Man Wins Father of the Year Award

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Well, that's not the title, but it should be:

LONDON (Reuters) - A man who tried to hire a prostitute to take his 14-year-old son's virginity as a present was spared jail by a court on Friday.
The Polish national took the boy out in his car and allowed him to pick out the prostitute, who was standing at the side of the road in the red-light district of Nottingham.
But the 42-year-old father was arrested because the teenager had chosen an undercover police officer, Nottingham Crown Court heard.


Linky. (http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idINTRE54E4CT20090515)

[Jeff Corey]

"Judge Jonathan Teare said he would spare the father jail because of his excellent character and that he believed he did not mean any harm to his son."
That pretty much says it all.

[Skeptic]

What bothers me about this is the idea that the man considered the fact that his 14-year-old son is still a virgin to be a problem requiring his intervention.

[BPSCG]

What bothers me about this is the idea that the man considered the fact that his 14-year-old son is still a virgin to be a problem requiring his intervention.What bothers me about it is that my father obviously never loved me. All he ever did was feed me and clothe me and nurture me and help me with algebra and teach me right from wrong.

[LibraryLady]

How many jokes would there be if this were a 14 year old girl, whose father hired someone to take her virginity?

[Donal]

What bothers me about this is the idea that the man considered the fact that his 14-year-old son is still a virgin to be a problem requiring his intervention.

I don't know how it is in Poland, but I've had friends from South American countries tell me this is how it is down there. It is not so much the father is horrified that his son is a virgin. It is more about getting it out of the way so the kid isn't freaked out by sex. And since, unlike learning to drive, the father can't be next to him to give instructions, might as well have a professional to help the boy out.

I'm not saying I think it is a good idea, just that this is reasoning behind it.

[Puppycow]

How many jokes would there be if this were a 14 year old girl, whose father hired someone to take her virginity?

Yes, there is a double standard, and always has been, but that seems to be to be a byproduct of a fact of nature: men cannot become pregnant. Therefore, the potential for harm to the boy seems to less than it would be for a girl of the same age.

[quixotecoyote]

Yes, there is a double standard, and always has been, but that seems to be to be a byproduct of a fact of nature: men cannot become pregnant. Therefore, the potential for harm to the boy seems to less than it would be for a girl of the same age.

And that leads to a social atmosphere where we have to pretend that high school boys are every bit as victimized in relationships with their teachers as girls are with theirs.

Abuse of power in either case, but the fact remains that we have to at least wink at each other and prented its all the same.

[Alex Libman]

I have to argue for parents' rights here. You want to apply your subjective opinions on how to raise children - raise your own.

And there's nothing wrong with paying for sex. It's just basic economics. Guys are naturally hornier than girls, so all heterosexual relationships involve guys paying something in return, whether it's dinner and a movie, emotional commitment, time wasted pretending to be something you're not, or plastic surgery / time at the gym to be able to attract the girl that doesn't expect you to pay nor listen. IMHO - cash is a better deal.


How many jokes would there be if this were a 14 year old girl, whose father hired someone to take her virginity?

None from me, except to point out that this venture would involve capital flowing the other way. Once again, supply and demand. And, once again, parents' rights.

[Safe-Keeper]

I have to argue for parents' rights here. You want to apply your subjective opinions on how to raise children - raise your own.You could say that, except I can apply that reasoning to pretty much everything, as anything can have the "none of your business" label stuck on it.

And there's nothing wrong with paying for sex. It's just basic economics.You've never talked to a prostitute, I see. The life as a hooker is one full of physical and sexual abuse, exploitation, stigmatization and hopelessness. You may as well say there's nothing wrong with buying coal from Chinese mines in which thousands die every year.

Guys are naturally hornier than girls, so all heterosexual relationships involve guys paying something in return, whether it's dinner and a movie, emotional commitment, time wasted pretending to be something you're not, or plastic surgery / time at the gym to be able to attract the girl that doesn't expect you to pay nor listen. IMHO - cash is a better deal.Appeal to nature?

How many jokes would there be if this were a 14 year old girl, whose father hired someone to take her virginity? I'm certainly not saying it's not sick. A 14-year old is a kid.

[GreNME]

How many jokes would there be if this were a 14 year old girl, whose father hired someone to take her virginity?

Probably none. If the father were hiring a female prostitute for his hypothetical daughter, there might have even been some cheering. This social phenomenon fits into the Teacher-Student Sex Matrix, which is really less about teachers and students and more about the double-standard out there.

http://image.grenme.com/thread/TeacherSexMatrix.jpg

[Alex Libman]

You could say that, except I can apply that reasoning to pretty much everything, as anything can have the "none of your business" label stuck on it.

There is a rational reason why the "right to life" applies at the point of physical autonomy (i.e. birth), but the rights to liberty and property must be deferred until an age of maturity is reached. There is also an Anarcho-Capitalist concept called "right to emancipation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_of_minors)". So parents cannot kill their children, and they cannot interfere with their right to expose them and/or leave them, now or in the future. Everything else is a parents' right.

Don't like it? You're free to ostracize parents you disagree with, but spreading your subjective values through violence is irrational and immoral.


You've never talked to a prostitute, I see. [...]

Um, yes I have. Virtually all of the problems relating to prostitution come from the government prohibition.


Appeal to nature?

That term has been hijacked to mean an appeal to primitivism, which isn't accurate. What I've exhibited is an appeal to reason.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

How many jokes would there be if this were a 14 year old girl, whose father hired someone to take her virginity?

Yawn.

Probably none. If the father were hiring a female prostitute for his hypothetical daughter, there might have even been some cheering. This social phenomenon fits into the Teacher-Student Sex Matrix, which is really less about teachers and students and more about the double-standard out there.

:D

You've never talked to a prostitute, I see. The life as a hooker is one full of physical and sexual abuse, exploitation, stigmatization and hopelessness. You may as well say there's nothing wrong with buying coal from Chinese mines in which thousands die every year.

Odd, from that I take it you haven't talked to many.

There is a rational reason why the "right to life" applies at the point of physical autonomy (i.e. birth), but the rights to liberty and property must be deferred until an age of maturity is reached. There is also an Anarcho-Capitalist concept called "right to emancipation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_of_minors)". So parents cannot kill their children, and they cannot interfere with their right to expose them and/or leave them, now or in the future. Everything else is a parents' right.

Don't like it? You're free to ostracize parents you disagree with, but spreading your subjective values through violence is irrational and immoral.

Jesus, enough with the ideological spamming.

[Alex Libman]

Jesus, enough with the ideological spamming.

Great, yet another case of "me confronted with rational argument that proves me wrong, me not want to adjust thinking to reality, me angry, me try to get the mods to silence bad bad heretic". :nope:

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Great, yet another case of "me confronted with rational argument that proves me wrong, me not want to adjust thinking to reality, me angry, me try to get the mods to silence bad bad heretic". :nope:

... Uh huh.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I don't know how it is in Poland, but I've had friends from South American countries tell me this is how it is down there. It is not so much the father is horrified that his son is a virgin. It is more about getting it out of the way so the kid isn't freaked out by sex. And since, unlike learning to drive, the father can't be next to him to give instructions, might as well have a professional to help the boy out.

I'm not saying I think it is a good idea, just that this is reasoning behind it.

I'm quite familiar with Poland since my parents are both from there. Even though hooking is actually quasi-legal there, or so I learn from the Internet, this kind of thing would be regarded as beyond scandalous. It is generally not acceptable to even talk about sex with your parents, let alone...that. No, most parents there would probably be horrified and ashamed if their 14-year-old son was having sex, not the reverse.

Of course, every family is different.

When I was 14, I too used to weep that I'd die a virgin and an old maid. I was very shy and awkward around boys, a pretty big dork, was probably hampered by being "a good girl" and didn't have my first date or kiss until I was almost 16. If anyone had hired a boy to have sex with me, though, it would have been beyond creepy and weird and wouldn't have solved anything.

[kerikiwi]

Guys are naturally hornier than girls, so all heterosexual relationships involve guys paying something in return.

The premise is unsupported by reality. The conclusion is false.

[billydkid]

What bothers me about this is the idea that the man considered the fact that his 14-year-old son is still a virgin to be a problem requiring his intervention.
What bothers me is I never had a father which means I never had a father to take me to a prostitute. If I remember correctly, I would have sold my left nugget at 14 to have had the chance to have sex with a real live girl.

[quarky]

What bothers me about the story is that the prostitute was a cop.

Entrapment feels wrongish.

[WildCat]

Here's a tip for the dad for next time: actual street walkers walk the street. Undercover police posing as streetwalkers stay in one place, because they have to be in sight of backup at all times.

[Alex Libman]

The premise is unsupported by reality. The conclusion is false.

Do you dispute that men want to have sex more often (http://psr.sagepub.com/cgi/content/short/5/3/242) on average, or do you deny the natural economic consequences of that (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/magazine/11wwln_freak.html?_r=1)? (Links are meant for clicking.)


Entrapment feels wrongish.

All prosecution of "victimless crimes" is plain wrong (no -ish)!

[quarky]

On the other hand, one of my top 5 sex-fantasies is to make it with a cop pretending to be a prostitute. It rates slightly higher than the old librarian fantasy.

(Like, when they remove their dorky glasses and let down their awesome hair, in the basement stacks, helping you to find an obscure text.)

Hubbah

[gumboot]

What bothers me about the story is that the prostitute was a cop.

Entrapment feels wrongish.


It's only entrapment if the police officer invited them to engage in a... um... business transaction. She was essentially a police officer, hanging about on the street minding her own business when this guy came up and offered her money for sex (which is apparently illegal).

[fuelair]

I have to argue for parents' rights here. You want to apply your subjective opinions on how to raise children - raise your own.

And there's nothing wrong with paying for sex. It's just basic economics. Guys are naturally hornier than girls, so all heterosexual relationships involve guys paying something in return,



.Having taught for a number of years in high school and having heard the conversations of literally hundreds of students from 12 to 18 - conversations while they are working in groups, next the rest room, in class etc. I guarantee that 80+ per cent of the boys talk about sports, games, street cred items (guns, etc.). I also guarantee that over 80% of what the girls talk about is sex - in specifics mostly. They are among other things under the impression that male teachers fear the intricacies of the female body and try to use "period" to pass over school policies. The majority of mine have learned that popping a tampon down in front of me to "prove" they have to go to the restroom has all the shock value of popping the text down to ask a question. (One tried, in class, out loud "so I guess I'll just drop my pants back here and bleed on the floor". Her father was not impressed when I contacted him - and she is one of the nicer girls in the class.)* My 10th graders are even more likely to do so with who where and what they did.




*To save time and worry: no, I was not stopping her from going to the rest room -the school has a policy (intelligent) that students may not be kept from going to the restroom (period) but they must have a pass to do so (if you do not know why, you do not live in the US or are very new here). Passes must be written in the Planner they are given at the beginning of the year, It must be their planner with their name in it. IF they do not have a planner the teacher is to give them the planner the teacher gets for this purpose so they can go AND the teacher is required to write a discipline referral for the student for not having their planner. This is well known to the students. This girl did not want a referall so she tried to claim she was not being allowed to go. She finally accepted but called her father while out (also a violation of school policy - having the cell phone in use in the building) and.......) If any of this troubles you, I suggest you call your local school board and check the policies there - if they are not extremely similar they are setting themselves up for a lawsuit.. If you don't understand why after that, ask.:)

[fuelair]

. You may as well say there's nothing wrong with buying coal from Chinese mines in which thousands die every year.

. There isn't if your people would die without it. But it;s ok to feel bad about doing it.

[gumboot]

On the other hand, one of my top 5 sex-fantasies is to make it with a cop pretending to be a prostitute. It rates slightly higher than the old librarian fantasy.


Personally I prefer the young librarian with the white shirt that's one size too small and those glasses. Reow.

[quarky]

As an ex-criminal, I have an innate distrust of cops. Yet, i must assume, any cops doing the fake hooker show have some basic hotness. I would be their love slave, if they promised not to bust me.

[Morrigan]

What bothers me about the story is that the prostitute was a cop.

Entrapment feels wrongish.

It's not entrapment unless the cop is the one soliciting the deal.

Here's a tip for the dad for next time: actual street walkers walk the street. Undercover police posing as streetwalkers stay in one place, because they have to be in sight of backup at all times.

You know better now, huh? ;)

[applecorped]

Here's a tip for the dad for next time: actual street walkers walk the street. Undercover police posing as streetwalkers stay in one place, because they have to be in sight of backup at all times.

Any other tips? (cough!, wink!)

[Alex Libman]

[...] I guarantee that 80+ per cent of the boys talk about sports, games, street cred items (guns, etc.). I also guarantee that over 80% of what the girls talk about is sex - in specifics mostly. [...]

I was talking about supply and demand. Just talking about drilling for oil will not make the prices at the pump go down. (At least not for the long-term.)

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Isn't the kid embarrassed about his father (or anyone else) having to procure a woman for him?

You'd think nothing would cramp your style before a woman, hooker or not, like having Dad tag along.

[Lonewulf]

Great, yet another case of "me confronted with rational argument that proves me wrong, me not want to adjust thinking to reality, me angry, me try to get the mods to silence bad bad heretic". :nope:

That, or people get tired of arguing over, essentially, the same thing over and over and over and over...

You're as big as proselytizer as Kurious Kathy. Just that you're selling something else.

[Alex Libman]

That, or people get tired of arguing over, essentially, the same thing over and over and over and over...

And yet they still fail to make any rational points against me...


You're as big as proselytizer as Kurious Kathy. Just that you're selling something else.

Or maybe I'm just a well-rounded skeptic without a cognitive blind-spot for government-based delusions... In absence of critical thinking skills, one would never know...

[Lonewulf]

And yet they still fail to make any rational points against me...An emperor in your own mind.

Or maybe I'm just a well-rounded skeptic

Or maybe not. ;)

[DC]

How many jokes would there be if this were a 14 year old girl, whose father hired someone to take her virginity?

ouch, good point

[Ian Osborne]

What bothers me about this is the idea that the man considered the fact that his 14-year-old son is still a virgin to be a problem requiring his intervention.

I'm surprised this passed without comment. The situation with kids having underaged sex is bad enough as it is, without parents facilitating it. :(

[Skeptic]

And there's nothing wrong with paying for sex. It's just basic economics.

Well, that's good to know.

What's the going rate for your wife? I'm a bit horny right now, and...

... I'm sure you wouldn't mind her working as a prostitute on the side.

It's basic economics.

[Skeptic]

You know, I can see a man arranging his 24-year-old virgin and shy son a visit with a prostitute. I wouldn't approve, but it would be understandable. But a 14-year-old?!

[AgeGap]

Any other tips? (cough!, wink!)

Know that all sex outside marriage is wrong. There are people on the board who would say, "Tell them you want a model for nude photographs, cop would not agree, if the lady agrees then change terms of deal". This is against God's will and is the fast route to Hell. (cough!)

[Polaris]

You've never talked to a prostitute, I see. The life as a hooker is one full of physical and sexual abuse, exploitation, stigmatization and hopelessness. You may as well say there's nothing wrong with buying coal from Chinese mines in which thousands die every year.


This is not a danger inherant to prostitution. It's a danger due to prostitution's illegality and, therefore, complete lack of regulation.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

This is not a danger inherant to prostitution. It's a danger due to prostitution's illegality and, therefore, complete lack of regulation.

Even when prostitution is legal, trafficking, addiction, exploitation, abuse, disease and rape occur. Maybe at much lower rates than they would if it were illegal but they do happen.

Prostitutes are targets for dangerous men (and sometimes dangerous women.) This is inherent in prostitution- this why Dutch brothels have panic buttons in all the rooms.

Same story with alcohol prohibition- alcohol causes a whole lot of damage when it's legal. Making it illegal makes it about ten times worse, yeah, but you can't deny it is dangerous in and of itself. Making it legal is choosing the lesser of two evils.

[Damien Evans]

You could say that, except I can apply that reasoning to pretty much everything, as anything can have the "none of your business" label stuck on it.

You've never talked to a prostitute, I see. The life as a hooker is one full of physical and sexual abuse, exploitation, stigmatization and hopelessness. You may as well say there's nothing wrong with buying coal from Chinese mines in which thousands die every year.

Appeal to nature?

I'm certainly not saying it's not sick. A 14-year old is a kid.

Well, that depends on where you are as well.

Down here it's nothing like that, at least not in the legal establishments (the illegal ones are an entirely different story). In fact, many of the prostitutes down here are Uni students paying their way through school (and from what I hear earning a nice quid too).

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

About that- isn't it possible the prostitutes are just routinely claiming they are students paying their way through college? The way strippers always are?

I mean, that's such a cliche. Everyone knows it's a lie when strippers say it.

[Damien Evans]

About that- isn't it possible the prostitutes are just routinely claiming they are students paying their way through college? The way strippers always are?

I mean, that's such a cliche. Everyone knows it's a lie when strippers say it.

Undoubtedly many are lying about it, but I met enough at uni to know that many are also telling the truth (either that or they hang around uni for no reason).

[Lonewulf]

About that- isn't it possible the prostitutes are just routinely claiming they are students paying their way through college? The way strippers always are?

I mean, that's such a cliche. Everyone knows it's a lie when strippers say it.

Really? I've known an actual college student that paid her way through college through stripping. How did I know she wasn't lying? I was attending at the same campus as she was.

The reason it's a "cliche" is because it's probably rather common. The younger you are, the better a stripper you generally tend to make, so naturally younger people are going to be in that profession. The best reason to take the profession is because it pays better than most of the other options. So I don't see why it wouldn't be a common reason.

[oldhat]

"Happy birthday, kid, I got you some herpes."

[applecorped]

This is against God's will and is the fast route to Hell. (cough!)

Which God?

[Darth Rotor]

Uh, dad gets kid laid. He's 14, old enough to appreciate it. Not the most brilliant judgment of all time, but hardly something to lose sleep over.

The hooker cop actually is funny as hell.

Dad is gonna have to live with that at family reunions for all time.

Methinks the judge had a laugh fest in chambers after this was all over.

DR

[Skeptic]

The best reason to take the profession is because it pays better than most of the other options.

Yes, indeed. All you have to give up is your self-worth, self-respect, morals...

[tomwaits]

You must choose.

Choose wisely.




But the 42-year-old father was arrested because the teenager had chosen an undercover police officer, Nottingham Crown Court heard.




You did not choose wisely.


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/214124a1418388267a.jpg

[integral]

What bothers me about this is the idea that the man considered the fact that his 14-year-old son is still a virgin to be a problem requiring his intervention.

This.

[Damien Evans]

Yes, indeed. All you have to give up is your self-worth, self-respect, morals...

Evidence?

[Lonewulf]

Yes, indeed. All you have to give up is your self-worth, self-respect, morals...

Self-worth? Not really. The girl I talked to about it seemed just fine with being an exotic dancer, and was studying law (I think it was law), and seemed quite confident and happy with the direction she was taking. So that's one thing you're wrong on.

Self-respect? Again, she seemed just find with herself. Again, no problem.

Morals? Sure, if you're a religious freak that thinks that the human body should be hidden at all times. I can understand how you think that, perhaps, but not everyone shares the same morals as you do.

You'd have to show there to be a problem with exotic dancing in the first place to demonstrate that one is giving something up to do it. Unless you're a religious freak saying how the Lord doesn't want you to show your skin, though, you really can't.

[GStan]

Self-worth? Not really. The girl I talked to about it seemed just fine with being an exotic dancer, and was studying law (I think it was law), and seemed quite confident and happy with the direction she was taking. So that's one thing you're wrong on.

Self-respect? Again, she seemed just find with herself. Again, no problem.

Morals? Sure, if you're a religious freak that thinks that the human body should be hidden at all times. I can understand how you think that, perhaps, but not everyone shares the same morals as you do.

You'd have to show there to be a problem with exotic dancing in the first place to demonstrate that one is giving something up to do it. Unless you're a religious freak saying how the Lord doesn't want you to show your skin, though, you really can't.

I don't find myself agreeing with Lonewulf often, but seconded^.

[Lonewulf]

I don't find myself agreeing with Lonewulf often [...].

I don't recall seeing an of your own posts, so I can't really say "likewise". o.O

[GStan]

I don't recall seeing an of your own posts, so I can't really say "likewise". o.O

;), I do far more reading than posting.

[AgeGap]

Which God?
One of the miserable ones.