Telekynesis and others , physically speaking

[Oriax]

My greetings to you all, this is my first post, so please be gentle.:)

Not that I'm a believer, but I wanted to discuss something with you skepticals and believers alike.

Knowing that all matter is composed by particles, wouldn't it seem possible that if a body could exude some sort of energy, not as our bodies already do, but in a controlled fashion, that energy could be channeled as to affect other particles and other bodies so as to make them move or burn or whatever type of "mind power" fits your fancy?

I am aware that we can't quite control our own expelled energy, being most of it in the form of heat. But we also have, if I'm not mistaken, an electromagnetic field surrounding our bodies. Many people believe that they can see it and call it an aura, others "prove" it with machinery (I cannot know if any of that is true). If indeed it is true, couldn't that energy be manipulated by one's own mind?

Monks and sherpas and whatnot are often "seen" doing some seemingly supernatural things in which I believe can represent some greater degree of attunement to their own bodies. I wished to discuss or at least to see some opinions in which of these, if any are true.

[Jackalgirl]

My greetings to you all, this is my first post, so please be gentle.:)

Not that I'm a believer, but I wanted to discuss something with you skepticals and believers alike.

Knowing that all matter is composed by particles, wouldn't it seem possible that if a body could exude some sort of energy, not as our bodies already do, but in a controlled fashion, that energy could be channeled as to affect other particles and other bodies so as to make them move or burn or whatever type of "mind power" fits your fancy?

I am aware that we can't quite control our own expelled energy, being most of it in the form of heat. But we also have, if I'm not mistaken, an electromagnetic field surrounding our bodies. Many people believe that they can see it and call it an aura, others "prove" it with machinery (I cannot know if any of that is true). If indeed it is true, couldn't that energy be manipulated by one's own mind?

Monks and sherpas and whatnot are often "seen" doing some seemingly supernatural things in which I believe can represent some greater degree of attunement to their own bodies. I wished to discuss or at least to see some opinions in which of these, if any are true.

Sure. All of these things could be possible. However, if they are, in fact, capable of having a measurable effect on the world, then they should be measurable. If you, for example, can manipulate energy and have an effect (for example, to move a bowling ball without touching it or utilizing any mundane form of energy transmission), then you should be able to demonstrate it in such a way that the mundane explanations are ruled out.

You've thrown out a bunch of very vague and hazy references to folk lore about paranormal stuff, and I'm afraid that if you want to have a substantive discussion here, you probably are going to need to get specific. Pick one particular ability that you think has the possibility of being an actual effect, then let's discuss that one thing. We can cover possible mundane explanations as well as ways to sort through evidence and examine its credibility, as well as ways to design tests to rule out mundane explanations.

One other question: do you, yourself, believe that you have a paranormal ability (and is this thread, in fact, a lead up to an announcement that you are somehow endowed with a superpower)?

[Starthinker]

I'd give a million dollars if I could see someone move a bowling ball with telekenisis.

[quarky]

I can move blood to my lower chakra with thought. I could move a ping pong ball with the swelling of the unclean organ, but not a bowling ball. This should be worth $10, but not sure if I could do it in a controlled experiment with observers.

[Oriax]

Sorry for the late reply.

No, I do not believe I have any "special" abilities. I just like to think they could be possible.

For instance, telekinesis (can't seem to find the right way to write this), or better yet, pyrokinesis. Knowing that the body exudes heat, couldn't that heat be concentrated in a way as to affect other bodies to the point where they combust?

My references to, as you call it, folklore, are only made because there is no hard evidence to back any of it up and still some of the "mind abilities" seem possible (in a way), but maybe not in the current evolution of the human race.

I am sorry if I seem chaotic, but I have waited to discuss so many things for so long, I can't help but blurt it all out in a mess of words.

The thing is, I cannot believe in "mind powers" without evidence, but I cannot disregard the fact that the world might have some occurrences that cannot be explained by usual means, hence why I came to this forum, I felt like there could be more people like me around here.

And yes moving a bowling ball with your mind would be awesome. :D

But yes, let's start with telekinesis, do you feel it's something so impossible that none should believe it?
Many claim they are able to manipulate energies within their bodies, why not manipulating energy adjacent to the body?
What differs from within to without (energy-wise).
There are millions (and I'm probably not exaggerating) of videos, where people claiming to have that specific power are shown "moving" little paper thingies or maybe something heavier, and apart from the videos being very suspicious, and most, I believe, very fake, but still, why is that impossible?

(EDIT: ) And yes, this could be the result of wishful thinking, of wishing the world to have even more to it than it already has, hope you don't think less of me for it :D

On another note, I do know someone who claims to be able to move that same paper thingy with her mind, I will check it out and let you know.

[Ashles]

Sorry for the late reply.

No, I do not believe I have any "special" abilities. I just like to think they could be possible.

For instance, telekinesis (can't seem to find the right way to write this), or better yet, pyrokinesis. Knowing that the body exudes heat, couldn't that heat be concentrated in a way as to affect other bodies to the point where they combust?
But the problem is you are not addressing the question of how this would happen
This is not a small question. You are basically saying if the human body were set up differently to how it is now what migt it be capable of?

Well we don't know because it isn't.

There is no evidence that the human body can mentally focus heat, nor is there any mechanism by which it could theoretically do so.

So why is it a question even worth adressing?

My references to, as you call it, folklore, are only made because there is no hard evidence to back any of it up and still some of the "mind abilities" seem possible (in a way),
No they don't. Just because something emits heat, there is no logical reason to infer there is a mechanism that the heat can be focused.

but maybe not in the current evolution of the human race.
It sounds like you have been watching X-Men a bit too much.

Evolution doesn't work by trying to give us superpowers - it allows species tha are well suited to their environment to have a reproductive advantage. Which we currently are.

I am sorry if I seem chaotic, but I have waited to discuss so many things for so long, I can't help but blurt it all out in a mess of words.
That's fine, we'll all be here for as long as you need.

The thing is, I cannot believe in "mind powers" without evidence, but I cannot disregard the fact that the world might have some occurrences that cannot be explained by usual means, hence why I came to this forum, I felt like there could be more people like me around here.
This is a skeptical foum so most people here will believe there are perfectly mundane explanations for all these alleged occurrences.

And yes moving a bowling ball with your mind would be awesome. :D

But yes, let's start with telekinesis, do you feel it's something so impossible that none should believe it?
Why would smeone beleve something for which there is absoutely no evidence?
Think how easy it would be to demonstrate this even if someone had the ability even a tiny amount.

Many claim they are able to manipulate energies within their bodies, why not manipulating energy adjacent to the body? [\quote]
First you need to explain what you mean by 'energy'.
That is really important. It has very specific definitions. Energy is a much abused term used by people making very claims to sort of mean anything they want.

[quote]What differs from within to without (energy-wise).
There are millions (and I'm probably not exaggerating) of videos,
That is an exaggeration, without doubt.

where people claiming to have that specific power are shown "moving" little paper thingies or maybe something heavier, and apart from the videos being very suspicious, and most, I believe, very fake, but still, why is that impossible?
Because that is not how physics and human physiology is known to work.
That is why it is impossible.

Also the fact that not a single one of these people can do this in a controlled environment.

(EDIT: ) And yes, this could be the result of wishful thinking, of wishing the world to have even more to it than it already has, hope you don't think less of me for it :D

On another note, I do know someone who claims to be able to move that same paper thingy with her mind, I will check it out and let you know.
I absolutely guarantee she will not be able to do this with even the simplest controls applied. It is usully a form of blowing/breathing.

Ask her to do this with a few tiny polystyrene balls sprinked around the paper. Can she move just the paper without moving the balls?

[Oriax]

Will do, if I get the girl to do it for me.

Well, it might all be wishful thinking.

Yes it was an exaggeration, but for example, searching telekinesis on YouTube alone shows a little over 4000 different videos.

Well, I concede, for now, give me time to organize my ideas and I'll propose them to the forum again.

(EDIT)Conceding after trying to write something about energy and starting to sound too much like a jedi :)

[Aepervius]

Energy is a concept in physic which is abused over and over by woo and crackpot, I wish we could sick the police on them woo and put all woo on pilori for conceptual abuse, and put the poor energy kids in protective custody.

So let us examine what is heat energy or Heat in general. In all material molecules or atom vibrates. Those mode of vibration, or the kinetic energy associated with the considered entities (atom/molecules). The higher the vivbration mode, or the higher the average kinetic energy, the higher the temperature and heat energy. So how is this heat energy transmitted ? By convection, conduction, radiation. Radiation : infrared (and other) photon emitted by one material can be absorbed by the other. Convection/conduction is more or less neighbors entity colliding with each other, and thus transmitting heat energy.

Correct me if I am wrong naturally.

So for heat, how would you "remotely" transmit it and focus it ? Conduction and convection are obviously out of the picture. Because if you could conduct/convect it from your whole body to a small point of your body, this would destroye the local tissue (they don't like temp above 40° too much) and tehre is no known mechanism to do this at all in the body. Which leaves radiation. So you would build temp at a body part, then emite such photon from there. Problem : How do you focus such photon emission ? You can't this is omnidirectional. And there are no organ equivalent to infrared diode.

If you think about it , it quickly fall apart. You would have to suppose some unkown entity and if you start doing that, it is science fiction or comic book.

Telekinesy is even WORSE off. There are no known mediator for an action / reaction over such distance, which would not involve either magnetic force and/or electric force. There is absolutely nothing in the human body, which would be able to generate such fields and even then you would be literally grilling your own adjacent tissue. Again you would have to make something up.

And if you start making stuff up, then I would rather make myself an immortal god-dragon travelling the planescape, rather than a simple mortal human being able to move a bowling ball at a few meter distance.

[Pup]

Well, it might all be wishful thinking.

Take away the wishful thinking. Imagine it's something that you have no interest in believing is true, like, I dunno, that gods on top of Mount Olympus cause lightning storms.

If you didn't wish it were true, would the evidence seem as convincing?

[roger]

Oriax, given that the world is filled with an atmosphere, and that you can push against that atmosphere with limbs, and we have limbs, isn't it possible that we can fly with our arms? I mean, it's all physical, all the necessary parts are there, etc.

do you get excited thinking that maybe somebody can fly by flapping their arms. Oh, not you, but maybe some monk in Tibet?

No, I suspect you don't, because it is so obvious we don't have the muscle structure, the lift capacity, etc, to fly, despite it all being physically feasible - if we had those things.

So, why get excited about telekinesis? Sure, if we had the control of the electormagnetic spectrum we could do some cool stuff, but we just don't have anything in our bodies to control that sort of thing.

You want evidence? How about several thousand years of recorded history with no proof? How about state of the art medicine? Tens of thousands of MRI scans, autopsies, surgeries every day, none finding some hithero unknown structure. Millions of mechanics, factory workers, etc, working around small shavings of metal, nuts, bolts, etc, and not once, ever, do they go flying off the shelf to stick on the person, or get repulsed. No evidence. None. Nada.

then, of course, Randi has a $1M dollar prize for anyone who can do this. No one has stepped forward, except for a few who thought they could fool him by blowing things with their breath.


So is it physically possible, theoretically? Sure. Are you ever going to see it on this planet? Everything we know says no.