Right wing crackpots in Canada too!

[KelvinG]

Just so you Americans don't start to think that you are the only country in the world with some seriously psychotic right-wing politicians.

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/story.asp?id=90BEBC28-C500-48E1-A9EC-4A6DA83450B5

The Saskatchewan MP was punished for telling a newspaper reporter that gay sex should once again be illegal under the Criminal Code as it was before 1969.

He also claimed that gays have engaged in a long conspiracy to seduce young people on playgrounds and in locker rooms over recent decades to convert them to their lifestyle.



And this statement is coming from a political party that holds some very serious clout in the western part of Canada and is currently attempting to form a single party with the Progressive Conservatives.
Granted, the leader of the Alliance condemned the above noted MP (and fired him), but this is certainly not the first instance within the party of gay bashing.
The Alliance party is generally viewed as intolerant, prejudice, and racist. Are these fair assesments? Perhaps not. Maybe it's just a few bad apples that make the party look bad. But, they might want to start putting shorter leashes on nutbars like Larry Spencer if they want to gain credibility in the rest of Canada.

[BTox]

Do you have left-wing crackpots, too? They are really the problem here...

[KelvinG]

Originally posted by BTox
Do you have left-wing crackpots, too? They are really the problem here...

No, all our left wingers here are very reasonable and well mannered.;)

But yes, of course we have our left wing crackpots as well. Some might even say they are running the country.
However, I've always been a little more left than right. (by American standards a lot more left than right) so perhaps I'm bias.
But regardless, I'm not a fan of extremism in any form.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by KelvinG
The Alliance party is generally viewed as intolerant, prejudice, and racist. Are these fair assesments? Perhaps not. Maybe it's just a few bad apples that make the party look bad.

I really don't think it is a fair assesment to say they are intolerant, racist, etc. True, there are occasional "flakes" who do get a lot of media attention. But consider the following:

- Flakes exist in other political parties. I remember one black Liberal senator once saying that she had been called racist names by people within the Liberal caucus. Or remember the wild claim made by a Liberal cabinet minister that 'crosses were being burned' in towns in BC

- At one point (it still might be true), the Alliance party had the largest proportion of minority MPs in the house of commons (maybe they're racist against themselves). For example, right now, of 43 members of the house of commons born outside of Canada, 12 were first voted in as Reform or Alliance (approximately 28%), yet the Alliance makes up only 20% of the house of commons. See: http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/people/house/mpsbo.asp?lang=E&Hist=N

- I believe that there is a general bias against the right wing in the Canadian media. Consider that: The CBC is government run and heavily unionized, the Southam newspaper chain and Canwest/Global is owned by the Aspers (friends of Cretien), and the biggest daily newspaper (the Star) is very left-leaning.

So, you have a case where people seem to look for any reason to find a reason to dislike the Alliance, even if people probably would agree with many of their policies. The nut-cases in the Alliance are put in the spotlight, while similar actions from other parties are glossed over. All in all, its not a good environment for discussing real issues.

[KelvinG]

Yes, Seg, which is why I said:

Are these fair assesments? Perhaps not. Maybe it's just a few bad apples that make the party look bad.

You said:

Or remember the wild claim made by a Liberal cabinet minister that 'crosses were being burned' in towns in BC

Yes, that was Hedy Fry, the MP here in Vancouver where I live. I voted for her last election, but incidents like the above make me very hesitant about voting for her again.

[sorgoth]

In my humble opinion, the Liberals (And Chretien) have done a very good job. Increased social freedoms, made a lot of scholarship/charity funds AND lowered the national debt.

[Tony]

Originally posted by sorgoth
In my humble opinion, the Liberals (And Chretien) have done a very good job. Increased social freedoms, made a lot of scholarship/charity funds AND lowered the national debt.

What does "social freedom" mean?

[American]

Go to any large university men's room-- you'll see holes drilled in the stalls, all kinds of gay sex propositions scrawled, mixed with leftist political ranting.

You think we're supposed to put up with that and not judge the people who do it? Or the sex offenders repeatedly arrested at highway rest stops?

Cram your politically correct tolerance BS up your ass. Look at who it is you stick up for- it's not ordinary gay people, it's the perverts who give them the bad name they should expect when they act vile.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by American
Go to any large university men's room-- you'll see holes drilled in the stalls, all kinds of gay sex propositions scrawled, mixed with leftist political ranting.

You think we're supposed to put up with that and not judge the people who do it? Or the sex offenders repeatedly arrested at highway rest stops?

Cram your politically correct tolerance BS up your ass. Look at who it is you stick up for- it's not ordinary gay people, it's the perverts who give them the bad name they should expect when they act vile.
If Homosexual perverts give homosexuals a bad name do hetrosexual perverts give hetrosexuals a bad name? Anyway, I take your point....I will make an effort to make my toilet scrawlings more politically neutral.

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by American


Cram your politically correct tolerance BS up your ass. Look at who it is you stick up for- it's not ordinary gay people, it's the perverts who give them the bad name they should expect when they act vile.

Isn't this sort of cramming supposed to be what you are against?

Get some consistancy man!!! You rail against perversion while advocating anal insertion of political ideals. That is just weird.

[Otther]

If Homosexual perverts give homosexuals a bad name do hetrosexual perverts give hetrosexuals a bad name? Fool... it is considerably easier for a small group of people to misrepresent 2% of the population compared to misrepresenting 90(+)% of the population.

All the same, does anyone else know how American got the idea that homosexuals have a bad name? The only soured reputations that come to mind when one thinks of homosexuality are the reputations of outgoing homophobics.

[Tesserat]

Originally posted by KelvinG

Yes, that was Hedy Fry, the MP here in Vancouver where I live. I voted for her last election, but incidents like the above make me very hesitant about voting for her again.

You voted for Hedy Fry???

Well, I shouldn't talk. I voted for Sven Robinson when I used to live in Burnaby. Now, I admire the man for taking strong stands, but sometimes the stands he takes makes him seem like a bit of a nutcase.

Larry Spencer was just too off the wall for anyone to take seriously.

He also said people who have been practising homosexuals for most of their adult lives could transform themselves into heterosexuals.



I read where Spencer said that a homosexual becoming a heterosexual was like weightlifting; It's hard at first, but then you get used to it.

A couple of my friends said that some of their experiences could be described that way...

[American]

Originally posted by The Fool

I will make an effort to make my toilet scrawlings more politically neutral.

:cool:

awsome.

[Badger]

Originally posted by sorgoth
In my humble opinion, the Liberals (And Chretien) have done a very good job. Increased social freedoms, made a lot of scholarship/charity funds AND lowered the national debt.

They could have done ever so much more.

And in addition, they could have followed up on some of their election promises (the liberal "Red Book" that they touted in their 1991 campaign.....one of the glaring unfulfilled promises is eradication of the GST).

And I'm sure the country could have done with a little less waste, and more fiscal responsibility (HDRC fiasco, Gun registry, etc.)

The ethics displayed by the government are laughable as well.

In my humble opinion, more harm than good has been accomplished by them.

[KelvinG]

Originally posted by Tesserat


You voted for Hedy Fry???

Well, I shouldn't talk. I voted for Sven Robinson when I used to live in Burnaby. Now, I admire the man for taking strong stands, but sometimes the stands he takes makes him seem like a bit of a nutcase.

I actually admire Robinson as well because he is not afraid to speak his mind and does take some strong stands. Of course, taking strong stands means you are going to alienate the people who don't agree with you. That can be dangerous in politics.




I read where Spencer said that a homosexual becoming a heterosexual was like weightlifting; It's hard at first, but then you get used to it.

A couple of my friends said that some of their experiences could be described that way...

I wonder if it's the same for a heterosexual becoming a homosexual. I don't think all the practice and training in the world could make me change from preference. And I not planning to test that anytime soon.
Spencer is a fool.

[Tesserat]

When I wrote "A couple of my friends said that some of their experiences could be described that way... " I was actually commenting on the phrase "It's hard at first, but then you get used to it." As in, they got used to "it" being "hard"

Oh never mind. I gotta start using smilies...

[Kilted_Canuck]

Yeah, they had on the local news Larry Spencer's arrival at the Regina Airport the day after his remark got out. It consisted of a number of people from his riding renouncing their votes for him (or something like that) and people telling him off.

I can't say I blame them...

Meh, Glad he's not my MP (though its not like I'll be able to make a difference anyway in the next fed. election....probably will take place 4 months before I can vote):mad:

[Segnosaur]

Seems like the Alliance isn't the only party having problems with Gay weddings:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1070070882271_65480082/?hub=Canada


A Liberal cabinet member from Alberta has told a journalist that he's worried that gay marriage could lead to those in incestous and polygamous relationships also being allowed to marry.


Now, the cabinet minister in question claims he wasn't against homosexuality, just that the legalization of gay marrige would require legalizing things like polygamous relationships, because of equality provisions. However, this same cabinet minister purposefully ducked out of a vote on same-sex marriges earlier this year. (Nice to see him take a stand, isn't it?)

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by sorgoth
In my humble opinion, the Liberals (And Chretien) have done a very good job. Increased social freedoms, made a lot of scholarship/charity funds AND lowered the national debt.

You might think that, but you'd be quite wrong...

On social freedoms: Yes, it looks like they may liberalize some drugs, and Gay weddings. Big deal. (Notice that the Liberals never actually fought for these things. They did the cowardly thing and simply let the courts decide. They did not allow any debate to occur at a time when Canadians could actually give their input.)

But lets look at their whole record on freedoms:

- They have actively fought against freedom and for censorship, in the Little Sister's book store case

- They have done nothing to help English Language rights in Quebec. (They do push French language rights in all other provinces, but the french language has never been subject to the same restrictions as English was in bill 101.)

- The Liberals have been very restrictive about cotrolling members of their own party. No dissent is allowed. Sorry, but if you vote for a particular person as M.P., you should expect them to represent YOU, not simply applaud anything that Cretien does.

- Gun control. Ok, I'm not a 'gun nut'... I don't have a fire arm, nor do I want one. However, I do recognize that the freedom to own a fire arm is one that many people enjoy. That is being curtailed. (Let me put it this way, more Canadians are going to be affected by gun control legislation than will be affected by gay weddings.)

How about charity? Well, lets see... Yes, they've set up scholarships, but they've also cut transfer payments to provinces, which ultimately means that some provinces would have to increase tuition fees. Plus, other types of 'charity' (such as foreign aid) haven't really increased that much.

How about the national debt? Yes, there is a surplus now, but keep a few things in mind:

- Most cost-cutting measures have involved taking money out of health care, defence and provincial transfers. I believe spending by the federal government itself has actually increased. (Its a case of do-as-i-say, not as I do). Its been the provinces which have had to suffer though Liberal efforts to cut the budget.

- The Liberals got lucky to get into power at a time when interest rates were incredibly low (reducing debt payments) and the economy was hot (increasing tax revenues)

- The Liberals also got lucky that there were several conservative governments (particular in Ontario and Alberta) who were able to cut taxes and stimulate their economies

- Much of the credit can go to the previous conservative government, who did several things to help, including: increased taxes (I don't agree with higher taxes, but many of their tax increases came about near the end of their mandate, which benefited the Liberals attempts to balance the budget), and Free trade (which the Liberals originally said they'd cancel, but didn't), which lead to an improved economy