opposing views and would welcome the truth, but there are those at the center of Bigfootery for whom that film is a sacred icon, and any threat to it is not to be tolerated.


They differ on the PGF but are united on the most important common denominator. They both agree that Bigfoot exists.

I suspect that Bipto is back for a number of reasons and you are only one of them.

[mikeyx]

They differ on the PGF but are united on the most important common denominator. They both agree that Bigfoot exists.

I suspect that Bipto is back for a number of reasons and you are only one of them.

not to be harsh kit, but I doubt it has ANYTHING to do with you. There are things there that run deeper than you.

[kitakaze]

That's not harsh. It's reasonable. Maybe my Spider Sense is on the fritz. I hope so. I've got things to do and the PGF Mafia trying to muscle in would really, really suck. I don't need that kind of distraction.

[ScannerHead]

The BFF is a social network site and they seem to be huge into internal politics and all its associated back stabbing and ass kissing.

You sir, are the ONLY one who gets it.

[mikeyx]

You sir, are the ONLY one who gets it.

his statement was dead on the money. And when certain folks make a ruckus about BFF related things that's exactly why. They seem to feel the need to defend perceived privileged here to, the problem is, they dont have any privilege, :jaw-dropp

I doubt Brian will completely clean house but it would so nice to see.

[Penamunde]

The BFF is a social network site and they seem to be huge into internal politics and all its associated back stabbing and ass kissing.

I'm not sure how I missed this one, but this is the most inteligent post on this thread.

Kudos to you.......

[RedRatSnake]

Nar there are a lot of folks that get it but it's just way too tempting not too get involved cause reality shows and there counterparts are whats fabulous with the in crowd Now'A'Daze

[William Parcher]

I doubt Brian will completely clean house but it would so nice to see.

What would be the goal in your opinion? To remove anyone who would be mean or critical to a Bigfoot eyewitness?

[mikeyx]

What would be the goal in your opinion? To remove anyone who would be mean or critical to a Bigfoot eyewitness?

to restore balance to the force, er forum, as opposed to Teresa's stacked deck.

[William Parcher]

That doesn't explain the problem. What exactly do the "bad ones" do that should be stopped? Be very specific.

[RedRatSnake]

How about starting with the know it all attitude and dropping the hard ass act thinking everyone grew up in a trailer park ~ ?

[William Parcher]

Hello RedRatSnake.

[mikeyx]

That doesn't explain the problem. What exactly do the "bad ones" do that should be stopped? Be very specific.

Its an extension of whats already being discussed, and you would need to the know the history of the board's politics going back to at least 2003. If you are an a** kisser of certain people you get crap there, to fully illustrate the situation you would have to backtrack through a bunch of their archives.

On a paranoic note, their crappy way of treating people, IMHO, slowly killed the SRI, and made the BFD board nothing more than their clubhouse. Thats what Teresa and friends seem to want the BFF to become.

And Vella did nothing to prevent it.

[RedRatSnake]

Hello RedRatSnake.

Hi

Thats was easy wasn't it ~~~~~ so whats on your mind, i have been reading this forum for years now and got a lot of catching up too do ~

Tim

[William Parcher]

Meet me in some other thread and we can argue about the existence of Bigfoot.

[RedRatSnake]

I figured you would be the one to catch on to my sudden emergence from being silent all this time cause you have always taken the lead in knowing all about me ~ Right ???? Sorry there bud but you got it wrong big time, Not all the illiterate hippies got that kinda sense but i guess i am gifted, First off i don't believe in anything i can't see, that includes god and the lockness monster . . . most of the crap that has been slung here is so wrong no matter how much i yap it would never be corrected.

[William Parcher]

LOL. I called you an illiterate hippy weirdo. It got sent to AAH.

Why the hell did you make 6300 posts on BFF in 2 years?

What is crap slung around here? The part about Bigfoot not existing or the PGF being a hoax?

[RedRatSnake]

LOL. I called you an illiterate hippy weirdo. It got sent to AAH.

Why the hell did you make 6300 posts on BFF in 2 years?



What is crap slung around here? The part about Bigfoot not existing or the PGF being a hoax?

Ya but i could still read it ~ Dur

Cause it was a very busy forum and at the time i clicked well with whats was going on and like to talk a lot .

I don't give a rat's ass if you guys pour **** over the PFG it is a frigging 40 something year old film that will produce nothing more that it has already, the problem is facts with what is going on within other forums or people that post in them, you post **** you know nothing about

[William Parcher]

Are you drunk right now?

[RedRatSnake]

It would be nice if i was but right now i am sorry it is not a convenience you can fall back on, unfortunately for you your assumptions of RRS were very much wrong and your being called out ~

[WGBH]

Hi Timmy,

Welcome to the JREF.

[GT/CS]

Ya but i could still read it ~ Dur

Cause it was a very busy forum and at the time i clicked well with whats was going on and like to talk a lot .

I don't give a rat's ass if you guys pour **** over the PFG it is a frigging 40 something year old film that will produce nothing more that it has already, the problem is facts with what is going on within other forums or people that post in them, you post **** you know nothing about

Well, it's good to have you here Tim. Hopefully you can fill us in on what's really going on.

[Blackdog]

Before this goes any farther, I'm not sure this is RRS.
I know why RSS tried to suspend me last time on the BFF (he did but it was overturned and none of it was public), so I want to hear from "TheDevilCried" in his own words what it was all about.

[HarryHenderson]

It's potentially a little curious that Paul Vella has apparently gone away from the BFF 'forum management' in toto. He's no longer listed as an admin or a mod (although I'd guess he's still a member?).

Which isn't necessarily 'so odd' except the place isn't known to be too quick to de-list former 'admin people' given they still have a guy listed as an admin who's been dead for 3 years - no offense to the dead guy. On the contrary, apparently he's so good even his own death couldn't keep him from the task of proper Bigfoot Forums™ management. Maybe they really do know something we don't? :jaw-dropp

That's a joke son.

[mikeyx]

Before this goes any farther, I'm not sure this is RRS.
I know why RSS tried to suspend me last time on the BFF (he did but it was overturned and none of it was public), so I want to hear from "TheDevilCried" in his own words what it was all about.

that only goes the illustrate the favoritism you antics get there, and if it is Timmy, you owe him an apology, but perhaps we don't know that yet, but I suspect it is.

[mikeyx]

It's potentially a little curious that Paul Vella has apparently gone away from the BFF 'forum management' in toto. He's no longer listed as an admin or a mod (although I'd guess he's still a member?).

Which isn't necessarily 'so odd' except the place isn't known to be too quick to de-list former 'admin people' given they still have a guy listed as an admin who's been dead for 3 years - no offense to the dead guy. On the contrary, apparently he's so good even his own death couldn't keep him from the task of proper Bigfoot Forums™ management. Maybe they really do know something we don't? :jaw-dropp

That's a joke son.

More interesting is Vella is now a "special member" (((FAVORITISM!))))), maybe Bipto will return the favor and demote the usurper.

[Drewbot]

Redratsnake is the bloke who banned me. Tim, do they have any clue which usernames are my half-dozen sockpuppets?

[WGBH]

[QUOTE=Blackdog;6163801]
I know why RSS tried to suspend me last time on the BFF (he did but it was overturned and none of it was public), so I want to hear.

One would suspect it was cursing at people.

[mikeyx]

Before this goes any farther, I'm not sure this is RRS.
I know why RSS tried to suspend me last time on the BFF (he did but it was overturned and none of it was public), so I want to hear from "TheDevilCried" in his own words what it was all about.

Frankly they should have never lifted the original ban, but frankly if you need an explanation on how you deal with people there and elsewhere it's likely wasted. Maybe it's time to lose the entitlement.

(And before you start feeling all maligned, YOU asked the question.)

[RedRatSnake]

Thanks for the welcome

I think to start i'll say i have been reading this forum for a few years now, i just didn't care to post much it was much more fun just reading what was going on

If you want to ask questions i'll be happy to answer them but i am giving out no privileged info and will not talk about anyone unless there here asking questions, ok ?

And if i spell a few words wrong blame Mr Spell checker it's his job thats why i hired him, so let me park the micro bus in a good spot and put up my peace signs by the side of the road lite up a fattie and i'll be all ready to take a trip down memory lane with ya's

[Drewbot]

Whose idea was it to protect the MRP from legitimate questions?

[RedRatSnake]

I can't say it was an idea at all there was no talk about any certain was to handle it except to try and keep it civil, the staff did know it was going to be a real hot issue but no one expected what ended up happening, i was pretty much in there all the time and i know everyone thinks i was trying to protect the MRP but in fact i was just doing the same thing i had always done and that was to keep the peace and try to keep the thread on track, it got all screwed up when the location got outed, personally that really got me upset cause the persons that owned the area were getting calls and harassed and i thought that was wrong, the entire thread and the MRP got lost in a ton of personal issues, hey i liked listening to those sounds and i thought it was a good thing for folks to be able to try and solve what was making them and i think some did but it all got lost in a mess and yet again divided even more folks up

[William Parcher]

it got all screwed up when the location got outed, personally that really got me upset cause the persons that owned the area were getting calls and harassed and i thought that was wrong

Don't you understand that the landowner is almost certainly the hoaxer(s)?

try and solve what was making them and i think some did

The ones who declared the sounds to be human hoaxers, right?

[William Parcher]

We've just passed the one year anniversary for the public release of the MRP. Nobody is even talking about it anymore. So many on the BFF said it was a major thing. Here are three selected quotes.

"This is absolutely incredible. The best thing to happen in this field....ever… in my opinion from following this field (Bigfootery) for so many years - the best chance out there for finally making some much needed(and long awaited) progress"

"This research is very exciting, especially considering the ramifications which could very well stem from it. I'd say the phrase "life changing" definitely applies here. The P&G film - tired, talked to death and forever inconclusive...this on the other hand is happening now, it's exciting, real, and comes from folks who's honesty is above reproach, and that makes all the difference in the world"

"IMO this is THE most exciting thing to come along in the field of bigfoot research in....well forever" (posted by BFF Admin)

[RedRatSnake]

See the thing is i don't really care if there is a bigfoot or not makes no difference to me at all, i am not all crazy into it that i worry about hoaxers or people like Janice C, as a mod all i cared about was folks treating folks like real people, as far as the sounds i was interested cause they were pretty good recordings and were i live we don't have anything like that so i was getting into them along with many others, it was not up to me to worry about hoaxing that is the members job all i wanted to do was keep the peace and try and enforce the rules best i could

[William Parcher]

See the thing is i don't really care if there is a bigfoot or not makes no difference to me at all,


But you do believe that Bigfoot exists, yes?

[RedRatSnake]

I am 50/50 cause i think there is something out there that people are seeing so i am interested just as i am with sea monster sightings, i don't like to believe in things i can't see or have not been documented but that don't keep me from reading about it.

[William Parcher]

i don't like to believe in things i can't see or have not been documented


Right on, dude! (http://www.teamnesra.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=138&st=120)


Hello

looks like a good forum i am glad to be here, i am a BF beliver...... and have been for some 35 or so yrs, i am also into reptiles and anything crypto,

Peace
Tim

[RedRatSnake]

What was that like two years ago, i have said i am a believer many times over the years cause i do think something is out there, my outlook at it might change a bit as the years go by cause i have not seen any solid info come in, can i ask why is matters so much if i believe in bf or not ?

[William Parcher]

can i ask why is matters so much if i believe in bf or not ?


I keep seeing this behavior with Bigfooters. They describe their belief characteristics differently to pro-Bigfooters as compared to skeptics. You did it. You told NESRA that you were a Bigfoot believer for 35 years but you just told JREF that you don't believe in anything you can't see or is already documented. That's really a contradiction and not a semantical nuance.


i do think something is out there

You mean a non-human bipedal primate, or a creature like that?

[RedRatSnake]

you just get into this way to much and it takes away from the answers you are getting, if you think i am certifiable your very much right i am and most likely way beyond most normal folks because of the things that have happened in my life, so you can go looking to find out whats in my mind but don't get lost in there :) when i first came to all the bf forums that i joined i was all gun hoe thinking there was great evidence to support such an animal, i thought the foot prints and sightings etc were taken seriously and there were people that knew were these things lived, i thought the Janice C tale was true, hey how was i too know it was bs there was a big following and i like to give folks credit before i call them a lier, after a few years on the forums i have learned very much and now pretty much just take the personal sightings as the only real evidence and there pretty hard to understand at times so i am 50/50 with it, i'll stay interested but at the same time i know it is most likely not true

[WGBH]

Tim,

I thought you said you read this forum before? If you did you would know that parcher has the time to dig through all the Bigfoot Websites and forums to dig up posts. He will then take them out of context or edit them to his needs. For someone who does not believe in Bigfoot, he spends more time reading about them then almost anyone I know, except Henry May or Bill Green. Don't feed the trolls Tim.

[William Parcher]

One thing that fascinates me is the contradictions. These pairs do not go together...

i am a BF beliver and have been for some 35 or so yrs

i don't like to believe in things i can't see or have not been documented

i do think something is out there

i know it is most likely not true

i am 50/50 with it

i know it is most likely not true

[William Parcher]

parcher has the time to dig through all the Bigfoot Websites and forums to dig up posts.

It only took a few minutes with Yahoo Search and "redratsnake". Boom the NESRA belief quote pops right up. For "John Cartwright Bigfoot" boom the haven't told family and Patterson gravesite pop right up.

[RedRatSnake]

lol it's all in good fun so far, but it is getting a bit boring talking about if i believe in bf or not, hell i'll believe in the tooth fairy if i thought i could wake up with money under my pillow, Hey ! let's talk about the hundreds of folks i single handedly baned while i was a vicious dictating mod that could be interesting

[William Parcher]

It only took a few minutes with Yahoo Search and "redratsnake". Boom the NESRA belief quote pops right up. For "John Cartwright Bigfoot" boom the haven't told family and Patterson gravesite pop right up.


Don't feed the trolls Tim.

Nice, Captain 9x6.

[mikeyx]

Just a quick sidenote, yesterday it was speculated that this might not be Tim. One day later, he has a new avatar. It's Tim, and you stand corrected.

:D

[RedRatSnake]

My original feelings

i am a BF beliver and have been for some 35 or so yrs
i do think something is out there

after spending time on the bf forums

i don't like to believe in things i can't see or have not been documented
i know it is most likely not true


same answer different words

i know it is most likely not true
i am 50/50 with it

There ya go now they all go with each other

[William Parcher]

i know it is most likely not true
i am 50/50 with it

There ya go now they all go with each other

LOL. You really don't get it after all. 50/50 is an expression of probability. In your case, it means that Bigfoot has an equal chance of existing or not existing. But then to say that it is most likely not true is different than 50/50. That's the same as probably not true which does not have a 50/50 chance.

[RedRatSnake]

hey if i was not 50/50 then you would not be able to use all those big words and make yourself look like you know whats going on, are you done with me now cause this is going no wear and my brain hurts

[GT/CS]

LOL. You really don't get it after all. 50/50 is an expression of probability. In your case, it means that Bigfoot has an equal chance of existing or not existing. But then to say that it is most likely not true is different than 50/50. That's the same as probably not true which does not have a 50/50 chance.

Who cares. Cut the guy some slack. We really don't need another thread going to AAH.

Tim,
How do you see the change in management affecting Bill Munns' status on the BFF?
CD

[mikeyx]

Who cares. Cut the guy some slack. We really don't need another thread going to AAH.

Tim,
How do you see the change in management affecting Bill Munns' status on the BFF?
CD

Interesting question, did Bipto ever voice a particular opinion, good bad or indifferent towards any matter Munns?

[RedRatSnake]

Don't know if i can really give a good answer on that one, as far as i know the folks i was always talking too liked Bill and thought his work was pretty interesting and could at some point find the answer to that film with out having to rely on people and there testimonies, far as i know film don't lie or fabricate things so it too me seems like the best way to get to the bottom of the PGF saga, i hope the new management recognizes that and let's him go along and keep publishing his findings with out too much trouble. hope that answers your question somewhat

[RedRatSnake]

Interesting question, did Bipto ever voice a particular opinion, good bad or indifferent towards any matter Munns?

By the time i got to mod Bipto was already gone, i never read anything from him about Bill M

I always got a feeing that Bill got a hard time cause he got caught up in the believer vs skeptic feud that has been going on about that film, i think all he wants to do is see if he can find an answer, i talked to him alot and he seemed like a nice guy thats knows an awful lot about the film industry and hollywood stuff, i was always bewildered as to why some folks would try and make him look like he didn't know what he was doing, the man is at the top of the game and has resources most only dream about.

[Drewbot]

Tim, I still don't know why I got banned, can you fill me in on that?

[RedRatSnake]

Best as i remember you posted some phone numbers or address of the folks that owned the property that the MRP was on, you were asked to stop a few times and you kept posting personal stuff, some wear in there i suspended you for a bit and then is was decided to let you back after a few days when you came back you started were you left off so a vote was taken and you were banned, if i recall you were let back for a while cause the higher up wanted you in there and after the thread was closed you were back out

[kitakaze]

I would like to ask Tim if I was any factor at all in him leaving. We were communicating in private and public all nice like, then something seemed to snap. Then he was curt and snarky. Then he was no longer a mod. Then he was letting it all out on the swastika nutjob's blop. Tim, did I pee in your pool?

[RedRatSnake]

Kit when you came along there was already a change in the air to go back to a more aggressive way on the forum, i was not very happy with the way things were going since around Feb of this year, i didn't like you cross posting from that forum to here and asked the admins many times to ask you to stop but i think it was just falling on deaf ears at that point cause i was already speaking out about the turn the forum was taking, i really did not think it was fair that you got away with it and others got banned for it, but it was a combo of things that finally got to me and i left.

[Drewbot]

Has anyone found out which sockpuppets are mine over there? I have six.

[William Parcher]

Best as i remember you posted some phone numbers or address of the folks that owned the property that the MRP was on

He posted the phone number or address of the owner? You're joking right?

[RedRatSnake]

I can't help you on that one, i am sure if they knew the isp would be blocked

[Drewbot]

He posted the phone number or address of the owner? You're joking right?

He may be referring to the newspaper article, which was published and distributed to the WORLD, that I posted on the BFF, the article contained the name of the owner, WHICH HE FREELY GAVE TO THE NEWSPAPER REPORTER.

I thought about arguing it with him, but he was mostly doing the dirty work for others.

[kitakaze]

Kit when you came along there was already a change in the air to go back to a more aggressive way on the forum, i was not very happy with the way things were going since around Feb of this year, i didn't like you cross posting from that forum to here and asked the admins many times to ask you to stop but i think it was just falling on deaf ears at that point cause i was already speaking out about the turn the forum was taking, i really did not think it was fair that you got away with it and others got banned for it, but it was a combo of things that finally got to me and i left.

Whoa, what? Hold the phone, Tim. Are you talking about having a problem with my posting the same things here and the BFF. Like duplicate posts? You mean the great big monster posts where I transcribed something or reported on an interview? Is that what you were calling cross-posting and complaining about? Really? Because I know I wasn't taking a post from one forum and responding to it on another. That is cross-posting. Tim, think about it. I am engaging in investigative journalism. I am reporting. Reporting to the JREF and reporting to the BFF. What do I have to do - go in and flip around transitive verbs? Write it twice in a noticably different way? I sometimes do that, but there is no way I'm going to do that all the time.

I think you had much more problem than that. I think the way I was talking about Roger made you verklempt. It's OK, you can say that here. I wouldn't hold it against you at all.

[RedRatSnake]

He may be referring to the newspaper article, which was published and distributed to the WORLD, that I posted on the BFF, the article contained the name of the owner, WHICH HE FREELY GAVE TO THE NEWSPAPER REPORTER.

I thought about arguing it with him, but he was mostly doing the dirty work for others.

I don't remember seeing any of the address but i do remember some of the posts had edits in them from the admins, at that time the place was total chaos and getting way out of control so there was little to do than start to rein in the folks that were most vocal and were not cooperating all that well, i was not a mod all that long and that whole thing really took me for a ride, but i share any blame no matter how you look at it cause when there was action i was right in there with my vote