Fox news admits waterboarding is illegal

[Ysidro]

Coworker has it on right now. Of course, they're only saying it now because of Pelosi.

I'm not surprised yet this still hurts my brain. The doublethink is... painful.

[mortimer]

Coworker has it on right now. Of course, they're only saying it now because of Pelosi.

I'm not surprised yet this still hurts my brain. The doublethink is... painful.
Shep Smith said it. Not surprising; he's criticized waterboarding before.

"By the way, waterboarding is illegal. It is considered torture by the President, Attorney General, and others. It's banned under the Army Field Manual." - Shep Smith

[Cicero]

Coworker has it on right now. Of course, they're only saying it now because of Pelosi.

I'm not surprised yet this still hurts my brain. The doublethink is... painful.

Where were you on April 28?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=141369

[Ysidro]

Where were you on April 28?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=141369

Not watching Faux News. :p

[mortimer]

Not watching Faux News. :p
Typical. Those who criticize Fox News don't actually watch it. They hear sound bites from some of their opinion shows like O'Reilly and Hannity.

[Praktik]

Typical. Those who criticize Fox News don't actually watch it. They hear sound bites from some of their opinion shows like O'Reilly and Hannity.

I watch it - and criticize it.

Well, excepting their bile-inducing morning show.

Egadz!

[Slayhamlet]

The entire news organization declared water-boarding illegal?

[Ysidro]

Typical. Those who criticize Fox News don't actually watch it. They hear sound bites from some of their opinion shows like O'Reilly and Hannity.

Maybe you should pay attention. I wasn't watching it back then. I was watching it today. Couldn't have watched it on the 28th if I wanted to because I have no cable and was at a work site without TV. The site I'm at today has cable news going 24/7 in the command center. I think the bosses think it impresses the clients.

Is getting criticized for not watching something you actually did by someone who didn't read what you wrote count as irony? Alanis sort of ruined me on the concept.

[Ysidro]

The entire news organization declared water-boarding illegal?

Is there a name for this fallacy? The "You Didn't Get Specific Enough for Me" fallacy?

They don't seem to have any overt problem with Sheppard saying what he did if he said it at least twice. If the folks in the upstairs office think otherwise, they're staying quiet.

Probably because of Pelosi.

Which was my point.

[mortimer]

Maybe you should pay attention. I wasn't watching it back then. I was watching it today. Couldn't have watched it on the 28th if I wanted to because I have no cable and was at a work site without TV. The site I'm at today has cable news going 24/7 in the command center. I think the bosses think it impresses the clients.

Is getting criticized for not watching something you actually did by someone who didn't read what you wrote count as irony? Alanis sort of ruined me on the concept.
So I assume your coworker didn't watch it on the 28th, and for some reason you can't watch it even though your coworker can. Am I correct so far?

So when were you watching it when they indicated that waterboarding was NOT illegal? Just asking, since you accused them of doublespeak.

[Ysidro]

So I assume your coworker didn't watch it on the 28th, and for some reason you can't watch it even though your coworker can. Am I correct so far?

So when were you watching it when they indicated that waterboarding was NOT illegal? Just asking, since you accused them of doublespeak.

Perhaps he did watch it, I don't know. I was at a different site that week. I don't even know if he was paying attention today. It was only on because he likes it and I can usually ignore it (and to be fair, I tend to ignore most cable news. Not a fan of the 24 hour channels in general.)

So, can I point at a time a regular broadcaster on the channel said waterboarding was not illegal? No, I cannot. I will freely admit I do not keep notes on every little comment I hear. I will also freely admit I am basing my opinion on the commonly held belief that conservitives in general (in GENERAL, if you missed that) support the policies of the previous administration in regards to "enhanced interrogation". In addition, I am working on the commonly held belief that Fox News tends strongly to the conservative side of arguments (otherwise, I'm not sure why my conservative workmates would parrot their statements so much).

I fully understand this is only my opinion an dmy be coming out of a lower orifice. Hopefully, you can point out where a regular contributor to Fox News had spoken out against waterboarding and other "enhanced" techniques. Preferably sometime around when this story broke the first time and not when Democrats were suddenly getting implicated.

[mortimer]

Perhaps he did watch it, I don't know. I was at a different site that week. I don't even know if he was paying attention today. It was only on because he likes it and I can usually ignore it (and to be fair, I tend to ignore most cable news. Not a fan of the 24 hour channels in general.)

So, can I point at a time a regular broadcaster on the channel said waterboarding was not illegal? No, I cannot. I will freely admit I do not keep notes on every little comment I hear. I will also freely admit I am basing my opinion on the commonly held belief that conservitives in general (in GENERAL, if you missed that) support the policies of the previous administration in regards to "enhanced interrogation". In addition, I am working on the commonly held belief that Fox News tends strongly to the conservative side of arguments (otherwise, I'm not sure why my conservative workmates would parrot their statements so much).

I fully understand this is only my opinion an dmy be coming out of a lower orifice. Hopefully, you can point out where a regular contributor to Fox News had spoken out against waterboarding and other "enhanced" techniques. Preferably sometime around when this story broke the first time and not when Democrats were suddenly getting implicated.
You made the claim that Fox News was engaging in doublespeak, so I would expect that you provide such evidence.

[Ysidro]

You made the claim that Fox News was engaging in doublespeak, so I would expect that you provide such evidence.

Amazing, huh?

[mortimer]

Amazing, huh?
I take it that you cannot provide such evidence. I'm not amazed, nor surprised.

[Thunder]

Typical. Those who criticize Fox News don't actually watch it.

evidence?

[Ysidro]

I take it that you cannot provide such evidence. I'm not amazed, nor surprised.

So, you didn't actually read that post where I admited as such? Where I asked your help in showing me where Fox did indeed speak out against torture? I know you don't have to; I'm the one who made the argument. But it would certainly help open my eyes.

Still, you seem to prefer to not read that and keep asking me to admit something I already admitted.
:deadhorse

[Puppycow]

If Jack Bauer does it, it's not illegal.

[Whiplash]

I'm not amazed, nor surprised.


But are you amused?

[mortimer]

So, you didn't actually read that post where I admited as such? Where I asked your help in showing me where Fox did indeed speak out against torture? I know you don't have to; I'm the one who made the argument. But it would certainly help open my eyes.

Still, you seem to prefer to not read that and keep asking me to admit something I already admitted.
:deadhorse
No, you're right. I'm sorry. I think I need a vacation. :D

[Beerina]

The entire news organization declared water-boarding illegal?

Yah. Like the one little report buried in the CIA that suggests Israel may fall in 20 years if X, Y, and Z do or do not happen, suddenly it's the official position of the entire organization.

[kallsop]

The issue isn't the waterboarding, which is controversial, but Pelosi's credibility disappearing down the toilet. Her press conference last week was shambolic and she did herself no favors at all. Panetta is eating her lunch, but there is of course a very serious side to this. Having the Speaker, 3rd in line to the Presidency, undermining the CIA with her lies is not good for the nation.

[Darth Rotor]

The issue isn't the waterboarding, which is controversial, but Pelosi's credibility disappearing down the toilet. Her press conference last week was shambolic and she did herself no favors at all. Panetta is eating her lunch, but there is of course a very serious side to this. Having the Speaker, 3rd in line to the Presidency, undermining the CIA with her lies is not good for the nation.
While I have a gut agreement with you on her trying to play the blame game on the CIA, I think she's an experienced enough pol to survive this.

She is not the first pol to play the finger pointing game, nor will she be the last, with that particular element of the Executive Branch of Government. The seventies was a very rough time for CIA.

However, more recently, I do recall a great hue and cry over "intelligence failures" that was in a similar tone of blame.

DR

[Upchurch]

The issue isn't the waterboarding, which is controversial, but Pelosi's credibility disappearing down the toilet.
Why? Isn't whether or not the US has or will commit torture a much bigger issue?

[Darth Rotor]

Why? Isn't whether or not the US has or will commit torture a much bigger issue?
Is it? Has isn't even a question. Genral Hayden said it was done. Confirmed it. It's an issue if he said "we did three" and what was really done was "three hundred."

As to the fear that we might in the future: I want certain captives to be worried about that. The latent threat.

Absolutely. Makes "good cop" "bad cop" a more effective ploy.

DR

[Alferd_Packer]

Why? Isn't whether or not the US has or will commit torture a much bigger issue?

It's always the Democrat's fault, don't you know that by now?

[mortimer]

Makes "good cop" "bad cop" a more effective ploy.
I'm pretty sure "good cop" "bad cop" is considered torture under the Geneva conventions as well. Psychological damage and all...

[Upchurch]

Is it? Has isn't even a question. Genral Hayden said it was done. Confirmed it. It's an issue if he said "we did three" and what was really done was "three hundred."
No, I'm fairly certain "we did three" is still an issue.

As to the fear that we might in the future: I want certain captives to be worried about that. The latent threat.
Which also means that enemies will be much less likely to surrender to US forces if they know that they could be facing torture. Mission Accomplished.

[Whiplash]

Why?


You have no problem with the Speaker of the House making a possibly false charge of being lied to by the CIA?

The other problems are important, sure. But that is a serious charge.

[Upchurch]

You have no problem with the Speaker of the House making a possibly false charge of being lied to by the CIA?

The other problems are important, sure. But that is a serious charge.
Oh, I never said I had no problem with the Speaker making false charges.

What I have a problem with is the implication that the Speaker making false charges is a bigger issue than the US breaking its own laws and principles based on authorizations from the executive branch.

[Whiplash]

Oh, I never said I had no problem with the Speaker making false charges.


You are right, I was putting words in your mouth there, sorry.

What I have a problem with is the implication that the Speaker making false charges is a bigger issue than the US breaking its own laws and principles based on authorizations from the executive branch.


Ok then, I understand what you are saying. I mistook what you said as a means of diverting attention from her. If it turns out she is the one who lied, I hope there will be honest assessment of the situation from everyone. And if turns out the CIA lied, that would bother me greatly as well.

[Upchurch]

Ok then, I understand what you are saying. I mistook what you said as a means of diverting attention from her. If it turns out she is the one who lied, I hope there will be honest assessment of the situation from everyone. And if turns out the CIA lied, that would bother me greatly as well.
I agree. If either (or both, who knows) lied, they're douche bags. If someone within the US government authorized the use of torture, that's villainous.

In fact, I think this (genuine) flap with Pelosi is being used as a means of diverting attention from the actual issue.