Jesus in the clouds photo - explanation?? [Archive]

Seoigeach

14th May 2009, 08:54 AM

Sorry if this has been dealt with elsewhere .... i did a search for "jesus in the clouds" and didn't find anything.

in the 1980's distant relations of my fathers family (who lived in Canada) travelled to Ireland to meet all the relatives and "find their roots".

A few months after they had returned home they sent an envelope of photos to my grandmother with pics from their trip (nothing strange there).

However, in the same envelope was a card with 4 strange photos in it and a note .... the basic story was - on their way home as they flew over newfoundland one of them snapped the last few shots out the window of the plane. When they developed the shots there was a strange figure in the clouds - exactly the same as this shot below.
http://bibleprobe.com/christinclouds-tn.jpg

(i'm convinced this photo was one of the same shots - it was a long time ago, but you don't forget these kind of things).

I vaguely remember there being one with a face in it too. Now, my brother and I were always sceptical about these - and in fairness to my gran she hid them away and were never flaunted again.

Is there a story behind these shots? Photo developers freaking out customers?

or i wonder could our relations have done this to confirm their and my grandmothers belief (i don't expect anyone to know the answer to this).

I saw these photos online recently and recognised them straight away - so it got me wondering?

thanks in advance

UNLoVedRebel

14th May 2009, 09:16 AM

fake

IXP

14th May 2009, 09:17 AM

Not likely manipulation, more likely a picture of clouds and pareidolia. It took me a while to even find the supposed image.

Bob

Lonewulf

14th May 2009, 09:42 AM

A photo doesn't necessarily have to be faked to give an astonishing likeness to something. The human brain is good at taking abstract images and making order out of them. That's why two dots and a parenthesis can look like a smiley face. : )

Skeptic Ginger

14th May 2009, 09:44 AM

Skeptic Ginger

14th May 2009, 09:49 AM

Not likely manipulation, ...On what do you base that conclusion?

paximperium

14th May 2009, 09:54 AM

Looks a whole lot like Obi-Wan Kenobi

Steve

14th May 2009, 09:55 AM

Why "Jesus"? Could be any dude in a bathrobe. We can't even see his (or her) face. Let's change the thread title to "Leroy in the clouds". Ok?

Skeptic Ginger

14th May 2009, 09:55 AM

Compare the image to this one that looks suspiciously like a mirror image of it. (http://image03.webshots.com/3/4/48/39/1044839_ph.jpg)

drapier

14th May 2009, 09:57 AM

Looks like a fake. http://www.abc-people.com/phenomenons/ghosts/photo9.htm has more versions of the shot. Probably a double exposure.

richardm

14th May 2009, 09:59 AM

If you have a bit of a rummage round the internet, you can find better quality copies of the image - e.g. http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9536/photo91.jpg

I think that's clear enough to call it a fake rather than pareidolia.

Edit: Substantially beaten by Skeptigirl and Drapier :D

Skeptic Ginger

14th May 2009, 10:08 AM

Here's a link to a website with both pictures. claiming to have gotten it from:

BibleProbe (http://bibleprobe.com/jesusinclouds.htm)I was a missionary in Northern California between 1988-91 and during one of my visits to an old woman I
was given this photograph. She left it to me because we'd spoken about ghosts and she had no one to pass the photo on to. I've had it in my photo album for years now.

The story behind the second image is even weirder. I'll let those interested see for themselves at the website.

Also, they claim the image is copyrighted so be careful about reposting it rather than linking to the site.

coalesce

14th May 2009, 10:11 AM

So Jesus needs clothes in Heaven?

My guess: these are clouds with some fakery thrown in for good measure.

Michael

Vortigern99

14th May 2009, 10:20 AM

What's the mystery? It's either 1) a double exposure, 2) an image projected on a pane of glass in front of the camera lens, or 3) a picture of Jesus in his first, failed attempt at a Second Coming.

Your choice.

Seoigeach

14th May 2009, 10:33 AM

It looks like a fake, but if it isn't then it's just an unusual cloud formation.

I'd bet money on fake though. And much as I'm still welcoming you to the board, new member Seoigeach, I don't believe your story that you can personally trace the photo to a relative who actually took the picture. That's a common ploy and/or for some people who believe something incredible and want to be believed when they pass it on, a common false embellishment.
Hi skeptigirl ... i think you mis-read the point i was making about this. I have always thought the photos (there were a few) were fake. Finding other similar versions of the photo that i've found online just about confirmed the fakery for me.

My question was - have these photos ever been found out? where do they come from? I just thought this might be documented.

As for not believeing my story - if you read it again ... these photos or some like them were sent to my grandmother by distant relations who i have no contact with.

My theory has always been that developers were making these and freaking customers out.

for the record - i don't believe in ghosts, goblins, god or gremlins ... so i'm not trying to add authenticity to these photos.

Seoigeach

14th May 2009, 10:40 AM

to clear up anymore misunderstanding here .... i found the pic on google images by typing in "jesus in the clouds" .... I'm not claiming the shot i posted was one of the pics my gran has - it just looks so like it ....

it made me think mmmmm - there's more of these floating around - smells like fakery to me!!

madurobob

14th May 2009, 10:45 AM

This seems to have been a pretty popular picture in the 70s
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/valleyindependent/jubilation/s_663.html
Charlton's neighbor, Kim Davies, said she recalled the same photo being passed around her school bus in the early 1970s.

learner

14th May 2009, 10:47 AM

madurobob

14th May 2009, 10:50 AM

And note this one.. from Time in 1951 - sounds like the same pic:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,889383,00.html

Seoigeach

14th May 2009, 10:52 AM

Jesus was short, fat and bald. Aint him. ;)
:D and the robe's too long - he always favoured a nice knee-length one ... can't be him.

maybe its Arthur Dent

Yeah_Right

14th May 2009, 10:58 AM

:D and the robe's too long - he always favoured a nice knee-length one ... can't be him.

maybe its Arthur Dent

Nope not Arthur, he doesn't have a towel.

Seoigeach

14th May 2009, 11:01 AM

And note this one.. from Time in 1951 - sounds like the same pic:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,889383,00.html
thank you so much - that link seems to go some way to explaining it.

its like the cottingley fairies all over again

... "With him, Burnham had an identical picture in color, which he had obtained from an Air Force photo laboratory technician in England in 1944. The technician, whose name Burnham did not remember, had told Burnham he had taken a picture of a B-17 bombing mission over Europe and painted in the picture of Christ. He planned to sell pictures to airmen as souvenirs. Said Burnham: "I thought it was time people found out the truth. The thing has been carried too far. Some people are actually beginning to believe that stuff about the picture."

Seoigeach

14th May 2009, 11:21 AM

Nope not Arthur, he doesn't have a towel.
of course .... the towel!

inexcusable error ;)

Skeptic Ginger

14th May 2009, 11:27 AM

Hi skeptigirl ... i think you mis-read the point i was making about this. I have always thought the photos (there were a few) were fake. Finding other similar versions of the photo that i've found online just about confirmed the fakery for me.

My question was - have these photos ever been found out? where do they come from? I just thought this might be documented.

As for not believeing my story - if you read it again ... these photos or some like them were sent to my grandmother by distant relations who i have no contact with.

My theory has always been that developers were making these and freaking customers out.

for the record - i don't believe in ghosts, goblins, god or gremlins ... so i'm not trying to add authenticity to these photos.Thanks for clarifying that, yes I did misunderstand. I thought you were saying your relatives took the fotos from the plane.

I wouldn't be surprised to find these fotos have been circulating for decades.

Skeptic Ginger

14th May 2009, 11:34 AM

And note this one.. from Time in 1951 - sounds like the same pic:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,889383,00.htmlAnd that picture of a page in the link I posted has one of the images in Marilyn Manson's autobiography from 1998, The Long Hard Road out of Hell. (http://www.amazon.com/Long-Hard-Road-Out-Hell/dp/0060987464)

Seoigeach

14th May 2009, 11:40 AM

Thanks for clarifying that, yes I did misunderstand. I thought you were saying your relatives took the fotos from the plane.

I wouldn't be surprised to find these fotos have been circulating for decades.
exactly ... they seem to be "doing-the-rounds" for a long time now.

It seems from the time.com link that madurobob posted that they're probably on the go since the 50's

... and thank you very much for the welcome by the way. its great to chat to people who question and analyse things. You were right to question my story if you thought thats what i was at.

Big Les

14th May 2009, 11:51 AM

thank you so much - that link seems to go some way to explaining it.

its like the cottingley fairies all over again

... "With him, Burnham had an identical picture in color, which he had obtained from an Air Force photo laboratory technician in England in 1944. The technician, whose name Burnham did not remember, had told Burnham he had taken a picture of a B-17 bombing mission over Europe and painted in the picture of Christ. He planned to sell pictures to airmen as souvenirs. Said Burnham: "I thought it was time people found out the truth. The thing has been carried too far. Some people are actually beginning to believe that stuff about the picture."

It's not the same pic as that one - see Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/photos/natural/jesusclouds.asp).

The OP pic made it into Richard Wiseman's "Science of Ghosts" event;

http://scienceofghosts.wordpress.com/2009/03/31/cloud-ghost/

Definitive debunking seems elusive on this one. Suffice to say it's probably not Jeebus. ;)

madurobob

14th May 2009, 11:57 AM

It's not the same pic as that one - see Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/photos/natural/jesusclouds.asp).

The OP pic made it into Richard Wiseman's "Science of Ghosts" event;

http://scienceofghosts.wordpress.com/2009/03/31/cloud-ghost/

Definitive debunking seems elusive on this one. Suffice to say it's probably not Jeebus. ;)

Yep - good catch. The 50s Time article must be the Che Guevara looking image with the bombers. Makes sense given the Korean War connection.

alfaniner

14th May 2009, 05:12 PM

It's funny what people can see in a cloud formation. 244 comments on this one, many about seeing Jesus in it.
XGXwkv0N3uM

kitakaze

14th May 2009, 05:15 PM

Awesome! I needed a Jesus sighting with photographic evidence.

Yeah, that's Jesus in the clouds. Lucy with the diamonds was cropped out.:D

ParrotPirate

14th May 2009, 07:52 PM

Looks to me like a poorly developed pic of some sort of Preist. Maybe something spilled during developing?

Dorcas

14th May 2009, 11:23 PM

Excellent cloud image of a man about to dive out of a cup. Let us make pilgrimage.

Jedi_Master

14th May 2009, 11:59 PM

And note this one.. from Time in 1951 - sounds like the same pic:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,889383,00.html

Howdy folks...

I live in Ashland KY (Catlettsburg to be exact), and I remember seeing this photo in the early 70's, in the Daily Independent...

Don't rember the exact story line but I belive the Time link has it correct, and it is the same pic that I rember it in the OP...

Frankenstyle

17th May 2009, 11:42 AM

Lucky

17th May 2009, 03:48 PM

Ha, I remember my grandmother having this photo. As I recall, that must have been sometime in the late 80s when I first saw it, and it looked liked it'd been tucked away in the back of her china cabinet for years.

I also remember that if you looked on the back, you could tell it was more of a postcard than a photograph, and it had some sort of little inspirational message in fine print. If I recall correctly, it claimed that the photo had been taken by a fighter pilot who had just miraculously survived being nearly shot down. Maybe during WW2, or perhaps Korea, but I'm not sure on that.

I assume all these stories of people remembering Grandma's "photo", are just cases of people misremembering seeing the clever variant of a bible tract that grandma brought home from church one Sunday.

I assume so, too.

Seoigeach, don't you think you might have misremembered something that happened more than 20 years ago, when you were (presumably) a child? It seems that your "card with 4 strange photos" was the same as Frankenstyle's "postcard".

Perhaps your distant relatives didn't actually claim to have taken the photos themselves. Perhaps they just included the card with their holiday pics as an extra little gift, thinking your grandmother would appreciate it (or they were pushing their religion). They might even have passed on the (fake) story of how the pictures were taken that they were told when they bought or received the postcard. If so (and it seems more probable than that they told your grandmother a barefaced lie), then you have given us a good demonstration of something that's very common in the development of urban legends. Each person passing on a third-hand story misses out one person in the chain (usually unintentionally), so the chain never lengthens.

Hound01

17th May 2009, 04:32 PM

Photos like this are so unconvincing on so many levels.
They are so easy to fake and this one with no foreground for perspective could have easily been done in a studio. But, even if it is not a fake, so what? Given the number of clouds world wide it would be surprising if one of them didn't look like a person from time to time.

George152

17th May 2009, 09:32 PM

The first time I came across this story was supposedly during WW2 when a fighter pilot switched on his gun camera (impossible as the camera only operated when the guns were fired). The same image shown here appeared on the exposed film...

Skeptic Ginger

17th May 2009, 10:11 PM

....

Perhaps your distant relatives didn't actually claim to have taken the photos themselves.....He already clarified he was not making this claim.

Lucky

18th May 2009, 06:11 AM

....

Perhaps your distant relatives didn't actually claim to have taken the photos themselves.....
He already clarified he was not making this claim.

No, you misunderstood - that's precisely the claim. From the OP:
A few months after they had returned home they sent an envelope of photos to my grandmother with pics from their trip (nothing strange there).

However, in the same envelope was a card with 4 strange photos in it and a note .... the basic story was - on their way home as they flew over newfoundland one of them snapped the last few shots out the window of the plane. When they developed the shots there was a strange figure in the clouds - exactly the same as this shot below.
...
Is there a story behind these shots? Photo developers freaking out customers?

or i wonder could our relations have done this to confirm their and my grandmothers belief (i don't expect anyone to know the answer to this).

The clarification was that Seoigeach always believed the photos were faked.

JohnG

18th May 2009, 08:02 AM

Looks like a still from a silent movie or an attempt at spirit photography.

quarky

18th May 2009, 08:07 AM

Does a cloud need to drip blood on you people before you'll admit its Jesus?

(Dripping blood seems to help with the Virgin Mary apparitions)

Seoigeach

18th May 2009, 08:10 AM

No, you misunderstood - that's precisely the claim. From the OP:

The clarification was that Seoigeach always believed the photos were faked.
in fairness, you're point is valid. I remember seeing the pics a long, long time ago.

I was a child, so that story could easily have been fed to me much later if i asked where they came from. But that is the story my brother and I were told.

I wouldn't give the story too much credence at all. I never really did... my brother and i always felt that if the story WAS true, that the developers might have concocted the photos in develpoment to freak out customers or as a gag.

My concern really in regard to the photos was, having seen them online, where they had originated from. And who had faked them.

From all the posts here, they seem to be doing the rounds a long time and one of the photos is a confirmed hoax.

Typicallucas

18th May 2009, 08:39 AM

That ain't Jesus... THIS is Jesus: http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_278094a11811ba1d94.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=16364)

PrincessIneffabelle

18th May 2009, 06:00 PM

Does a cloud need to drip blood on you people before you'll admit its Jesus?

No, but if it could smite a few fig trees, I'd sit up and pay attention.

:D

Skeptic Ginger

19th May 2009, 05:29 PM

No, you misunderstood - that's precisely the claim. From the OP:

The clarification was that Seoigeach always believed the photos were faked.Which is what I said, Seoigeach was not claiming the story was real.

So in other words, you are clarifying that you think Seoig could be remembering wrong OR the relative's story was a fib? OK, I see.

tsig

19th May 2009, 06:25 PM

Does a cloud need to drip blood on you people before you'll admit its Jesus?

(Dripping blood seems to help with the Virgin Mary apparitions)

Only if we have divine DNA to match it to.

Dingoboy

20th May 2009, 12:59 AM

I think it is a reincarnated Thylacine which has just received enlightenment.

Soapy Sam

20th May 2009, 05:30 AM

There seem to be rather a lot of Grandmothers involved in this story.

Lucky

20th May 2009, 05:47 AM

Which is what I said, Seoigeach was not claiming the story was real.

So in other words, you are clarifying that you think Seoig could be remembering wrong OR the relative's story was a fib? OK, I see.
Their story obviously could have been a fib, but it doesn't seem very likely. Why would they want to fool an elderly distant relative who they were never going to meet again?

My point is that it's more likely that Seoigeach, or the grandmother (or someone else in the chain) remembered wrong, and the relatives never claimed to have taken the photos themselves. My guess is that the "note" on Seoigeach's card was the same as the "little inspirational message in fine print" on Frankenstyle's - that, in fact, they were the same mass-produced card.

Seoigeach

27th May 2009, 03:24 AM

Their story obviously could have been a fib, but it doesn't seem very likely. Why would they want to fool an elderly distant relative who they were never going to meet again?

My point is that it's more likely that Seoigeach, or the grandmother (or someone else in the chain) remembered wrong, and the relatives never claimed to have taken the photos themselves. My guess is that the "note" on Seoigeach's card was the same as the "little inspirational message in fine print" on Frankenstyle's - that, in fact, they were the same mass-produced card.
... the story could easily have been made up to make sure we believe in the floating man in the sky too though - thats very possible. They were telling us about santy claus for years ;)

on another note .... why do "ghosts" and "apparitions" always wear clothes? strange that isn't it? is there a huge after-life wardrobe that you can pick and choose from? Robes seem to be very popular with ghosties and dieties.... nice and comfy i suppose for when you're floating around shrines and believers with cameras.

I'm waiting to see a vision of jeebus or shiva or whatever floating in the sky wearing cowboy boots and a motorcycle jacket!

SlayerofCliffracers

27th May 2009, 04:21 AM

Easy.

Clouds make all sorts of shapes. There are literally millions of clouds.

Eventually a cloud will arise that looks like a man wearing Jesus garb. And bingo, there we have it. Jesus in the clouds.

FramerDave

27th May 2009, 08:16 AM

Here's a link to a website with both pictures. claiming to have gotten it from:

BibleProbe (http://bibleprobe.com/jesusinclouds.htm)

The story behind the second image is even weirder. I'll let those interested see for themselves at the website.

Also, they claim the image is copyrighted so be careful about reposting it rather than linking to the site.

Ugh. From the Bible Probe tale of the picture: "The next day she dropped the film off to be developed and soon received a call from the frantic clerk. He said, 'Something strange has occurred. All the pictures developed perfect, except for one.'"

I'm sure every one of us here has had one or two lousy shots per roll when we have had film developed. Has anyone here ever gotten a call from a "frantic clerk" to let us know that a shot did not come out? Sounds like a typical fairy tale/urban legend embellishment.

I'll never understand why religious people feel it's ok to lie for the Greater Glory of God.

jadebox

27th May 2009, 08:44 AM

This seems to have been a pretty popular picture in the 70s ....

I recall my aunt showing me one of those photos back in the 1970s. I was around 13 years old and wasn't very impressed.

She also told me the story that was going around them about the vanishing hitchhiker. I was gullible back then (I read all the books on UFOs), but I wasn't gullible enough to believe those stories.

-- Roger

Lucian

27th May 2009, 11:33 AM

... the story could easily have been made up to make sure we believe in the floating man in the sky too though - thats very possible. They were telling us about santy claus for years ;)

on another note .... why do "ghosts" and "apparitions" always wear clothes? strange that isn't it? is there a huge after-life wardrobe that you can pick and choose from? Robes seem to be very popular with ghosties and dieties.... nice and comfy i suppose for when you're floating around shrines and believers with cameras.

I'm waiting to see a vision of jeebus or shiva or whatever floating in the sky wearing cowboy boots and a motorcycle jacket!

Well, there's Ghost-Mart, of course, but I hear they outsource. You think conditions and hours are bad at sweatshops in this plane of existence--imagine what they're like in the afterlife.

JoeTheJuggler

27th May 2009, 06:36 PM

Does a cloud need to drip blood on you people before you'll admit its Jesus?

(Dripping blood seems to help with the Virgin Mary apparitions)

Um. . .no it doesn't. I think you'll find that skeptics are just as skeptical of claims that include dripping blood. It doesn't win us over.

Obviously it's Jesus standing on a cloud just like in the cartoons. Anyone with a more nuanced theology is wrong. Jesus ascended into heaven physically and he goes cruising around on his skateboard-cloud. These photos are pretty boring. I'd like to see one where he's doing an Ollie Airwalk 360. (I have no idea if that's meaningful.) ;)

kittynh

27th May 2009, 06:42 PM

Joe Nickell covers this photograph and has it in his book "Entities". I was oddly just reading it this morning!!

One problem is the story is NEVER the same. The story he talks about is the people on their honeymoon and their plane hits turbulance. They pray, the tubulance goes away, and the photo they took out the window is THAT PHOTOGRAPH.

oohhhhhh...