Reactions to failing MDC preliminaries?

[Elizabeth I]

I did a search on this and didn't find a thread on the topic, so I apologize in advance if the question has already been asked and I just overlooked it.

How do those who do not pass the preliminary testing react to the experience? Do they insist their talent still exists and the test was somehow flawed? Do they accept the evidence of the testing?

I realize that we are talking about individuals, so reactions will not all be the same, but I'm curious if there is a predominant response.

Thanks!

[Almo]

Dowsers generally maintain they can do what they say they can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpcFl23dmcQ

Check this and its subsequent parts. I'll never forget that Randi asks if they think the test is fair. They say yes. He asks what they'll do if they fail. They say they'll know dowsing doesn't work. They fail. They make excuses.

That's what I remember anyway. :)

[BTMO]

Dowsers generally maintain they can do what they say they can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpcFl23dmcQ

Check this and its subsequent parts. I'll never forget that Randi asks if they think the test is fair. They say yes. He asks what they'll do if they fail. They say they'll know dowsing doesn't work. They fail. They make excuses.

That's what I remember anyway. :)

Wow - I remember watching that programme when I was a kid!

Thanks for posting it!

:D

[rjh01]

I think most other people just fade away back to where they come from. I would love to find out. A few carry on earning money using the talents they do not have.

[petre]

Most don't react much at all. Confirmation bias requires you to ignore your misses.
</snark>

[William Smith]

...
How do those who do not pass the preliminary testing react to the experience? Do they insist their talent still exists and the test was somehow flawed? Do they accept the evidence of the testing?

I realize that we are talking about individuals, so reactions will not all be the same, but I'm curious if there is a predominant response.

Thanks!

Predominant response, paraphrased: "I know I have this ability."

Mike Guska.
Achau Nguyen.
Patricia Putt.
Angela Patel.
The dowsers in the video "JR in Australia".
Many more.

Conclusion: A believer needs his belief to be true.

[SumDood]

I have an friend from college who works as a psychic and claims that she and an associate both beat the challenge and that the Jref balked. She says its a funny story, but i haven't heard it yet. Seems like a common ploy.

[BTMO]

I have an friend from college who works as a psychic and claims that she and an associate both beat the challenge and that the Jref balked. She says its a funny story, but i haven't heard it yet. Seems like a common ploy.

Given that there is a long list of applicants challenge histories, with the person's name recorded, under the $1 Million Paranormal Challenge applicants log, it should be fairly easy to track down that story...

[SumDood]

Given that there is a long list of applicants challenge histories, with the person's name recorded, under the $1 Million Paranormal Challenge applicants log, it should be fairly easy to track down that story...

My guess would be that she never actually applied so when her name is not found on any JREF list she can further call shananagans on the Foundation.

[William Smith]

My guess would be that she never actually applied so when her name is not found on any JREF list she can further call shananagans on the Foundation.

Even simpler, she could simply do what she claimed to be able to do.

[Czarcasm]

I have an friend from college who works as a psychic and claims that she and an associate both beat the challenge and that the Jref balked. She says its a funny story, but i haven't heard it yet. Seems like a common ploy.I'm curious-how big a lie does a friend have to tell before one can call that "friend" a liar?

[BTMO]

I'm curious-how big a lie does a friend have to tell before one can call that "friend" a liar?

In my case, not very.

I don't have much tolerance for lies...

[SumDood]

By friend i mean girl i hung out with in college 15 years ago who for some reason i happen to be face book friends with.

And now she's backtracking and saying that she didn't actually beat the challenge, but her associate did.

[William Smith]

...
And now she's backtracking and saying that she didn't actually beat the challenge, but her associate did.

Well, who is this associate and what did s/he do to beat the MDC?

[Almo]

By friend i mean girl i hung out with in college 15 years ago who for some reason i happen to be face book friends with.

And now she's backtracking and saying that she didn't actually beat the challenge, but her associate did.

And when you find the associate, they will backtrack. ;) In any case, welcome to the forum. You can check out any time you like... but you can never leave. :hypnodisk

[wackyvorlon]

It's like a lot of things, it exists and is there, visible in the corner of your eye... But whenever you try to look directly at it, it disappears.

[IXP]

It's like a lot of things, it exists and is there, visible in the corner of your eye... But whenever you try to look directly at it, it disappears.
You have evidence of this, I assume.

IXP

[William Smith]

It's like a lot of things, it exists and is there, visible in the corner of your eye... But whenever you try to look directly at it, it disappears.

And why do you suppose that is?

[DevilsAdvocate]

Most don't react much at all.This seems the best answer. Most people that I have seen fail the challenge simply say they don't know what went wrong, and then go on their way. That's it. They don't immediately deny that they have the paranormal powers, but they do acknowledge that they failed a fair test.

We don’t have much documentation on what happens after that. Some eventually give up their paranormal beliefs and become skeptics. Some abandon their particular paranormal belief. Some adopt new paranormal beliefs. Some stick with their paranormal belief and choose to forget about their failed challenge.

Whatever the end result, the immediate reaction is usually not much of a reaction. For paranormals, failure is always an option. :)

[wackyvorlon]

And why do you suppose that is?

That, of course, is the point. It never was there. It was an artifact of flawed perception.

[rjh01]

I googled some name from old applications. The top result for most of them were the threads here about them. The other results were for other people.

One exception ERIK BOSTROM, Canadian Malcontent (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=34340) Found these sites http://erikbostromcanadianmalcontent.com/blog.html
http://www.erikbostromcanadianmalcontent.com/

[BTMO]

I googled some name from old applications. The top result for most of them were the threads here about them. The other results were for other people.

One exception ERIK BOSTROM, Canadian Malcontent (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=34340) Found these sites http://erikbostromcanadianmalcontent.com/blog.html
http://www.erikbostromcanadianmalcontent.com/

I am having a real WTF? moment after reading that...

[Darat]

Dowsers generally maintain they can do what they say they can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpcFl23dmcQ

Check this and its subsequent parts. I'll never forget that Randi asks if they think the test is fair. They say yes. He asks what they'll do if they fail. They say they'll know dowsing doesn't work. They fail. They make excuses.

That's what I remember anyway. :)

Their claims are here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ngwL8GFIQ&feature=related - about 5 minutes in.

[TheDoLittle]

I googled some name from old applications. The top result for most of them were the threads here about them. The other results were for other people.

One exception ERIK BOSTROM, Canadian Malcontent (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=34340) Found these sites http://erikbostromcanadianmalcontent.com/blog.html
http://www.erikbostromcanadianmalcontent.com/

Oh, I remember reading his application. It was the first one that really gave me goosebumps.

Also, While I don't actively encourage pharyngulating an online poll from someone who obviously has mental problems, "Is Canadian Malcontent's protocol adequate to meet the JREF Million Dollar Challenge?"

[bryan]

The trend that I am starting to see is the "The million dollar challenge is a fake" or "I have applied and they know I win so they will not let me apply."

I guess that it shows people will do quite a bit to stay away from testing of the "paranormal abilities" that they have.

[pakeha]

I googled some name from old applications. The top result for most of them were the threads here about them. The other results were for other people.

One exception ERIK BOSTROM, Canadian Malcontent (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=34340) Found these sites http://erikbostromcanadianmalcontent.com/blog.html
http://www.erikbostromcanadianmalcontent.com/

I've been reading threads related to failed claimants to get an idea of whether the most recent failed claimant's reactions represent an average situation.
I've seen some astonishing reactions so far, but this particular one stands out.
I'm amazed at JREF's courtesy and forbearance in dealing with these people.

[Almo]

I'm amazed at JREF's courtesy and forbearance in dealing with these people.

Agreed. The JREF really does do a good job on that front.

[VisionFromFeeling]

It's like a lot of things, it exists and is there, visible in the corner of your eye... But whenever you try to look directly at it, it disappears.Just like the wave aspects of small particles, they collapse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave%E2%80%93particle_duality) into particles when you look at them. ;)

[VisionFromFeeling]

I googled some name from old applications. The top result for most of them were the threads here about them. The other results were for other people.

One exception ERIK BOSTROM, Canadian Malcontent (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=34340)
http://www.erikbostromcanadianmalcontent.com/*big sigh* Why are all these JREF MDC applicants making such a big fuss about how the JREF would be cheating... Why can't they just take the damn test with someone else and pass? They are after the million dollars, that's what it is. *sigh!*

The best way, or the only way, to prove that the JREF MDC would be a fake, is if after failing the MDC or if failing to comply to scientific test standards with the JREF, to agree to a scientific standard test and pass it with someone else. But they won't do that. Because there is no big carrot. And it's all about the carrot to them. Not about being excited about possibly having a special talent of great scientific interest. Because there is no talent. There is only the carrot. And they can't have it. Because there is no talent.

[Locknar]

Several off-topic posts have been moved to AAH - don't let this happen to you...posts must address the OP.

[pakeha]

I Googled Derek Ogilvie just now and apart from BadPsychics three part analysis of his cold readings (2008) I found his website (down for facelift, whatever), with the dates for September 2009 shows displayed and contact details apparently through his manager.
A very plausible person.