InfoWars: "Supporting Our Troops is Aiding and Abetting War Crimes."

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

The America haters are really fired-up over some pictures that are supposed to be realeased from Abu Ghraib. I'm sure the pictures are horrible, but whats worse are articles like this one: http://www.infowars.com/if-they-knew-the-truth-theyd-hate-us-even-more/

It's full of gems like this:
Could it be that those baby faced soldiers we praise and pay tribute to are not as honorable as we would like to believe? According to the latest body keeping the Oval Office seat warm, release of photos showing the activities of our soldiers, activities ordered by George Bush and Dick Cheney, would make the world hate us more than they already do and would, as a consequence, endanger the lives of our soldiers. Just how horrible are these images? We shall discuss that shortly, but before we do, let us consider this claim itself by translating it into smaller statements:

1. If the world knew what we were really like, they would hate us more than that already do.
2. If the world knew what our soldiers do, they would rise up and kill our soldiers.
3. Our government cares about the lives of our soldiers, and so we cannot release the photos.

These are interesting assertions. The first assertion implies that anyone who knows the truth about us, would hate us, not because of who we are, but because of what we do. This contradicts strongly Bush’s assertion that “they hate us for our freedom.”

The second assertion implies that our soldiers are monsters, on an order equal to that of the worst soldiers history has known, for I know of few cases in history where populations have risen up to fight only because a nation’s soldiers were monstrous brutes. In short, this statement implies that the soldiers we are told to support unconditionally are war criminals. Said differently, supporting our troops is aiding and abetting war crimes.



I know we aren't perfect, but Jeezus!

[WildCat]

Infowars is an Alex Jones site. Jones is a crackpot conspiracy theorist who thinks the US government did the 9/11 attacks among other crazy stuff.

If it's on Infowars, likely it's complete BS.

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

If it's on Infowars, likely it's complete BS.

Indeed.

[Quad4_72]

Its all good. Our soldiers will just keep on defending his right to say whatever he wants, no matter how ridiculous it is.

[MG1962]

I was not aware supporting the troops meant total agreement with the policy in place that put them there to begin with

[Alex Libman]

Alex Jones is objectively correct in this case. American tax-payers and government apologists make military war crimes possible.

[tyr_13]

Alex Jones is objectively correct in this case. American tax-payers and government apologists make military war crimes possible.

No, war makes war crimes possible. Thought that would be obvious.

I blame physics. Without it none of us would exist. Physics makes war crimes possible.

[Alex Libman]

Technically this country hasn't been in a declared war since WW2. Government's war crimes are perpetual.

Physics is a natural philosophy. Government is an artificial construct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construct_(philosophy_of_science)).

[tyr_13]

Government is an artificial construct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construct_(philosophy_of_science)).

As are 'war crimes'. Did you have a point?

[TragicMonkey]

I was not aware supporting the troops meant total agreement with the policy in place that put them there to begin with

As far as I can tell, supporting our troops consists of saying aloud "I support our troops!". At least, that's how it seems to be used most of the time. Last week somebody at work declared "I support our troops!" and I said "Financially? Do you send them money? Logistically? Do you send them intelligence? What is the nature of your support, and how do they receive it?" It turns out she meant "moral support", which consists of feeling warm feelings about the military, from the comfort of your own home. I suspect this is the majority of the "support" the military receives, and I'm sure it provides a world of help to them.

[Skeptic]

Actually, as an old soldier, moral support DOES provide quite a bit of help. Knowing the folks back home appreciate what you do is very important to a soldier, even if they do nothing more.

But -- apart from paying taxes which, to a large degree, go to the military and thus ARE quite a bit of material support -- many people support the troops with small gifts and parcels, with letters of encouragement and hope of one's safe return.

The gift can be, objectively, an expired candy bar. But when it is sent by a six-year-old who saved to buy it out of his pocket money, it goes a long way to help morale and encourage you.

This is the big mistake with the "support our troops, bring them home now" folks. SOME of them truly care about the troops -- as the senator who voted against the Iraq war but added that IF the decision is to go to war, he will vote in favor of every bill to give the army more money to run the war, since opposition to the war is one thing and helping those who fight something else entirely. But the majority of them clearly care nothing at all for the troops, and only wanted to "bring them home now" since that would be a defeat for the USA.

As much as most soldiers would like to go home, they would rather stay and fight the terrorists any day rather than come back thanks to those who clearly consider them either evil, or, at best, stupid, for ever having joined the army.

[quixotecoyote]

But the majority of them clearly care nothing at all for the troops, and only wanted to "bring them home now" since that would be a defeat for the USA.


That and, of course, we're America-haterstm

[Thunder]

"Said differently, supporting our troops is aiding and abetting war crimes."

wow. im impressed.

what an anti-american pig.

all 140,000 American soldiers in Iraq are war criminals? wow.

[Alex Libman]

Government is an artificial construct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construct_(philosophy_of_science)).

As are 'war crimes'. Did you have a point?

The Non-Aggression Principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle), which the western governments have started to violate in the Middle East centuries before 9/11 and continue to this day. And everything else that governments do constitutes aggression as well. The hate should be directed at the government, not America as a whole. The American private sector, from Hollywood to General Electric, is respected well enough.


[...] all 140,000 American soldiers in Iraq are war criminals? wow.

You forgot the hundreds of millions who pay taxes, use government-inflatable currency, and so on.

[dirtywick]

As far as I can tell, supporting our troops consists of saying aloud "I support our troops!". At least, that's how it seems to be used most of the time. Last week somebody at work declared "I support our troops!" and I said "Financially? Do you send them money? Logistically? Do you send them intelligence? What is the nature of your support, and how do they receive it?" It turns out she meant "moral support", which consists of feeling warm feelings about the military, from the comfort of your own home. I suspect this is the majority of the "support" the military receives, and I'm sure it provides a world of help to them.

Of course that's quite a bit better than being spit on and such, like some guys got returning from Vietnam.

[TragicMonkey]

Of course that's quite a bit better than being spit on and such, like some guys got returning from Vietnam.

I've often heard it said that that happened, but I've also heard it said that there is a complete absence of evidence for that happening. Does anybody have personal (not friend of a friend, not hearing it from somebody else, not reading it in an editorial) experience of this having happened? Photos or film footage would be best.

My dad, granddad, and several uncles and greatuncles were all in that war, and none of them remember anybody actually getting spat on when returning. They heard it happened, but always to somebody unknown to the person telling them it happened.

[dirtywick]

Good question, never really thought about it to be honest. I don't have any evidence.

[TragicMonkey]

My own suspicion is that it didn't actually happen, or more than once or twice. The logistics of it are puzzling. Wouldn't most be returning on Navy ships? In my lifetime, anyway, naval bases aren't open to the public. An angry crowd of spitting protestors isn't going to be allowed to line the dock and spit on the disembarking soldiers and sailors. It's just not common to encounter large groups of uniformed military all in a bunch in the civilian world. Would this have happened at parades? But surely if the public attitude was that hostile, there wouldn't have been a parade in that location to begin with. Was it supposed to have happened to individuals? Why would they be wearing uniform if they were out of the military? And if they weren't in uniform, how would the spitter know they were military?

I find it difficult to believe, frankly. Americans tend to range between mild admiration to fullblown worship of the military. Disliking the people in the military, which contrary to anything you might hear from pundits is not the same thing as disliking the use to which the military is being put, is pretty damn rare. If someone actually spit on a soldier, they'd have to run pretty fast to get away not only from the soldier but from angry bystanders. Perhaps the whole "they got spat on!" is one of those things that sounds simply so awful that it must have been true, and naturally it would only have been done by those kind of awful people, like .

I think it's funny, and rather sad, that while the military as an institution gets glamorized and lauded, the actual individuals aren't so much. I've encountered quite a few people who speak glowing of "our boys" and their sacrifices, but hit the roof when their daughter dates a soldier, or four sailors share the apartment next door. And for all the American flags and patriotic radio commercials at car dealerships, just [i]you try buying a car on credit on a private's pay.

[GreNME]

I've often heard it said that that happened, but I've also heard it said that there is a complete absence of evidence for that happening. Does anybody have personal (not friend of a friend, not hearing it from somebody else, not reading it in an editorial) experience of this having happened? Photos or film footage would be best.

My dad, granddad, and several uncles and greatuncles were all in that war, and none of them remember anybody actually getting spat on when returning. They heard it happened, but always to somebody unknown to the person telling them it happened.

Much like the grade-school classroom exercise of standing the class side-by-side, telling the student on one end a phrase and having them pass it to the next, the stories about what happened to vets coming home from Vietnam grew more and more segregated from evidential fact and more associated with ideological and emotional feelings by the late 1970's early 1980's. The first Rambo film (sans the super-soldier ass-kicking) was a shining example of the stereotypes that were typically involved with these accounts. You're not likely to find evidence of people spitting on soldiers in film or photos, even if it were something that did happen in a few cases.

The reality is, though, that the soldiers who were returning were used by people on ideological extremes, both on the left and the right, and that did have an effect of damaging the morale of returning troops. While the anti-war activists were railing against the war and 'war crimes', the hawks were taking these guys coming back from war, propping them up and holding them to unrealistic expectations as mouthpieces of partisan bickering and political manipulation. Most of them came home to very little financial or emotional support, especially the guys who were drafted in and came out with little to no support from the Armed Forces or the private sector to help them decompress after leaving the stress of a war. The Armed Forces learned their lesson and changed some policies, while the private sector fashioned the social lesson of "never again" regarding treatment of troops coming home, resulting in movies like Rambo or the more nuanced Born on the Fourth of July, among others.

There's really not a whole lot of evidence that people were spitting on soldiers when they came home, but considering the crappy medical treatment, the ideological treatment equivalent to a child being used as a weapon between divorced/divorcing parents, and the very real fact that a lot of the guys who came home saw little to no benefit from their time in the service, in a lot of ways I tend to have the opinion that this country may as well have. I'm not in favor of the Iraq War, and I think it was a bad idea from its conception to its execution on the political front, but I find it infuriating and embarrassing how some on both the anti-war and the pro-war side of he argument have conducted themselves at the expense of the soldiers. Luckily for many soldiers, there are a great deal more support levels and organizations out there dedicated to providing moral and material support to soldiers (and their families) in spite of the politics and ideologues. It does make a difference, and hopefully the soldiers returning from the wars we're in now don't get remembered as having been treated badly by the ass-hats that are out there, and are instead welcomed back as family members, friends, and fellow citizens before anything else.

[WildCat]

As far as I can tell, supporting our troops consists of saying aloud "I support our troops!". At least, that's how it seems to be used most of the time. Last week somebody at work declared "I support our troops!" and I said "Financially? Do you send them money? Logistically? Do you send them intelligence? What is the nature of your support, and how do they receive it?" It turns out she meant "moral support", which consists of feeling warm feelings about the military, from the comfort of your own home. I suspect this is the majority of the "support" the military receives, and I'm sure it provides a world of help to them.
Well if Quad4_72 ever comes to Chicago I'll buy him a beer. :p

[foxholeatheist]

Spitting on happens. Not much anymore but funny you brought it up, a guy just coming off leave had it happen to him in Atlanta.

The first time I went home on leave I was sitting in the airport terminal in Atlanta waiting for my flight. It was crazy to see civilians again (especially the women) and hear the music and eat the food... I was simply overwhelmed. I have lived half my life overseas, it was more than just culture shock. I was just sitting by myself, looking out at the rain fall on the runway and I started to sob to myself. This middle aged woman sat next to me and hugged me the whole time. She never said a word to me.I can't tell you how much that ment to me back then.

I do have to agree with the reasons that we go to war. When it comes down to it what I care about is doing my part to make sure everyone gets to go home. There's no politics when you're getting shot at, you're just getting shot at and it needs to stop.

Quit sending us Bibles. Maybe Dawkins instead? Haha... kidding. We have piles and piles of Bibles.

[GreNME]

As far as I can tell, supporting our troops consists of saying aloud "I support our troops!". At least, that's how it seems to be used most of the time. Last week somebody at work declared "I support our troops!" and I said "Financially? Do you send them money? Logistically? Do you send them intelligence? What is the nature of your support, and how do they receive it?" It turns out she meant "moral support", which consists of feeling warm feelings about the military, from the comfort of your own home. I suspect this is the majority of the "support" the military receives, and I'm sure it provides a world of help to them.

This is actually a pet peeve of mine. I'm fine with the warm feelings and 'moral support' with words and slogans, but when I hear someone saying something like "I support the troops" I expect them to mean something more than a goofy yellow ribbon (made in China) or a t-shirt bearing a slogan. There are plenty of groups out there that one can donate actual supplies (just little luxuries) for deployed troops, food or other goods for families (spouses, children) of deployed troops, or financial and material support for troops coming home or who have been home and need assistance. Hell, even sending a 'care package' for the troops at a base where a friend, family member, coworker, or friend-of-a-friend is at least something.

Sorry, it's definitely a subject I'm somewhat vested in myself.

[Axiom_Blade]

Its all good. Our soldiers will just keep on defending his right to say whatever he wants, no matter how ridiculous it is.

Don't be silly, they aren't doing that. Lawyers and activists fight for rights; soldiers fight for kings, governments, and corporations.

[Quad4_72]

Well if Quad4_72 ever comes to Chicago I'll buy him a beer. :p

Haha. I have actually had some interesting encounters in airports while I have been in uniform. Once I got off the plane and some random guy came up to me and said that I looked hungry. He proceeded to hand me a $20 dollar bill and walked away very quickly. I tried to assure him that I was quite full actually but he was already halfway down the terminal haha. I have also went to buy food at the various restauraunts in the airport and sometimes gotten free meals. I always insist its not necessary but I think it makes people feel good so I just let it be.

But yes I will let you know. I happen to enjoy beer very much :)

[GreNME]

Don't be silly, they aren't doing that. Lawyers and activists fight for rights; soldiers fight for kings, governments, and corporations.

That's a bit extreme. While it's accurate to say that there's no threat to our right to dissent over in Iraq, the existence of a military is ostensibly to defend the nation and not just the government. Soldiers don't sign on to only protect the government in power.

ETA: Haha. I have actually had some interesting encounters in airports while I have been in uniform. Once I got off the plane and some random guy came up to me and said that I looked hungry. He proceeded to hand me a $20 dollar bill and walked away very quickly. I tried to assure him that I was quite full actually but he was already halfway down the terminal haha. I have also went to buy food at the various restauraunts in the airport and sometimes gotten free meals. I always insist its not necessary but I think it makes people feel good so I just let it be.

But yes I will let you know. I happen to enjoy beer very much :)

You got a beer or six waiting in Dallas, too. ;)

[Quad4_72]

don't be silly, they aren't doing that. Lawyers and activists fight for rights; soldiers fight for kings, governments, and corporations.

word

[Quad4_72]

This is actually a pet peeve of mine. I'm fine with the warm feelings and 'moral support' with words and slogans, but when I hear someone saying something like "I support the troops" I expect them to mean something more than a goofy yellow ribbon (made in China) or a t-shirt bearing a slogan. There are plenty of groups out there that one can donate actual supplies (just little luxuries) for deployed troops, food or other goods for families (spouses, children) of deployed troops, or financial and material support for troops coming home or who have been home and need assistance. Hell, even sending a 'care package' for the troops at a base where a friend, family member, coworker, or friend-of-a-friend is at least something.

Sorry, it's definitely a subject I'm somewhat vested in myself.

While I see where you are coming from, as it was said earlier it does a lot for the soldiers morale to see yellow ribbons everywhere when they come home. Morale is one of the most important things for a soldier to keep in check while he is deployed. But yes it is also nice when people do more than just say "I support the troops"

[Quad4_72]

ETA:

You got a beer or six waiting in Dallas, too. ;)

NICE. I happen to be born about 40 min away from there (Fortworth).

[JimBenArm]

I've often heard it said that that happened, but I've also heard it said that there is a complete absence of evidence for that happening. Does anybody have personal (not friend of a friend, not hearing it from somebody else, not reading it in an editorial) experience of this having happened? Photos or film footage would be best.

My dad, granddad, and several uncles and greatuncles were all in that war, and none of them remember anybody actually getting spat on when returning. They heard it happened, but always to somebody unknown to the person telling them it happened.
Caveat: I didn't serve in Viet Nam, but did serve during the time immediately after.
I did get some disparaging treatment one time, in the San Francisco airport, returning to San Diego from Guam. I wasn't spat upon, but was called some imaginative names by a hippie type. Was more amusing than upsetting, as she was obviously chemically enhanced at the time.

[Quad4_72]

Caveat: I didn't serve in Viet Nam, but did serve during the time immediately after.
I did get some disparaging treatment one time, in the San Francisco airport, returning to San Diego from Guam. I wasn't spat upon, but was called some imaginative names by a hippie type. Was more amusing than upsetting, as she was obviously chemically enhanced at the time.

Lol. But of course as a good soldier you just ignored her and kept walking :) As a cadet I was walking on campus once and some hippie came up to me and said "You should be ashamed of yourself for wearing that uniform." I just kinda laughed and kept on walking. Some of the ignorance in this country is crazy. These college kids that have never had to fight for anything in their lives say whatever the hell they want because of what others have died for. Its nuts.

[GreNME]

While I see where you are coming from, as it was said earlier it does a lot for the soldiers morale to see yellow ribbons everywhere when they come home. Morale is one of the most important things for a soldier to keep in check while he is deployed. But yes it is also nice when people do more than just say "I support the troops"

I know what you mean. It's just a pet peeve of mine, and I admit fully it's due to my personal investment in the subject.

NICE. I happen to be born about 40 min away from there (Fortworth).

Well, I promise to not hold that against you when buying you a beer. ;)

(actually, I think Ft. Worth is way more beautiful than Dallas. I'm just an East-Coaster carpetbagging.)

[JimBenArm]

Lol. But of course as a good soldier you just ignored her and kept walking :) As a cadet I was walking on campus once and some hippie came up to me and said "You should be ashamed of yourself for wearing that uniform." I just kinda laughed and kept on walking. Some of the ignorance in this country is crazy. These college kids that have never had to fight for anything in their lives say whatever the hell they want because of what others have died for. Its nuts.
Well, I was travelling with a LCDR and he did all the talking for the both of us. I was too busy trying not to laugh at her.

I wish I could remember exactly what it was she said, but we'd been travelling for quite a few hours without sleep (including 14 hours waiting in Guam to get a seat on a plane), so I was pretty bleary-eyed.

[Quad4_72]

Well, I was travelling with a LCDR and he did all the talking for the both of us. I was too busy trying not to laugh at her.

I wish I could remember exactly what it was she said, but we'd been travelling for quite a few hours without sleep (including 14 hours waiting in Guam to get a seat on a plane), so I was pretty bleary-eyed.

Not to mention that was probably over 30 years ago too huh? haha

[FM21.105]

On the topic of people spitting/yelling/arguing with soldiers, you clearly have never been in uniform and in the Portland area.

I went to see my girlfriend while on leave, and I was in ACUs (Just got off the plane, commander orders those on intercontinental flights to be in uniform) and she lives in Portland. I must say, she must be the ONLY female in Portland who has any respect for soldiers. Although she is also the typical Portlander, ska loving, almost hipster female, she was the only one who didn't yell obsenities, or ask how baby killing was (Didn't get spit on, so thats good). I'm a very composed and calm individual, however, and nothing makes people more mad then when they are trying to make you mad, and you show no signs of anger. I'm used to this, as I've lived in the Bible belt and many times have had run-ins with christians who hate me due to atheism. Same goes with me crashing psychic conventions (Although those people seem to be a bit nicer).

[Quad4_72]

On the topic of people spitting/yelling/arguing with soldiers, you clearly have never been in uniform and in the Portland area.

I went to see my girlfriend while on leave, and I was in ACUs (Just got off the plane, commander orders those on intercontinental flights to be in uniform) and she lives in Portland. I must say, she must be the ONLY female in Portland who has any respect for soldiers. Although she is also the typical Portlander, ska loving, almost hipster female, she was the only one who didn't yell obsenities, or ask how baby killing was (Didn't get spit on, so thats good). I'm a very composed and calm individual, however, and nothing makes people more mad then when they are trying to make you mad, and you show no signs of anger. I'm used to this, as I've lived in the Bible belt and many times have had run-ins with christians who hate me due to atheism. Same goes with me crashing psychic conventions (Although those people seem to be a bit nicer).

I lived in Portland for 12 years. That place is like hippie haven. I must say I have never witnessed that kind of behavior, but it doesn't surprise me either.

[FM21.105]

When was the most recent you've been there?

[slingblade]

So first we were traitors if we thought the war was a mistake.
Now we're war criminals because the war happened anyway.


Tell me, again, about adult maturity? Because so far, all I've ever seen are the same kids who used to taunt each other on the playground. Only now, they're taller, and wear suits.

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Portland, Pffft!

What have they ever done for this country?

Is that even a city, because if it is that's a stupid name for a city!

Port-land, ooooooh ah, "look at me everyone I'm a city with a lot of ports! So many in fact, that it justifies the word "port" taking up the first half of my name!" Pssttt Pffft, big whoop!:D

[Quad4_72]

When was the most recent you've been there?

Probably like 5 or 6 years ago.

[FM21.105]

What do you know, thats my exact views on Portland as well :D

As for Jones, I don't think he clearly understands what Aiding and Abetting means. If civilians are aiding and abetting by paying taxes, then they are aiding and abetting by following the law. What about soldiers like myself who aren't in Iraq? Is supporting me still aiding and abetting, although I do not serve in a combat related MOS? Are they aiding and abetting by simply stating "I support the troops," then does that void their right to voice and opinion simply because of their preference to a certain group of people? Are neo-nazi's in America aiding and abetting the holocaust (Yeah, I know this isn't the same thing, but it's not out of the realm).

On the converse, are those who do not help put an end to genocide in Africa, are they aiding and abetting the genocide? By Alex Jones reasoning, is he committing Treason by not doing anything to stop such crimes?


But I'm just preaching to the choir here. We all know his reasoning is full of fallacies and nonsense. Just feel like voicing my 2 cents,

[foxholeatheist]

My apartment complex just outside of Fort Hood has a huge yellow banner that states: "WE SUPPORT OUR TROOPS"...

My truck was towed a few days ago by my apartment complex. I guess the inspection sticker was out of date, I didn't really check before deploying so they had it towed. It's costing me 20$ a day to have it at the impound lot on top of a 300$ fine. I called the manager and he said there's nothing I can do. So now I went to go get a power of attorney for a buddy's wife so SHE can go get my pick up truck. Huge pain in the ass.

And it's still in the impound lot. It's gotta be over 500$ by now.

Supporting the troops my ass... The majority is lip service.

I personally have never gotten any flak for being in the military aside from predatory lenders and car dealers outside the posts.

[Toke]

The Abu Grai was a PR disaster, no question there.
The logic jump to all soldiers being war criminals is too long for me.

"Supporting the troops" is pretty vauge.
I imagine something like what the seamans clubs/church in Felixstove England do for merchant ships. For chrismas we got a bag of gifts onboard, they contained knitted gloves, hoods, a comb, candy, and a letter saying happy chrismas. It gave a nice warm fealing inside.

[TraneWreck]

My apartment complex just outside of Fort Hood has a huge yellow banner that states: "WE SUPPORT OUR TROOPS"...

My truck was towed a few days ago by my apartment complex. I guess the inspection sticker was out of date, I didn't really check before deploying so they had it towed. It's costing me 20$ a day to have it at the impound lot on top of a 300$ fine. I called the manager and he said there's nothing I can do. So now I went to go get a power of attorney for a buddy's wife so SHE can go get my pick up truck. Huge pain in the ass.

And it's still in the impound lot. It's gotta be over 500$ by now.

Supporting the troops my ass... The majority is lip service.

I personally have never gotten any flak for being in the military aside from predatory lenders and car dealers outside the posts.

And let me say that I hope above anything else that you get back in good enough health that you can avoid dealing with the most embarassing lack of troop support, the post-combat care.

[FM21.105]

Foxholeatheist, yeah generally we don't get any love right outside military instillations. It was the same for me at Ft Rucker and Ft Knox. There are too many GI's there to the point where it's just normal for anyone to really think of GI's as being, well, soldiers. They're just civilians at that point.

I'm not saying we need special treatment, I'm saying that the average civilian in America usually loves soldiers, while those who are around them all the time think no differently.

[JimBenArm]

The ones that do that are just predators. If there weren't servicemen in the area, they'd target the elderly or some other easy pickings.

Nothing personal about it. They're just regular scum.

[GreNME]

The ones that do that are just predators. If there weren't servicemen in the area, they'd target the elderly or some other easy pickings.

Nothing personal about it. They're just regular scum.

Yup, I agree with this.

[TragicMonkey]

On the topic of people spitting/yelling/arguing with soldiers, you clearly have never been in uniform and in the Portland area.

No. But being a Navy brat, I've mostly lived places with a strong military presence, except for when I went to college. I might just be used to living in places with pro-military sentiment. (Although it's conflicted, of course. Most cities love love love the money that military bases bring in, but they object to the noise of jets and throw a fit when a murderer or drunk driver turns out to be some low-ranking military guy from somewhere else.)

One notable exception was when my dad was stationed at something in Philadelphia and we lived across the river in a suburb in New Jersey. We were the only military family there, and the neighbors didn't know a thing about the lifestyle. Most of them had never moved at all except across town, and their kids were warned that our house must be stuffed to the roof with guns because the military, they assumed, had to take its work home with them. That Navy Supply rarely involves keeping loaded bazookas at your house didn't signify. It wasn't hostility so much as ignorance.

The opposite occurred when we lived in Mississippi. The neighbors regarded my mom with suspicion because she was "a Northerner" (she's from South Carolina) until they discovered dad was in the military. Then they couldn't have been nicer.

[Quad4_72]

The ones that do that are just predators. If there weren't servicemen in the area, they'd target the elderly or some other easy pickings.

Nothing personal about it. They're just regular scum.

Very true. These people are looking for money, and they don't care how they get it. Even places like Commandos and Ranger Joes, military stores outside of base with just about everything you need, jack their prices up ridiculously high. I remember I needed to buy a PT vest once. The one at Commandos was 17 dollars then the one on base was like 6 dollars. Most of their products were that way. Just ridiculous.